Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 18 Dec 2008

Vol. 671 No. 2

Priority Questions.

Public Order Offences.

Charles Flanagan

Question:

1 Deputy Charles Flanagan asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the action he proposes to take in the context of the recent murder of a law-abiding citizen in inner city Dublin and the evidence from this murder that a serious societal problem exists whereby anti-social behaviour is rife in certain areas and is capable of escalating into serious violence and even murder, the easy availability of dangerous offensive weapons and the failure of legislative measures aimed at tackling anti-social behaviour measures to date. [47434/08]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern)

The House had the opportunity last week to express its abhorrence at the killing of Mr. O'Kane. A person has been charged in connection with this killing and the Garda investigations are continuing. Consequently, I am greatly constrained in what I can say about the specific incident.

The criminal use of firearms is very serious and is tackled by An Garda Síochána with appropriate strategies. Tackling public order issues is also a priority for both the Garda and the Government. This is evidenced by the resources we have committed to front line policing, which I am determined will continue to have top priority. A focus of Operation Anvil has been removing illegal weapons from circulation. To date, more than 2,200 firearms have been seized since its inception in 2005. As the House is aware, I have also made proposals for dealing with the easy availability of weapons through tackling the issue of licensed handguns.

Since 2002, when the Garda introduced Operation Encounter specifically to target anti-social behaviour, almost 520,000 public order offences have been detected. Strong provisions are now in place to combat anti-social behaviour and the abuse of alcohol, which is the root cause of much criminal and anti-social behaviour. The Criminal Justice Act 2006 enacted provisions to combat anti-social behaviour by adults and children. The Intoxicating Liquor Act 2008 gives further significant powers to the Garda to tackle binge drinking and the availability of alcohol to under age people.

I recognise that dealing with public disorder is an issue on which co-operation between the Garda and the local community is vital. That is why I am proceeding with the roll-out nationwide of the joint policing committees, following a successful pilot phase.

I attach great importance to tackling crime by juveniles in a focused and comprehensive way. The Irish Youth Justice Service was established within my Department to develop an integrated response to youth offending within the framework of the Children Act 2001. However, none of these measures can substitute for the primary moral and legal responsibility on parents where the behaviour of their children is concerned.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

The Minister began his reply by stating there was an opportunity in the House last week to debate the increase in the number of murders and the indiscriminate use of guns on our streets. Regrettably since that occasion, only one week ago, there have been three further murders in the State, bringing the total number of murders this year to 47, some 20 of which can be categorised as so-called gangland killings. What steps is the Minister taking to deal with this increased pattern of UK-style gun and gangland culture in our cities? Youths seem to have free and easy access to guns, vicious and deadly knives, and swords. Communities are being terrorised and people are living in fear and anxiety. What steps are being taken by the Minister?

The Minister has given the same reply today as last week. There does not appear to be any sense of urgency on the part of the Minister, nor does there appear to be any sense of leadership. Has the Minister noted the recent comments of the former Police Commissioner of the City of Boston, Ms Kathleen O'Toole, who currently performs an admirable role as Chief Inspector of the Garda Inspectorate? She suggested relentless policing is important to ensure gangsters, gangland criminals and youths who are prepared to kill are apprehended prior to killing. Has the Minister examined the model in Boston, whereby a crime hot spot is targeted and youths in that area are dealt with by community police prior to committing offences?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

The debate on this matter took place last week and I will not discuss the issue of Garda resources. It must be accepted that, especially on the streets of Dublin, there are significant levels of policing. Most Deputies, especially those from outside Dublin, recognise that there are substantial numbers of gardaí on the streets. At present, there are some 14,200 and this figure will rise to 14,900 by the end of next year. There is also the programme of civilianisation, involving approximately 2,500 people working in stations as civilians which enables gardaí to work on the streets instead of in the office.

I welcome the comments made by Ms Kathleen O'Toole, which I read extensively. Thankfully, the Garda Inspectorate has been a great catalyst for change within the Garda since its inception. I recognise her comments and I understand from discussions with Garda management that the force targets hot spots of anti-social behaviour where young people congregate and that it is focussed on cases where young people commit crimes on public transport.

