Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 28 Apr 2005

Vol. 601 No. 4

Adjournment Debate

State Pathologist.

Mr. Costello

It is extraordinary that the State Pathologist, Dr. Marie Cassidy's entitlement to a Garda-driven car has been withdrawn due to cutbacks in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. The State Pathologist is the most important person involved in the investigation of crimes of homicide. She is the forensic scientist who must examine the body and the scene of the crime before it is disturbed by the elements or other interference. It is essential that she can reach the scene in the shortest possible time to conduct a thorough examination.

A successful criminal prosecution often depends on the State Pathologist's report. It is unconscionable that the Government would compel her to drive hundreds of miles to the four corners of the country, night or day to conduct a detailed, complex examination of the crime scene which must stand up in court, and then drive home again. She might need to drive a considerable distance again the following day.

There are 73 gardaí attached to the ministerial driving pool at a cost of €5 million. Although that number of gardaí is available to Ministers, some judges, the Government Chief Whip, the Ceann Comhairle, the Attorney General, the Director of Public Prosecutions, the Chief Justice and former Taoisigh and Presidents, the Government cannot find the funds to provide one extra driver for the State Pathologist.

The investigation of the murder of Sophie Toscan du Plantier was severely damaged and probably completely stymied because of a 24-hour delay in examining the crime scene. This Government always gets its priorities wrong but to implement this planned cutback from tomorrow, Friday 29 April, would be disastrous. It would be disastrous in the investigation of a murder, the most serious crime. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform must reverse this decision and ensure the necessary funding is made available to provide the State Pathologist with the necessary transport to carry out her duties efficiently.

Our society has changed dramatically in recent years. It is almost impossible to travel even a short distance because of the number of cars and other vehicles on the roads. To expect that the State Pathologist could conduct her business properly without access to a Garda driver is unimaginable. It is gross negligence on the part of the Government if it does not ensure that the funds are made available to enable her to perform her duties properly.

Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. B. Lenihan)

I am replying on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell. I thank Deputy Costello for raising the matter and for giving the Minister the opportunity to clarify the position on this issue.

The Minister is fully aware of the demanding and complex work carried out by the State pathologists and pays a special tribute to their professionalism and dedication. Much of our attention is drawn to high profile murder cases but pathologists are also involved on a daily basis in sensitive situations which are of great significance for next of kin but which rarely come into focus. They also fulfil an advisory and educational role which is of considerable value to key parties in the criminal justice and medical areas.

The Minister is well aware that the role of forensic pathology in criminal investigations has become more significant but also more onerous over time as the medical, procedural and legal issues arising have developed. It is precisely against this background that the position of deputy State pathologist was established and, as the Deputy is aware, the current State pathologist was the first holder of that post.

The Deputy may not, however, be aware that it had never been the practice to provide Garda transport to the State pathologist on a full-time basis. As a wholly exceptional measure during the recent period when the State pathologist did not have a deputy to assist her, Garda transport was made available in recognition of the additional demands placed on her as a result of the deputy vacancy.

Other arrangements were also put in place to assist her at that time, in particular the provision of relief cover whereby two pathologists were retained on a fee per case basis. These pathologists, who were based in the south and midlands of the country, were able to reduce the burden on the main office-holder, especially in cases outside the Dublin area. The Minister understands that this facility is still available today should it be of assistance in managing the overall caseload or in minimising the impact of travelling. The Minister is pleased to say that a new deputy pathologist was appointed last November and, as such, the workload and travel can once again be shared.

It is against this background, the Minister understands, that the Garda authorities reviewed the need to provide an on-demand Garda transport facility. This appears to him not to be a question of cutbacks, as has been widely reported, but rather a return to the long-standing position in recognition of the fact that the circumstances which gave rise to the need for special transport arrangements no longer apply. The House will be aware that the Garda is better resourced in terms of financial and personnel resources than ever before. In so far as the separate financial provision for the State pathology service is concerned, this has been increased by 5% in 2005 over 2004.

