Vol. 514 No. 2
10 Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources the assessment programme he is undertaking regarding the environmental impact of the proposed reclamation of lands in Dublin Bay; if he will invite expert submissions on particular environmental impacts where there is legitimate dispute regard ing conclusions of the port board's environmental impact study; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3582/00]
13 Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources if he will ensure no decision on the foreshore licence for the infill of Dublin Bay will be taken until after the planning application which he ordered is complete in order that he can appraise the broader issues of spatial strategy and regional strategy which cannot be encompassed in a planning application on a specific proposal to a particular planning authority. [3571/00]
42 Mr. Callely asked the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources if his attention has been drawn to the depth of feeling among the public in relation to Dublin Port Company's application for foreshore permission to reclaim 21 hectares; the position regarding the process of the application; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3584/00]
50 Mr. McDowell asked the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources when he will receive the report of the independent consultants commissioned by his Department on the environmental impact study prepared by the Dublin Port Company to have 21 hectares of the foreshore area in Dublin Bay reclaimed; when a final decision will be made on the proposal; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3642/00]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 10, 13, 42 and 50 together.
There is no application in my Department for a lease, licence or permission under the foreshore Acts for the infill of Dublin Bay. What is under consideration in my Department is the application by Dublin Port Company for permission to reclaim 21 hectares of the company's own foreshore in Dublin Port for port purposes and the accompanying environmental impact statement which were published for public comment. These documents and the public comments thereon are being examined by my Department which has engaged independent consultants to review the environmental impact statement as a first task. If this is found to be adequate, the submissions made and the company's responses to them with the company's proposals for the reclamation will be considered by the consultants and a report made to my Department. I understand the consultants' report will be ready within weeks. The Department will then assess the report and make recommendations to me. This process will take at least two months to complete.
If the environmental impact statement is found to be inadequate, the company will be required to publish a supplementary environmental impact statement for public comment or, if the shortcomings are deemed serious enough, publish a new environmental impact statement for public comment. In that event the timescale for a decision could be significantly longer than two months. Should I decide to grant the permission sought it would be conditional on planning permission being obtained for the reclamation before any reclamation commenced.
New statutory arrangements are clearly needed to provide for the integrated management of the coastal zone generally, including the greater Dublin Bay and adjoining land area which lies within the jurisdiction of a number of local authorities as well as the Dublin Port Company. I will lose no time in consulting my Government colleagues, particularly the Minister for the Environment and Local Government and the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, about the new statutory arrangements which should be put in place and to seek Government approval for new legislation to be introduced as soon as possible. Realistically however it will not be possible to bring forward such legislation until next year. It would not be reasonable to defer consideration of all major foreshore applications, including the one from Dublin Port, until a new legislative framework is in place. In the meantime I shall be pursuing actively with the Minister for the Environment and Local Government the question of filling the obvious gap in planning law which could allow a local authority to refuse to consider an application for planning permission for foreshore reclamation for specific purposes.
Is the Minister confirming that Dublin Corporation does not have the legal competence to consider a planning application for an area beyond the high water line, in other words, land which has not yet been reclaimed?
That matter has not been tested in law. What I am saying is that the Department should be fully aware of what is proposed for the reclaimed land if we agree to give the go-ahead.
Is the Minister saying that the process proposed builds on an area of law that is untested? It appears that prima facie Dublin Corporation cannot consider this application as it stands. Is the Minister proposing, therefore, to move forward with this process on what is a very dubious legal basis, namely, making the foreshore licence conditional on planning permission?
That is a matter of opinion. What I am stating is that I do not wish to issue a foreshore licence until I am absolutely satisfied with what is being proposed and that it is possible to receive planning permission for it. That is the sensible and proper approach to take and if the Deputy or anybody else wants to challenge the legality of this, that is their prerogative.
Will the Minister confirm that he will not make a decision on a foreshore licence application until the planning process has been completed; in other words, that he will not issue a foreshore licence that is conditional on something that could go very wrong legally?
What I said was that should I decide to grant the permission sought, it would be conditional on planning permission being obtained for the reclamation before any reclamation commenced.
The Minister said that may not be possible, that legally it is untested.
What I am saying is that I am satisfied that it is possible—
Is the Minister aware that Dublin Corporation is suggesting that this will require legal change and that it believes the Minister is initiating such change?
I have received no such communication from Dublin Corporation.
That is what it is telling councillors.
I am sure Dublin Corporation will let us know if that is the case.
The Minister's predecessor issued a statement just before he left office in which he effectively invited the port company to make an application and Dublin Corporation to make a decision before he made a determination on the foreshore licence application. Has the Minister received a response from the port company or Dublin Corporation?
I have been approached by the port company and agreed to meet its executives. The meeting was due to take place the day before yesterday but did not take place due to a misunderstanding on their part. I am available to discuss the matter further with them at their request but the decision stands.
Have they indicated that they are prepared to make such an application for planning permission and has Dublin Corporation indicated whether it is willing to entertain it?
I have agreed to meet them. I have had no communication from Dublin Corporation.
What is the likely timescale for the decision making process on the planning application and the application for a foreshore licence which has been the subject of various submissions? This matter has generated tremendous feeling among the public in respect of the loss of a great amenity to the people of north Dublin as a result of port activity.