Let us consider the significant figures related to community policing. There are some 690 dedicated community gardaí and there are youth diversion projects in place in more than 100 areas throughout the country. Let us consider the response in the probation service and remember the ASBO legislation and the substantial commitment to its implementation, which is ongoing. Substantial efforts have taken place in this area. A significant feature in tackling anti-social behaviour and juvenile crime is the work of the Garda with local communities and parents and this work is ongoing.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

I refer to one aspect of the Minister's reply. Anti-social behaviour orders were introduced by legislation in 2006. Why are they not working? How many ASBOs have been sought and how many have been granted? The numbers are very small. Why is this measure not working in the manner claimed by the Minister's predecessor?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

As I previously stated to the Deputy, anyone who says the legislation is not working is not considering the facts. Substantial numbers of anti-social behaviour warnings have been issued to adults. To the best of my recollection, approximately 900 such warnings have been issued since the inception of the legislation in early 2007, some 600 of which have been issued to children.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

The Minister should deal with the orders.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

I am coming to that. I understand 12 good behaviour contracts and six ABSOs have been sought by the Garda, including some for adults and some for children. It is entirely a matter for the Garda and it is not my role to direct the force. The Garda must use the legislation in place. Anyone who says it is not working is misrepresenting the situation.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

I am not. How many have been issued?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

It is not merely a matter of the number of ABSOs issued. It is a question of dealing with children and young adults.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

It is not.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

Some 900 adults and 600 children are dealt with in this way.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

That is not what is contained in the Minister's folder. If the Minister will not put the figure on the record, then I will. The answer is three ASBOs. I put that on the record. The figure is contained in the Minister's file and he has refused to say it, because it is an embarrassment.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

Some six ASBOs have been sought and three have been granted.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

Only three have been granted.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

I have no say in the granting of the orders and the Deputy is misrepresenting the situation by suggesting otherwise.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

The Minister is responsible for the legislation.

Departmental Agencies.

Pat Rabbitte

Question:

2 Deputy Pat Rabbitte asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the position regarding contacts he has had with the Equality Authority regarding difficulties they will face as a result of his decision to cut its budget by 42% for 2009; the reason he did not accept the suggestion put forward by the board of the authority for alternative cuts that would have resulted in savings of 32%; his views on the resignation of a person (details supplied) as chief executive and his view that the budget cut imposed by his Department had rendered the authority unviable; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [47438/08]

Deputy Dermot Ahern

At the outset I wish to state the Government's absolute commitment to the principles of equality and the elimination of discrimination as enunciated in much equality legislation passed by the Oireachtas. I commend the work of the Equality Authority and I state my commitment to ensuring a secure and viable future for the Agency.

The Government and its predecessors promoted the legislation which earmarked €47 million for the Equality Authority since 1997, increasing from an initial budget of €378,000 and rising to €5.9 million in 2007. The Government and its predecessors increased the number of staff in the Equality Authority to 53 in 2007.

We will continue to earmark substantial taxpayer resources to the Equality Authority to allow it to carry out its core functions as per the legislation. Naturally, when the national finances permit, we will also ensure that the budget of the Equality Authority is appropriately increased.

I am requesting all agencies which fall under the remit of my Department, including the Equality Authority, to engage in coming months with the expenditure review group which will take an independent analysis of the position relating to their budgets, efficiencies and the capacity to fulfil their core functions.

I accept that 2009 will be a difficult year for all public bodies, including the Equality Authority and other agencies in the justice area. However, I am satisfied there is sufficient funding for the authority to enable it to discharge its core functions. I welcome the statement this week from the board of the authority declaring its commitment and determination to continue to work effectively and independently for the elimination of discrimination and the promotion of equality in our society.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

Is it not hypocritical in the extreme of the Minister to trot out some mealy-mouthed platitudes in the House about his commitment to equality, when he has driven out the chief executive from the Equality Authority and has effectively broken up the agency? Is it not the case that the Equality Authority cannot possibly discharge its functions under the strictures now on it? What is the point of reiterating that this Government has done this, that or the other? The agency has only been in existence for approximately ten years and Fianna Fáil has been in government throughout that time. The Minister could take any agency and multiply its funding by ten years' budgets to give the impression of enormous largesse and support.