The Minister further understands that the Garda authorities have indicated a willingness to assist the pathologists in cases of special need and have no reason to believe that this will not meet future requirements. The Garda authorities are well placed to assess when a potential investigation would justify making such special arrangements. The Minister intends to keep this matter, as well as all aspects of the State pathology service, under ongoing review.

Mr. Costello

That is not very helpful.

School Staffing.

Mr. Crowe

I welcome the fact my colleague, Deputy O'Connor, has tabled a similar motion. We both live in the area — I in Raheen and he in Springfield. We are concerned that a school in which many in the area take great pride is under severe pressure and we seek to draw attention to its problems. The matter was raised last night during the debate on class sizes and it mirrors many of the problems facing other schools. The school is located in an area that has changed utterly since the time Deputy O'Connor and I moved in. Many of the houses are rented accommodation so that there is a different type of population and many of the children are international.

At St. Mark's junior school, out of projected enrolment figures of 500 to 530 this year, the international pupil population will be between 170 and 200. At St. Mark's senior school, out of projected enrolment figures of 390 to 420, the international pupil population will be between 120 and 140. That school is unique. I do not know of any other school in a similar situation. The difficulty is that many of the children do not have English as their first language and that creates problems in the classroom. Many classes have more than 30 pupils.

We said last night that for historical reasons the ratio for Traveller children is 14:1, the reason being to encourage them into the education system. Depending on their background, many of the international children have no history of going to school. Many of the fourth class pupils in the senior school have never been to school. Given the large class sizes, that issue adds to the difficulty. The school is located beside a RAPID area. If one looks at the socio-economic make-up of the children and their family backgrounds, it is clear the children come a disadvantaged background, yet the school is not deemed disadvantaged. I am aware the Minister is looking at this issue. What the parents want is action from the Minister.

Is the Department of Education and Science aware of the difficulties being experienced by the principals of the two schools and, if so, what action is being taken? Given that many of the parents of the international children are reliant on social welfare, that creates difficulties. There is no home-school-community liaison officer. Therefore, the school is trying to deal with the avalanche of emotional and psychological challenges that accompany many of these children who come from war zones and so on. There is no interpreter in the school. Clearly the money is not available to both schools to employ an interpreter. The school is failing not only the teachers but the children and their parents and those who live in the area. They are proud of their school and yet they have been left in this situation through no fault of their own.

Mr. O’Connor

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for his kindness in allowing me to raise this issue. I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Education and Science, Deputy Brian Lenihan. This Minister of State has shown a great interest in Tallaght and I hope he will understand the issue my colleague, Deputy Crowe, and I — neighbours in Springfield — raise is of great concern. Each time I speak here I mention my constituency and Tallaght. I am not afraid to say I live in the Springfield-Raheen area.

The issue I raise is a problem for my community but we want to deal with it positively. The presence of so many international children has a positive effect while at same time it puts much pressure on the resources of St. Mark's junior and senior schools. We are pleading that the schools be considered as special cases and provided with the required resources. I said last night that these schools were opened in 1973. I was present on that Saturday when the then Minister for Education, Mr. Richard Burke, opened it. It was also the day President Childers died. The schools have had a great history and have done a tremendous job. My sons were educated there. It has always provided a great service and it is still a great school. The local Deputies attended a meeting with the Irish National Teachers' Organisation representatives recently, which was held in Springfield school. The school has always held a place in the hearts of the people of Tallaght.

It is significant that both Deputy Crowe and I are raising an issue in a positive manner about a problem causing difficulty in our area. Deputy Crowe and I in our contributions have highlighted that St. Mark's junior and senior schools have pupils from 32 countries, from Angola, Albania, Bulgaria, Bangladesh, Bosnia, China, Cameroon, Congo, the Czech Republic, Egypt, Ethiopia, England, India, Ireland — thank God, Ivory Coast, Jordan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, the Philippines, Russia, Romania, Somalia, South Africa, Ukraine, Yugoslavia, Vietnam.

