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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 30 Jan 2013

Vol. 790 No. 2

Leaders' Questions

Yesterday the Government launched its first action report on bullying. It was launched with great fanfare and with a commitment to allocate €500,000 in dedicated funding this year. This report is to be welcomed and all the recommendations should be fully implemented. One recommendation is to spend time training parents to counter cyberbullying. Following the cuts to the guidance counselling services, however, secondary schools across the country are now expected to prevent bullying with one hand tied behind their backs.

These actions do not add up. They send the wrong message completely. The service provided by guidance counsellors in our schools was rightly built up over the past 20 years. In budget 2012 the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn, removed the specific allocation for the country's 700 guidance teachers from second level schools. He told them that guidance counselling and provision should now be provided out of the general teacher allocations to schools. This was effectively a €35 million cut in guidance counselling services. That is matched with the allocation this year of €500,000 to the action report on bullying. It totally undermines any genuine attempt to tackle bullying in our schools. Cutting guidance counsellors cuts those who provide a firefighting service at second level.

Every Deputy is aware of the worrying surge in mental health problems among our young people. Ireland unfortunately has one of the highest suicide rates among youth in Europe. Does the Taoiseach accept that the Minister for Education and Skills made a serious mistake in cutting the guidance counsellor allocation in last year's budget? If this Government is serious about addressing the growing problem of bullying and youth mental health problems will it consider reinstating the guidance counsellors in second level schools?

This is not a matter for any individual teacher in any school.

The Minister devolved greater responsibility to each school in respect of career guidance and the opportunities for schools to restructure their teaching staff. The report to which the Deputy refers is very welcome. I hope that its guidelines will be implemented. It is part of an overall approach to dealing with this problem which causes a great deal of stress for young people and which has ended in tragic consequences in several cases. Young people are becoming more and more aware of the extent, range and content of bullying and as education and information becomes available about the dangers of this they respond to it. The Minister will not reverse his decision in respect of the treatment of schools generally. The decision to change the structure for career guidance is part of an overall school approach. The Minister is adamant that mental health is the responsibility of the teaching staff in general-----

Blame the teachers.

-----and the whole school community is involved in this depending on the numbers involved, or the individuals who might be vulnerable. The Minister is also confident that the guidelines will assist schools in providing the guidance and support that is needed. It is a matter of great concern and interest to everybody. The Minister has tried, given the constraints on him, to have a whole school approach to this. He made a decision in respect of career guidance to devolve greater responsibility for decision making to the schools, which they have taken on. We hope that the money allocated to this report, announced yesterday will aid teachers and the general community in dealing with the many problems that young people face.

The Taoiseach is blaming the teachers.

The €500,000 allocated to implementing this report comes against the background of the €35 million that the Minister for Education and Skills has taken away from the guidance counselling service. This does not empower schools. Schools used the €35 million that has been cut specifically for providing guidance counselling services. The Minister told the schools that they need to continue to provide that service but instead find the money from their other resources. That is the background against which the Government is introducing the anti-bullying guidelines launched yesterday. In no way has it empowered schools.

The Minister's and the Taoiseach's use of the term "whole school approach" is totally wrong. I agree absolutely that we need a "whole school approach" to mental health and to addressing bullying. What happens when an ordinary member of the teaching staff is engaging with a student and refers him or her down the line to a qualified guidance counsellor, 700 of whom were available until this year, and that student knocks on the door but there is nobody behind the door? That is not a whole school approach to dealing with this issue. We need to tackle a growing epidemic of mental health problems among our young people in recent times. The only way to do so is to examine the damage that cut has caused and reverse it. I ask the Taoiseach to give up the 'oul rhetoric that we have heard from him and from the Minister on this issue, rhetoric of "empowerment" of "giving more responsibility to schools". They have in fact cut a front-line service and if we are serious about this issue, as we all need to be, he needs to reverse the cut and provide the resources at school level that can ensure we give the protection, advice and support necessary to our young people who need it now more than ever.

