John Deasy
Question:49 Mr. Deasy asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he has satisfied himself with the operation to date of the Public Order Act 2003; and if a review is planned. [28332/03]
Priority Questions. - Public Order Offences.
As the Deputy will be aware, the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 2003 was enacted on 28 May 2003 and came into operation on 28 June. It is therefore too early to seek to assemble any meaningful statistics on the operation of the Act or to form a conclusive opinion of its operation. At the end of the year I will seek details on both the operation of the Public Order Act 2003 and the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003, which only came into operation at the end of September, with a view to keeping their operation under review. I believe the provisions in both Acts are and will prove of great value in dealing with the types of public disorder, which have given rise to understandable public concern.
There has already been progress in dealing with these matters. On public order, the Garda Commissioner has informed me that in the 12-month period November 2002 to the end of October 2003, which is the most up-to-date period on which I can provide statistics, assaults causing harm have decreased by 22%, or 1,144 fewer cases. Other assaults are down by 18%. Non-headline crime, which includes public order incidents, has decreased in the same period by 9%. This categorisation includes less serious assaults, which have decreased by 14%.
Since this is the first time the PULSE computer system has been used for the compilation of statistics for non-headline crime, caution must be exercised in comparing these figures with the figures for previous periods. Nevertheless, they are a positive indication that the policy of targeted operations is being successful. Yesterday I visited Cork city and met the chief superintendent there, who informed me that public order offences in Cork city are down by one third in the past year.
As the Deputy will be aware, Operation Encounter came into force on 23 February 2002. This Garda operation is focused on all issues of public order occurring in the community.
Additional information.Particular attention is paid to nightclubs, fast food outlets and other venues where large numbers of people congregate and where there is the potential for public disorder. I am further informed that Garda resources are deployed at periods and times best suited to provide an effective policing service in a particular locale, both at mid-week and during the weekend.
Since its inception, Operation Encounter has resulted in 82,423 incidents coming to the attention of the Garda. Of these, 55,559 incidents were recorded under the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994; 2,689 were recorded under the Intoxicating Liquor Act, 1998, as amended; and 24,175 under the Non-Fatal Offences against the Person Act 1997. Such statistics clearly show the determination and level of resources devoted by the Garda authorities to ensuring public safety on our streets.
Targeted initiatives have also been put in place by Garda management. In Dublin, a new city centre policing initiative was launched on 9 June 2003 by the Assistant Garda Commissioner for the Dublin metropolitan region. This initiative provides a high visibility policing presence in specific target areas in the north and south inner city centre areas. It targets issues of particular concern such as public order, assaults, street theft, shoplifting and offences committed by drug addicts. A further initiative, Operation Boulevard, which targets anti-social behaviour in the environs of O'Connell Street, is also in operation.
It is a healthy development that the Minister is finally moving around the country. Before the enactment of this Act, I spoke to a number of gardaí who said it was useless legislation in many ways, which would never have any real effect on the incidence of public order offences. The Minister gave me the answer I expected. It has been enacted for five months. How are we supposed to follow trends if we do not know how effective the legislation is after five months? How do we know exactly what is going on? How do we know how effective we in this House are in passing a Bill when five months later the Minister has no idea of how effective that legislation is? He cannot tell me how many people have been barred from premises or how many premises have been closed as a result of this legislation, which was brought in as a face-saving exercise because the Minister could not produce the additional 2,000 gardaí.
As for the situation improving over the past year or so, many people no longer report these crimes. This is about the presence of gardaí on the streets as a visible deterrent. The Minister is now talking about shutting down Garda stations, including those in urban areas. This is nonsense. We are wasting time on this matter. The Minister is avoiding the real issue, which is giving the Garda the resources to do its job.
A question, please, Deputy.
Not for the first time I find the Deputy's approach amazing. First, he decries the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act passed by the House, as useless. This legislation was strongly supported by the Garda Síochána and thought to be necessary. I do not know on which barstool the Deputy sits when he talks to gardaí.
It depends on which garda one talks to.
All the gardaí I spoke to, including all of Garda management, strongly—
Does the Minister just talk to superintendents?
Allow the Minister to speak, please.
This is the usual thing. The Deputy starts shouting every time. He can give it but he cannot take it.
In fairness, one could say the same about the Minister.
The Garda Síochána supported the legislation very strongly. The intention was to strengthen existing public order legislation. The Deputy will appreciate that the main way in which it was designed to work was that gardaí would quietly advise the owners of premises where disorder was occurring about steps they could take to minimise that disorder and, if necessary, go to the District Court in cases of noncompliance with Garda advice.
The Deputy may ask how effective is the legislation. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I say to the Deputy—
The Minister cannot tell me how many orders have been made because he is not interested.
Sorry, Deputy.
After five months, the Minister cannot tell me.
Sorry, Deputy, allow the Minister to speak. The Minister should address his remarks through the Chair.
He does not want to answer the question.
The Deputy is shouting again. I do not know why the Deputy asked the question.
Allow the Minister to speak, Deputy Deasy.
The Minister does not want to give the answer because it is zero.
I am answering the question.
Deputy Deasy should allow the Minister to speak.
The problem with the Deputy is that he cannot take the answer because it does not suit him.
The Minister does not want to give it.
Public order offences this year are on a consistent downward track. As I said to the Deputy just a moment ago, the chief superintendent for Cork city told me yesterday that public order offences there are down by one third. That is the opinion of a garda and I respect it. The information was unsolicited.
The Minister should tell this to the public.
I want to deal with the suggestion made by the Deputy – again a flippant, off the top of the head immature suggestion—
Everything is. How long does the Minister have for this reply? This is a supplementary question.
Deputy, allow the Minister to speak.
Ten minutes?
—that I introduced the Bill as a fig leaf because I was not going to produce 2,000 extra gardaí. If the Deputy had been around long enough he would know that my predecessor as Minister, Deputy O'Donoghue, introduced the legislation. It was not introduced in that context or for that purpose.
The six minutes for this question have concluded.
It was introduced, as the Deputy well knows—
It was publicised as a panacea as far as public order was concerned.
It was introduced for the purpose of improving public order legislation.
The Minister knows it is useless.
It was generally supported in the House.
We must move on to the next question.
The Deputy has again said that the improvement in figures is due to underreporting. This kind of morale sapping denigration of Garda figures comes from a Deputy who says he supports the Garda.
The Minister should not blame the Opposition. He denigrated gardaí and they know it. They do not blame me, they blame the Minister.