I wish to share time with Deputy Carey.
Private Members' Business. - Primary Education: Motion (Resumed).
The following motion was moved by Deputy Enright on 10 December 2002:
That Dáil Éireann, concerned for the welfare and educational prospects of primary school children:
–notes that Irish schools have some of the largest class sizes and the fewest back-up services in western Europe;
–notes that 28% of children in Irish schools have special needs, many of which are not identified in time and for many of whom there is a lack of specialist support;
–concerned that the recently announced embargo on recruitment in the public service will adversely affect the availability of specialist teachers in addition to the 400 extra teachers promised under PPF;
–deplores the lack of Government commitment to tackle educational disadvantage;
–appalled that thousands of pupils and teachers are forced to risk their health and safety by spending their school hours in grossly substandard classroom accommodation in hundreds of primary schools throughout the country; and
–concerned that the Government has cut the budget for primary school buildings by almost €70 million for 2003 and 2004,
condemns the Government for its abject failure to live up to its pre-election promises and challenges the Minister for Education and Science to set out the cause of his failure to address the crisis in primary education.
Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:
To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann," and substitute the following:
"– noting that some 2,900 additional teaching posts have been created in the primary school sector since 1997, significantly improving the overall pupil-teacher ratio from 21.7 to 19.0 in the intervening period;
–recognising the substantial increase in the level of additional services provided, particularly to schools in disadvantaged areas;
–noting the unprecedented levels of investment in special education services arising from the Government's decision in 1998, that all children with special needs in the primary system should be entitled to an automatic response to their needs, irrespective of their level of need or location;
–recognising the unparalleled increases since 1998 in the numbers of special resource teachers, special needs assistants, learning support (remedial) teachers and the level of part-time tuition services provided to support children with special needs;
–noting the Government's unprecedented commitment to the prioritisation of funding and supports to address educational disadvantage through a range of targeted programmes and initiatives;
–noting the Government's commitment to improving school accommodation as demonstrated by the fourfold increase in funding for primary buildings since 1997; and
–noting the dramatic expansion of the school building and refurbishment programme at primary level;
commends the Government for the massive expansion of teaching and other resources to support the education of children in primary schools, particularly those with special educational needs and those who are most disadvantaged and notes the determination of the Minister for Education and Science and the Government to continue the school building programme in order to meet new and emerging needs and to eliminate the substandard accommodation which has accumulated in primary schools because of past under-investment."
–(Minister of State at the Department
of the Environment and Local Government,
Mr. Gallagher).
Acting Chairman (Mr. Kirk)
Is that agreed? Agreed.
I am pleased to have the opportunity to outline for Members, the Government's unparalleled investment in primary education over the past five years, and our commitment to a continued enhancement of services in this sector, particularly for children with special educational needs and those who are most disadvantaged. It is disappointing to find the 31 members of the Fine Gael Party in the House banding together without anything positive to say about our primary education system.
I hope the Minister has something positive to say.
I suppose I should not be surprised—
The Minister was not in the House and he does not know anything about—
Acting Chairman
Will the Deputy restrain himself, please.
I suppose I should not be surprised. There is a great deal more. If the Deputy does not restrain himself he will have a heart attack before I am finished.
Acting Chairman
I dissuade the Minister from inviting responses.
I will refrain. I suppose I should not have been surprised at some of the names but I would have thought that the newer Members might have seen they were being led up the garden path by the very people who, between them, managed to lose the last election with such distinction.
The next election—
For the vast majority of Irish people, the education system is first class. It has proved to be one of the best systems in the world. Collectively, we should recognise its broad excellence and acknowledge the vast contribution made by so many. Unquestionably, our education system is a key driver of our economic and social development as a nation. However, in recognising its excellence, we should constantly seek ways to make it better. That is my focus as Minister. It should be acknowledged that the teachers within that system have given sterling service, even though in recent years some people have used the difficulties in education to have a go at the teaching profession. I am not referring to anybody in the House. I am sure I speak for most Members when I commend the teaching profession for its professionalism, commitment and dedication.
The Government's commitment to primary education is unparalleled across the whole range of services. Since 1997, some 2,900 additional teaching posts have been created in primary schools. These teaching posts have been used to reduce class sizes and to provide additional resources for children with special needs. If one takes into account the demographic dividend, there are up to another 1,000 teachers in the system as a result of their absorption. The staffing schedule for primary schools is currently designed to ensure a maximum class size of 29 pupils by reference to the enrolment on 30 September of the previous year – down from 35 in 1995-96.
The allocation of posts for children with special needs and improvements in the staffing schedule together with the decline in enrolments has helped to ensure that the overall pupil-teacher ratio in primary schools has improved substantially in recent years, down from 21.7 in the 1997-98 school year to 19.0 in the 2001-2002 school year.
An Agreed Programme for Government contains a commitment to continue to reduce the pupil teacher ratio in our schools, to progressively introduce maximum class size guidelines which will ensure that the average size of classes for children in junior classes will be below international best practice guidelines of 20:1 and to implement changes to retention and support policies which will assist schools in areas of significant disadvantage to recruit and retain teachers.
Nowhere has this Government's commitment to the primary system been more evident than in its response to children with special educational needs. I am proud to have been a member of the Government which, in 1998, took the unprecedented decision that all children with special needs in the primary system should henceforth be entitled to an automatic response to their needs, irrespective of their level of need or location. This decision has had a profound impact across the spectrum of special needs. It has resulted in unprecedented levels of investment in special education services and has laid the basis for major advances in the quality of the State's response to this most deserving group.
The impact of this decision and the present Government's ongoing commitment to the special needs area are reflected in the fact that the number of special resource teachers supporting children with special needs in ordinary primary schools will have grown from about 100 at the end of 1998 to more than 2,200 by the end of this year. In addition, the number of special needs assistants in the primary system will have grown from some 300 to 3,800 full-time and a further 1,000 part-time assistants in the same period.
These figures represent real and substantial growth in services. They represent the welcome reality that children assessed as requiring such services now have ready access to special teachers and special needs assistants dedicated to ensuring they gain maximum benefit from the education system.
That is only part of what is being achieved. Right across the spectrum of special needs investment in support services is now at unprecedented levels. For example, since 1998 the number of learning support, remedial, teachers has increased from 1,302 to 1,531. Investment in part-time tuition services for children with special needs will have increased from just over €5 million to a funding allocation of €19 million for the coming year.
Some €43 million is allocated to the special school transport service and €4.4 million is provided for the appointment of escorts on special school transport services. I should add also that funding for special equipment for children with special needs has risen from €635,000 to €3.2 million.
In addition to increasing investment in services at school level, it is equally important that the necessary legislative and structural arrangements are put in place to ensure that services can be delivered in an effective and efficient manner which meets the needs of parents and other service users. Two key developments in this regard are currently receiving priority attention in my Department. The first of these relates to the establishment of the National Council for Special Education. The council will have two key functions. It will carry out research and provide expert advice to the Minister on special education issues. It will also ensure the co-ordinated delivery of a comprehensive range of special education services at local and national level for persons with disabilities. A chief executive has already been appointed to the council and it is intended that the council will be vested by the end of March 2003.
