Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 14 Feb 2008

Vol. 647 No. 2

Adjournment Debate.

Services for People with Disabilities.

Deputy Joe McHugh

I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Devins, to the House. I thank him and Dr. Philip Crowley in the Department of Health and Children for their efforts in respect of this issue. Not long after I was elected, I approached the Minister of State, Deputy Devins, and in fairness he showed very good leadership. He left politics out of the issue and met with me because he felt it was an important issue. He also worked at exploring different avenues for funding the scheme to fund research for children with Duchenne muscular dystrophy.

However, I am extremely critical of the way in which the families of children with Duchenne disease have been treated. As we know, Duchenne disease involves a shorter life expectancy than muscular dystrophy. With that in mind, we are looking at children with a life expectancy of between 18 and 20 years. Two families in my constituency have been through a very long and arduous three-year campaign. They have fought tooth and nail and used their own initiative and funds to go to Sheffield in the UK to find out about the best international practice in research, new models of research and intervention which would help their children.

When the parents of one family started out, their son Liam was three years old. He is now six. They live with the expectation that he will survive until the age of 18 or 20. They feel very let down because their expectations were heightened throughout the process. They were given hope and open-ended promises in terms of getting funding for research for their children.

The second set of parents from my constituency had two children with Duchenne muscular dystrophy, one of whom is two years old while the other is seven. These parents have spent three years lobbying and campaigning and have been given the false expectation that they would get funding.

I wish to put on the record a one-line answer in correspondence dated 8 February 2008 which I received today, 14 February. The sentence was "Regarding your request for direct Irish Government funding for the trial, there is no mechanism or budget for Government funding to UK health research". That one sentence says it in very black and white terms. Why were these parents and other parents throughout Ireland not told that this was not an avenue to go down from the very beginning? Why were they not told that they would not get Irish Exchequer funding for research in the UK? This is a nonsense because we are not funding UK research. We are funding hospitals within the UK who will help the survival rates of children in this republic.

This is the crux of the argument. These parents feel let down. They were given expectations and false hope. They used their own energies and funds and are now left in a complete vacuum as to what they can do. In fairness to the Minister of State and Dr. Crowley, there are proposals within this correspondence which the parents may attempt to use but, believe me, they have tried these avenues and know that these are not the routes to go down. This is a very specific question of funding. International testing is being carried out in the UK from which these parents could benefit and which could help their children live longer. It is as simple as that. The Minister of State has been through this experience with his own family and I ask him to empathise with these people who are at a crossroads and do not know where to go. They want his help and that of the Government to allow them continue this journey and to ensure their children live beyond 18 or 20 years of age.

Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Deputy Jimmy Devins)

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue which I will take on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mary Harney.

As the Deputy is aware, officials from the Department of Health and Children and myself met with representatives of Muscular Dystrophy Ireland in October of last year and discussed at some length the issue raised by the Deputy. I commend the Deputy on the dedication he has shown regarding this issue. At that meeting a presentation was made by Muscular Dystrophy Ireland on seeking funding towards a proposed trial of IV Exon skipping therapy by the MDEX consortium in the United Kingdom.

I issued a letter to the director of Muscular Dystrophy Ireland last week — I apologise to the Deputy if he received it only today but it was issued from my Department last Friday — outlining the Department's position on funding research trials into Duchenne muscular dystrophy in the UK.

I assure the Deputy that I am very aware of the situation for these families. I am aware also of their hopes regarding a proposed trial of IV Exon skipping therapy by the MDEX consortium in the UK. This trial is one of a number of related trials on different Exon skipping therapies being planned in different centres.

It is very positive that Muscular Dystrophy Ireland has secured access for Irish children to the Duchenne muscular dystrophy registry in the UK in order that they can be considered for inclusion in the first systemic trial of this treatment.

