Vol. 651 No. 4
1 Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence if, in view of a statement to the Houses of the Oireachtas on 27 June 2007, he will take steps to have the Chief of Staff made the accounting officer for Defence Forces expenditure; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13507/08]
I apologise for the absence of the Minister for Defence due to illness.
The overall system of financial management and accountability in respect of defence spending was specially reviewed as part of the efficiency audit group process in the 1990s. As a result, the Government decided that the Secretary General of the Department of Defence should continue to be the Accounting Officer for all defence spending and that greater financial authority should be delegated to the military authorities. This position was restated in the White Paper on Defence, published in February 2000.
Since the Pricewaterhouse report, a substantial amount of day-to-day expenditure has been delegated to the Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces. More than €215 million, including €59 million for Permanent Defence Force allowances, has been delegated in 2008. The delegated amount represents 68% of total Defence Forces non-pay expenditure in the 2008 defence Estimate. The delegation covers a wide range of spending areas, including Defence Forces allowances, transport, equipment, training, engineering and IT. In addition, the Chief of Staff has authority to undertake general recruitment within the overall approved strength level of 10,500 personnel in the Permanent Defence Force.
The present system of delegating financial authority to the Chief of Staff has worked well and the current approach meets overall defence requirements from both an operational and a financial management point of view. The civil and military elements of the Department of Defence jointly operate a modern management information framework. Senior civil and military management meet on a regular basis at the high level planning and procurement group and the strategic management committee to review and monitor financial and other performance indicators. These systems work very well and there are no plans to change them. It is, of course, a matter for other organisations to adopt financial management systems best suited to their own requirements.
The defence organisation as a whole has been one of the success stories of the public service reform and modernisation agenda in recent years. The management and accountability framework within which both the Department of Defence and the Defence Forces operate has contributed to this achievement.
I join with the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and the Minister of State, Deputy Kitt, in wishing the Minister, Deputy O'Dea, a speedy recovery.
Two years ago the Garda Commissioner was designated the Accounting Officer for the Garda Síochána. Why should the Chief of Staff not be designated as the accounting officer for the Defence Forces? This approach was recommended by the first efficiency audit group report in 1990 and also by the Gleeson report. The former report indicated that it was a fundamental problem that the Secretary General of the Department, as Accounting Officer, was accountable for the spending of the defence Votes but was responsible neither for the actions of military staff, whose activities account for over 97% of the Vote, nor for the successful and efficient achievement of operations and military objectives. Conversely, the Chief of Staff, and Adjutant-General and the Quartermaster-General are directly answerable to the Minister for Defence for the control of some 13,000 staff and for the objectives and outputs of the Defence Forces but cannot control the budgets allocated to these outputs, which are largely under the control of the secretariat. This does not seem reasonable. Delegation is not responsibility.
Is there any indication of a change in the future? Will the Chief of Staff come to the Dáil and appear before the Committee of Public Accounts to account for the actions and expenditure of the Defence Forces? It is unfair on the Chief of Staff that he must be accountable for the actions of personnel but cannot appoint them. The Chief of Staff should be able to make critical decisions on where to spend resources within the Defence Forces, but he cannot do that. It is the role of the Secretary General. Is there any overview being taken of this in the context of the decision that was made about the Garda Commissioner, for example?
It is important to acknowledge that the Defence Forces has been one of the success stories of public service reform. The structures, roles and reporting arrangements of organisations differ from the management of defence. I would like to reflect briefly on the difference between the Garda and the Defence Forces, although we do not have much time. The Department of Defence, with a Minister as head, has a civil and military element. The civil element is headed by the Secretary General and the military element by the Chief of Staff. The relationships among the Chief of Staff, the Secretary General and the Minister are established in the Defence Acts. The Secretary General is the Minister's principal policy adviser and he or she is also the Accounting Officer. Day-to-day operational control of the Defence Forces rests with the Chief of Staff, for which he or she is directly responsible to the Minister. Effective operation of this structure is critical to the management of defence. This pragmatic and balanced legal framework operates to maximise the efficacy of defence provision. It respects the role of the Chief of Staff and the overarching principle of ensuring civil control of the military.
