Adjournment Debate.

Brewery Closure.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy John McGuinness, for attending this important debate. As a Kilkenny man, I am glad the Minister of State will be able to give me the necessary information in the important context of saving as many jobs as possible in the Diageo review process that is taking place at present to ascertain the potential of retaining the production potential at Smithwick's brewery in Kilkenny.

As the Minister of State is aware, this facility has existed for almost 300 years. There are currently 93 jobs at the facility and 153 contractors make a large part of their living from it. It makes a contribution to the local economy of between €10 million and €15 million. It could be a site with considerable development potential if the economic situation recovered to the level of some years ago. However, Diageo has decided to review the value of those sites and their development potential.

Some time ago, the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Mary Coughlan, welcomed the announcement of the new site at Leixlip. There is now a unique opportunity to retain the facility in Kilkenny. The Leixlip idea was a good one according to the Minister, Deputy Coughlan. She was prepared to invest a substantial amount of money in assisting Diageo to build a new green field facility at grounds owned by Lord Iveagh. The facilities in Dundalk and Kilkenny were to be subsumed into that facility along with a part of St James's Gate.

The current economic climate has brought about a rethink in Diageo concerning the value of those sites, especially in Kilkenny and Dundalk, but also the value of the site in Leixlip and the amount the company would be expected to pay for that site. This is an opportunity to revisit the issue. I welcome that Diageo is prepared to revisit the matter. I am aware that meetings have taken place between senior people in Diageo and workers to establish what can be done to reduce costs, to save as many jobs as possible and to allow the facility in Kilkenny to operate for longer than originally planned.

I need not remind the Minister of State of the level of unemployment and job losses in Kilkenny. There is a very serious situation with some 10,144 people in Carlow-Kilkenny unemployed. It is critical that we retain as many manufacturing jobs as possible. There have been several blows in recent times, including job losses at NN Euroball and the announcement of 250 job losses at Glanbia. In addition to the contractor jobs, these 93 well paid jobs are important to the economic development of the city. The site is strategically placed adjacent to the central business district of Kilkenny city. I do not expect that the company will be able to replace the good employment which has been provided on the site for a considerable period of time. There is no planned retail activity or any master plan to replace lost jobs in the area.

However, there is an opportunity in this situation. I hope the Department will use its good offices in the context of the financial outlay that it was prepared to make to Diageo, through Enterprise Ireland, in the past year to consolidate the company's operations in Leixlip. I also hope the Department will now be prepared to put the resources allocated at that time into Kilkenny to maintain jobs, rather that starting afresh at a green field site that may or may not come to profitable fruition in four or five year's time.

Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Deputy John McGuinness)

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter and I am pleased to be able to take it. I sympathise will all those who have lost jobs throughout the country and we must make an extra special effort to find replacement jobs and training where necessary. Deputy Hogan referred to the 10,400 unemployed people in the region and I sympathise with those people. We will work with them to improve matters. However, we must also acknowledge the positive developments in the economy, such as the creation of 100 jobs, which I announced last week, at the Kilkenny company taxback.com.

The Smithwicks brewery in Kilkenny was last discussed in the House on 15 May 2008. Diageo's operations in Ireland have been under review for some time. On 9 May the company outlined its decision for the future of its plants at Dublin, Dundalk, Waterford and Kilkenny. While the company indicated there would be job losses, it said it would invest €650 million in the Guinness brewery at St. James's Gate. A new brewery was due to be built on a suitable site close to Dublin and its location was to be Leixlip, County Kildare. It would use leading edge brewing technologies to deliver the best international standards in scale, efficiency, quality and environmental performance. On completion in 2013, it was to be the company's biggest brewery and the largest in Ireland. The opening of the new brewery would be subject to planning permission from Kildare County Council. When the new brewery was commissioned, all production from the existing brewery in Kilkenny was to be transferred, resulting in the closure of the Kilkenny facility, as the Deputy stated.

As we are now aware, the current economic climate is considerably different from when Diageo announced its plan last May. The company recently announced that it was putting its plans for a new brewery on hold. The Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Coughlan, has been and continues to be very active in communicating with Diageo as the situation unfolds. The Tánaiste was recently in London where she met Mr. Paul Walsh, chief executive of Diageo. While I am not in a position to say what is likely to happen at this stage with the Smithwicks brewery in Kilkenny in light of the changed circumstances, every effort will be made to secure the best possible outcome for Ireland as far as brewing is concerned.