Regarding the request for direct Irish Government funding for the trial, unfortunately there is no mechanism or budget for Government funding of UK health research. I have spent some time since the meeting in October investigating the options after meeting with Muscular Dystrophy Ireland. As explained at that meeting, the consortium could apply to the Health Research Board for joint funding for the proposed trial but it would have to compete with all other proposals being received by the Health Research Board.

The Department of Health and Children cannot directly fund UK or Irish research. I assure the Deputy we have examined every possible alternative in this regard. We can only recommend that the researchers apply to the Health Research Board. I would be hopeful, however, that the much larger research funding bodies in the UK will fund this research if they are convinced of the merits of the trial.

Scéimeanna Tógála Scoile.

Deputy Dinny McGinley

Ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghabháil leis an Cheann Comhairle as ucht deis a thabhairt dom an cheist seo a thógáil ar an Athló. Cé nach bhfuil an Aire Oideachais agus Eolaíochta anseo, tá lúcháir orm go bhfuil an Aire Stáit, an Teachta Pat Carey, anseo. Tuigeann sé go maith na deacrachtaí atá ag bunscoileanna nach bhfuil áiseanna ceart curtha ar fáil dóibh. Cosúil liom féin, bhí sé ag teagasc i mbunscoil le blianta fada. Is dócha go dtuigeann an bheirt againn na deacrachtaí a bhíonn ann nuair nach mbíonn na háiseanna cearta ar fáil. Is é an scoil ata i gceist anseo ná Scoil Chonaill i mBun Beag i gceartlár Gaeltacht Dhún na nGall. Tá suim ar leith agam sa scoil os rud é go raibh mé mar phríomhoide ann sular tháinig mé isteach sa Teach seo. Ó am go ham i rith na 25 bliana ata imithe uainn cheap mé go mb'fhéidir go mbeadh orm filleadh ar mo phost sa scoil, ach níor tharla sé go fóill buíochas le muintir Thír Chonaill a choinnigh anseo mé.

Tógadh Scoil Chonaill, le ceathrar seomra ranga, i 1960. Is scoil den seandéanamh — an sean-chóras múinteoireachta — é. Ní raibh sé dalta-lárnaithe, nó pupil-centred, nuair a thógadh é. Cuireadh dhá seomra breise leis an scoil ó shin. Tá sé seomra ranga i Scoil Chonaill i láthair na huaire. Tá seachtar múinteoir i mbun ranganna sa scoil faoi láthair. Tá dhá múinteoir riachtanaisí speisialta ann. Tá rang speisialta, rúnaí agus cúntóir teangan sa scoil. Cé go bhfuil 12 daoine fásta i mbun oideachais de chineál amháin no chineáil eile sa scoil, níl ach sé seomra ranga ann. Níl cúinne nó pasáiste amháin sa scoil nach bhfuil rud éigin ar siúl a bhaineann le oideachais. Níl sé sin sásúil sa lá atá inniu ann. Tá iarratas istigh le blianta fada anuas ag lorg áiseanna breise a chuir ar fáil don scoil. Tá dul chun cinn déanta, ach i láthair na huaire tá siad ag fanacht leis an solas glas ón Roinn Oideachais agus Eolaíochta agus an Aire.

Tá socruithe eile déanta ag an scoil. Muna mbeidh na húdaráis ag dul i mbun oibre ar an scoil, beidh ar na múinteoirí agus na daltaí an scoil a fhágáil agus dul go dtí láithreán de chineál éigin eile. Tá socruithe déanta ag údaráis na scoile leis an CLG go mbeidh cead acu seomraí réamhdhéanta a chur suas agus úsáid a bhaint as áiseanna na CLG. Tá na socruithe déanta. Tá cead pleanála faighte fá choinne deisiúcháin agus méadú a dhéanamh ag an scoil. Tá cead acu dul go dtí tailte agus ionad Chumann Lúthchleas Gael. Tá gach uile rud réidh anois ach tá siad ag fanacht bliain i ndiaidh bliana. Ba mhaith liom dá mbeadh an tAire ábalta dóchas de chineál éigin a thabhairt. Muna n-éiríonn linn rud éigin a dhéanamh i mbliana tá seans go dtitfidh na socruithe atá déanta acu le Cumann Lúthchleas Gael as a chéile. Bhí socruithe déanta le óstán, ach mar go raibh sé ró-fhada ón scoil agus go raibh coinníollacha ag teacht isteach, thit sin as a chéile. Tá obair mhór déanta ag an bord bainistíochta agus ba mhaith leo anois go mbeadh scéala ag teacht chucu.

