Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 1 Apr 2003

Vol. 564 No. 1

Leaders' Questions.

Mr. Kenny

We are now into the 12th day of the Iraqi war and casualties on both sides are mounting. We are being subjected to the most graphic and horrific descriptions of the consequences of war and the impact it is having on civilians and military alike.

The United States is committing an extra 100,000 soldiers and weaponry to this conflict. There was speculation at the weekend that Baldonnel and Casement aerodromes are now also being used for military flights in addition to Shannon. The Minister for Defence confirmed that no flights had gone through there since last July. Will the Taoiseach inform the House as to the facilities that are being made available? Under Irish law it is necessary that, in this instance, the United States would receive the authorisation of the Department of Transport for overflights and landing. Will the Taoiseach also inform the House of the number of flights and overflights, if he has that information, plus the weaponry that is being carried in landings and overflights that has been communicated to the Department of Transport or to the Government?

Is the Taoiseach in a position to give us a guarantee that there is no danger to Irish citizens, in view of the number of accidents that have occurred in Iraq because of inter-flying? God forbid, if an accident were to happen with the over-flights or landing of military planes at Shannon Airport or some other facility. Given that this matter is of serious concern to Irish citizens, has the Taoiseach been kept fully informed by the US authorities of the number of flights that are either flying over or landing and of the equipment, type and amount of weaponry that is being carried on any flights that are using our facilities?

The Taoiseach

What is happening in Iraq is clearly an enormous tragedy. Our view is, as it always has been, that these matters could have been resolved at the United Nations but that was not to be and, unfortunately, we are now into what everyone hoped we would avoid for all of those months. The reports are disturbing. We continue to do everything we can in terms of humanitarian aid working with the various agencies. That is where our focus has been for the past 12 days and where it will continue to be. I had an opportunity last week to refer to one or two of the agencies involved but there are a number of them working in the field. Deputy Kenny referred to reports about Baldonnel being used for military stop-overs. Foreign military aircraft occasionally use the facilities at Baldonnel, but no US military aircraft have landed at Baldonnel since the summer of 2002. Permission for the landing of foreign military aircraft at Baldonnel is granted subject to the usual stipulations, that the aircraft is unarmed and carries no ammunition, explosives or intelligence gathering equipment. There have been no landings at Baldonnel and no requests for such landings since the present US military movements began in the autumn of 2002.

I do not have numbers, but my latest information in relation to military aircraft at Shannon is that a very limited number of US airforce planes are currently using Shannon. I understand that US authorities do not anticipate any significant increase in the number of planes using Shannon in the period ahead. A few days' notice is usually given in these cases and we have not been given any indications as yet of further use of the airport. Obviously, a proportion of the civilian aircraft carrying additional US troops to be deployed in the Gulf may land at Shannon, but the usual rules would apply in such cases and they must inform us in such cases.

Civilian aircraft charted by the US military sometimes transport personal weapons and ammunition over Ireland, but permission for such flights must be sought from the Minister for Transport. However, there is no question of large-scale weaponry being routed to Iraq over Irish sovereign space. The US does not use our air space for that.

Mr. Kenny

I thank the Taoiseach in advance for the Government's support for our motion on humanitarian aid to Iraq, which is due for debate this evening. At least the Dáil should be able to speak with a single voice on that issue.

The Taoiseach said that a very limited number of US military aircraft now use facilities at Shannon and that he does not expect a great increase in such usage. Has the Government been informed by the US of the number of overflights taking place. I am informed that on one night ten days ago, there were 63 overflights at 65,000 feet, and they would have refuelling facilities available to them. A court action is due regarding the legitimacy of offering the US the use of facilities at Shannon. The Taoiseach has been at pains to point out that Ireland is not a participant in this war, but what about military personnel who have passed through Shannon and might have been the victims of the suicide bombing in Iraq a number of days ago, or who are involved in the deaths of civilians at Basra? Does that not constitute assistance in the provision of facilities for the war effort? Does it not mean the Taoiseach's claim of non-participation in the war and non-contribution to the US war effort is invalid?

The Taoiseach

No, it does not. Under our law, it is clear that US use of facilities at Shannon does not constitute participation on our part. That has been the position down through generations. I know people continue to raise this issue, but the international legal position is that we are not participants in the war. We have provided facilities at Shannon for many different countries since 1955. I do not have exact figures of overflights, but I can obtain them for the Deputy. Over the first 90 days of 2003, 61 military aircraft landed at Shannon. I have seen questions put by Deputy Kenny suggesting that there were ten or 15 flights landing per day and that there were 30 landings on a single weekend, but in the whole 90 day period, only 61 US military aircraft landed at Shannon, and most of those were in January. It is not the case that the US flies heavy weaponry over Shannon. US planes carry personal ammunition but not heavy equipment. Last weekend, all the heavy equipment was flown to Iraq over Germany and France. That is the route the Americans are taking with their heavy equipment.

