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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 12 Nov 2009

Vol. 694 No. 3

Priority Questions.

Pension Provisions.

Our time has been shortened. I advise Deputies that we will conclude at 4.45 p.m.

Denis Naughten

Question:

1 Deputy Denis Naughten asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the deficit in the FÁS pension fund; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [41134/09]

The valuation figures for the FÁS closed superannuation scheme, which solely covers former AnCo staff, as at 31 December 2008 are the following; the market value of pension fund assets is €328 million; and the present value of pension liabilities is €631 million, which leaves a deficit in the FÁS pension fund of €303 million.

The valuation has been prepared by a qualified independent actuary under accounting standard FRS 17. This standard was issued by the Accounting Standards Board in November 2000. The standard deals with the treatment of pensions and other retirement benefits in company accounts, and its principal focus is to make reported accounts for pensions more transparent to ensure greater consistency between entities in the way pension costs are disclosed. It effectively provides a snapshot of assets at current value and the present value of liabilities into the future based on actuarial assumptions such as annuity rates, inflation, mortality rates, etc.

The current deficit in the fund reflects the collapse in equity values over 2008 and the early part of 2009, which has led to a significant fall in the total market value of pension scheme assets. Whereas the present value of funded pension liabilities has also dropped over the same period, it has done so to a lesser extent. The asset figures have improved in the interim but remain subject to market fluctuations.

In April 2008, following consideration by the Government of a proposal that the assets of the funds and the liabilities of a number of State pension schemes be taken over by the State, the Government decided in principle to authorise the Department of Finance to enter into discussion with the trustees and administrators of the respective pension funds with a view to winding up the funds. It has also decided to have the NPRF take over the assets of the pension funds and have the liabilities of the schemes taken over by the State. Once the transfer of the assets was effected, the schemes would be operated on a pay-as-you-go basis.

The pension funds in question included several non-commercial State body schemes under the aegis of my Department, including FÁS, SFADCO, IDA and the National Goods Council. The FÁS closed superannuation scheme provides benefits for pensionable staff of FÁS who were former AnCo staff.

Following the consultation with the trustees and administrators of the schemes concerned, legislation was prepared in order to enable the transfer of the assets and liabilities of the pension funds. The necessary powers were included in the Financial Measures (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009. A transfer order must be made under the Act to give effect to the transfer of each fund.

In preparation for the transfer of assets from the FÁS superannuation fund to the National Pensions Reserve Fund, the superannuation scheme, which was set up under SI 515 of 1998, has recently been amended by SI 414 of 2009. Provisions in respect of the closed spouses' and children's contributory pension scheme are set out in SI 420 of 2009.

I thank the Tánaiste for her response. Many members of the public would be amazed to see a deficit of €303 million in the FÁS pension fund at a time when its chief executive got a pension benefit of €1.4 million in very questionable circumstances. What is the current deficit of the FÁS pension fund?

The Tánaiste also mentioned the Financial Measures (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009, which transfers the assets from the various semi-State agencies to the NPRF. What is the total deficit in what is being transferred from those funds to the NPRF, and how will that deficit be made up?

It is important to reiterate that this scheme only refers to former AnCo staff and not to the person referred to by the Deputy. The deficit in the FÁS pension fund is €303 million and that is made up of a market value of fund assets of €328 million and liabilities of €631 million.

We are all aware of difficulties in pension funds and it was on such a basis that the Department of Finance was asked to facilitate the transfer of pension funds of non-commercial State bodies to be administered by the National Pensions Reserve Fund. It would be the fund's responsibility to administer and work through the pension's deficit and the needs of that pension fund.

Legislation was introduced to facilitate that and a transfer order was prepared. I recall signing an SI in regard to the closure of the spouses' and children's contributory pension scheme. It is important to say that new schemes are on a pay-as-you-go basis, which is similar to those involving a number of other non-commercial semi-State bodies.

Is it correct to say that we are looking at approximately €1.3 billion of a deficit with these pension funds being transferred to the NPRF at the end of 2008 anyway? Will the Tánaiste give an indication of the total exposure of the taxpayer as of now, as the taxpayer will have to foot the bill for the pension fund deficits and liabilities? It will be galling for many members of the public to come up with an additional €1.3 billion to patch up these particular funds in organisations where the chief executives and other senior members have received large golden handshakes under questionable circumstances in the past.

