Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
Question:97 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach the main findings of the preliminary report of the last census; and when the full report will be published. [22439/02]
Ceisteanna – Questions. - Census Findings.
Joe Higgins
Question:98 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the main findings of the preliminary report on the 2002 census. [23557/02]
Trevor Sargent
Question:99 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the preliminary report of the 2002 census; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2419/03]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 97 to 99, inclusive, together.
The census 2002 preliminary report, based on summary information assembled during the field-work, was published on 24 July 2002. The main finding of the preliminary report was that the population increased by over 290,000 persons between 1996 and 2002 to reach its highest level since 1871. The preliminary total for the population enumerated on census night, 28 April 2002, was 3,917,336 persons compared with 3,626,087 in April 1996, representing an increase of 8% in six years.
The populations of Kildare and Meath, with increases of over 29,003 and over 24,204, respectively, both increased by over a fifth between 1996 and 2002. Other Leinster counties which showed large increases were Westmeath with an increase of 13.8%, Wexford with an increase of 11.7%, Laois with an increase of 10.9%, Louth with an increase of 10.5% and Carlow with an increase of 10.2%. Overall, the increase in the population of Dublin was 6.1%, which was somewhat lower than for the State as a whole. Cork city was the only administrative county in the State to register a population decline while for the first time on record the population of Leitrim has shown an increase with figures up 3% since 1996.
The CSO is committed to finalising the data capture phase of the census processing by the end of April this year and this work is proceeding on schedule. Following this it is planned to release the definitive demographic results from the census by the middle of 2003 and to follow this up with the remaining socio-economic results towards the latter part of the year.
I note the Minister of State did not refer to Cavan and Monaghan in the list of counties she mentioned. Does she agree that one of the most remarkable findings of the census is that for the first time ever net immigration into this State is higher than the natural increase in population? Will she join me in welcoming this development and welcoming people of diverse origins to our country? Will she also join me in welcoming the multi-cultural Ireland that this is creating and the major contribution immigrant communities and workers are making to the Irish economy?
Does the Minister of State recognise that Government policy on immigration and asylum is having a negative consequence? Does she agree that non-EU immigrants need to be given the right to work and the dignity of the right to work—
The Deputy is straying well outside the remit of the questions before us, which are merely statistical.
I am dealing with the results of the census and the full report.
It might be more appropriate to table questions on the matters the Deputy is raising because the questions before us are purely statistical.
That is not the interpretation I would have taken in regard to them. The census offered a view and an opportunity for people to describe exactly their places of origin and their current status. I am dealing with places of origin and people's current status and with what I view as the shameful fact that people in our jurisdiction are denied the dignity of work while their papers—
The Deputy is making a statement; he is not even asking a question.
I have been asking questions of the Minister of State. Does she agree that it would be desirable that all people in our communities would be afforded the dignity of work while their papers or whatever are being processed and that they would not be placed under what I regard as the chattel system which currently operates where their permits are held by employers rather than by the people themselves?
The Deputy will be interested to know that the census figures for Cavan and Monaghan show an increase of 6.6% and 2.8%, respectively. The Deputy will also have received from me a copy of the preliminary report, which I circulated to all Members knowing that they might have more than a passing interest in the figures in their areas.
It is to be welcomed that Government policy has ensured that young people who left the country ten years ago were able to return and find employment, that the employment situation is such that people of all nationalities are able to obtain employment in Ireland, that investors are coming to the country and that there is a net increase in population. It is to the credit of Government policies in education and investment in the economy that we have witnessed an increase in population.
It is also to be welcomed that we are witnessing greater cultural diversity. I visited a school last year in which I was welcomed in 11 different languages by the children. That is something from which we can all benefit.
Does the Minister of State agree it is clear that there is a pattern in the Central Statistics Office figures she mentioned for counties, be they Cavan, Monaghan, Carlow or my area of Fingal, that points to an alarming and growing trend of sucking the population towards the centre, almost like a plug hole for the country, and that the congestion in which we are drowning in the Dublin region is counter-balanced by the denuding of other areas where the population is declining and infrastructure wanting? Will the Minister of State take lessons from the CSO figures in the context of the national development plan or the spatial strategy which still seem to pander to the demand for greater infrastructure in the eastern region to try to cope with the enormous burden of congestion in the area? Does the Minister of State see lessons for other Departments, especially the Department of Transport, regarding the additional runway at Dublin Airport when other airports are in need of traffic and Dublin Airport is oversubscribed?