I am aware of the circumstances of the 93 employees and the 150 contract workers involved. Smithwicks will celebrate 300 years in Kilkenny in 2010. I have met with the three unions involved in the brewery. I have also met with the decision makers in Diageo and discussed the process now being undertaken by them. The unions concerned expressed the view that they have put forward a business plan for Smithwicks and the brewery site, which will be considered in the context of the evaluation. I assure the Deputy I take a keen interest in this matter and I realise he does also. I will keep in touch with those making the decisions in the coming months to establish what we can bring to bear on decision process and plans for the future development of the site. I realise we have previously disagreed on this matter, but I am prepared to further examine it with the local authority and Diageo and to have a local debate as to the best use for the site.

Hospital Services.

Deputy Brian O’Shea

Both Waterford city and County Waterford require substantially more public continuing care beds for elderly patients. The decision to close St. Bridget's ward at St. Patrick's Hospital, Waterford with the loss of 19 beds beggars belief and is nothing short of a money saving exercise, justified on highly questionable health and safety grounds. There is an extensive waiting list for St. Patrick's Hospital. There are patients in short-term contract beds in private nursing homes or in the community who encounter major or insurmountable financial difficulties in terms of taking up or staying in long-term beds in private nursing homes while awaiting a public bed. This situation is worsened in the absence of the long awaited appropriate new funding mechanism.

There is a crisis situation in the community and yet the HSE has decided to eliminate 19 public beds from St. Patrick's Hospital. Patients in the hospital are to be transferred to other wards and the hospital is to cease taking admissions. The HSE says the closure is necessary for health and safety reasons but the rest of the hospital will remain open.

The HSE has also stated that there is no question of St. Patrick's Hospital being shut down entirely. The Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mary Harney, is on record as stating that if the HSE does not close St. Bridget's ward, then the Health Information and Quality Authority, HIQA, will do so. The Minister, Deputy Harney, is further quoted as stating that the new standards for the care of the elderly come into effect this summer and will be implemented by the HIQA. These assertions need to be fully substantiated. They are questioned by the excellent and dedicated staff of St. Patrick's Hospital. The HSE states that the provision of a new 50 bed unit is a priority. The Minister of State, Deputy McGuinness, should note that some 30% of the beds at St. Patrick's Hospital are occupied by patients from south Kilkenny. Opposition to the closure of St. Bridget's ward is widespread, not only in Waterford but among the broad community of south Kilkenny.

The Friends of St. Patrick's organisation has contributed substantially to the hospital for many years and will continue to do so. It is eminently reasonable to request if, as stated by Mr. Pat Healy, assistant national director of primary and continuing care, the new 50 bed unit for Waterford is the priority project with the HSE, why the project is not being fast-tracked and why the beds in St. Bridget's ward do not remain in use until such time as the new unit is up and running.

Officials of the HSE have stated that a total of 30 beds are to be acquired in the private sector in the Waterford community care area that will have the same clinical back-up as the patients in St. Patrick's. That is difficult to believe. There needs to be much more clarification on the health and safety issue and the HIQA standards which are being used as an excuse for closing down the more expensive St. Patrick's Hospital long-stay beds with their hospital support to be replaced by cheaper beds in the private sector. This is an exercise in privatising the health service.

It is totally unacceptable that the elderly patients of Waterford and South Kilkenny and their relatives are caused to suffer in this way and I am calling on the Minister to make sure that St. Brigid's ward remains open until such time as the alternative public long stay beds are available in the new 50 bed unit.

Deputy John McGuinness

I am taking this Adjournment matter on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mary Harney.

I thank Deputy O'Shea for raising this issue. It provides me with an opportunity to update the House on this matter and to outline the background to the situation and the action taken by the Health Service Executive, HSE. I also want to reassure the older people concerned, and their families, about the future.

Government policy on older people is to support people to live in dignity and independence in their own homes and communities for as long as possible. Where this is not feasible, the health service supports access to quality long-term residential care where this is appropriate and we continue to develop and improve health services in all regions of the country and to ensure quality and patient safety.

The HSE has operational responsibility for the delivery of health and social services, including those at facilities such as St Patrick's Hospital, Waterford. The executive is working on an action plan to prioritise a phased programme of refurbishment and replacement of existing public nursing homes, where necessary, to meet the proposed new national standards for residential care facilities for older people. Ongoing reviews are essential to ensuring that resources are properly channelled, and that the changing needs of older people are suitably addressed.

