Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 9 Mar 2006

Vol. 616 No. 3

Priority Questions.

Garda Reserve Force.

Jim O'Keeffe

Question:

1 Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if members of the Garda reserve force will be entitled to effect arrest under the Public Order Acts and other legislation that requires a Garda to form an opinion as to wrongdoing; the training that will be put in place for this purpose; the consultations he has had with the Garda representative bodies on this and other issues of concern to them; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9819/06]

Joe Costello

Question:

2 Mr. Costello asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the progress that has been made in recruiting a volunteer Garda reserve force; and if the Garda representative bodies have been consulted on the proposal. [9984/06]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell)

I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together.

Under section 15 of the Garda Síochána Act 2005, which provides for the establishment of a Garda reserve, the powers and duties of reserve members may be determined by the Garda Commissioner. The Garda Commissioner, in a comprehensive submission to me on the Garda reserve, has proposed that the powers of reserve members will be confined to the enforcement of certain aspects of the following Acts: under the Road Traffic Acts — demanding driving licences and insurance details, enforcing the wearing of seat belts etc; under the Public Order Act — dealing with the offences of intoxication, threatening behaviour, disorderly conduct and failure to comply with the direction of a member of the Garda Síochána; and under the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act — dealing with the offences of theft and burglary. Reserve members would also be given the power of arrest under the Criminal Law Act 1997, which provides powers of arrest for both members of the Garda Síochána and civilians.

The Commissioner's proposals make clear that reserve members will receive more than 120 hours initial training, which is up to the best international standard, including training on the exercise by reserve members of their powers, which are limited; they will be vetted to the same extent as full-time gardaí as regards security and character — there is no danger of infiltration by subversives or criminals of the reserve force or the force in general; they will have the same educational standards as recruits to the full-time force; they will only patrol in the presence and under the supervision of full-time members; they will only serve in uniform and will not drive official vehicles or carry firearms; they will be subject to a full disciplinary code; and they will not be deployed to carry out duties in their own immediate neighbourhoods.

I have said that I am extremely impressed with the comprehensive nature of the proposals for the Garda Síochána reserve made to me by the Garda Commissioner. The proposals envisage a thoroughly trained reserve with carefully selected powers and duties, working under the supervision of members of the Garda Síochána. I have asked each of the Garda representative associations to meet me to discuss the proposals before I proceed to draw up the necessary regulations for Government approval. I am glad to say the associations have agreed to this and the meetings are scheduled to take place over the next two weeks. I have also said that I will present the regulations in draft form to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights for consideration.

The Garda reserve will be a valuable additional support for the Garda Síochána. It will enhance the force's capacity to respond to emerging policing challenges and will reinforce its links with local communities. At the same time, the strength of the force is being massively increased from 12,000 to 14,000 members and the Garda budget is also at an all time high. This year's allocation of €1.29 billion represents an increase of 13% on the allocation for 2005. It includes provision of over €83.5 million for overtime, an increase of €23 million on last year's allocation, which will yield over 2.7 million hours of Garda overtime for frontline policing throughout the State. Millions of euro are being spent on upgrading Garda stations throughout the country and the roll out of a new state-of-the-art Garda digital radio system will commence this year.

This huge increase in the strength and resources of the Garda Síochána, supplemented by the additional resource of a well trained reserve with carefully selected powers and duties, will significantly increase the capacity of the Garda Síochána to combat crime and disorder, and provide the public with the security and safety it rightly demands.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

I wish to make it clear that it has been Fine Gael policy for a long time to establish a Garda reserve as support and back-up for the Garda Síochána, but my concern is that the ham-fisted approach of the Minister in the introduction of a Garda reserve may have damaged the successful implementation of the scheme. He has totally failed to engage the principal stakeholders — that is, those on the frontline, the members of the Garda Síochána — in the development of the proposals.