I appreciate that the Deputy is trying to introduce an element that has nothing to do with the question but that is beside the point. We are discussing AnCo.

What is the overall liability?

More than 95% of the non-commercial semi-State pensions are now operating on a pay-as-you-go basis, which is very significant. It is appropriate to say that we had separate pension schemes and funds, as well as separate actuarial staff and fund managers looking after this. The Government decided that the best way to address those costs and centrally manage them was under the National Pensions Reserve Fund. That is the most appropriate way to deal with pension liabilities, although they will fluctuate depending on the needs of the fund.

I do not have the figure for the State liability of commercial non-State staff but I am sure we could get it through the Department of Finance.

Employment Levels.

Willie Penrose

Question:

2 Deputy Willie Penrose asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if her attention has been drawn to the findings of the FÁS quarterly commentary, published on 4 November 2009, which warned of an increase in the pattern of youth unemployment; the steps she will take to combat this trend; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [41139/09]

I note the publication of the latest FÁS quarterly labour market review for autumn 2009, published last Wednesday. It highlights the increase which has occurred in youth unemployment as evidenced by the latest quarterly national household survey, QNHS, and live register statistics.

According to the QNHS at the end of the second quarter the unemployment rate for the age group 20-24 years of age stood at 23%, an increase of 12.6% on 2008. The percentage and the number of people in this cohort has increased but there has been a fall in the participation rate by 2.4%. The recent October live register statistics show that 84,948 people under 25 are signing on, which is a decrease of 4,862 from September.

The report suggested that many people of these age groups have continued to stay in education, as a fall in labour force participation rates has occurred. Whereas the creation of new sustainable employment opportunities for individuals through attracting investment to Ireland and supporting our indigenous enterprise base is the best way to tackle unemployment, my Department through FÁS is also actively working to ensure increased accessibility to the range of services and supports for all individual jobseekers, including those who are under 25 years of age. We have, for example, almost doubled the national employment action plan referral capacity of the FÁS and local employment services to 147,000 places.

In addition, the number of activation training and work experience places provided through FÁS has doubled to more than 130,000. This is clearly a substantial increase on the 66,000 places which were available at the end of last year. At the end of September, 104,000 unemployed were participating or had completed FÁS training or employment programmes. Those under 25 years of age are accessing both the job search services and training and work experience programmes in significant numbers.

The main specific FÁS provision for early school leavers continues to be training at community training centres under the Youthreach programme. There are 2,300 places on the programme, which is directed at unemployed early school leavers between the ages of 15 and 20. The programme provides basic skills and work experience and gives early school leavers an opportunity to acquire certification and progress to further training or employment.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

Another initiative that strives to prepare the unemployed for future job opportunities is the work placement programme. This programme is aimed at providing 2,000 six-month work experience placements to young people, graduates and other unemployed people. The programme consists of two streams, each consisting of 1,000 places. The first stream is for graduates and the second stream is for all others, with 250 places ring-fenced for those under the age of 25. As uptake on the scheme has been slower than anticipated, we have just concluded a review of its operation. I intend to announce revised criteria for its application shortly. I can also confirm to the House that FÁS is developing a youth framework. The FÁS youth framework will succinctly draw together FÁS commitment to young people. The target group for the FÁS youth framework is young people, aged between 16 and 25 years. It will detail in a comprehensive way all programmes and initiatives available to this target group including access and progression options. Monitoring procedures and an evaluation process will form part of the framework to measure the effectiveness of services. A working group has been established and work is due to commence on the framework shortly.

I appeal to the Tánaiste not to write off our young people, who are seriously affected by having to bear the brunt of the downturn. There has been a 60% year-on-year increase in the number of graduates seeking employment or further training. It is clear from FÁS's commentary on today's quarterly returns that young men have been particularly affected by the downturn. Approximately 40% of those between the ages of 15 and 19 and 30% of those between the ages of 20 and 24 are unemployed. Figures released by third level institutions, including universities and institutes of technology, suggest that many young jobseekers are choosing to stay on in education. Does the Tánaiste agree that if they were not, there would be an even greater explosion or tsunami in the number of younger people who are unemployed? Why are we not focusing on this important issue? Why are real measures not being introduced to address this problem?