Mar a dúirt mé, tá suim ar leith agam sa scoil seo. Scoil lán-Gaeltachta é ar a bhfuil clú agus cáil. Bíonn sí páirteach i Scór agus i Féile Scoil Drámaíochta. Is minic a bhain an scoil craobh na hÉireann — beagnach gach bliain. An bhliain nach mbaineann sí craobh na hÉireann, bíonn rud éigin mícheart. Tá na múinteoirí agus na daltaí ar fheabhas. Tá aithne mhaith agam orthur uilig, ach mar a dúirt mé, tá siad ag gníomhú i bhfoirgneamh atá ann ó 1960, 50 bhliain. Tá a fhios ag an Aire Stáit gur mór iad na hathruithe a tháinig ar chúrsaí oideachais le caoga bhliain anuas. Mar sin, níl na páistí, na múinteoirí nó an scoil ag fáil cothrom na féinne. Tá gach scoil eile sa cheantar go maith, cuireadh méadú leo agus tá siad nua-aimseartha, ach tá Scoil Chonaill i lár an pharóiste agus na háiseanna atá aici mar a bhíodar i 1959 agus 1960 nuair a tógadh an scoil. Tá a fhios agam go maith go dtuigeann an Aire Stáit chomh práinneach agus atá an cás. Tá súil agam mar sin go mbeidh scéala agam le tabhairt ar ais chucu tráthnóna inniu agus go dtosóidh an obair ar Scoil Chonaill go luath agus muna mbíonn an obair ar siúl an ráithe seo go dtosóidh sé, ar a laghad, an bhliain seo.

Minister of State at the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Deputy Pat Carey)

Tá mé ag tabhairt freagra ar an Athló ar son an Aire Oideachais agus Eolaíochta, an Teachta Ní Ainifín.

Is mian liom buíochas a ghlacadh leis an Teachta as ucht deis a thabhairt dom seasamh na Roinne a léiriú don Dáil maidir le síneadh a chur le Scoil Chonaill, An Bun Beag, Contae Dhún na nGall agus an scoil a athchóiriú. Tá an síneadh agus an t-athchóiriú atá beartaithe don scoil seo ag céim 3 den phleanáil ailtireachta i láthair na huaire. Infheisteofar beagnach €4.5 billiún i scoileanna faoi i saolré an phlean forbartha náisiúnta. Is leibhéal infheistíochta caipitil é sin nár facthas riamh cheana agus is léiriú é ar thiomantas an Rialtas leanúint lena chlár infheistíochta inbhuanaithe i scoileanna bunoideachais agus i scoileanna iarbhunoideachais. Leis an infheistiocht sin, éascófar soláthar scoileanna nua agus síntí i limistéir atá ag forbairt agus éascófar feabhsúchán na scoileanna atá ann cheana féin trí scoileanna athshóláthair, síntí nó athchóiriú ar scála mór a chur ar fáil sna blianta ata amach romhainn. Déantar cur chun cinn na dtionscadal tógála go léir atá ar scála mór ón gcéad chéim deartha go dtí an chéim tógála a bhreithniú ar bhonn leanúnach i gcomhthéacs an phlean forbartha náisiúnta agus i gcomhthéacs chlár ilbhliantuil tógála agus nuachóirithe scoileanna de chuid na Roinne. Ar an dóigh chéanna, déanfar an tionscadal dá dtagraíonn an Teachta a bhreithniú sa chomhthéacs sin. Ba mhaith liom a dhearbhú don Teachta go bhfuil an tAire agus an Roinn tiomanta cóiríocht oiriúnach ar ardchaighdéan a chur ar fáil do Scoil Chonaill, ach ní féidir liom a rá go dtárlóidh sé sin an bhlian seo.

