Enda Kenny
Question:2 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he has received a report from the Independent Commission of Inquiry into the Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk Bombings; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3160/03]
Ceisteanna – Questions. - Dublin-Monaghan Bombings.
Enda Kenny
Question:3 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the final total cost in 2002 of the Independent Commission of Inquiry into the Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk Bombings; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3161/03]
Enda Kenny
Question:4 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach when he expects the Independent Commission of Inquiry into the Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk Bombings to complete its work; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4279/03]
Pat Rabbitte
Question:5 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach when he expects to receive the report of the Barron inquiry into the 1974 Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk bombings; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4378/03]
Tony Gregory
Question:6 Mr. Gregory asked the Taoiseach when the report of the Independent Commission of Inquiry into the Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk Bombings will be published; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4461/03]
Trevor Sargent
Question:7 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach when he will be receiving the report from the Independent Commission of Inquiry into the Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk Bombings; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5408/03]
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
Question:8 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach when the report of the Barron commission of inquiry will be published; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5422/03]
Joe Higgins
Question:9 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach when he expects to receive a report from the Independent Commission of Inquiry into the Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk Bombings; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6121/03]
Joe Costello
Question:10 Mr. Costello asked the Taoiseach when he expects to receive the report of the Barron inquiry into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings; if it is intended to refer the report to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, once it is received; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7360/03]
Joe Costello
Question:150 Mr. Costello asked the Taoiseach when the Barron inquiry into the 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombings will be complete; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7780/03]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 to 10, inclusive, and Question No. 150 together.
I have not yet received the report of the commission of inquiry. The commission is currently engaged in writing its report, which Mr. Justice Barron expects to complete in the near future. It is envisaged that the report prepared by Mr. Justice Barron will be submitted to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, as originally agreed with Opposition parties and the group Justice for the Forgotten. The Government envisages that the committee, in public session, will consider the follow-up to the report.
The cost of the commission of inquiry for last year was €578,408.95.
As this matter appears to have been going on forever, is the Taoiseach satisfied that the commission of inquiry into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings is receiving all the necessary information it requires from the relevant British authorities? If the Taoiseach is happy in that respect, why has the commission's report not yet been published? Why is it only now being written? When I questioned the Taoiseach about this matter on 6 November 2002, the indications were that it would be published early in the new year. As the Taoiseach will be aware, this is a matter of grave personal concern to the victims' families, some of whom are in regular contact with me. If the Taoiseach is not happy with the situation, has he raised it with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, in his recent discussions with him? In so far as the British authorities are concerned, extra procedures should be put in place to give Mr. Justice Barron all the information and evidence he requires to complete his work.
The Government has given Mr. Justice Barron all the resources and assistance he requires. He is currently writing the report. As Deputy Kenny correctly stated, when we discussed this matter in November, there were delays concerning the level of information the judge required from the British authorities. I raised the matter at that time with the British Prime Minister. The Minister for Foreign Affairs also raised it with the British Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, as he had done with the previous Secretary of State. Mr. Justice Barron has been in touch directly with those involved for some time. Contacts were arranged from that process. We now have to wait until the publication of the report to see whether Mr. Justice Barron is satisfied with the material he has received from the British authorities. He will deal with that matter in his report. I hope it will be ready before the summer, and I understand it will be.
Will the Taoiseach comment on the fact that the Victims Commission's recommendations which were published in August 1999 have not yet been implemented? Is there a set of reasons this has not been happened or will the Taoiseach request his Department to examine this matter to ensure that the recommendations, either in their entirety or in part, are implemented as soon as possible?
The intention is that this report, which was undertaken by a former Tánaiste, John Wilson, will be implemented. A major part of the proposal in that regard was announced last month. To fulfil the Government's obligations under the Good Friday Agreement, we are allocating €3 million this year towards addressing the needs of those in this jurisdiction who suffered from violent action arising from the conflict in Northern Ireland. That money is to be allocated by a commission to be known as the Remembrance Fund Commission. It is analogous to the memorial fund in Northern Ireland which has been set up. I answered a question here recently in this regard and outlined that this commission will be established on a statutory basis in the near future. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will introduce the necessary legislation.
For the information of the House, the establishment of the commission follows on from the work of Mr. Wilson and the publication of the commission report. The intention is that this commission will be used to make sure that report's recommendations are implemented. An interdepartmental group has been working on the implementation of the financial recommendations of the Wilson report and some of the other recommendations. We are now well on the way to implementing that report.