The arrangements in the Garda Síochána and the HSE are presumably appropriate to their respective roles, relationships and structures. I am aware the Garda Commissioner, as the Deputy said, performs the role of Accounting Officer for the Garda, reporting to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform through the Secretary General of the Department. It would be unwise to assume that this could be applied to the benefit of the defence organisation. It is a different scenario. We have had many debates about semi-State bodies and the need for ministerial accountability but this has worked well for the Defence Forces. We will continue to improve management as required.
The Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, said here last June that the individual responsible for the output must be responsible for the finance. That is a critical role. It is happening in the Garda and now also in the HSE. I also remind the Minister of State that delegation is not the same as being the Accounting Officer. I know that a new White Paper is being prepared. Can the Minister of State give a commitment that this aspect of the Defence Forces arrangements will be considered in the White Paper?
Looking to the future, the organisation and management of the Defence Forces will be improved and modernised as required, but I stand by my position with regard to the difference between the areas of defence and justice.
2 Deputy Brian O’Shea asked the Minister for Defence the latest position in regard to the deployment of Irish troops to serve with the United Nations mission to Chad; the progress made with regard to supplying the contingent; the number of troops in place to date; the timetable for the deployment of the remainder of the contingent; the most recent information available on the security situation in the region; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13568/08]
4 Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence if all arrangements are in place for the deployment of Army personnel to Chad, including transport arrangements, helicopter backup, water supply and so on; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13736/08]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 and 4 together.
The European Union military mission to Chad and the Central African Republic, EUFOR TCHAD/RCA, established under the authority of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1778 (2007), was formally launched by the General Affairs and External Relations Council on 28 January 2008. Ireland will be the second largest contributor to the mission, with 450 personnel. The aim of the mission is to protect civilians in danger, particularly refugees and internally displaced persons, facilitate the delivery of humanitarian aid and protect UN personnel.
The mandate for this mission is robust. It will be conducted under Chapter VII of the UN charter, allowing the use of all necessary force to ensure the success of the mission. The EU force is authorised to support the UN and to take all necessary measures within its capabilities and its area of operation to fulfil its functions. EUFOR is committed to conducting its operations in a neutral and impartial manner.
A total of 83 Defence Forces personnel are currently serving with EUFOR: 18 at the operational HQ in Paris and 65 in Chad, including 53 personnel of the Army Ranger Wing. A ship containing all the heavy equipment of the Irish battalion, which departed Dublin on 26 March 2008, is scheduled to arrive at Douala port, Cameroon, on 12 April. A team of 23 Irish personnel has deployed from Ireland to Douala port to receive the ship on its arrival. This team will organise the movement forward of the Defence Forces' cargo by road, rail and air to the headquarters of the Irish battalion at Goz Beida in eastern Chad, a distance of some 2,700 km.
The advance group of the 97th infantry battalion, comprising 177 personnel, will fly to N'Djamena at the end of April and will move forward to Goz Beida on an agreed schedule. The advance group's primary mission is to construct the Irish camp in Goz Beida. The main body of the 97th infantry battalion is scheduled to arrive in Chad towards the end of May. The Netherlands will deploy a contingent of 60 personnel with EUFOR, which will be fully integrated into the Irish battalion.
Because of the nature of the operation, the mission area and the environment, force protection will be a key consideration. The Defence Forces will deploy a full range of force protection assets, including armoured personnel carriers. The military authorities have indicated that, while the level of risk is consistent with any operational deployment into a troubled African state, it is one which the Defence Forces have the capability to manage.
There will be a sufficient water supply available in Chad to meet the needs of the Irish contingent. I have been informed that the Defence Forces have already tapped two wells in the area of operation. These wells can produce 3.2 cubic metres of water per hour. This water supply is sufficient to meet the needs of 700 personnel. The Defence Forces also have a purification system in place that will be used to treat all water before use and for the recycling of used water. In addition, an ample supply of bottled water will be available.
In early February and on 1 April, fighting took place between Chadian forces and rebels. EUFOR personnel were not involved in these incidents. However, the situation in the Republic of Chad is currently calm.