Deputy Dinny McGinley

Tá mé thar a bheith díomách.

Schools Building Projects.

Deputy Joan Burton

I call on the Minister for Education and Science to immediately convene a forum of parents, patrons, principals and other stakeholders in education in Dublin 15 to create a fair and just school enrolment system. This is the time of year when schools throughout Dublin 15 enrol children. Once again, confusion reigns among parents in the Diswellstown, Littlepace, Clonsilla, Tyrelstown and other developing areas of Blanchardstown and Castleknock as to whether their children will get one of the few coveted places in their local primary school next September.

Every day for the past seven or eight years has been groundhog day, with the recurring school place crisis in Dublin 15. Last year, in the run up to the general election, the Minister for Education and Science made a lot of promises about resolving the matter. The then Minister of State with responsibility for children, who is now Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, had his Department fund a ground-breaking report on education and the demand for school places in the Dublin 15 area.

That report was launched to great fanfare by the Minister and proposed, in its 13 principal recommendations, a round-table forum of all the stakeholders and a Green Paper from the Government to deal with the issue of planning for enrolment in areas such as Dublin 15, where there is an explosion in the school-going population and particularly in the new Irish community.

This week the Minister for Education and Science announced her intention to apply for planning permission for three new primary schools in Ongar, the Phoenix Park racecourse and at Kellystown near Clonsilla. There was no consultation. It is not clear how children will be enrolled for these schools. It may be that — as in the case of Scoil Colm, established at the last minute last year under the patronage of the Archbishop of Dublin — these schools will be primarily for children who have failed to get into the existing schools in the area. Therefore, as in the case of Scoil Colm and the Educate Together school in Balbriggan, they may end up being the schools for those children left out. Do we really want to develop ghettoised schools where almost all children are from a non-Irish background?

No matter how fantastic the work of the parents and teachers in schools such as Scoil Colm and Balbriggan Educate Together, which I admire greatly, it is not a desirable development in the long run to have segregated schools. In true Department of Education and Science fashion, the Minister and her officials seem determined to repeat the mistakes of earlier years and of other educational situations like the debate on autism and plunge blindly ahead regardless of the best interests of children and parents. It is time to consult and develop a fair and coherent system of school enrolment that facilitates children attending their local schools. I have proposed a national convention on education to address the delicate question of ethos and religion in respect of education. The primary problem remains the lack of coherent planning for places and the timely building of schools.

The Minister for Education and Science has announced three new schools but cannot tell us who will attend these schools or the enrolment procedure. We are piling mistake on mistake. The Minister must receive an all-party delegation, as her predecessors used to do, on education in Dublin 15. She is in hiding and while she may have money for the situation she is not considering the best interests of development of the whole community, including members of the traditional Irish community who have purchased houses, who work, pay PAYE and expect a primary school for their children. It is not good that a child from a new community may never go to school with an Irish child through all of the primary cycle and possibly the secondary cycle. This could be resolved if the Minister is prepared to address the issue.

Deputy Pat Carey

I am replying on behalf of the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Hanafin. I thank the Deputy for raising this matter as it gives me the opportunity of outlining to the House the actions being taken by the Department of Education and Science to address the school accommodation needs of the Dublin 15 area.

The Minister for Education and Science is conscious that the Dublin 15 area is one of the most rapidly developing areas in the country and, as a result, there has been a marked increase in the demand for primary school places. The Department is taking a number of measures to increase the capacity of existing schools in the area concerned along with the development of new schools to meet this growing demand. All building projects arising from these are awarded a band 1 priority rating under the Department's prioritisation criteria for large scale building projects to ensure they are delivered as expeditiously as possible.

