I remind the House that supplementary questions and answers are subject to a maximum of one minute each.
Other Questions.
State Airports.
Jack Wall
Question:6 Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Transport if, in view of concerns expressed regarding the future of the Great Southern Hotels group, he has had any discussions with the Dublin Airport Authority given the role of these hotels as flagships of the tourism and hotel industry; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15009/05]
Richard Bruton
Question:17 Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Transport if he has received the three business plans from each of the three State airports; if he will publish these plans; if and when he envisages the break-up of Aer Rianta being sanctioned; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15488/05]
Martin Ferris
Question:57 Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Transport if the promised business plans for Shannon and Cork airports have been furnished to his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15586/05]
Richard Bruton
Question:65 Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Transport if he has taken a decision on the distribution of Aer Rianta’s assets between the three State airports; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15489/05]
Phil Hogan
Question:72 Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for Transport his views on the removal of the Great Southern hotels from the control of the Dublin Airport Authority; his further views on the sale of the Great Southern hotels to the private sector; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15490/05]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 6, 17, 57, 65 and 72 together.
In keeping with the provisions of the State Airports Act 2004, the board of the Dublin Airport Authority has a statutory mandate to do everything necessary to give effect to the restructuring of the State airports. The Shannon and Cork airport authorities were incorporated in October 2004 and in line with the framework provided by the State Airports Act 2004, these two new authorities will in due course own and operate their respective airports once sufficient distributable reserves are available to transfer the relevant assets.
Prior to the assets of Shannon and Cork airports being vested in their respective authorities, their boards are charged with preparing to assume full responsibility for the management and development of their airports. They are also empowered to undertake functions delegated to them on an agreed basis by the Dublin Airport Authority. Each of the airport authorities is also required to prepare comprehensive business plans for their airports. As part of this process, the Dublin Airport Authority will consider the future direction of its business, including the position of its subsidiaries.
In accordance with the 2004 Act, the transfer of assets to Shannon and Cork airport authorities cannot take place earlier than 30 April 2005 and, thereafter, a phased approach will allow one of the new airport authorities to be vested first, that is, Shannon Airport, while Cork Airport will be vested once sufficient distributable reserves have been built up within the Dublin Airport Authority.
The Minister for Finance and I must be satisfied as to the state of operational and financial readiness of the Shannon and Cork airport authorities before the assets of the airports are vested in those authorities. The formulation of comprehensive business plans by the new boards will be a key aspect of achieving operational and financial readiness. The three airport authorities are preparing comprehensive business plans with the Dublin Airport Authority co-ordinating the process. Finalised business plans have not yet been submitted.
As part of its business plan, the Dublin Airport Authority will be putting forward its proposals for the future of the Great Southern Hotels group. I have had discussions with the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism about the Great Southern Hotels group and I am aware of their importance to Irish tourism. I will consider the DAA's proposals in consultation with the Minister for Finance in the overall context of the business plans as provided for under the State Airports Act 2004.
Does the Minister accept that the break-up of Aer Rianta is not quite as simple as his predecessor suggested and we are a long way from disentangling that company? I am sure he is grateful to him for the legacy he has left him.
On the Great Southern hotels chain, does the Minister accept that clarity is needed for the staff of the hotels, given the role they have played in the tourism industry and that it has been a flagship company which has made a significant contribution to raising standards and providing very high quality training opportunities for staff in the industry? Does he agree that the staff need some clarity in respect of their future? Last month the chairman of the airport authority indicated clearly that it was his intention to dispose of the hotels, yet the Minister is giving staff reassurances that this will not happen and, as long as the Government is in power, the chain will remain in public ownership. These are two diametrically opposed positions.
Has the Deputy a question?
Will the Minister clarify for the staff of the Great Southern Hotels group what exactly lies ahead of them in terms of their job security and job prospects for the future?
I fully understand the importance of the Great Southern Hotels group, about which I have spoken to the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism. While I do not wish to pre-empt the business plans, I have met the people in Cork, Shannon and Dublin and there is great enthusiasm for what is happening. The opportunities that independence will bring to Shannon and Cork have been well greeted and they are up for the challenges.
The redistribution of the assets is a complex process. All the issues that filter into that must be dealt with. People have different perspectives on different aspects. I am anxious that the Great Southern Hotels group has a major future.
