Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 29 Sep 2004

Vol. 589 No. 1

Business of Dáil: Motion.

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Ms Hanafin)

I move:

That, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders:

1. The Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. and, on the adjournment of Private Members' business, the Dáil shall adjourn forthwith.

2. (i) there shall be no Order of Business today within the meaning of Standing Order 26;

(ii) there shall be no Leaders' Questions today pursuant to Standing Order 26A;

(iii) oral questions shall not be taken today;

(iv) matters may not be raised today under the provisions of Standing Order 21(3) or 31;

(v) Private Members' business shall be taken today for 90 minutes immediately on the conclusion of the proceedings on the motion on the nomination of members of the Government and shall also take place tomorrow, 30 September, directly after the Order of Business and shall be brought to a conclusion after 90 minutes on that day;

(vi) business shall be suspended for 30 minutes today on the conclusion of this motion relating to sittings and business of the Dáil.

3. The proceedings on the motion on the nomination of members of the Government shall be taken on the resumption of business following the suspension as provided for in paragraph 2(vi) above and shall be brought to a conclusion after three hours by one question which will be put from the Chair, any division demanded thereon shall be taken manually, and the following arrangements shall apply:

(i) the speech of the Taoiseach and of the leader of the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case;

(ii) the speech of each other Member, who shall be called upon in the following sequence, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case:

Government

Fine Gael

Government

Labour

Government

Technical Group

(iii) Members may share time; and

(iv) a member of the Government or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes.

Mr. Kenny

I move amendment No. 1:

To delete paragraph 2(ii) and substitute the following:

"(ii) that Leaders' Questions pursuant to Standing Order 26A shall be deferred today and taken on Thursday, 30 September, at 10.30 a.m.".

I have also tabled amendment No. 2 which states: "In paragraph 3, line 6, to delete "3 hours" and substitute "5 hours"". I have tabled these amendments because this is the first meeting of the Dáil since the summer and, as Taoiseach's questions will not be taken today, I would like them to be taken tomorrow morning. I understand the Taoiseach is to announce the Ministers of State as well as new members of the Government at 3.30 p.m. and appropriate time should be set aside for discussion on that. I recommend five hours for that discussion. It appears the only safe Member on the Government side is Deputy Walsh. Perhaps the emphasis should be on the line in the prayer, "happily ended".

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has two amendments. He has moved amendment No. 1 and has spoken to both of them. Is that correct?

Mr. Kenny

Yes.

Mr. Rabbitte

My party supports both amendments. I make no issue of the fact that there are no Leaders' Questions today or questions to the Taoiseach, given this day. However, it is entirely reasonable that we should have Leaders' Questions and Taoiseach's Questions in the normal way tomorrow.

On the amendment for an extension, if I heard the Fine Gael leader correctly, of two hours of debate on the appointment of the Government that time is, if anything, too short.

Mr. McCormack

It is too long.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Taoiseach has been discussing it since 11 June last while the media have been debating it for three or four months. This House is apparently supposed to dispose of it in three hours before the adjournment. That is entirely inadequate. My party will have two slots to contribute on whatever changes are proposed. Other colleagues who want to contribute are in the same position. It is entirely too short and, for that reason, I too support the amendment.

Mr. Sargent

The Green Party has no hesitation or difficulty in supporting these amendments. Our party will probably get 12 minutes to respond to the raft of changes that will be announced. Having had a summer recess during which the Government was uncannily quiet and behaving itself for reasons that have been speculated upon by those seeking to report and those seeking preferment, it is important that we should resume and get down to the business of holding the Government to account. The amendments seek to do so and the Green Party asks the Government to accommodate the need for Leaders' Questions and to provide more time so that smaller parties are not unfairly disadvantaged by not having enough time to comment fully in the debate on the proposed changes, which we expect the Taoiseach to provide.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

As other Deputies have stated, we have no Order of Business, no Leaders' Questions, no Taoiseach's questions, we have no opportunity to raise urgent matters and, even at the start of business, we have no Taoiseach. I was not aware of the proposition from Deputy Kenny to amend the Government proposal on taking Leaders' Questions tomorrow and I am not sure that is necessarily the correct approach. That should have happened today. It is absolutely correct and it should be expected that the Taoiseach should come to the House today to face the questioning of the leaders of the Opposition parties. There is no good reason for deferral of the normal expected practice of the House on the resumption after such a long break.

I strongly object to the Government's proposition. I will reluctantly agree to the proposal in Deputy Kenny's amendment and, in particular, the element that seeks to extend the time for participation in the debate soon to the addressed by the House. I emphasise that real and important issues need to be addressed and the Taoiseach should be here to address them, not least of which is the indication of a proposed statement by the Northern Secretary of State, Paul Murphy, that the British Government is considering unilateral action on an amendment to the Good Friday Agreement and its outworking in terms of the business of the Assembly. It is an internationally binding Agreement. I would like to hear the Taoiseach's response to that statement and that revelation this morning. It is a serious matter.

Mr. J. Higgins

We have waited for months to have the Taoiseach and the Government accountable to the people on critical issues that face us. Over the months in which the Dáil was not sitting, for example, 1,300 jobs in Aer Lingus were wiped out and the privatisation of our national airline was plotted behind the scenes with the Government in consonance with a management team engaged in a massive conflict of interest. They were appointed allegedly to guard the rights of the taxpayer but, in reality, they were plotting for their own massive enrichment by privatising this national asset.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have a debate on this. This is a narrow procedural motion about how we do our business this afternoon.

Mr. J. Higgins

I cannot wait until next week for an opportunity to question the Taoiseach on many issues, one of the most critical being the future of our national airline and thousands of its workers. The Taoiseach should attend the Dáil, if not today, at the very latest tomorrow morning to answer such questions. It is incumbent upon the Government to provide answers for ordinary people through public representatives such as myself.

