Vol. 514 No. 4
10 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the discussions, if any, which have taken place on a cross-Border body for education which is one of the possible areas for North-South co-operation and implementation referred to in the Good Friday Agreement. [25318/99]
As the Deputy will be aware, and as was required by the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, the North-South Ministerial Council, meeting in transitional form on 1 December 1999, formally endorsed the political decision of 18 December 1998. This identified and agreed six areas for co-operation through the establishment of the new North-South implementation bodies and a further six areas for co-operation through the mechanism of existing bodies in each separate jurisdiction.
Education was not one of the six areas in which it was agreed that an implementation body would be established, but it was included in the "areas for co-operation" category.
At its inaugural plenary meeting in Armagh on 13 December 1999, the North-South Ministerial Council agreed that its meetings in sectoral format would focus initially on the work areas of the implementation bodies and the six areas for co-operation, which, as I have indicated, include education.
The first meeting of the council in the education sector took place at Dublin Castle on 3 February last. The Government was represented by the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Woods. The Northern delegation comprised the Minister for Education, Mr. Martin McGuinness and his colleague, the Minister in the office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister, Mr. Dermot Nesbitt.
The meeting was positive and productive. The Council examined proposals on how best to take forward its work and decided to establish a number of joint working groups on various matters, charging each group with delivering concrete progress. The Minister has arranged for a copy of the detailed communiqué to be sent to the Deputy.
It is envisaged that, as with other sectoral formats, meetings of the North-South Ministerial Council in the education sector will take place on a quarterly basis, subject of course to the institutions being re-established.
I tabled my question some time ago and, unfortunately, the peace process has been dealt a blow in the meantime. Will the Minister of State clarify what is the current status of the North-South Ministerial Council? Is it in limbo? Legally, it is in existence but is not functional. It would be helpful if he gave his view on that. Were any work programmes drawn up regarding co-operation in education? What areas is it intended to focus on, hopefully, in the near future?
The British legislation which entered into force as a result of an order by the Secretary of State applies only to the Executive and the Assembly and the operations of these institutions were suspended automatically. The North-South institutions ceased to exist.
Is the Minister of State saying that they no longer exist?
They have been suspended and, obviously, cannot proceed with their work until a resolution is achieved.
I accept that.
Obviously, they legally exist.
I do not wish to put the Minister in a corner on the issue. However, they exist but are not functional. It would be better if that position were maintained. Hopefully, they will become operational again in the near future. What work programme was outlined at the earlier meeting? What progress can be made in coming months?
A detailed work programme has not been worked out other than that which I described in my reply. Both Ministers explored possibilities for co-operation and it was a worthwhile meeting which clearly identified areas for future co-operation.
Will the Minister of State ask his officials when the council resumes whether they might compare, for example, participation in third level education between those living in inner city Dublin and inner city Derry and Belfast? Such a comparison would help because more resources are needed in this area. I would appreciate it if the Minister of State passed on this request to our representatives at the North-South Curriculum Council.
I will certainly pass on the Deputy's request. I do not know what the practical arrangements will be during what will, hopefully, be a short suspension.
Is it not a fact that officials from the Department of Education and Science met their opposite numbers in the past few weeks, agreed a research programme and identified between four and six areas of co-operation?
I do not have exact details of discussions between officials but I will ask the Minister for Education and Science to inform the Deputies.
11 Mr. Bell asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he has raised with the British Government or the political parties in Northern Ireland the position of those who have been forced out of Northern Ireland as a result of threats of death or violence; the estimate, if any, he has received of the number forced out in this way; the steps, if any, he will take to facilitate the return of those so exiled; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4305/00]
As has been indicated in reply to parliamentary questions on this issue on 29 September, 2 November and 2 December 1999, the plight of those who have been forced to leave their home areas as a result of paramilitary threats or intimidation is a cause of serious concern. The right to "freely choose one's place of residence" is recognised by the Good Friday Agreement. The right of those concerned to have the threats against them lifted and to return home is fully endorsed by the Government.
The Government, in its communications with parties with influence on paramilitary groups, has called on them to do everything possible to help resolve this unacceptable situation and continue to do so. In recent consultations with the British authorities, within the framework of the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference, it was again confirmed that no figures are maintained on the numbers of people forced to leave Northern Ireland nor is it feasible to collate such figures in the future. Given the nature of the problem, neither the groups involved in making the threats nor those who receive them are likely to make information on numbers available.
As previously pointed out, the Victims Commissioner, Mr. John Wilson, noted in his report that a number of those affected by paramilitary exiling reside in this jurisdiction, and the Government is currently examining measures aimed at alleviating their plight. I again strongly urge all those with influence in this area to help put a complete end to these odious threats against individuals who wish to return to their own homes.
