Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 21 Jun 2000

Vol. 521 No. 5

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

The Order of Business today shall be as follows: No. 51 – Education (Welfare) Bill, 1999 [Seanad] – Report and Final Stages (resumed); No. 6 – Prevention of Corruption (Amendment) Bill, 2000 – Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, to adjourn not later than 7 p.m.; No. 7 – Courts (Supplemental Provisions) (Amendment) Bill, 2000 – Order for Second Stage and Second and Remaining Stages; and No. 52 – Town Renewal Bill, 2000 – Second Stage (resumed).

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. and business shall be interrupted not later than 10.30 p.m.; (2) the Report and Final Stages of No. 51 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 5.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Education and Science; and (3) the Second and Remaining Stages of No. 7, shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 10.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Private Members' Business shall be No. 107 – motion re Economic Development and the Environment (resumed) to conclude at 8.30 p.m.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are three proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 51 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 7 agreed?

Mr. J. Bruton

Before we proceed with the Courts (Supplemental Provisions) (Amendment) Bill, the Taoiseach should provide us with further information on a matter affecting the courts. Will he explain what he was attempting to do in the radio interview yesterday when he spoke about former judge, Hugh O'Flaherty? Was he attempting to get Mr. O'Flaherty to withdraw as the Government's nominee in the same manner in which former Taoiseach, Mr. Haughey, succeeded in getting Dr. Smurfit to withdraw as chairman of Telecom following a radio interview? Has the Taoiseach put the questions to which he seeks answers directly to Mr. O'Flaherty and, if not, why not? If the Taoiseach was not seeking Mr. O'Flaherty's withdrawal but rather to have a series of questions answered, will he establish a committee of the House whereby answers could also be provided by Mr. Joe Burke, Mr. Quinlan, former judge Mr. Kelly, Mr. Matthews, the Taoiseach himself and all the other people involved in this affair in order that we can ascertain the truth?

Mr. Howlin

In light of the Taoiseach's comments on radio yesterday, does the Government intend to proceed with Mr. O'Flaherty's nomination to the position in the European Investment Bank, notwithstanding the lack of answers to outstanding questions?

An Ceann Comhairle

We are dealing with the proposal for No. 7.

Mr. Howlin

I am merely seeking the same latitude extended to the Leader of the Fine Gael Party.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Bruton indicated the reasons for his opposition to this proposal.

Mr. Howlin

I am equally opposed to the proposal. The Labour Party is opposed to taking this legislation before clarity is provided on matters requiring the Taoiseach's explanation.

On a more fundamental issue, do we have a Government at the moment? No Progressive Democrats Members are present in the Chamber. The Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs came to the Chamber for the Order of Business and left.

Dr. Woods

There are very few Labour Party Members present.

Mr. Howlin

Is another conclave taking place or are mediators going between the parties in Government? Has the Taoiseach had discussions this morning with the Tánaiste? Do we have a Government? Will the Taoiseach act on his remarks of yesterday and ensure a full and adequate explanation of the Sheedy affair and of Mr. O'Flaherty's role in it is given before he proceeds with the nomination of Mr. O'Flaherty to the vice-presidency of the European Investment Bank?

The Taoiseach

I assure Deputy Bruton that I had no such motives yesterday. Deputy Howlin has asked that I make my position clear. The Government is collectively responsible for the nomination of Mr. Hugh O'Flaherty to the European Investment Bank. As leader of the Government I fully stand over that decision. With all my colleagues we made the decision. The Government had no reason to believe anything untoward needed to be added by way of explanation with regard to the controversy surrounding the Sheedy affair. So that there will be no doubt about the subject of Deputy Howlin's question, I wish Mr. O'Flaherty well. I have no doubt he will do an excellent job in the bank and I hope he serves a long and full period.

Mr. Howlin

May I ask the Taoiseach—

An Ceann Comhairle

I must now put the question.

Mr. Howlin

We might avoid a division if you would allow some latitude, Sir.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must resume his seat. I will allow Deputies Bruton and Howlin to make a final brief comment.

Mr. J. Bruton

If, as the Taoiseach said, nothing untoward is involved, what is he asking Mr. Hugh O'Flaherty to answer for?