I intend bringing forward legislation as soon as possible to clarify and confirm the rights and entitlements of persons with disabilities to an education service and to put in place the necessary framework to deliver the required services. This legislation will be based on the Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill, which was published shortly before the dissolution of the last Dáil and which has since been the subject of ongoing consultations between my Department and interested parties. I intend to advance this legislation as speedily as possible with a view to having it enacted before the summer recess.
Since my appointment as Minister for Education and Science, I have made it clear that assisting the most disadvantaged people in the educational system is my top priority. Consequently, during my negotiations with regard to the 2003 Estimates, at a time when prudent decisions were needed to protect the gains of recent years, I decided that priority would be afforded to specific targeted programmes for tackling education disadvantage, and for primary and post-primary education. I can assure the House that this is a direction that I am determined to progress with vigour and determination during my term in office as Minister.
The level of investment provided to date, and for next year, will ensure that we make further progress in providing resource teachers and special needs assistants in primary schools. There will also be increased provision for school retention initiatives generally, including the school completion programme, which involves in excess of 370 primary and post-primary schools in 80 clusters with a budget in 2003 of some €23 million – up from €15.4 million in 2002.
The Giving Children an Even Break programme applies to 2,320 primary schools and involves the appointment of over 200 additional teachers to ensure that there will be a maximum class size of 20 in junior classes in those disadvantaged schools with the highest proportion of disadvantaged pupils. The expenditure for this programme combined with the resources dedicated to the Breaking the Cycle project, the support teacher project and the disadvantaged areas scheme will be over €36.7 million in 2003.
There will be continued support for the home/school/community liaison service in all primary and second level schools with designated disadvantaged area status in addition to a wide range of other supports including those for Traveller children, children of non-nationals and other vulnerable groups.
I turn now to the area of school buildings. I assure the House that the programme of capital investment in the primary sector will continue. Since 1997, the Government has invested €600 million in the capital programme at primary level. For 2003, the allocation of €147 million will enable me to consolidate the very considerable progress that has been made over the last several years although, in view of current economic realities and the tightening of the financial position, the rate of progress in 2003 will inevitably be somewhat slower than I would have liked.
As a result of historic under investment, especially during the term of office of the rainbow coalition, a significant number of schools require investment in extensions and refurbishment while new schools are also needed in developing areas. Also, with the increased numbers of teachers, resource teachers, special needs assistants, etc., there is need for extra space in primary schools.
As a result of the Government's ongoing commitment to funding educational infrastructure, in excess of 120 major capital projects in the primary sector have recently been completed or are currently under construction. Many of these projects will continue in construction into 2003. In addition, this year a further 1,700 schools received grant aid for significant improvement works while each of the 3,300 primary schools received a devolved capital grant. This devolved grant empowers schools to deal directly with problems such as hand washing/drying facilities, heating and replacement of windows and doors without any need to get approval from my Department. The vast majority of schools now deal with these minor works themselves and do so very effectively.
I want to dispel a misunderstanding that has arisen in regard to the 400 major primary school projects in architectural planning that are listed on my Department's website. These projects were not included in the 2002 construction programme. Because they are major projects, they have to go through a detailed process of architectural planning which can take a considerable period of time to complete. The financial commitments to be met from building projects already in construction is also an important factor in determining the number of projects that may proceed at any given time. It is my Department's intention to release the projects in architectural planning to construction on a phased basis over a number of years, with due regard to the availability of capital funding.
Despite the increase in the level of funding over the last several years, there is an historical deficit. It is not realistic to expect that all the problems relating to school accommodation can be addressed immediately. The Government remains committed to continuing the work that it has started and to consolidating the substantial progress already made so that it may ensure that the needs of schools throughout the country are met over time. The process of investment in educational infrastructure begun by the previous Government will be continued as outlined in An Agreed Programme for Government.
I will look closely at the potential for using PPP mechanisms and at the concept advanced in An Agreed Programme for Government of a multiannual schools' modernisation fund to be financed through the national development finance agency. I intend publishing my expenditure proposals for primary school buildings in the new year. My Department's website will be updated at regular intervals from that point on.
In 1963 John F. Kennedy addressed us in this House and spoke about the problems of the world never being solved by sceptics or cynics whose horizons are limited. Today, those comments seem appropriate to a Fine Gael Party that could not bring itself to recognise the broad success of our primary education system. Worse still, it cannot manage a constructive suggestion among its 31 Deputies.
The quality of our primary education system, and this Government's determination to continuously improve all aspects of the system, will ensure that even more of our children will prosper in primary education. I am proud to be a member of a Government that has prioritised and invested extensively in education at this level. As Minister for Education and Science, it is my intention to continue to build on the progress which we have already made.
I commend our amendment to the House.
I read through the Opposition motion in detail. It does not reflect well on the Opposition Members who proposed it nor does it reflect a need for parliamentary scrutiny of all debate here, particularly in regard to education. I was pleased to hear the Minister's point by point rebuttal of the Opposition's case. It must now realise that it has a weak case. I have yet to hear any Opposition Deputy put forward positive alternatives.
I have 30 years service at primary school level and since 1985 I have had some responsibility for policy at post-primary level. I also spent some years on policy making at third level and have been involved in educational research. I have spent all my teaching career teaching in a disadvantaged area. Since the last Administration came to power in 1997 there has been a remarkable improvement in the level of resourcing of education, particularly at primary and post-primary level. I recall when education was governed by a Department of Education rule book which was updated annually by circular letter. The previous Government took the situation in hand, after many requests from many teachers' congresses, by bringing in an Education Act which now forms the firm foundation for an education system which is growing exponentially. However, that Act must be matched by a commitment of resources. I am very confident in that regard and very happy with the level of resources provided to education at all levels since my party came into Government in 1997. I also acknowledge that previous Governments made attempts to resource education.
One of the problems in education over many years has been the lack of coherent planning. I welcome the fact that the present Minister for Education and Science and his two immediate predecessors have embarked on a coherent plan, focusing rightly on primary education and educational disadvantage. It is a sweeping generalisation to say that Irish schools have the largest classes and the least back-up services in western Europe. That assertion simply does not stand up. It is true that there are areas where, due to lack of co-ordination between local authorities and management bodies, there has not been sufficient planning for school buildings. Undoubtedly, there are large classes in those areas. However, there are other areas where class sizes are 20 and below. One sometimes wonders what is the optimum class size. When I started teaching, I had a class of 57 boys in third class and I do not pretend it was an easy or effective situation. I also taught a mixed sixth class of only 16 pupils but I believe my teaching was far more effective in classes with slightly larger numbers. I suggest there is an optimum number of approximately 20 at which teaching is more effective and the children interact with each other.