The position on recent and ongoing developments in the provision of school accommodation in the Dublin 15 area is as follows. A new 16 classroom school for Mary Mother of Hope national school in Littlepace opened in September 2007. A new school for Castaheany Educate Together is on schedule to open for September 2008 and a new school for St. Benedict's national school is set to follow for September 2009. Extension projects for primary schools in Castleknock, Blanchardstown and Corduff are also being progressed. In the Diswellstown area, St. Patrick's national school moved into a new 24 classroom school last year. This will facilitate an annual three stream intake. In addition, St. Mochta's national school was expanded in 2006 to cater for an annual four stream intake. An extension to cater for this development has been progressed to architectural planning. A site has been secured for a new school for Tyrrelstown Educate Together national school and the building will be provided as soon as possible.

A new State model community national school, under the patronage of the County Dublin Vocational Education Committee, is to be piloted in Phibblestown from September 2008. This will initially provide accommodation for an eight classroom school, to be expanded up to 24 classrooms as need is assessed. The Department conducted a survey of all primary schools in Dublin 15 to determine the number of junior infants who enrolled in September of 2006 and 2007. This survey indicated considerable numbers of children applied to enrol in more than one school. While this is understandable from parents' point of view, it has the result of inflating the number of children apparently seeking places.

Notwithstanding this, the Department of Education and Science is aware of the accommodation demands for September and is addressing this requirement. I can assure the Deputy that all options will be considered to ensure there are enough school places in September. This may include the provision of school transport if necessary.

Due to the level of demand emanating from the Dublin 15 area, the need to make further provision at primary level in addition to that outlined above is being kept under review by the Department. To this end the Minister for Education and Science has established a developing areas unit, headed by a principal officer, whose sole focus is to ensure that significant pupil places will be available in such areas of demand. The Minister is confident that the measures outlined will assist in alleviating the immediate demand for pupil places in the area.

National Monuments.

Deputy Joe Costello

I welcome the opportunity to raise this important issue, the conservation and development of the structures at Nos. 14-17 Moore Street. There is a longstanding campaign on this issue. The site is where the 1916 leaders made their last stand. The decision was taken by the city council that this be declared a national monument and developed into an interpretative centre, museum and a history centre. The Shaffrey report was produced in November 2005. Arising from that comprehensive report the city council agreed to include Nos. 14-17 Moore Street on the record of protected structures. This was followed shortly afterwards by a visit to the area, with great fanfare, by the then Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and a declaration by the Taoiseach himself who announced in December 2006 that No. 16 Moore Street was to be a national monument.

One would be forgiven for thinking the listing of the buildings as a protected structure and a national monument would ensure it would be protected and developed in accordance with its new status due to its historic importance. However, nothing has been done to protect these buildings, which have been allowed to fall into a state of disrepair and dereliction. The elements are causing damage to the buildings, this national monument is rapidly falling into dereliction and the local authority seems content to allow this to continue. As far as I understand, the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has taken no action. Slates are missing from the roof of the building and damage has occurred to the interior. If the building is not protected there is every chance it could be declared a dangerous building and its protected status would be short lived in those circumstances.

Part of the problem relates to the delay in the development of the adjoining streets, the so-called Carlton site, which has been beset by legal difficulties, but these have now been resolved. That said, this is no excuse for either the local authority or the Government. The local authority put the building on its list of protected structures but left it unprotected, and the Government declared it a national monument but took no steps to do anything about it. I seek a commitment that the building be surveyed as a matter of urgency, with a view to protecting both the exterior and the interior. In addition, I wish to hear an outline of the proposals for the building. The Taoiseach referred to long-term phased proposals between now and 2016. He also made proposals regarding the GPO. Nothing specific has been decided about the building's future. Will the building become a museum, a visitor's centre or a heritage centre? When will something happen? We cannot allow private developers to rule the roost and, in the meantime, neither the State, its agencies nor the local authority appears to be in a position to do anything to protect this structure.

Deputy Jimmy Devins

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue which I will take on behalf of my colleague the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley.