I welcome the tone of the reply. "Serious concern" is a condition that is almost permanent in Iveagh House on many issues but I compliment the officials who have described what is taking place as "odious" and "unacceptable". It is incredible that the Minister of State said that it is not feasible to even estimate the number of people involved. That infor mation is available. There are three parts to my question. One part is the estimated number of those who are forced into exile and the second is the issue of facilitating their return. Given the Government's serious concern about practices that it finds unacceptable and odious, one would have thought it was not beyond its capacity to estimate the number of people involved and put it to us hypothetically and to prepare what precise steps it proposes to take in order to facilitate the return of people to their own communities.
Prisoners have been released and returned to their communities. Families and individuals have been driven out by the most cowardly, despicable practices, yet an estimate cannot be put on the numbers involved. Will the Minister of State make another attempt to seek such an estimate from the other side of the table at the talks?
Short of getting into a guessing game—
Why not?
If the Deputy wants a guestimate, I will talk to him later. Information on numbers is all but impossible to obtain and I am sure the Deputy will understand that. Given the nature of the problem the groups involved in making such threats or those who receive them are not likely to help to resolve it. We can only hope to get some idea of this problem when the threats are lifted and the individuals return. It is an impossible science to try to seriously estimate the numbers involved. Cases have been brought to the attention of the Department and the Government and efforts have been made to try to alleviate the plight of those involved as far as possible.
How could one arrive at a figure after people return if it was impossible to produce one while they were away?
Given that people will hopefully provide information when this issue is resolved, we may be able to be more accurate. I do not see the significance of the line of questioning. We are aware that people are being displaced.
Driven out.
We are aware that despicable practices are being adopted and we are doing everything we can to prevent them and alleviate the plight of the victims.
It is significant. These people are entitled to apply for Irish passports and some may even hold one. If it were happening in any other country, our ambassador would be directed to establish the numbers involved and to raise the issue. Do the Minister of State's briefing notes contain any estimates? Does he agree that this is more Stalinist than republican? The concept of expulsion derives from the Stalinist era and has nothing to do with republicanism. I hope that this heavy handed approach will be decommissioned in its own right. The Minister surely has some estimate of the numbers involved. I would expect that if this were happening in any other country, an estimate would be available.
I agree with the general content of the Deputy's remarks. I do not have any estimate in my briefing notes because the departmental officials do not have one. As I said, every effort is being made to put an end to the actions that are taking place. The Government has used every opportunity to encourage those who have an influence on such people to use it to put a stop to what is going on, and that will continue.
12 Mr. Callely asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the working relationship and level of trust in the relationship between all the participating political parties in the peace process; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4186/00]
62 Mr. Callely asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the forums and reports which have been considered on the issue of decommissioning; the likely developments and time schedule in the months ahead; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4185/00]
66 Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on progress in regard to the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. [4303/00]
73 Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on the outcome of his meeting in Dublin on 1 February 2000 with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Mr. Peter Mandelson. [4304/00]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 12, 62, 66 and 73 together.
This reply is the same as that to Priority Question No. 5.
The creation of the institutions in December was not only a major step forward in the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement, it also brought immediate and tangible benefits to the people of Northern Ireland and the island as a whole.
For the first time, an Executive in Northern Ireland, fully representative of both communities, has been taking decisions and implementing policy on behalf of people to whom it is directly accountable. The Assembly has been working well, debating issues, scrutinising the work of Ministers, and fulfilling its role as a legislative body. Through the North-South Ministerial Council, and building on the success of its inaugural meeting in Armagh on 13 December, Ministers from North and South have been carrying forward important work in their meetings in sectoral format, four of which have now taken place. The implementation bodies have made an impressive start to tackling their areas of responsibility. The British-Irish Council and the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference have identified and agreed key areas which will constitute their initial programmes of work.
Given this rapid and encouraging start, it is particularly disappointing and frustrating that the operation of the Assembly and the Executive has been suspended, and the IRA representative has withdrawn from engagement with the International Commission on Decommissioning.
I can assure the House that the Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs, together with their officials, did all in their power to avoid suspension. Following receipt of the progress report of the Commission on 31 January, they engaged in an intensive series of meetings and contacts with the British Government and with all of the relevant parties, beginning with the meeting in Dublin between the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland on 1 February.
As a result of those discussions, and in particular those between the Government and Sinn Féin, the international commission was able to make a positive and significant report to the two Governments on 11 February. As the House will be aware, however, the presentation of that report coincided with the suspension of the Executive and the Assembly.
This is undoubtedly a grave setback, but rather than spending valuable time seeking to apportion blame, we must continue to channel all of our energies into securing the earliest possible restoration of the operation of the institutions.