Is the Minister proud of the fact that he has driven out the chief executive, a man who has won commendations on all sides in respect of his performance and the independent and courageous manner in which he discharged his duties with integrity? Is the Minister satisfied that the agency has effectively been undermined because it cannot and will not be able to discharge its functions in the future?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

The ethos of my political party on its formation was to bring equality into a highly divided and class-ridden society. I take pride in the fact that all of the equality legislation that has been passed by this House has been introduced by Fianna Fáil-led Governments, of which neither Deputy Rabbitte nor his party, the so-called Labour Party, the party of the people, was a member.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

That is not true.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

As for the specific issue of the Equality Authority, Members on all sides, particularly those in the Opposition, have been constantly raising the valid issue of spending on public relations and consultancies. It will do no harm to refer to the 2007 report, which Deputy Rabbitte should have read before coming into the House, on the Equality Authority. In 2007, it spent €220,000 on public relations and €100,000 on consultants. A total of €614,000 was spent on the European Year of Equal Opportunities, half of which came from European funding and half from its own budget, giving a net expenditure of €300,000. It also spent €350,000 on an anti-racist week and €230,000 on a national campaign against ageism, the expenditure on which was criticised by the Opposition in this House. It spent €184,000 on publications and, in effect, €440,000 on rent of premises in Dublin. However, it could make savings by going down and spending only €120,000 on rental accommodation in Roscrea, where 15 employees of the Equality Authority already reside. When Members on the other side of the House raise the issue of consultancies and expenditure, it is valid to go through such expenditure to ascertain where there can be savings.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I wish to facilitate a brief supplementary question.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

Again, I revert to the point that I made previously——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

If the Minister will have regard to the Chair please.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

I wish to finish my point, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. I wish to again emphasise——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I must inform the Minister that a strict time limit applies, including the time for ministerial responses.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

I will revert to the issue later.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister should allow the Chair to operate.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

While Members do not have time at present to deal with the novel proposition that the purpose of Fianna Fáil coming into existence was to address our class-ridden society, they may return to it at another time. What does the Minister purport to have told Members in his reply, having read out various expenditure headings? Which of them does he suggest is improper? Is it not the task of the Equality Authority to deal with issues such as racism? If excessive rental costs for the headquarters have been incurred, who approved them? Why did someone in the Minister's Government not do something about it over the past 11 years?

Can the Minister assure the House that the forcing out of Mr. Niall Crowley has nothing to do with the Equality Authority's referral to the Garda Síochána of an allegation that the Secretary General of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, while head of the Prison Service, had breached the Employment Equality Acts? If the Minister is so interested in saving money, is it not the case that the board members of this organisation used to serve free gratis for years until the appointment of the new board by the Minister, the members of which now are paid a fee of €10,000 each? Can the Minister answer these questions?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

First, I will not take lectures from Deputy Rabbitte on the genesis of my party, particularly as I am not altogether sure what was his political genesis, given that he has been in so many political parties since he entered this House and beforehand. As for the Equality Authority, I validly listed out areas in which I believe savings can be effected because we are now in a different situation. When I was dealing with the Estimates a number of months ago, I made the point I was trying to make in my earlier response. As I stated during my last Question Time, I told my officials that my number one priority in my Department was tackling crime. This is the reason that, for example, Operation Anvil's budget has been increased by €1 million from €20 million to €21 million, as well as an increase of 20% in CAB's budget——

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

That is the reason the Minister cut the authority's budget by 42%?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

——and I am keeping Garda numbers on the street. I wished to concentrate on the issue of policing and tackling crime.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

The Minister knows this is entirely disingenuous.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

I stated that, unfortunately, all the other agencies that comprise the soft part of my Department were obliged to take a significant cut right across the Department.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

Did everyone take a cut of 42%?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

Yes. I made the point to the Equality Authority people——

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

The rest of the agencies experienced cuts of 2%, 4% and 6%.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

——when they came into my office recently——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister, without interruption

Deputy Dermot Ahern

——that, to a certain extent, the fact that the Department only deducted 1% from the National Disability Authority has been hung around my neck. I made this point strongly to the members of the authority's board and the chief executive when I met them last week. I told them the Government had made a specific decision when preparing the Estimates and the budget that people with disabilities would be those least affected by cuts. This is the reason there is such a small cut in respect of that authority.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Go raibh maith agat a Aire. Ceist Uimh. 3.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

What about the board members?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

However, when one examines this expenditure, it is valid to ask a question on amounts such as €184,000 on publications——

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

When did the board members get——

Deputy Dermot Ahern

——€220,000 on public relations——

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

The Minister is filibustering.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