Mr. Howlin

Will the Taoiseach require an explanation from Mr. O'Flaherty in advance of the decision to appoint him to the European Investment Bank or will he resile yet again from the position he enunciated on radio last night?

The Taoiseach

I made it absolutely clear in last night's interview that there is no question of that. Mr. O'Flaherty has been nominated to the post. I hope he gets on with the job, I wish him well in it and I hope he serves a full and healthy term of office. That is the end of the story.

Mr. J. Bruton

The Taoiseach is too cute by half.

Question put: "That the proposals for dealing with No. 7 be agreed to."

Tá

Ahern, Bertie.Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Blaney, Harry.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.

Brennan, Matt.Brennan, Séamus.Briscoe, Ben.Browne, John (Wexford).Byrne, Hugh.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Collins, Michael. Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.

Tá–continued

Coughlan, Mary.Cullen, Martin.Daly, Brendan.Dempsey, Noel.Dennehy, John.Doherty, Seán.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Flood, Chris.Fox, Mildred.Gildea, Thomas.Hanafin, Mary.Harney, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.Kenneally, Brendan.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael.Kitt, Tom.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McDaid, James.

McGennis, Marian.McGuinness, John.Martin, Micheál.Moffatt, Thomas.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donnell, Liz.O'Donoghue, John.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Hanlon, Rory.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Kennedy, Michael.O'Malley, Desmond.O'Rourke, Mary.Power, Seán.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Smith, Brendan.Wade, Eddie.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Walsh, Joe.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Barnes, Monica.Barrett, Seán.Belton, Louis.Boylan, Andrew.Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).Bruton, John.Bruton, Richard.Burke, Liam.Burke, Ulick.Carey, Donal.Clune, Deirdre.Connaughton, Paul.Crawford, Seymour.Creed, Michael.Currie, Austin.D'Arcy, Michael.Deasy, Austin.Deenihan, Jimmy.Durkan, Bernard.Enright, Thomas.Farrelly, John.Fitzgerald, Frances.Gregory, Tony.

Hayes, Brian.Higgins, Jim.Hogan, Philip.Howlin, Brendan.McCormack, Pádraic.McGahon, Brendan.McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Paul.Mitchell, Olivia.Neville, Dan.Noonan, Michael.Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.O'Keeffe, Jim.Owen, Nora.Perry, John.Rabbitte, Pat.Reynolds, Gerard.Ring, Michael.Sargent, Trevor.Sheehan, Patrick.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Barrett and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

Mr. J. Bruton

To assist the orderly conduct of business, will the Taoiseach just clarify one or two matters? First, he said that the Government's nominee for the EIB has questions to answer about—

An Ceann Comhairle

I advise the Deputy that we must now move on. We are on the Order of Business.

Mr. Belton

The Government cannot move on. They are stuck here.

An Ceann Comhairle

I allowed a number of questions on that issue. This is the Order of Business. Deputy Bruton should move on to the next matter.

Mr. J. Bruton

It is normal on the Order of Business to allow the Leader of the Opposition and the Leader of the Labour Party to raise a matter that is unresolved. I am doing that.

An Ceann Comhairle

A number of questions were allowed already on the proposal.

Mr. J. Bruton

No, that was on legislation concerning the courts. This is a general Order of Business question which it is normal for the Chair to allow me to put, as it is to allow the Leader of the Labour Party, in his turn, to put a question of a general nature.

An Ceann Comhairle

That right has been exercised by the Deputy.

Mr. J. Bruton

No, it has not.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair decides that, not the Deputy, and the Chair has decided that right has been allowed already. We cannot have a double take.

Mr. J. Bruton

I ask the Taoiseach what questions Hugh O'Flaherty has to answer and whether the Taoiseach asked him those questions.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should not proceed on that line. I asked the Deputy to be orderly. I have given the Deputy the right under my ruling of 14 October. That has been exercised by the Deputy. He should not now abuse the right.

