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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 24 Nov 2004

Vol. 593 No. 2

Roads Infrastructure: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by Deputy Gilmore on Tuesday, 23 November 2004:
That Dáil Éireann,
considering:
—the necessity to improve transport links along the Cavan-Dublin corridor;
—the importance of the Hill of Tara national monument and its environs;
—the inevitable road construction delays which will result and the inevitable destruction of heritage if the National Roads Authority persists with its current plan to build the M3 through the Tara-Skryne area; and
—that the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is currently considering his options under the National Monuments Act;
calls on the Government to:
—address the current transport problems on this corridor by proceeding immediately with the Dunshaughlin, Kells and Navan bypasses, by other road improvements and the provision of a Navan-Dublin rail link;
—direct the NRA to immediately reconsider other options for the proposed M3; and discontinue its plans to route the M3 through the Tara-Skryne Valley.
Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:
To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:
"commends the Government's commitment and proactive approach in the delivery of the upgraded national roads network:
—notes the Government's commitment to the protection of our national heritage and the preservation of archaeological sites and features;
—notes the ongoing liaison between the NRA and the national monuments division of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government in preserving our national heritage and with dealing with archaeological sites and features in accordance with best practice;
—notes that the roads programme is being implemented in full accord with the code of practice on archaeology for the national roads programme agreed with the then Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht in 2000;
—commends the National Roads Authority, NRA, on its commitment and investment in placing archaeological issues at the centre of the road planning process — evident in the discovery of so many previously unrecorded areas of historical-archaeological importance;
—notes that the national roads investment programme is being implemented as part of the National Development Plan 2000-2006 and supports the objectives of the national spatial strategy;
—confirms the importance of the transport corridor that links the north west, Cavan and north Meath to Dublin as one of the busiest in the country;
—notes that the Government investment in our road network is essential to provide for balanced regional investment and is delivering shorter, safer and superior road journeys;
—notes the comprehensive statutory public consultation procedures in place under the Roads Act 1993, which are also being supplemented by extensive non-statutory local consultations by road authorities; and
—emphasises the importance of public private partnerships in harnessing the necessary skills and finance to support the earlier completion of the Government's ambitious national road infrastructure targets.".
—(Minister for Transport).

I wish to share my time with Deputies Wallace, Brady and Ellis.

It may be obvious but it is worth restating that I am a Meath man. Pride in Meath runs through me like a message through a stick of rock. I am proud of Meath. Like everyone else in the House, my location and family place is a central point of reference in my life, in my mental map and my sense of heritage. The fact that I am a history graduate adds to my fascination with history, heritage and the past.

Ireland, indeed Europe, has few sites as significant historically as Tara. It is part of our ethos, our memory and our archaeological wealth. It is part of what makes us Irish. Some may think that is over the top, but I do not. I would never and could never do anything or support a policy that would be to the detriment of Tara or its surrounds. I venture to say that no one from County Meath would do so. No one is more committed to guarding our heritage and our history. I speak not just for myself but for Meath people generally. I believe it is our collective duty to protect our heritage and our history in a way that serves the needs of our citizens in the present and into the future.

The needs of the residents of Meath are not adequately served by our roads. The problem is simple. Towns like Dunshaughlin, Navan and Kells are choked with traffic which does not move. This traffic delivers immediate and measurable health damage. Those towns are smothering in the fumes of cars, lorries and trucks which cannot move. We know the damage the fumes do to all of us, but particularly to our children and our older people. Our children and older people are entitled to clean air in their home place. That is a simple and fundamental entitlement which people no longer enjoy because of the necessary growth in the use of cars.

The daily tasks of shopping, meeting friends and sharing neighbourhood information are all made more difficult and less pleasurable because of the level of traffic passing through these locations. The M3 will reduce the level of traffic passing through Dunshaughlin by 75%, Navan by 78% and Kells by 90%, bringing real and tangible benefits to the residents and the businesses in those towns.

The problems do not only affect the people trying to go about the business of living in our towns, they also affect the people who are moving through those towns. It takes ages for drivers to go through and the time spent is fruitless, pointless and frustrating. It is not easy to measure the damage to the health of drivers but it is real. It is not easy to measure the economic cost of traffic delays but they are also real.

The economy of Meath is being choked and suffocated. The lack of a proper road infrastructure has hindered the social, economic and tourism development of the county for decades. This cannot be allowed to continue indefinitely. However, the Labour Party motion would mean that it would continue indefinitely. The proper, sensitive and speedy development of the M3 is vitally important for the development of County Meath. This development is urgent.

Against that overwhelming and imperative need, the Labour Party motion must be seen as a definition of hypocrisy. The Labour Party has shown little interest in Meath until now. It cannot even get people elected to Meath County Council. The Labour Party's sudden involvement and interest in Meath does not demonstrate a passion for the environment, concern for the heritage of Meath or commitment to the real needs of the people of the area. It demonstrates in the most crudely obvious way a need to do something spectacular in Meath to try to make some impact at the upcoming by-election. It is no more and no less.

Is that the best the Minister can do? He is capable of a more coherent argument than that.

The motion before the House is disingenuous. Labour Deputies talk about building bypasses around Dunshaughlin and Kells and leaving the bit in between. They want everyone to have another look at the bit in the middle. That runs so counter to good planning, on which we often get lectures from Deputy Gilmore and the Labour Party, that it should be remembered for all time as an illustration of Labour Party thinking and forward planning. It is cheap, opportunistic and highly illogical. It makes no sense whatsoever. One cannot build two ends of a road and then decide where to build the bit in the middle.

The Government is doing that all over the country.

If one presented that scenario to a child of ten he would quickly tell one it did not make sense. The Labour Party knows, or should know, it does not make sense. Not only does it not make sense, it demonstrates no concern for commuters or residents of County Meath.

For the length of time the Minister's party has been in government they should have done something about that problem.

If the Labour Party logic was followed it would consign the residents of Meath to another 20 or 30 years of plans, counter-plans and arguments.

The Minister's party has not built the road in its seven and a half years in office.

It started in my time and it will finish in my time.

It will not. It will not happen in the Minister's lifetime.

The Labour Party seeks to disenfranchise the residents of Meath. I listened to the Labour Party Members very carefully last night. They are threatening to remove this decision from the people of Meath and to take it to the highest international court.

We are not. The Minister was not here to listen to the debate last night.

The message I heard loud and clear from the Labour Party last night was that the lowly people of County Meath would be better off bowing before pressure from the Labour Party.

The people of Meath have no say in the matter.

The people of Meath are being told to ignore logic, forget about the careful planning which has gone into the proposed new road and bow to the pressure or be taken through every court in the land and outside.

That is not what we said and the Minister knows that. That is a distortion.

That is what the Labour Party dressed up in nice language last night, which I listened to very carefully and read again this morning. The people of Meath must do what the Labour Party wants or else the road will never be built.

When will the road be built?

The road system of County Meath until the relatively recent past was woeful. Improvement started in 1997 and will continue. A Fianna Fáil led Government started the building of roads in Meath which the county deserved and needed. The proposed new road is urgently needed. We committed ourselves to providing the infrastructure necessary for the economic development of Meath. That economic development has been badly hindered by a lack of infrastructure and by the absence of the necessary roads. Not only has Meath suffered because of that lack, so also has the north west, Cavan and other counties along the route of the N3. The Labour Party is trying to hinder the next necessary, essential and pivotal step in that progress, the proper, sensitive and speedy development of the M3. The Labour Party, which has little or no support in County Meath, has some neck in putting this kind of motion before the House.

The Minister has some neck making a speech like that after seven and a half years in office and having done nothing about it. If the people of Meath are stuck in traffic it is his fault.

The truth hurts. The road would not be there only I started it.

The truth hurts. Is the Minister taking credit for it?

Will he let the record show it?

I am glad to speak to the amendment. The proposed M3, which is under debate, will provide over 60 km of motorway, to run from Clonee to north of Kells on the Meath-Cavan border at Whitegate. Before the Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, leaves the Chamber I compliment him on moving the project forward while he was Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. Having been a member of Meath County Council for many years, I heard the recurring debate on traffic jams in my town of Kells, as well as in Navan and in Deputy Mary Wallace's area of Dunshaughlin.