——€184,000 on publications——

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

The Minister is filibustering. He is spoofing.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

——and €100,000 on consultants. No, I am not filibustering.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

What is the answer to the two questions?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

I must say the Deputy is adding to the nasty——

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

The Minister is filibustering.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister must conclude his reply.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

——leak that came from people.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

Nasty?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

It reflects more on those who made such a nasty leak against a good public servant.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

Is that all the Minister has to say?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

It is a disgrace. As usual, the Deputy comes into this House, as he did before many years ago——

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

The Minister is flimflamming. He is filibustering.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Ceist Uimh. 3, in ainm an Teachta Charles Flanagan.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

——when he tried to denigrate the church.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

He is filibustering——

Deputy Dermot Ahern

He is at it again and I am not filibustering. I have given the Deputy all the facts.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

——and he did not answer any of the questions.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

I have given all the facts to the Deputy.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputies will resume their seats.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

What the Deputy did is a disgrace in respect of a good public servant. This leak was a despicable effort to try to blacken him and the Deputy is adding to it.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister will not disobey the Chair.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

I will not come into this House——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I will suspend——

Deputy Dermot Ahern

——and allow that man to denigrate someone who is not present to defend himself.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister will resume his seat.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

This is a disgrace and the Leas-Cheann Comhairle should be intervening.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister will——

Deputy Dermot Ahern

The Leas-Cheann Comhairle should be intervening to ask him to withdraw those remarks about a good public official.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister will resume his seat or leave the House.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

No, I will not.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

I did not denigrate anyone.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy also will——

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

However, the Minister did not answer the question.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Rabbitte will resume his seat.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

He did not answer it.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Rabbitte will resume his seat.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

This was a mean-minded act in which the Minister colluded. Moreover, the Minister did not answer any of the questions he was asked.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

I did.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

This is the final——

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

His response was to filibuster and to wrap the Secretary General around him.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

If there is continued disorder, I will suspend the House. This is the final session before Christmas and I would have hoped for a civil atmosphere in the House. I deeply regret the statement by the Minister that he would refuse to obey the Chair. All Deputies, on whatever side of the House, will obey the Chair. We will continue in an orderly fashion and if there is any further disorder, I will suspend the House forthwith. Question No. 3 is called.

Prison Accommodation.

Charles Flanagan

Question:

3 Deputy Charles Flanagan asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the prisoner capacity of each prison; the number of prisoners held in each prison; his views on overcrowding in prisons; and the action he will take in the immediate, medium and long term to address the matter of prison overcrowding. [47435/08]

Deputy Dermot Ahern

It is a disgrace that the Deputy——

Deputy Charles Flanagan

The Minister is not answering the question.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister will either obey the Chair or I will suspend the House.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

I think what happened here today is a disgrace. The information requested by the Deputy——

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

The Minister is the one who is a disgrace.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

It is a disgrace that Deputy Rabbitte would denigrate a good public servant.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

He is the one who is a disgrace, trying to wrap the Secretary General around himself.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Very well.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

Deputy Rabbitte is at it again.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

Do not disgrace me.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

Deputy Rabbitte is a disgrace.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

The Minister, Deputy Ahern, is a petty little man.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

I am not.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Very well.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

The Minister, Deputy Ahern, is a petty little man.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

Deputy Rabbitte is a man——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I will not——

Deputy Dermot Ahern

——who tried to denigrate a good public servant who is not able to defend himself in this House.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

——tolerate further disorder.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

Why did the Minister not answer? He would not answer the question.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

Deputy Rabbitte cannot denigrate. He is not here to defend himself.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

He tries to give it a go about a decent public servant and he comes in here wrapping the Secretary General around himself.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

Deputy Rabbitte is a disgrace.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The House is adjourned for ten minutes.

Sitting suspended at 3.50 p.m. and resumed at 4 p.m.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

The information requested by the Deputy is set out in the table. It is the case that there has been a consistent increase in the total prisoner population over recent years. This situation is particularly apparent over the past 12 months, during which time the total number in custody has increased by approximately 280. There are a number of reasons for this increase. With the extra resources provided by this Government, the Garda Síochána has been increasingly successful in prosecuting criminals and additional court sittings have resulted in higher committal rates.