Mr. J. Bruton

I am sorry. I really do not want to abuse anything.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is but the Chair has ruled on the matter

Mr. J. Bruton

I want to ask the Taoiseach—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has already dealt with it. He should resume his seat now that the Chair is on his feet.

Mr. J. Bruton

The Taoiseach effectively tried to get Hugh O'Flaherty to stand aside by saying he had questions to answer. He tried to get Hugh O'Flaherty to stand aside. That is not fair to his family.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should resume his seat. The Chair is on his feet. Deputy Bruton is being disorderly. While there is disorder, I cannot call a Deputy.

(Interruptions).

Mr. J. Bruton

Could I ask the Taoiseach—

An Ceann Comhairle

I call again on Deputy Bruton to resume his seat. There may be opportunities under item No. 7 to raise matters to which he is now referring.

Mr. J. Bruton

This concerns a matter on which the Taoiseach would like to answer.

An Ceann Comhairle

This is on the Order of Business and it is not the appropriate way to raise this matter; it is not a matter appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. J. Bruton

I think the Taoiseach would like to answer because he did not answer it. He asked the same questions we asked.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have ruled. The Deputy should resume his seat.

Mr. J. Bruton

Will he ask for a committee to be established above all others so that people who have—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy continues to be disorderly. We must have order. When we come to No. 7—

Deputy Howlin rose.

Mr. J. Bruton

The Sheedy case was a human scandal, a human tragedy. If there are questionsto be asked and the Taoiseach knows what those questions are, he should ask the questions—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is being disorderly. Will he resume his—

Mr. J. Bruton

I know I am. I am not being given the opportunity to be orderly.

Mr. Belton

The Taoiseach was disorderly.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must resume his seat.

Mr. J. Bruton

I want to be orderly. I have already put what I want to ask in an orderly manner.

Dr. Woods

Obey the Chair.

Mr. J. Bruton

I do not want to be disorderly. This matter is too serious. This tragedy is too serious for—

Mr. O'Flynn

The Deputy is disorderly.

Dr. Woods

Show respect for the Chair.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must resume his seat. For the final time will the Deputy resume his seat?

(Interruptions).

Mr. J. Bruton

I have respect for the Chair.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has a poor way of showing it.

Mr. J. Bruton

Unfortunately, the Government has not as much respect for Hugh O'Flaherty—

Mr. D. Ahern

The Deputy did not have respect two weeks ago. Crocodile tears.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

I now conclude the Order of Business.

Deputies Howlin, Stagg and Rabbitte rose.

An Ceann Comhairle

We proceed to No. 51.

Mr. Howlin

On other matters—

Mr. Rabbitte

We will withdraw.

Mr. Howlin

The Progressive Democrats have already withdrawn.

An Ceann Comhairle

We proceed to No. 51 – Education (Welfare) Bill, 1999 – Report and Final Stages. The Order of Business is concluded.

Mr. Howlin

We will have our say. We will not be bullied.

An Ceann Comhairle

I suspend the sitting until 11.15 a.m.

Sitting suspended at 11.02 a.m. and resumed at 11.15 a.m.

An Ceann Comhairle

We resume on No. 51, amendment No. 59. Deputy Richard Bruton was in possession.

Mr. Howlin

On a point of order, the normal procedure in this House is that the main parties in Opposition get an opportunity to raise issues on the Order of Business. That opportunity was not afforded to me this morning. I would like an opportunity to do that now, rather than be disorderly. I have not been disorderly today. It is wrong that I was not given the opportunity to put matters of serious importance to the Taoiseach on the Order of Business this morning.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are now on No. 51. We have moved on.

Mr. Howlin

No, sir, that is not acceptable. It is not possible to continue with normal business. Surely the Taoiseach can answer major questions, the most basic of which is whether we still have a Government.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not the Chair's fault.

Mr. Howlin

The members of the Progressive Democrats Party participated in a vote – they are in the precincts of the House – but they left immediately.

Mrs. O'Rourke

So did the Deputy.

Mr. Howlin

Can the Taoiseach—

An Ceann Comhairle

I allowed the Deputy to raise a matter on a point of order. I have explained to him that we are now on No. 51 which is the Education (Welfare) Bill.