On numerous occasions in the past, successive Governments of various parties neglected to provide alternative bypasses for those towns. In 1997, following pressure from councillors in County Meath, including myself and Deputy MaryWallace, and from the public, the Government set about providing a proper roads infrastructure for the county, under the guidance of the Taoiseach and the then Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Noel Dempsey.

Between 15,000 and 28,000 cars crawl through the town of Kells every day, with traffic backing up at Navan and Dunshaughlin. County Meath has the fastest growing population of any county outside Dublin. The population has grown by more than 22% in the past six years. It now stands at approximately 135,000 and is expected to increase to 180,000 by 2012.

Clearly, the present infrastructure can no longer meet the demands placed upon it. Even my colleagues in the opposition would agree that spending four hours a day commuting to and from work severely impacts on many people's lives and is unacceptable. The situation is causing hardship to many of my constituents in north Meath, as well as in counties Cavan and Westmeath.

On completion, the M3 will enable motorists to bypass Kells as well as Dunshaughlin and Navan. The road will also cater for traffic from other towns and villages in County Meath. In this way, the M3 will make life better both for people living in those towns and for motorists using the roads. The M3 will provide safer, faster travel for approximately 22,000 vehicles a day.

At the moment, there is a high incidence of road accidents on the N3, which is unfortunate, but the new road will reduce accident rates by up to 50%. I appreciate that Opposition Members tabled this motion based on their deep attachment to our Celtic heritage but, while that is commendable, I believe it is misguided. The National Roads Authority and Meath County Council, in conjunction with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, have taken every precaution under the National Monuments (Amendment) Act 2004, which introduced new procedures for approved road projects.

Fianna Fáil is committed to preserving our heritage. It was the party responsible for elevating the heritage portfolio to a Cabinet position. The Opposition has made much of the threat from the proposed M3 to the ancient site of Tara. The reality is that the new motorway route lies 1.5 km east of the limit of the record of a monuments-designated area, and east of the existing N3. In other words, as it passes through the Tara-Skryne Valley, the motorway will be a greater distance from the Hill of Tara than the existing N3 Dublin-Navan road.

The Labour Party has severely criticised the route which was chosen after exhaustive research, taking into consideration safety, cost and technical issues, as well as environmental and archaeological sensitivities. For example, on the Dunshaughlin-Navan section of the scheme, which is closest to the Hill of Tara, ten potential routes were identified and considered. For this section, each of the ten routes was professionally evaluated with reference to the factors listed above and the impact that the road might potentially have on an area of immense historical importance. It was only when all these factors had been assessed by a team of professionals that the route was chosen.

The route concerned was considered to be the best one, not only for servicing traffic demands but also regarding its impact on properties and local communities, in addition to its overall impact on the local environment.

The chosen route was then considered by An Bord Pleanála as part of the planning process. The board conducted what was the most extensive oral hearing for a road scheme in the history of the State, lasting 28 days, before planning approval was finally granted. Perhaps the Labour Party is unaware of the extensive consultation and research that went into choosing the route. The party has proposed upgrading the existing N3 Dublin-Navan road instead, which is not feasible.

As my colleague, Deputy O'Connor, pointed out in the debate yesterday, there are 62 house or farm entrances, 47 field entrances and two commercial entrances on to the existing N3 between Dunshaughlin and Navan. Closing these access points would require the provision of a series of local access roads, dramatically increasing the footprint of the road scheme and leading to increased severance and environmental impact. Widening the existing road would involve demolition and encroachment on the existing properties.

Furthermore, there are 184 houses adjacent to the existing road between Dunshaughlin and Navan. Perhaps Opposition Members will tell us what they would say to local people who would clearly be adversely affected if this route were chosen.

The Labour Party's newest recruit and by-election hopeful, Councillor Dominic Hannigan, provided his own solution to the roads infrastructure problem in County Meath, without even knowing what he was talking about. He suggested in the Irish Independent that the solution was to build bypasses around Kells, Navan and Dunshauglin, while a redesign of the proposed motorway could be undertaken. This is totally misguided and would double the destruction of the natural landscape, possibly including archaeological remains, when constructing the new roads as well as the motorway. It would double the cost by effectively building two parallel roads, in addition to doubling the delay.

Does the Labour Party seriously think it would not take years to start designing new bypasses, purchase even more farmers' land by compulsory purchase order and then build the road? The M3 is ready to start, pending the resolution of archaeological issues. Labour's basic message would appear to be, "Double the misery for the people of County Meath and totally waste taxpayers' money."

The M3 motorway is a much needed project, consistent with both the national development plan and the national spatial strategy. It is vital infrastructure which will contribute to the ongoing success of the local and regional economy, and will bring better balanced regional development, improving safety and access to and from Dublin, including the port and airport.

The M3 project will result in reductions of through traffic of 75% in Dunshaughlin, 78% in Navan and 90% in my town of Kells. It is estimated that as traffic volumes continue to grow, between 30 and 60 minutes will be knocked off peak journey times between Kells and Clonee as a result of the construction of the scheme.

Having used the N3 for 20 years to come to Dublin two or three times a week, I was put off it in recent years by the volume of traffic and subsequent delays. I now use the N4 since the bypasses were opened at Longford and Mullingar.

That shows that bypasses work.

The bottom line is that the bypasses work as far as the towns are concerned but traffic jams now exist in places like Clonard, Enfield and Edgeworthstown, which means that bypasses only represent a short-term solution to the roads problem.

In my position as Chairman of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport, I propose to hear submissions from the various groups interested, namely, the commercial groups, the local chambers of commerce, local authorities and others regarding this road. The road affects my part of the country as much as anywhere else. Many people from south Leitrim use the N3 and its poor quality has been a deterrent to development in the north west. It is imperative on me as on other Members of the House to ensure we have a level playing pitch regarding the development of the country. This can only be brought about by giving each area equal access.

Having been on the road today and seen the two and a half mile tailback going into Dunshaughlin at 5.30 this evening and the four mile tailback from the Columban Fathers residence in Dalgan Park into Navan, it is time somebody took action even if this means that some people's aspirations must be hurt in the process. For the development of the north west, including Cavan, Meath and south Leitrim as well as south Donegal, it is imperative that this road proceeds as quickly as possible.

In the context of building roads, the progress being made on the M4 is testament to what can be done where there is a will. In this case certain people neither have the will nor the way to have the M3 built.

Legitimate concerns exist over the protection of the Tara-Skryne Valley as well as the needs of our residents to get to and from work. In this debate we find these two competing, the people who object to the motorway out of their concern for the Tara-Skryne Valley and the people who do not want further delays on this much needed road. The commuters who sit in their cars for four hours every day do not want the road delayed further. The proposal has been on the table for more than five years. Even if construction begins in 2006 it will be 2010 before it is completed. In the meantime the Meath people who live on roads such as the Ratoath to Skyrne road are under siege from the traffic using this county road instead of travelling on the N3.

Villages such as Kilbride, Dunsany, Kilmessan and Bective and the county roads that link them are all equally affected. These roads are not able for the volume of traffic bypassing the N3 and using county roads. The speeding of cars at 60 mph on these county roads puts local families and children in constant danger. Even though Garda checkpoints were introduced at the request of residents and the findings are that motorists are within the 60 mph speed limit, the impact for pedestrians and children on these county roads is enormous. These people deserve our representation in Leinster House. They are crying out for a resolution to the ongoing objections to the motorway so that they can have some quality of life and safety on their county roads.

The Opposition proposals before the House would not help these people because further delays on the Dunshaughlin-Navan road would mean the commuter traffic would use the Skyrne-Ratoath and Dunsany-Bective roads, not to mention the difficulties, as outlined by Deputies Johnny Brady and the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Dempsey, that would be experienced by existing residents on the N3. The problem would be exacerbated for them by improving the road at either end while leaving the stretch of road in between in a bottleneck. Who wants to live at the beginning and end of a motorway without being able to get on to the road? This will happen to the residents who live between Dunshaughlin and Navan if we proceed with the proposal before us.