Key enablers, in particular tactical and medevac helicopters and medical facilities, are currently in place thus allowing the mission to proceed. Having being satisfied that the capabilities required to support EUFOR's main force deployment had been established, Lieutenant General Nash, the EUFOR operation commander, declared that the mission had achieved initial operational capability on 15 March this year. This marked the start date for the 12 month duration of the operation as set out in UN Security Council Resolution 1778.
When the full EU force is deployed, it will comprise 3,700 personnel. A total of 1,800 EUFOR personnel are already deployed in Chad. This now affords the operation commander and his staff the opportunity to plan for the follow-on deployment of three multinational battalions, including the Irish battalion. The mission is planned to reach full operational capability by mid to late May.
I also extend my best wishes to the Minister, Deputy O'Dea, and I trust he will make a full and rapid recovery. However, the Minister has a very capable deputy and I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Tom Kitt.
I thank the Deputy for his remarks.
Can the Minister of State assure the House that the MV Zeranat, which is on its way to Douala in Cameroon, is not operating under a flag of convenience? Is the crew of that ship engaged under proper pay and conditions? I understand the incident that took place in N’Djamena was a political one and therefore that Irish troops would not be involved. Last month, the Minister, Deputy O’Dea, informed us at question time that it was unlikely that such an incursion could be mounted again before the end of the rainy season, which begins in June. Will the Minister of State provide us with an update in that regard? Is that still the security advice available to the Department, that no such incursion can take place before the end of the rainy season? Apart from that, is there any indication whether it is any more likely that it can happen after the rainy season?
I can assure the Deputy as to the pay and conditions on the ship because that is part and parcel of the standards that apply in this situation. With regard to the recent incidents in Chad, in early February and on 1 April, fighting took place between Chadian forces and rebels. EUFOR personnel were not involved in these incidents. EUFOR has no role in the protection of the sovereign territory of Chad. Incursions by rebel forces are a matter for the Chadian authorities and do not fall within the remit of the EU mission. An awful lot of work is currently going on with EUFOR conducting an information campaign within its area of operations. The purpose of the campaign is to promote EUFOR's credibility, will and capability to fulfil its mission. The campaign is being conducted by means of leaflet hand-outs and radio advertisements. Clearly, much good ground-breaking communications work is going on at present. To answer the Deputy's other question, it is all being done in the context of preparatory work, making ourselves familiar with the local community, ensuring that everybody sees Irish emblems, such as Irish flags flying on vehicles, using radios and leaflets, and using our military information officers to get the message across.
I noted the Deputy's comments on the rainy season and I accept that he is correct in that regard. Full deployment will be achieved by the end of May. Prior to full deployment, my officials are anxious to ensure a full briefing for the spokespersons present here.
In view of Lieutenant General Nash's appearance on the Late Late Show, surely he could also appear before our committee dealing with defence matters to bring us up to date with a special briefing. Surely that is as important as appearing on the Late Late Show. I am, therefore, requesting such a meeting.
Having visited Africa on numerous occasions, the Minister of State is no doubt aware that the temperature in Chad will be 45 to 50 degrees. Our mission will never have experienced those types of temperatures before. The Irish Army will arrive in Chad at the start of the rainy season. I understand it will be on an island which is cut off. From the first question time on this mission last October, I have been asking what back-up the mission will have, including medevac helicopters to move those injured in combat or otherwise. In addition, what reconnaissance back-up is available? If troops cannot travel by land over much of this hostile territory because of the rainy season, they will have to do so by helicopter. During a previous question time the Minister said they would have to depend on others, such as the French, for helicopter back-up. Do our troops have their own helicopter back-up? Can the Minister of State confirm if progress has been made in providing such back-up facilities? Has a hospital been established in Abeche? How will people be taken from there to the main hospital in Italy?
On the final point, each battalion will provide a role one medical facility at the battalion headquarters, at Goz Beida in the case of the Irish battalion. This medical support includes the capability to provide first aid, immediate life-saving measures and triage. Three role two facilities are available at N'Djamena, operated by the French, at Abeche, by Italy and at Berrau in the Central African Republic, by France. Role two medical facilities are the UN standard and normally cover advanced life support and basic surgery.