On the matter of co-operation from the British authorities and the exchanges that have taken place in the House previously about queries the Taoiseach had raised and queries that were raised through the Anglo-Irish secretariat and so on about the quality and extent of co-operation by the British authorities, is the Taoiseach saying he will not know until Mr. Justice Barron reports whether Mr. Justice Barron is satisfied that whatever tardiness was there has now been cleared up and whether the quality and extent of information is what it ought to be?
With regard to the trust being established to meet the grievances of the relatives, in respect of those who were unfortunately killed and in respect of those who were injured – who have a real sense of understandable grievance, in that compensation, where it was paid out, was very paltry and minimalist – irrespective of the reporting from the Barron inquiry the commission can go ahead and allocate those moneys. How does the Taoiseach propose that the fund set up will be distributed?
The Deputy has raised two questions. The House will recall that last year there was a long and protracted discussion about trying to get the necessary information for Mr. Justice Barron. That process came to an end. Mr. Justice Barron received some information and he was in direct communications and had meetings in regard to other aspects of this matter. Mr. Justice Barron operates independently; he does not report to me, but I am aware of some of those connections. He has not asked me since the beginning of the new year to make any further contacts. Deputy Rabbitte has correctly summarised what I stated. Whether Mr. Justice Barron is satisfied with what he got I do not know. I know he has information but I do not know if he has all the information he needs or if that information is satisfactory. We will have to await the report to see how he deals with this.
Regarding the second matter, I hope the funding the Government has allocated will be allocated by a body to be known as the Remembrance Fund Commission. It will be more or less analogous to the memorial fund in Northern Ireland and will be established on a statutory basis. When I answered a question on this recently I said I would check it and I confirm that this has to be done on a statutory basis. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will bring in the appropriate legislation.
I know the Taoiseach does not have day to day responsibility for this and that Mr. Justice Barron does not report to him but obviously there must be contact. The Taoiseach says he hopes Mr. Justice Barron will report before the summer; does he have any real expectation that that will happen? Does he have any knowledge about this? There must be contact, so what are the delays? Obviously the relatives are concerned that this is going on interminably. There does not seem to be any end in sight, particularly as we do not know what will be in the report. We do not know the view of the relevant Oireachtas committee which will examine the report either. However, at least there will be some clarity at that stage. Will the Taoiseach consider the assumption that Mr. Justice Barron has gone as far as he can and that it is now desirable we get a report for consideration by the relevant Oireachtas committee?
That is the stage we have reached and Mr. Justice Barron is completing his work. He and Mr. Justice Hamilton before him were engaged in an enormous amount of work and they received co-operation from everybody willingly before running into difficulties with different sections of the British establishment. However, to the extent that it can be completed the work is done and Mr. Justice Barron is writing the report. Some officials have been seconded to this work from my Department so there may still be some contact regarding certain aspects of the report.
In preparing for this question I inquired this morning as to when we would have the report and was told we would have it before the summer break. I hasten to add I was not told by the eminent judge but by officials. I was told we would have it by the summer break.
Does the Taoiseach accept that while a great deal of work was undertaken by Mr. Justice Barron, the critical issue holding up production of the report was the unwillingness of some elements of the British establishment to respond to Mr. Justice Barron's requests for information? The last time we discussed this I suggested to the Taoiseach that Mr. Justice Barron had sought very specific information under a range of headings from the British authorities and I understood the Taoiseach gave a commitment to try to ensure those specific requests were responded to. Since the last time we raised this matter, have the British authorities responded to the issues raised by Mr. Justice Barron or is he throwing his hands up in desperation and proceeding with a report on the basis that he will not get full co-operation from the British authorities? Are there lines of communication between the relatives' organisation, Justice for the Forgotten, and the Department of the Taoiseach? Are the relatives being kept informed of progress, if we can call it progress, on this issue?
The relatives have been kept informed. Mr. Justice Barron, to his credit, has met the relatives and kept them informed, as have officials assigned to him.
My understanding is that Mr. Justice Barron has received the information he sought. I do not know whether it is complete or to his satisfaction but we have stopped seeking information. We asked Prime Minister Blair to help in this matter and he did so. The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Paul Murphy, has been particularly helpful since he took up his position some months ago. It remains to be seen if all the information requested has been made available. I put on record my doubts in that regard many months ago.
I cannot answer the question on whether Mr. Justice Barron is satisfied. We have received much better co-operation and assistance in recent months, particularly the final months of last year, than previously, but we will have to wait for the report to see if this co-operation has been complete. As previously agreed, the report will be passed to the relevant committee of the House as soon as we receive it.