What does the Government propose to do in response to these CSO figures? Will the 40% cut in the CSO spending allocation hinder the work of the agency, especially the national employment survey, over which I understand a question mark hangs because of the cutbacks?
The funding of the CSO is the subject of questions which will be taken shortly. The work of the agency will not be hindered but I will give greater detail later.
What the Deputy said about rural areas and other counties outside Dublin is untrue. If he examines the figures I circulated to him, he will see there has been an increase in population in every county and the only area which showed a decrease—
Am I supposed to have figures at this point?
Yes. I circulated them to every Deputy as soon as they were published. They were left in Deputies' pigeonholes.
How long ago was that?
We will send the Deputy another copy.
I am sure the Deputy will be able to obtain the figures free of charge on the worldwide web because the CSO has made all its figures available on it.
Not under the Freedom of Information Act.
The published document is available to the public for €15. I already made a copy available to the Deputy.
It is important to point out regarding what he said about peripheral regions that Kerry saw an increase in population of 5%, Donegal 5.7% and Mayo 5.3%. It is such figures that feed into policies such as the spatial strategy, infrastructure and so on to ensure we encourage people to continue to live or to come to live in these areas—
The figures are below the national average.
—and attract investment to them.
I join with Deputy Ó Caoláin in what he said about welcoming immigrants. It would help if we extended that welcome to those immigrants who arrived here hundreds of years ago and do not share in the Nationalist tradition.
Does the Minister of State agree it is clear from the statistics that it would be unthinkable to proceed with local elections next year based on the existing boundaries?
What we do not yet have from the Central Statistics Office is a breakdown by area. We have the preliminary report of the overall figures. This July will see the publication of two tables which will be of particular benefit in the electoral process. One will show males and females in each constituency, as defined in the Electoral (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1998, for the purposes of elections to Dáil Éireann. In July we will have the table showing what each constituency has by way of population. We will also have a table showing what we have in each county and city local electoral area. Those figures will only become available in July and it is important they are used to the best advantage in planning for all elections.
Based on the reply given, what are the implications of the figures? What action does the Department of the Taoiseach intend to take, for example, on transport and employment? As already mentioned by Deputy Gay Mitchell what are the electoral repercussions? When will decisions be taken arising from figures that are still to emerge in July or thereafter? When will action be taken to provide for the now clear implications in the figures?
As I have already stated, where the population lives has a bearing on investment, infrastructure, etc. I am sure all Ministers take it into account when planning. A particular note would be taken of areas that need investment to encourage further employment. It would also have a bearing on the siting of educational institutions and as mentioned earlier, infrastructure. It would be premature at this stage to decide what would happen on electoral boundaries. However, when the figures become available in July decisions on that will have to be made.
Will no decisions be made before that?
Based on the figures for the Cork County Borough administrative area, the Government needs to be proactive in having a realistic boundary for Cork city. What has happened in Cork city is a classic case of the doughnut effect. The capacity to grow in Cork city no longer exists because there is no building land available. Growth has been considerable on the outskirts of Cork city. The boundaries have not changed since 1965. The population has been growing exponentially in Carrigaline, Ballincollig, Douglas, Grange, Frankfield and Rochestown, and on the north side in Glanmire and in Blarney. The Government needs to recognise this by giving Cork city proper boundaries beyond which it cannot grow in the future.
Was the Minister of State surprised that Cork city as Ireland's second largest city was the only area in the country that saw a decrease in population? People in Cork were not surprised at that, partly as a result of what Deputy Boyle has said. Does the Government intend to prioritise investment in Cork city in order to rejuvenate the city centre? This is clearly needed to get people moving back into city living as opposed to having a policy that encourages the doughnut effect of people living in large suburban housing estates.