In relation to back-up services, the national psychological service is still inadequate but it is building. There are problems with the National Education Welfare Board but it is in operation. I welcome the Minister's comments about a council for special education. Following all the discussion of recent years on special education, I commend the Minister for taking action. Twenty eight percent of children in Irish schools have special needs. Unfortunately, for a long time, there was no way of assessing children with special needs. I recall a time when one almost had to go on bended knee to the Department of Education for the establishment of a special class in a parish, let alone a school. We have come a long way and I commend the Minister, his predecessors and key Department officials for the manner in which they have moved forward.
There are areas, such as autism, which are not yet adequately addressed. Integration of children with physical disability is progressing. The Minister cited the number of classroom assistants, resource teachers and other staff who have been made available. Although the numbers are quite large, they need to be increased. While this year's Estimates show many minus figures, there is a significant increase for resource teachers and special assistants – of the order of 98% if I recall correctly.
With regard to the embargo on public service recruitment, I recall when primary teacher training was a two year programme. Thankfully, there is now a more enlightened approach and that needs to continue, with graduate entry to the profession at primary level and modular and weekend courses. Those developments need to be further expedited. As a result of the increasing number of non-national students in many of our schools, it is time to look at recognition of teachers trained in other EU member states and even outside of the EU, for reasons of language and other very good reasons. The number of teachers trained and on stream will more than counteract the demographic changes, which are actually levelling off, and will counterbalance the number of teachers retiring. We have a blip situation currently with regard to the number of primary teachers retiring. That arises from a decision taken 30 or 40 years ago to reduce the number of teachers in training.
That part of the Opposition motion which, "deplores the lack of Government commitment to tackle educational disadvantage," is simply not credible, having regard to the provisions which the Minister listed in his statement.
Is the Deputy aware of the number of parents who had to go to court regarding rights for their children with special needs?
Yes. The Minister addressed that issue in his intervention tonight. With due respect to the Deputy's point, one could count with the fingers on two hands the number of parents who had to take that course. Educational disadvantage in this context relates to economic and social disadvantage. I realise there are other areas of disadvantage which also need to be addressed. I commend the former Minister and former Deputy Niamh Breathnach for her initiative on the Early Start programme, which has been built on by this Government. The Breaking the Cycle and Stay in School retention programmes are also making a huge impact and there are excellent pilot initiatives in many areas of the country, including one in Waterford underpinned by voluntary effort and one in central Dublin where religious orders and the local community have come together. There are clusters of schools throughout the country which are benefiting from such initiatives.
I was involved in the early stages of research into reading standards in this country in 1967. At that time, nine year old students were regarded as being four years behind their counterparts in the UK in terms of reading standards, whereas we are now ahead as, indeed, we should be. That situation did not come about easily. It is due to such factors as the library initiatives and the Read Write Now initiative for parents. I do not pretend that we should be complacent about the level of resources being committed to education. However, it is wrong to decry the initiatives which have been taken and pretend nothing is happening in the area of educational disadvantage. It is a long time since the Van Lear foundation funded the Rutland Street project in the inner city in the late 1960s and early 1970s. People tend to forget the progress made in that regard.
The Opposition motion also speaks of, "being appalled by the thousands of pupils and teachers who are forced to work in poor conditions." I often wonder why boards of management allow their schools to deteriorate even though funding has been available through the devolved capital grants programme. In the 1970s, as I recall it, one could paint the outside of a school every seven years and the inside every ten years. That provision lapsed as, regrettably, did many other provisions. More recently, Ministers for Education and Science, including Deputies Martin and Woods, and now Deputy Dempsey, have developed the idea of giving money to boards of management to ensure that schools are not left unheated, rat infested or with damaged windows. In my constituency, there are small schools and large ones, old schools and new. Where there is a proactive board of management, working constructively with the principal, the parents association and the local community, there is an unparalleled programme in progress. In that regard, my constituency is in no way unique. There is a €1.5 million programme of refurbishment under way in my local school which was built to very poor standards in 1973. It now needs an apex roof, new windows, double glazing and proper toilets, all of which are now being provided.
Under the schools IT programme, every school, disadvantaged or otherwise, is connected to the Internet, involving a huge investment at primary and post-primary levels. We tend to be amnesiac in our comments on the quality of our education. The Opposition motion also alleges the Government has cut the budget for primary school buildings by almost €70 million. Deputies opposite know the stages through which we have to go to get approval for a school building. My school was built in a quarry because it was the only place left after the builders moved out. This is an example of particularly bad planning, but it was not unusual.
I commend the Minister and his predecessors for the Commission on School Accommodation and Planning because we must have a focused, coherent plan. I welcome the listing of projects on the Department's website so that people know exactly where their school is in the queue. A Deputy might get kudos for telling constituents their school is top of the list but it also means another school has gone down the list. This system gives some objectivity to the system. I commend the amendment to the House.
I wish to share my time with Deputies Crowe, Harkin, Finian McGrath and Cowley. I heard a comment earlier in the debate that there could be an optimum size for classes, for example 20 pupils, in which to best teach average pupils from an average background. I hope the Minister and Deputies agree that students suffering from learning disabilities need as much focused support as possible. While I agree with the sentiments expressed by the Government and take on board the Minister's commitment to education, there is a collective Cabinet responsibility to ensure that there is sufficient investment in education. Unfortunately, this has not been the case. In this context, I support the motion tabled by Fine Gael which notes, for example, that Irish schools have some of the largest class sizes and fewest back-up services in western Europe.
Up to recently, more than 400 schools were listed as being at architectural planning stage and remain as such. In my constituency, this applies to Scoil Bhríde, Palmerstown; St. Thomas's Junior School in Esker, Lucan; St. Mary's Junior and Senior Schools in Rowlagh, Clondalkin and St. Bernadette's Junior and Senior Schools in Quarryvale which were listed as being at architectural planning stage in April and remain at that stage. As the Minister said, in many cases the term architectural planning represents a holding phase. Many schools are in need of upgrading, refurbishment or new buildings. The devolved capital grants programme allows some leeway but there are some boards and principals allowing their schools to fall into disrepair in the hope it will speed up a new school building project. As the Minister has stated, that will not work.
This budget shows that not enough is focused on the education sector. If we want disadvantaged children to have the opportunity to go on to second and third level education and contribute to the country economically – which is the only way Ministers seem to understand – the schools need to have the investment from an early stage. We need more investment in breakfast clubs. I heard a Fianna Fáil Senator on "The Vincent Browne Show" last night say her children do not eat the food available in the school. She asked why the food should be provided at all, but for many children from disadvantaged areas, a proper breakfast is the only meal they eat and anything that can be done to continue that and the other incentives the Minister has suggested for teachers in disadvantaged areas is welcome. Some work has been done but there is a great deal more to be done.
Some 90% of crime in Dublin is, in some way, drug related. However, a heroin addict from Foxrock is less likely to engage in anti-social behaviour to pay for the habit than one from a disadvantaged area. Breaking the cycle early is of the utmost importance because a heroin addict from a disadvantaged area is more likely to get caught up in the poverty cycle and go to prison. Friends, colleagues and political associates of mine have all seen pupils at the age of seven whom they can pinpoint as ending up in prison. That is not good enough at such a young age.
