It is proposed to take No. 7, motion re referral to joint committee of the Third Programme of Law Reform; No. 8, motion re leave to introduce Supplementary Estimates — Votes 20, 21, 25, 26, 27, 31, 32, 35 and 37; No. 9, motion re referral of Supplementary Estimates — Votes 20, 21, 25, 26, 27, 31, 32, 35 and 37 to select committee and No. 1, Voluntary Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2007 [Seanad] — Second Stage. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. 7, 8, and, subject to the agreement of No. 8, No. 9, referral to select committee, be decided without debate and any divisions demanded on Nos. 8 and 9 shall be taken forthwith. Private Members’ business shall be No. 22, motion re confidence in the Minister for Health and Children.
Order of Business.
Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 7, 8 and 9 without debate agreed?
I am interested in the Taoiseach's remark about a free vote. He would have a problem in respect of some of his Deputies, who are away, if it were to apply across the board. I have no problem with a free vote on an issue such as this. The Labour Party has tabled a motion of no confidence in the Minister for Health and Children. The Fine Gael Party has also tabled a motion of no confidence in the Minister. This is the most important business before the House. It affects the ability of the Government to do its job.
Members were told last week by the Minister for Health and Children that this debacle and demonstration of incompetence arose because of a communications issue. In the speech quoted by Deputy Gilmore, when the Minister introduced the Health Service Executive, she said that the Minister has the power to inform the executive of policy decisions and to direct it to carry out its duties in compliance with Government policy. That clearly did not happen in the interests of the patients in Portlaoise. Earlier I asked the Taoiseach some straightforward questions about communications and whether there were 15 wrong diagnoses in Cork University Hospital, which were brought to my attention by Deputy Coveney and Deputy Clune. The Taoiseach did not have a detailed answer even though this is about communications.
As this matter is central to the continuation of the Government, we should deal with it now. We should use Government time to deal with the motion of no confidence in the Minister for Health and Children. It is important for every person in the country. I object to Nos. 7, 8 and 9 being taken now. The most important business before the House is the motion of no confidence in the Minister for Health and Children. We should debate it now, in Government time, and the Taoiseach should agree to the proposal.
I agree with Deputy Kenny. I return to the Taoiseach's suggestion that we have a free vote on this matter. What is happening in the health services and the anxiety and pain that have been caused to so many patients, particularly in recent weeks, should not be subject to a whip. Individual Deputies should be able to express their points of view on the health service and the performance of the Minister and the Health Service Executive without fear of the Whip and they should be able to vote accordingly.
The Taoiseach's suggestion of a free vote across the House is one I and Deputy Kenny happily accept. Let us have a free vote. Deputies are privately expressing their lack of confidence in the Minister for Health and Children in their constituencies. When issues arise about hospitals or health services in those constituencies, they say it is due to the Minister and that she has nothing to do with them and is from a different party. This is about the health and lives of people in our communities. Let those Deputies come to the House now and vote according to what they think, not what they are told by the party Whip. I agree with Deputy Kenny that the debate on this issue should commence after the Order of Business. The Order of Business should be amended accordingly.
Deputy Kenny indicated that the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party have motions of no confidence in the Minister for Health and Children on today's Order Paper, and so does Sinn Féin. It is important to note that Sinn Féin previously expressed no confidence in this Minister and its shock at her reappointment following the election.
It was not its only shock.
The proposal to allow a free vote is the only way to give Members an opportunity to participate properly as representatives of their respective constituencies. There are Members of the Taoiseach's party who do not agree with the Government amendment and are of one mind with the selection of no confidence motions put down by each of the three Opposition parties. I have no doubt that there are others who will ignore the reflection of the mandate they secured in their respective constituencies and vote confidence in the Minister in all circumstances. However, the undeniable fact is that the people, across all opinion and none, have no confidence in her, but it goes beyond her. They also have no confidence in the Taoiseach because of his stewardship, in tandem with the Minister, of the delivery of health care in the State. This is the single most important issue affecting the daily lives of ordinary citizens. The template visited on the north east and the people of County Monaghan, in particular, will be coming shortly to a town near you.
Those representing constituencies throughout the length and breadth of the State should be mindful of the intentions of the Government, the Department of Health and Children and the HSE. The nightmare that the community I am proud to represent has had to live through in recent years will be part of the reality they will face in the years ahead. It is time to say "No." It is time to stop looking at the agony of the people of County Monaghan and other Border counties and to stand up and say "Enough is enough." Tonight, the way to demonstrate it is to test the position. The Government should open the opportunity for a free vote. If it is so confident——
The motion of confidence will be debated tonight. The Deputy is entitled to make a brief statement——
If the Taoiseach is so confident that Labour Party Members——
Please let me explain. Under Standing Order 26, the Deputy is entitled to make a brief statement about the item before the House, but he is not entitled to expand on it and drift into a debate on a motion of confidence in a Minister. He is only entitled to make his views known on this matter.
If the Ceann Comhairle was a member of Sinn Féin, he would know that for me this was brief.
It is lucky he is not.