St. Brigid's ward is the last remaining ward on an upper floor of St. Patrick's Hospital. Concerns have been expressed about the ward in terms of health and safety and fire issues. The fire safety officer has highlighted the difficulty of evacuating high dependency patients from St. Brigid's ward in the event of an emergency. With that in mind, the HSE has decided that it is no longer viable to continue to accommodate patients in St Brigid's ward.

Patients accommodated in the ward will not be moved out of St. Patrick's Hospital but will continue to receive their ongoing care within the complex. As vacancies arise on the ground floor, in consultation with the patients and their families, patients will be relocated from St. Brigid's ward to other wards within the hospital. St Brigid's ward will no longer accept admissions.

The HSE has confirmed that it is taking steps to ensure that the closure of this ward will not result in a reduction in the number of beds available in Waterford City. The safety of the residents is our first concern. We owe them a duty of care. It is most important to consider what is in their best interests. Each hospital and local health office, the managers, clinicians and others working in the health services have a responsibility to ensure they strive to provide the best possible service to patients and other clients of our health services. The safety and well-being of older people is of critical concern. Quality care and patient safety comes first and all patients should receive the same high standard of quality-assured care.

It is a matter for the HSE to deliver services both nationally and locally within its budget and overall health policy priorities in line with the overall resources available to the executive. St. Patrick's Hospital will remain at the centre of public residential care for older people in Waterford City. The executive has a proposal for a new 50-bed community nursing home on the grounds of the hospital. It is proposed that the planned 50-bed nursing home unit will provide therapy, rehabilitation and medical care to older people who no longer need acute hospital care or who can no longer be maintained in their own homes.

The management of resources and service planning is now a matter for the HSE in the first instance but any new capital development such as the proposed community nursing unit at St. Patrick's Hospital will need to be considered in the context of the overall HSE capital plan for 2009 and beyond.

Patient safety is everyone's concern and I reassure the House that the decision to close St. Brigid's ward was taken with the primary focus on the care and welfare of each patient.

Public Transport.

Deputy Seán Barrett

An efficiency review of Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann was initiated in June 2008, arising out of concerns that the State bus companies were not using their fleets to best of their abilities. This was a narrow review. We should be examining public transport as distinct from buses. In Dublin we are fortunate to have Luas, DART and bus services but none operates in tandem with the other. Until we start to use a bus, and Luas or DART for parts of a journey we will not encourage more people out of cars. The most recent announcement that Dublin Bus is cutting back its service is horrific. In one breath we ask people to cooperate in reducing CO2 emissions so that Ireland can meet its targets — I chair an Oireachtas committee which examines this issue — and in the next breath we cut the bus services. Transport will be the biggest contributor to increased CO2 emissions. We will have to pay penalties for failure to meet the targets we have agreed at EU level.

We must decide whether we want a proper public transport system. If Dublin Bus is not in a position to provide that service we should bite the bullet and offer routes to the private sector to replace those Dublin Bus can no longer support.

The Acting Chairman, Deputy O'Connor, who comes from Tallaght, will appreciate how important a local transport network is. There is a strong suggestion that from 1 March the No. 111 bus from Loughlinstown to Dún Laoghaire will be taken off the route. The route was designed to bring people from the Dún Laoghaire DART station to their homes away from the DART line, as far as Loughlinstown. It also brings people to the DART service in the morning. If the link is taken away more people will drive.

The State and the taxpayer have funded an expensive DART system and a Luas network, running to Cherrywood but the bus company has decided to take away the bus that links these wonderful networks. How will people get to these other services? The common response is that Dublin Bus is in competition with the DART and the Luas. What a strange way to think. Dublin Bus should not compete with the DART and the Luas; they should support each other.

Loughlinstown is a developing area and it is anticipated that there will be a population of more than 30,000 people in Cherrywood with 18,000 jobs forecast. Residents there also need to get to and from hospitals and schools. There is a health centre which will be completely cut off. There are several schools in the area and a FÁS training centre but the bus company is removing a service. This causes one to despair, to say the least. Unfortunately, the Minister of State present is not responsible for this tragedy but maybe he will pass on a message to his colleague, the Minister for Transport, to the effect that he should immediately introduce legislation to reform bus licensing.