Education and welfare officers, making sure teachers give proper attention and providing food for children requires investment but the cost of a prison space is greater to the economy than the cost of breaking the cycle at an early stage. I implore the Minister to ask the Minister for Finance to give more emergency funding to schools building projects and other projects that are sorely necessary.
I agree with the Minister's statement regarding the historic under investment in the education system. Successive Administrations have left us with the problem and I do not blame it all on the current Minister. Like anyone listening at home, when Ministers talk in terms of remaining committed to solving something, I worry that we are hearing the usual political speak.
OECD figures suggest that we have the worst pupil-teacher ratio in Europe and are among the bottom seven countries on pupil spending. At a recent INTO conference, Deputy Woods, the previous Minister for Education and Science, spoke about the 3,200 schools which are unsafe, posing a safety risk to pupils and staff. We all know schools with asbestos, where roofs are falling in or where teachers are trying to teach in corridors and I know of kids that have spent the entire of primary school in prefabs. The system is wrong and needs to be addressed. As Deputy Gogarty said, there must be collective responsibility. There was an opportunity in the budget to invest more in education, health or housing but the decision was made that the less well off would suffer. School offers children the opportunity to break out of the cycle of poverty but resources are needed in the schools and it is not forthcoming.
We have the overcrowded classrooms, yet the Government has indicated there will be an embargo on teachers which will cause further difficulties. We admit that 3,200 schools are unsafe and unhealthy yet the Government is cutting back on the programme of building and refurbishment. It is not right for Members on the Government side to be saying, "Things are great and we will be investing in this," because we are tinkering with the system and are not coming to terms with the problem. Children are going to school hungry but when they get to school the building should be warm and safe, with no danger of the roof collapsing. We cannot be sure that will not happen, however, because such unsafe schools exist. The Minister is possibly doing his best to resolve the situation but more investment is required. That investment has not been forthcoming from the Minister for Finance and things will get worse rather than better. Government Deputies may put forward positive arguments but they know that primary school children are suffering in their constituencies.
The decision by the Government to cut funding for primary school building in the budget by €70 million for 2003 and 2004, has caused a great deal of anger among many parents.
Acting Chairman
May I mention that a number of people are sharing time with the Deputy, including Deputies Cowley and Finian McGrath?
Yes.
Acting Chairman
There are ten minutes in total.
Like other Deputies, I attended many pre-election meetings where parents, teachers and school boards of management put forward strong arguments, and presented us with concrete evidence, as to why their local schools should receive money for refurbishment and upgrading. These people had lobbied for years while their children and teachers had to put up with substandard facilities and overcrowding. These conditions were totally inappropriate in a country that was supposed to be experiencing the effects of the Celtic tiger economy. In many cases the same people had been fund-raising in order to provide basic equipment, including sports facilities.
In my own constituency, many schools have been disappointed when it came to funding. I will not go through the entire list of schools affected because it is too long, but I would like to mention a few examples. Huge efforts have been made by the local community to try to get Calry national school upgraded. With other public representatives, I attended meetings before the general election, yet the school is not on the list. The same situation pertains to Brockley national school in Coolaney.
Prior to the election a certain Government Minister visited Ard Cairn national school in Riverstown and was pursued by photographers in a blaze of glory. Yet, those children are still sitting in substandard classrooms and there is no sight of any progress on the horizon.
At a public meeting before the election, promises were made by a Deputy that Mohill national school would see work on the ground before Christmas, yet there has been no progress. The school has a leaking roof, cracks in the walls, and toilets that remain unchanged since the 1940s. Children are experiencing terrible conditions in Cornagee national school outside Dowra in Ballinaglera, and no progress has been made there either.
Since last week's budget, I have listened to various Government Deputies lecturing us about taking the pain associated with cutbacks. I have a suggestion to make in this regard, however. The Minister for Finance should divert some of the money he is putting into the national pension fund to primary school infrastructure. It might seem prudent to put money away for pension funds but I would question that because we do not have the same demographic time-bomb that exists elsewhere. In the United Kingdom and the rest of Europe one third of the population is over 50 and a quarter is under 20. We have the opposite situation here, however, so we do not have an ageing population. Instead we have a young, active, wealth-creating population. Our birth rate has increased enormously to 60,000 per year, while the mortality rate is only 30,000. Coupled with inward migration we now find ourselves in a very different situation to some years ago. Therefore, the Minister should reconsider putting huge sums of money into a pension fund. Why not invest in capital projects for the primary school sector? That would be a much wiser investment for the future.
As a teacher I commend the previous Government on the provision of resource teachers for children with special needs. That was a positive step but the current Minister should note that at least 10% to 20% of the present school population require learning support teachers. They are not getting them, however, and these children will fail without such provisions being made. I would ask the Minister to take this point into consideration during his term of office.
If one were to accept the wording of the 1916 Proclamation one would assume that the children of the nation would be treated equally. However, as in Orwell's Animal Farm, some children are treated more equally than others. It is a terrible indictment to hear Deputies describing the lack of primary school facilities in their own counties. This represents a terrible vista of neglect by successive Governments over the years, yet it looks like it is set to continue into the future. Since being elected to Dáil Éireann, I have tried to highlight the needs of schools in my area, and in particular the plight of those who must use these school buildings. There is an urgent need to repair, and in some cases, to replace schools. To say that there has been gross neglect of our national schools would be an understatement.
I wish to refer specifically to some of the schools affected. I have been highlighting the case of Cooneal school in north Mayo, near Ballina, which is in a terrible condition with dampness, unsafe electrical fittings and heating systems. The school has been blacklisted as one of the worst in the country and is in urgent need of repair. All sanitary accommodation is substandard and the windows and doors are in a state of decay. The electrical wiring is substandard and in a very dangerous condition. Dampness and wall cracks abound. This case is typical.
Despite the fact that I have raised the case of Cooneal school on a number of occasions my remarks have fallen on deaf ears. Although the school building project went to the architectural planning stage some years ago, nothing has happened. Similarly, in Drumslide school in Ballycroy, dampness and poor conditions generally pose a hazard for the pupils attending. They are babes in arms who have just left their mothers; they have delicate chests, yet they are subjected to dampness every day. That is not right from any point of view. If they lived in such conditions at home I would be making representations to have something done about the dampness, their frequent colds and the asthma they suffer. However, this is happening in our schools all the time. Our children have every right not to have their health jeopardised in this way while attending school. They spend a lot of time at school, particularly in the winter months when the weather is at its worst, including increased damp conditions which can promote coughs and colds. Children do not need conditions to be made worse by attending an unsafe school. A new school is urgently needed to replace Drumslide school in Ballycroy.
