Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 28 Jun 2000

Vol. 522 No. 3

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach:

The Order of Business today shall be as follows: No. 23, motion re appointment of Ombudsman; No. 45, the Intoxicating Liquor Bill, 2000 [Seanad], Order for Report and Report and Final Stages; No. 46, the Electronic Commerce Bill, 2000 [Seanad], Second Stage (Resumed) and No. 1, the Harbours (Amendment) Bill, 2000 [Seanad], Second Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. and business shall be interrupted not later than 10.30 p.m.; (2) No. 23, shall be decided without debate; (3) Report and Final Stages of No. 45 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 6.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and (4) Second Stage of No. 46 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 10.30 p.m. Private Members' business shall be No. 101, motion re Government Policies (Resumed) to conclude at 8.30 p.m.

An Ceann Comhairle:

There are four proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed?

Mr. J. Bruton:

It is not agreed. It is only required because this Government is running away from the Dáil and does not want to sit next week, does not want the Dáil to consider next week the outcome of the Taoiseach's appearance at the tribunal and does not want the Dáil to consider the Tánaiste's total lack of accountability to this House for her appalling misjudgments.

Mrs. Owen:

Missing again.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe:

Where is she?

Mr. J. Bruton:

This country has no Government at the moment. The fact the rail strike is continuing without any visible intervention from the Minister or without even any outrage in this House shows how this Government and this House are completely distracted by sleaze, and will conmtinue to be, as long as this Government continues in office. We will not agree to the proposal.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The question is: "That the proposal for the late sitting be agreed to."

Question put.

Tá

Ahern, Bertie.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Andrews, David.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Matt.Brennan, Séamus.Briscoe, Ben.Browne, John (Wexford).Byrne, Hugh.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Collins, Michael.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary.Cowen, Brian.Cullen, Martin.de Valera, Síle.Dennehy, John.Doherty, Seán.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Flood, Chris.Fox, Mildred.Gildea, Thomas.Hanafin, Mary.Harney, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.Kenneally, Brendan.

Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael.Lawlor, Liam.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James.McGennis, Marian.McGuinness, John.Martin, Micheál.Moffatt, Thomas.Molloy, Robert.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Ó Cuív, Éamon.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donnell, Liz.O'Donoghue, John.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Hanlon, Rory.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Kennedy, Michael.O'Malley, Desmond.O'Rourke, Mary.Power, Seán.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wade, Eddie.Wallace, Dan.Walsh, Joe.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Ahearn, Theresa.Allen, Bernard.Barnes, Monica.Barrett, Seán.Belton, Louis.Boylan, Andrew.Bradford, Paul.Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).Bruton, John.Bruton, Richard.Burke, Liam.Burke, Ulick.Carey, Donal.Clune, Deirdre.Connaughton, Paul.Cosgrave, Michael.Coveney, Simon.Creed, Michael.Currie, Austin.D'Arcy, Michael.Deenihan, Jimmy.Durkan, Bernard.Enright, Thomas.Farrelly, John.Finucane, Michael.Fitzgerald, Frances.Flanagan, Charles.Gormley, John.Hayes, Brian.Healy, Séamus.Higgins, Jim.Higgins, Joe.

Higgins, Michael.Hogan, Philip.Howlin, Brendan.McCormack, Pádraic.McDowell, Derek.McGinley, Dinny.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Olivia.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Noonan, Michael.Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.O'Keeffe, Jim.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Owen, Nora.Penrose, William.Perry, John.Quinn, Ruairí.Rabbitte, Pat.Reynolds, Gerard.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Shatter, Alan.Sheehan, Patrick.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Upton, Mary.Wall, Jack.Yates, Ivan.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Barrett and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 23 agreed to?

Mr. J. Bruton:

No, Sir. We agree to the proposal but we do not agree to the Ombudsman motion being taken without debate. The Ombudsman's job is to hold civil servants to account. Until the House knows the Tánaiste is prepared to account to this House for her mis takes, in the same way the Ombudsman holds civil servants to account for theirs, we should not fail to debate this issue. I welcome the Tánaiste to the Chamber for the first time but she should explain herself to the House.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The question is: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 23 be agreed to."