There are many factors that can make that happen, including the management and staff in the hotels. One of the difficulties at present is that the hotel group is losing substantial amounts of money. This is not sustainable for anybody, including the staff. It is not good from its perspective. Clearly, the restructuring process must involve a consideration of how we can maximise the benefit of the Great Southern Hotels group and return it to profit.
There has been considerable investment in tourism and hotels in recent years and there is no reason, therefore, that Great Southern Hotels should not be very profitable and to the fore in the industry. I would like to see this happen.
Does the Minister consider it fair, either to the hotels or the fledgeling Dublin Airport Authority, to leave the hotels in the care of an organisation that admits it does not have the interest, finance or ability necessary to run hotels? Running hotels is not what the authority does or what it is good at. Does it not have enough to do in running airports? Does it not behove the Minister to remove the hotels from the care of the authority for the sake of both the hotels and the airport?
It does not seem to be in anybody's interest to allow these circumstances to persist. The annual loss of €2.2 million represents a drain not just on the hotels but on the airport. It has considerable implications for the fledgeling airport authority.
One of the benefits of our current position is that we engage in serious business planning. It is difficult to answer the Deputy's question in that I have not got the business plan. However, Dublin Airport Authority has made is absolutely clear that, in the business planning process, all the issues concerning the subsidiaries of the authority, which formerly existed in the guise of Aer Rianta, must be dealt with. I am waiting to see what these issues are. The chairman has enunciated fairly some of the issues that must be grappled with.
Having considered the tourism market and the history of the Great Southern Hotels and the contribution they have made, I know of no reason the hotels could not and should not be very profitable. The hotel business is largely profitable. There are issues for management and staff in the Great Southern Hotels group to reconcile. If this reconciliation is achieved, it will help to return the hotels to profitability. The Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism and I have discussed this issue informally and I share his views.
I accept that the Minister must see the business plans. As of now, does he have an inkling as to whether the hotels should or could be kept in public ownership? He stated he had discussions with the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism. Had he any communications with the Taoiseach on this issue? In any such communications, has the Taoiseach expressed a view on whether the assets should be kept in State ownership?
The history of the Great Southern Hotels group is clear. I have no objection to maintaining Great Southern Hotels in State ownership, if it remains profitable. However, the hotels must be run efficiently and well in terms of the mix in the tourism market and the hotel business, which is very competitive. There is no reason the group should not remain in State ownership.
I am in the difficult position of having to proceed without the business plans. I do not want to pre-empt or speculate on what might be in them. It is fair to those who are putting them together that I wait until the Minister for Finance and I receive them. In light of the viability of all the entities the Minister for Finance and I must approve the entire process in which we are engaged and the completion of the business plans.
Has the Minister had any indication from the Taoiseach?
There has been much general discussion. The Government, including the Taoiseach, is anxious to see the business plans produced. The Taoiseach has been very clear that he believes the Great Southern Hotels group is an important element in the public sector and would like to see it remain in that sector.
Has the Taoiseach made that view known to the Minister?
He said that publicly on numerous occasions.
On airports generally, rather than hotels, comfort was offered to both Cork and Shannon airports in respect of the financial status of their respective authorities, as the Minister is aware. When the State Airports Bill was passed, everybody understood the authorities would be free of debt, if established. There is great concern in Cork that this position may have changed, as I am sure the Minister is aware. There are indications that the Minister is of a different view to the people in Cork. This may be because of overruns associated with the terminal or losses pertaining to some of the assets of the former Aer Rianta.
In fairness to Cork people generally, and to allow the authority to prepare its plan, it is important that those concerned know precisely what they are facing. Has the Minister changed his mind? Has the Government changed its mind regarding the setting up of Cork and Shannon airport authorities without debt? Is the corollary such that any outstanding debt would remain with Dublin Airport?
The transfer of assets to Shannon and Cork airport authorities could not have taken place earlier than April of this year. For the company to distribute its assets, it must have the cash reserves to match the distributive value of those assets. The early indications were that Shannon Airport would be dealt with first and that it might take some time to deal with Cork Airport. However, it is absolutely clear that Cork, Shannon and Dublin airports will have to be viable on foot of the business plans. There is no point in proceeding if they cannot be made viable.