I have listed the countries because it is important to put the situation into perspective. The Acting Chairman has often spoken eloquently in this Chamber about the pressures on teachers and schools, which have been present since the time of my generation and are still present today. I ask the House to imagine 700 children in a school in an area that, as Deputy Crowe stated, is quite close to significant pockets of disadvantage and where the teachers, other staff and the pupils are under pressure.

I ask the Minister of State to make the case for us in the Department that special attention needs to be paid to this school. St. Mark's junior and senior schools are quite unique. This is the message from Springfield. It was great to see the Minister of State in our parish recently. I invite him as the Minister of State with responsibility for children to come to Springfield in the near future. We will be happy to greet him. It would be good for him as Minister of State with special responsibility for children to see the positive work being done in these schools in Springfield and to help us solve the problems on behalf of the teachers.

I pay a warm tribute to the principals of those schools who with their staff are doing a tremendous job in coping with the difficulties we have outlined. It is a tremendous school and facility for the local area but they have problems and particular challenges relating to the presence of so many international children. I hope the Department will examine the situation. I ask the Minister of State to use his influence to ask the Minister for Education and Science to send inspectors to the schools. The Department's inspectors have never visited Springfield to examine this problem relating to international children.

Mr. B. Lenihan

On behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Education and Science, I thank both Deputies for raising this matter as it affords me the opportunity to outline to the House the staffing position of the schools to which they refer.

In accordance with the staffing schedule, the staffing for St. Mark's junior school for the school year 2004-05 is a principal and 16 mainstream class teachers based on an enrolment of 469 pupils at 30 September 2003. The school also has an additional mainstream class post due to its developing status, two resource posts, one learning support post, two special class posts, one resource teacher for Travellers and three temporary language support posts.

The staffing for St. Mark's senior school for the school year 2004-05 is a principal and 13 mainstream class teachers based on an enrolment of 380 pupils at 30 September 2003. In addition the school has three resource posts, two learning support posts, one permanent special class post, one temporary special class post and two temporary language support posts.

Significant steps have been taken in recent years to improve the pupil-teacher ratio in our primary schools. The pupil teacher ratio, which includes all the teachers in the school including resource teachers, has fallen from 22.2:1 in the 1996-97 school year to 17.44:1 in the school year 2003-04. The pupil-teacher ratio in the current school year for the schools to which the Deputies referred is 17.37:1 and 16.52:1 respectively.

The Department has been active for several years in promoting interculturalism in schools. A range of actions can be taken to support participation of minority groups and Travellers in education. I was very struck by the descriptions given by both Deputies and particularly Deputy O'Connor's description of the extensive range and breadth of nationalities participating in this school. As a Deputy for the western Dublin area I have noticed the remarkable range and level of participation by international students in these schools. Many of the teachers have informed me of the excellent progress they are making with these children and how happy they are to work with them. It is important the House is aware of the great progress and strides being made with these children. I welcome the fact that both Deputies have raised the issue of this school in that context.

The measures the Department has adopted to date, include information for schools on the integration of asylum seekers and Travellers; additional resources for schools to support the needs of students for whom English is not the mother tongue; resource packs for schools prepared by organisations such as the National Consultative Committee on Anti-Racism and Interculturalism; a video for second level schools highlighting excerpts from the "Mono" TV programme; materials and training for teachers through funding the work of Integrate Ireland Language Training and other bodies; development in progress by the NCCA of guidelines for primary and post-primary teachers on how the existing curriculum can be mediated and adapted to reflect the emergence of an expanding multi-ethnic society; primary level guidelines will be published in May and the post-primary guidelines are expected to be ready by the end of the year; supports provided by the reception and integration agency to assist in the integration of refugees and asylum seekers into schools; expanding provision for language and literacy tuition for adults for whom English is not the mother tongue through the VEC literacy services.