The Labour Party has suggested a number of measures over the past 12 months. We proposed the introduction of an early learning scheme, which would play an important role in keeping people in formal education and learning. We also advocated the "bridge the gap" graduate and apprenticeship scheme, which would give first-time jobseekers an opportunity to develop their skills and enhance their job prospects. I suggest that we should eliminate all waiting periods for back to education and back to work allowances. We can get rid of them. We explored the possibility of enhancing eligibility for community employment schemes with the Tánaiste's officials the other day — they are ready to do it. I propose that the cap on the number of post-leaving certificate courses should be lifted. We should get rid of every bureaucratic blockage that is identified. It is desperately important that we focus on flexibility, in the interests of addressing the most important issue of our time. We should massively expand the internship schemes by giving people an opportunity to acquire necessary and vital experience in Government agencies and semi-State bodies. Young unemployed Irish graduates should have more opportunities to work in the EU institutions. I ask the Tánaiste to tell the House whether any of these things will be done to give hope to our young people and send them a signal that they are not being forgotten.

None of us disagrees with the absolute necessity to ensure that young people are interfacing with the labour market, which is hugely important. That is why our investment and activation programmes have a specific focus on young people. The youth framework that has been developed following consultation with the Minister of State, Deputy Dara Calleary, is distinctly looking at the needs of vulnerable young people. Deputy Penrose knows from the recent OECD visit that we have a particular exposure in the construction and retail sectors, where there is a low skills base. That is where the target needs to be. According to our policy perspective, there should be investment in education and training. Training should not be organised on the basis of any old thing, but on the basis of convergence technology or the conversion of existing people.

I have to say we are not happy with how the graduate programme has worked out. We are distinctly unhappy with the graduate and the non-graduate programmes. They should have worked out much easier. I have reviewed them with the Minister of State, Deputy Calleary. It is our clear intention to change them. I believe there is huge potential to create what Deputy Penrose described as an "internship", which is more or less what it is, to allow people to garner experience. Those who are looking for jobs need to get experience. Such a scheme would provide a wealth of experience in the public and private sectors. There is a huge enthusiasm to allow that to happen. The Minister, Deputy Mary Hanafin, has done considerable work to that end. We are undertaking a structural examination of the new programmes that are available to us. I refer to pathways to progression and to new training initiatives that would be specifically targeted at young and vulnerable people. The House is aware that resources will have to be targeted carefully. The considered view of everyone, which has been supported by the OECD, is that people under the age of 25 are the most vulnerable.

I concur with the Tánaiste's views. I do not wish to be argumentative in this regard. She has been very fair. I suggest it is time to remove the obstacles, hurdles and impediments that prevent the implementation and application of the Tánaiste's policies. We need to expand the apprenticeship programme. She is right to suggest that many unskilled people suffer from forms of educational disadvantage, including literacy problems. They are important. I understand that the programme being implemented by Bord Bia is going very well. That is one of the areas that have done very well. There is a two-year waiting list for the services of the Free Legal Advice Centres, even though 800 young solicitors are unemployed. Why can something not be tried in that area to get rid of the backlog? If we recognise the caring sector as a real employer, we will give young people an opportunity to get experience and training, to contribute and to feel they are participating positively. All of those areas should be explored.

We have to wash away the cobwebs of old thinking in this area. We have to start thinking afresh. I am worried that we are too staid. A kind of institutionalisation of thought may be preventing us from going the extra yard to embrace new ideas and make a positive contribution. We need to cater for our young people as real people, rather than as statistics.

