Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 29 Jan 2004

Vol. 578 No. 6

Adjournment Debate.

Training and Employment Schemes.

Mr. Gilmore

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing me to raise this matter on the Adjournment. The linked work experience programme is one of the most successful jobs and training schemes I have encountered. Unfortunately, in Dún Laoghaire it has been ended, apparently for budgetary reasons.

The linked work experience programme is operated in Dún Laoghaire by the Dún Laoghaire Community Workshop. Linked work experience provides work experience for young people between the ages of 16 and 25 years. Most of the young people concerned have left school early, many before the junior certificate. Most are from disadvantaged homes and many labour under a variety of social, educational and economic disadvantages. They are young people who find it difficult to get a start in life and some could end up in trouble with the law.

Under the linked work experience programme, the young person's needs are assessed by the programme co-ordinator who then tries to match them to an employer, helps the person with his or her CV and interview and follows up by providing back-up support from the training workshop while the person is with the employer. The employer, in turn, provides the young person with mentoring assistance. The young person spends six months in the training workshop and approximately six months on the job.

The scheme is working successfully. Since the beginning of 2002, 90 young people in Dún Laoghaire have gone through this scheme. Of those, 60% were placed in employment or in appropriate training or education after they finished the programme. That is a high success rate. There are 52 local companies or employers involved in the scheme, most of whom are prepared to repeat the experience and to take more than one trainee. Young people from disadvantaged backgrounds in danger of being left behind or getting into trouble are being channelled into useful employment. The employers are enthusiastic about the scheme, the Community training workshop is happy that it is working successfully and the trainees gain huge fulfilment from it.

Shortly before Christmas, the community training workshop was told that the scheme is being discontinued. This information came from FÁS. I have seen two items of correspondence from FÁS and they are contradictory. The letter from the regional director states that the centre is operating with too high a number for the scheme while the letter from the director general of FÁS seems to imply that the centre does not have enough people on the scheme. When one reads both letters together, however, it is clear that the scheme was discontinued for financial reasons. FÁS simply pulled the plug on a successful scheme for its own financial reasons.

Will the Minister ensure that FÁS reinstates this scheme? It is working well for young people who, in normal circumstances, would be lost to education, employment or getting a start in life. I met one employer who told me he had two of these people working for him. One of them was from a family in which, over three generations, nobody had worked and there was little family support for somebody leaving in the morning to go to a job. This scheme has managed to get these young people into employment, employers and operators are happy with it and the trainees are more than fulfilled with it. It astonishes me that when something is working and is a success, we manage to pull the plug on it. Over the next number of years people will organise seminars, produce reports and wonder about what can be done for the young people from disadvantaged backgrounds who are dropping out of school, finding it difficult to get employment and who are sometimes getting into trouble. This scheme is working successfully in my area. I want it back in the interests of the trainees, their families and the communities in which these young people live. I ask the Minister of State to intervene with FÁS to ensure this working worthwhile scheme is restored.

Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture and Food (Mr. Treacy)

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue and I will outline briefly the respective roles which FÁS and the Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Fahey, play in training and employment schemes. The Minister of State's role is to agree public funding and give overall policy direction to FÁS. The Minister of State does not have a role in the ongoing operational management of FÁS schemes or in deciding how funding should be allocated to individual project or participants. Such decisions are day-to-day operational matters for FÁS as part of its responsibilities under the Labour Services Act 1987. However, in light of the Deputy's concerns, the Minister of State has asked FÁS to comment on its dealings with the Dún Laoghaire community training workshop.

Community training workshops are small training centres that run a range of community-based training programmes to meet the needs of early school leavers in their area. The workshops are autonomous bodies under the control of management committees drawn from different sectors of the community. These committees employ staff to run the workshops and are responsible for the policy and administration of the centres.

FÁS assists more than 40 of these workshops nationwide by meeting staff salaries and paying allowances to the centres' trainees. In return, FÁS will negotiate a contract with each workshop, while agreeing the level of training to be provided that year. The training provided by these workshops has two elements. Formal training within the workshops is provided at foundation level. This mixes practical skills, such as catering or woodwork, with personal development courses and leads to FÁS or City and Guilds certification, junior certificate or applied leaving certificate.

Towards the end of their training period, community workshop trainees are job ready and can participate in the linked work experience part of the FÁS community training workshop programme. This takes place in local companies and runs for a period of approximately four to ten weeks, during which FÁS continues to pay the participant the same training allowance he or she received while in the workshop. The objective is to give valuable work experience to the graduate and hopefully a permanent job placement in the company. In agreeing work programmes with the workshops, FÁS is guided by the needs of early school leavers and young people who need basic qualifications to obtain employment. FÁS, therefore, requires young people to obtain the basic qualification before they take up in-company training.