If they are set up with debt, how can they be viable?
Allow the Minister to contribute without interruption. The Deputy cannot rise without being called by the Chair.
The whole point was that they would be set up without debt.
I know of no business that does not have some debt attaching to it. There were many interpretations of some of the comments made at an early phase. I had meetings with representatives of Cork, Shannon and Dublin airports and there is no question but that everybody wants the airports to become independent as quickly as possible. People want Cork and Shannon airports to operate on the most viable and commercially sound grounds. I will wait for the business plans before demonstrating how this is to be achieved.
I call on Deputy Shortall to make a brief final question.
My question was not answered.
I appreciate that but I have called Deputy Shortall. We are rapidly running out of time.
Is the Minister aware of the comments made by Gary McGann to the members of the Joint Committee on Transport to the effect that the three business plans were far from finalised and that there were major problems associated with agreeing them?
What of the former Minister's talk of Cork and Shannon airports starting off on a clean slate? Does the Minister, Deputy Cullen, accept that a political decision needs to be taken on the future of Aer Rianta International and the Great Southern Hotels group before the business plans can be finalised?
Deputies Shortall and Olivia Mitchell are making my point for me. I am being asked to answer quite legitimate questions, with which I have no issue, but I cannot do so in advance of seeing the business plans. The plans must contain the answers to the questions the Deputies have raised.
They are political decisions.
Let us produce the business plans first. We are often accused of trying to shoot in the dark without obtaining the facts. The Deputy should allow me to obtain the facts on the business plans. We will have to make decisions on foot of them.
They are based on the availability of facts.
How can that be done when the authorities do not know the future of the money-making facet of the business?
Deputy Shortall should allow the Minister to contribute without interruption.
What was Deputy Shortall's question?
How can any of the airport authorities decide on its future without knowing what will happen to the money-making facet of the business, Aer Rianta International? The Minister's predecessor gave very clear signals of his intentions in this regard. Does the Minister not have to make what is ultimately a political decision on what is to happen to Aer Rianta International?
Before the Minister replies, I will allow a brief question from Deputy Olivia Mitchell.
My question is similar to that of Deputy Shortall. The business plans are predicated on the availability of certain facts. Cork Airport Authority, for instance, began planning on the basis that it would start off without debt. Now it does not know. How can it prepare the business plans without that information? Deputy Shortall is right, political decisions must be made so that the business plans can be realistic.
There is no disagreement between the three of us on this matter. The discussions between Cork, Shannon and Dublin airports deal with those issues. They are making decisions based on the hard facts of what is profitable and what is not, and the best structure for the future. Some political decisions may need to be taken as an outcome of that business plan.
I have given these sound business people a strategic mandate to operate the three State airports successfully, commercially and profitably. They are discussing the issues in that mandate and will make the division on that sound basis.
Which airport will get Aer Rianta?
I would not like to mislead the House. Business planning is going on between the three airports under the direction of Dublin Airport Authority. The three airports are working out with the authority how these business plans stack up. One cannot make a business plan unless one possesses all the facts. They have the commercial facts. I am waiting for the business plans to come back, which may require us to make some political decisions.
Dan Boyle
Question:7 Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Transport the number of passenger diversions from Cork Airport to other airports to date in 2005. [15657/05]
The movement of aircraft at Cork Airport is an operational matter for the airport authorities and the airlines concerned, subject to compliance with aviation safety requirements. However, I am informed by the Dublin Airport Authority that for the first four months of this year, 1.8% of planned arrivals at Cork Airport were diverted or cancelled, compared to an average annual diversion rate of approximately 1%. The main reason for this excess above the norm was a particularly bad spell of bad weather during March when the diversion rate reached 3.8%. Overall, I am informed that the rate of diversions at Cork Airport is in line with international statistics. Ultimately, a decision to land or divert an aircraft is a matter for the pilot, having regard to all safety requirements.
