Vol. 565 No. 4
3 Mr. Coveney asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the position regarding the provision of a stadium for soccer and rugby; if the consultants employed by the IRFU have reached a conclusion on the possibilities that Lansdowne Road may hold for future development into a 65,000 seat stadium; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11220/03]
4 Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the position regarding the proposed new national stadium; the number of venues under consideration; the estimated time scale for the completion of such a development; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11213/03]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 and 4 together.
During last February, I met the IRFU and the FAI and requested them to assess and delineate their needs for stadium facilities and to come back to me with proposals for meeting them. I received an executive summary of their report yesterday and the final report will be available on 28 April 2003. In recent weeks we have all seen the scale of the demand which clearly exists for modern stadium facilities. I am more than ever convinced that we need two modern stadia to cater adequately for this demand. In presenting their report, the Football Association of Ireland and the Irish Rugby Football Union have made a very valuable contribution to public debate on the issue. Both organisations are to be complimented on a very thorough presentation of the options available to them.
The report reviews five potential locations for a modern stadium which are Lansdowne Road, the IRFU-owned site at Newlands Cross, Abbotstown, the former Irish Glass Bottle Company site and Sillogue. Over the coming weeks, my Department will carefully study the report in conjunction with the sporting bodies and will question all elements of the proposal including the costings. At the conclusion of this process, I will present my conclusions and recommendations to the Government in the context of my overall report on all options for the provision of state-of-the-art stadium facilities for major sporting events. The report will also incorporate my evaluation of expressions of interest received in the procurement of a privately funded stadium at Abbotstown. I do not intend to make any further statement on this matter until the Government has decided on the further action to be taken.
The Minister will agree that last night's statements and proposals from the FAI and the IRFU were most welcome. I hope their work and professionalism will lead to the development of the 65,000-seat stadium the country wants and needs. It is important to note that this is a vindication of Fine Gael policy particularly as it relates to Landsdowne Road. As this process has been ongoing for some time, can the Minister outline the criteria on which the Government will base its decision regarding a new 65,000-seat stadium for the FAI and the IRFU? The public has a right to openness and transparency with regard to the criteria according to which the decision will be made. We are providing, in effect, for a national stadium for rugby and soccer, which are sports with huge support bases.
The Government has demonstrated its incompetence in trying to put together plans for a national stadium and it has wasted hundreds of millions of euro on the Abbotstown project. That was taxpayers' money, but perhaps the Minister can clarify the exact amount. Can the Minister confirm that the failure to construct the Eircom Park stadium for the FAI was due to the Government's interference? It is important to get it right at this stage and to support the initiative shown by the IRFU and the FAI to ensure that the quality, modern 65,000-seat stadium we all agree is needed is developed.
The principal criterion according to which the Government will make its decision is the need to provide a modern stadium suited to the playing of rugby and soccer. The question of GAA involvement has not yet been dealt with and it is an issue which has to be addressed. If the GAA enters the equation, the question of playing GAA games in the stadium will also arise. The FAI and the IRFU have provided us with a report on the position as it relates to five different sites and with an estimate of development costs. The estimate is transposed to each site rather than being confined to one which means that estimates of between €353 million and €397 million are exclusive of a contribution of €118.5 million from the FAI and the IRFU which is applicable to all sites.
There is no question of neglect of its duties by the Government and I do not understand where Deputy Coveney is coming from in that regard. However, I appreciate the support I have received from Fine Gael, the Labour Party and other Members of the House with regard to the provision of a modern stadium. There is a perception, the origin of which I do not understand, that millions of euro have been wasted in Abbotstown. This is untrue. The fact is that the National Aquatic Centre at Abbotstown cost in excess of €60 million.
This has nothing to do with the National Aquatic Centre. It has to do with the national stadium and the Minister knows it.
A couple of million euro was subsequently spent on site investigations at Abbotstown in relation to the provision of a stadium. Studies were carried out and the money may well prove to have been properly and well spent. It is quite possible that the stadium will, in the final analysis, go ahead at Abbotstown. I have not identified a location as it is a matter for Government to make the decision. Suffice it to say, the analysis is due shortly from the sporting bodies concerned and it will be looked at in depth. The draft proposal has already been received and, once we have consulted the Office of Public Works, a memorandum will be prepared for the Government. It will then be a matter for the Government to make its decision.
