Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 2 Jul 2008

Vol. 658 No. 2

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 20a, statements on Haulbowline; No. 21, Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2008 — Second Stage (resumed); No. 22, Dublin Transport Authority Bill 2008 [Seanad] — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 23, statements on climate change.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the proceedings on No. 20a shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 55 minutes, and the following arrangements shall apply: the statements shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 40 minutes, and shall be confined to a Minister or Minister of State and to the main spokespersons of the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, who shall be called upon in that order and may share their time, which shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; immediately following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall take questions for a period not exceeding 15 minutes; the suspension of sitting under Standing Order 23(1) shall take place at 1.30 p.m., or on the conclusion of No. 20a, whichever is the later, until 2.30 p.m.; the proceedings on the resumed Second Stage of No. 21 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 4.45 p.m. today; the following arrangements shall apply in relation to No. 23: the statements of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, and the statements of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case, Members may share time, and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes; and Private Members’ business shall be No. 45, motion re fishing industry (resumed), to conclude at 8.30 p.m., if not previously concluded.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are four proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 20a agreed to?

Deputy Enda Kenny

I thank the Taoiseach for agreeing to have a discussion on Haulbowline, which was raised by Deputies Coveney, Stanton, Clune, Ciarán Lynch and others yesterday. I note from reports this morning that the Minister met with residents of the Haulbowline area yesterday evening and was complimented on his openness, although a conclusion was not brought to the matter. In view of that openness, I ask the Taoiseach whether it is intended to release the five reports that were produced on this issue. Given that we are having a discussion with the Minister in the House to answer questions, can I take it that these five reports will be released and made available to Deputies who wish to study them?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not strictly a matter for the Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is a matter that will emerge in the course of the statements. I do not know whether it is possible to release them or whether there are legal issues. I do not have a clue.

Deputy Enda Kenny

Will the Taoiseach encourage their release? It is possible.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 20a agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal regarding the suspension of sitting under Standing Order 23(1) agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 21 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 23 agreed to? Agreed.

Deputy Enda Kenny

With regard to the Dublin Transport Authority Bill, Deputy O'Dowd has brought it to my attention that the Minister brought in a number of amendments on Committee Stage which were quite difficult to understand and undertook to give information to the Deputies in advance of Report Stage. I understand that information has not been forthcoming. Deputies are now going into Report Stage without clarification of those amendments.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

It was cleared by me to go to the Deputies last week.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

I have received no information whatsoever. The Minister was not able to explain the issue. It was not that I did not understand it. The Minister could not explain it.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

I explained it.

Deputy Enda Kenny

Second——

Deputy Noel Dempsey

The Deputy should check in his office.

Deputy Enda Kenny

I understand information was also to be provided about the routes for which a public service obligation will apply and that has not been forthcoming either.

While I am on my feet, I will ask the Taoiseach another question. Deputy James Reilly has raised on numerous occasions the issue of the fair deal legislation for persons in long-stay institutions. I know the Bill will not be produced before the House rises but it may be introduced towards the back end of the year. However, a number of incidents have arisen in which people have no money left and they are now in dire financial straits. It is open to the Taoiseach to do something in respect of the——

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot go into that now.

Deputy Enda Kenny

——in respect of the situation that applies.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy knows this is about promised legislation.

Deputy Enda Kenny

With regard to that legislation and in view of the complications that have arisen, does the Government intend to do anything in the interim to assist people who are now suffering not only medically with various illnesses but also from serious financial constraints?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach on the legislation.

Deputy James Reilly

On the same issue——

The Taoiseach

As I have said, the legislation will not be taken this year. I am not in a position to say what arrangements, if any, are being made. The Minister for Health and Children has carefully considered the question and the matter is being discussed at the moment. When a decision is reached an announcement will be made. There is no decision.

Deputy James Reilly

I understand that the legislation will not be introduced, but surely the Taoiseach is in a position to make arrangements to instruct people to release the funds and ring-fence the €110 million. A person who visited me recently spent €350,000, sold his house and had €1,200 left. What should he do now?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot deal with this matter on the Order of Business. Does the Deputy understand the position?