The new curricula at primary and post-primary levels provide ample opportunity to extend students' awareness of the wider world and to learn about the lives and histories of people in other countries and of their contributions to art and science. In particular, the social, personal and health education programmes at primary and post-primary levels are designed to prepare students for participatory citizenship and to develop the skills of critical appraisal and decision making based on human rights and social responsibilities. They also promote a respect for human dignity, tolerance for the values and beliefs of others and a celebration of diversity.

Schools catering for non-national pupils who have significant English language deficits are entitled to assistance to enable these pupils gain full access to the curriculum. Schools with 14 to 27 non-English speaking non-national pupils enrolled are entitled to a full-time temporary language support teaching post at primary level and a whole-time equivalent teaching post at post-primary level. Schools with 28 or more such pupils are entitled to two full-time temporary-whole-time equivalent language support posts. Where there are between three and 13 non-national pupils enrolled in a primary school, the board of management may apply to the primary administration section of the Department for a grant to enable the school to take measures to improve the standard of English of the pupils concerned. Schools with between three and eight such pupils receive grant assistance in the amount of €6,348.69 while schools with between nine and 13 pupils receive grant assistance in the amount of €9,523.04. The total amount expended on such grants in the 2003-04 school year exceeded €2.3 million.

At post-primary level, where there are fewer than 14 pupils, additional teaching hours are allocated ranging from three hours per week for one pupil to 19.5 hours per week for 13 pupils. The support for an individual pupil is provided for a period of up to two years.

The Department provides a start-up grant of €635 when a language support teacher is allocated to a school. Each school for which the language support teacher continues to be sanctioned is issued a follow-up grant of €318 annually. The purpose of the grant is to facilitate the purchase of appropriate educational material and resources for use by the teacher.

In addition, the Department funds Integrate Ireland Language and Training, IILT, formerly known as the refugee language support unit, a Trinity College company, to provide training for English language support teachers and their principals. An English language programme and English language training materials are available to all teachers who attend their in-service courses. A portfolio known as the European language portfolio, has been developed by the IILT to provide a focus for pupils' learning, which concentrates on English language in the context of the school curriculum and on socialisation within the school. One of the fundamental aims of the training is to equip teachers to enable non-English speaking pupils to participate fully in school life. The Department will continue to keep under regular review these initiatives to promote inter-culturalism in our schools. I thank the Deputies for raising this matter.

School Accommodation.

Mr. Deenihan

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for the opportunity to raise this matter on the Adjournment. Scoil Eoin in Balluanach, Tralee, was established in 1890 and extended in 1929 and 1960. It is a Mercy convent school with a Mercy ethos. Its present enrolment is 620 pupils and the staffing complement on 30 September 2004 included 31 teachers, eight special needs assistants, a caretaker and a secretary. By September 2005, however, the school will lose two teachers as a consequence of being two pupils short for the staffing schedule last September. The school will also be affected if the new weighted system is introduced.

Scoil Eoin has 22 mainstream classes and two classes for autistic pupils and it has a variety of classroom accommodation. The oldest section facing the main road has six rooms with very limited space. The main building dating from 1960 has six classrooms which are small by modern standards and unsuitable to meet the educational needs of young children. There are 12 prefabricated classrooms at the back of the school and other ancillary rooms including offices and a school hall. The school accommodation has been well maintained over the years. It is a credit to all those responsible for its upkeep, including the principal, teachers and caretaker, that the impression one gets on visiting the school is that the buildings are in great condition.

However, the reality is different and there is a need for major improvement in the school accommodation. The adjacent post-primary school was moved to new premises in Mounthawk, Caherslee, Tralee, some years ago. This movement will facilitate the redevelopment of this important educational centre to provide modern classroom facilities, a better entrance, improved parking arrangements and a general refurbishment of the existing accommodation.

The prefabricated classrooms accommodate 304 pupils, while 134 students are based in the 1960 building and 182 in the 1890 building. The only modification to the oldest part of the school, which must be one of the oldest school buildings in the country, is that central heating was installed some time ago. A request was made by the board of management of the Department of Education of Science for a total rebuild in 2001. At the request of the Department, a feasibility report was presented by the board in late 2002. There has been no response to this report.