I met the presidents, vice presidents and general secretaries of both the main organisations, the Garda Representative Association and Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors early last week and made it clear to them that I was in favour of the idea but that I wanted to know their concerns. Their main concern, to which the Minister must respond, was the lack of prior consultation. They were very aggrieved that there had been no consultation whatsoever with them on the development of these proposals, what would be successfully operational and what would be the main obstacles. After all, they are on the frontline and they believed they should have had an input.

They also felt there was a serious breach of trust on the part of the Minister in that they understood from discussions with him at the time of the introduction of the Bill that this was purely an enabling measure and that it would not be introduced in the lifetime of this Government or the next one, at least while Deputy McDowell was Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. They were absolutely clear on that and felt betrayed by what had happened in the meantime.

The third issue they raised was the powers of any such force and, as the Minister knows, I am in agreement with them in this regard. They were very concerned that while on duty, members of such a force would have full powers of arrest, some of which the Minister detailed. I have major concerns that a volunteer reserve force would have powers beyond the powers of arrest available to any citizen. My approach would be that they would operate totally under the supervision and direction of the Garda Síochána.

Other areas, such as vetting, discipline etc. can be discussed but these are three principal issues arising from those meetings. What is the Minister's reaction to my comments and, in particular, to those three major issues which arose in my discussions with the representatives of the GRA and the AGSI?

Mr. McDowell

I welcome the acknowledgement by Deputy O'Keeffe that his party has solidly and fully supported the establishment of a Garda reserve and that it promised it to the electorate on a number of occasions. I note he has not, in any way, resiled from that.

On the question of consultation, as the Deputy well knows, the Bill was crafted on the supposition that the initiative and proposals for a reserve would come from the Commissioner of the Garda Síochána and that it would not be a question of the Minister deciding on a reserve and starting to consult the Garda associations. That is written into law. The strange thing is that I began to detect opposition to the process of internal consultation in which the Commissioner engaged before he made any proposals to me about the nature and functions of a reserve. I read in the newspapers about two days' training etc. at a time when I had received nothing from the Garda Síochána on the same subject. From the moment I received the Commissioner's proposals, I indicated that I would maintain an open door policy with the Garda Síochána. I pre-empted no one in this respect. I re-emphasise to the Deputy that I will talk to anybody at any time on this subject.

The second issue the Deputy raised was that when the heads of the original Garda Síochána Bill were published, I had a meeting with members of the GRA and AGSI and they had considerable problems with a number of the provisions in the Bill. For instance, at that time they indicated they would advise their members not to have anything to do with the Garda Ombudsman Commission's inquiries and that they envisaged members of the Garda Síochána would not conduct inquiries at the behest of that commission.

They had other very strong objections to, for instance, the obligation to fully account for the manner in which they carried out their duties. They expressed very strong constitutional reasons why they thought what was being proposed in the heads of the Bill was incorrect. In the course of that conversation I said to them that I did not envisage introducing the Garda reserve in the course of the lifetime of this Government. The reason I did so was because on the publication of the Garda Bill there was no indication at that time of the Government's agreement to expand the force to 14,000 because of the embargo that was in place. I had made a solemn commitment in public that I would never use the reserve as a substitute for proper recruitment and staffing for An Garda Síochána. I said that to them at the time and they know that. If they have a careful minute of what was said, I told them that was the reason, that I was not in a position at that time to deliver the extra strength to An Garda Síochána because of the freeze on Government recruitment and, therefore, at that stage I did not envisage being in a position during the lifetime of the Government to bring forward the proposals for a reserve.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

Why did the Minister not hold back then?

Mr. McDowell

Deputy O'Keeffe is aware that he urged me in this House to scrap the delay mechanism on their introduction because the legislation provided for a one year delay. He said in this House that he wanted it done now. He also said in the House that he wanted 5,000 reservists.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

Four thousand. I gave no commitment.

Mr. McDowell

No, but——

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

I want the reserve.

Mr. McDowell

I indicated in response to Opposition requests that I should expedite the introduction of the reserve force——

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

Why did the Minister not go back to the two bodies?

Mr. McDowell

The third point is in regard to power.