At the outset I said that legitimate concerns exist over the protection of the Tara-SkryneValley and in moving the project forward it is important these issues are addressed. Meath County Council has applied to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government for directions on carrying out the archaeological works associated with the M3 approved road project. It is important to take a very professional approach to protect our heritage and archaeology in the Tara-Skryne Valley. I am not unhappy about the fact that the full test procedures are being applied to the council and the NRA by An Bord Pleanála and by the heritage section of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government because the protection of our archaeological heritage is important to all of us.

In his address here last night the Minister for Transport gave considerable detail of the test trenching process and other archaeological methods being applied. It is fascinating that work such as this adds long forgotten sites to our archaeological record and it is equally interesting that considerably fewer sites per kilometre have been found on the M3 route than on the M1, which is only a few miles away in east Meath. However, the people in east Meath have their road to take them to Dublin and the heavy traffic has disappeared from their county roads, while we continue to suffer in areas like Ratoath, Skyrne, Kilmessan, Dunsany and the areas to the east and west of the N3.

The M3 motorway is a key part of the plan to upgrade the overall road network. It will significantly improve road transport connections commencing at the dual carriageway at Clonee and continuing to Kells. Deputy Ellis referred to the transport corridor that provides links to the north west. He said he left that road to join the other national routes to come to Dublin. At least he stays on national routes, for which we thank him, unlike all the traffic that comes up and down the county roads by my house and other roads in the Ratoath area.

Our biggest problem in south County Meath is the sheer volume and speed of traffic on our county roads because they cannot travel on the N3. As a directly elected representative of the residents of the Tara-Skryne Valley I believe it important that I put across today the views of my constituents who sit for four hours per day in their cars. That takes from their quality of life and they deserve representation. Equally those locked in their homes because they cannot get out on county roads in safety have no quality of life. At the same time we all want to be sensitive in protecting the archaeological heritage of the Tara-Skryne Valley.

The proposal by the Labour Party makes no sense to these people. It makes no sense to the commuters who spend four hours in their cars every day as they will just be caught in the bottleneck between Dunshaughlin and Navan. It makes no sense to the residents locked in their homes because of the danger of the speed and volume of traffic. It makes no sense for the protection of the Hill of Tara as it only moves the road closer to the Hill of Tara. The NRA proposal moves the M3 further away from the Hill of Tara than the existing N3 route. The Labour Party proposal would move it closer to the Hill of Tara.

To which paragraph of the Labour Party motion does the Deputy refer?

The Labour Party proposal and the proposal before the Seanad tonight make no sense to the people I represent.

I ask the Deputy to direct me to the paragraph in the Labour Party motion to which she is speaking. It is not contained in our motion. I do not know the proposal about which she is talking.

Was the Deputy ever on that road?

Where does the Labour Party suggest we put the road?

The motion calls on the Government to "direct the NRA to immediately reconsider other options for the proposed M3 and discontinue its plans to route the M3 through the Tara-Skryne Valley." This would leave all my commuters and residents in a worse position than at present.

That is different from what the Deputy said earlier.

The Labour Party proposal is not representative of the people I represent and is indicative, as the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey, said, that Labour does not have representation in County Meath and, therefore, does not have an ear to the ground regarding the views of the people.

That is not true.

Nobody wants to continue having to stay in cars for four hours every day, which is inhumane. The Labour Party expects them to sit in a bottleneck between Dunshaughlin and Navan, but we will not have that either.

The Deputy expects them to sit in their cars for the next 15 years while waiting for a motorway that will never be built.

As well as the Labour Party suggestion that they stay in the bottleneck between Dunshaughlin and Navan, motorists continue to hassle people in my village of Ratoath as well as Skyrne, Kilbride, Dunsany, Kilmessan and Bective by travelling east and west of the bottleneck, which is unacceptable. We must find a better solution. Let us work together for such a solution. The suggestion put to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government by Meath County Council at least tries to move on, suggesting that we protect the Tara and Skryne area by carrying out the archaeological work associated with the M3 project. If that was undertaken, it would clarify the situation and move on the project, giving some quality of life to the people I represent in south County Meath.

I commend the Labour Party and Deputy Gilmore for tabling the motion which the Green Party supports wholeheartedly.

To respond to the Fianna Fáil Members from the area, no one disagrees with the need to change the prison people are in when they commute for four hours a day. That is not the argument; the argument is if we are prepared to destroy our countryside and archaeological heritage in the process. Do we have to do that? The Labour Party is right — we do not.

Another reason for questioning this entire road development is that it simply will not work, it will not shorten the journey times that people are subject to. The National Roads Authority made a presentation in the Joint Committee on Transport last week which supported information from the EIS on the M50 road widening which clearly showed that almost from the opening of the widened road, which will have eight lanes, it will be completely congested. The head of the NRA said it will be so congested that we will need to start tolling access roads to the M50 or put traffic lights on it. No matter how wide we build a motorway between Kells and Clonee and no matter how super the roads in the country, I can tell the commuters in County Meath that it will not work, it will lead to a traffic light on the approach to the M50. They will queue there for the same four hours that they wait now. In transport terms this is madness and must stop.

There is an alternative, one that would guarantee that people would not spend four hours commuting. If the Government built a rail line and ran a proper commuter service to Navan and points beyond, servicing those towns, and it was run along the same lines as the high quality public transport system that my constituents have in south Dublin, it would solve the problems of long distance commuters that have been created by our transport patterns. That is what we should support, not a road which will destroy one of the most important archaeological sites in Europe.

We must assess transport not just on the basis of what the NRA can build but taking in environmental and social issues. A roads-based transport system is the most discriminatory transport system we could possibly have. Over 20% of households in this country do not have a car but Fianna Fáil does not care about them, despite the Taoiseach's recent nonsense about being a socialist.

This is the first argument that people on this side of the House and those represented by our opinion will win. We lost in the Glen of the Downs, in spite of the fact that we were right — there has been no decrease in journey time for people using that road. We lost in Carrickmines as corrupt rezoning ploughed a road through a national monument. When it comes to the M3, however, we will win because of the political change in this State and the realisation that the roads-based policy does not work. We are not willing to lose our archaeological past or give up our sense of ourselves and from whence we come. The current political mood questions where we are now and the way the Government wants to move forward. It is bent on building roads and servicing the building industry at whatever cost. That is its idea of progress. It is not progress, it is destruction, it is bad transport and social planning and, for a party that wraps itself in a republican mantle, it is destroying the essence of our heritage and our ability to understand it.

For those reasons, I commend the motion to the House. There is a real problem — people are unwilling to question the political idea that roads cannot be stopped and that the road-based transport system works. That attitude is changing.

Sinn Féin supports this Labour Party motion. Mr. Joe Reilly, a Sinn Féin councillor on Meath County Council, has been vocal in his criticism of the decision to route the M3 through the Tara and Skryne valley. He has called on numerous occasions for the delayed Dunshaughlin, Kells and Navan bypasses to be proceeded with as a matter of urgency.

The Minister for Communications, the Marine and Natural Resources stated that the construction of the three bypasses is not the best option. That would be correct in normal circumstances but given the catastrophe that the Department and the NRA have made of this project to date, the construction of the three bypasses at this late stage, following the complete lack of consultation and bad planning, is the only correct option.

No matter how much the Minister for Transport and the NRA play down the impact of the proposed routing on the archaeological heritage of the Tara-Skryne Valley, the evidence contradicts these assertions. Archaeological test trenching proved that there are many more archaeological sites on the route of the proposed motorway than initially claimed. Eminent archaeological experts from Ireland and abroad have testified to the archaeological importance of the Tara-Skryne Valley and have spoken about their dismay at the proposed routing of the motorway.