We agree with what the Deputy has said. It is on that basis that we will change the scheme. The Minister, Deputy Hanafin, has facilitated us in the context of volunteerism, for example. She has changed the rules so that one no longer has to be continually available for and genuinely seeking work, which is an issue raised by the voluntary sector. The Deputy was right in what he said about other sectors. We have had a number of representations from people in the caring sector and other sectors who would like to participate in the scheme, but are restricted because they have ten employees. We are examining how we can change those restrictions to allow these things to happen. It will not be perfect because some people will say it will cost them to go to work. Most people are anxious to go to work. It is by interfacing with the labour market that one can find out if there is a job available. We are cognisant of that. Very valuable work can be done. I hope we will take a national perspective on this and that we will not create other impediments as a consequence.

Live Register.

Denis Naughten

Question:

3 Deputy Denis Naughten asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the reason for the differential between the redundancy figures and the live register figures; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [41135/09]

The redundancy payment scheme, which is administered by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment on behalf of the Department of Social and Family Affairs, makes payments in respect of eligible employees who qualify for statutory redundancy entitlement. Redundancy payments are paid from the social insurance fund. Under the scheme, all eligible employees are entitled to a statutory redundancy lump sum payment on being made redundant. Generally, a redundancy situation arises when an employee's job no longer exists and he or she is not replaced. To qualify for redundancy, the employee must have at least two years, or 104 weeks, of continuous service; the employee must be in employment which is insurable under the Social Welfare Acts; full-time employees must be in employment which is insurable for all benefits under the Social Welfare Acts but this does not apply to part-time employees; the employee must be 16 years or older; and the employee must have been made redundant as a result of a genuine redundancy situation. The redundancy payment statistics compiled by my Department measure the number of people in employment with a minimum of two years of continuous service, who meet the other criteria I have mentioned in order to obtain redundancy entitlements. By definition, this excludes people in employment who do not qualify under the terms of the redundancy payments.

It should be noted that the live register is not designed to measure unemployment. It includes part-time, seasonal and casual workers who are entitled to unemployment benefit. At the end of October 2009, there were 412,400 people on the live register claiming unemployment benefits, some 7,440, or 1.8%, fewer than in September 2009. The live register is 161,700, or 64.5%, higher than it was this time last year. The year-on-year increase, measured from October 2008 to October 2009, is continuing to decline from a peak of 197,800 recorded in June 2009. The seasonally adjusted figure for October is 422,500, which is a monthly decrease of 3,000 from September. As the Deputy may know, the quarterly household survey that is collated and published by the Central Statistics Office measures employment and unemployment. According to the most recent survey, some 264,600 people were unemployed in the second quarter of 2009, which was an increase of 137,900, or 109%, on the corresponding period in the previous year. The Government continues to support jobs through the enterprise stabilisation and job subsidy schemes. It has doubled the number training and work experience places that are available to over 13,000 this year.

Is the Minister of State saying that the redundancy figures, the trend of which is far worse than the trend of the live register figures, indicate that more stable employment is being lost? That, in itself, is a very worrying trend. I would like to ask about those figures. Would a person who has been in a part-time role with a company for a considerable period of time, over the two-year threshold, be covered under the calculations for redundancy figures? Given that the Tánaiste has now reviewed the scheme of supports for businesses and has now admitted the focus was to narrow initially — it has proven the criticisms we had of the employment subsidy scheme in the first instance — is it not the case that we have now lost valuable time in supporting the type of business we need to support which is struggling at the moment? What are the current delays in processing the employers' refunds for redundancy payments? There is an appalling delay of seven or eight months for employers who are struggling to cope with their cash flows at present.

It is three to four months for individuals and seven to eight months for employers, which is a significant delay. While we are widening the eligibility for the employment subsidy scheme, we are doing so because of the experience we have had to date. It would have been foolish and very dangerous for the Government to put in place an employment subsidy scheme which from the outset was open to abuse or could be constructed in such a fashion that the wrong types of employers were drawing down the benefit to the exclusion of those.

The Government is putting jobs at risk for fear that the wrong types of employers might get it. It is good to know that.

It is a rather good practice in public policy——

Jobs are being lost in the meantime.

——to introduce a scheme that is minimalist to begin with and learns from the experience and the demand for such a scheme so that it can develop from there.

Does the Minister of State hope to save money?

