Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 1 Jun 2000

Vol. 520 No. 3

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

The Order of Business today shall be as follows: No. 42a, Statements on Transport Policy; No. 43, Gas (Amendment) Bill, 2000 – Second Stage (resumed); No. 44, Sex Offenders Bill, 2000 – Second Stage (resumed); No. 3, Proceeds of Crime (Amendment) Bill, 1999 – Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) the proceedings on No. 42a, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion after two hours and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the opening statement by the Minister for Public Enterprise and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; (ii) the statement of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes; (iii) Members may share time; and (iv) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes; (2) any division demanded today on No. 43, No. 44 or No. 3 shall be postponed until immediately after the Order of Business on Wednesday, 7 June 2000; and (3) the Dáil, on its rising today, shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 7 June 2000.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are three proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 42a agreed to?

Mr. Sargent

No. Will it be possible to make time available to parties in opposition other than the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party? The matter in question is of concern to all parties.

The Taoiseach

As always, the Government Chief Whip will try to arrange that.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 42a agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with the postponement of divisions today agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with the Adjournment of the Dáil today agreed to? Agreed.

Mr. J. Bruton

We are now entering the month of June, the last month of the sitting until late in the year. Where stands the programme of work that the Government undertook when the Taoiseach met the other party leaders to discuss issues concerning corruption in public life, including anti-corruption legislation, the Government's promised ethics and standards in public office legislation, the registration of lobbyists, the protection of whistleblowers and other allied legislation? When will the Government outline its programme of work in these areas?

The Taoiseach

I hope the standards in public office Bill will be published this session. There are nine other matters. As the Deputy is aware when we met a few weeks ago I outlined what I thought was a reasonable strategy, that we would establish an all-party committee which would work throughout the summer to try to reach agreement and bring these matters to a conclusion to enable us to either amend the standards in public office Bill in the autumn or bring forward whatever legislation is deemed necessary. It is the Deputy's party's position that it is prepared to co-operate and participate in the committee if everybody else is prepared to do likewise. I appreciate and accept this. I have been in correspondence with the leader of the Labour Party. I do not want to give the details, which are confidential, but it is his publicly stated position that if I do not give a decision in advance the party will not participate in the all-party committee. The decision it wants me to give in advance is that I accept the principle that corporate funding should be banned. I do not accept it. It would be against the Constitution.

Mr. Howlin

It would not.

Mr. Stagg

Rubbish.

The Taoiseach

As the leader of a political party I stand by the Constitution. I will not change my position on the matter.

Mr. Gormley

Change the Constitution.

Mr. J. Bruton

In view of the situation as outlined by the Taoiseach what is the Government's plan for legislation dealing with corruption, whistleblowers, lobbyists and related matters? Will it indicate its programme of work? If, as the Taoiseach wished, the all-party committee had been functioning, the Government would have had to produce such a programme by now. What is its programme?

Mr. Belton

Nil.

Mr. Howlin

While the Labour Party awaited the Taoiseach's response to the letter from its leader, to enable it to involve itself with enthusiasm in the work of an all-party committee, it needed the principles established first. It is surprising that the Taoiseach has chosen to respond to the correspondence on the Order of Business rather than in writing.

Mr. M. Smith

The position is well known.

Mr. Howlin

He stands by the contributions that his party is receiving, not the Constitution. It is time to break the link. There is no point in entering a talking shop.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot debate the issue now.

Mr. Howlin

The principles that we want—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should ask a question on promised legislation.

Mr. Howlin

All parties received contributions in the past.

Mr. T. Kitt

So did the Labour Party.

Mr. Howlin

I have said that. It is time to break that link.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have speeches on the matter. The Deputy should ask a question.

Mr. Howlin

We have to establish principles and we are not prepared to bury this issue for six months. The public demands better. It is unfair of the Taoiseach to use the Order of Business to say—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is continuing to make a statement and he is not in order. He should ask a question on promised legislation.

Mr. Howlin

As regards the ethics programme, will the Taoiseach, in the absence of an all-party committee, accept the whistleblowers Bill, the anti-corruption legislation and the electoral amendment Bill published by the Labour Party which will be deemed to have passed Second Stage at the end of December?

The Taoiseach

I am not referring to correspondence between myself and the leader of the Labour Party. I am referring to the issues raised by Deputy Quinn during the Private Members' debate. We are continuing to correspond on those issues.

