Vol. 517 No. 2
8 Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Finance the process through which his Department will select locations for decentralisation; if towns where the IDA has failed to attract industry will receive preferential treatment; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9328/00]
18 Mr. B. Smith asked the Minister for Finance if he will consider County Cavan as a location for decentralisation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9195/00]
50 Ms McManus asked the Minister for Finance the Government's proposals for decentralisation of sections of the public service; if an overall plan or strategy has been drawn up; the guidelines, if any, given to Government Departments or if individual Ministers are free to make choices about sections of Departments or agencies to be decentralised; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9350/00]
62 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Finance the proposals, if any, he has to decentralise any part of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment or any agency or body operating under its aegis; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8020/00]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 8, 18, 50 and 62 together.
Since announcing the Government's intention to proceed with a new decentralisation programme in my Budget Statement, I have more recently initiated a consultative process with my Government colleagues with a view to taking decisions on a significant programme of decentralisation by the summer. This process will involve the identification of suitable parts of Departments and Government offices and non-commercial State-sponsored bodies for decentralisation and the selection of those centres to which they will be relocated.
The selection of suitable centres to which Government offices will be relocated will depend on a number of criteria. It is not possible at this stage to provide an exhaustive and definitive list of such criteria other than to say that it will be influenced by the Government's desire to promote regional development and economic growth and to create a more even spread of public service jobs around the country. The Government will also be conscious of other issues which are likely to impact on the success of the programme. These could include issues such as proximity to third level institutions, convenient access to Dublin, the scale of particular offices being decentralised, availability of services, etc.
I am conscious also of the calls on me and other members of the Government to use the vehicle of decentralisation to address job losses in particular areas of the country and in that regard I note the point made about those towns which have failed to attract industry. In view of the process which is under way I would consider it unhelpful if I were to comment on the likelihood or otherwise of any particular location being included in the forthcoming programme, though I assure Deputies that all the proposals made for inclusion will be fully considered by the Government as part of this consultative process. Arising from the process on which the Government has now embarked we will, after the Government has taken the appropriate decisions, have a coherent approach which will allow us to progress expeditiously the most ambitious programme of decentralisation in the history of the State. Any decision relating to the decentralisation of part of any Department or office will be taken by the Government.
I welcome the Minister's response. Is there any question of a population threshold for a particular town?
No.
That is very welcome. It does not have to be the county town for example. Returning to the point I made about the IDA, in the case of those towns where the IDA is finding it almost impossible to attract industry, surely those towns, if they have all the services necessary, should receive preferential treatment, especially where job losses have been experienced in recent times. If the IDA gives a firm declaration that it has been striving to attract industries to these towns and cannot do so, surely the only way to proceed is by way of decentralisation, the only instrument available to Government.
The fact that certain areas in the country have attracted very few, if any, jobs will be one of the criteria taken into account. The loss of jobs in certain areas will also be a consideration. As I said in reply to the earlier priority question, this is particularly ambitious. We have not attempted decentralisation on this scale before, but the success of decentralisation in the past – not just for the towns concerned but for the Departments involved – has done everyone some good. Those working in the public service in Dublin see the attractions in going to other parts of Ireland in a way they would not have considered 15 years ago. I will bear the Deputy's advice in mind when towns are selected and it will be one of the criteria the Government will use.
I welcome the Government decision to implement a further decentralisation programme. It has been part of Fianna Fáil policy for many years. Does the Minister agree that Border areas like Cavan have suffered immensely for 30 years, that there has been very little economic activity and that inward investment has been very limited? The decentralisation of public sector jobs would be a key catalyst in generating economic activity in an area that has suffered so much. Will the Minister assure me that Cavan will be given particularly favourable consideration when decentralisation decisions are made by the Government.
I agree with the Deputy that the Border counties suffered more in the past 30 years than any other part of the country, primarily due to the problems in Northern Ireland. Furthermore, their peripheral status meant they would not attract the same level of industry as other parts of the country. Those factors led to a poor economic situation there and I assure the Deputy those matters will be borne in mind when the Government makes decisions about decentralisation. No area has been ruled in and no area has been ruled out.
Is what the Minister says true? It is worth pointing out that virtually all Civil Service offices are in Dublin 2 and 4. Nobody seems to have given consideration to locating offices in the northern part of Dublin city. When considering decentralisation, relocation or location within the city should not be excluded.
The programme of decentralisation is being derailed or is at risk of having its reputation seriously tarnished before it gets going by virtue of decisions announced by individual Ministers to relocate sections of their Departments in their constituencies. The Minister is not immune from this, having moved the State Laboratory in Celbridge, County Kildare, from Abbotstown. We are bringing the system into disrepute before it gets up and running.