The Government got itself into this mess because it did not consult adequately with local communities or elected representatives. It should have learnt by now that taking time to consult in the initial stages saves time and money in the long run. The case has been made by many of those campaigning against the proposed route of the M3 that there are viable and realistic alternatives where both infrastructure and heritage can be accommodated. The single 64 kilometre construction contract for the M3 should be broken up into a number of contracts to ensure work on the bypasses and non-contentious sections of the route would not be further affected by archaeological concerns and delays in the Dunshaughlin to Navan section. The people of Meath and Cavan should not be forced to endure the current levels of traffic congestion because of the delays to one section of the proposed motorway. The best way to address the appalling congestion problems we have heard about from many contributors is to proceed immediately with the work on the bypasses.

Commuters are irate that despite the fact that Meath County Council approved a plan for a bypass of Kells in 1999, nothing has happened to date. Public transport in County Meath is seriously underdeveloped. As well as proceeding immediately with the construction of the bypasses, the Government must commit the necessary funding for the reopening of a rail link from Dublin to Navan. Traffic congestion is inevitable in the absence of proper public transport alternatives. Navan is one of the fastest growing towns in the State and a commuter rail service is vital and would make environmental sense.

It is proposed that this motorway should be constructed by way of public private partnership and should be tolled. The Government arbitrarily upgraded the road, which was to have been a dual carriageway, to motorway status just to apply a toll. Sinn Féin is opposed to PPPs as a method of infrastructure delivery. They do not make long-term economic sense and cost the State more in the long run. Road tolls are an additional stealth tax on motorists and the consequences of tolling this route for a person who lives in Cavan and travels to the southside of Dublin is that he will be ripped off three times — once between Cavan and Navan, a second time between Navan and Dublin and a third time by the Department's modern day highway men who are waiting to fleece him yet again on the M50 toll bridge.

Will the Department and the Minister display common sense at this late stage and revisit the issue by breaking up the contract before this gets any more ridiculous?

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for affording me the opportunity to speak on this Private Members' motion dealing with the M3 motorway and the importance of the hill of Tara and its environs as a national monument. There should never be a conflict between building motorways and respecting our national monuments. There is always a solution if people just open their minds and listen to constructive proposals.

I welcome the construction of quality roads and the upgrading of the national roads network. That is why I ask the NRA immediately to consider other options for the proposed M3 and to discontinue its plans to route it through the Tara-Skryne valley. It would make sense and also protect valuable resources such as Tara.

We need to address the current transport problems on this corridor by proceeding immediately with the Dunshaughlin, Kells and Navan bypasses, by other road improvements and the provision of a Navan-Dublin rail link. When will we wake up to the importance of rail links servicing the countryside and the Dublin area in particular? It would also lead to reduced traffic congestion in the capital. We need to invest in the railways and let them get on with the job of alleviating traffic reduction. If we do not act now, we will choke our capital city and destroy the environment. There does not have to be a conflict of interest between our transport needs and respect for the environment and archaeological sites.

One can look to the future to come up with new and progressive proposals, but at the same time the past must always be respected. Anyone who damages Tara or its surrounding area is guilty of environmental vandalism. I urge everyone participating in this debate to think now before it is too late. We cannot allow 6,000 years of history to be wiped out. We must remember our culture, history, the children and future generations, while not forgetting the enormous economic benefits Tara brings to this area.

In my previous day job as a teacher I must have brought hundreds of inner city Dublin pupils to this area on their school tours. There was always a sense of amazement and wonder when they visited sites they had learnt about in our school. These places make our history. They come alive and are an extremely valuable educational asset. This debate is more than just about roads. It is about sensible planning, quality transport services and our past. That is why I am supporting the motion in the House tonight. I urge all Deputies to support it.

If the Government and the NRA are serious about the protection of our national heritage and the preservation of historical sites, then the views expressed tonight on this major issue will be taken seriously. I urge all Deputies, cross-party, to support this motion.

I support the motion in the name of the Labour Party and commend the party for tabling it. In my view the running of a road such as this through the greater Tara area would be a destruction of our national heritage and archaeology. This is one of the rarest archaeological sites in Europe, if not the western world, and in my view it should be unthinkable that a motorway would run through it.

Representatives of the National Roads Authority recently attended a meeting of the Joint Committee on Transport. It was quite clear from its presentation that Dublin will be surrounded in a few years time by a ring of steel called the M50. That ring of steel, which is currently tolled, will be tolled further, as will the roads accessing it such as the one under discussion tonight. Those roads will also have traffic lights on them, so it will not be possible to significantly reduce the travel times for traffic into Dublin.

I believe that the priority transport system for access to Dublin, not just from Meath but from the entire country, should be rail. Rail lines should link all the major towns in the greater Dublin area to the capital and money and resources should be prioritised for that purpose.

I have a serious difficulty as regards the National Roads Authority itself. There is a large democratic deficit in the way it operates and is building the road system. A question cannot be asked by a Member of this House without him or her being told that the Minister for Transport has no responsibility for the NRA. The notion that the Minister has no responsibility for the roads programme should certainly be changed.

Finally, I object strongly to the section in the Government amendment which states that "the Government investment in our road network is essential to provide for balanced regional investment and is delivering shorter, safer and superior road journeys". In fact, the roads programme has been in the east of the country predominantly. The rest of the country, the south and west, have been bereft of any serious road development. In my own area, the N24, the bypasses at Tipperary town, Clonmel and Carrick-on-Suir have been on the backburner for years. If we want balanced regional development, roads in other areas of the country, apart from the east, should take priority at this stage.

I am happy to support this motion and I thank the Labour Party for supporting me when I was suspended from the Dáil last week. I also thank my Independent colleagues, the Green Party and Sinn Féin for their support. However, I do not thank Fine Gael for abstaining. I thought it was bad form. I include my constituency colleague, Deputy Ring, who abstained as well. I cannot understand that. If the shoe had been on the other foot, I am sure he would have had plenty to say about it.

I am pleased to support the motion which is both logical and commonsensical. There is much common sense in ensuring that there is a proper road from north to south on the west coast, but also on the east coast. This is logical. It follows that balanced regional development should be encouraged as much as possible. What the NRA has been doing militates against balanced regional development. If one looks at the mid-term review, the Indecon report on the National Development Plan 2000-2006, one sees that only 69% of the proposed spend was carried out for roads in the BMW area. This compares to 134% overspent for the south and east. It is obvious that there is a mis-spend here. I hope that will be rectified in the near future.

Balanced regional development would help the entire country. Some 20 million passengers use Cork and Dublin airports. Consider the projected 400,000 people going through Knock Airport in 2004, after 18 years. Would it not make more sense to build proper roads to Knock Airport to ensure that people could travel to this really beautiful airport instead of trying to bring 20 million people into Dublin and Cork airports? The €40 million that is needed this year for Knock Airport should be invested, instead of the pittance that is going in there. I am glad to support this motion.

In the two minutes available, I want to put on record my support for the motion before the House, with its emphasis on the hill of Tara national monument and its surroundings. I also support the assertion that current transport problems on this route should be addressed primarily by proceeding immediately with the provision of a Navan-Dublin rail link, as referred to by other Deputies, and indeed the long-awaited bypasses at Dunshaughlin, Kells and Navan.

I fundamentally support the immediate discontinuation of the Government's plans to route the M3 motorway through the Tara-Skryne Valley. An alternative to this motorway is essential, and I hope the Minister will agree that another option must be decided on. Listening to Deputy Wallace and others on the Government side tonight, however, that does not seem likely.

The plans of the Government and the National Road Authority to build a motorway through the Tara-Skryne Valley must be rejected. This area is a most important archaeological site. It contains in the surroundings of the hill of Tara the highest concentration of archaeological sites in the country. We are told that it is one of the largest and most important heritage sites in the world. Most of the sites are not even surveyed and will be lost forever if this misguided project goes ahead. It has even been alleged that when deciding on the route the National Roads Authority ignored its own archaeological consultants, who had advised that the road should be directed away from the area. If this is the case, then it is a disgrace and the Minister should reject the route now.

I would like to share my time with Deputy Michael D. Higgins.

Why is it that neither the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, nor any of his Ministers of State have not come into the House since the debate commenced? The Minister does not seem to be prepared to answer the debate in the time available to him.

Tara is, because of its associations, probably the most consecrated spot in Ireland, and its destruction will leave many bitter memories behind it.