I understand the Dún Laoghaire community training workshop has been in operation for more than 15 years and has run a range of programmes covering literacy and numeracy, pre-apprenticeship, craft skills, catering and computer skills. However, FÁS has become concerned that a significant number of participants on the linked work experience module in Dún Laoghaire have not received training or a basic qualification in the workshop, but instead have been going directly into employment.

Mr. Gilmore

It is working.

Mr. Treacy

FÁS has informed the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, that it has not stopped supporting linked work experience for the Dún Laoghaire community training workshop, but that it has requested the training centre to confine the participation to graduates who have completed their training courses and hold a basic certificate.

Mr. Gilmore

That is the same thing.

Mr. Treacy

In other words, the system cannot be evaded.

Mr. Gilmore

That is insulting the training workshop and the participants. There is no question of evasion.

Mr. Treacy

If the Deputy reads the report FÁS has presented, the people are going directly into employment without training.

Mr. Gilmore

The scheme is working.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please.

Mr. Treacy

If it is working and jobs are available ——

Mr. Gilmore

These young people are falling through the system.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We cannot have a debate on the matter.

Mr. Treacy

The Deputy is contradicting himself. He is saying that this situation will lead to unemployment and that it will be a disaster for the young people. However, the report states that they are going directly into employment without training. That is a contradiction. I do not understand the Deputy's case.

Mr. Gilmore

They are getting training.

Mr. Treacy

Furthermore, FÁS has assured the training centre that all its young people who have completed their training and received certification can avail of linked work experience to help them secure employment. It is a good transparent system.

Mr. Gilmore

A scheme that is working is being wound down.

School Accommodation.

Mr. Durkan

I thank you, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, and the Ceann Comhairle for affording me the opportunity to discuss the increasingly serious problem of gross overcrowding, inadequate and dilapidated buildings and the clear breaches of health and safety regulations arising therefrom which negatively affect conditions under which pupils and teachers try to work and study in a number of primary and second level schools in County Kildare. I call on the Minister for Education and Science to provide the necessary resources to address these pressing issues.

County Kildare is adjacent to the greater Dublin population area. There is ongoing pressure for school places and utility and community services. Schools, hospitals and other essential services are to the fore in that regard. Virtually every town and village which has or does not have a primary and/or second level school, is under serious pressure to provide urgently required facilities for an increasing population.

I do not propose to name all the schools in County Kildare, but the Maynooth post-primary school, which has been understaffed for several years, is heavily overcrowded. It is currently restricting admissions. Its students and teachers work and study in conditions which are more suited to the 18th or 19th century, rather than the 21st century. The school is at the early architectural planning stage. Planning permission was granted three years ago. The community has taken all the necessary action, but the relevant action has not been taken by the Department.

I ask the Minister to give priority rating to all schools in the county. A number of schools, such as Sallins and Robertstown, which were in a serious condition, have received indications. Work will proceed on those in the current year, but it remains to be seen to what extent that will happen. However, work must be carried out on Maynooth post-primary school, Scoil Clochar Naofa in Kilcock and Tír Mochain national school, to name but a few. Kill national school requires a new building. Discussions have taken place. The Minister said in reply to parliamentary questions that consideration was being given to the acquisition of a site. However, while that has been happening for the past two years, new road proposals have been outlined which will bring heavy vehicular traffic close to the school. It would be better to relocate the school to another site as quickly as possible in view of the impending major road reconstruction work. St. Patrick's post-primary school in Naas is another example. I will not list all the schools because there are a total of 46.

In view of the severe pressure emanating from the increased population and demand for school places, will the Minister influence the Department to draw up a priority list which takes cognisance of the geographic location of County Kildare, particularly north Kildare, to the population base of Dublin? If the schools in question have to take the population overflow from the capital city, which they are doing and are willing to do, the least that can be done is to ensure that the necessary resources are provided in a structured way to meet the requirements. If that is not done, the problem will get worse. If that happens, the Minister will leave himself open to allegations that he failed to do his duty and to meet his statutory requirements. Those allegations will be valid because we have repeatedly brought this to the attention of the Minister and his Department. The Minister of State is too good at his job to refer to the website. We all know about the website. I do not want to hear about it. I want action soon.

Mr. Treacy

I am taking this debate on behalf of the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Noel Dempsey, who has EU Presidency responsibilities this afternoon and regrets very much that he cannot be here.

Given the generalised nature of the Deputy's statement, I propose to outline to the House both the extensive actions already taken by the Department of Education and Science, and those planned for the future to address the accommodation needs of schools in County Kildare which continues to experience a population growth. This position almost inevitably places strain on existing educational infrastructure. Over the past two years, however, the Department of Education and Science has provided a massive and unprecedented €69.3 million for an extensive catalogue of capital interventions in primary and post-primary schools in County Kildare to address this issue, one of the biggest in Ireland. At primary level, the landscape in Kildare now includes two new schools at Celbridge and Killashee. A state-of-the-art, 16 classroom school with a double autistic unit is scheduled to go to construction in Naas this year together with a new eight classroom school in Rathmore, which represents very positive progress.