It is interesting in our new divided world to hear a response to a question regarding Cork Airport coming from Dublin Airport. It seems the business plans must come from Dublin Airport before we can hear them. Does the Minister agree that for lack of a small investment, in the order of €15 million, Cork Airport could have a navigational system which would allow planes to land even during fogbound periods? The lack of that investment hampers Cork Airport in its competition with Shannon or Dublin airports, if the three airports truly compete. Who makes such a decision? Does Dublin Airport make the decision, given that the Minister said all three airports must get together to discuss their business plans? Is it left to Cork Airport alone? If Cork Airport has no cash, assets or certainty about the source of its money, how can it decide on a practical measure——
The Deputy has gone well outside the limits of his colleague's question, which was purely statistical. We have heard several questions about developments in Cork Airport.
I beg the Ceann Comhairle's leave to ask the Minister to reply to the questions I have asked.
I have been more than open with the Deputies this afternoon. I am disappointed that Deputy Ryan is trying to trivialise the matter.
I am not trivialising the matter.
This is a case of serious business planning to split one organisation into three. The three parts must be party to the discussions. That is reasonable and sound. I do not have the answer to the Deputy's technical question and am not going to guess it. In my response to the initial question I said that the diversion rate of 1% at Cork Airport is well in line with international norms.
Driving Tests.
Ruairí Quinn
Question:8 Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Transport the numbers of persons awaiting tests at the latest date for which figures are available and the average waiting time in regard to each driver testing centre; the steps he is taking to reduce waiting times; the number of driver testers in each year from 1997 to 2005; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15564/05]
Table 1 sets out the numbers waiting and the average waiting time at each driving test centre on 9 May 2005. Table 2 sets out the number of driver testers, including supervisory testers, employed by my Department between 1997 and 2005. My Department and the Department of Finance have agreed a package of measures which includes increased productivity, the recruitment of additional testers and the outsourcing of a block of tests. These measures have a potential to reduce the numbers awaiting a test by up to 80,000. Consultations with staff interests have commenced on the implementation of these measures.
|
Centre |
Average weeks waiting |
Numbers waiting |
|
North Leinster Region |
||
|
Finglas |
25 |
9,923 |
|
Dundalk |
27 |
3,211 |
|
Mullingar |
19 |
1,909 |
|
Navan |
39 |
4,549 |
|
Raheny |
30 |
7,877 |
|
South Leinster Region |
||
|
Churchtown/Rathgar |
37 |
11,509 |
|
Gorey |
37 |
2,291 |
|
Naas |
38 |
5,369 |
|
Tullamore |
41 |
2,061 |
|
Wicklow |
31 |
2,529 |
|
Tallaght |
35 |
8,989 |
|
West Region |
||
|
Athlone |
29 |
1,235 |
|
Birr |
26 |
1,183 |
|
Castlebar |
30 |
2,162 |
|
Clifden |
16 |
424 |
|
Ennis |
18 |
1,265 |
|
Galway |
26 |
3,051 |
|
Loughrea |
16 |
921 |
|
Roscommon |
18 |
862 |
|
Tuam |
16 |
1,051 |
|
North West Region |
||
|
Ballina |
19 |
1,089 |
|
Buncrana |
29 |
664 |
|
Carrick-on-Shannon |
27 |
994 |
|
Cavan |
26 |
1,641 |
|
Donegal |
29 |
1,176 |
|
Letterkenny |
34 |
2,236 |
|
Longford |
22 |
959 |
|
Monaghan |
25 |
1,279 |
|
Sligo |
16 |
1,596 |
|
South East Region |
||
|
Carlow |
38 |
2,387 |
|
Clonmel |
46 |
2,111 |
|
Dungarvan |
26 |
1,661 |
|
Kilkenny |
34 |
2,158 |
|
Nenagh |
47 |
892 |
|
Portlaoise |
22 |
1,588 |
|
Thurles |
47 |
1,186 |
|
Tipperary |
38 |
1,089 |
|
Waterford |
29 |
2,785 |
|
Wexford |
33 |
2,404 |
|
South West Region |
||
|
Cork |
26 |
6,939 |
|
Killarney |
34 |
2,101 |
|
Kilrush |
15 |
461 |
|
Limerick |
31 |
3,931 |
|
Mallow |
30 |
2,128 |
|
Newcastle West |
28 |
1,817 |
|
Shannon |
40 |
876 |
|
Skibbereen |
36 |
2,024 |
|
Tralee |
23 |
1,717 |
|
Year |
Driver Testers Employed |
|
1997 |
77 |
|
1998 |
73 |
|
1999 |
81 |
|
2000 |
109 |
|
2001 |
113 |
|
2002 |
130 |
|
2003 |
127 |
|
2004 |
130 |
|
2005 |
129 |
The Minister's announcement on Tuesday about reducing waiting lists for driving tests sounded well, but people should not get too excited because his predecessor, the Minister, Deputy Brennan, made a similar announcement in February 2003. Does the Minister accept that there are now longer waiting lists for the driving test and fewer testers? There is fewer than one tester for every 1,000 people on the waiting list.