I lend the support of the Labour Party to the provision of a stadium. Yesterday's statement from the IRFU and the FAI was positive. With regard to the time frame involved, the one thing we do not want to see is Exchequer cutbacks causing this project to be put on the long finger and dragged out as happened with the Eir com Park project. That might not have been due to Exchequer funding issues, but planning application problems resulted in a drawn-out saga and no progress was made. Is it feasible at this stage to place a timeframe on the investigation of the proposals and, if so, what would it be?
On the previous occasion when the Minister answered questions in the Chamber, he ruled out the 23 consortia that had shown an interest in Abbotstown. Have any of these said to the Minister since that they were willing to change the format of their proposals or have they checked with him to see why he ruled them all out? It was strange, to say the least, that all 23 consortia were ruled out where this proposal was concerned.
Where stands the £50 million that JP McManus proposed for the national stadium? Is that still in the wings for the new proposal or is it ruled out? Many people welcomed the proposal from Mr. McManus at the time but we do not know the intentions for it now.
The Minister said the GAA may want to have games played in the proposed stadium. Where stands the GAA if the FAI and the IRFU take up the running on this? Obviously their criteria will weigh heavily when it comes to what takes place in the stadium. Have there been discussions with the GAA regarding the proposals put to the Minister? Is it intended that there would be such discussions with the organisation?
It is estimated, depending on which site is in question, that if the go-ahead were to be given this year, the stadium would be operational in 2008 or 2009. In the case of the majority of sites the completion date would be 2008. The expenditure on the stadium would occur over that timeframe with the majority of the spending coming in the latter two to three years so there would not be a major liability on the Exchequer in the immediate future.
While the stadium has been estimated to cost between €353 million and €397 million, and that would be exclusive of FAI or IRFU contributions, it must be remembered that €71 million would represent VAT which would be returnable to the Exchequer. Between €85 million and €100 million would return to the Exchequer by way of taxes and welfare payments. The cost of the stadium over the timeframe envisaged is nowhere near what many predicted it would be. In terms of cost benefit, there is no question that it will be of major benefit to future generations of sporting people, especially young people.
The issue of the GAA is more complex. The organisation was requested to make its stadium available for the 2008 European championship and it refused to do so. It also refused to make any recommendation to congress through central council. That was a major disappointment because it was being asked to make the stadium available on a once-off basis.
The opening up of Croke Park would not resolve the problem because there would be over lapping fixtures, deterioration of the pitch, residents' objections and floodlighting problems. All these difficulties indicate that opening up Croke Park would not resolve the problem for the IRFU and the FAI.
Their positions have become relatively untenable. The FAI has been told by UEFA and FIFA that it must provide all-seater stadia for home internationals. Lansdowne Road only has 24,000 permanent seats. That means 11,000 temporary seats must be brought in. UEFA and FIFA have indicated that they will not tolerate this any more. The IRFU is losing considerable sums of money and would make €2 million more per international if it had the additional capacity.
Everyone is losing at present as a result of the stadium not being built. It is important that it be provided. All I can do is bring forward proposals to Government for which it is then a matter.
The Minister is correct to say that everyone is losing because the 65,000 seater stadium has not been developed. Does the Minister agree it is the direct fault of Government and that it has taken a direct initiative from sporting bodies to make it happen? Has the Minister a preference for a specific site? Lansdowne Road and Abbotstown appear to be the two preferred sites. Is the Minister satisfied with the proposed financial contribution from the FAI and the IRFU—
We must move on. The Deputy is not being brief.
—of roughly one third of the cost? Is he satisfied that it is a financially viable proposition to move forward?
The Minister may have overlooked the first two parts of my question, namely, whether any of the 23 consortia contacted the Minister and what is the state of play with the proposed financial contribution of JP McManus.
The financial contribution from the IRFU and the FAI is the amount of money they say they would be able to raise through pre-sale of tickets to the corporate, business and individual sectors. I am satisfied they would be able to raise that sum of money. I believe that, at a push, it might even exceed that, but that is for another day.
We are engaged in an in-depth analysis of the report and we intend to bring forward a memorandum to Government after that analysis has been completed. We are examining the provisional report and expect the full detailed report on 28 April. I have outlined my personal preference but that is not the issue. The principal issue is the construction of a stadium. Once we go on from there, we will begin to make progress. I have complimented the IRFU and the FAI on the document they produced and the report. I asked the bodies to produce it. It was not a question of us not initiating the report.
The issue regarding Mr. McManus will be discussed in due course. There were no additional expressions of interest by the 23 consortia. Some may have contacted the Department since. I will communicate the results of that investigation to Deputy Wall.