Deputy James Reilly

I do but the Ceann Comhairle should sympathise with people in such circumstances. There should be an increase in the subventions payable and the €110 million should be ring-fenced.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan

I wish to raise a point related to legislation on the same issue. We have been told several times that the Minister is considering using some of the money to alleviate hardship. Will the Taoiseach tell us when this consideration will finish in order that we can give answers to people?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputies should only raise matters related to legislation on the Order of Business.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

I wish to raise two matters. A report on a fire in County Tyrone last November was released yesterday following an independent inquiry. We seem to be slower in receiving reports following independent inquiries. There was an independent inquiry into the tragedy in April 2007 involving the four members of the Dunne family in Monageer, County Wexford. I understand the report was due for publication in April this year but that this deadline was then extended by three months. I understand from reports yesterday that its publication is being delayed again. When will it be published and released?

The second issue I wish to raise arises from a judgment of the European Court of Human Rights yesterday involving a number of human rights organisations. It was established that over a seven year period every telephone, fax, e-mail and data communication between the United Kingdom and Ireland, including legally privileged and confidential information, had been intercepted and stored, en masse, by an electronic test facility operated by the British Ministry of Defence. This breaches the human right to privacy.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot deal with this matter on the Order of Business.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

Two legislative issues arise from it. There was a call by a human rights organisation involved for legislation on surveillance here and in the United Kingdom to be tightened as a result of the judgment. The finding by the European Court of Human Rights is shocking. Has the Government taken immediate action to seek assurances from the British Government that this practice will not continue? What consideration is it giving to legislation arising from this case?

The Taoiseach

I do not believe legislation is promised in that regard.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

What about the Monageer report?

The Taoiseach

The persons conducting the inquiry asked for a little more time to finalise the report and we granted the extension. The report has not yet been completed but should be available in the coming months.

Deputy Lucinda Creighton

My question relates to the Civil Partnership Bill. I understand there has been much discussion in the Taoiseach's party on the legislation in recent days. Media reports suggest the Taoiseach and his party have given a commitment relating to the promotion of the special position of the family set out in Article 41 of the Constitution. What does this mean? What will the Taoiseach do to promote the special position of the family set out in Constitution through this or other legislation? Is he committed to this approach, given the anti-family record of his party in government in terms of tax individualisation and so on?

An Ceann Comhairle

Is legislation promised in this regard?

Deputy Noel Dempsey

It is due later this year.

The Taoiseach

If the Deputy wants to know what goes on in the rooms of the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party, she should join the party.

Deputy Lucinda Creighton

I am asking about legislation and want to know precisely what the Taoiseach intends to do to promote the role of the family in the Civil Partnership Bill. It has been suggested in the media that this is what he will do.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is legislation promised in this regard?

The Taoiseach

The Civil Partnership Bill is due later this year.

Deputy Richard Bruton

When he was Minister for Finance, the Taoiseach promised that the deposit protection scheme, protecting depositors in banks, would be reformed. The British authorities today announced legislation to provide three times more deposit protection for those investing in Northern Ireland than is provided for persons investing here. When will we see legislation in this regard? Does the Taoiseach agree there is considerable urgency attached to this issue in the light of the British changes?

The Taoiseach

I will check with the incumbent Minister the position on this matter.

Deputy Richard Bruton

The Taoiseach's memory is short.

Deputy Enda Kenny

It is blank in spots.

The Taoiseach

It is not a question of my memory being short, but of whether legislation has been promised — it was certainly being considered.

Deputy Joan Burton

The Taoiseach promised to review this area.

The Taoiseach

I do not recall giving a public commitment but the point is, regardless of whether my memory is faulty, we will check this out.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan

I have a leaked e-mail from Nenagh Hospital.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy cannot raise the issue of Nenagh Hospital on the Order of Business, no matter how serious it is.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan

I wish to ask about the promised Teamwork report on the reorganisation of health services in the mid-west. It has not been published but it appears that it is being implemented by stealth by the HSE in the mid-west. Acute services in smaller hospitals are to be closed with services transferred to the Mid-West Regional Hospital. Will the report be published and debated in the House?

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the report to be laid before the Dáil?

The Taoiseach

I understand the report will be made public in the normal way as soon as it has been cleared by the internal HSE review process that involves the corporate team of the board.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan

It is being implemented already.