The Taoiseach needs to test his belief and have confidence in his assertion. I would have every confidence in Labour Party Members and every other Opposition Deputy in circumstances where there was a free vote. I also have confidence in the fact that members of the Taoiseach's party would not support the Minister, Deputy Harney, or her pursuit of health policy if a free vote were applied by the Taoiseach. I support the demand to have this debate immediately following the Order of Business.
As I said, Nos. 7, 8 and, subject to the agreement of No. 8, No. 9 are to be taken without debate. If we could get on with discussing the Voluntary Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill, perhaps that would do something to help the health service, rather than continuing with this nonsense.
After 11 years, that is rich.
Tá
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Ahern, Michael.
- Ahern, Noel.
- Andrews, Barry.
- Andrews, Chris.
- Ardagh, Seán.
- Aylward, Bobby.
- Behan, Joe.
- Brady, Áine.
- Brady, Cyprian.
- Brennan, Séamus.
- Byrne, Thomas.
- Calleary, Dara.
- Carey, Pat.
- Conlon, Margaret.
- Connick, Seán.
- Cowen, Brian.
- Cregan, John.
- Cuffe, Ciarán.
- Cullen, Martin.
- Curran, John.
- Devins, Jimmy.
- Dooley, Timmy.
- Fahey, Frank.
- Finneran, Michael.
- Fitzpatrick, Michael.
- Fleming, Seán.
- Flynn, Beverley.
- Gogarty, Paul.
- Gormley, John.
- Grealish, Noel.
- Hanafin, Mary.
- Harney, Mary.
- Haughey, Seán.
- Healy-Rae, Jackie.
- Hoctor, Máire.
- Kelleher, Billy.
- Kelly, Peter.
- Kenneally, Brendan.
- Kennedy, Michael.
- Killeen, Tony.
- Kirk, Seamus.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Kitt, Tom.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Lenihan, Conor.
- McEllistrim, Thomas.
- McGrath, Finian.
- McGrath, Mattie.
- McGrath, Michael.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Mulcahy, Michael.
- Ó Cuív, Éamon.
- O’Brien, Darragh.
- O’Flynn, Noel.
- O’Keeffe, Batt.
- O’Keeffe, Edward.
- O’Rourke, Mary.
- O’Sullivan, Christy.
- Power, Peter.
- Power, Seán.
- Roche, Dick.
- Ryan, Eamon.
- Scanlon, Eamon.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Wallace, Mary.
- White, Mary Alexandra.
- Woods, Michael.
Níl
- Barrett, Seán.
- Breen, Pat.
- Broughan, Thomas P.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Burton, Joan.
- Byrne, Catherine.
- Clune, Deirdre.
- Connaughton, Paul.
- Coonan, Noel J.
- Costello, Joe.
- Coveney, Simon.
- D’Arcy, Michael.
- Deasy, John.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- Doyle, Andrew.
- Durkan, Bernard J.
- English, Damien.
- Enright, Olwyn.
- Ferris, Martin.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Flanagan, Terence.
- Gilmore, Eamon.
- Gregory, Tony.
- Hayes, Brian.
- Hayes, Tom.
- Higgins, Michael D.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Kehoe, Paul.
- Kenny, Enda.
- Lynch, Ciarán.
- Lynch, Kathleen.
- McEntee, Shane.
- McHugh, Joe.
- McManus, Liz.
- Mitchell, Olivia.
- Neville, Dan.
- Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
- Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
- O’Donnell, Kieran.
- O’Mahony, John.
- O’Shea, Brian.
- O’Sullivan, Jan.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Rabbitte, Pat.
- Reilly, James.
- Sheahan, Tom.
- Sheehan, P.J.
- Sherlock, Seán.
- Shortall, Róisín.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Stanton, David.
- Timmins, Billy.
- Tuffy, Joanna.
- Upton, Mary.
- Wall, Jack.
I note that the Government amendment does not express confidence in the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, at all. It acknowledges her leadership, approves her actions and supports the Minister for Health and Children. Is this a reflection——
That is not in order now, as Deputy Kenny well knows.
——of the deep concern of Fianna Fáil backbenchers who are around the corridors here whispering about the same Minister?
Rubbish.
That is a fact.
That is not in order now.
They are all over the building talking about the Minister, Deputy Harney.
Even the corridors are not safe, never mind the streets.
They are all over the country talking about her. I note the amendment does not express confidence in the Minister for Health and Children. It approves of her actions and supports her.
A Deputy
They have no confidence in her.
Deputy Kenny, we will revert to the Order of Business now.
Can I ask the Taoiseach if the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Hanafin, will now sponsor Tim Pat Coogan's book on de Valera and have it sent around to the schools of the country also?
The tide of history has turned.
Deputy Kenny knows his history.
I call Deputy Gilmore on the Order of Business.
I was going to ask if the Minister for Education and Science would circulate copies of Kingstown Republican: A Memoir——
Definitely. Negotiations are soon to be finalised.
I did not think she would and judging by what I read in the book, the Taoiseach would not either.
I do not think there is any legislation promised on it.