Mr. Rabbitte

On the domestic front, I wish to raise the issue of the cuts taking place throughout the country, unknown to many people who are not personally affected. I refer the Taoiseach to a story in The Irish Times this morning about cuts enforced by the Department of Health and Children to save €71,000 which will prevent Enable Ireland from providing hot meals to 53 children with disabilities. Given the scale of the cutbacks in the most vulnerable and deprived parts of the country, does the Taoiseach recall launching the RAPID programme on 8 February 2001 – RAPID stands for revitalising areas by invest ment and development. This very carefully chosen acronym was intended to convey, before the election, the Government's intention to rapidly address areas of disadvantage.

The Taoiseach will recall that the programme targeted 25 of the most disadvantaged and deprived areas of the country. Another 20 targeted areas were subsequently added. These were the most deprived areas, according to the Government's statistics, and there was to be a massive transfer of resources. The figure of €1.9 billion was mooted for fast-tracking out of the social inclusion component of the national development plan. Does the Taoiseach know that the plan has collapsed? Does he know that the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Ó Cuív, went to Tallaght a couple weeks ago and confessed that it had collapsed and that there is no money to meet any of the plans agreed in the 45 targeted areas. The most disadvantaged communities in Ireland were told to create their own plans and that the Government would fast-track funding. There was no question of funding not being provided, but now, as soon as the election is over, the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, said – if I had the time, I would read into the record what he said – that there is no money.

The Taoiseach

I understand that Enable Ireland receives annual grants of €16 million under section 65 of the Health (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2001. The body has a shortfall, between the costs of providing services and the funding received from health boards, of €4 million. Enable Ireland has indicated that deficits have arisen for a number of reasons. A detailed review of the activities of voluntary service providers in the physical and sensory disabilities sector is being carried out jointly by the Department of Health and Children and the health boards to establish the extent of core funding and staffing deficits. It always amazes me in cases where organisations have a budget of €16 million or, in some cases, €100 million that hot meals to children seem to be cut back before anything else. Perhaps this case is different – I imagine a number of expenditure items in a budget of €16 million could be cut before hot meals to children. The issue is being examined in a detailed review.

Mr. Allen

That is a nasty suggestion.

The Taoiseach

I remember launching the RAPID programme in Fatima Mansions. Although I do not pass the area regularly, I see that large blocks of Fatima Mansions have been closed up and are due for demolition unlike that day just two years ago. There is beautiful new housing off James's Street where I launched that programme.

Ms McManus

That has nothing to do with RAPID.

The Taoiseach

Perhaps they fell out of the sky and landed in the area. I am a bit more familiar with progress in the north-east inner city where much development is going on. Development is also going on in other areas which were designated, including Cherry Orchard. I passed through Ballymun last week and the entire area is a building site.

Ms McManus

That has nothing to do with RAPID.

The Taoiseach

Are they not the deprived areas?

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach, without interruption.

The Taoiseach

Maybe there are new deprived areas but they were the deprived areas I launched and I am glad to see work is going on in them.

At the time, a limited number of areas were designated, although plans were sent in from many other areas. It is not possible to deal with all of them in the short-term but it is good to see that areas such as Fatima Mansions, Cherry Orchard and Ballymun which were deprived for decades are, within the lifetime of this Government, seeing major renewal programmes under whatever scheme.

Mr. Rabbitte

I am sorry to see, as happened before when issues relating to deprived people or people with disabilities were the subject of Government cuts, the Taoiseach resort to attacking the management of an organisation like Enable Ireland which is doing tremendous work for people with disabilities. The Taoiseach wonders why other areas could not be cut. Maybe catering on the Government jet, the salary of one public relations consultant or the photographic service of which the four Ministers opposite avail could be cut. That would provide the €71,000 needed in this case.

Mr. Connaughton

That is more like it.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Taoiseach cannot even remember the RAPID programme on which his candidates in the 45 deprived areas canvassed and which they sold coming up to the general election as the most major transformation and transfer of resources in the history of the State. The Taoiseach now presents it as if it was the fourth secret of Fatima. He drives by Fatima Mansions and vaguely remembers something he announced but no funding has been provided. Every day the Taoiseach's replies increasingly resemble something from the mad hatter's tea party. He is somehow trying to say there are plans and they are being funded. The Minister responsible, Deputy Ó Cuív, told this House in response to an Adjournment matter I raised, after his announce ment in Tallaght, that there is no funding available for RAPID.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Rabbitte, you have gone well over your minute. I ask you to resume your seat and allow the Taoiseach to reply.

Mr. Rabbitte

That is the position and the contribution of the Government to areas of deprivation.

The Taoiseach

I am not attacking any organisation; I am just saying it is a pity that every time there is a difficulty in an area, the most vulnerable sections are always hit and it is played up to a great degree.

Ms McManus

Exactly.

The Taoiseach

A detailed review of the activities of voluntary service providers in the physical and sensory disability sector is being carried out jointly by the Department of Health and Children and the health boards to look at staffing deficits with a view to the identification of the exact deficits in these areas. That is the way to try to deal with them. It is regrettable people do not go through those channels but try to spin issues publicly with a few politicians. That is not the way these issues should be dealt with. Enable Ireland is a good organisation which is trying to do a job and which should do it through the channels available which I am sure it is doing.

Mr. Quinn

Interpreters please.