Question put.

Tá

Ahern, Bertie.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Andrews, David.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Blaney, Harry.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Matt.Brennan, Séamus.Briscoe, Ben.Browne, John (Wexford).Byrne, Hugh.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Collins, Michael.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary.Cowen, Brian.Cullen, Martin.de Valera, Síle.Dennehy, John.Doherty, Seán.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Flood, Chris.Foley, Denis.Fox, Mildred.Gildea, Thomas.Hanafin, Mary.Harney, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.

Kenneally, Brendan.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael.Lawlor, Liam.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James.McGennis, Marian.McGuinness, John.Martin, Micheál.Moffatt, Thomas.Molloy, Robert.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Ó Cuív, Éamon.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donnell, Liz.O'Donoghue, John.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Hanlon, Rory.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Kennedy, Michael.O'Malley, Desmond.O'Rourke, Mary.Power, Seán.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wade, Eddie.Wallace, Dan.Walsh, Joe.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Ahearn, Theresa.Allen, Bernard.Barnes, Monica.Barrett, Seán.Bell, Michael.Belton, Louis.Boylan, Andrew.Bradford, Paul.Broughan, Thomas.Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).Bruton, John.Bruton, Richard.Burke, Liam.Burke, Ulick.Carey, Donal.Clune, Deirdre.Connaughton, Paul.Cosgrave, Michael.Coveney, Simon.Creed, Michael.

Currie, Austin.D'Arcy, Michael.Deenihan, Jimmy.Durkan, Bernard.Enright, Thomas.Farrelly, John.Finucane, Michael.Fitzgerald, Frances.Flanagan, Charles.Gormley, John.Hayes, Brian.Healy, Seamus.Higgins, Jim.Higgins, Joe.Higgins, Michael.Hogan, Philip.Howlin, Brendan.McCormack, Pádraic.McDowell, Derek. McManus, Liz.

Níl–continued

Mitchell, Olivia.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Noonan, Michael.Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.O'Keeffe, Jim.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Owen, Nora.Penrose, William.Perry, John.Quinn, Ruairí.

Rabbitte, Pat.Reynolds, Gerard.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Shatter, Alan.Sheehan, Patrick.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Upton, Mary.Wall, Jack.Yates, Ivan.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Barrett and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 45 agreed?

Mr. J. Bruton:

Before the House agrees to conclude the legislation which seeks to regulate the drinks trade, we should be informed of the Government's intentions for the imposition of price control on drinks. It is meaningless to consider the Bill without knowing the Government's intentions in terms of price control. Can the Tánaiste find her voice and tell us of her plans in this regard?

An Ceann Comhairle:

Price control is not relevant to this.

Mr. J. Bruton:

It is meaningless to consider the number of pub licences, which are designed in part to ensure a reasonable degree of competition, and at the same time not know the Government's intention in relation to price control. Before agreeing to this item the Taoiseach should indicate the Government's intentions. I have no wish to divide the House on the matter. The Government has agreed a package and is afraid to announce it.

Mrs. Owen:

It is a simple question.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Price control does not arise in the context of the Bill.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): Does the Taoiseach agree it might be more useful to have a Bill on how the country should deal with a punch drunk Government which staggers from crisis to crisis?

Question, "That No. 45 be taken today", put and declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 46 agreed? Agreed.

Mr. J. Bruton:

Will the Dáil sit next week?

The Taoiseach:

No.

Mr. J. Bruton:

It should.

Mr. Quinn:

I wish to give notice to the House that the Labour Party will be tabling a motion of no confidence today and I request the Taoiseach to arrange for the Government and Opposition whips to meet to arrange when that motion can be taken.

The Taoiseach:

The Government will be glad to do that, we will give Government time and formally take the motion head on.