The above is not a quote from one of the protesters against the proposed motorway through the Tara-Skryne valley. These words come from the London Times of 27 June 1902 and were written by none other than Douglas Hyde, George Moore and W. B. Yeats. Not since then has there been such an attack on Tara. On that occasion it was the British Israelites who were trying to dig up the hill looking for the Ark of the Covenant. Today we are defending the Hill of Tara from a threat much closer to home, an attack perpetrated by the Government parties who seem intent on ripping apart the Tara-Skryne Valley and destroying the intact and perfect landscape forever, employing the National Roads Authority as the instrument for its destruction.

We have been accused of tabling this motion on the basis of emotionalism, yet the road will destroy the most valuable archaeological, literary and historical site in the country which is revered all over the world. Its destruction has been likened to cultural vandalism akin to "ripping a knife through a Rembrandt". This sorry saga began with the proposal for a badly-needed bypass for Dunshaughlin in 1999, but within a year the development had become a motorway. Meantime, the towns of Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin filled up with more and more cars as the Dublin hinterland spread ever wider into the countryside, compliments of the zoners. Without the upgrade to the motorway and the huge delays, Dunshaughlin would be bypassed by now and the bypassing of Navan and Kells might have begun. Instead the hard-pressed commuters suffer more delays.

We all have a natural emotional attachment to and empathy with Tara. There is not a person in Ireland who has not heard of it or who does not understand its importance. It is not just a County Meath issue. We have a duty to protect Tara, not only for future generations but for the millions of emigrants and all those who claim Irish descent.

I have spoken before of our abandonment of the Irish who emigrated. Members of the Irish emigrant community have been moved to express their horror and disbelief at this proposal on thepetition organised electronically by the save the Tara-Skryne Valley group. One states:

A highway through this is perhaps one of the greatest natural disasters ever contemplated, equivalent to destroying the pyramids of Egypt to erect a parking lot. I am astonished the project has been contemplated in any seriousness.

A second is as follows: "Are you really going to send millions of tyres over the graves of the high kings?" The outrage at this motorway is not confined to Irish citizens or to the diaspora. Academics in the fields of Celtic studies and archaeology all over the world have objected to the development. In a letter to The Irish Times, the president of the American Institute of Archaeologists said:

We appeal to the Irish authorities as a matter of urgency to move this section of the M3 away from the Tara/Skryne valley and to save this precious legacy from our shared past for posterity.

Another letter, signed by 22 of the most eminent archaeological experts in the world in the discipline of Celtic studies, was also printed in The Irish Times. It states:

Tara is a virtually intact archaeological landscape of monuments with the Hill at the centre. Driving a four-lane motorway through the valley will destroy the integrity of this ancient landscape forever.

We urge the Irish Government to revoke the decision by An Bord Pleanála and to choose instead one of the other routes proposed for the M3. We also urge it to apply for World Heritage status for Tara so that it is preserved for future generations.

A further letter, signed by 30 academics from various fields of modern and medieval history from all over the world stated:

This . . . valley is one of the most culturally and archaeologically significant places in the world. Many monuments predate the Egyptian pyramids. It is precisely because it has remained intact, unlike many comparable continental sites, that it holds a special key to understanding the continuous progression of European civilisation.

Is it possible that all these highly respected academics are wrong? Tara is as much a symbol of our national identity as the harp or the tricolour. It dates back 6,000 years and during most of that period it has been used as a the major sacred site in the country.

The National Roads Authority continues the fiction that Tara is confined to the actual hill but this is not the case. It must be made clear and repeated to the point of boredom. The top of the hill that we call the Hill of Tara is only part of the much wider, integrated landscape that was used for thousands of years by our ancestors. We are all aware that motorways lead to development along their routes with a proliferation of housing, petrol stations and fast food outlets. Is that what we want for our premier archaeological and historical site?

The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, who refuses to come into the House for the debate, says he is taking advice from archaeologists but Tara is much more than archaeology. It is the heart that beats at the centre of all the early literature and history of the country. He should take advice from the experts and meet them as well as the National Roads Authority and Meath County Council archaeologists who will present only one side of the argument. He must listen to both sides before any decision can be made. It has been said that he is opposed to the building of a quarry in the Glen Ding Viking site in Wicklow. If a Viking site is worth preservation in his constituency, how much more important is the centre of our civilisation in the Tara-Skryne Valley?

Recently the Taoiseach visited the area and on return told the House he could not see Tara from the route of the proposed motorway. I would like to know who brought him there. It could only have been the National Roads Authority. It did not point out to him that he was standing on Tara, or that he should view the area from the hill, or from the Hill of Skryne. For the best view, he should view it from his helicopter.

The Taoiseach has declared himself one of the last socialists in the country and a republican. Let him also declare himself a man of cultural understanding who has the courage to be Taoiseach in the real sense of the word, that is, the leader or chief who defends Tara from its latest invaders. There is no doubt that the traffic problems in the counties surrounding Dublin are reaching crisis proportions and that decent roads are needed, but not this road. Why destroy Tara to save some undefined sum of money? Would we drive a road through Clonmacnoise or Glendalough or recycle the Book of Kells as scrap paper?

What will be the cost of this destruction? Nobody knows because we have little enough idea of what is there. Six to ten routes were examined by the National Roads Authority but it ignored the preferred route of its experts and chose this one because of a cost benefit analysis. It all came down to saving money. What will be the difference in the cost eventually? What did the longer route cost and what savings will be made when the costs of delays and archaeology have been paid? The latest estimate for the archaeological work is €30 million and the engineer has said the road will not be finished until 2010. What will be the price of Tara? Will it be €20 million, €30 million or €40 million? It is an incredible waste of money on completely unnecessary excavations.

We should learn from the mistakes made in other countries while we have the opportunity, including the dreadful mistake made by the British Government at Stonehenge where the road must be replaced by a tunnel at huge expense while it tries to row back on the damage it inflicted on its foremost archaeological and cultural landscape.

We have the time and the opportunity to avoid this catastrophe. We must re-assess the position, including all points of view, from dissenters and protesters, landscape architects, roads engineers and economists, with a view to finding a proper alternative. A longer more expensive route would probably be cheaper in the long run. We ask that the obvious solutions be arrived at. The bypasses should be built first, the public transport system should be improved so that people are not forced to use their cars adding to traffic problems in the larger Dublin area, the old railway line should be reopened and the Minister should reroute the remainder of the motorway away from the Tara-Skryne valley.

The bottom line is that we should not be here debating this motion. The Irish people should not have to defend Tara from an Irish Government. Future generations will blame this generation for the irreversible destruction of the landscape if this proposal goes ahead. Reacting to another proposal to build a road around Tara, Thomas Davis said:

If they persist in this brutal outrage against so precious a landmark of Irish history and civilisation, then, frankly, I say that if the law will not reach them public opinion shall, and they shall bitterly repent the desecration.

I welcome the opportunity of saying a few words on this important issue. I do so as a former Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht with responsibility for the built and natural heritage, which position I held between 1993 and 1997. I remember very clearly that the Discovery Programme, which was launched before I took office, was engaged in an investigation of the Tara archaeological landscape. I am sorry that Deputy de Valera, my successor, has left because she would confirm that Edel Bhreathnach's first volume of research on the history and literature of Tara was launched by me in 1995 when I was Minister with responsibility for heritage. Conor Newman's archaeological survey of Tara was launched by Deputy de Valera in 1997, the year I left office. These two fundamental archaeological works, which are definitive and scholarly, establish what is for any intelligent person the "Tara archaeological landscape". This entity cannot be reduced to sites discovered by the NRA in its work.

Is it not extraordinary that neither of the aforementioned experts on the archaeology of Tara was consulted on the issue we are debating and on which we are deciding tonight? I listened to the Minister's speech with great care last night and noted the differences between his Ministry and my former Ministry. I introduced legislation dealing with national monuments when I was Minister and I tried to ensure that matters of culture and heritage had equal status with the matters of concern to other Ministries. During my four years in office, I had to take actions in defence of heritage that opposed the actions of some of my colleagues in Cabinet.