Mr. Howlin

It would be surreal, a Cheann Comhairle, to continue with normal business.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to be orderly and not cause any further disorder or disruption of the House.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Where is the Government?

Mr. Howlin

I have attempted throughout this process to be orderly but you, Sir, would not allow me to participate on the Order of Business.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should resume his seat.

Mr. Howlin

That was wrong.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have allowed the Deputy to make what he claims is a point of order. We are now on the business of the day, No. 51, as ordered by the House.

Mr. Howlin

Can I ask a question of the Taoiseach, Sir?

An Ceann Comhairle

We have moved away from the Order of Business.

Mr. Belton

The Minister for Education and Science, once more into the breach.

Mr. Howlin

Is it not unprecedented for the spokesperson for each of the parties not to be allowed to make a contribution on the Order of Business?

Mrs. Owen

Yes.

Mr. Howlin

I was not called this morning. It was not my fault. I offered.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have pointed out that in the circumstances that prevailed, the Chair exercised its right under Standing Order 26 to proceed with the business.

Mr. Howlin

I am now asking for an opportunity to ask a question.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is the Chair's absolute right under that Standing Order. We are not having a debate on the matter

Mr. Howlin

Unfortunately, the Chair is now preventing the Opposition from doing its job.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy does not resume his seat and allow the business of the House, as ordered by the House, to proceed, I will suspend the sitting again.

Mr. Howlin

I do not want that.

An Ceann Comhairle

Well, that is exactly what will happen if the Deputy does not resume his seat. I cannot allow any further discussion. We are on No. 51.

Mr. Howlin

We do not have a Dáil if Members are not allowed to raise issues.

An Ceann Comhairle

What the Deputy is stating is not relevant to No. 51, so I will suspend the sitting until 12 noon.

Sitting suspended at 11.20 a.m. and resumed at 12 noon.

An Ceann Comhairle

We will resume on amendment No. 59 of the Education (Welfare) Bill.

Mr. Howlin

On a point of order, has the Chair had an opportunity to consider the point I made before the suspension? I want to be orderly but a number of basic facts must be established, the most pertinent of which is if there is still a Government. It is important that the precedent of the spokespersons of the Opposition parties being afforded an opportunity to raise topical issues is maintained. The survival of the Government is certainly a matter for the House and that issue should be accommodated on this occasion. Perhaps the Ceann Comhairle has had an opportunity to reflect on the matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

I repeat what I said earlier. The Chair has discretion regarding the number of questions that may be raised on the Order of Business . The relevant Standing Order 26.3 states, inter alia, the Ceann Comhairle may, at his or her discretion, permit questions to be raised about business. There is no doubt about the Chair's power in this regard. If Members wish to change that Standing Order, it is in their hands to do so.

The decision I took this morning was not unprecedented. On a number of occasions on which there has been disorder, in spite of many attempts by the Chair to correct it, the Chair has called the next business and will do so again when there is disorder. There was gross disorder when the Chair appealed repeatedly for Deputy Bruton to resume his seat and allow the business to continue. He refused to do so and admitted that he was disorderly. The Chair was left with no option but to move to the next business as I have done on many occasions previously. There are other ways during the course of the day in which matters can be raised, for example, on the Adjournment.

Mr. Howlin

I appreciate the Ceann Comhairle's explanation. However, it is grossly unfair that my party was disenfranchised by disorderly behaviour by any other Member. It is most important that the Opposition parties are given a chance to put questions to the Taoiseach. When the stability of the Government is in question, it is important that the Taoiseach immediately addresses the issue. Has there been any request from the Taoiseach under Standing Order 42 to make a statement to the House later today to clarify his comments last night and the position of the Government?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not a point of order but, to facilitate the Deputy, the Chair is not aware of any such request. However, that is not a point of order.

Mr. Howlin

It is certainly a matter relevant to the House. My basic point is that it is surreal for the House to continue with normal business when we are not sure at this time if the Government is a cohesive unit, if the Progressive Democrats are still part of the Government or whether the rift that the media and commentators outside the House are discussing—

An Ceann Comhairle

As the Chair pointed out, there are other ways of raising the matter.