Mr. Quinn:

Is the Taoiseach speaking for both parties in the Government?

The Taoiseach:

I speak for the Government.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe:

For how long?

A Deputy:

The Tánaiste should say something.

Mr. Belton:

The lapsed Member.

Mr. S. Ryan:

At least we are allowed speak.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): In the real world – the world outside the walls of Leinster House – a serious crisis is developing in the rail services—

Dr. Woods:

We all live out there.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West):—with Iarnród Éireann stupidly refusing to dialogue with half its train drivers. Imminent lay-off of industrial workers—

An Ceann Comhairle:

It is not in order to make a statement on the Order of Business.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): It is important for commuters. When will the Industrial Relations (Amendment) Bill, which deals with trade union recognition, be brought forward? Will the Government take an initiative to force Iarnród Éireann to dialogue with half its workforce?

The Taoiseach:

The legislation is currently in the Seanad.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:

No. 1 on the Order of Business is the Harbours (Amendment) Bill, 2000. I believe this may be a hybrid Bill as defined in Standing Orders relative to a private business. It directly affects the livelihood of a particular—

An Ceann Comhairle:

I have examined that matter and have ruled accordingly, namely, that it is not a hybrid Bill.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:

A petition has been forwarded to the Office of the Ceann Comhairle and I was hoping—

An Ceann Comhairle:

I have dealt with the petition and the matter has been disposed of. It is part of today's business.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:

It affects the position in relation to the office of an individual.

Mr. Sargent:

I wish to ask the Taoiseach about the Dumping at Sea (Amendment) Bill. I understand how it may have slipped his attention that Ireland is involved in serious negotiations over OSPAR regarding nuclear dumping at sea. The Bill would give us an opportunity to refocus the Government on the issue and I wish to know if the Taoiseach will bring it forward before the end of session.

The Taoiseach:

The heads of the Dumping at Sea (Amendment) Bill were approved by the Government in May and it will be available in the autumn.

Mr. J. Bruton:

Will the Government provide time for a discussion on the impact of the current rail dispute on tourists and on those who have lost their jobs? Has the Government any plan to deal with the matter?

Mrs. Owen:

Before we go into recess.

The Taoiseach:

There is no legislation, but the Minister for Public Enterprise has made it clear that this unnecessary dispute should be resolved and that the normal industrial relations mechanisms in CIE should be followed.

Mr. Higgins

(Mayo): The latest tragic suicide in Wheatfield Prison, where the deceased was in jail—

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy dealt with that matter yesterday.

Mr. Higgins

(Mayo): It relates to promised legislation. The latest tragic suicide in Wheatfield Prison, where the deceased was in jail for road traffic offences, brings to nine the number of deaths in prisons in the past 18 months. There are two Bills on the Order Paper in relation to which the Government has failed to act, namely, the Attachment of Earnings Bill and the Prison Services Bill. Why has the Taoiseach failed to bring forward two fundamental but simple Bills which would bring about long overdue reform of the prison system and end the deaths which have characterised the past 18 months and which are totally unacceptable in a modern prison regime?

The Taoiseach:

The heads of the Attachment of Earnings Bill, which will end imprisonment for civil debt and inability to pay fines, are expected in autumn, but I do not think the Bill will be available until the spring session. The heads of the Prison Services Bill are expected very shortly and should certainly be cleared over the summer.

Mr. Howlin:

The majority of the members of the Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights voted to refer back to the House—

An Ceann Comhairle:

We cannot discuss the proceedings of a committee.

Mr. Howlin:

The majority voted to refer back to the House the procedures to investigate the circumstances of the Sheedy affair. The Fianna Fáil members, who form the majority on the committee, said it was exclusively a matter for the House. What is the Government's intention in terms of providing time to work out a mechanism—

An Ceann Comhairle:

The House has not received a report from the committee and until it does we cannot deal with the matter.

Mr. Howlin:

—or is the Government anxious that the matter would be simply ended?

An Ceann Comhairle:

We cannot deal with the matter.