The thinking on heritage at the time was such that the two respective Ministers responsible for the environment and heritage were equal, but that in a matter of heritage the Minister responsible for the latter would be the lead Minister. If the matter could not be resolved, one returned to Cabinet. This thinking became so offensive to the populist and philistine ethos of Fianna Fáil that it abolished the Department over which I had responsibility. Culture could not survive and was the first thing removed from the title of my Department. Afterwards, the heritage functions were transferred to the Department with responsibility for the environment such that it was clear that they would be under the thumb of the Minister responsible therefor. Everything has suffered as a result. The Chairman, for example, wrote to me to tell me that a question I tabled on the destruction of the species life of a river could not be raised in the Dáil as the Minister had no function in that area and that it was a matter for the Environmental Protection Authority. This is extraordinary in a democracy.

Heritage suddenly became a phenomenon that might or might not be considered within the Department with responsibility for the environment. The Department of the Environment and Local Government demolished accountability to this House by establishing the NRA. On listening to the Minister's speech last night, I noted that it is not he who is presiding over the Discovery Programme or new initiatives in archaeology. The NRA is pounding on and as it discovers more sites and hires archaeologists to do impact assessments and so forth, it almost becomes the guiding archaeological authority in a country with thousands of years of history.

It is not just ignorance but philistinism that allows one to conclude that the life-world, imaginative life and spiritual life of a people and the significance of Tara can be easily cast aside and that one can set up a false division between contemporary traffic needs and archaeological responsibility. This motion opens with a very clear recognition of the traffic problem of commuters and sets down different strategies by which it could be resolved in the short term without legal contest regarding the bypass. What is essentially wrong with this? It is not part of the grandiose thinking of the NRA, which is assigned the role of autobahn creator in contemporary Ireland. We must stand back on occasion and take account of the price of this thinking. The price is very serious in terms of our national heritage. People will examine the policies on this Government and state that heritage and consideration thereof has entirely expired.

Let us deal with truths. The speech made by Deputy Olivia Mitchell was unfortunate. For example, she suggested that it was almost a rent-a-crowd that was objecting to the proposed road. I have given details of the two main scholars who were not even consulted on the issue. The independent authorities chosen by the NRA to examine and evaluate the different routes came down strongly in favour of protecting the archaeological heritage and suggested that an immense price would be paid if it was not protected.

The operations of the NRA provide an example of imposition on the part of an unaccountable body using the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. It is time I said in the House that the NRA will always find archaeologists who need to work. It is dividing the archaeological community. However, those who are responsible for academic standards, both in practice in the field and in consideration of the importance of different sites, have been unanimous in their opposition to what is proposed. They are asking those responsible for the proposition to stand back because it will not be possible to reverse their actions. The carrying out of the proposition would not just be a mistake or the wrong option but would have an irreversible, appalling impact on something that has been part of the life-world of a people for generations.

As I have stated, the NRA's own independent experts issued an unequivocal warning about the route that is being recommended. They said it was an integral part of Tara's archaeological and historic landscape. I have some sympathy for those who posit Tara's importance in the spiritual life of people over long aeons. This is expressed in their culture and sometimes, but only in a limited sense, in their artefacts, and very much in their mythic understandings of themselves. Moreover, I sympathise with the concern that one would have in the Tara area a major floodlit interchange that would in turn invite a kind of development that is singularly inappropriate. That will be the badge of our times, measured against the long sweep of Ireland's heritage and history, be it mythic, spiritual or ecological. The Government that will be responsible for this should be remembered forever.

When I as Minister launched the first report of Dr. Edel Bhreathnach, I was in awe at the quality of the research, as was my successor Deputy de Valera regarding the second volume of research that was published. Why do this research if its impact is to be ignored? It was important that we had the findings stated for all time. In this regard, I give credit to my predecessor who founded the Discovery Programme in 1992. The international position on the research published in 1993 was that Ireland was recognising, with its scholarship, the importance of a site of international significance. That is why the American Society of Archaeology and the British Society of Archaeology and every significant professor of archaeology in Europe are unanimous that it is a terrible insanity to proceed with the proposed road. It is simply wrong to say that, because the NRA is stating it will dig investigative trenches, it is acceptable to proceed. Incidentally, such trenches manage to miss much that is of archaeological importance and do not accord with best practice, as was contended last night.

It is not a matter of some arcane notion of heritage standing in the way of progress. We can meet our transport needs responsibly without this appalling, invasive destruction of our heritage.

I am fully aware of the rich archaeological landscape in County Meath, the importance of the Hill of Tara and its significance to our national heritage. Meath County Council and the National Roads Authority are also aware of the special place the Hill of Tara holds in the national consciousness, and of their responsibility to protect it and the cultural heritage of County Meath. A great deal of time and expertise has been given to this project and the route was carefully chosen to avoid the important core zone around Tara.

I listened carefully to the various contributions to this debate. It is clear that there is general agreement on the need to upgrade the N3. The road is not capable of carrying current traffic volumes safely and the impact of the congestion and delays on local communities and road users is not sustainable. The solution the NRA and Meath County Council are pursuing to deal with these problems, namely, the full upgrade of the N3 along its full length between Clonee and Kells, has been developed following an extensive planning and consultation process involving detailed assessment of a range of transport, environmental, archaeological, safety and cost factors. The process culminated in approval of the project by An Bord Pleanála following an extensive oral hearing. Given the location of the project, archaeological considerations were to the forefront at all stages in project planning.

Nevertheless, some continue to believe that the project should not be undertaken, that an alternative route should be used or local bypasses should be provided. The reality is that a total of ten route options in four broad corridors were examined as part of the route selection study for the Dunshaughlin-Navan section of the scheme and considered not feasible. Deputies referred to various options in their contributions. All these were assessed at the planning stage. For example, the on-line improvement of the existing N3 Dublin-Navan road is not feasible. There are 62 houses-farm entrances, 47 field entrances and two commercial entrances on to the existing N3 between Dunshaughlin and Navan. Closing these accesses would require the provision of a series of local access roads, dramatically increasing the footprint of the road scheme and leading to increased severance and environmental impact. In addition, 184 houses would be affected.

A further route considered was a route to the west of the Hill of Tara. It would have a serious impact on the Hill of Tara due, in particular, to visual intrusion and was, as a consequence, ruled out. In addition, a western route avoiding the Hill of Tara would have been remote from the existing road network requiring long tie-backs to the existing road, with associated implications for the environment and severance of properties and farms.

Deputies also referred to a route to the east. This route, east of the Hill of Skryne, would have a significant impact on the Hill of Skryne and its associated upstanding archaeological structure due, in particular, to visual intrusion impacts. An eastern route would entail a high level bridge across the River Boyne, giving rise to significant visual intrusion problems. It is clear that a wide range of alternative routes were considered. It is important to remember that a range of factors in addition to archaeology, all real life issues, such as the environment, impact on people and their homes, land severance, traffic, engineering and cost considerations, must be taken into account and balanced carefully in coming to a conclusion on the best route.

Another issue raised in the debate last evening was the availability of the geophysical surveys. The results of these surveys were reported in great detail in the EIS and a full copy of the technical reports were made available to the national monuments division of the then Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands. It should also be noted that as geophysical surveys cannot identify all archaeological sites, a major programme of test trenching was carried out. This is the most effective method of identifying any archaeology that may be present.

It is clear that a great effort has been made, and continues to be made, by the NRA and Meath County Council to mitigate the impact of the proposed road on the archaeological heritage. I ask that a number of key points be borne in mind in considering the issues involved, first, the proposed route is located well away from the Hill of Tara and, second, major resources are being deployed to ensure that the impact of the project on our archaeological heritage is minimised.

I wish to share my time with Deputy Rabbitte.

This Labour Party motion is a democratic opportunity and offering by the Labour Party to Fianna Fáil to give a second thought to what it proposes to do in regard to some of our cultural heritage which is irreplaceable. Someone referred earlier to the Minister of State, Deputy de Valera. It is difficult to know what the founder of Fianna Fáil, Eamon de Valera, would think of the proposal put forward by the party he led.

