Vol. 505 No. 7
2 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting on 26 May 1999 with representatives from Northern Ireland justice groups on the setting up of investigations into human rights abuses; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14425/99]
I met with representatives of the Committee for the Administration of Justice and a representative of British-Irish Rights Watch last Wednesday. We discussed a number of issues and concerns that the groups had, particularly about the investigations that are taking place into the murders of Patrick Finucane and Rosemary Nelson and further issues about having public inquiries into these cases. I undertook to raise a number of their concerns with the Prime Minister and through the secretariat in Belfast.
I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. Is he aware that since we last discussed a truth commission during Taoiseach's Question Time considerable interest has been expressed to me in the establishment of such a commission? Pending the functioning of the Executive, have common terms of reference been drawn up or any preparatory work been either considered or agreed regarding how such a commission might function? Does he agree it is necessary to be extremely careful in ensuring a level playing pitch is created in terms of how past atrocities are dealt with? With the traumatic exhuming of the remains of the disappeared, will he agree that for the killers of Mrs. Jean McConville, for instance, to be granted immunity and left unnamed is inconsistent with the hue and cry for names and prosecution of British Army killers in the North? Will he agree there is a need to put in place terms of reference for a truth commission so that we are consistent and ensure that the peace process does not break down because different standards are being applied to different atrocities?
That is a very important point because we could have inquiries for certain cases and not for others. It is a point which has been put to me by many groups from Northern Ireland because at times they hear calls from one section of the community and that is a matter for concern.
Since Mr. de Klerk attended the Peace and Reconciliation Forum in Dublin Castle there have been many discussions about a truth commission, but it has never received much of a hearing from any of the groups. I have raised this on a number of occasions. I even raised it recently with some of the groups since we were talking about it here, and that is still the position. Having said that, we must be careful about the standards and the way cases are processed because it is an issue which has the potential to create great hardship and suffering for people and groups.
I understand the Taoiseach as saying that there has not been a ground swell initiative from the North in support of a truth commission but, in the light of his discussions with Mr. de Klerk and others who speak from experience, is the Taoiseach of the view that greater attention ought to be given to the establishment of such a commission in the North? Will he take initiatives to disseminate the information available from Mr. de Klerk, for instance, and ensure that there is a thorough examination of the possibilities of such a commission in current circumstances?
It is not so much that this has not been looked at, it is just that there has been a very negative response to it. On the other side of the argument, there has been an energetic campaign by people such as those to whom the question refers, the Committee for the Administration of Justice, Amnesty International, the British-Irish Rights Watch and other groups within Northern Ireland which have made cases for particular aspects to be looked at. There is the further inquiry into Bloody Sunday, the campaign for an inquiry into the Dublin-Monaghan bombings and the Campaign for the Forgotten. There is the Mrs. Rosemary Nelson case, the Finucane case and many other cases which I have raised at the secretariat or have been considered by the British Government. There are also cases against people who are alive who have been threatened in one form or other by people on either side of the divide. It is hard to bring them altogether. As Mr. de Klerk told us at that time and as he outlined in documents which he sent to us subsequently, that is, a few years ago, the concept would fail unless people wanted it and were prepared and willing to accept it.
As Deputy Sargent will be aware, the big difficulty about all of these inquiries and investigations is the endless arguments about the terms on which people participate in them. All the difficulties at present about Mrs. Rosemary Nelson's case, whether people will co-operate, the basis of co-operation, to whom they are talking and the method of administration relate to only one or two cases. If those difficulties extended to other cases, of which I am aware but which I do not wish to put on the record, it would become a nightmare. However, I agree with the Deputy's basic point. We must be careful about consistency in this because solving the problem for one group, category or atrocity has exactly the opposite effect on another. I am very conscious of that.
Recognising the fact which is believed by everybody in this House, that one of the cruelest forms of injustice currently being perpetrated is the denial of the bodies of murdered people to the victims' families—
I draw the Deputy's attention to the fact that there will be statements on the disappeared after Question Time and we should not anticipate them.
As the second preamble to my question was "and recognising that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will shortly make a statement on the fact", is it the Taoiseach's opinion, as Head of Government, that there has been full co-operation by the IRA with the commission established by an Act of the Oireachtas and an Act of the British Parliament? Could the IRA be more fulsome in its support of the work of the commission? Would it be helpful if all sides in this House made a statement calling for full co-operation by the IRA with the work of the commission to alleviate the terrible suffering of the families concerned?
Under collective responsibility, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform represents the Government.
I am asking the question of the Taoiseach as Head of Government.
Under the collective responsibility, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will be in the House to make a statement on this matter in a little over an hour.
There is a strong feeling on all sides of the House on this matter.
That is why there will be statements today.
There will be no questions on the matter.
That is why it was allowed to be raised briefly on the Order of Business.
It would be helpful in addressing an issue of national concern for the Taoiseach, as Head of Government, to be allowed a brief comment on the matter. He is anxious to do so.
There is collective responsibility. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will be answering on behalf of the Government.
He will not be answering questions.
He will be making a statement. Does the Taoiseach wish to comment?
I will make a brief comment. I will not break your ruling on the substantive question because the Minister will make a statement. All our thoughts are with those who have lost loved ones. This must be a harrowing time for them. They have suffered a terrible injustice over the years in not knowing the fate of those who were murdered. At least now their suffering has been acknowledged. I welcome the fact that information has been passed on and searches have begun.
We had all hoped – certainly it was my information – that for the sake of the families this process would not be long and drawn out. I hope that the efforts of the Garda, on which I will not comment as the Minister will report on them later, will see early results. I certainly hope that if anyone, even someone who might be disassociated for a long time, has better information which would help in locating the remains of those who were killed they will provide that information as soon as possible because this House has given them immunity, as has Westminster. This is the call sought by Deputy Howlin which I make on behalf of the Government and the House. For the sake of the relatives, if for no other reason, they should do that.