Acting Chairman (Mr. Carey)

Deputy Costello wishes to ask a supplementary question.

Mr. McDowell

I want to make this point in regard to power. I am in the process of consultation. The Commissioner has made proposals to me. Like the Deputy I will be very careful to ensure the reserve's powers are commensurate with its training and capacity. I will not budge from that because I, just as much as everybody else in this House, am committed to the success of a reserve. I hope the Deputy is not thinking of back-pedalling from it on the basis of its powers because it is for us in this House to decide. I will be putting the regulations for the reserve before this House. It is for us in this House to decide those issues but it is not a good reason for not going ahead with the force in principle.

Mr. Costello

The Bill that went through the Dáil contained one section dealing with the volunteer reserve force consisting of 15 or 16 lines. It was very sparse in detail. On various Stages I queried the lack of detail on protections, safeguards and training and asked for some specific details but very few specifics were forthcoming. This is part of the problem when one is introducing something as major as another police force. The Minister has referred to building up the reserve force to 4,000 members. This will have major repercussions. The reassurances that were needed at the time were not forthcoming and have not been given since, even though the Minister has gone down the road some distance towards opening the debate, having consultation and so on. The fear of the Garda Representative Association and the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors arises from the Minister's past record in regard to delivery of services to the Garda.

Acting Chairman

Will Deputy Costello formulate a question?

Mr. Costello

If it will take over six years to get 2,000 full-time trained gardaí in place but 900 reserve gardaí will be in place by September of this year it is no wonder the Garda Síochána considers this a yellow pack reserve force. Gardaí have complained they have only one pair of summer trousers, one pair of winter trousers, and that they have to provide their own torch batteries, use their own mobiles and only have analogue telecommunications. They are totally under-resourced but the Minister is ploughing ahead with this force.

Why should they not expect the worst in this respect considering that no prior consultation has taken place with the force? Consultation is only now about to commence. The Garda has organised a series of meetings around the country. Senator Maurice Hayes has given his implementation report on the Garda Síochána Act 2005, which does not include any reference to the implementation of the Garda reserve. Could we not provide the 2,000 extra gardaí to give reassurance to the Garda that it will not be babysitting an inadequately trained reserve force that is imposed on it and that the major components of the Garda Síochána Bill will be up and running? In the meantime we can have a process of consultation with the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, and the pilot scheme can be put in place so we can all see where we are going on this important issue. I agree with the Minister that we have all supported this in principle but we need to put the nuts and bolts of it together properly.

Acting Chairman

The Minister should be brief. We are well over time on this question.

Mr. McDowell

I favour a consensus approach. That is what I am doing. My door is open. I am bringing the regulations to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights. It is open to the members of that committee to bring in the representative associations and to discuss any principled difficulties they may have with them. I met with the AGSI and told it that until I had a proposal from the Commissioner I could not discuss with it rumours that I had read in newspapers.

I ask every Member of this House to look at today's Irish Examiner where there is an excellent article setting out some of the realities of a reserve force and how it operates in a neighbouring jurisdiction. It refers to the attitude of full-time police officers in that jurisdiction and their federation to such a reserve force. Anybody who reads the article by Paul Kelly in today’s Irish Examiner will come away with a strong conviction that it is a good idea.

In addition to the process of consultation we had in the course of the debate where I indicated the regulatory framework was business for another day, members of the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights went to the United Kingdom and saw at first hand the special constabulary that operates there and came back with an entirely favourable view of all of that. I could not discuss proposals I had not received. As soon as I did receive them I invited the associations to discuss them with me. They have used intemperate language describing the Commissioner's proposal as "crazy and dangerous". I reject that language out of hand. Deputy Costello suggested the Garda had used the term yellow pack but in fairness to the associations the only time this term has been used is in this House, not by the Garda. I do not propose to get into a confrontational mode.

Mr. Costello

They used another term — hobby bobbies.

Acting Chairman

We are six minutes over time on this question alone.