I see I am ruled out of order.
I was at a meeting in Buswells Hotel today. There was a scatter of Government backbenchers and others there.
It does not matter.
It was a meeting of a group of organisations representing old people. There were a number of worried looking Government backbenchers discussing promised legislation. I ask the Taoiseach to agree to withdraw the promised legislation, the nursing home support scheme Bill, which will have the effect of taxing for the first time, by way of means test, the family home and charging 85% of the income of elderly people who can no longer live in their own homes. I hope he will withdraw it.
The Bill will be published this session.
Could the Taoiseach be more specific? Will we see the Bill next week or the following week? It needs to be debated fully. Much consultation is required on this Bill.
Before the start of the next session.
Christmas Eve.
The Taoiseach stated it would be published this session.
This session runs up to the start of the next one.
I note there is a designated land Bill on the Government list of Bills. The "Prime Time" programme last night highlighted the issue of irresponsible and unsustainable rezonings. The Minister, Deputy Gormley, mentioned that he might introduce regulations to require councillors to give reasons for zoning decisions, which would be weak. As part of that Bill, will the Government introduce stronger powers to overturn unsustainable zonings, particularly in light of the need to prevent future flooding and urban sprawl, and to address climate change issues?
Is legislation promised?
Yes, for early next year.
The student support Bill has been promised for this session. The last time I raised this question, I was told the Bill is in the final stages of drafting. Can I deduce from this that it will be published before the Dáil rises for the Christmas recess?
The Minister for Education and Science tells me it will be before the Dáil returns.
It will be next year. In other words, it is not ready.
Not before the election.
I wish to raise two issues. Following from Deputy Stagg's comments, is it the Government's intention to introduce the new fair deal scheme by 1 January as the HSE is stating?
Deputies
Hear, hear.
If so, this implies the legislation will be taken before Christmas. In the light of the fact that the seven organisations representing older people have come together to raise serious concerns about the scheme's provisions and that there has been no consultation, will the Taoiseach consider deferring debate on the legislation to allow meaningful consultation to take place with all the groups concerned?
Regarding the Government's paper published some time ago on proposals to support lone parents, we were promised the publication of legislation this session to provide for the changes in welfare payments for lone parents. Is it the intention to go ahead with the legislation or when can we expect to see legislation?
On the fair deal——
It should be named the unfair deal.
——legislation is due this session before the end of January. We will have plenty of time for——
I asked the Taoiseach whether he would consider deferring the debate to allow for consultation.
It will be a matter for the Whips. They will decide the order. I have heard what the Deputy said. The social welfare, lone payment and other low income families legislation is to give effect to the discussion paper's proposals for supporting lone parents. It is due next year.
On the same proposition in respect of the fair deal legislation and the proposals contained in it regarding funding for nursing homes, is the Taoiseach indicating he will not attempt to rush the legislation through the House before Christmas? Will the Taoiseach confirm there will be the necessary further consultation required to address and assuage the fears of many older citizens? In tandem with this, will the Taoiseach indicate whether the eligibility for health and personal social services Bill, in which there is a clear overlap and connection, will be brought forward and whether both Bills can be addressed simultaneously or one after the other? There is a clear relationship between the two.
It is 12 months since the long-promised debate on collusion was recommended by the Oireachtas sub-committee on the Barron report. In the absence of legislation, we have had debates and statements on a variety of issues in recent weeks, but this debate has been committed to and there is no signal of intent to accommodate it. When is it intended to have the debate on collusion and will the Taoiseach accommodate it before the Christmas recess?
I am in favour of the debate, but it is a matter for when the Whips can order it. The eligibility for health and personal social services Bill is for next year. A discussion document is being prepared on the regulatory impact analysis and the public consultation proposals. I indicated on the first question that the legislation would be published in this session.
Several Members on both sides of the House have received requests from the Ward Union Hunt in County Meath in respect of a licence being granted. What is the delay? Does it relate to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government?
The Deputy cannot ask that question.
Will the Minister, Deputy Gormley, not allow it?
The Deputy has made his point.
Those in other coursing sports are deeply worried. The Ceann Comhairle does a bit of coursing himself.
They are worried by what is occurring with this issue. Is there a difficulty?
The Deputy is out of order. I could not allow the Deputy's question — not a hope — as we would be all over the place.
Is a proposed Bill preventing the Minister from granting the licence?
The Deputy must respect Standing Orders.
The Taoiseach is going to answer.
He cannot.
He would like to answer.
In the light of recent startling disclosures in health matters, does the Taoiseach intend to introduce at an early date the Bill to legislate for the framework of governance of information in the health sector? It is promised legislation.
Next year.
I would have thought it should be accorded more importance.
Was the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Ó Cuív, who announced legislation last weekend, taking fire from the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, regarding the renaming of An Daingean to Dingle Daingean Uí Chúis?
What is the legislation?
It was promised by the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív. What format will the legislation take? For example, will it be primary legislation or by ministerial order? When will it be before the House?
It was never mentioned.
It will not take any form because there is no legislation.