The Taoiseach

I am advised by the HSE that the Teamwork report has not yet been concluded and that a further meeting has taken place between consultants and the HSE which anticipates that the final report will be submitted to its board for consideration shortly.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan

The Government must do something about the issue, as the HSE is running away with itself and operating like a secret society.

Deputy Joan Burton

I want to ask the Taoiseach about his earlier assertion that the Minister for Finance will come before the House to make a statement on the Exchequer figures. A major media event is promised for later today and Fianna Fáil is trying to control a bad news story as best it can.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

What legislation can we pass in the Dáil to deal with this?

An Ceann Comhairle

Does Deputy Burton have a question on legislation?

Deputy Joan Burton

The Taoiseach said the Minister for Finance would come before the House. Therefore, my question relates to the business of the House.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

He did not say that.

Deputy Joan Burton

The Minister for Finance is to come before us and get over his shock and depression at holding the office during the bad times. When will he come before us and what will be the parameters of the statement he is to make? Will we be told about cutbacks, economies or savings being sought by the Government? The Taoiseach said yesterday and this morning that the Minister for Finance was to come before the House with a statement.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

He did not say that.

The Taoiseach

I did not say it.

Deputy Joan Burton

What will be the parameters of the statement?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must resume her seat because this is a continuum.

Deputy Joan Burton

Share prices in most major banks are falling because the Government cannot get a grip on this issue. Will the Taoiseach explain what he is to do?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must resume her seat because she is completely out of order. If I allowed every Member to do what she is doing, we would be here all day, every day, doing nothing else. We cannot have this.

Deputy Joan Burton

We cannot allow the economy to go down the tubes while this shower look on. We cannot allow the economy be talked into a recession by those on the Government benches.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

Who is talking it into a recession?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must resume her seat while the Ceann Comhairle is on his feet. I do not want to ask her to leave the House but will if I must.

Deputy Joan Burton

I thought the Ceann Comhairle would care about the economy, even if those on the Government benches do not.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Broughan.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

The Taoiseach misled the House this day last week, perhaps inadvertently, on legislation. As happens occasionally, he was badly advised by the Minister beside him. He said no legislation was necessary regarding the graduated learner driver licence but it has become clear in recent days that such legislation is necessary. Our legal advice suggests——

An Ceann Comhairle

Is legislation promised in this regard?

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

The Minister for Transport does not seem to know about this, yet we know, our colleagues know and those involved in the Road Safety Authority know.

An Ceann Comhairle

Points of clarification may not be raised on the Order of Business.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

Those on the Labour Party benches should stop telling untruths, as I never said that.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

The Taoiseach told me that the regulation had been passed. The Minister whispered to him.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is legislation promised?

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

Was the Taoiseach misled by the Minister for Transport on that occasion?

An Ceann Comhairle

Is legislation promised in that area, Taoiseach?

The Taoiseach

I do not believe I was misled by the Minister for Transport. The Deputy will have to show me the record. I do not know what he is talking about.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

The Taoiseach told me that no legislation was necessary, but it clearly is.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy O'Dowd.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

Everybody knows it is. What a Government.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

I would like to make a point about the Dublin Transport Authority Bill 2008, which is to be considered by the House this evening. When, on Committee Stage, the Minister introduced at least two amendments which he was unable to explain, I was promised——

Deputy Noel Dempsey

I explained them to the Deputy.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

I asked him to explain what the amendments meant.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

The Deputy was unable to understand them.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

The Minister was unable to explain them.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

Not at all.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy can raise that matter with the Minister during this evening's debate.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

The record will show the Minister promised that——

An Ceann Comhairle

I cannot go into that now.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

——I would be briefed on these matters before the Report Stage debate on the Bill.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

The Deputy got a brief.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Minister to allow Deputy O'Dowd to finish.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

That debate will take place tonight.

An Ceann Comhairle

What is the Deputy's question?

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

Why have we not been briefed on these issues?