The Minister announced a package on Tuesday promising to cut the waiting list to a month within the next 18 months. Where does he propose to find the driver testers? Are there qualified driver testers waiting to be employed? How does he propose to train recruits to bring them up to the standard that prevails? How does he propose to ensure that the standards are sufficiently high in the testing undertaken by private sector operators? How will he ensure even standards between public and private sector testers? Surely it would make more sense to set up the driving standards authority and recruit additional staff to that authority.
I am pleased the Department of Finance has supported the measures I proposed and I thank the Minister for Finance for that. The number of testers employed is substantially larger than it was. I do not know why the Deputy says there are fewer now. I can give her the figures if she wishes. There are 129 testers and several vacancies, which I intend to fill immediately.
We have appointed a new chief executive officer to lead the driving standards authority. Under his aegis the authority will put a block of tests out to tender in the market. He has assured me this is possible. We will incentivise our own driver testers on the number of tests carried out over a base figure of so many tests per day. Approximately 40,000 of the backlog of 80,000 tests will be carried out by our testers and the balance by outside testers. My wish is that the backlog will be cleared by the end of next year when the waiting time will be a matter of weeks.
Where will the Minister find the testers?
The new chief executive of the driving standards authority says they are available. Some training will be needed to ensure uniformity.
I should hope so. What are the Minister's proposals in that regard?
The training will ensure uniformity and consistency in the standard of driver testing across the country.
How does the Minister propose to do that training?
The authority will train the testers. That is why we are setting up the authority. I am told by all sides, including internally, that it will achieve this. It will be done if there is a will to do it.
They will be training themselves.
I am an optimist. I believe that one can get through problems if one sticks to the facts.
The Minister is naive.
If one sticks to the facts the truth will always stand by one.
The Minister is wrong.
One should never be afraid of the truth.
Airport Security.
Joe Costello
Question:9 Mr. Costello asked the Minister for Transport the steps being taken to deal with the delays caused to passengers at Dublin Airport arising from the introduction of enhanced security measures; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15551/05]
Joe Costello
Question:37 Mr. Costello asked the Minister for Transport the main findings of the security audit at Dublin Airport recently undertaken by the European Civil Aviation Conference; his views on the serious security lapses reportedly discovered; the steps which have been taken to deal with such lapses and remove any safety or security risk to passengers; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15550/05]
Dinny McGinley
Question:63 Mr. McGinley asked the Minister for Transport if he has received a report on security at Dublin Airport, as announced in the wake of recent security breaches at the airport; if this report will be published; the recommendations contained in the report; if he intends fully to implement such recommendations; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15503/05]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 9, 37 and 63 together.
On completion of the recent EU inspection of Dublin Airport, officials from my Department and the Dublin Airport Authority received an oral briefing on the findings of the inspection. I have received a report from my officials on the outcome of that debriefing. In accordance with established procedures and practice, my Department, the European Commission or the Dublin Airport Authority will not make any comment on the specific outcomes of the EU inspection. The European Commission will send a formal report to my Department in due course dealing with all relevant issues. This is a confidential security report and will not be published.
I am determined that any issues identified during the inspection will be remedied. Apart from the immediate remedial actions put in place during the inspection, I have instructed my officials to prepare an action plan in response to the Commission findings. This action plan has been prepared in consultation with the Dublin Airport Authority, airlines and other stakeholders. I expect all relevant authorities will fully engage and co-operate with my Department to ensure there is full and consistent application of the required security measures.