This afternoon the Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs are meeting Prime Minister Blair and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Peter Mandelson, in London, and they will both meet representatives of the SDLP, the UUP and Sinn Féin. On Monday, the Minister for Foreign Affairs had two meetings with the Secretary of State in Belfast in which they took stock of the present situation and agreed the necessity to move forward as quickly as possible. Since the start of the week, the Minister for Foreign Affairs has also met all of the pro-Agreement parties in the Assembly – Sinn Féin, the UUP, the Alliance Party, the Northern Ireland Women's Coalition, the Progressive Unionist Party and, together with the Taoiseach, the SDLP. In all of these meetings, the Minister has been struck by the clear determination on all sides to find a speedy resolution to our current difficulties.
That is the positive side. It is clear to me, however, that there is a continuing and large deficit of trust. All parties will need assurance that the Agreement, in all of its aspects, will be implemented in full.
As we work to secure progress, it is worth recalling the words of Senator Mitchell on publication of his final report in November when he stated that the one thing which is certain is that, without the institutions, there will be no decommissioning. That the IRA representative will not for now engage further with the Commission is deeply regrettable and disappointing. Senator Mitchell also observed that prolonging the stalemate will leave society in the North uncertain and vulnerable. That remains the case. The recent bomb in Irvinestown is a stark reminder that there are still those who would seek to bring the Agreement down and who stand ready to fill any political vacuum that we allow to develop.
We urgently need to bring the institutions back into operation – they are central to the Agreement – and the IRA must also re-engage with the international commission. The operation of the institutions has been an unqualified success. They make many things, including decommissioning, possible. I know all of the parties are genuine and sincere in their wish to make early progress, but they, with the Governments, must now redouble their efforts and stretch their respective constituencies to the maximum.
I take this opportunity to wish the Taoiseach well in his meetings today, and to extend good wishes to the new Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Cowen, in the difficult challenges he faces as he takes over at the Department of Foreign Affairs.
I note with interest the Minister of State's response to the question on the level of trust. He indicated that there is a deficit in the level of trust but that political advances have been made. We all recognise that economic, social and political advances have been made since the creation of the institutions and in their operation, and that a good working relationship existed. Will the Minister identify the area in which the deficit of trust that has created this breach exists, particularly as welcome advances have been made?
As events have moved so quickly, we all have our own opinion on where matters of trust have broken down. What we should do today is emphasise the positives, and very significant progress has been made. I had the pleasure of participating in one of the joint ministerial councils in Derry this day week and I was pleasantly surprised at the level of trust and the good will that existed among all the parties present for the inauguration of the commission on the Foyle, Carlingford and Irish Lights. All of the political parties in the Assembly were represented on that body and there was much good will and camaraderie among them. Everybody to whom I spoke was of the strong view that this was a great experience. We should now concentrate on stating the positives. The Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs are trying to deal with the negatives and the areas where there is a lack of trust so as to get the whole process back on-stream. All we can do is wish them well.
I join with others in wishing the talks well. I will leave it at that because I note the point being made, that at this stage we should all contribute as much as possible to a positive development in the talks.
I also want to wish the Taoiseach and the Minister well in their discussions but I want to make a statement, by way of asking a question, and I will leave it at that. The Minister quoted Senator George Mitchell in relation to decommissioning and the institutions. We had the institutions but we still did not have decommissioning. As somebody who joined a political party in 1969, when I was little more than a boy, and who has spent time with other Members of this House canvassing outside church gates and schools, running for election and all the drudgery we had to go through to get elected, and to stay elected, I resent people shooting their way to the table and then, when they get to the table, thinking they are some sort of heroes holding on to their guns. I do not want to go any further than that but the reality is that the Unionists, of whom I have been critical in the past, did jump and they were told if they jumped there would be a generous response. There was not a generous response.
It is not fair to reply to this House by quoting Senator George Mitchell to the effect that there would be no decommissioning when there were no institutions. There were institutions but there was no decommissioning, and one party is responsible for that.
I have to remind the Deputy that this is Question Time.
I ask the Minister to convey my best wishes to the Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs in these discussions, but let us be in no doubt about who is responsible for this breakdown. Is anybody capable of delivering the Provos? That is the question we will soon have to ask.
There is no point in blaming any side. Every side has worked hard to try to reach a conclusion but, unfortunately, it was not possible. They are now redoubling their efforts.
I regret the tone of Deputy Mitchell's comments. In recognition that there was real political progress made in the course of the peace process, is it the Government's intention to ensure there are inclusive discussions to put the process back on the rails and to ensure trust among the participating parties is retained?
The Taoiseach, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and officials in several Departments have been preoccupied in recent days and weeks with trying to find a solution. Their efforts have been made more urgent by the difficulties which arose yesterday. Every possible effort is being made to find a solution.