The Minister of State said that all the options were examined, but I wonder is that the case. Anyone who is familiar with the route of the N3 and the daily traffic misery faced by many commuters who relocated to Dunshaughlin, Navan and Kells will be aware of the sheer misery of the commuter trek which is visited on them. It is worth asking why is this commuter trek so miserable, particularly when one reaches the bottleneck of the M50, the Blanchardstown area and the Naval Road. It is because the Government fails to adequately consider the essential features necessary when building tens of thousands of new homes over a short period in what were once relatively small towns, and the absence of adequate public transport.

We all know that inevitably many people will always have to use their cars because of their job commitments. However, many people living in Navan, Trim, Dunshaughlin and Clonee would welcome fast and first class public transport to get them from their homes in Meath to work in different parts of Dublin. If the Government were to consider the public transport solution two things would happen. There would be the development of quality bus corridors from all the towns to which I referred, together with a significant additional number of buses serving each of the towns. Many people from Dublin recently relocated to Trim. Deputy English knows what the commute is like to get to the permanent car park that is the N3 at Blanchardstown and the daily permanent car park that is the M50 from the Blanchardstown roundabout to the Red Cow Inn, and everything that entails. What will the Minister do?

A lot more than the Deputy will do.

That is not true. Why not produce the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government?

The Deputy, without interruption.

The Minister will wantonly destroy an incredible part of our heritage which has existed for 6,000 years because he is not big enough to acknowledge that we have the money, technical resources and will to redesign what has been designed so far. The road engineers and the NRA got it wrong.

There will be no houses in the country and no planning permission for anything.

That is just guff. The Minister is good at that.

I am only trotting after the Deputy.

No. The Minister cannot listen.

When the Minister's party was busy allowing approximately 20,000 new homes to be built in the Clonee area, part of them on the Meath side and the bulk of them on the Dublin side — the Minister has probably never been there but I know it very well——

I have been there on many occasions.

Nothing was done about public transport or roads when Fianna Fáil's friends, the property developers, were engaged in massive rezoning. As a result people endure a daily journey of misery. What the Labour Party says to the people of Meath is that there is a better option.

Why did the Labour Party not do anything six years ago when it was in Government?

There is a limited time for the debate. I ask the Minister to allow the Deputy to speak without interruption.

This road will decimate one of Meath's most outstanding features at Dalgan Park and the 5,000 years old heritage at Tara.

It will not.

Dalgan Park contains the only museum relating to Irish missionaries. Part of the demesne at Dalgan Park will be destroyed by this badly designed road. In the film "Gone with the Wind" the house was called "Tara", and Scarlet O'Hara said "tomorrow is another day". Fianna Fáil has a chance to avail of another day and do something about this decision.

I thank everybody on all sides of the House who came in to contribute to this debate. In particular, I thank my colleague, Deputy Gilmore, for constructing this motion and giving Dáil Éireann the opportunity to discuss an issue whose importance is far beyond the building of any road.

I am very disappointed that the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey, unnecessarily injected a sour note of contention into the debate by attacking the motivation of the Labour Party in putting down this motion at a time when the Minister of State at the Department of Transport, Deputy Callely, had just returned from the other House where a similar motion, the authorship of which is not the Labour Party, is being debated tonight.

There is growing, widespread concern about the implications of what is under way. It is entirely unnecessary for Minister Dempsey to come to this House and explain the intolerable burden being imposed daily on commuters who come from Kells and through the intervening towns to work in this city. It is entirely unnecessary for the Minister to explain how industry is being choked as a result of the intolerable congestion and gridlock with which we are familiar. It is entirely unnecessary for him to explain the demographics of County Meath and how the population is rising, and the implications of that. We agree with all of that. Deputy Gilmore spelled that out last night. We agree that the situation is intolerable for commuters. However, we fundamentally dispute the proposition that all one has to do is go ahead with the present plans and the burden will be lifted from the shoulders of commuters and we will return to 1960s and 1970s comfort-style driving.

That will not happen because the essential point, which Deputy Gilmore made last night, is that if we have learned anything it is that this route will be litigated for years. While the lawyers are down in the Four Courts the burden imposed upon and endured daily by motorists will not matter a whit. That is why this argument and the intolerance displayed by Minister Dempsey and other Fianna Fáil speakers is so wrong-headed.

It is frustration rather. He lives there.

I accept there is frustration. I accept what Minister Dempsey set out in describing the nightmare of it all over the years. Since Albert plucked him from relative obscurity in 1991 he has had the opportunity to do something about it. I do not know why he is apportioning blame to this side of the House. Even before 1991 he was on Meath County Council. Deputy John Brady at least had the honesty to admit responsibility on the part of his Government and Meath County Council. He did not say Meath County Council was the author at the time of the proposal to put in the bypasses in the fashion recommended by Deputy Gilmore in this motion in order that we might get on with the issue while reviewing the route.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn intervened in the debate last night and traced our experience from Wood Quay, through Luggala, Mutton Island in Galway to Carrickmines. Have we learned anything from that experience? That is the issue that confronts us. In claiming that the Labour Party motion will be the cause of indefinitely postponing the road, Deputy Noel Dempsey entirely misunderstands the situation. If the Government goes ahead with its existing plan, it will indefinitely postpone any alleviation of the plight of motorists. If we are seriously interested in alleviating that burden on motorists, we will avoid that interminable litigation that inevitably beckons.

I do not agree with the conclusion of my colleague, Deputy Eamon Ryan, that because roads are not the solution to our transport problems — he is right about that — we should not build the road. Roads are part of the solution. The other part of the solution is public transport, and a commuter link from Navan is an essential part of alleviating burden on the shoulders of stressed motorists. I do not agree with Deputy Eamon Ryan that we should not build the road. We want to build the road, and build it as quickly as possible, consistent with not getting bogged down in litigation. Deputy Noel Dempsey's ill-tempered contribution is difficult to understand because neither do I agree with another speaker in the House who was opposed to a public private partnership. I do not believe that is right in all circumstances. It depends on the particular circumstances.

Fianna Fáil tried to turn this issue into an argument between motorists and those who are concerned with our heritage. That is entirely wrong. The suggestion that all motorists are philistines when it comes to heritage is entirely wrong. One has a sense of déjà-vu about this debate. I remember another debate with very similar resonance. It raises the question of the whereabouts of the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche. The motion was addressed to him. Deputy Michael D. Higgins has traced how heritage has become subordinated. Now we have a situation where the Minister who pestered us with the Glen Ding issue until a couple of months ago has suddenly gone underground. What have the Minister for Transport, Deputy Cullen, and the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey, in common, apart from being two small ambitious men? What they have in common is that they were the authors of e-voting. We came to this House and pleaded with them not to proceed with the ill-considered and inadequate provision for e-voting-——

The Deputy should not worry, it will be used.

——on which we wasted €52 million.

We did not waste €52 million.

Allow Deputy Rabbitte to continue.

These were the same two Ministers. As a result of this debate, and given that there is no involvement from the Department responsible for heritage, what will we have next week? I will tell the House.

The Deputy will eat his words.

Not one but two Fianna Fáil chairmen of committees of this House will decentralise to Navan next week. Deputy Ellis will bring the Joint Committee on Transport there.

To hear the real people.

Deputy Haughey will visit the town the following day — I hope there is not a clash of fixtures — to hear the local population.

The local people who want the road.

That is a significant contribution to increasing public information about the arguments at stake. It is extraordinary that the party of the Fianna would want to drive a motorway through our most precious national monument.

We are not.

That is what the Government is doing.

Allow Deputy Rabbitte to conclude. The Deputy's time has elapsed.

That is the tragedy of this debate.

I acknowledge that the Taoiseach and Fianna Fáil do not just want to control the Ministries but also 98% of chairmen of committees, who are usually sent out to pretend they are in opposition.

The Deputy should conclude as I am obliged to put the question.

A Cheann Comhairle, Deputy Rabbitte is not including you in that.

No, I do not include you, a Cheann Comhairle. You can relax.