Where is the Dublin Transportation Authority? Why has that not been urgently put on a statutory basis? Instead of reducing the number of buses, let Dublin Bus have a more efficient timetable and not duplicate services on one route. Why do all the buses trundle through O'Connell Street, around Parnell Square and down the other side, blocking the whole city? Why can they not go to a certain point and have a free service circulating in the centre city at all times, which would take all the buses out of O'Connell St. and reduce the traffic and reduce CO2 emissions? Before Dublin Bus lets people go let us have a comprehensive review of the overall public transport system in the Dublin area, and my area of south Dublin, where we are fortunate to have a Luas, DART and bus service. We need to have joined up thinking, and we should not let management in these organisations regard each company as being in competition with the others. They are there to provide an efficient service that will get people to work in the morning and home in the evening, allow them to know what time their buses are arriving and connect with the DART when it is leaving.

I call on the Minister of State to urge his colleague to examine this matter before Dublin Bus destroys any joined up way of thinking, so that we are certain to use public transport, be it the bus, the train, the DART or the Luas.

Deputy John McGuinness

I thank Deputy Barrett for raising this matter on the Adjournment, and I assure him I will bring it to the attention of the Minister.

The Government's recently published smarter travel action plan sets ambitious targets for us all. It states that by 2020 we will move over 500,000 potential car-based commuters to other more sustainable forms of transport; slash CO2 emissions by at least 4 million tonnes; ensure that electric vehicles account for 10% of all vehicles on our roads; ensure more than 150,000 people travel to work by bike; create regional e-working centres to help cut commuting times; create an all-island car sharing website; invest in new, safer cycling and walking routes, and invest in more park and ride facilities on the outskirts of our major cities

We cannot afford not to meet these targets. Our current transport trends are unsustainable. We must free ourselves from the current conviction that the private car must be the primary travel mode. If we do that, enormous benefits will accrue, not only to ourselves as individuals, but to society. These benefits will last a lifetime.

Smarter travel seeks to deliver a sea change in the way we think about and make policy on transport matters. It considers all sectors of the transport area including personal travel by car, bus rail and air. As a nation, we have become dependent on the private car to meet our transport and travel needs. As a result, our urban roads are becoming increasingly choked by cars. If trends continue, average speeds in urban areas in morning peak hour in Dublin will have dropped from 13 km per hour to 8 km per hour by 2016. We cannot allow that to happen, which is why this action plan is so important.

There are obvious alternatives to the car. Bus services are under-utilised in this country, despite the fact that there has never been a greater demand for stress-free travel alternatives. Bus services should be in huge demand, but bus passenger numbers are falling dramatically. The Government is determined to grow bus passenger numbers so that more people will opt to leave their cars at home.

The Government has made record funding available to CIE for 2009 — over €313 million — in a year when Exchequer funding has never been more scarce. However, Dublin Bus saw an alarming fall in its passenger numbers last year and a rise in its debt. If CIE continues with business as usual and does not reform to attract more customers, it is projected that it will deliver debts this year in excess of €90 million. We cannot let that happen.

In order to balance its books, Dublin Bus is examining how it can reduce costs and implement the cost saving, customer focused recommendations set out in a recent Deloitte report published by the Minister for Transport. This has the potential to help Dublin Bus cut costs, while at the same time growing passenger numbers and improving its service to customers. We are determined to stop the dramatic slide in bus passenger numbers and we can do this through a customer focused reform programme in Dublin Bus.

In other areas of public transport, the Government has invested heavily in excellent commuter rail and Luas light rail services. The Government will continue to provide top quality public transport alternatives to the public over the coming years under Transport 21. Smarter, sustainable travel will deliver benefits in the areas of health, environment, economic competitiveness, energy security and quality of life. Each of these benefits will be will be realised, and they will be experienced in south Dublin as clearly as they will be throughout the rest of the country.

Social Welfare Benefits.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I thank the Minister of State for coming into the House to reply to these Adjournment debates. However, it is the duty of the relevant line Minister or Minister of State to come before the House to answer the questions that are pertinent to their Departments. The Minister of State before us today should not be asked to double up for people who are absent. It is regarded as an insult to the House; not by him, but by those who are absent.

This Adjournment matter relates to the decision by the Minister for Social and Family Affairs to disqualify part-time firefighters from an entitlement to jobseeker's allowance on the basis that they must be available for work outside their immediate vicinity, with the obvious hardship consequences arising from commitments already entered into in better times.

In view of the fact that part-time firefighters were paid by local authorities, a decision was made several years ago that they would qualify for social welfare benefit or assistance if they needed it during the course of a particular year. The part-time service was not sufficient to maintain a reasonable income. The decision was taken in 1996 to establish the practice whereby they would qualify for the payment within certain specified limits. The standards were laid down, but it appears that the current Minister has arbitrarily changed this in line with other cuts. Unfortunately, part-time firefighters have already entered into commitments such as mortgages and expenditure last year.