Even the people involved do not regard moving from Abbotstown across Backweston as preferential treatment from the Minister for Finance. Funnily enough, before the decision was made I received letters from some of the staff in the State Laboratory suggesting that if the sports campus was to be built in Abbotstown, the most suitable area for location was Grange or Backweston, as the latter was only a few miles away and is owned by the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development.
I have referred to the other issues raised by the Deputy in a reply to an earlier question from Deputy Noonan. The decisions of the past two and a half years were made in the context of specific Government tasks, such as the White Paper on Defence and the building of Stadium Ireland. The procedure we are going to embark upon is a total programme of decentralisation and, when it is over, the majority of public servants will be outside the Dublin region.
Regarding areas in north Dublin, the Deputy may have seen a report in today's newspaper referring to a meeting of the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party at which his colleagues in north Dublin, Deputies Noel Ahern and Pat Carey, were particularly anxious to state that north Dublin should not be excluded from any relocation of Government offices from Dublin 2 and 4.
I thought Government Buildings was in Upper Drumcondra.
Those working in the offices in Dublin 2 and 4 are from the northside and southside; I do not see what the argument is about.
It is about developing the northside.
That it is proposed to relocate 50,000 public servants has whetted the appetite of every small town in the country and we want to see fair play and even-handedness. That is all we ask. We do not want the Minister for Foreign Affairs to decentralise another Department to Tullamore. We do not want the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources to decentralise sections of his Department to Galway or the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to decentralise more sections to Cahirciveen. Can we not have fair play? Can we have a commission to examine the merits of every city?
We in Waterford are willing to take the rough with the smooth. We are being named as the town to take the first refugee flotel and we are willing to take the rough with the smooth, but we want a little recognition. If we give a little, we want to take a little also. The Minister is fair and can understand my point. We have the highest unemployment rate in Ireland; that has been authenticated by the Central Statistics Office. Will the Minister consider that and bring it into play? Why can we not have a commission instead of political cronyism? That is what the public detests. We want everyone to get their fair dues.
I assure Deputy Deasy that the Government and I will be fair in determining this, as this is the last opportunity to do so. In replying to Deputy Noonan I outlined the reasons behind the decisions to relocate small numbers of civil servants in the past two and a half years. I am sure it was no coincidence that under the previous Administration a large section of the Department of Agriculture and Food was relocated to Deputy Yates's constituency.
I did not bring it to Waterford.
Fine Gael stopped decentralisation in 1981.
Deputy Smith was making his First Communion.
There has never been any decentralisation to Kildare.
Kildare is only an extension of Dublin 4.
I accept what the Deputy says about the Waterford region. Job losses and unemployment will be borne in mind when the Government makes its decision. It will not be possible to satisfy everyone, but I intend to be fair and evenhanded in this matter.
Deputy Deasy asked about a commission. Politicians should be prepared to make decisions. Often when a tricky decision has to be made we hand it to a commission, but if we set up a commission of esteemed public servants to deal with this we would be waiting a long time to see real decentralisation. The Government should be prepared to live or die by its decision.
It would be better having it in the power of a commission than in the gift of political cronyism. That is what is happening.
The Deputy's area will be involved or else he will never sink a long putt from me when I need it in a match.
I thought the Deputy was going to say my part of the country would soon have a Cabinet Minister, but he is not.
I welcome the Government's commitment to escalating the decentralisation programme and I draw his attention to the case made for Kilrush in west Clare. The Minister will be aware that the western region has suffered enormously from depopulation and this is an opportunity to remedy this. An excellent case has been made by various local organisations and the Kilrush Urban District Council and was presented to the Minister. It is an unanswerable case for decentralisation and would have major impact on the economic development of the west Clare area. Will he give that case special consideration?
In all of the initiatives I have taken while in Government, I never received anything approaching the level of representations I received in regard to decentralisation over the past two and a half years. I will certainly bear deprived parts of the country in mind, areas which have not benefited from industry or which have been depopulated as a result of emigration, when making a decision. Some people complain about extra houses being built in their areas when some parts of the country are crying out for development and would be extremely grateful to see even a small number of public service employees being relocated there.
What advice would the Minister give to prospective towns when making their applications? In some cases, consultants are being hired and expensive brochures are being produced. Is that necessary?
That is not necessary but obviously some areas will make a big play for having offices decentralised to their parts of the country. All areas will be considered according to the criteria I outlined. No one place will be favoured over another. This will be a bigger programme than any previous one and it is only fair that areas which did not benefit heretofore would be given a chance on this occasion, irrespective of where Cabinet Ministers come from.
If plans are backed by local development agencies such as SFADCo in the mid-west or the IDA or Kerry County Council, will that be taken into account?
I am sure the Government would take such support into account, together with the other criteria outlined.
Would it be wise for me to inform interest groups in Limerick, for example, to approach the Minister of State at the Department of Education and Science, Deputy O'Dea, or would such an approach be irrelevant?
I am lost for words.
What about Deputy Wade?