Mr. Howlin

This House, which elects the Government, is being denied an opportunity to reflect on it.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot continue with a discussion on this matter. I allowed a number of questions on the proposal on the Order of Business and on that matter.

Mr. Howlin

I was not called at all on the Order of Business.

Mr. J. Bruton

On a point of order, will the Ceann Comhairle agree that it would be in the best interests of the House if the Taoiseach answered queries about the questions he wants Mr. Hugh O'Flaherty to answer?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not a matter for the Ceann Comhairle.

Mr. J. Bruton

I know it is not and I respect the Chair's position. I do not disagree in any way with the Ceann Comhairle's rulings and I fully understand that he must take difficult decisions vis-à-vis the Leader of the Opposition and others from time to time. However, this problem has its origin in the Taoiseach saying that a Government appointee to a senior position has questions to answer—

Dr. Woods

He did not say that.

Mrs. Owen

He did.

Mr. J. Bruton

—and not explaining how those questions are to be answered in and for the House by him and others, including Joe Burke.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Bruton should apply himself to finding other ways of pursuing this matter during the day. It cannot be pursued at this stage.

Mr. J. Bruton

The Taoiseach—

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy applies himself to finding other ways to do it, he may succeed.

Mr. J. Bruton

As the senior upholder of the House, does the Ceann Comhairle agree that if important statements are to be made by the Taoiseach about Government appointees, they should be made in the House and not on radio programmes and chat shows where Members of the House are unable to question the Taoiseach?

An Ceann Comhairle

That cannot be dealt with on the Order of Business.

Mr. J. Bruton

This arises from what the Taoiseach said outside the House for which he should answer.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is repeating—

Mr. Cowen

The Deputy should give us a thesis on forgiveness.

Mr. Howlin

The Minister for diplomacy.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the House continues to be disorderly, I will be left with no option but to suspend the sitting.

Mr. Belton

The Minister should go and find the Progressive Democrats now.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will have to make a drastic decision about the suspension. I will allow a brief final question from Deputy Howlin.

Mr. Howlin

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for facilitating me. He has said repeatedly that there are other ways to address the crucial issues which arose last night and this morning. The Order of Business did not afford us such an opportunity. How can the questions which need to be put to the Taoiseach be put and answered today in the Chamber rather than on the plinth of Leinster House or on the street?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Adjournment debate is one way. We cannot have a wide ranging discussion. The matter arose on the Order of Business but if I have to suspend the sitting again, it will be a drastic decision.

Mr. Howlin

Do not do it.

Mr. Noonan

I have tabled a Private Notice Question to the Minister for Finance on this issue. Will the Ceann Comhairle allow it?

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter is under consideration. I cannot give a decision in the House, but it is under consideration.

Mr. J. Bruton

It would provide a resolution to the problem.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

It would resolve it.

Mrs. Owen

Can the Chair give an indication?

Mr. Noonan

If we were sure that alternative methods were open to us—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will have to accept my word that it is being considered.

Mr. Noonan

On a matter of such importance, with the House now in crisis, will the Chair rule on it now?

An Ceann Comhairle

No, the Deputy cannot pursue the matter now. We cannot create a precedent where the Chair is obliged to decide openly in the House on questions of that kind.

Mr. J. Bruton

There are suggestions that more people will appear on radio shows.

Mr. Cowen

That is outrageous, more people on radio shows. How many more?

Mrs. Owen

When we hear people on the radio, we know things are really bad.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Rabbitte.

Mr. Sheehan

It is showing disrespect for the House.

Mr. Rabbitte

We tried to raise this matter under Standing Order 31.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair ruled on that matter.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Chair did not permit it.

Mr. Cowen

There is a crisis. There are more people on a radio programme.

Mr. Rabbitte

Given the gravity of the issues involved, to raise the matter on the Adjournment tonight at 10.30 p.m. would be entirely improper. We need an opportunity where the Taoiseach or the Minister for Finance can answer questions given that one of the parties in the Coalition has absented itself from the House and its members have refused to take their positions. This is such an important issue that the country is talking about it. It is important that the House is allowed to deal with it.