Mr. McDowell

I assure the House that my door is always open. I am behaving in a conciliatory way. I want everybody, including Members, to have confidence in the fact that I will fully accommodate any reasonable points people wish to make in regard to this matter.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

I am stunned by the cavalier admission from the Minister that, in fact, he was guilty of a breach of trust here and that he did say to the members as they have claimed that he did not envisage the introduction of the force.

Acting Chairman

Has the Deputy a question?

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

Why did the Minister not go back and talk to them and explain at an early stage that the situation had changed as far as he was concerned and give them an outline of his then thinking rather than present them with what they see now as a fait accompli?

Mr. Costello

Before the Minister replies, I reiterate——

Mr. McDowell

I have not breached trust with anybody. As a Minister, my trust is to implement the law as laid down by this House, as backed by all the Members of this House. It is true that when the recruitment of 2,000 extra gardaí was held back by the public service embargo I made it clear to the associations that I would not use the reserve force as a substitute for the expansion of An Garda Síochána and I am sticking to that proposition.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

It was meant to happen during the lifetime of this Government.

Mr. McDowell

Deputy Jim O'Keeffe urged me to get on with the job and remove the delays. He is now resiling from that position.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

I object to that, I am not resiling. The Minister blames everyone else. He blames me for his own breach of trust.

Mr. Costello

Is the Minister now prepared, considering all the controversy, to consult and put a pilot programme in place instead of rushing this?

Mr. McDowell

The Garda Commissioner's proposal is for a force of 4,000 with initial pilot projects in a number of areas. In 2006, 900 members will be recruited for allocation on a pilot basis to a number of areas. There was no question of there not being a pilot approach. That is why there was provision in the Estimates of €1.28 million.

Mr. Costello

It has taken six years to recruit 2,000 extra gardaí.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

If the Minister had the good grace to apologise to the two associations for the breach of trust, the environment would be much more conducive for the introduction of the scheme.

Mr. McDowell

I do not need to apologise to the associations. My door has been open. I have not used intemperate language and I will not do so.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

The Minister gave an undertaking to consult on this.

Mr. McDowell

I did not give an undertaking to anyone.

Garda Deployment.

John Gormley

Question:

3 Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of gardaí and other security personnel provided for the two refuelling stops by the US presidential aircraft at Shannon Airport recently; the cost of these security arrangements; the number of gardaí deployed at the Love Ulster rally in Dublin on 25 February 2006; the cost of those security arrangements; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9961/06]

Mr. McDowell

It is standard practice for visiting Heads of State and other similar VIPs to make the Government, via the Department of Foreign Affairs, aware of any intention to visit or pass through the State so that any necessary security arrangements may be put in place to ensure an incident-free event from the perspectives of both the visiting VIP and the local communities. In the case of two stopovers by US President Bush at Shannon Airport on 1 and 5 March last, this standard practice was fully adhered to. In response, the Garda authorities put in place security arrangements at Shannon Airport commensurate with the risk associated with the profile and standing of a President of the United States of America. These arrangements included the deployment of Garda personnel supported by the Defence Forces acting as an aid to the civil power.

It is not the practice and it would be contrary to the public interest to detail the specific security arrangements in place at Shannon, including the number of Garda personnel involved. In this regard, I hope that the Deputy will appreciate that revealing such information about past security arrangements would be manifestly detrimental to the very purpose of invoking such arrangements in the future.

I have previously informed this House that the Garda authorities deployed 281 members to police the Love Ulster parade on 25 February, with an additional 67 member detachment of the public order unit held discreetly in reserve. As the appalling scenes of rioting developed, a further 138 members arrived to assist, including a 47-strong additional group of members drawn from the public order unit. Although for sound security reasons I am not in a position to detail the precise number of gardaí deployed at Shannon, I can say, perhaps to the Deputy's disappointment, that numbers did not exceed those initially deployed at the rally in Dublin city centre, contrary to some media reports. There were fewer people at Shannon for the Bush visits than were initially deployed for the Love Ulster rally in O'Connell Street.