Scoil Íosa in Ballyhaunis, County Mayo – which was recently amalgamated – is a danger under the health and safety regulations. In my own village of Mulranney a terrapin school building is rotting away. A storm could easily blow the lot down on top of the young children. It has been repaired but a shell of plaster seems to be holding the structure together. The windows are in a terrible state but it would not be possible to repair them because they would fall apart if one even touched them. The school itself has a large crack running from the top of the building to the bottom, through which one can look outside. It lets in cold and damp, and while it lets in ventilation in the summer it is a health hazard in the winter. Teachers spend much time in the mornings mopping up rain water on the floor, rather than taking the roll call. Dampness and leaking roofs are to be found everywhere in the school.
Our young people are expected to use unsuitable schools, yet justice demands that they should enjoy warm and safe conditions. We demand safe conditions for people in the workplace, but what about our children? They are the most vulnerable of all and they should be entitled to attend safe schools at least. Crumbling schools and stop-gap pre-fabs are a damning indictment of the failure of successive Governments to invest adequately in our schools over the years. It is a gross understatement to say that these schools are past their best before date. It is a tragedy and a scandal that committed teachers, supportive parents and enthusiastic pupils are condemned to exist in such schools, which are hazardous. The Minister said he would like a transparent system where real need can be identified and prioritised. If the Minister wants clarity, he should come to Mayo and I will show him these schools, or rather crumbling, leaky, damp buildings which are more suitable as outhouses for cattle than for educating children.
I propose to share my time with Deputy Wall.
I congratulate my county colleague on his appointment as Minister for Education and Science and I hope he will bring about great change.
I am surprised that the Minister has complained about the tabling of the motion because many of his colleagues congratulated us on it and agreed it was a good idea to have a debate on education. It is important to use Private Members' time to discuss relevant issues. Until the Dáil is reformed it is our best chance of having a good debate on a subject and making our points. It is our job to mirror the thoughts of people on the ground on various issues. Deputy Enright's motion does that quite well in summing up some of the problems. I hope we will have a healthy debate and offer positive suggestions, although it has been claimed that we are not being positive.
We need to know where we are coming from in order to offer solutions. Parents are concerned about their children's health and education. Both are relevant to schools where minor problems could be fixed to improve the comfort of children at school. That is what parents are concerned about. The urgency about it is best summed up in some lists I have here. One refers to limited progress in a number of primary schools and consists of only two pages. Another refers to schools where progress is being made and consists of two sheets covering about 40 schools. However, the list of schools that are making no progress runs to 15 pages. There is, therefore, an urgent need to invest in primary education in particular and education in general.
The Minister was at the official opening of St. Oliver's Secondary School in Oldcastle during the week and gave a great speech on the future of education. It was wonderful to see what is happening there. Many of the children from first and second year were involved in sports, dancing and music. However, that involvement began at primary school and that is where it must start because primary school is the foundation of education. That is where we must invest in order to set children on the right road and give them the best chance but I fear we will slip up because of the problems in schools.
They are not the Minister's fault. He has been only seven or eight months in office. The problem is one of neglect over the past 20 or so years on the part of various Governments, although it is important to note too that Fianna Fáil was involved in Government for 18 years. There is a history of neglect right across the board and that is what we must address. Sadly, not enough money was provided to solve all the problems in the next year or two, and I am greatly concerned about what will happen in the succeeding years because predictions are bad for the next three years or so. It is time to look at new ways of raising finance to solve the problems. That is what the Minister is here to do. Deputy Enright is a young person who has plenty of ideas about education. We are here to impart those and mark the Government's card.
Finance is an issue in schools although not the only one. As this Government cannot provide the money to fix the schools, we need to find other ways of raising money. If we admit the funds are not there we can look at other alternatives. We have a great resource in all our communities in people who could actually build schools. Communities want to get involved. New public-private partnerships are involved in various projects. We should involve the local community in the areas affected. That is how schools were built hundreds of years ago. Everybody got together and contributed, but we are not giving people a chance to do that. Everyone pays tax and that is relayed back through the Department of Education and Science. Perhaps there might be a way to ring-fence some of that tax and put it into the local school where the benefits would be seen directly. Perhaps the Minister might consider approaching the Minister for Finance about that.
If people see their money going directly into their school they will want to be more involved, and schools could be built for half the price if they were built locally because there would be no red tape. The era of volunteers is slipping away fast, but this would mean people would be more involved in maintaining their school and keeping it clean, and the children attending it would have more interest in it. We must first admit we have many schools that need attention and then look at new ideas.
Children deserve to be given opportunities. As a councillor I had different types of offices and was often stuck in this or that corner of a room. Since I got my new office I am much happier going to work. It is much easier to work in a nice office that is clean, warm and comfortable. The same applies to children and schools. We should give them every opportunity and make school as comfortable as we can for them. They will then perform better in education. They will probably listen more carefully to the teacher and be more motivated. If the Minister's office was not nice he would not look forward to working in it. We owe it to our children to do the same for them.
The size of classes consisting of children of the same standard of education is a problem. I understand the Minister intends to try to reduce class sizes from 35 to 29. I am more concerned about classes comprising children of different levels. When I came through the school system our class, which was a big one of 45, held together. However, in many schools where the number of teachers is reduced, children at different levels of education are being grouped together and that does not really work. That is an area where we could make progress.
I want to see children getting the chances I got. The only problem I had with my education was having to spend four years in prefabricated buildings. In summer it was too warm; in winter it was too cold. If I wanted a day off I could complain that the school was not good enough. At many schools around the country there are four, five or six prefabricated buildings. This reduces the size of playgrounds. We need to move faster and address these issues. We need fresh thinking.
Another problem is shortage of teachers and controlling classes. There are two approaches we can adopt. We need to address the issue of dwindling respect for teachers. If we can restore that pupils will learn more. Providing a good school is part of that process.
Many people are willing to be involved in running schools and helping with sports. It is sad that nowadays because of the lack of a physical education curriculum in schools children of 9, 10 and 11 years of age do not react when a ball is thrown to them. In my parish, children of 10 years of age play football on the local football pitch and when a ball is kicked to them they do not know what to do. In terms of sport, children must start between the ages of five and nine years. Deputy Deenihan mentioned this last night. One must get children moving and thinking at that age so they will go on to greater things because sport is part of education. I hope we can develop this.
I thank Deputies English and Neville for sharing time with me.
Over the last two evenings the Minister has heard much about the capital aspect of the problems facing the primary education sector. Every Deputy spoke about his or her own area and I will be no different. Many schools in Kildare need new buildings and extensions to existing buildings. The needs of Castledermot, Ballyshannon, Nurney and Brannockstown are particularly urgent.
The Minister knows the problems and has set up a website to deal with queries. When a parent comes to a public representative we can tell that parent to look at the Department's website to see the status of his or her school. This is an advantage. When people see the position of their own school on the Department's list a momentum is created and the board of management and parents can combine to progress the application.
I ask the Minister to take note of a number of specific cases. I listened to Deputy Carey talking about what boards of management are entitled to do and should do. I challenge anyone to identify a better board of management than that of Scoil Mhíchil Naofa in Athy, yet the school's problems are such that the board is crying everywhere for help.
