Vol. 509 No. 2
1 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the reason a person from his Department is serving as secretary to the national stadium steering committee; the length of time the secretary has devoted to this task; and the cost to his Department. [1745199]
As I informed the Deputy previously, the Government announced on 13 October last that it had agreed to commission a feasibility study for the development of a stadium for the new century, and appointed a stadium steering committee to oversee the process.
A consortium of consultants led by PricewaterhouseCoopers was appointed to conduct the feasibility study. I understand the study has just been completed and has been presented to the stadium steering committee. On receipt of the study from the steering committee, I intend to bring it at an early date to Government for consideration and decision.
The nature of this high-prestige initiative is such that it requires cross-departmental and cross-organisational co-ordination, and my Department is best suited to do that. There is a significant time commitment involved and the official who acts as secretary of the stadium steering committee has undertaken this task in addition to his normal duties. In addition to the administrative costs arising from the work of the stadium steering committee, the main cost to my Department will be that of the feasibility study, which, as I told the House previously, is £380,033.
Surely the Taoiseach does not need expensive consultants to tell him that if the FAI is going ahead with its 45,000-seater stadium in Tallaght, and if Croke Park is being developed independently by the GAA, there is only one sport left – rugby – that would avail of this proposed national stadium. Therefore, this proposal is not a runner.
The Government will await the report. The Deputy will recall that the Government initiated its report long in advance of the FAI issuing its proposal. Although I do not have all the facts yet, I understand that the feasibility study group also discussed this with about 30 other sporting organisations.
Is the feasibility study report based on the premise that the FAI will go ahead with its stadium and that the GAA will continue to use Croke Park separately? Or, is it based on the premise that somehow, by some most unlikely osmosis, Croke Park and the FAI stadium will cease to be relevant, and that they will all use this national stadium? Which is the assumption upon which £380,000 of taxpayers' money has been paid to this consultant?
I had better place on the record the fact that it is not just a consultant. The Deputy would make it appear that one individual received £380,000. A team led by PricewaterhouseCoopers handled the financial and procurement aspects of the project. Mr. Michael McGreal, a partner in PricewaterhouseCoopers, was the project director.
I am not interested in that.
Their sports group in Tampa, USA, provided the specialist expertise in the area. The other members of the consortium are: Indicom, international economic consultants, the project management team; Devine Deflon Jaeger architects, USA; Scott Tallon Walker, architects, Dublin; Thorburn Colquhoun, engineers, Dublin; McKeogh McCollum, quantity surveyors, Dublin; and ETZ Sherry Fitzgerald, estate agents. At the outset, in their work, they would have assumed that both the FAI and rugby authorities would both certainly use the stadium, and that there would be some limited use by the GAA. Of course, last January the FAI stated that it intended building a 40,000-seat stadium of its own. I am sure it has taken the various alternatives into account in its assumptions, but we will wait to see the report.
Surely the Government does not need a gaggle of men in suits, all being paid extremely well, to tell it what anyone on the terraces knows – that this project will not go ahead as a genuinely national stadium without either the soccer authorities or the GAA participating.
I will wait to see what the feasibility study says. It is the first time we have actually carried out a feasibility study on the desirability of a national stadium, which has been an aspiration of all sporting bodies. We should not consider sport to be about only three codes. It is not just rugby, soccer and Gaelic games. We have a big number of sporting bodies who do excellent work. They may not be as big or financially strong as the others I mentioned, but they do need sophisticated facilities which are not currently provided. It is to be hoped, such facilities will be available, eventually.
It is hardly likely that there will be 80,000 people at a tennis match.
Will the Taoiseach confirm that the initiative to undertake this study was – in part and according to reports – influenced by an offer of approximately £50 million each from two well-known business people? If that was the case, were any conditions attached to that offer? Were there any tax considerations, tax write-offs, or changes in tax legislation associated with that offer of – if the reports in the newspapers are correct – approximately £50 million each from the two people who were mentioned?
As the Deputy is aware, the concept of looking at a national stadium is one that has been around for decades, and certainly since 1988. One individual has stated that he would give the State a sum of money. A figure of the order of what the Deputy said would be about what was stated. The only condition laid down – because they did not want any hand, act, part or involvement – was that it should be a state-of-the-art stadium for the new millennium.
There was no other condition?
No other condition, or no other condition requested.
Had the Taoiseach considered talking to the GAA realistically about the multi-functional use of Croke Park – taking into consideration the right of the GAA to say no – before he invested almost £400,000 in a feasibility study which is going nowhere? The Taoiseach must admit he set up the study, knowing the FAI was on the point of announcing a stadium. Is the Taoiseach aware that if the GAA and the FAI proceed, we will have a £200 million white elephant in Abbotstown?