The Deputy should conclude without anecdotes.

I hope they will allow the different sections of the community in Meath to be heard at these committees and that it will be an important occasion in adding to public information, debate and consultation on a vitally important issue for us all.

We all agree it is important.

Amendment put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 66; Níl, 58.

  • Ahern, Dermot.
  • Ahern, Noel.
  • Andrews, Barry.
  • Ardagh, Seán.
  • Blaney, Niall.
  • Brady, Johnny.
  • Brennan, Seamus.
  • Browne, John.
  • Callely, Ivor.
  • Carey, Pat.
  • Cassidy, Donie.
  • Collins, Michael.
  • Coughlan, Mary.
  • Cowen, Brian.
  • Cregan, John.
  • Cullen, Martin.
  • Curran, John.
  • Davern, Noel.
  • de Valera, Síle.
  • Dempsey, Noel.
  • Dempsey, Tony.
  • Dennehy, John.
  • Devins, Jimmy.
  • Ellis, John.
  • Fahey, Frank.
  • Finneran, Michael.
  • Gallagher, Pat The Cope.
  • Glennon, Jim.
  • Grealish, Noel.
  • Haughey, Seán.
  • Hoctor, Máire.
  • Jacob, Joe.
  • Keaveney, Cecilia.
  • Kelleher, Billy.
  • Kelly, Peter.
  • Killeen, Tony.
  • Kirk, Seamus.
  • Kitt, Tom.
  • Lenihan, Brian.
  • Lenihan, Conor.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • McGuinness, John.
  • Moloney, John.
  • Moynihan, Donal.
  • Moynihan, Michael.
  • Mulcahy, Michael.
  • Nolan, M. J.
  • Ó Cuív, Éamon.
  • Ó Fearghail, Seán.
  • O’Connor, Charlie.
  • O’Dea, Willie.
  • O’Donnell, Liz.
  • O’Donovan, Denis.
  • O’Flynn, Noel.
  • O’Keeffe, Batt.
  • O’Keeffe, Ned.
  • O’Malley, Fiona.
  • Power, Peter.
  • Power, Seán.
  • Roche, Dick.
  • Sexton, Mae.
  • Smith, Michael.
  • Wallace, Dan.
  • Wallace, Mary.
  • Wilkinson, Ollie.
  • Wright, G. V.

Níl

  • Boyle, Dan.
  • Breen, James.
  • Breen, Pat.
  • Broughan, Thomas P.
  • Bruton, Richard.
  • Burton, Joan.
  • Connaughton, Paul.
  • Costello, Joe.
  • Coveney, Simon.
  • Cowley, Jerry.
  • Cuffe, Ciarán.
  • Deasy, John.
  • Deenihan, Jimmy.
  • Durkan, Bernard J.
  • English, Damien.
  • Enright, Olwyn.
  • Ferris, Martin.
  • Gilmore, Eamon.
  • Gormley, John.
  • Gregory, Tony.
  • Healy, Seamus.
  • Higgins, Joe.
  • Higgins, Michael D.
  • Hogan, Phil.
  • Howlin, Brendan.
  • Lynch, Kathleen.
  • McCormack, Padraic.
  • McGinley, Dinny.
  • McGrath, Finian.
  • McGrath, Paul.
  • McManus, Liz.
  • Mitchell, Gay.
  • Mitchell, Olivia.
  • Morgan, Arthur.
  • Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.
  • Naughten, Denis.
  • Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
  • Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
  • O’Dowd, Fergus.
  • O’Keeffe, Jim.
  • O’Shea, Brian.
  • O’Sullivan, Jan.
  • Pattison, Seamus.
  • Penrose, Willie.
  • Perry, John.
  • Quinn, Ruairí.
  • Rabbitte, Pat.
  • Ring, Michael.
  • Ryan, Eamon.
  • Ryan, Seán.
  • Sargent, Trevor.
  • Sherlock, Joe.
  • Shortall, Róisín.
  • Stagg, Emmet.
  • Stanton, David.
  • Timmins, Billy.
  • Upton, Mary.
  • Wall, Jack.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Stagg and McCormack.
Amendment declared carried.

As amendment No. 1 has been carried, amendment No. 2 in the name of Deputy O'Dowd cannot be moved.

Question put: "That the motion, as amended, be agreed to."
The Dáil divided: Tá, 66; Níl, 58.

  • Ahern, Dermot.
  • Ahern, Noel.
  • Andrews, Barry.
  • Ardagh, Seán.
  • Blaney, Niall.
  • Brady, Johnny.
  • Brennan, Seamus.
  • Browne, John.
  • Callely, Ivor.
  • Carey, Pat.
  • Cassidy, Donie.
  • Collins, Michael.
  • Coughlan, Mary.
  • Cowen, Brian.
  • Cregan, John.
  • Cullen, Martin.
  • Curran, John.
  • Davern, Noel.
  • de Valera, Síle.
  • Dempsey, Noel.
  • Dempsey, Tony.
  • Dennehy, John.
  • Devins, Jimmy.
  • Ellis, John.
  • Fahey, Frank.
  • Finneran, Michael.
  • Gallagher, Pat The Cope.
  • Glennon, Jim.
  • Grealish, Noel.
  • Haughey, Seán.
  • Hoctor, Máire.
  • Jacob, Joe.
  • Keaveney, Cecilia.
  • Kelleher, Billy.
  • Kelly, Peter.
  • Killeen, Tony.
  • Kirk, Seamus.
  • Kitt, Tom.
  • Lenihan, Brian.
  • Lenihan, Conor.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • McGuinness, John.
  • Moloney, John.
  • Moynihan, Donal.
  • Moynihan, Michael.
  • Mulcahy, Michael.
  • Nolan, M. J.
  • Ó Cuív, Éamon.
  • Ó Fearghail, Seán.
  • O’Connor, Charlie.
  • O’Dea, Willie.
  • O’Donnell, Liz.
  • O’Donovan, Denis.
  • O’Flynn, Noel.
  • O’Keeffe, Batt.
  • O’Keeffe, Ned.
  • O’Malley, Fiona.
  • Power, Peter.
  • Power, Seán.
  • Roche, Dick.
  • Sexton, Mae.
  • Smith, Michael.
  • Wallace, Dan.
  • Wallace, Mary.
  • Wilkinson, Ollie.
  • Wright, G. V.

Níl

  • Boyle, Dan.
  • Breen, James.
  • Breen, Pat.
  • Broughan, Thomas P.
  • Bruton, Richard.
  • Burton, Joan.
  • Connaughton, Paul.
  • Costello, Joe.
  • Coveney, Simon.
  • Cowley, Jerry.
  • Cuffe, Ciarán.
  • Deasy, John.
  • Deenihan, Jimmy.
  • Durkan, Bernard J.
  • English, Damien.
  • Enright, Olwyn.
  • Ferris, Martin.
  • Gilmore, Eamon.
  • Gormley, John.
  • Gregory, Tony.
  • Healy, Seamus.
  • Higgins, Joe.
  • Higgins, Michael D.
  • Hogan, Phil.
  • Howlin, Brendan.
  • Lynch, Kathleen.
  • McCormack, Padraic.
  • McGinley, Dinny.
  • McGrath, Finian.
  • McGrath, Paul.
  • McManus, Liz.
  • Mitchell, Gay.
  • Mitchell, Olivia.
  • Morgan, Arthur.
  • Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.
  • Naughten, Denis.
  • Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
  • Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
  • O’Dowd, Fergus.
  • O’Keeffe, Jim.
  • O’Shea, Brian.
  • O’Sullivan, Jan.
  • Pattison, Seamus.
  • Penrose, Willie.
  • Perry, John.
  • Quinn, Ruairí.
  • Rabbitte, Pat.
  • Ring, Michael.
  • Ryan, Eamon.
  • Ryan, Seán.
  • Sargent, Trevor.
  • Sherlock, Joe.
  • Shortall, Róisín.
  • Stagg, Emmet.
  • Stanton, David.
  • Timmins, Billy.
  • Upton, Mary.
  • Wall, Jack.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Stagg and McCormack.
Question declared carried.
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