Mr. Belton:

It is a matter for the next general election.

Mr. Howlin:

The majority of the committee, I understand on instruction from the Fianna Fáil whip, decided the matter would be referred back to the House.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Chair does not have the report, it is not before the House.

Mr. Howlin:

What is the Government's intention in regard to finding the full facts and circumstances of the Sheedy affair?

An Ceann Comhairle:

That is not relevant to the Order of Business. It can be raised when the report of the committee comes to the House.

Mr. Belton:

We should ask the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, who speaks with two voices.

Mr. Howlin:

The report—

An Ceann Comhairle:

At this stage the report is still in the domain of the committee.

Mr. Howlin:

The report, which was reaffirmed yesterday, has been debated in the House.

An Ceann Comhairle:

It is still in the domain of the committee.

Mr. Belton:

The Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, voted against it and said something else on radio. She speaks with two voices.

Mrs. Owen:

There are only two days remaining in the session and it is a disgrace that the Government does not seem to be concerned about people who are unable to get to their jobs because of the train strike. Commuters on the Drogheda-Dublin line are stranded every day. They do not know when trains are due and they are not getting to work—

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy is making a statement which is not in order on the Order of Business.

Mrs. Owen:

—which is a disgrace. Does the Government intend publishing the company law enforcement legislation in the remaining two days of this session?

The Taoiseach:

The heads of the Bill were passed yesterday and I think it is being printed.

Mrs. Owen:

Will we get it in the dying hours of Friday?

The Taoiseach:

The Deputy will receive it in this session. I wish to correct Deputy Owen. The Government is very concerned about the strike, but Iarnród Éireann cannot, and has made it clear that it will not, negotiate with an unofficial group. It has been the tradition since 1946, from which I hope no one in the House is moving, that we do not deal with unofficial groups which are not recognised for negotiation purposes.

An Ceann Comhairle:

I call Deputy Rabbitte.

Mrs. Owen:

The recognised unions could be asked to do something.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy should resume her seat.

Mr. M. Smith:

She is playing politics.

Mrs. Owen:

I am not; if the Minister was stranded for two hours at a train station—

An Ceann Comhairle:

Will the Deputy, please, resume her seat? I have called Deputy Rabbitte.

Mr. M. Smith:

The Deputy is not helping.

Mrs. Owen:

The Minister does not have to take the train to work.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle:

I will bring the Order of Business to a close if the disorder continues.

Mr. Rabbitte:

Now that the Tánaiste has returned to the marital bed, politically speaking, has the Government resolved to bury the McDowell report?

The Taoiseach:

As I stated yesterday, work is ongoing and I hope the report will be ready and available by the autumn.

Mr. Timmins:

On 24 May the Tánaiste published the Nitrigin Éireann Teoranta Bill, 2000. Given that 200 workers at the IFI plant in Arklow have been put on protective notice does the Taoiseach envisage any changes to the Bill which deals, among other matters, with the proposed future sale of the IFI?

An Ceann Comhairle:

The question of changes to the Bill is not in order.

The Taoiseach:

The Bill was published on 26 May. It will be debated in the normal course.

Mr. Flanagan:

I wish to be associated with the very important remarks of my colleague, Deputy Howlin, regarding the proceedings yesterday at the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights.

An Ceann Comhairle:

We cannot discuss the proceedings of the committee until its report comes before the House.

Mr. Belton:

Please, listen to the Deputy; give him a chance.

Mr. Flanagan:

I am not seeking to discuss the proceedings of the committee, rather I am asking you, as Chairman of this assembly, to confirm that you have not received its report—

An Ceann Comhairle:

I pointed out that I have not received the report.

Mr. Flanagan:

That being the case – I welcome your clarification – I ask the Government Chief Whip to immediately contact the paid convenor of the committee to ascertain the reason a report has not been laid before the House.

An Ceann Comhairle:

That is a matter for the committee.

Mr. Flanagan:

It is a matter which must come up in the House before we adjourn for the summer.