There will now be a serious diminution in the quality and the availability of firefighters working on a part-time basis. They will be forced to seek jobs outside of their immediate area. Incidentally, notwithstanding the good news given by the Minister of State a short while ago, there is much bad news out there on the jobs front at the moment. Many people are losing their jobs, and how does the Minister expect that these people have a better chance than anyone else to seek jobs in that very competitive market? I do not think it is possible. I do not expect the Minister of State to comment on this, other than to give me the precooked version that has come from the Department of Social and Family Affairs.

It is appalling that this is occurring at a time when local authorities are facing cutbacks at every level, such as the 80 people who were let go by Kildare County Council in the past couple of weeks. The fire service is a very important service on which the community depends 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Any interference with it can only result in an inferior quality of service. It can result in loss of life. We all know the consequences of this. Every Member has experience of the part-time firefighters being first on the scene, and in many cases giving their lives. It is a serious issue, and I ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs to review this situation and restore the status quo.

The part-time fire service depends on the availability of part-time firemen and women. In order for that service to succeed, these people need to be working in their immediate area. When there has been a succession of job losses in any particular area, there are obviously problems created. We know that as well from the Department of Social and Family Affairs. To attempt to force them to seek employment outside their area, ensuring that they cannot provide a service to the fire department in their local area, is absolutely counter-productive. Will the Minister of State please convey to the absent Minister our concerns and disappointment, and ask her to review the situation?

Deputy John McGuinness

I will pass on Deputy Durkan's views to the line Minister. I remind him that it is great to be asked to serve at all.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

We know.

Deputy John McGuinness

I concur with his views on the fire service and those who participate in it. Decisions on entitlement to any social welfare scheme are made by statutorily appointed deciding officers who are independent in the exercise of this function.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

No.

Deputy John McGuinness

Social welfare legislation provides that if a person is to be entitled to jobseeker's payment, he or she must satisfy the conditions of being available for and genuinely seeking work. Anyone who fails to satisfy these conditions on an ongoing basis is not entitled to jobseeker's payment. Unlike other jobseekers, who must sign off the live register on any day on which they find work, part-time firefighters are paid jobseeker's payment in respect of days on which they are engaged in firefighting or training. However, they are required to satisfy the statutory conditions for the receipt of jobseeker's payment. They must continue to be available for and to be genuinely seeking work. In this respect, deciding officers do not treat them differently from any other jobseeker.

In applying the legislation, deciding officers have regard to the availability of job vacancies in the locality, the age and educational qualifications of the person making the claim and his or her family circumstances. The legislation does not impose any restriction or limitation on the right of a person to engage in the employment of his or her choice. If a person is seeking work in his or her usual form of employment and there is a reasonable prospect of securing work of that nature, he or she will normally satisfy the conditions for receipt of payment. If no work is available locally, however, the jobseeker must seek employment in the surrounding areas. It may be necessary for him or her to extend his or her availability to different categories of employment rather than confine his or her availability to a particular type of work. After a period of unemployment, a person must be prepared to accept any employment for which he or she is qualified.

It is a principle of the availability for work condition that a person's unemployment must be involuntary. Furthermore, a person must not limit his or her opportunities for work by only seeking employment within a restricted distance of a fire station in which he or she may be employed as a part-time firefighter. Such action would be seen as placing an unreasonable restriction on his or her ability to secure full-time employment. A person may be regarded as not being available for work if he or she imposes unreasonable restrictions on the nature of the employment, the hours of work, the rate of pay, the duration of the employment, the location of the employment or other conditions of employment which he or she is prepared to accept. A deciding officer may impose a disallowance in a case where a person refuses an offer of suitable employment or where he or she imposes unreasonable restrictions on the location of the employment he or she is prepared to accept. Any person who is dissatisfied with a decision given by a deciding officer may appeal the decision to the independent social welfare appeals office. While the importance of retained firefighters is fully recognised, the introduction of special arrangements exempting them from the requirement to fulfil the statutory conditions for entitlement to jobseeker's payment would raise equity issues vis-à-vis other jobseekers. In applying the legislation, deciding officers do not treat part-time firefighters differently from any other person claiming jobseeker’s payment.

Dáil Éireann debate - Thursday, 12 Feb 2009