Dr. Woods

They voted in the House earlier.

Mr. Howlin

They then ran out.

Mr. Rabbitte

Will you take Private Notice Questions on this issue and we can then get on with the business of the House?

An Ceann Comhairle

That request is under consideration. I cannot give blank assurances here.

Mr. Rabbitte

We are anxious to facilitate the business of the House. The Taoiseach said that a person appointed to a European post has questions to answer. Nonetheless, he intends to go ahead with the appointment. We need to clarify that.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should not repeat the argument.

Mr. Howlin

There is another vehicle available today. The Select Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, which issued the original invitation to Mr. O'Flaherty, is meeting this afternoon. Will you permit the Minister for Education and Science or the Government Chief Whip to respond to the call from my party and from Fine Gael this morning to allow a further invitation to be issued to Mr. O'Flaherty in advance of his nomination to any position in the European Investment Bank?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a matter for the committee.

Mr. Howlin

Will you allow the Minister for Education and Science or the Government Chief Whip to give the Government's view on the issue?

An Ceann Comhairle

That request is a matter for the committee.

Mr. Howlin

The Government has a majority on the committee.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have allowed a great deal of latitude on this matter.

Mr. Cowen

We are back to the important business of listening to radio shows.

Mr. Stagg

The Labour Party has the continuing difficulty that we sought to legitimately raise this issue on the Order of Business and you, a Cheann Comhairle, decided not to allow it for the reasons outlined.

An Ceann Comhairle

It was allowed under the proposal.

Mr. Stagg

We have asked you how we can raise this issue today but the only possible suggestion you have is that it might be raised on the Adjournment Debate, which is entirely unacceptable. We are now in the difficult position, arising from your ruling, that we cannot raise this issue about which the country is talking.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must resume his seat. I must proceed or there will be a drastic decision on the suspension of the business of the House.

Mr. Stagg

This House will be seen to be irrelevant.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to resume his seat. I must correct the record. I allowed a number of questions on the matter under the proposal on the Order of Business. It is not true to say these questions were not allowed.

Mr. Howlin

That was on legislation not on the Order of Business.

An Ceann Comhairle

I must call No. 51.

Mr. Stagg

We are in the continuing difficult situation where we legitimately raised this issue.

An Ceann Comhairle

If we do not move to No. 51, I will have no option but to suspend the work of the House. The Chair either rules or does not rule in this House.

Mr. Boylan

The Chair should make the Taoiseach answerable to the House not to Eamon Dunphy.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Members wish to introduce an alternative system, it is up to Members to do that. The Chair must bring finality to this matter. We have already spent 15 minutes on this issue.

Mr. Boylan

The Taoiseach could be stuck up a tree in south Dublin.

Mr. Howlin

Perhaps the Chair could indicate if Private Notice Questions will be allowed.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair will not create a precedent by giving a decision. The Chair will give this matter consideration.

Mr. Stagg

You created a precedent this morning with a matter of this gravity being ruled out of order.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should not proceed. Any disorder on the Order of Business will result in us moving to the next business. That has been and will continue to be the case. The Chair has absolute discretion under Standing Order 26. If Members read Standing Order 26, they will see the Chair has discretion in terms of the number of questions, if any, which can be taken on the Order of Business. I ask Members to accept the Standing Order. If Members do not accept it, there will be a drastic suspension of the House. Are Members prepared to proceed to No. 51?

Mr. J. Bruton

Would it be possible to find a means of communication between the Chair and the Opposition parties? This issue will be resolved.

An Ceann Comhairle

Any Member is free to contact the Ceann Comhairle's office.

Mr. J. Bruton

I understand you do not want to set a precedent by giving a ruling in the middle of an argument in the House. Perhaps some means of communication could be found between your office and the two Opposition parties so we could resolve this matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

Any Member can contact the Ceann Comhairle's office at any stage. That continues to be the position.

Mr. J. Bruton

We do not want to disrupt the business of the House.

Mr. Cowen

On FM or medium wave.

Mr. Sheehan

Have we a Government and is it in charge of the country? I do not think so at present.

Dr. Woods

We will look after the Deputy.