There are Bills from the Labour Party, the Government and Fine Gael. If we are serious about dealing with the issues on an all-party basis we could do so. I will make another attempt to try to get the Labour Party to come on board. We all have a role to play if we are serious about good legislation. If we just want to set preconditions not to enter into things then that is all right.

Mr. Howlin

There are no preconditions.

Mr. M. Higgins

It is the principle of it. This is the same old fudge.

Mr. Stagg

The Taoiseach is leader of the Government.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach is in possession.

The Taoiseach

In the absence of an all-party committee, the Government will have to proceed with its own legislation, and it will do so.

Mr. J. Bruton

When?

The Taoiseach

The standards in public office Bill will be published this session.

Mr. J. Bruton

That is already promised.

An Ceann Comhairle

We must move on. I call Deputy Gormley.

The Taoiseach

The corruption legislation is ongoing as is the electoral amendment Bill, but it will be the autumn before they are published.

Mr. Belton

Will the Independents back it?

The Taoiseach

If we are really concerned about this matter it would be better to deal with it. People might laugh at the Constitution but there are constitutional—

Mr. Howlin

No one is laughing at the Constitution.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy is doing so. There are constitutional imperatives set down and my advice is that we cannot ignore these issues.

An Ceann Comhairle

We must move on. I call Deputy Gormley.

Mr. Howlin

On a point of order—

An Ceann Comhairle

What is the point of order?

Mr. Howlin

The Taoiseach said there are constitutional difficulties.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not a point of order. I have given the Deputy ample latitude.

Mr. Howlin

I was the Minister who dealt with this issue in 1997 and there are no constitutional difficulties.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should resume his seat.

The Taoiseach

On a point of order, if Deputy Howlin is correct, why did he do nothing about corporate donations when he introduced legislation as Minister?

An Ceann Comhairle

We must move on. I call Deputy Gormley.

Mr. Howlin

We did. We limited them and required disclosure.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have ruled on the matter and we must proceed to the next item.

Mr. Gormley

When will legislation be introduced to set up an independent authority to regulate alternative or complementary medicine? Does the Taoiseach agree this is necessary given the debacle surrounding the banning of St. John's Wort?

The Taoiseach

I do not think there is promised legislation in that area.

Mr. Gormley

There is, I checked with the Department of Health and Children this morning. The IMB also promised it.

Minister for Health and Children (Mr. Martin)

We are working on it, but we did not promise it.

The Taoiseach

The Irish Medicines Board stated it was considering proposals which might bring forward legislation, but there is no legislation at this stage.

Mr. Gormley

Will it happen?

The Taoiseach

We will have to wait and see what the Irish Medicines Board states.

Mr. R. Bruton

Since the Taoiseach is thumbing the Constitution, would he refer to the sections that deal with education? The former Minister for Education and Children, Deputy Martin, gave a commitment in January that there would be an appeal mechanism for children and parents of children with special needs who are not getting the services they require. In other words, they could appeal their cases without going to court. This commitment is not in the legislative programme. What has happened to this commitment? Has it melted away with the departure of Deputy Martin to a different Department?

The Taoiseach

That is a matter for the Minister.

Mr. R. Bruton

I did not hear the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy should table a question to the Minister.

Mr. R. Bruton

This is on promised legislation. This was issued by the Department of Education and Children on 28 January. Has it been dropped from the legislative programme?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has asked his question. We must move to the next subject. I call Deputy Shortall.

Ms Shortall

Will the Taoiseach respond to the shocking stories told on "Prime Time" last night by the many young people who have been failed by this State?

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Ms Shortall

On promised legislation, a Cheann Comhairle, if you will allow me—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should ask the question.

Ms Shortall

Has the Government any doubts about its low tax, low spend policy? Will the Taoiseach at least give a commitment that the long promised and long overdue Children Bill will complete all Stages before the summer recess?

The Taoiseach

I hope it can.

Mr. Stanton

The Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Tom Kitt, promised to regulate advertising by airline companies and stated that legislation would be introduced to this effect. When will we see that legislation?

The Taoiseach

On advertising?

Mr. Stanton

Advertising by airline companies. The Minister of State spoke about this issue on the radio this morning. He promised legislation. When might we see that legislation?