I wish to make one point concerning the helicopters. The Minister, Deputy O'Dea, has said that because the mission has been generously funded, in summary, what we need we will get. That includes helicopter provision, although the precise details are not available at the moment.
We have to depend on others.
Medevac choppers are available. As I said, we will keep Opposition spokespersons continuously updated prior to the end of May.
What about Lieutenant General Pat Nash?
I have met Lieutenant General Nash on a number of occasions and will forward the request made by Members to him. I feel this would be appropriate at a particular time but he is very engaged in the process at the moment.
I understand, from the figures we received, that there are still around 180,000 refugees in camps in Sudan. Is there any indication that more refugees may wish to cross the border, now that the EUFOR mission is in place? I was very heartened to read that Lieutenant General Nash said Irish troops were exceptionally well received and that the people of villages they visited were anxious that they stay because they felt more secure with them around.
From what the Minister has told us, all the indications are that things are developing well and that this is a well-planned mission. Is it likely that the number of refugees in camps in Chad will increase now?
The figures I have suggest there are around 4,200 refugees in the camps and among those there are internally displaced persons, IDPs. I understand that this figure is remaining constant. We will keep the Deputy updated on changes in the figures.
The Deputy is correct that there has been a warm welcome for troops and in my view the communication system is working well. As we all said previously in the House when we last addressed this matter, it is important that the distinctive Irish position be communicated. I welcome the fact that Army personnel were on "The Late Late Show" to inform the public of what is happening.
I support this mission, although I acknowledge, along with my colleague, the Minister for Defence, Deputy O'Dea, that it is not safe. All missions have risks but, thankfully, things are going extremely well so far.
3 Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence if the level of funding available to the Defence Forces for humanitarian purposes will be increased for their various missions; if they could have access to overseas aid in these cases; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13735/08]
The primary role of the Defence Forces, when deployed overseas, is to undertake essential peacekeeping and peacemaking operations under a UN mandate.
As part of their participation in peace support operations, the Defence Forces have traditionally adopted a number of small-scale humanitarian operations in support of the local communities where they are deployed. Recent examples of this are in Liberia and Kosovo.
The main source of funding towards this humanitarian work comes in the form of a financial subvention from the Irish Aid programme, which is administered by the Department of Foreign Affairs, supplemented by the voluntary contributions of contingent members.
In Liberia the arrangements and procedures put in place between the Department of Defence and Irish Aid proved very effective for the expenditure of funds provided by Irish Aid. Each rotation by the Defence Forces was given €15,000 by Irish Aid, that is, €30,000 per annum, and each rotation had delegated authority for the approval and implementation of projects financed from the funds provided.
In the case of projects supported by the Defence Forces serving in Kosovo, Irish Aid provides funds on a case by case basis. Since 2005, Irish Aid has provided funding in excess of €150,000 towards such projects.
This funding has proved to be a very effective means of supporting communities and integrating our forces into local communities and I expect this arrangement with Irish Aid to continue. I would not expect, however, that the Defence Forces would increase their engagement in this regard as it might impact on their primary role overseas — peacekeeping and peacemaking.
I am sure the Minister of State accepts €150,000 is a rather derisory figure in one sense. In Liberia, Kosovo, Lebanon and elsewhere the humanitarian element of the work of our missions has been hugely important. It has helped our troops gain the trust and confidence of local people. In Liberia and Kosovo the Defence Forces have built schools and hospitals and have been involved in other very important community projects. However, they had to fundraise to get some of the money necessary for such work. They had to seek sponsorship in their communities despite the fact that we spend almost €1 billion on overseas aid. This does not seem to make sense.
Humanitarian work constitutes an important part our Defence Forces' missions so I ask that the Department of Defence consider providing more funding. The Defence Forces are not on missions in very many areas but I ask that they receive more generous overseas aid support in such places. This would be very simple, in view of the good work they do. Collecting money for projects in areas in which they operate has put a burden on the Defence Forces.
