Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 7 Dec 2004

Vol. 594 No. 3

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 10, motion re leave to introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 6 and 26]; No. 11, motion re referral of Supplementary Estimates [Votes 6 and 26] to select committee; No. 12, Excess Votes relating to 2003 [Votes 16 and 17]; No. 13, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of draft decision of the Council providing for certain areas covered by Title IV of Part Three of the Treaty establishing the European Community to be governed by the procedure referred to in Article 251 of that treaty, back from committee; and No. 20, Road Traffic Bill 2004 — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted not later than 10.30 p.m.; (2) No. 10, and subject to the agreement of No. 10, No. 11, referral to select committee, and Nos. 12 and 13 shall be decided without debate, and in the case of No. 12 excess Votes relating to 2003 [Votes 16 and 17] shall be moved together and decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and any divisions demanded on Nos. 10, 11 and 12 shall be taken forthwith; and (3) Report and Final Stages of No. 20 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 10.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Transport. Private Members' business shall be No. 44, motion re overseas development aid.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are three proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with the late sitting agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 10, 11, 12 and 13 without debate, namely, motions re Supplementary Estimates and excess Votes and motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of draft decision of the Council agreed to?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

It is not agreed. In respect of No. 13, this motion is to facilitate the removal of the requirement for unanimity in the areas of immigration and asylum policy and to replace that with the unequal process of qualified majority voting. This clearly would move us closer to the EU superstate model that is promoted by some voices in Europe and at home. This point was acknowledged in correspondence from the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to Sinn Féin only two years ago. It is also part of the Hague programme which the Government has refused to debate in the House at any time. Clearly, it fits into the fortress Europe agenda. This motion should be debated in the House. It is imperative that we properly discuss the ramifications of qualified majority voting in this area, which has already created such debate and interest and in respect of which concern has been voiced at home. The relinquishing of unanimity in the area of immigration and asylum policy is something that merits a full Dáil address. I object to this motion being proceeded with without further debate.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with Nos. 10, 11, 12 and 13 without debate be agreed."

Deputies

Vótáil.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Deputies claiming a division please rise?

Deputies Ó Caoláin, Ó Snodaigh, Crowe, Finian McGrath, Gregory, Joe Higgins and Healy rose.

An Ceann Comhairle

As fewer than ten Members have risen, I declare the question carried. In accordance with Standing Order 68, the names of the Deputies dissenting will be recorded in the Journal of the Proceedings of the Dáil.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 20, conclusion of Report and Final Stages of the Road Traffic Bill 2004, agreed?

Mr. Kenny

I do not wish to unduly hold up the business of the House or to push this to a vote. While a guillotine is proposed, I understand from Opposition speakers that the Bill may not go the full distance. I remind the Chief Whip that we do not like Government guillotines in principle but, given the occasion, I register my objection to it without pushing for a vote.

Mr. Roche

That is the spirit of Christmas.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

To be consistent, I must also record my objection to the application of a guillotine in this instance. I made an appeal in this regard and, to be fair to the Chief Whip, in the period since the commencement of this term, this was not the pattern until recent weeks. It should be noted that there were no votes on the Order of Business until recent weeks, which is surely the way we want business to proceed. The way to do this is to allow adequate time for all Members who wish to participate. I strongly recommend a revisitation of the Chief Whip's previous practice.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the Deputy pressing a vote?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I will not press a vote but record my objection to the guillotine.

Mr. Stagg

In case the House might think the Labour Party was in favour of guillotines, we made our case very strongly at the Whips' meeting. We understood the position put forward by the Chief Whip who endeavoured to reduce the number of guillotines where possible and who has been successful for a considerable period up to now. However, the pressures of Christmas are probably catching up with him.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 20 agreed? Agreed. I call Deputy Kenny on the Order of Business.

Mr. Kenny

Have the heads of the strategic national infrastructure Bill been approved by Government? Is there substance to the rumour that the Bill is being held up by a senior Minister?

The Taoiseach

The draft heads of the Bill are being considered before resubmission to Government. Therefore, it will be next year before the Bill is approved.

Mr. Rabbitte

Is the Taoiseach planning a constitutional referendum for next year? I refer in particular to reports at the weekend that the Government proposes to give a right of audience in this House to some elected members from Northern Ireland. Is there any basis to these reports?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach should reply on promised legislation.

The Taoiseach

The Seanad report and the All-Party Committee on the Constitution report propose that any change to the seats normally given to Members from Northern Ireland in recent years would require an extension of the Seanad. This issue has to be discussed by the political parties. However, if that were agreed by the parties, I understand it would require a constitutional amendment.

Ms Burton

That has nothing to do with a right of audience.

Mr. Sargent

The budget did not refer to the issue of alcohol abuse, as is normally the case with budgets. Given the increasing problem of alcohol abuse, will the Government step in, perhaps in the context of the Intoxicating Liquor Bill? Is priority being given to this issue on the basis of the reports——

An Ceann Comhairle

That question was asked by the Deputy last Thursday.

Mr. Sargent

That was in regard to other legislation while I am asking about separate legislation. While it is the same issue, there are many Bills.

The Taoiseach

The Intoxicating Liquor Bill will return to the House in 2005.

Ms McManus

An undertaking was made by the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children that she would try to introduce legislation before Christmas to bring in the yellow pack medical cards. I appreciate that time is running out. When will this legislation be introduced? In the meantime, will the Taoiseach delay the introduction of increased charges for those on low incomes who do not at present qualify but who will have to pay increased charges for drugs?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach should reply on the first question only as the second question does not arise on the Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

We hope to bring forward the relevant statutory instruments as soon as possible.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

With the publication today of the final report by IFSRA into the overcharging of customers in regard to foreign exchange transactions and the clear indication that there was foreknowledge by senior members of staff and management——

An Ceann Comhairle

Has the Deputy a question?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

——does the Government propose to consider the need for legislation in the area of the regulation of banks and financial institutions in regard to charging?

The Taoiseach

The legislation is already in place.

Mr. Gilmore

Some weeks ago, when I asked the Taoiseach about the report of the All-Party Committee on the Constitution relating to the price of building land, he undertook that he would intervene with the Whips to see whether we could have a debate in the House on the matter. In view of the reports today that a number of land speculators, none of whom appears to be a house builder, have made a significant killing on the sale of a site in my constituency, when are we likely to have a debate in the House on the report of the all-party committee in regard to building land?

The Taoiseach

The Chief Whip will include that in the next session. We want to deal with the matter in conjunction with the other reports, of which there are three. The last report, the National Economic and Social Council report, is to be published shortly.

Mr. Gilmore

That is not acceptable. The all-party committee report has been published——

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have a debate on it. We must move on.

Mr. Gilmore

——one of the other two reports has been buried by the Government and the third report has not been published yet.

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise at this stage. The Deputy should submit a question to the Minister.

The Taoiseach

The debate will be in the next session in any case.