The school has a class for autistic children, who come from three different health board areas. Only one of the health boards provides a speech therapist. When she visits the class she deals only with the children from her own health board area and the children from the other two areas receive no therapy. I have asked parliamentary questions of the Ministers for Education and Science and Health and Children and I hope common sense will prevail and the problem will be resolved. I ask the Minister to ensure this problem is resolved and that all the autistic children in this class benefit from the services of a speech therapist.
An inspector from the Department visited the school and told the principal that the classroom in which the autistic children were being taught was a red alert area as far as the school's electrical system was concerned. This situation would not be acceptable in any part of the country, particularly when the children concerned are autistic and have problems in relating to the teacher and their special needs assistant. The Minister must look at this case.
In reply to my questions the Minister has said the board of management must deal with the matter. The board of management does not have the money to deal with it and it is not feasible for it to do it. I ask the Minister to look at these two cases and to see if they can be resolved.
I congratulate Deputy Enright on her initiative in raising this important issue. The question of investment in primary schools is of extreme concern. Promises were made – perhaps not overtly – to many schools during the general election campaign that they could expect the refurbishment or construction of their buildings.
St. Nicholas's primary school in Adare is situated in an old Augustinian abbey. The children are accommodated in a 16th century building and a pre-fab. In 1999 the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Martin, promised a new school for Adare. The children must use an outdoor toilet which is also used by some of the many tourists who visit Adare. There is concern about the safety of the children in those circumstances.
Scoil náisiúnta Dhrom Trasna in Abbeyfeale was a two teacher school in the 1980s. It is now a seven teacher school and in urgent need of extension. I know the Minister has examined this case but nothing is happening.
I am also particularly concerned about Pallaskenry national school, which requested an extension in 1995. The pre-fabs in this school are supported internally by scaffolding because otherwise the roof would fall on the children. In this day and age it is unacceptable that children have scaffolding throughout their classrooms and must cross the yard to use the toilet.
Kilfinane primary school in County Limerick was promised a new school some years ago but nothing is happening. I raised this case on two occasions on the Adjournment and was promised that something would be done. Recent Adjournment debates often do not refer to the matter raised in any case.
In Kilcolman refurbishment and the extension of two classrooms was promised. Will this happen? It is urgently needed. Gaelscoil Uí Dhuibhir in Newcastle West is in need of comprehensive refurbishment. This has been promised but nothing is happening. Christ the Saviour national school in Ballingarry needs a GP room, a library, a resource teacher's room, a principal's office, storage facilities and a multi-purpose room. We do not know when these will be provided. Promises have been made but the Minister refers queries to the website. St. James's national school, Cappagh, is also in need of an extension.
There has been no investment in Charleville Christian Brothers school in 40 years. Many children from Kilmallock and the surrounding area travel to this school. Three junior classes have been in pre-fabs for 15 years, the science laboratory is out-dated, there is no language laboratory, woodwork cannot be offered due to lack of facilities, there is no assembly hall or gym and there is a lack of space for physical activities.
There are difficulties with regard to learning support teachers. In Kilfinane one learning support teacher travels between five different schools. Similarly, Scoil Íde Naofa in Raheenagh is served by a learning support teacher who serves four other schools. The brevity of her visits has forced the school into prioritising literacy help for those in most need and children with numeracy learning needs are not catered for. Is it fair that children who have special needs are not catered for?
I asked the Minister last week to put on the record of the House the number of schools in my constituency which have applied for refurbishment grants. This simple question received a single line reply referring me to a website. I know how to access the website but I wanted the list of schools to be placed on the record of the House. The Minister avoided this by referring my query to the Department's website. Is this a fair way to answer a Deputy who wishes to place the needs of primary schools in County Limerick on the record of the House?
The Deputy could have read the names into the record, having got them from the website.
Any question can now be answered by referring to a website. I asked when something would happen and I was referred to a website where I was informed of the current situation. It is an insult to the House and an insult to me that the Minister was not prepared to place on the record of the House the names of the schools in my constituency requiring refurbishment.
Ministers think they can do what they like.
It is an insulting response, to be quite honest.
I apologise to the Deputy if he genuinely felt insulted.
Yes.
They are all genuine queries.
I accept the Minister's apology, but my objective was to put on the record of this House the names of the schools in need of refurbishment.
The Deputy can read them himself.
For goodness' sake.
The amendment to the motion before the House outlines the Government's excellent track record in increasing provision for primary education. Regardless of the views expressed by the Opposition in this regard, the advances made by the Government in providing for children in our primary schools cannot be denied. The advances have brought tangible benefits to children throughout the primary sector, especially those who have special educational needs and those who are most disadvantaged. The scale of additional resources, as well as their impact on class size and pupil-teacher ratios, bears this out. Some 2,900 additional teaching posts have been created in primary schools to reduce class sizes and to provide additional resources for children with special needs. The maximum class size has been reduced from 35 to 29 over the last five years and the overall pupil-teacher ratio in primary schools has decreased from nearly 22:1 in 1997 to 19:1 now.
The Government's commitment to the primary system has been demonstrated most graphically in its response to children with special educational needs. The 1998 decision that all children with special needs in the primary system should be entitled to an automatic response has transformed provision in this area. The Government has achieved significant increases in the numbers of special resource teachers, learning support teachers and special needs assistants employed in schools. These teachers are dedicated to ensuring that children with special educational needs gain the maximum benefit from education. We will continue to build on this progress through the establishment of a national council to deal with special education, the publication of legislation to clarify and confirm the rights and entitlements to an education service of persons with disabilities and the establishment of a framework to deliver the required services.
Social inclusion is a key Government priority and its approach to tackling educational disadvantage has been framed within the context of the national anti-poverty strategy. The approach is based on a continuum of provision, from early childhood through adulthood, with a focus on preventative strategies, targeting and integrated community responses. We have set challenging and ambitious targets under the key headings of school literacy, adult literacy and school retention, designed to bring about an education system that allows all citizens to realise their full potential. As a result of the high importance attached to tackling educational disadvantage, the Government provided for the establishment of a statutory committee on such disadvantage under the Education Act, 1998, to advise on policies and strategies to be adopted to identify and correct educational disadvantage. The committee brings together experts from across the community of education interests and will be an important resource in ensuring that progress is made in this area. I certainly dismiss, therefore, any notion that the Government lacks commitment to tackling educational disadvantage.
The level of investment provided for in the Estimates enables us to maintain existing services and to make progress in the primary and post-primary sectors. This will be done through increased provision for resource teachers and special needs assistants in primary schools and increased provision for school retention initiatives, including the school completion programme involving over 370 primary and post-primary schools in 82 clusters, with a 2003 budget of about €23 million, up from €15.4 million in 2002. The Giving Children an Even Break programme, which applies to 2,320 primary schools and involves the appointment of over 200 additional teachers, will ensure that maximum class sizes in junior classes in the disadvantaged schools with the highest proportion of disadvantaged pupils will be 20. Expenditure for this programme, combined with the resources dedicated to the Breaking the Cycle project, the support teacher project and the disadvantaged areas scheme, will be over €36.7 million in 2003. There will be continued support for the home, school and community liaison service in primary and second level schools with designated disadvantaged status.