I am not in a position to provide details of the costs incurred by the Garda Síochána in respect of the Love Ulster rally or the Shannon stopovers, as this information is still being collated by Garda management and is not yet available. I wish, however, to comment upon the attempted juxtaposition of policing strengths at the Love Ulster rally and the security arrangements at Shannon Airport. We are dealing with two entirely separate and distinct kinds of Garda operation. The two events were entirely separate in nature and, consequently, demanded an entirely separate response for which comparisons are invalid, except to say that, contrary to what was printed in newspapers, the number of gardaí deployed for President Bush's visits to Shannon was smaller than the number initially deployed to police the Love Ulster rally.

Mr. Gormley

The Minister has not given many details, citing security reasons. I have nothing to go on other than the Minister's assurance that we cannot compare the demonstrations. Only nine people stood in the rain in the middle of the night to demonstrate at Shannon Airport. I hope the Minister accepts that many people will be annoyed to discover that a major security operation was mounted in Shannon to protect one man, albeit the President of the United States and commander-in-chief of US forces in Iraq, while on the other hand there were insufficient gardaí on the streets of Dublin to protect the citizens of the city from a rampaging mob who engaged in wanton violence and caused millions of euro worth of damage to business. Does this not demonstrate that the Minister's priorities are skewed?

Will the Minister tell the House the basis on which he mounted the security operation in Shannon? Did he have prior information that there would be trouble? There was no inkling of it on the Internet. Will the Minister explain how neither he nor the Garda had any inkling of potential violence in Dublin when the Internet was alive with traffic that indicated there would be trouble? The Minister has surveillance of the Internet but this did not require much effort. One need only have looked at the various sites and blogs. Deputy Costello indicated that there could be violence when he spoke in the House. How could the Minister not have a clue what would happen in Dublin when he is the Minister who knows what he knows?

Mr. McDowell

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform does not decide the security arrangements at any event. Such decisions are for the operational judgment of gardaí under the Commissioner. I am not consulted in advance and have no input into Garda security arrangements. I do not micro-manage them. The strength of the Garda Síochána at either event or at any other is not dictated by me so my priorities are not skewed.

I note the Deputy said he has nothing to go on since I gave no figures or costs. He has nothing to go on anyway because his point is flawed. More gardaí were not deployed at Shannon than at the Love Ulster rally. To say otherwise is not true. The fact that only nine of Deputy Gormley's sympathisers turned up in the middle of the night at Shannon is ex post facto. If 500 of his friends had turned up, he would be the first to say if there had been an incident that I was unprepared for it.

Going back to the Love Ulster events, either this House thinks it is better at policing events than the Garda or it does not. I do not under any circumstances pre-empt the way in which the Garda Síochána chooses to allocate resources save to say that it enjoys unprecedented resources in terms of numbers and money. When the main constituents of the rainbow Government were in office, the number of gardaí fell.

Mr. Gormley

If the Garda has such resources at its disposal, why was it not possible to monitor the Internet traffic that showed there would be trouble in Dublin? I have seen the sites telling people not to go into town because there would be trouble on Parnell Square. I do not understand how the Minister and Garda Síochána did not know about this in advance.

Mr. McDowell

I am not acquainted with the websites that Deputy Gormley stares at in the early hours of the morning, but one of them, www.indymedia.ie, has in the past produced interesting footage. On this occasion, it produced footage — from outside — of the Progressive Democrats Party offices being ransacked by a group of Deputy Gormley’s type of people.

Mr. Gormley

That remark is out of line.

Mr. McDowell

It made interesting viewing. We downloaded it and sent it to the Garda for investigation.

Mr. Gormley

The Minister cannot abuse Dáil privilege by making serious allegations against me. He is out of order. I would not condone any such behaviour and I politely ask him to withdraw his remark.

Mr. McDowell

I am merely saying that the party and viewpoint with which most people, including me, would most closely associate the anoraked group which descended on my party's offices would be the Deputy's.

Mr. Costello

The Minister is confusing Deputy Gormley's supporters with the Taoiseach's followers.

