Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 24 Feb 2000

Vol. 515 No. 2

Other Questions. - Abortion Referendum.

Ruairí Quinn

Question:

8 Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Health and Children if he will make a statement regarding abortion having regard to an interview in a newspaper (details supplied) on 22 January 2000; the plans, if any, the Government has to hold a referendum on this issue in the lifetime of this Dáil regardless of the recommendations of the All-Party Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution; if a commitment has been given to any Member of the Oireachtas that a referendum will be held in the lifetime of this Dáil; the type of proposition which will be put to the people; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2494/00]

Trevor Sargent

Question:

82 Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Health and Children his views on holding, nationally, a non-binding multi-option deBorda preferendum vote prior to any binding two option referendum if the Government decides to have another referendum on abortion. [4158/00]

Mr. Martin

Following its publication in September 1999, the Green Paper on Abortion was referred to the All-Party Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution for consideration. The question of whether there should be a further referendum and, if so, its nature, are matters which the committee is considering in the course of its work.

I understand that the deBorda Institute has made a number of submissions to the All-Party Oireachtas Committee. The institute promotes inclusive voting procedures and believes that the democratic process should facilitate the identification, from a broad range of options, of that policy proposal which has the highest average preference score of every vote. It sees the deBorda preferendum as the relevant voting procedure to achieve that. The institute has, among its submissions, made one that proposes a non-binding multi-option deBorda preferendum vote prior to any binding two option referendum, in the event of a referendum on abortion. The All-Party Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution will examine this in its consideration of the abortion issue. The Government will await the outcome of the committee's deliberations before further considering the issues discussed in the Green Paper.

I forgot to say I was taking the two questions together.

An Ceann Comhairle

The other Deputy is suspended from the service of the Dáil so it does not arise.

Ms McManus

I thank the Minister for his interesting dissertation on the deBorda Institute, but that is not what I asked.

Mr. Martin

Deputy Sargent asked about that, but he was suspended this morning

Ms McManus

I accept that. I was a little perplexed. Newspapers report the Taoiseach as saying there will be a referendum and I ask the Minister to address those reports. Has there been a commitment given to any Member to have a referendum within the lifetime of this Government? That is a very simple question. I ask the Minister to comment on the medical aspects of a now extensive practice within this country whereby on average 15 women travel to England every day for terminations. Does the Minister have a view on the extensive nature of abortion – Irish abortion, in effect? Is he taking the recommendations from research on crisis pregnancies, which were not published and which his predecessor was unwilling to publish, and is he going to work on a strategy that ensures there is a reduction in the numbers of Irish women having terminations? Will he also ensure that doctors are protected, given a clear statement from the Master of the Rotunda Hospital that terminations are being carried out here to save women's lives? Does he have a view on the protection of the professional practice of Irish doctors?

Mr. Martin

Absolutely. We are committed to protecting Irish doctors in terms of practices and to developing strategies in relation to crisis pregnancies, public education and so forth. Regarding the Government's commitment to resolve this issue within the lifetime of this Government, we endeavoured and were anxious to achieve consensus on the issue and we published a Green Paper following the work of the interdepartmental committee. That now rests with the all-party committee and the Taoiseach made it clear in his interview that that matter rests with that committee and that he did not want to proceed in advance of that committee's deliberations and conclusions. We are now awaiting the committee's work on that issue and we will proceed from then onwards.

Ms M. McGennis

The Minister addressed my point at the end of his reply. My question was whether he would agree that the 100,000 submissions made to the All-Party Committee on the Constitution deserved to be fully considered before a full decision was made. Those people made their submissions in good faith and it is their understanding – and that of the committee – that those submissions are taken into account before a decision is made on proceeding with a referendum or whether it is necessary to have a referendum in conjunction with legislative change. Deputy McManus is a member of that committee and I believe it is the understanding of the committee that that is the procedure which will be followed – that the committee will consider the submissions, make its recommendations and the issue will then be dealt with.

Mr. Martin

That is the position as I understand it. Approximately 105,000 submissions were made to the committee, an extraordinary number, and I understand they are close to finalising the analysis of that documentation. It is a matter for the committee to decide how soon it will progress the issues involved and in what timeframe it will operate. It is important and the Taoiseach made it clear in the article referred to by Deputy McManus that he was anxious to achieve consensus on the issue. There has been enough division on this issue going back 20 years and we are anxious to achieve consensus in the first instance.

Ms McManus

Is the Minister saying there is no commitment as yet to holding a referendum?

Mr. Martin

I am the Minister who will be responsible once the committee concludes its work and I will be bringing proposals following the completion of the committee's work in terms of the exact nature of what emerges.

Ms McManus

So there is no commitment.

Mr. Martin

It could be a referendum or a referendum combined with legislation or it may be a third option which is neither.

Ms McManus

No commitment.

Mr. Martin

With respect, the Taoiseach made it clear in that article and on the record that in his opinion there should at some stage of this process be consultation with the people in relation to it. However, we are going to wait. I have communicated to Deputies today that our approach is that the committee discusses this matter first, comes up with its conclusions and then refers its report to Government. I am the Minister who will have the responsibility to make proposals to Government on the issue.

Mr. Shatter

Will the Minister indicate whether, when he gets the committee's report, he intends to receive further representations from another 105,000 people before making a decision? Does he know when the committee will interview each of the 105,000 people from whom they have received observations and comments? Has he informed absent friends – Deputies Blaney, Fox and Gildea – that the Government has not yet made a decision on whether it will or will not hold a referendum?

Mr. Martin

It is not for me to say what the committee will do or whether it will interview the—

Ms McManus

We are not asking about the committee.

Mr. Martin

Deputy Shatter asked me about it.

Mr. Shatter

The Minister might have the inside track.

Mr. Martin

It is important to keep a dividing line between the all-party Oireachtas committee and the Executive—

Mr. Shatter

It is what is known as a political prophylactic.

Mr. Martin

I have had consultations with the three Deputies. They made clear their views on the matter and I said how I intend to proceed, which is to await the outcome of the committee's work.

Mr. Shatter

They seem to be in a state of perpetual confusion.

An Ceann Comhairle

We must move on to the next question. The rules of the House demand that we proceed to the next question.