I totally agree with the Deputy regarding the huge value of this work. When I addressed the House on the last occasion, I mentioned that I had been privileged to visit Liberia and see the projects in which our Defence Forces are involved. Since I last spoke I have visited Kosovo and witnessed the great work our Defence Forces are involved in there, such as the construction of classrooms and school playgrounds. This work brings our personnel into contact with local communities.
Irish Aid provides a lot of money, some €4.75 million in 2007, in funding for humanitarian relief projects in Chad. The list of non-governmental organisations, NGOs, involved includes Médecins sans Frontières, Concern, Trócaire and so on. All of our major agencies are there along with international agencies and UN agencies, such as UNICEF.
I agree with the Deputy that it is important we support our Defence Forces and are generous when they come across a project in which they wish to participate. Some of the Defence Forces decide to raise money and this adds value because it helps build a connection with communities in Ireland also. I commend the Defence Forces on this and encourage them to continue this practice. There is a role for Irish Aid, where appropriate.
As I said in my opening remarks, we must not forget that the primary function of our Defence Forces on these missions is to keep the peace. However, the work the Deputy has mentioned is vital and I would encourage the projects the Defence Forces take on, on a case by case basis.
I am sure the Minister of State will agree that overseas aid agencies should not feel threatened by the Defence Forces carrying out this kind of work. If troops on missions are to integrate and communicate as much as possible with local communities, as is hoped in Chad, humanitarian work may help them maintain their security. Very worthwhile projects involving schools and hospitals are going on and should be supported.
I feel we should encourage projects that help development. I am not suggesting that Irish people are exceptionally special but Irish Army personnel serving abroad have shown they have great skill, commitment and interest when it comes to humanitarian work. When this arises, on a case by case basis, the Government should be supportive.
Question No. 4 answered with Question No. 2.
5 Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence when a decision will be made on the proposed increase in overseas allowances for the Defence Forces in view of the Chad mission; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13737/08]
A claim for an increase in overseas allowance was received from the Permanent Defence Force Other Ranks Representative Association and the Representative Association of Commissioned Officers, under the conciliation and arbitration scheme, C & A scheme, for members of the Permanent Defence Force. The claim has been the subject of correspondence between the Department and the representative associations. The Deputy will appreciate that as discussions under the C & A scheme are confidential to the parties involved, it would not be appropriate for me to comment further on the matter at this time, other than to say that the claim is being addressed within the terms of the social partnership agreement, Towards 2016.
The current rate of overseas peace support allowance payable to enlisted personnel serving overseas ranges from €56.93 to €60.98, per day. In addition to this, an overseas armed peace support allowance of €23.00 per day is payable for certain missions.
The current rate of overseas peace support allowance payable to officers serving overseas ranges from €74.60 to €82.08, per day. In addition to this, an overseas armed peace support allowance of €24.11 per day is payable for certain missions.
Given that the Chad mission will be different from missions to Liberia, Bosnia or Lebanon because of the different terrain and the challenges it will face, surely a decision should be made on the overseas allowance before the Defence Forces go to Chad. As I understand it, a 5% offer is on the plate. To a private that would mean about €4, which is derisory. I understand that at a PDFORRA conference last year the Minister gave an indication that if a proposal was put forward for 15% he would look favourably on it. In view of the difference between this mission and missions to Liberia, Bosnia, Lebanon and elsewhere a determination should be made on the increase in the allowance as soon as possible. It is not that our Defence Forces are asking for it, but it would show an appreciation of the work they are doing and the challenges they face. While they are in the Army to undertake missions such as this, at the same time they must be rewarded and acknowledged as much as possible.
I ask Members to ensure their telephones are turned off, please.
Irish troops are deployed on missions in many locations throughout the world on pay and allowances that are not established by reference to any particular mission. They are established in the normal course, including through discussions through the conciliation and arbitration scheme. That is the way the process operates. There is no unnecessary prolonging of the negotiations in this case. My Department and the Department of Finance are available to both associations for discussion on the matter.
It is not because they are going to Chad, I realise there are other missions, but could the overseas claim be determined as soon as possible to coincide with the mission to Chad?
I would like to see this matter proceed as quickly as possible. My Department and the Department of Finance are available to both associations. Let us try to get moving on this issue as quickly as possible.