Mr. Gormley

His comments are outrageous. He has abused Dáil privilege in the past to engage in this kind of slur. He misled——

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

Deputy Gormley should not take the Minister seriously. His behaviour is par for the course.

An Ceann Comhairle

My understanding is that the House is debating a priority question for which the time has concluded.

Mr. Gormley

On a point of order, the Ceann Comhairle cannot allow a Minister to behave in this fashion. He has cast a slur by making a serious, outrageous allegation.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy may not make statements during questions.

Mr. Gormley

The Minister misled the House on 12 December and had done so on other occasions. He abuses Dáil privilege on a regular basis and has nothing but contempt for the House. He should disown the disgraceful remarks he made.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not a point of order.

Mr. McDowell

There was muesli in the air and open-toed sandals on the street.

Garda Training.

Jim O'Keeffe

Question:

4 Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the firearms training facilities which are available to members of the Garda Síochána; the number of times these facilities can be used; the amount spent on firearms training by the Garda Síochána; his views on whether the current provisions are adequate; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9820/06]

Mr. McDowell

Firearms training forms part of all specialist training conducted by the specialist training unit under the authority of the Garda College. I am advised by the Garda authorities that they have the use of Army firing ranges to facilitate Garda firearms training and have access to 12 such ranges countrywide. The total expenditure for the specialist training unit for 2005 was €1,959,266 which includes all salary and related ancillary costs. This figure does not include travel and subsistence incurred by individual members undergoing the training.

The number of gardaí who carry arms on duty at any particular time is an operational matter for the Garda Commissioner. I have made it clear in the past that the traditional unarmed character of the Garda Síochána has been one its key strengths in maintaining its public reputation as an approachable force which polices by consent rather than fear. This is a tradition which any reasonable member of the public would want continued.

Instruction governing the use of firearms and practical-tactical training is provided for each firearm on issue to the Garda Síochána. Members must achieve the necessary skills and standards to meet the aims and objectives for each firearms course. There is also an ongoing annual recertification programme, which includes refresher training.

Members of the Garda Síochána who successfully complete the relevant firearms training course are issued with a certificate of competency in the particular firearm. To carry a firearm on duty the member's chief superintendent must issue the member with a firearm authorisation card. I am informed by the Garda authorities that the total number of firearms cards issued for the year ending 31 December 2005 was 3,631 or approximately one quarter of the force. Responsibility for the use of a firearm resides with individual gardaí in accordance with instructions.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

One of the most far-sighted and enlightened decisions of the founding fathers of the State was to have an unarmed police force, although I accept that armed back-up is necessary. Currently, 3,600 members of the Garda Síochána hold firearms certificates and it is imperative that they have the highest professional training. Information supplied to me indicates that this is not the case as gardaí have no firing range — the indoor ranges in Dublin and Templemore are closed — student gardaí do not receive firearms training, gardaí are only allowed to practise three times per annum, no tactical training is given and 500 new SIG 6 mm and 9 mm automatics are in stores with no one trained in their use.

I understand a report is being compiled on the use of firearms. I understand this report, a copy of which I have sought but not yet received, may contain the following statement:

The firearms training situation in An Garda Síochána is at present in crisis. This crisis arises from a failure to provide a clear operational and training policy, appropriate training facilities, a proper internationally recognised—

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not in order to quote from documents during questions.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

I will abide by the Ceann Comhairle's ruling. A serious issue arises in this regard because 3,600 members of the Garda Síochána are being given inadequate training and do not have proper facilities to bring them up to the highest professional standards in the use of firearms. Guns are lethal instruments which can cause injury and damage to members of the force and the public.

Mr. McDowell

I reject the suggestion that there is a crisis. The fact that more than 3,600 members of the Garda Síochána are issued annually with a certificate for which they undergo testing every year speaks for itself. In 1985 when two certain parties were in government an indoor range was built in Garda headquarters. This range is out of service and awaiting complete refurbishment because concerns arose about the safety of the building which the Deputy's party constructed when in government. An external company has been engaged with a view to deciding how the building, which is only 20 years old, can be made safe and brought up to the proper standards.