In addition to these schemes and initiatives, there is a wide range of other supports including those for the children of Travellers, non-nationals and other vulnerable groups. I reiterate that the programme of capital investment in the primary sector will continue. Despite the huge increase in funding in recent years, there is a great level of demand due to an historical deficit. It is clear that all the problems relating to school accommodation cannot be addressed immediately, but the Government remains committed to continuing the work it has started and to consolidating the substantial progress made in meeting the needs of primary schools. The investment in educational infrastructure commenced during the previous Administration will be continued. The allocation of €147 million will enable the consolidation of the progress that has already been made.
The Government has massively improved the infrastructure, teaching resources and other services made available to primary schools. I assure the House that the Government is fully committed to continuing the enhancement of services in the primary sector and it will continue to do so, particularly for children with special educational needs and the most disadvantaged in society. I commend the amended motion to the House.
I would like to share time with Deputy Enright, with the agreement of the House.
As the future of Irish education is being debated in the House, I am disappointed that the Minister for Education and Science felt the need to be so defensive in his opening remarks. He accused Fine Gael of being negative, although I suppose he is entitled to be defensive in some respects. I commend, as others have done, the fantastic work done in our primary schools by teachers and others, but they need support. This is a competitive era in economic terms. In the 1960s, Fine Gael produced the Just Society document, which continues to be the basis for my party's policies to this day. I mention it because it recognised the importance of investment in education and many of the education initiatives of the 1960s sprung from the debate that took place as a result. I contend, however, that a new debate is needed – we need to debate the direction of this Government.
The report produced by the Conference of Religious of Ireland in response to last week's budget shows the great gap that exists between the rich and the poor in our society. The gap can be seen in our education system. Fine Gael is putting down a marker for the Minister and the Government by making clear that it will not allow any drift where education is concerned. My party insists that education should be resourced and funded in a suitable manner between now and the end of the Government's term in office. The Minister and his colleagues have said that they did certain things in the Government's first term, but that was because plenty of money was available in 1997 after the rainbow coalition left office. As someone said earlier, there was a crock of gold at the end of the rainbow. After five years of a Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats Administration, however, the public finances have run into major difficulties and many people are worried.
The gold is gone.
Much has been said in recent months about the Department of Education and Science's famous website. Deputies who have tabled questions seeking information for our constituents – parents, teachers and children – have been told to refer to the website. Why can the Department of Education and Science and the Minister not tell us, after all this time, when schools will be repaired or replaced? It is a simple request and taxpayers are entitled to a response to it. I am delighted that the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, has apologised to my colleague, Deputy Neville, and to the House for the appalling answers Deputies receive to parliamentary questions. It is an appalling slur on parliamentary democracy that a Minister will not give a proper and civilised answer to a simple question.
My colleagues have said that parents and teachers are working in very difficult conditions and they want to know when they will see improvements. The Minister has a duty to be in a position to tell the parents and students when this improvement can be carried out. It is a simple request. I am concerned about the state of the Department when it cannot even answer such a request. The Minister has his work cut out. He tells us that he will have this information available in detail by January. I welcome that. I look forward to it and support it. It is important for parents to get that information on time.
In the committee last week the Minister and I discussed support services and special needs education. He said that, in Ireland, 11% of students in primary education require support services and special needs education. He maintained that the level in Europe was 3%. He then indicated that there was something wrong here. There is certainly something strange. There are statistics and statistics, but why is there such a difference? Perhaps we are being very generous and that is as it should be if the need is there. Maybe there are different ways of measuring. Maybe it is catered for by health in some countries while it is education here, I do not know. Has there been a major leap or explosion or was there always a problem which was not addressed in the past. I welcome the Minister's commitment to research this area and find out the problem. The figure of 11% needing special education seems to be very high. Maybe it should be higher but it needs detailed investigation and support. I support anything the Minister does in this area.
The psychological services are another area where many children are waiting for assessment and help. A number of months ago I asked the Minister how many people were waiting and he was not able to tell me. He did not know and the national psychological service was not able to supply him with information on how many pupils are waiting for psychological assessment in school. How can you satisfy a need if you do not know the demand? I urge the Minster to ask his officials to find out the need. How many primary school children have psychologists on their waiting lists? It should be easy to find that out. When we know the problem we might be able to do something about it. I will be asking questions again in the next few months because it is a very serious issue. I know, as do my colleagues, that there are children awaiting psychological assessment who have been told that it will be a long time before they receive it. That is not good enough and we need to have facts and figures.
I do not accept the growing tendency on the Government side to blame boards of management. They are doing the best they can. If there are boards of management that are doing something wrong it should be sorted out. I do not accept Members on the Government side blaming them. Many of these people work in a voluntary capacity to better the schools. The Minister should not blame someone else for failings in the Department and the Government. It is not good enough. Let us stop doing that and commend members of boards of management who are working in a voluntary capacity for the good of the school, the pupils and the community.
Deputy Carey said that he could count on one hand the number of court cases taken. In 1998 there were 38 cases before the High Court relating to action on behalf of people diagnosed as autistic. The previous Government dragged parents of autistic children into court. That should stop. I invite the Minister to visit the CABAS school in Cork, if he has not done so already. It is an eye-opening experience and an excellent school. However, there is a fear that there will be cuts in services there.
Many of the schools that we are concerned about were built in the 1970s and contain asbestos. It will require much money and maintenance to upgrade them and I urge that this programme be speeded up. We must also ensure value for money. I do not think that the public private partnership will give this.
I thank all the Members for their contributions to this motion. The Minister made comments about the newer members of Fine Gael being led up the garden path by other members of the party. That should be refuted outright. Deputy Stanton and I set the education policy for Fine Gael. We make the decisions in consultation with our party. It is also wrong for the Minister to come into the House and criticise any Member for using Private Members' time to raise urgent and important issues. Unlike the Minister, we discuss the issues and try to raise them in the House. We do not run to the front pages of the national newspapers with kite-flying exercises concerning every issue in the Department of Education, as he is doing.
It is time that everyone here faced some facts. I do not deny the truth in some of what was said by the Government parties on education. There has been progress in some areas. We cannot use the phrase which was much used this year, a lot done. That would be exaggeration. It is more a case on the Government's side of picking out a few good bits of news and hoping to hide behind them. That will not work any more.
We heard much in the last two nights about pupil/teacher ratios, class sizes and statistics. I quoted statistics last night from the Department of Education and Science. They showed that 125,000 school children are in classes of 30 or more. One quarter of a million are in classes of between 20 and 29. Deputy Carey talked tonight about the optimum class size being 20 and we were doing well on that. Less than 20% of primary school children are in class sizes of fewer than 20 pupils. That is the reality.