I was not half as surprised at the declining figures for Cork City as was my colleague, the Minister for Health and Children. The population of the overall Cork area has increased by 6.6%. I was perhaps more interested in my constituency area whose population only increased by 0.7%. I do not hear anybody suggesting there should be greater investment there. Everybody seems to believe the Minister of State with responsibility for the CSO, which means statistics, is in charge of everything. Most of the items about which I have been asked do not come within my remit. Suffice it to say that the use of statistics is central to the deliberations on Government policy.
Would the Minister not accept the statistics are not a proper reflection of the reality? The boundary of Cork city needs to be reconsidered for the purposes of future information gathering.
According to the statistics the population of Drogheda has grown by 15.9% since the last census and is now the largest town in the north east and not just in County Louth. Given that the Government has left Drogheda out of the national spatial strategy does the Minister not think it is time to establish a commission to look at the future of local government control in Drogheda? In view of the fact that Drogheda is now planning for a population of 100,000 people, will the Government designate Drogheda a city and include it in the national spatial strategy?
What is particularly interesting in the case of Drogheda is the population shift in some areas. For instance, there has been an increase of 66.9% in the population of St. Mary's. I am sure the local council—
With respect, the population of every ward in the town has increased.
Allow the Minister to proceed without interruption.
I am not in a position to answer questions about Drogheda or any other towns.
If the Minister of State can answer a question about Cork, why can she not answer one about Drogheda?
The Chair draws attention to the fact that the three questions before us are statistical in nature. We have wandered into major areas of policy which are outside the scope of the questions. I suggest Deputies submit questions on policy to the appropriate Minister.
Last week the Taoiseach informed the House that our population now exceeds four million people. Was he relying on the household budget survey or other survey for this new information? Was he indicating there is an inaccuracy in the preliminary census returns which I have before me? What was the basis of his statement, which he made in a very definitive manner?
I welcome the indication from the preliminary returns that the population of Connacht has increased by nearly 11%. I also note that there have been massive population increases in the north and west sides of Dublin and the population of Fingal county, some of which is in my constituency, has increased by 17%. Does the Minster of State agree that based on these statistics, it is critical that we have a system of integrated planning in the north and west fringes of Dublin and in Fingal county, particularly with regard to the development of current transport capacity and the provision of new modes of transport? In this context, I welcome the presence of the Minister for Transport. Does the Minister of State also agree that the figures demand that the development set out in the national development plan be urgently revised?
The Minister of State stated we will not be in a position to make decisions on the European and local elections until July. By waiting until the month of the run-in to the elections, are we not leaving it too late to address this matter, in particular for the large number of people who are looking forward to standing in the local elections, not to speak of the major campaigns for the European elections? Do the forthcoming elections not oblige the Minister of State to try to accelerate the process of undertaking local and national boundary revisions?
The figure to which the Taoiseach referred was only 33,664 above the preliminary figures. Due to their nature, preliminary figures do not take account of late returns made since the report in question was published.
In other words, it was Taoiseach-speak.
While the preliminary figure is very accurate, it is probably not definitive. In addition, the figures were compiled in April 2002, which is almost a year ago. I am sure our population has grown a little since then. It would be irresponsible to pre-empt the results of the figures due in July on the area populations by considering changes to the boundaries prior to that. However, it is important that they are considered. As the Deputy stated, the final figures will have a major bearing on some of the areas in which the population has grown substantially for electoral purposes. In terms of the national development plan, all Government policies are constantly being reviewed as a result of a range of demands, one of which is statistics on population.
I asked a question earlier about the cuts of 40% in CSO spending. The reason was that the Taoiseach—
The Deputy should focus on asking a brief question, rather than making a statement.
I appreciate that. The Minister of State stated that the CSO figures are important in informing other policies. I want to ask here about that statement.
Question No. 106 refers to the CSO. We cannot take a question on a matter which will be addressed down the line.
It is not down the line.
It is.
She did not read out anything. I just want to know if the figures are part of an extended reply on women's participation in politics from the CSO point of view. As the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dea, is currently regaling the National Women's Council of Ireland, is the Minister of State, Deputy Hanafin – who is the nearest thing we have to a female Taoiseach today as she is taking Taoiseach's Question Time – in a position to say whether the CSO preliminary figures refer to women's participation in politics?
First, the question was not asked. Second, we all know that the number of women participating in politics is not sufficient. Third, the contributions of those who are here far outweigh their numbers.