The Taoiseach

The Minister of State is considering the matter, and whether legislation is required.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

The ground rent Bill to abolish ground rents is itemised in section C of the Government's legislative programme for the summer session of the current year. It was stated that the heads of the Bill had yet to be approved.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Another Fianna Fáil joke.

Mr. M. Smith

The Opposition should not be so smug.

Mr. M. Higgins

We have heard this too often.

An Ceann Comhairle

Order.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I am sorry this issue is of such humorous import to other Members, but representatives of Fianna Fáil recently stated the Bill will come before the Dáil shortly. What is the position with the proposed Bill which is expected to address the unacceptable situation still applying in several parts of the country, including in the town of Carrickmacross?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach on promised legislation.

The Taoiseach

The Minister gave a comprehensive reply to the House on 9 November 1999 regarding the Bill and indicated there were constitutional, technical and practical difficulties which have to be dealt with. This is in line with the information I have given the House for the past number of years.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Some time in the next century.

Mr. G. Mitchell

Given that there have been 14 recorded deaths from heroin abuse in recent days, will the Taoiseach consider finding an opportunity before the recess—

An Ceann Comhairle

This matter was debated on the Adjournment last week.

Mr. G. Mitchell

I know that, a Cheann Comhairle. For the information of the House, there have been four deaths since the Adjournment debate. Will the Taoiseach arrange for a debate on this issue before the summer recess—

An Ceann Comhairle

This is a matter for the Whips.

Mr. Rabbitte

Kids are still dying, a Cheann Comhairle.

Mr. G. Mitchell

—to consider the methadone treatment programme? I am not criticising the programme but I would like to see a report on it. It is time we had a considered debate on the matter in the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is a matter for the Whips.

Ms McManus

The review of the Government's programme includes a specific promise to provide a health care approach with particular emphasis on the care of the elderly. In view of the horrific case in which an 85 year old woman died following the trauma of not being treated after 14 hours in an accident and emergency department, will the Government undertake to introduce legislation to protect patients who are suffering and dying as a result of its failure to deal with waiting lists?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach on whether legislation is promised.

The Taoiseach

Legislation already covers these matters. There is also a code of practice and the charter of patients' rights.

Mr. Kenny

What has been described as an exceptional archive of Irish newsreel dealing with the 1916 Rising and subsequent events goes for auction next week. While this would be an appropriate gift to donate to the State, will the Taoiseach make arrangements to ensure it is not lost to the country given that it has never been seen?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a matter for a parliamentary question.

Mr. J. Bruton

It is an important matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is, but it is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Rabbitte

Did the Taoiseach have an opportunity to check or, alternatively, will he write to me concerning whether the Bill to deal with the former Sweepstakes workers will be enacted during this term?

The Taoiseach

That is the intention. The Deputy said yesterday that the legislation involved would be brief. I inquired yesterday as to the extent of it and as soon as I get that information I will give it to the Deputy.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): Dúirt an Taoiseach go gcoimeádfadh sé faoi scrúdú ceist an Bhlascaoid Mhóir maidir le páirc náisiúnta stairiúil a chruthú ann agus dá mbeadh reachtaíocht ag teastáil. An bhfuil aon chinneadh déanta ag an Rialtas reachtaíocht a thabhairt isteach nó an Blascaod Mór a cheannach?

The Taoiseach undertook to keep under review the question of legislation providing for the creation of a national historic park on the Great Blasket Island. As we approach the summer recess, will the Taoiseach indicate if the Government has made a decision on introducing legislation to provide for that or on the State purchasing the Great Blasket Island for the nation? Since the Taoiseach startled the nation last night by declaring on national television that he was a man of the left, I am sure he will have no problem arranging for a compulsory purchase order to buy the Great Blasket Island to preserve it as a national historic park for the wellbeing of the people.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

He could erect a memorial on it to his former leader.

The Taoiseach

A decision has not been made on that. There has been a court case and the Government has not yet finalised its position on it.

Mr. Howlin

I wish to ask the Taoiseach about two legislative matters. Will the Court and Court Officers Bill dealing with standards for the appointment of judges be published during this session? The Human Rights Bill was signed into law yesterday. When will the commission be established and when will the appointment of its chairperson be announced?

The Taoiseach

The Court and Court Officers Bill will be published this session. From my recollection, under the human rights legislation the commission will be established in October. If that is not correct, I will inform the Deputy.