Members of the Government parties clap themselves on the back for the provision of services to schools in disadvantaged areas and yet one of their first steps was to cut the schemes directed at disadvantage. The Minister's commitment was displayed by his actions. Every year 800 children leave school after their primary education. The Minister failed to increase the back-to-school allowance for under 12s as if they do not need the same clothes and shoes as children over that age.
Deputy Carey mentioned the national education welfare board. It exists but is not working yet. He mentioned children being assessed by NEPS and yet Deputy Stanton highlighted the delays and difficulties being experienced there. Deputy Carey used the phrase "all moving along". These schemes are moving as fast as traffic in Dublin on a Monday morning.
The Minister has ignored the massive increases in charges for insurance, heating oil and cleaning costs which schools will face because of the increase in VAT. Schools must fork out for these increases and there is no increase in funds for the day to day cost of running primary schools. No matter what area of primary education we wish to provide for, it requires proper and adequate facilities. I do not blame the Minister for that, it is the responsibility of successive administrations. We know who has been in Government for the longest time over the past number of years. Nobody expects every school to be completed overnight. What we do expect is a clear, coherent strategy for tackling the issue, with fairness and equity as the cornerstones. That is what we want and require. The expectation which was created in relation to school buildings was created by Members on the opposite benches during the general election. That is the reality.
The attitude of the Government to social and educational policy is to view it as a burden on the State's finances. It has failed to view education as a vital part of our infrastructure and feel it is better to invest in foreign stock markets than in our education system. We will all pay for this short-sighted attitude. Instead of a coherent and planned approach to education at all levels it is treated as if the three sections of primary, secondary and third level are totally alien to each other and not interconnected. The Minister tries to heap on charges in one area, like third level, as a way to pay for another area. This is not acceptable either. Article 42.4 of the Constitution requires the State to provide for free basic and elementary education for all of our children.
In last year's High Court judgment in Sinnott v. the Minister for Education and Science, which I know was overturned, but not on the grounds I am about to mention, Mr. Justice Barr said that education constituted giving each child such advice and instruction in teaching as would enable him or her to make the best possible use of his or her inherent and potential capabilities – physical, mental or moral. With class sizes way beyond what is required to help a child achieve his or her maximum potential, schools without physical education facilities, children squashed into over-crowded, damp classrooms, filthy toilets, leaking roofs, no facilities for specialist teachers to work from, by any standards the Minister has failed this test. I commend the motion to the House.
Amendment put.
Tá
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Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Andrews, Barry.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Blaney, Niall.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Seamus.Browne, John.Callanan, Joe.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Carty, John.Cassidy, Donie.Collins, Michael.Coughlan, Mary.Cregan, John.Cullen, Martin.Curran, John.Davern, Noel.de Valera, Síle.Dempsey, Noel.Dempsey, Tony.Dennehy, John.Devins, Jimmy.Ellis, John.Finneran, Michael.Fitzpatrick, Dermot.Fleming, Seán.Gallagher, Pat The Cope.Glennon, Jim.Grealish, Noel.Hanafin, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Hoctor, Máire.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia. |
Kelleher, Billy.Kelly, Peter.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Seamus.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McDaid, James.McDowell, Michael.McEllistrim, Thomas.McGuinness, John.Martin, Micheál.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Mulcahy, Michael.Nolan, M.J.Ó Cuív, Éamon.Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.O'Connor, Charlie.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donnell, Liz.O'Donoghue, John.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Malley, Fiona.O'Malley, Tim.Parlon, Tom.Power, Peter.Power, Seán.Sexton, Mae.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Walsh, Joe.Wilkinson, Ollie.Woods, Michael.Wright, G.V. |
Níl
|
Allen, Bernard.Boyle, Dan.Broughan, Thomas P.Bruton, Richard.Burton, Joan.Connolly, Paudge.Costello, Joe.Cowley, Jerry.Crawford, Seymour.Cuffe, Ciarán.Deasy, John.Deenihan, Jimmy.Durkan, Bernard J.English, Damien. |
Enright, Olwyn.Ferris, Martin.Gilmore, Eamon.Gogarty, Paul.Harkin, Marian.Hayes, Tom.Healy, Seamus.Higgins, Joe.Higgins, Michael D.Hogan, Phil.Howlin, Brendan.Kehoe, Paul.Lynch, Kathleen. McCormack, Padraic. |
Níl–continued
|
McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Finian.McGrath, Paul.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Olivia.Morgan, Arthur.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.O'Dowd, Fergus.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Pattison, Seamus. |
Penrose, Willie.Perry, John.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Eamon.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Sherlock, Joe.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Upton, Mary.Wall, Jack. |
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hanafin and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Durkan and Stagg.
Amendment declared carried.
Question put: "That the motion, as amended, be agreed to."
Tá
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Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Andrews, Barry.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Blaney, Niall.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Seamus.Browne, John.Callanan, Joe.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Carty, John.Cassidy, Donie.Collins, Michael.Coughlan, Mary.Cregan, John.Cullen, Martin.Curran, John.Davern, Noel.de Valera, Síle.Dempsey, Noel.Dempsey, Tony.Dennehy, John.Devins, Jimmy.Ellis, John.Finneran, Michael.Fitzpatrick, Dermot.Fleming, Seán.Gallagher, Pat The Cope.Glennon, Jim.Grealish, Noel.Hanafin, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Hoctor, Máire.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia. |
Kelleher, Billy.Kelly, Peter.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Seamus.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McDaid, James.McDowell, Michael.McEllistrim, Thomas.McGuinness, John.Martin, Micheál.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Mulcahy, Michael.Nolan, M.J.Ó Cuív, Éamon.Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.O'Connor, Charlie.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donnell, Liz.O'Donoghue, John.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Malley, Fiona.O'Malley, Tim.Parlon, Tom.Power, Peter.Power, Seán.Sexton, Mae.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Walsh, Joe.Wilkinson, Ollie.Woods, Michael.Wright, G.V. |
Níl
|
Allen, Bernard.Boyle, Dan.Broughan, Thomas P..Bruton, Richard.Burton, Joan.Connolly, Paudge.Costello, Joe.Cowley, Jerry.Crawford, Seymour. |
Cuffe, Ciarán.Deasy, John.Deenihan, Jimmy.Durkan, Bernard J..English, Damien.Enright, Olwyn.Ferris, Martin.Gilmore, Eamon. Gogarty, Paul. |
Níl–continued
|
Harkin, Marian.Hayes, Tom.Healy, Seamus.Higgins, Joe.Higgins, Michael D.Hogan, Phil.Howlin, Brendan.Kehoe, Paul.Lynch, Kathleen.McCormack, Padraic.McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Finian.McGrath, Paul.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Olivia.Morgan, Arthur.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín. |
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.O'Dowd, Fergus.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Pattison, Seamus.Penrose, Willie.Perry, John.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Eamon.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Sherlock, Joe.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Upton, Mary.Wall, Jack. |
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hanafin and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Durkan and Stagg.
Question declared carried.