The House will understand that the nature of security precludes detailed discussion of measures. Therefore, I will not disclose the nature or extent of any security measures that have been implemented or the nature of any additional measures that are under consideration. However, I am satisfied that the DAA and airlines responded effectively and immediately to deficiencies identified during the inspection. In this regard, the DAA has appointed an international security firm to review security at Dublin Airport. I welcome the fact that it has done that. The National Civil Aviation Security Committee met last Thursday, 5 May 2005, and was briefed on the audit and the proposed action plan.
On the issue of delays, I have been advised that the DAA is monitoring passenger movement and controls to minimise inconvenience and delays and it is liaising closely with airlines. The authority has advised me that they will maximise the use of existing facilities and will endeavour to manage airport processes effectively to cope with the increasing passenger numbers passing through the terminal. The authority operates 14 X-ray screening points for passenger screening purposes, an increase of three new screening points since the EU inspection. Refurbishment works are under way to accommodate an additional two X-ray screening points and additional X-ray equipment has been ordered.
By June, 120 new staff will have been recruited for screening operations and 40 of these new staff have already been brought into live screening operation. The DAA has also implemented a queue management system for crowd control purposes. Airlines are co-operating by opening check-in desks earlier. I welcome this important measure. Passengers have also been encouraged to minimise the volume of hand baggage presented at the screening points, not to carry sharp objects and to co-operate with the instructions of screeners. The DAA has informed me that the queue times average 15 minutes at peak periods during weekdays and 25 minutes at the busiest holiday traffic period at the weekends. During off-peak periods passenger queue times average not more than five minutes.
I am committed to ensuring the highest standards of aviation security at our airports and I will ensure that the lessons learned from the EU inspection are taken on board. Specifically I will ensure that the security issues are addressed in co-operation with the relevant parties so that there is full confidence in the security arrangements and that those arrangements are managed in such a way as to minimise passenger inconvenience.
Is the Minister aware that about this time last year, reporters from a Sunday newspaper attempted to bring bomb-making equipment through Dublin and Shannon airports? They had no difficulty in doing so and wrote an article about it. Subsequently I asked a question of the Minister's predecessor. Will the current Minister tell the House about the system in his Department to monitor airport security? His predecessor said that he had full confidence in the airport security system and that it was being constantly reviewed by this committee, which is chaired by his Department. The committee assured everyone that there was tight security to the highest standards at Dublin Airport. How did Dublin Airport so spectacularly fail the standards required by this EU committee when last year the Minister's Department assured everyone that everything was under control and that it was perfectly happy with the security standards in Dublin Airport? What role, if any, has that committee played in the Department over the past year? Why was it not aware of what appear to be serious lapses in security, as revealed by the EU committee?
The security is to the highest standard. Some of the airlines said that the security facilities at Dublin Airport are among the best in the world. Clearly on this particular day there were lapses on the part of Dublin Airport and the airlines. As they were identified on the day, they were corrected and further enhancements have taken place.
Is the Minister suggesting that this happened by chance?
Deputy Shortall should allow the Minister to reply without interruption. The Chair has been very lenient with the Deputy who took more than the one minute allowed to make her contribution and without the Chair intervening. She should therefore allow the Minister to answer.
The National Civil Aviation Security Committee was constituted in 1974. From people in my Department I know this issue is taken extraordinarily seriously and regular checks take place. There were failures on that day but they were not catastrophic. There were specific issues tested that were not up to standard. I would not defend that and my views have been made well known. The security staff were disappointed in their performance and have looked to correct those issues. Security is an issue in all airports. The Dublin Airport Authority has been asked to manage the entire security operation to the best convenience of passengers. There is substantial recruitment of staff, 40 new people are already working there and extra X-ray areas and machines will facilitate greater efficiency.
I have great admiration for the way the authorities have responded to the lapse that was detected. I am sure many passengers do not feel the same when they are delayed. Additional channels and training have been put in place as quickly as possible. Is congestion and a lack of infrastructure not largely the cause of this lapse? The visible manifestations of this are queuing, under-provision and a lack of infrastructure in the provision of every service at the airport. That affects service providers as well as passengers. How can the Taoiseach be of the view that there is no congestion at Dublin Airport and that capacity poses no problem until 2009? He says he was told by the Dublin Airport Authority that this was the case. Is that in line with the Minister's beliefs?