Will the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Lenihan, inform the Minister that the ideal solution is to refurbish the existing building as set out in the feasibility study and to build on the site on which the prefabs are based? A suggested move to a greenfield site would not suit the pupils and their families as it would involve a move some way out of town. Moreover, there would be significant expense involved in purchasing a site. The school is already based on a valuable two-acre site and the cost of a new site of the magnitude required would probably equal the cost of refurbishment.

The Minister, Deputy Hanafin, will visit Tralee tomorrow. Will the Minister of State ask her to visit Scoil Eoin on her way to visit the modern post-primary school at Mounthawk? She should see for herself the unacceptable situation whereby children are being taught in prefabs.

Mr. B. Lenihan

Deputy Deenihan is indefatigable. I make this reply on behalf of the Minister who will undoubtedly be made aware of the problems of the school in the course of her visitation to Tralee tomorrow. I thank the Deputy for raising the matter as it affords me the opportunity to outline to the House the strategy of the Department of Education and Science for capital investment in education projects. I will also outline the position regarding Scoil Eoin in Tralee.

Modernising facilities in our 3,200 primary and 750 post-primary schools is not an easy task given the legacy of decades of underinvestment in this area as well as the need to respond to emerging needs in areas of rapid population growth. Nevertheless, since taking office, the Government has shown a sincere determination to improve the condition of school buildings and to ensure the appropriate facilities are in place to enable the implementation of a broad and balanced curriculum.

We have progressively increased funding for the school modernisation programme in recent years to achieve our goal with an aggregate total of almost €2 billion allocated for this purpose since 1998, the largest investment programme in the history of the State. Since the beginning of the year, the Department of Education and Science has made a number of announcements relating to the schools building and modernisation programme. This year alone, €270 million will be allocated to primary schools and €223 million to post-primary schools for building works. This represents an increase of 14% on the 2004 allocation.

The programmes supported will include 141 major building projects already on site and a further 28 due to commence in the coming weeks and 122 major schools building projects which will prepare tenders and move to construction during 2005. Some 192 primary schools have been invited to take part in the small and rural schools initiative and the devolved scheme for providing additional accommodation. Up to 120 schools have been given approval to rent temporary premises pending delivery of a permanent solution to their long-term accommodation needs and 590 schools were recently given approval to complete essential small-scale projects under the summer works scheme. In addition, 43 schools have been authorised to start architectural planning of their major projects. Some 124 schools have been approved to progress through the architectural planning process with immediate effect, ranging from new schools building projects to extensions and refurbishment projects, allowing for the continuous roll-out of projects under the schools building and modernisation programme.

The new schools building and modernisation programme for 2005 to 2009 will be underpinned not only by a significant increase in overall funding but also by major improvements in the administration of the funding. Devolving more funding to local level through the summer works scheme and the small and rural schools initiative will allow schools to move ahead much more quickly with smaller projects while also delivering better value for money.

The particular position in regard to Scoil Eoin, Tralee is as follows. The school authority made an application to my Department in 2000 to relocate to the adjacent secondary school campus which became vacant with the opening of the new secondary school at Mounthawk on 1 September 2001. The application was assessed in the school planning section of my Department and it was agreed that the long-term accommodation needs for Scoil Eoin would be to provide accommodation for a staffing of a principal plus 22 mainstream teachers and ancillary staff.

A feasibility study has been received which outlines a number of options for the future development of Scoil Eoin. Detailed examination of this feasibility study regarding the options for the provision of the required level of accommodation is under way to determine the best way forward. As soon as a decision is taken on the best solution to meet the school's current and future accommodation needs, the project will be progressed in the context of the schools building and modernisation programme for 2005 to 2009.

I thank the Deputy for the opportunity to outline the position in regard to this particular school project and to highlight the significant work being undertaken by my Department in implementing the schools building and modernisation programme to ensure that infrastructure of the highest standard is available for all our schoolgoing population.

The Dáil adjourned at 5.20 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 4 May 2005.