Deputy Noel Dempsey

The Deputy got a brief.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

I was not briefed.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputies should stop the argy-bargy.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

The Deputy got a copy of the briefing document.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

On a point of order, I am asking about important legislation that is going through the House at present.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

I will deal with it later.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

The Minister could not explain the amendments on Committee Stage. He has not explained them yet.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

The Deputy got a brief.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

Second, on legislation that was considered in this House last week——

Deputy Noel Dempsey

If the Deputy cannot understand the brief, that is not my problem.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

I got word at 8.10 p.m. that this was to be debated the following day.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

That was dealt with last week.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

The notice I got from the Fianna Fáil Whip said that I had been briefed on the matter by the Department. I was not briefed by the Department.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will have to raise that in another way.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

The arrogance of the Minister is unacceptable.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

It is matched only by the Deputy's own arrogance.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

It is a disgrace that he is continuing to act in this manner.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy knows that I cannot go into that now.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

He should resign his position. He is a disgrace.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

It is at least three weeks since the Deputy called for my resignation.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

The Minister is arrogant and useless. He is a waste of space.

Deputy James Bannon

Many people are forced to go abroad to access realistically priced dental care as a result of the rip-off that is happening in this country.

An Ceann Comhairle

Do not mind the rip-off. Ask a question.

Deputy James Bannon

When can we expect the dentists Bill, which I hope will bring some sort of reality to this country's dental costs, to be published?

The Taoiseach

I answered that yesterday. There is no date for the Bill.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I would like to pick up on the point made by Deputy Gilmore about the surveillance that was carried out by the British Ministry of Defence. It seems that there has been a significant breach of the international rule of law. I suggest that the proposed covert surveillance Bill be brought to the House. Can the Taoiseach indicate when it might be brought into the House? It seems to be an obvious vehicle for a discussion on this issue.

An Ceann Comhairle

It sounds better than the overt surveillance Bill.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Absolutely.

The Taoiseach

There is no date for the Bill in question.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

As the Government will not take that route, I would like to mention another delectable legislative provision that it might consider in this regard. I refer to the legislation that will give effect to the EU framework decision that allows the Irish courts to enforce fines which are imposed in other EU member states. That sounds like a nice little Bill. There is nothing to stop the Government from introducing it effectively. It may be seen as attractive at the present time because it is self-financing.

An Ceann Comhairle

It does not matter whether it is nice.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I think it is nice.

The Taoiseach

To what Bill does the Deputy specifically refer?

An Ceann Comhairle

What is the exact title of the Bill in question?

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I refer to No. 68. There is some difficulty there.

The Taoiseach

There is no date.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

It is like everything else, a Cheann Comhairle — no reply, no answer, no solution. Nothing is happening. The lights are on, but there is nobody at home.

Deputy James Reilly

I am afraid to stand up at the same time as my colleague, Deputy Durkan. Is the Taoiseach aware of the lack of regulation of laser eye clinics? Is legislation pending in that regard? People who have been treated, at great expense to this country, have gone blind. People have died at cosmetic clinics.

An Ceann Comhairle

To what legislation does the Deputy refer?

Deputy James Reilly

The legislation that is planned is the health information Bill.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy can ask about that.

Deputy James Reilly

Will that Bill contain anything that will help to regularise and regulate these clinics?

An Ceann Comhairle

The contents of the Bill are not relevant on the Order of Business.

Deputy James Reilly

The clinics in question are referred to in the profession as "seagull clinics".

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Taoiseach to respond to the Deputy on the health information Bill.

Deputy James Reilly

People come to this country to perform surgery and leave without offering any after-care to patients.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have a debate on health now.

Deputy James Reilly

Our health service has to pick up the bill.

The Taoiseach

The health information Bill will be introduced next year.

Deputy James Reilly

The Taoiseach should answer my question.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Hogan.

Deputy James Reilly

What is the answer?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach answered the question.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

There is no answer.

An Ceann Comhairle

He did answer.

The Taoiseach

It will be introduced next year.

Deputy James Reilly

More people will go blind and die in the interim.

Deputy John Cregan

The Deputy would have heard the first answer if he was not talking so much.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I have asked on a number of occasions about the legislation that needs to be introduced if we are to revamp some of our housing schemes on foot of the 50% reduction in affordable and social housing output.

An Ceann Comhairle

To what Bill does the Deputy refer?

Deputy Phil Hogan

The legislation in question was promised in the programme for Government.

An Ceann Comhairle

Come on now.

Deputy Phil Hogan

When will the housing (miscellaneous provisions) Bill be published? It was promised for this session.

The Taoiseach

It will not be introduced in this session. We hope to have it published during the summer.

Deputy Phil Hogan

There is no urgency.