Does the Taoiseach agree with the impression I sometimes have during questions about the 1974 bombings and other bombings in this State around that time, that parties on both sides of the House are all in opposition as we tend to ask questions about a Government in Westminster which is not accountable to this House? We should focus on the role of the Government which is accountable to the House. The Taoiseach stated the report of the Barron commission of inquiry is expected to be published by the summer break. Does this mean the summer break of 2003? Given that he based his statement on the word of officials, does he believe the report will be published on time or has allowance been made for a degree of flexibility?
If the relatives and victims of the atrocities are to get anything from today's questions, they would appreciate finding out not only when Mr. Justice Barron's report will be published, but whether a date has been set for the publication of the legislation to establish the remembrance commission fund. Is the Government working to a timeframe for establishing the promised fund? The matter has been discussed in the House, yet no date has been given.
I will take the second question first. A statement on the remembrance commission fund was made on 27 February. The necessary resources have been made available in this financial year and it will be established as quickly as the legislation can be implemented.
Regarding the Deputy's first question, which other Deputies also asked, I wish to make the position clear. Since the receipt of the official material from the British authorities last year, further material was received by Mr. Justice Barron related to queries raised with him. As I stated, the Secretary of State, Paul Murphy, has been helpful in this regard. Mr. Justice Barron has been in touch with British officials again recently but I do not know the nature of that contact.
Clearly some time was lost last year, but Mr. Justice Barron continued his work on the Seamus Ludlow and Dundalk bombings cases. I am not sure if his report will be composite because these incidents were treated separately at the time we asked him to deal with them. There will probably be separate reports. I do not have control over the time of publication, but I have no reason to believe Mr. Justice Barron is doing other than his utmost to bring this matter to completion.
Will the Taoiseach offer his view on the reason the British authorities have refused to co-operate fully with the Hamilton and Barron inquiries and the reason we had to wait until the appointment of the new Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Paul Murphy, before, as he stated, the situation improved? It will task many of the families of the victims and those who are concerned to see a satisfactory resolution of this issue.
In respect of the other cases Mr. Justice Barron has been asked to address, has he received all the co-operation he would require in terms of addressing the 1974 bombing of Castleblayney, which saw the death of Patrick Mohan and the murder of John Francis Green? Does the Taoiseach believe that Mr. Justice Barron will be able to fulsomely report on all those additional areas of inquiry he was requested to address?
On the question of the Remembrance Fund Commission, I would like to ascertain from the Taoiseach, in a more specific way if at all possible, when he expects legislation to be brought before this House and when the detail of access to the fund that has been indicated for the current year will be advised to victims to effect application? Will the Taoiseach confirm that the €3 million set aside this year is but the first tranche of a fund that will continue and be open to application in subsequent years?
As I have stated in reply to Deputy Sargent, I hope that legislation will be brought forward as soon as possible because the resources are available for this year and the fund will continue until it has completed its remit, which will probably take some time.
On the other question, the position at the beginning of the year was that Mr. Justice Barron's intention was to publish his findings on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings in one report and to deal with the Dundalk bombing and the Seamus Ludlow case in a separate report. I have no information to show that that position has changed.
In reply to the Deputy's first question, as he is aware I have put my view on that on the record on a number of occasions when we sought co-operation from different Secretaries of State and officials in the British establishment. We probably got what was contained in the departmental records at an early date because the Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, instructed the release of anything contained in those records, but I am sure some of them contain information on how the Northern Ireland Office and the related system operates. That information was in security and intelligence files and, as the Deputy is aware, perhaps more so than myself, it is a hard task to get at those files.
In his reply the Taoiseach referred to the Dundalk bombings and the Seamus Ludlow case. In my question I specifically referred to the 1974 bombing in Castleblayney which resulted in the death of Patrick Mohan and the murder of John Francis Green but the way the Taoiseach responded causes me some concern. Will the Taoiseach confirm that both of those tragic events have also been included in the remit of Mr. Justice Barron?
I would have to check that because my brief states that it is Dundalk-Monaghan which is included. When Mr. Justice Barron was going through the information, many of these cases overlapped in terms of the investigation stages so perhaps they are all covered under the Monaghan bombings.
Will the Taoiseach get back to me on that?
I will check that and let the Deputy know.