I do not quite understand the issue with the redundancy figures. I can give the Deputy details of the redundancy claims lodged between 2002 and 2009. I am not sure whether the Deputy is interested in them from a statistical point of view. Clearly a person who was in part-time employment does not get redundancy. While I know what the Deputy is asking, he might want to reframe that question. Clearly part-time employees are able to make social welfare claims. I know we are not taking questions for the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, but I would have thought that was understood. The Deputy's question is framed on the difference between the live register and the unemployment——

We shall have a brief supplementary question from Deputy Naughten.

May I finish? The live register is a measure of unemployment and underemployment.

The Chair would be obliged if the Minister of State would also have regard to the Chair.

Does the Minister of State believe it is acceptable that employers need to wait for seven or eight months to get a refund? Many of them are struggling with cash flow difficulties. Regarding the issue of part-time and full-time employees, there is an anomaly regarding how the readings and calculations are done for redundancy and for the live register, which also adds to the discrepancy. Is it not the case that the real reason for the discrepancy is that people are either going into education or more likely emigrating from the country? That is why we are seeing redundancy figures increasing and live register figures reducing.

On the final question about resources, of course in an ideal world we would prefer if these payments could be done pretty well immediately. However, as the Deputy knows considerable pressures have been added to staff working in the redundancy section precisely because of the jump in the number of redundancies.

There are huge pressures on businesses also.

Of course there are huge pressures on businesses. We would hope to reduce the delays over a period. For the moment we have reassigned 26 additional full-time people into the redundancy payments area to process these payments more quickly. The level of redundancy claims does not bear much relationship to the level of unemployment. That is an important point. In 2002 there were 24,000; in 2003 there were 25,000. Skipping ahead to 2008 and 2009 the figures were 40,000 and 67,000. While it is reflective of the performance of the economy, it does not correlate exactly with the levels of unemployment.

The simplest way to explain the difference to the Deputy between the live register and unemployment is to state that the live register captures unemployment and underemployment at the same time.

County and City Enterprise Boards.

Damien English

Question:

4 Deputy Damien English asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment her views on reforming county and city enterprise boards in order that they can meet the needs of all small and medium-sized enterprises during the current economic climate; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [41200/09]

Our industrial policy is based on maintaining a positive business environment allied with specific targeted supports for enterprises through the enterprise development agencies. The positive business environment benefits all enterprises including all small and medium-sized enterprises referred to by the Deputy.

The supports through the enterprise development agencies are targeted at enterprises in manufacturing and internationally traded services in order to maximise export potential and foreign earnings. The availability of resources to support enterprises is limited and must therefore be targeted at those sectors that provide the best opportunity for growth. SMEs account for 99% of all enterprises in Ireland. While many of these are eligible for and receive assistance from development agencies such as Enterprise Ireland, FÁS, and the county and city enterprise boards, it would not be appropriate or financially feasible to grant aid all small and medium-sized enterprises in the country.

There are 35 county and city enterprise boards located throughout the country. The boards are the primary reference point for enterprise advice and support at local level for start-up and expanding businesses. In addition to providing financial support to local businesses the boards also provide a range of non-financial supports such as training, mentoring, information and advisory services as well as networking opportunities and enterprise promotion activities. In providing financial support the boards must give priority to manufacturing and internationally traded services, must always take account of potential deadweight and displacement, and must primarily focus on the micro-enterprise sector, which comprises businesses employing ten staff or fewer.

The overall priority for capital expenditure by the boards is on the development of sustainable growth-orientated micro-enterprises, which over time can develop into strong export entities and graduate to the Enterprise Ireland portfolio. This is a carefully balanced and structured approach to the provision of State support to indigenous industry. Eligible SMEs above the micro-enterprise level can be assisted by Enterprise Ireland where they match that agency's operating requirements.

The county and city enterprise boards have played a pivotal role in developing, sustaining and growing micro enterprise at a local level since their inception in 1993 and this sector will be crucial to Ireland's economic recovery through employment creation and the creation of new businesses. The majority of the boards are currently experiencing an increase in the volume of their activities from their current client base. With increasing numbers of people seeking advice on starting their own businesses, many boards are providing additional "start your business" courses and increased levels of mentoring for owner-managers who are experiencing trading difficulties. In addition the boards are rolling out a revised and more flexible range of financial supports for the micro-enterprise sector.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

I am confident that the work of the boards is appropriately focused on the micro-enterprise sector for the time being and that the funds available can be used in an effective and efficient manner by the targeting of this specific sector.