I cannot be specific about time-scales. It is my job to grant the foreshore licence which is a separate issue to planning permission but if I decide to grant the licence, it will be conditional on the planning permission. I am aware of the public concern about this proposal which perhaps highlights the need for an overall strategic approach to this type of development. I will discuss that with the port authority and with my colleague, the Minister for the Environment and Local Government.
Until now, ports have been governed by the Foreshore Act, 1933 which was subsequently amended in 1996 and 1998. The former Minister wrote a letter on 26 January to Dublin Port officials and he changed portfolios on 28 January, leaving the current Minister holding a potential time bomb. How can planning permission be applied for in respect of a parcel of foreshore land which does not exist? The buck is being passed to the corporation. There was heat on the former Minister in that constituency and he came up with this marvellous mechanism of a very convoluted reply, issued by his secretary. In the past, ports were either awarded licences or they were not.
I do not see what the problem is.
The Minister would realise there was a problem if he studied the foreshore legislation.
I do not see what the problem is with Dublin Port proceeding with its planning proposal.
It cannot proceed if it does not have a foreshore.
I do not see why the port would have any difficulty with planning the infill of this 21 hectares—
That would require an amendment of the existing foreshore legislation.
The Minister will cause uproar in Clontarf.
Deputy Kenny should concentrate on County Mayo. The problem which Deputy Finucane is trying to create does not exist.
The Minister is missing a fundamental point.
The Minister, without interruption.
What is stopping Dublin Port outlining a plan of its proposal in regard to the infill, displaying that plan to me and to the corporation and subsequently outlining the proposed structures inherent in the plan? I do not understand what all the furore is about. My predecessor made a very ingenious decision, one which will provide everyone, not least members of the public, with a clear understanding of what is being proposed in this area.
It was certainly an ingenious response.
A typical response.
This is a very sensitive issue and we are determined to ensure that we proceed properly.
The former Minister was always afraid to make decisions on difficult issues.
There is no fear of that with this Minister.
Talk about Bull Island.
Members will appreciate the concern surrounding this issue which is of huge local importance. The port has carried out various feasibility studies etc. and even if it engages in the planning permission process, it can apply for a change of use. We must consider what the current process is in regard to the foreshore licence application. When is a decision likely to be made on that even if it will be conditional on planning permission or will that decision run parallel to the planning process? It is important that we would know the likely schedule. Is the Minister indicating that he may grant the licence, conditional on planning permission, regardless of the timeframe involved?
Yes, that is an accurate summation of the situation.
Seán Dublin Bay Loftus is watching the Minister.
Is the Minister saying that we will see a model of what Dublin Port intends to do, for which planning permission cannot be sought or obtained, and that he will grant a foreshore licence before any planning application is made which will allow the port to reclaim the land? Will we then be left with 52 acres of rubble in the middle of Dublin Bay and will Dublin Port then make the corporation choose between a derelict site or berths?
That is a total misunderstanding of what I said.
Perhaps the Minister will clarify matters for me because that sounded like what he said in response to a very clear question from Deputy Callely. In light of the Minister's comments about the need to consider wider strategic issues—
I remind the Deputy that only one minute is allowed for supplementary questions.
—would he agree that a much wider review is required than that which would be allowed through the process the Minister is suggesting? Has the Minister obtained legal advice either from the Attorney General or anyone else on the operability of his proposals?
For the third time, as I have already indicated to the House, should I decide to grant the permission sought, it would be conditional on planning permission being obtained for the reclamation before any reclamation commenced. I added, in reply to Deputy Finucane's question, that there is no reason we could not see the plans. The only confusion on this issue is on the Deputy's part. I have not sought any legal advice on this matter because it is not required.
The Minister stated earlier that he would want to be satisfied that permission would be granted. I do not see how that statement sits comfortably with his most recent reply.
Does the Minister agree that he is in a somewhat invidious situation in that as Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources he clearly has responsibility for commercial port activity but is also being asked to adjudicate on an application for a foreshore licence on environmental grounds, among others? Put another way, is the Minister not too close to the applicant to make a decision on this application?
There is undoubtedly a dilemma for me in that respect and that is why I must be very fair and balanced in my approach to this issue. I reiterate that the granting of the licence would be conditional on planning permission being obtained for the reclamation prior to the reclamation commencing.
New legislation is required to do that.
I stated that new statutory arrangements are clearly required to provide for the integrated management of the general coastal zone in the greater Dublin area. In the short-term, we are anxious to allow Dublin Port to proceed with its development and are prepared to go ahead with this procedure in order that this issue can be decided upon.
That is stacking the odds against those who hold a different view to the Minister. The port is to be allowed to proceed with the proposal even though the Minister has acknowledged that a proper legal basis is required for this type of development in the future.
The Deputy is making a statement.
We have stipulated that planning permission will be required and we are satisfied that that will give those who wish to object the right to do so.
Will the Minister indicate what stage the current application is at and when a decision is likely to be made on the foreshore licence application? Are we talking about two months?
We will have a new Minister by the time a decision is made.
I refer Deputy Callely to the detailed reply in regard to the timescale of EISs etc. in the earlier part of the question.