The Taoiseach

In relation to the RAPID programme, the fact is – this is the hard bit for Deputy Rabbitte to accept – that these schemes are being built.

Ms O. Mitchell

They are not.

The Taoiseach

From where did the new houses in Fatima Mansions come?

Ms McManus

That is not RAPID.

The Taoiseach

From where did the €250 million programme in Ballymun come? Is that not happening? Deputy Rabbitte comes into the House and says that is not happening and we are not to be believed.

(Interruptions).

Mr. Rabbitte

The Taoiseach is winging it.

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow the Taoiseach to proceed without interruption.

The Taoiseach

I suggest that the eminent journalists here today go to Tallaght and decide whether work is being done.

Mr. Rabbitte

They do not know anything about it; they do not live in RAPID areas.

The Taoiseach

That the Deputy is on the airwaves saying nothing is being done does not change the fact work is being done. He is wrong and should be honest.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

On a matter of major domestic concern, is the Taoiseach aware that today thousands of pupils, teachers and parents in hundreds of locations throughout this country are engaging in protest about the absolutely abysmal state of school buildings? This is being organised under the banner of Tuismitheoirí agus Teagascóirí le Chéile. Is the Taoiseach aware there are schools in this jurisdiction which have leaking roofs, rotting walls, windows which do not close, rat infestation, little or no heating, no proper security, no proper cleaning or maintenance and a host of other difficulties? This a damning indictment of the failure of this Government and the previous one to address these needs. Is the Taoiseach aware that each day children are forced to learn and teachers are forced to teach in these conditions?

Is the Taoiseach aware that in the totally inadequate schools building programme of the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Dempsey, 289 primary and 85 secondary schools are at the architectural planning stage but have received no indication, as they are locked into that categorisation, as to whether they will be allowed to move forward in the current year or, indeed, in future years? They have no idea when their schools will be addressed in a serious way which will allow them to move towards the commencement of long overdue and much needed works. Does the Taoiseach understand the depth of public anger throughout this jurisdiction at the failure to address the need to provide an—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy's two minutes have concluded.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

—adequate, safe and comfortable teaching environment for our teachers and pupils, the leaders of our society in the future?

The Taoiseach

The full list of the building programme was produced by the Minister for Education and Science in January. At that stage I was asked questions in the House and I said the primary schools building programme in 1997 amounted to €27 million and we were only able to deal with about ten or 12 significant projects. Although slightly less than last year, this year the school buildings programme amounts to €342.9 million. This year the programme will deliver 140 large-scale projects at primary and post-primary levels, which is a significant number. Approximately 430 primary and post-primary schools will, in addition, benefit in some way from the capital programme, namely, for smaller works rather than total replacements.

An innovative feature of this year's programme is the introduction of a devolved building initiative for small rural primary schools. Many schools will benefit under that programme and the Minister hopes to extend it next year. The budget allocation for 2004 and subsequent years will determine the rate of progress on projects. I know many schools will remain to be dealt with but the Deputy will see we are making enormous changes compared to what we were able to do in the past. Any fair examination would acknowledge that.

The Department of Education and Science is in negotiation with the Department of Finance to secure a five year funding envelope to address the historical infrastructure deficit at primary and post-primary levels. That would mean the Minister would be able to better indicate to the various schools where we are going in terms of those programmes. It is a significant development plan. Clearly it is not possible to wipe out in the short-term the cumulative deficit of generations, but anyone in the House can see that we are making enormous inroads into that by providing young people with modern, updated and comfortable schools with proper facilities. We will continue to do this.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

The Taoiseach invited us to exercise a fair examination, almost in the confident expectation that such an examination would underscore the Government's claim of addressing the school building programme needs. What we are asking for is a fair examination of the schools that are not being addressed.

Does the Taoiseach for one moment believe that the many thousands of pupils and teachers who are engaged in protest today throughout the 42 constituencies in this jurisdiction do so on the basis of the fair examination he invites or on the basis of the fair examination that must be undertaken of the reality in which they must work and learn? I assure the Taoiseach that it merits his personal examination and is something he should prioritise within the Cabinet. He should instruct the Minister for Education and Science—

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, your minute has concluded.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

—to address the absolute neglect of so many schools throughout the country. If the Taoiseach has the time to spare, I will bring him through my constituency to show him education facilities at primary and secondary level which are an absolute disgrace.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy's time is concluded.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

This is reflected throughout the country.

The Taoiseach

We have spent more than €1 billion on schools over the past five years and will continue to do so. This year, a more difficult one, we will spend €340 million. The Minister has set out the programme. It is a long list of updating, upgrading and repairing. This year 140 major schools and 430 primary and post-primary schools as well as rural schools will be addressed. It is an achievement in any one year, especially a difficult year, to target 600 schools. This is a significant campaign to try to address our schools' problems and we will continue to do that. I know that anyone in a school that is not up to the high standards would like to see its problems addressed sooner rather than later. As I said, the Minister is involved in a five year programme. Any fair analysis would see that we are making enormous progress—

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

That is not the case.

Mr. Martin

It is.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Ó Caoláin asked his supplementary question.

The Taoiseach

—into what is a difficult area, and that is a fact.