We will await the report. I did not know the FAI was going ahead with a stadium until I received a call on a mobile phone – when I was in Jerusalem – from a PR company acting on behalf of the FAI. Perhaps the Deputy was aware of that information but I was not until I received the phone call.
The Minister should have been aware.
I knew of their plans five, seven or ten years ago, but the Deputy and I know that those plans never came to anything. I wish them well if these plans do. Therefore, I did not know that. I do know the views of the GAA. I also know the site limitations in Croke Park as regards its capacity for accommodating a genuine national stadium – and so does the GAA. Those views were expressed very clearly to me in 1994 when, as Minister for Finance, I gave the association £5 million and, subsequently, when we gave them money for the remainder of the stadium.
Since the Taoiseach mentioned the limitation of uses, what are the limitations in Croke Park? The only limitation I am aware of is the ability to put an athletics track around it because of its dimensions. I do not know of any other limitations.
I will enlighten the Deputy. Croke Park had no space for parking or any additional facilities. Neither can the GAA consider medical science, research and indoor training – issues that all sporting bodies have been pursuing for the past ten years – because the association has no more space there.
Is the Taoiseach aware that earlier in the year, around July, the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, indicated that the Government was prepared to plough nearly £11 million of taxpayers' money into soccer if the FAI did not proceed with its stadium project, with a view to bringing the FAI along with the national stadium proposal. Will the Taoiseach accept that bringing the FAI along with the Government's proposal could be seen as a bribe or a threat? Will he comment on that?
That is a matter for the Minister with responsibility for sport. I know – because I played—
So did I.
—and played at a competitive level for a League of Ireland club that is now defunct – that practically all grounds are badly strapped for cash. Practically all League of Ireland grounds are facing major difficulties. In recent years the Minister has provided funding for St. Patrick's Athletic, Cork City, Galway United, Shelbourne and Bohemians. Lottery money has been used to assist all those clubs. I am sure Deputy Allen, when he was Minister, helped most of the rest of the clubs.
In the context of the indication given, will the Taoiseach accept that money would be provided on the basis of the FAI not proceeding with its proposal and that going along with the Government's proposal constitutes a threat or a bribe?
This is a matter for the Minister concerned. If the FAI goes ahead with building its stadium, it will find it difficult to secure the necessary resources for its clubs, which are badly strapped for cash.
If the Government decided not to go ahead with a national stadium, more resources would be available for the FAI and other sports to develop a regional and local sporting infrastructure. Surely the obvious answer is that such a decision would free up resources and would be preferable to building a white elephant.
If they are allocated. We must await publication of the report. It is unfortunate that Ireland is probably the only member state of the European Union that does not have a proper national stadium. The fact is we are pathetically serviced in terms of a national stadium.
Will the Taoiseach clarify a point because he did not reply fully to Deputy Ryan's question. There seems to be an inconsistency in Government policy on this matter. On the one hand – the Taoiseach has not denied this – the Minister with responsibility for sport offered £11 million to the FAI on the condition that it would not proceed with its national stadium project, yet the Government, of which he is a Minister, gave £25 million to the GAA without any condition. Is that a correct statement and, if so, will the Taoiseach comment on why the GAA was treated differently from the FAI?
Those are questions for the Minister with responsibility for sport. That is one of the ministries to which I would have liked to have been assigned, but it was not in place when I was looking for the job.
The Taoiseach could always make a swap.
Perhaps I could hold the two. The Deputy will have to ask the Minister with responsibility for sport the content of the discussions. He has continued to allocate a good deal of money to association football at senior level, not to mention at junior and schoolboy level, and I hope we continue to do that. A condition laid down in respect of Croke Park was that it would build a national GAA stadium for the sports of Cumann Lúthchleas Gael and it provides that. Croke Park is used for camogie, ladies football, hurling, football and handball. The GAA will spend the best part of £150 million and the State gave it £25 million. Two enormous contracts are currently under way, the completion of the Canal End and the demolition and rebuilding of the Hogan Stand.
What about Hill 16?
I hope that will remain. That is an enormous contribution by the GAA and it continues to develop its grounds on a regional basis. It probably has seven or eight grounds that can hold in excess of 50,000 people.
Has a value for money analysis been carried out on the Abbottstown project? How many major events does he expect will be held in the stadium on an annual basis?
I purposely have not looked at any of the drafts because they have been changed several times, but I understand all that information is provided in the report.
I thought the report was completed.
No, I do not have the report. I understand the final report is with the advisory group.