In January 2007, Nos. 14-17 Moore Street in Dublin 1 were given strengthened statutory protection as a national monument through the placement on these buildings of a preservation order under the National Monuments Act 1930. The status of the buildings as a national monument derives from the fact that No. 16 Moore Street was the location of the final headquarters of the leaders of the 1916 Easter Rising and it is where those leaders took their decision to surrender. Nos. 14, 15 and 17 Moore Street were included in the preservation order along with No. 16 to protect the amenities of the latter building. The building meets the statutory requirements to be considered a national monument, because its preservation is considered to be a matter of national importance by reason of the historical interest attaching to it. The buildings in question were also included on Dublin City Council's record of protected structures some years ago.

The Planning and Development Act 2000 empowers the relevant local authority to take action to secure the conservation of protected buildings such as Nos. 14-17 Moore Street. It is understood that in late 2005 Dublin City Council required a programme of emergency works to be undertaken to temporarily secure the fabric of these buildings. Objectives in the current Dublin City development plan 2005 to 2011 also provide that it is the city council's policy to seek the conversion of No. 16 Moore Street into a council-owned and administered museum serving both commemorative and educational roles.

The national monument at Moore Street remains in private ownership. In those circumstances, and while considerable effort has been expended to protect this highly significant element of our national built heritage, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is not responsible for the day-to-day maintenance and upkeep of these buildings. These responsibilities fall to the private owners of the buildings.

The Minister, however, has a statutory function which comes into play in regard to any future development of privately-owned national monuments, including their physical adaptation for new uses, or in cases where such monuments may be affected by development in their vicinity. Essentially, the effect of the relevant statutory requirements is that any proposed works affecting the national monument, including any excavation or ground disturbance within, around or in proximity to it require the prior written consent of the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government before they can proceed. In considering any such applications for consent, the Minister is obliged to consult with the director of the National Museum of Ireland before making a decision in the case. A person who contravenes the provisions of the National Monuments Acts with regard to these ministerial consent requirements is guilty of an offence and liable, upon conviction, to substantial fines or terms of imprisonment.

The Minister is aware of his duty to ensure the protection afforded to the national monument through the statutory provisions of the National Monuments Acts is fully respected and that all persons, in particular, the owners, are fully aware of the legal protection extending to these properties and of their legal obligations in this regard.

The expertise of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government in matters relating to archaeological protection and architectural conservation is available to provide any relevant advice sought by the buildings' owners or agents on matters relating to the conservation and protection of the buildings on Moore Street. To this end, informal discussions have taken place, wholly on a without prejudice basis, between officials in the Department and the agents responsible for preparing proposals for the re-development of the area in which the buildings on Moore Street are located. These discussions took place primarily with a view to ensuring the owners and their representatives are fully aware of and responsive to the legal requirements attaching to the preservation order. They also have been advised of the relevant statutory requirements relating to ministerial consent to any works affecting the monument.

The Minister is satisfied that Nos. 14-17 Moore Street are comprehensively legally protected both through the National Monuments Acts and within the planning code. As a prescribed body under Article 28(1 )(c) of the Planning Regulations 2001 the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government must be notified by a local authority of any proposed development likely to impact on the built or natural heritage. In the context of any such referral in the future it is the Minister’s intention to carefully consider the potential impact on the monument of any re-development proposals for the area in which the national monument in Moore Street is located.

If in due course proposals come before the Department seeking the consent of the Minister for works affecting or in proximity to these buildings he will consider such proposals, in consultation with the director of the National Museum of Ireland, with a view at all times to ensuring the national monument is preserved for the future and, if possible, enhanced. The Minister is satisfied, therefore, that the Department will have ample opportunity to make an input into any future development proposals in regard to or affecting Nos. 14-17 Moore Street.

I assure the Deputy and the House that the Minister is determined to protect the national monument to the fullest extent of his power, acting in the best interests of securing the integrity of No. 16 in particular into the future.

The Dáil adjourned at 5.20 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 19 February 2008.