Last year the Garda authorities submitted proposals to my Department for the provision of two Garda firearms training facilities. These are being considered by officials in my Department in consultation with the Office of Public Works. In the medium term it is planned to provide a new centre of excellence for the Garda College. A site for this centre, which will cater for a broad range of tactical training requirements for the force, including facilities for firearms training, is being sought. The Garda authorities have informed me that they are satisfied current firearms training is adequate for the present firearms training needs of the force.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

Does the Minister not accept that this is an extremely serious issue, for which he has responsibility? Does he accept that the information I cited, which was passed on to me anonymously by what I believe to be credible sources, indicates a serious state of affairs? The Minister should take responsibility in this matter and ensure deficiencies in firearms training are remedied immediately before a serious injury or accident results.

Mr. McDowell

I assure the Deputy that if the Garda Commissioner asks me for resources for firearms training and makes proposals — he has already proposed the establishment of two centres — which can be implemented, the question of resources will not arise. It is simply a matter of giving the Garda approval to put in place what is appropriate for the force. No Minister in the history of the State has given the Garda as many resources as are currently available to it. I will not stint any resource as far as gardaí being properly equipped to carry out their duties is concerned. I am satisfied the particular problem which emerged with the 20 year old indoor firing range erected when the Deputy's party was in government is being addressed.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

The Minister should stop playing politics with a serious issue.

Mr. McDowell

The other facilities to which I referred will be provided when sites are identified for them.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

The Minister should read the report of the working group from which I believe I have quoted.

North-South Co-operation.

Joe Costello

Question:

5 Mr. Costello asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform his response to the policy document recently published by the SDLP entitled North-South Makes Sense; his views on an all-Ireland agency to combat crime and terrorism, an all-Ireland criminal assets bureau and an all-Ireland sex offenders register; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9985/06]

Mr. McDowell

I welcome this important document because it represents a positive contribution to the agenda of North-South co-operation. The Government is focused on developing North-South co-operation across a full spectrum of areas. In terms of the specific areas referred to by the Deputy, a wide range of co-operation is already in place. An intergovernmental agreement on police co-operation was signed by the Irish and British Governments in 2002. This provides the framework for the implementation of the Patten recommendations which relate to the ongoing enhancement of North-South police co-operation. Closer communication and co-operation between our police services will directly assist in crime prevention and detection and can only improve the effectiveness of cross-Border policing and the fight against terrorism, drugs, smuggling and other organised crime to the benefit of all the people of this island.

Protocols for a programme of personnel exchanges and secondments between the Garda Síochána and the Police Service of Northern Ireland have been agreed. Secondments and exchanges will provide a two way flow of experience and expertise which will enhance policing standards in both organisations. Personnel exchanges have now commenced between the two forces and I intend to expand the programme. Work is progressing on other aspects of the intergovernmental agreement, such as joint emergency planning, joint investigations, training and annual conferences.

The House will be aware of the considerable amount of co-operation that takes place between the bureau and the Assets Recovery Agency in Belfast and London. Investigations are carried out in conjunction with UK Customs, the Police Service of Northern Ireland, the Assets Recovery Agency and the Revenue Commissioners. Operations have led to prosecutions and resulted in the forfeiture of assets and the breaking up of a number of organised crime gangs involved in illegal cross-Border activity. Only today, a joint CAB-ARA operation was conducted along the border into the activities of a well-known member of the Provisional IRA.

With regard to sex offences, the Sex Offenders Act 2001 contains provisions on persons travelling to and from this jurisdiction. Close liaison is maintained between the Garda Síochána and the Police Service of Northern Ireland in respect of persons subject to the Act and information on the movements of such persons is exchanged for policing purposes. A memorandum of understanding on information sharing arrangements between Ireland and the UK, including Northern Ireland, with regard to sex offenders has been negotiated by my Department and the Home Office and I expect Government approval for this shortly.