If my memory serves me correctly, the investigation was initially set up in January 2000, which is three years ago. Will the Taoiseach agree it is absolutely intolerable that he, as the Prime Minister of this State, is not in a position to tell us that the level of co-operation from the British authorities has been sufficiently satisfactory to enable a complete report to be written by Mr. Justice Barron? In view of the fact that the Taoiseach is supposed to have an excellent relationship with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, who promised the Taoiseach that he would get the information out, will he agree that elements of the security forces in Britain have deliberately obstructed the full information coming out? Is it the case that we have not heard the full truth of the tragic atrocities that constitute the Dublin and Monaghan bombings?
This is the fourth or fifth occasion on which we have questioned the Taoiseach on this issue, and the information we got has been utterly inadequate. The Taoiseach apparently had a great deal of difficulty dragging anything from the British authorities. Does the Taoiseach agree that it has taken so long to extract information and the information has been so insufficient that if the Irish Government applied to Mr. Blair's tardiness on the matter the same yardstick as Mr. Blair has applied to Saddam Hussein with regard to information on alleged weapons of mass destruction, the Taoiseach might have dispatched an Air Corps Cessna over No. 10 Downing Street to throw a few hand grenades down to wake the Prime Minister so we get the information?
We have been over this ground before – the questions have been answered – and it is unnecessary to go over it again. The late Mr. Justice Hamilton was and now Mr. Justice Barron is engaged in reconstructing as much of the data and information as possible that surrounds the bombings in Dublin and Monaghan in May 1974 and some of the related bombings elsewhere, such as the Dublin bombings in 1972, the Dundalk bombings and the murder of Séamus Ludlow. They went through departmental and Garda files and sought information from the British. I asked Prime Minister Tony Blair to assist and we received all available departmental records. There was a delay with the NIO and some Secretaries of State – I do not think I am being unkind when I say that – but the present Secretary of State, Mr. Paul Murphy, has been very active in assisting us.
Some of the security information was difficult to obtain. Mr. Justice Barron asked questions, held meetings and got information. He is conducting the inquiry, not me, and I will have to wait for his report to find out his ultimate conclusions on the quality of the information he was given and the answers he received. I am not sure if he got all the information but we must wait for the report.
The House appreciates that we are trying to reconstruct as much of the information as possible, taking into account that the inquiry was set up 26 years after the events. Those were extraordinary times and circumstances, as I mentioned previously. There have been three years of intensive investigation, which has benefited from the work of the victims' families, the Justice for the Forgotten movement and others. We will wait for the report and see what it says.
There have been enormous efforts to put the report together. I do not want it to be interpreted that the report has concentrated for three years on one small aspect which may or may not be resolved. It is a much more comprehensive job that is now nearing completion. That is how we should view the current position.
It sometimes seems as if there will never be closure on this issue – it is almost 30 years since the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. When the Taoiseach came into the House previously he indicated that there was a new spirit of co-operation from the British authorities on the matter. He gave the impression that there was significant material available to Mr. Justice Barron. Will he state whether that material is of some significance which was not the case previously? Hitherto, the general impression was that there had not been co-operation from the British authorities. Is this the first element of co-operation and is that the reason it has taken so long to complete the report? The Taoiseach stated that Mr. Justice Barron would complete the report before summer. On the basis that spring starts at the beginning of February and we are now at the end of March, are we to take it that the report will be presented by the end of April, or is there a different interpretation of that?
With regard to matters arising from the report of the former Tánaiste, Mr. John Wilson, and the good news that €3 million will be made available, when will the relevant legislation be introduced? Obviously, all sides of this House will be anxious to facilitate that, as would the relatives of the victims. Given that the matter will be referred to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, is the Taoiseach supportive of the idea that Mr. Justice Barron should come before that committee and that the committee should also receive a delegation from Justice for the Forgotten?
On the matter of legislation, I am supportive of its being dealt with as quickly as possible. The resources are available and it would be helpful to the relatives to move matters forward. In my previous statements on this matter I referred to departmental information, which is not difficult to obtain, information from the NIO, which did prove difficult to obtain, and information on the security position, which was even more difficult to obtain. We now have support from Prime Minister Blair and, particularly, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Mr. Paul Murphy, in dealing with the matter. I believe that Mr. Justice Barron is satisfied with that co-operation as I indicated previously.
Having regard to the long period of time involved, there are difficulties in bringing all the information together. I believe that Deputies will agree it has been a considerable achievement, within a relatively short period of three years, to piece together the events of 27 years ago to complete this report. On the time factor, one of the things I have learned in the course of this job is that it is not a good idea to question the work of judges and, accordingly, that is something which I no longer do. I hope it will be ready soon.