The number in custody has risen by 8% and the total number of persons in custody and on temporary release has increased by 15.5%. The provision of an additional 1,300 prison places in recent years has largely addressed the issue of overcrowding, which had been a chronic problem for the prison system. It is my view that the continuation of the current capital programme is necessary if overcrowding is not to become a problem in the future.

It has to be acknowledged that the Irish Prison Service must accept all prisoners committed by the courts. Figures from the past 12 years reveal that the numbers in custody have increased by 65% and the numbers on temporary release have decreased by 34%. More recently the number of committals to our prisons in 2007 was 9,711, of which 6,455 were under sentence. The average daily prison population in custody in 2007 was 3,321.

It is quite clear that we are currently operating in excess of our bed capacity in some of our prisons. In the short to medium term this issue will be addressed by the provision of 400 prison places by summer 2009 in a new remand block due to be completed in early 2009 in Castlerea Prison which will accommodate approximately 100 prisoners, a new block in Portlaoise Prison due to open in the coming months which will accommodate approximately 150 prisoners and a new block in Wheatfield Prison accommodating 150 prisoners which is due to be completed in summer 2009. Most recently, over 30 additional places have been made available at the open centre at Shelton Abbey and a further 40 places have been developed at the open centre at Loughan House. It should also be borne in mind that our prisons have contingency plans in place whereby they can accommodate numbers above their ideal working capacities. These new developments will serve the prison service until the opening of the new prison complex at Thornton Hall. This prison is designed to accommodate 1,408 prisoners based on single cell occupancy in a range of prison facilities. For operational flexibility reasons, the design has the capacity to accommodate up to 2,200 prisoners in a multiple occupancy arrangement. This flexibility will future proof the development in capacity terms for the next 50 years.

The Irish Prison Service capital programme will also ensure the elimination of the unacceptable practice of slopping out and will effectively complete the modernisation of the prison estate. The prison estate will be comparable to best international practice in terms of accommodation, facilities and services for the rehabilitation and reintegration of prisoners into society. The Government and the Irish Prison Service have anticipated the demand for prison spaces and have acted accordingly.

Prison Capacity and Population as at 15 December 2008.

Institution	Bed Capacity	Number in Custody
Arbour Hill	148	149
Castlerea Prison	228	237
Cloverhill Prison	431	420
Cork Prison	272	284
Limerick Prison (male)	275	284
Limerick Prison (female)	20	19
Loughan House	130	119
Midlands Prison	469	478
Mountjoy Prison	540	628
Dochas Centre	85	108
Portlaoise Prison	210	105
Shelton Abbey	90	87
St. Patrick’s Institution	216	223
Training Unit	107	106
Wheatfield Prison	390	406

Deputy Charles Flanagan

It is regrettable the Minister refuses to accept the fact that the prison system is undergoing a crisis. The criminal justice system is being undermined by dint of the hundreds of offenders who are committed to prison by the courts to serve lengthy sentences only to be released after a short period. How does the Minister propose to deal with this issue?

Does he accept the findings of a recent interim report of the Inspector of Prisons and Places of Detention which found that prisoners were sleeping in the reception area of Mountjoy Prison, on dirty and soiled mattresses and on cell floors, in some cases without mattresses? The inspector pointed out that violence among prisoners was beginning to reflect gang related conflicts outside of prison and, in an understatement, noted that overcrowding has become excessive. However, the Minister claims there is no problem.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

I do not claim there is no problem. I told the Deputy that we are at capacity and that we have developed 1,300 new places in the past ten years in order to address the issue. That compares favourably with Fine Gael's record in Government. When Nora Owen was Minister for Justice, she cancelled the prison building programme. We restarted the programme in 1997 and have since then developed 1,300 new places. We will open a further 400 places between now and the summer. That is the short-term solution, whereas the answer in the long term will be Thornton prison.