Ms Hanafin

As this is the first day back, we are devoting the whole of Government time to discussing the ministerial nominations. The Opposition is correct in so far as it would take far longer than three hours to highlight the Government's progress over the past two and a half years——

(Interruptions).

Ms Hanafin

——and our plans for the next two and a half years.

Mr. Durkan

That is good.

Ms Hanafin

That being said, we are willing to be modest today and to confine our contributions to three hours.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Minister of State has a lot to be modest about.

Mr. Ring

Where is the Minister of State going?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister of State, without interruption, please.

Ms Hanafin

I know the Opposition will take its opportunity as well. The Taoiseach will be in the House tomorrow to take the Order of Business as usual on a Thursday. Mar sin, tá súil agam go nglacfaidh an Teach leis an rún atá os ár gcomhair.

Question put: "That the words proposed to be deleted stand."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 78; Níl, 61.

Tá

• Ahern, Dermot.
• Ahern, Michael.
• Ahern, Noel.
• Ardagh, Seán.
• Blaney, Niall.
• Brady, Johnny.
• Brady, Martin.
• Browne, John.
• Callanan, Joe.
• Callely, Ivor.
• Carey, Pat.
• Carty, John.
• Cassidy, Donie.
• Collins, Michael.
• Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.
• Coughlan, Mary.
• Cregan, John.
• Cullen, Martin.
• Curran, John.
• Davern, Noel.
• de Valera, Síle.
• Dempsey, Noel.
• Dempsey, Tony.
• Dennehy, John.
• Devins, Jimmy.
• Ellis, John.
• Fahey, Frank.
• Finneran, Michael.
• Fitzpatrick, Dermot.
• Fleming, Seán.
• Gallagher, Pat The Cope.
• Glennon, Jim.
• Hanafin, Mary.
• Harney, Mary.
• Haughey, Seán.
• Healy-Rae, Jackie.
• Jacob, Joe.
• Keaveney, Cecilia.
• Kelleher, Billy.
• Kelly, Peter.
• Killeen, Tony.
• Kirk, Seamus.
• Kitt, Tom.
• Lenihan, Brian.
• Lenihan, Conor.
• McCreevy, Charlie.
• McDowell, Michael.
• McEllistrim, Thomas.
• McGuinness, John.
• Martin, Micheál.
• Moloney, John.
• Moynihan, Donal.
• Moynihan, Michael.
• Mulcahy, Michael.
• Nolan, M.J.
• Ó Cuív, Éamon.
• Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
• O’Connor, Charlie.
• O’Dea, Willie.
• O’Donnell, Liz.
• O’Donoghue, John.
• O’Donovan, Denis.
• O’Flynn, Noel.
• O’Keeffe, Batt.
• O’Malley, Fiona.
• O’Malley, Tim.
• Parlon, Tom.
• Power, Peter.
• Power, Seán.
• Roche, Dick.
• Sexton, Mae.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Smith, Michael.
• Treacy, Noel.
• Wallace, Dan.
• Wallace, Mary.
• Walsh, Joe.
• Wright, G.V.

Níl

• Allen, Bernard.
• Boyle, Dan.
• Breen, James.
• Broughan, Thomas P.
• Bruton, Richard.
• Burton, Joan.
• Connaughton, Paul.
• Cowley, Jerry.
• Crawford, Seymour.
• Crowe, Seán.
• Cuffe, Ciarán.
• Deasy, John.
• Deenihan, Jimmy.
• Durkan, Bernard J.
• English, Damien.
• Enright, Olwyn.
• Gilmore, Eamon.
• Gogarty, Paul.
• Gormley, John.
• Gregory, Tony.
• Hayes, Tom.
• Healy, Seamus.
• Higgins, Joe.
• Higgins, Michael D.
• Hogan, Phil.
• Howlin, Brendan.
• Kehoe, Paul.
• Kenny, Enda.
• Lynch, Kathleen.
• McCormack, Padraic.
• McGinley, Dinny.
• McHugh, Paddy.
• McManus, Liz.
• Mitchell, Olivia.
• Morgan, Arthur.
• Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.
• Murphy, Gerard.
• Naughten, Denis.
• Noonan, Michael.
• Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• O’Dowd, Fergus.
• O’Keeffe, Jim.
• O’Shea, Brian.
• O’Sullivan, Jan.
• Pattison, Seamus.
• Penrose, Willie.
• Perry, John.
• Quinn, Ruairí.
• Rabbitte, Pat.
• Ring, Michael.
• Ryan, Eamon.
• Sargent, Trevor.
• Sherlock, Joe.
• Shortall, Róisín.
• Stagg, Emmet.
• Stanton, David.
• Timmins, Billy.
• Twomey, Liam
• Upton, Mary.
• Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hanafin and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Durkan and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

Amendment declared lost.

An Ceann Comhairle

We now come to deal with amendment No. 2 in the name of Deputy Kenny.

Mr. Kenny

May I make a point?

An Ceann Comhairle

The amendment has already been discussed with amendment No. 1.

Mr. Kenny

I have made my point in speaking to these two amendments in the debate on amendment No. 1. I see the results of the vote and I do not wish to upset unduly those who want to celebrate——

Mr. Kelleher

Unlike Mayo.

Mr. Kenny

——or those whose remit in Government is happily ended. I will not move the second amendment because people throughout the country are waiting for the chairs to be filled and the announcements to be made by which all problems that ever existed are to be sorted by this new look whatever it is.

Amendment No. 2 not moved.

Question, "That the motion be agreed to", put and declared carried.

Sitting suspended at 2.55 p.m. and resumed at 3.30 p.m.