Major extension and refurbishment works will also proceed for schools in Sallins, Clogherincoe and Celbridge. In addition, refurbishment works and the provision of ancillary accommodation are already under way at Scoil Naomh Mhuire, Ballymany. To further develop provision in the area, there are a number of primary school projects in architectural planning for extension and refurbishment works. The details of these projects are available on the school building programme for 2004 which is published on the Department of Education and Science's website at www.education.ie.

Mr. Durkan

How well we know that.

Mr. Treacy

The Department of Education and Science is continually looking at new and innovative ways of expediting and devolving delivery of educational infrastructure. In this regard, the Deputy may be aware of two pilot initiatives being run by the Department — the small and rural school programme and the permanent accommodation programme. These initiatives are very promising and the Minister for Education and Science has decided to extend the schemes to include more schools for 2004. Included in these schools are the Monasterevin No. 2 national school and Scoil Naomh Brighde, Ticknevin. Both of these schools have accepted an invitation to participate and attended a meeting about this recently. Scoil Naomh an Chloch Mhor, Rathvilly, has also accepted an invitation for the construction of ancillary accommodation in 2004.

Further additional accommodation was provided in Kildare in 2003 by way of purchased temporary accommodation for six primary schools. Officials in the Department of Education and Science are assessing and prioritising all applications for temporary accommodation for primary and post-primary schools for 2004. The Department will soon publish a list of projects proceeding this year. At post-primary level, in Naas, a major extension project has been completed at St. Mary's College, which has increased capacity at the school to 800 pupils. An application for further additional accommodation is being assessed. In addition, a major extension at Meánscoil Iognaid Rís is in architectural planning. There is surplus capacity at St. Patrick's post-primary school and the school's management authority, County Kildare VEC, is assessing the future of the school at its existing location. Elsewhere in the county, a physical education hall has recently been completed at Scoil Eoin, Rathstewart, and a large extension of almost 1,900 sq. m. is under construction at Scoil Dara, Kilcock.

There are several post-primary projects in architectural planning for extension and refurbishment works. The details of these projects are also available on the Department of Education and Science's website. On the recent publication of the Department's building programme, the Minister stressed his absolute conviction that devolving funding, responsibility and authority to schools for small-scale capital building projects is the way forward. As a further initiative in that direction, the Minister has put in place a new €31 million devolved summer works scheme. This caters for necessary small-scale works that can be planned and delivered generally during the summer holidays when the children and teachers are at home. The 2004 programme will be updated in early spring to provide details of schools with approved projects under this scheme. This initiative sets clear dates for both the application and decision processes. Too often in the past a project could not progress during the summer because of difficulties caused by late notification. The new approach will bring greater clarity and certainty to the operation of the small-scale works programme and will help schools in their preparations for the execution of the works during the summer. The scheme is open to all primary and post-primary schools in the country and schools in Kildare may further benefit from funding under the scheme, subject to the prioritisation criteria governing the scheme, the level of funding available and the competing priorities for that funding.

School authorities are responsible, in the first instance, for ensuring the safety and welfare of children and others in their care. In accordance with the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Act 1989, it is the responsibility of school management authorities to have a safety statement in place in their schools. Schools are obliged to identify possible hazards, assess the risks to health and safety and put appropriate safeguards in place. Primary schools are given an annual allocation of €3,809 plus €12.70 per pupil under the grant scheme for minor works which can be used entirely at the discretion of school management to address basic health and safety issues connected with the school infrastructure. In addition, the Department of Education and Science has set aside a contingency sum of €11 million to deal with emergency works in primary and post-primary schools, including emergency health and safety works, during 2004.

A key part of our strategy on capital expenditure will be grounded on the budget day announcement of multiannual allocations for capital investment in education projects covering the years 2004-08. All projects not going to construction as part of the 2004 school building programme are being reappraised with a view to including them as part of a multiannual building programme from 2005 onwards. These projects will also be reviewed in the context of a re-examination of the criteria governing the prioritisation of large-scale works in consultation with the education partners. The purpose of this review is to ensure that the criteria have optimum precision and are fully tuned to meeting the priority accommodation needs of the primary and post-primary sectors. When the review has been completed, a further list of priority projects will be approved to proceed through architectural planning this year. The Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Noel Dempsey, expects to be in a position to make a further announcement on these matters during 2004 and is very positive about that. Overall, the ongoing unprecedented level of investment in schools in County Kildare demonstrates the Department of Education and Science's commitment to ensuring that the long-term accommodation needs of the area are met. The Government's record in this regard is second to none.

The Dáil adjourned at 5.05 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 3 February 2004.