The figure for temporary release is in the region of 10% to 11%, which compares favourably with the figures for 1994 at 22.2%, 1995 at 20%, 1996 at 17.9%, and 1997 at 19.2%. I accept that problems exist in Mountjoy and the Dochas Centre. We are opening 400 new places in Castlerea, Portlaoise and Wheatfield prisons. I recently visited Cloverhill and Wheatfield prisons and found the conditions there to greatly exceed a comparable prison that I visited in Italy. When we finish this programme in mid-summer, we will have renewed 40% of the prison estate, thus ensuring our facilities are among the best in the world.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

On the next occasion this House meets, we will be a week short of spring. At the end of 2008, I ask the Minister to set out precisely the programme for Thornton Hall. I have heard about it for years but I want to know the factual position. Can he chart the progress made on the project or tell us when building will commence?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

The aim for Thornton Hall was to sign the contract in early 2009 but in light the current economic difficulties, the current bidder and I anticipate all the other bidders are experiencing problems with the credit crunch. I understand that negotiations are ongoing and efforts will be resumed in the new year to obtain the finance required at a reasonable rate. We want the project to proceed. As it is a public private partnership, the taxpayer will not pay a cent until the project is completed and ready for takeover. It is a 25 year project but in the short term we are putting in place 400 additional places between now and the summer.

Garda Operations.

Charles Flanagan

Question:

4 Deputy Charles Flanagan asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of bench warrants that remain outstanding; his views on the execution of bench warrants; and the action he proposes to take to address deficiencies in the bench warrant system. [47436/08]

Deputy Dermot Ahern

Given the enormous transaction level in the District Court, it is inevitable that at any given time a significant number of bench warrants will be awaiting execution. It should be borne in mind that the vast majority of the outstanding bench warrants relate to unpaid fines for minor infractions of the law rather than convictions arising from violent crime. In addition, the Garda Síochána gives priority to the execution of warrants against those it believes to be involved in serious crime.

I have discussed this matter with the Garda Commissioner and he has assured me that the Garda authorities are committed to strengthening the warrant enforcement process. He has discussed the execution of warrants with each regional assistant commissioner and a range of measures aimed at reducing the number of warrants on hand have been identified and are being implemented. These measures include the assignment of additional gardaí to this function and the appointment of inspectors with responsibility for execution of outstanding warrants. The position is being closely monitored by senior Garda management and consideration will also be given at an organisational level to further measures as necessary to address the situation.

I am informed by the Garda authorities that as a result of special measures taken in the Dublin metropolitan region, there has been an increase of 17% in the number of warrants executed between January and August this year compared to the same period last year. I am further informed that 36,972 bench warrants are recorded and remain to be enforced.

I intend to seek Government approval for a fines Bill which will provide for the payment of fines by instalment and an improved means of assessing the capacity of a person to pay a fine. As many warrants relate to financial penalties, these proposals should result in a smaller number of warrants being issued and thereby reduce pressure on the system. I am also considering other legislative measures in this area. The warrant system will continue to be monitored, particularly with a view to making whatever changes may be necessary to improve its operation.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

This a most serious problem and it is getting worse. The Minister did not refer to the August initiative, which I understand was specifically designed to deal with the backlog of warrants. He stated that 36,970 bench warrants are currently outstanding. Given that the figure for May was 33,000, the August initiative was a complete failure.

Does he accept that a number of serious criminals continue to engage in their activities even while bench warrants have been issued for them? Where is the system failing and why is the matter not being addressed adequately?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

During the August blitz carried out by the Garda in the Dublin metropolitan region, 808 bench warrants, 549 penal warrants and 55 distress warrants were executed. To a certain extent we are the victims of our own success in that the Garda has been more successful in bringing prosecutions and the courts more efficient in dealing with their business. As the Deputy will know from his practice, many warrants are not executable for various reasons. People who are subject to bench warrants often try to evade their issuance. Clearly that entails much Garda time.

As such a high proportion of the approximately 36,000 bench warrants relate to financial penalties, we will introduce the new fines Bill in the early new year and a pilot project is already in place which has proved very successful in getting an outside agency to deal with the collection of fines. All of those aspects will dramatically reduce the level of bench warrants.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

We cannot wait for the Minister's new fines legislation, which may not be enacted by this time next year. How can the Minister stand over the unedifying spectacle in Limerick, where a well-known leading gang member has turned himself into the Garda station for his own protection although a bench warrant has not been executed. How can the Minister stand over the case of another famous and tragic murder, that of Donna Cleary, where the person responsible had two bench warrants? Surely it is possible to distinguish between the criminal on the one hand and the civil on the other. Can the Minister not do so?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

It is not a matter for me personally to execute these warrants. If we were to listen to the Deputy and the Fine Gael promises, there would be fewer gardaí on the street with fewer resources.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

Deal with the warrants.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

As I stated in my original reply, the Garda prioritises bench warrants relating to the arrest of people for serious and general crime. As a result of resource constrictions, they do not tend to concentrate on financial warrants, or distress warrants, as can be seen from the August figures. Some 55 in that case were distress warrants relating to the collection of goods and chattels. The vast majority of the bench warrants concentrated on deal with serious crime.