Additional information not given on floor of House.

The intergovernmental agreement on North-South co-operation on criminal justice matters was signed on behalf of the Irish and British Governments in July 2005. Under the agreement, a registered sex offenders advisory group has been established consisting of representatives of the Garda Síochána, the Police Service of Northern Ireland, my Department and the Northern Ireland Office. This group will evaluate the potential for sharing information, including potential benefits and barriers, and will identify areas for future co-operation.

This Government will continue to push forward the North-South agenda. While proposals for all-Ireland criminal agencies such as those proposed would raise constitutional and legislative difficulties, the Government will continue to promote closer co-operation between the two jurisdictions in all areas where it will prove beneficial to the people of this island.

Mr. Costello

While I am glad the Minister welcomes the proposals, can we make progress in implementing them? For example, the Criminal Assets Bureau has admitted that about 35% of its investigations into money laundering, smuggling and drugs are conducted on both sides of the Border and that its powers are different to those of the Assets Recovery Agency. The ARA can only investigate matters when the PSNI specifically requests it to do so, whereas the CAB has its own powers and responsibilities. We need a common agency with the same powers and an overarching mandate in both jurisdictions. The same applies with regard to intelligence on crime and terrorism matters. Rather than basic co-operation on registers of sex offenders, a common register is needed to cover the entire island.

While we have done some work in terms of co-operation, we have done little to create a single all-Ireland agency in these areas. Can we not, in the context of the Good Friday Agreement, implementation bodies and the North-South Council, begin to harmonise the powers of the agencies to benefit the citizens of both jurisdictions? A single agency should have responsibility in some areas, such as a single sex offenders register or a joint criminal assets bureau. These would be more beneficial in terms of delivering services.

Mr. McDowell

I have great sympathy for the Deputy's point that a single agency should combine the functions of CAB and ARA on an all-island basis. There is significant scope for cross-Border agencies of this kind and the changes made to the Constitution in the aftermath of the Good Friday Agreement make provision for their establishment. As a footnote, on a recent perusal of archival material in my Department, I noticed that some exciting proposals were made during the Sunningdale negotiations by the Irish Government for joint policing initiatives. However, we have to learn to walk before we run. We have to ensure the basis for co-operation between the forces of law and order on either side of the island is enhanced and that interpenetration takes place through secondments so as to build the necessary trust.

In principle, I support proposals to establish a single criminal intelligence body but we must be aware of political realities in Northern Ireland. It was difficult enough to persuade the majority community there to accept the Patten proposals, let alone introduce an all-Ireland dimension to some aspects of policing.

I strongly support any method whereby common notification can be made of sex offenders who are registered on either side of the Border upon conviction in the UK or Ireland, if not a single register of such offenders. However, a single sex offenders register would probably necessitate an alignment of criminal law in the area of sexual offences because complications would otherwise arise in terms of putting people on the same register if each jurisdiction provided for difference consequences for offences. I have an open mind on the question of whether a mutual recognition system or a single register is the correct approach. I concur with the Deputy that it is essential that sex offenders registers be made interoperable at the very least.

Mr. Costello

As it is a unique event that the Minister and I are at one on an issue, I wish to ask one more question.

Mr. McDowell

The Deputy wants to find one point of disagreement.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

It is getting dangerous. Will Deputy Costello accept the Minister in the next Government?

An Ceann Comhairle

We have to move on because we are out of time.

Mr. Costello

Will the Minister examine the proposals made in this document on justice and policing to determine whether progress can be made through the establishment of a combined agency? Steps could be taken by his Department and the authorities on the other side of the island towards——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should give way to the Minister. We are already 20 minutes beyond the allotted time for Priority Questions.

Mr. McDowell

The document will be closely studied and the Deputy can rest assured the Government has a substantial appetite for North-South co-operation in criminal justice matters.

An Ceann Comhairle

I remind the House that two minutes are allowed for the Minister's reply, one minute for each supplementary question and a total of six minutes per question.