My understanding is that when people use Dublin Airport as a stopover, they must come out and go through security again. That is not the practice in most airports. Does that add to queues? Is there potential in that for reducing queuing time for people coming through the airport?
There is no doubt about it. All those factors contribute to the issues at Dublin Airport. Deputy Mitchell, and Deputy Shortall earlier, enunciated what people reporting on these issues do not understand. There are two capacity problems emerging at Dublin Airport. We have not passed them by because clearly they exist. One is airside for airline capacity, and that compounds the internal dynamics of capacity within the airport. The other, which I would not have thought about it this way until someone pointed it out to me but it is interesting, is that the space in Dublin Airport from landside to airside is very narrow. There is a great deal of activity in a small area. I agree with the Taoiseach and the figures indicate that we need extra capacity. We need extra airside capacity by 2007. That is on the record.
It is needed this summer.
We need the terminal capacity by 2009 or 2010. Not only will that have an impact on a new terminal or the new pier D and contact stands that will be created, it will allow us to reconfigure the operation into a much more cohesive one. Deputy Mitchell raised an important point regarding transiting through Dublin Airport. It will have to be made easier for passengers to transit and this is linked to the creation of a hub. There would have to be good transit facilities for passenger if it were to work. That would be much more achievable in the sort of configurations that are now being explored.
I am glad to hear the delay has been reduced to 15 to 25 minutes. I was there on May Day weekend and it took me an hour to get through. Has the Minister visited the airport to examine the situation? One of the new security measures suggested is that people take their shoes off. Is there not a health and safety issue in regard to people taking their shoes off? Thousands of people go through the airport, some of whom have verruca and so on. Part of the problem has to do with hand luggage. Why is there not a separate line for those who do not have hand luggage? Is the Minister concerned at the delays? While reduced somewhat, there are still unacceptable delays. There appears to be utter confusion with people trying to board planes and tourists panic-stricken in case they miss their flights. It is an issue that needs to be addressed. My suggestions are sensible and perhaps the Minister will consider them.
The Deputy has picked up on an issue that colleagues have raised with me during the past week, that is, that there should be at least one access point in the security system for those with no hand luggage. We agree with the Deputy on that point. I do not regard a ten or 15 minute wait as excessive. All Members have had the experience of travelling through airports throughout the world. I have queued at many airports for 40 or 50 minutes. That is the way it is. Certainly heightened security post-11 September 2001 has impacted greatly on ease of access and travel. The matter of shoes is an issue, given the way in which items can be concealed in them and they have to be checked. In regard to health and safety issues, I would expect all those involved are aware of their obligation.
Will the Minister accept that it is not credible to suggest that by chance on the one day when the EU committee happened to be in Dublin airport there was a coincidental lapse in security? Does the Minister accept that the EU committee has shown up a system's failure at Dublin airport? Will he explain why the committee under the aegis of his Department which has explicit responsibility for monitoring security at the airports did not manage to uncover this system's failure and what action he will take in respect of that committee? Surely he will not leave those same people, who failed to detect this problem, in place on that committee? Has he moved to replace the committee?
The key people on the committee hold high public office whether in the Garda or elsewhere, and I am not in a position to remove them from office. They are the best people.
It is even more serious than that.
We should be more balanced with regard to the issue on the day. By and large the security system was excellent. A few issues were pointed out. From my reading of the issue, the more serious failures were with the airlines, not within the airport. I say that without fear or favour. There are specific areas in aeroplanes that must be checked every time. Objects were placed in those areas that had to be checked but they were not checked. That is extremely serious. The response from the airlines and the authority has been excellent. I understand from the security personnel involved that regular checks are carried out throughout the airport and to my knowledge nothing untoward has gone wrong. On the particular day in question there was not a huge number of lapses. There were a couple of areas where the system did not work and that was rightly pointed out. I welcome unannounced security checks at Dublin airport.
What has the committee been doing?
I have spoken to the officials in my Department who were taken aback because they had been carrying out regular checks and did not see these flaws. The flaws have been corrected in a way that will make it virtually impossible for those types of issues to occur again.
Taken aback is hardly an adequate response.
No, but put in context, by and large all the security issues worked extremely well.
(Interruptions).
Deputy Shortall, the Minister's questions have concluded.
Written answers follow Adjournment Debate.