Sex Offender Treatment Programme.

Charles Flanagan

Question:

5 Deputy Charles Flanagan asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of sex offenders serving prison sentences; the number of prisoners in each prison who are participating in rehabilitation programmes; and the number of places available for sex offenders on rehabilitation programmes in prison. [47437/08]

Deputy Dermot Ahern

On 15 December 2008, there were 302 persons in custody serving sentences for sexual offences. Three main forms of direct therapeutic intervention for sex offenders currently operate within the Irish prison system. The group programmes are an intensive version, which have been in operation since 1994 and are currently under review. Individual counselling is available from the Irish Prison Service's psychology service and from the Probation Service, and one-to-one interventions are provided by visiting psychiatrists who provide support to prisoners.

The intensive programme has catered for eight offenders at a time, taking 11 months to complete. Although delivered in Arbour Hill Prison, it has been available to sex offenders in other prisons. A total of 136 sex offenders have completed the sex offender programme to date since 1994, with the most recent group completing the programme in July 2008. There have been difficulties in finding sufficient suitable and properly motivated prisoners to participate in this programme.

One-to-one counselling is a critical method of working with offenders on their sexual offending. In response to such counselling, many offenders who initially might deny responsibility for their crime or deny any need for treatment are motivated towards some process of change. As of 16 December this year, 76 sex offenders have engaged in one-to-one counselling and other interventions with the psychology service. The Probation Service also engages with prisoners on a one-to-one basis.

The question of rehabilitation for sex offenders in custody is not straightforward. Supports within the community on release can be equally vital to ensuring that sex offenders do not re-offend.

As I mentioned, the number of suitably motivated offenders applying for participation on the group programme has declined significantly in recent years and this has been a matter of increasing concern. Therefore, in an attempt to engage more sex offenders in appropriate interventions, the Irish Prison Service has initiated a review, and a programme incorporating new enhanced models will be introduced in January 2009. This will allow for interventions with a significantly greater number of offenders.

As a further measure, today I wish to inform the House of a major new process to develop further national policies for the management of sex offenders. I have a particular interest in electronic monitoring and expect to receive a report from my Department in the near future on the general question of electronic monitoring and what procurement options are open to us.

I have also asked my officials to examine the introduction of a statutory scheme of GPS electronic monitoring of sex offenders during the first six months of their release. If such monitoring is technically and economically viable, and if constitutional considerations do not prevent a statutory scheme, I would envisage it could operate on the basis of an application to a court immediately prior to release of an offender. This GPS monitoring would allow any disturbing pattern to be identified at an early stage and provide objective evidence of same in the case of any Garda application to court for a sex offender order.

This proposal will form part of a major report on the management of sex offenders which my Department will issue for public consultation after Christmas.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

I welcome the Minister's proposal in respect of the electronic monitoring and wish him well in that regard. I look forward to following progress in that area. Does the Minister accept that where treatment has been provided and a course has been undertaken, the results are such that there is a public safety issue? It is important that every effort is made to encourage prisoners to avail of the treatment. Using the excuse that the matter is under review, as the Minister has said, has been ongoing for too long. It is really avoiding the issue.

Did I hear the Minister correctly when he stated the sex offender management policy will be published in January?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

Yes.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

Will that be subjected to a debate here?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

I will put it out for public consultation. The sex offender programme has been there since 1994 and 106 offenders, an average of eight per year, have participated in it.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

It is a very low uptake.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

I give credit to the Irish Prison Service for looking at a different model. It is anticipated that under the new model, which will come into place irrespective of the tagging issue in January 2009, there will be three different types of treatment and approximately 64 prisoners per year will be dealt with. That is a much better outturn for the significant expenditure in this area.

It behoves us all in the House to put in place the latest available treatment and monitoring. I was in Oslo recently and took time to speak to the country's justice minister about what they are doing with a similar population. They are initiating tagging of offenders, although it must be said they are not sex offenders. I am considering the issue of tagging generally and if it is feasible and there are resources, we will put out a tender in the new year.