As the Deputy will be aware the recent report of the special group on public sector numbers and expenditure made certain recommendations about structural reform of the county and city enterprise boards specifically that all indigenous enterprise support and sector marketing functions should be consolidated into Enterprise Ireland. However, the desirability of supporting micro-enterprise was not challenged nor did the report make any recommendation on the current eligibility criteria which applies to assistance from the county and city enterprise boards.

A Government decision on these recommendations will be made in due course.

While I thank the Minister of State for the reply, it is not exactly what I wanted. I believe he missed the point of my question, which I have asked repeatedly in the past 18 months. What different instructions has he given to our enterprise development agencies and bodies to cater for the problems we have now? I accept the county and city enterprise boards have done wonderful work, but there is now a change of circumstances. We need to move to protect jobs and help many of these companies to survive. The county and city enterprise boards can only help a small number of companies. Enterprise Ireland deals with approximately 3,500 companies a year and I accept that over five years that could be 15,000 companies. However, many companies are not getting help. We had a good discussion about this at a committee meeting during the week. I believe everyone agrees a large number of companies do not get help. What is the Government prepared to do differently to help those who need help? I accept that an excellent job was done in the past, but at present businesses are closing and jobs are being lost because we do not have a job-sustaining strategy. Many businesses cannot get help from anybody. What is to be done for them?

I do not believe the Deputy can pick out the county and city enterprise boards as the only solution to address the issues in the current economic climate. We have many other proposals that have been highlighted in the previous replies to other Deputies' questions. We have the employment subsidy scheme which is being expanded and will, I am sure, show a marked improvement in the uptake. The county and city enterprise boards are very flexible as it is. They can respond to the existing needs.

No, they cannot.

For example, they provide considerably more mentoring and advice to start-up companies. They are engaging with a broader group of people than heretofore. The purpose of the county and city enterprise boards is to assist in start-ups to the stage of viability and after that they expand and can come under the scope of Enterprise Ireland if they exceed ten employees. In general the county and city enterprise boards have responded quite quickly to the difficulties. There has been a marked increase in the demand for the services of the county and city enterprise boards through mentoring, advice and seminars on start-ups and the grants available. Údarás na Gaeltachta, Leader and many other agencies are also equipped to give assistance and advice to small and medium-sized enterprises.

To clarify, I am not asking why county and city enterprise boards were set up. I was a member of my local enterprise board and am very much aware of the great work they do. What I am asking is that the Minister of State and his colleagues give consideration, before the budget, to the need to expand the remit of enterprise boards and other bodies in order to cater for the thousands of businesses which cannot, under the current guidelines, access help or which are falling between stools. Will the Minister of State seek to develop other means by which such companies can be supported and the jobs they provide be protected? The two existing employment support schemes are insufficient to meet the need that exists. We must have new ideas and new momentum in this area. I propose that we amend the remit of the enterprise boards to include job protection in all the various sectors.

We have introduced changes to the employment subsidy scheme in terms of eligibility criteria, and we have moved from a focus on manufacturing to a broader remit across industry.

The Minister of State should be allowed to speak without interruption.

This is important.

It is important enough that the Deputy should listen to the answer.

I am trying to be as helpful as possible in giving information to the Deputy. If he wanted that specific information, he should have put down a question to that effect. I am attempting to answer as broadly as I can. Regarding the county enterprise boards, it is important to recognise that their focus is to assist start-ups——

——and their focus is export-orientated. There is little point in us offering grant aid to a company which would have got off the ground in any case or which would displace an existing company. As I said, start-ups are the remit of the county and city enterprise boards. There are other agencies dealing with the issues raised by the Deputy and, in particular, the employment subsidy scheme has been amended to address those concerns.

May I make a final point?

No, I am moving on to Question No. 5, which is another of Deputy English's questions. We are well over time on this question.

Employment Support Services.

Damien English

Question:

5 Deputy Damien English asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number of notified redundancies made to date in 2009; her plans to expand the terms of reference of the work placement scheme to include companies that employ less than ten people; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [41201/09]

To date in 2009, 67,207 redundancy claims have been lodged with my Department, a very significant increase on the levels of claims lodged in earlier years. My Department and its agencies are actively trying to stem this unwelcome increase in job losses through initiatives such as the employment subsidy scheme. Earlier this week we announced that 7,478 jobs in 453 enterprises are to receive direct support under the first round of the scheme. Companies have now committed, as part of their application to the scheme, to retaining 35,283 jobs. In addition, we announced that a second broader call for applications with extended eligibility criteria, open to both exporting and non-exporting firms, will be launched next week.

The Government has enacted several measures in response to the increasing number of redundancies. We have doubled the provision of training and work experience places managed by FÁS to more than 130,000. In addition, we have increased the national employment action plan referral capacity of FÁS employment services to 147,000 places, almost double the 2008 provision. We are determined and committed to keeping the unemployed as close to the labour market as possible during these challenging times.

That is why the Government introduced the work placement programme which is providing an initial 2,000 six-month work experience places to unemployed individuals, including graduates. We are open to taking on board some of Deputy Penrose's suggestions in this regard. The work experience participants receive under the scheme will provide portable and transferable skills in a range of areas and will increase their employability. There are currently 102 participants on the programme and a further 2,019 have registered their interest with FÁS employment services. FÁS is currently advertising 527 positions and will continue to promote the programme at local, regional and national levels.

In view of the level of interest expressed by several stakeholders in the programme, a review of eligibility criteria is currently being conducted. That review will conclude shortly and we expect it to make the work placement programme more accessible to both participants and providers.

I welcome the announcement that there will be changes both to the employment subsidy scheme and the work placement scheme. It is interesting how a week of questions at committee meetings can bring about those types of changes. While there have been more than 2,000 graduate applications, there is a shortage of companies applying to participate in the graduate employment scheme. We have been debating labour activation schemes and related issues for a year and a half but of the two schemes put in place by the Government, one has been only moderately successful and the other is clearly a failure, with only a few hundred places on offer. What types of changes are envisaged in order to attract more companies? We had a useful discussion at Tuesday's meeting of the Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment which was attended by officials from the Department and from Enterprise Ireland. There was general agreement that changes are required to allow a greater number of social welfare recipients to take up places on such schemes. I acknowledge that the Department has undertaken to introduce changes but am interested to know precisely what those changes comprise.

Is there any proposal to lift the cap of 2,000 on the number of positions available under the work placement programme? There would be no significant cost in such an expansion. Will the Minister of State indicate whether his Department is in negotiations with the Department of Social and Family Affairs with a view to changing the rules to allow persons currently drawing down social welfare benefits to work? A change was made in respect of volunteers and the same should be done to allow more people to participate in new community schemes.

On the first question, there is a commitment in the revised programme for Government to keep the number of places under review. On the second point, we are engaged in discussions with the Department of Social and Family Affairs and the Cabinet sub-committee on economic renewal. This week FÁS commenced a promotional campaign for the work placement programmes across local newspapers and radio stations in order to encourage providers and potential participants to register their interest in the scheme.

The departmental officials indicated at this week's meeting of the Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment that it may be open to public bodies to avail of work placement schemes. Are there openings for local authorities to start up new community employment schemes for people on social welfare? If not, will that proposal be given serious consideration? The schemes we are discussing cater for a few thousands but there are hundreds of thousands of people in need of support.

The requirement that persons must be unemployed for an unbroken period of six months is causing problems for potential applicants to the schemes. For example, a person who is out of the country for some weeks within a six-month period or who secures employment for several weeks will not be eligible. That makes no sense. A person's application should not be hindered if his or her six-month period of unemployment is broken up for one reason or another. I understand this is a matter for the Department of Social and Family Affairs but it has a knock-on effect for the schemes administered by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. Perhaps the Minister of State will convey that message to the Minister for Social and Family Affairs.

We are considering all the issues the Deputy has raised but there are also issues relevant to this matter to be considered by the Department of Finance.

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