The Deputy is aware that guidance provision is now managed from schools within their standard teacher allocation rather than separately, as had been the case. Schools continue to make provision for guidance and counselling and such decisions are made by principals in the best interest of their students. They know them, their environment and their interests and will have the best regard to using the resources available to them. As the Deputy is well aware, this is not the responsibility of any single individual; all teachers have an important role, including the year heads selected by students. That is often an important element to consider when bringing the difficulties that arise to the attention of school principals and leaders. The changes announced last year give greater autonomy to school principals in how they allocate resources to best meet the needs of their students. It is also worth pointing out that as part of the budgetary measures the Department helped to shelter the impact of this change, particularly for DEIS post-primary schools, by improving their standard staffing allocations.

The anti-bullying action plan announced by the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, and the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, set out 12 actions designed to help prevent and tackle bullying in schools. This is a 24-7 operation. Many young people are either the subject of bullying on a regular basis or are intent on bullying. I have talked to many young people who are well aware of fellow students and peers who become subject to this practice. Unfortunately it has ended in tragic consequences in a number of cases and we want to do everything we can to prevent that kind of outcome.

Inniu, beidh Eagraíocht Naomh Uinseann de Pól ag foilsiú tuairisc dá chuid a inseoidh, don chéad uair, go bhfuil breis agus 100,000 duine ag teacht chuig an eagraíocht sin chun tacaíocht a fháil ghnáth chaiteachas cosúil le ola chun an teach a théamh nó bia a chur ar an tábla nó chun chomhneartú don Chéad Chomaoineach nó don Nollaig. Taispeánann seo an deacracht agus na himpleachtaí atá ag polasaithe lochtacha an Rialtais le dhá bhliain anuas.

Last year the number of people who turned to the Society of St. Vincent de Paul exceeded 100,000 for the first time, a figure that has doubled in the past three years. Their stories paint a picture of the real impact of austerity and the policies implemented by the Taoiseach and his Government in recent years. If the Taoiseach reads these stories he will hear of an elderly couple, aged 85 and 82 years, with a life's work behind them, who turned to the Society of St. Vincent de Paul for the first time, simply to be able to heat their home. They were donors to the society in the past but now they have nowhere else to turn. The Taoiseach will hear of the middle-class family with four children living in a comfortable area in Dublin, in which the husband is employed but there is nothing to eat. The reason they have nothing to eat is that they prioritised their mortgage payments in order to keep a roof over their heads. Eventually, when their savings had gone, they hit breaking point and turned to the St. Vincent de Paul. This family would not even register among the 180,000 families who are in mortgage distress, as shown in the latest report, because the family has not yet slipped into arrears. Their situation reflects that of many other thousands of people throughout this State. People are going without food and cutting back on heating and other essentials just to meet their mortgage repayments. One in four mortgages are in arrears, a shocking and alarming figure.

The Taoiseach needs to realise that this is a crisis situation that is out of control. His Government promised to prioritise those in mortgage arrears, but yesterday, two years after that commitment, the Central Bank's chief economist stated that Irish banks are still dragging their heels in regard to mortgage distress. What these families need are real solutions, not more vetoes for banks or platitudes. The Taoiseach needs to understand this. When is the penny going to drop? The banks will not do this on their own; they will not solve the problem, because they are part of the problem. What is needed is proactive implementation of a policy of targeted restructuring of distressed mortgages and, where sustainable, write-downs of those mortgages in order that people can stay in their homes. Will the Taoiseach ensure the banks follow such an approach and will the Government use all the means at its disposal, including the weight of the Central Bank, to ensure such a policy is implemented for many of these people who unfortunately have had to turn to the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and others?

I read the story in today's newspaper about the couple aged 82 and 85 years. From its different chapters throughout the country I am well aware of the work of the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, which does an enormously important job in difficult circumstances. It is true that in these straitened economic times more people have turned to the society; the figures do not lie. However, Deputy Doherty will realise that 40% of our spending is in the area of social protection, the old age pension is €230 per week and the free electricity and fuel allocations are an important contributory factor to the well-being of our senior citizens. There is a great deal of advice available from other agencies such as MABS, where people can discover how they can better budget their resources.

The Deputy also referred to the mortgage situation. We are acutely aware of this; it is the reason it was necessary for the Minister for Finance to make changes in the restructuring of banks and engage with them in a fashion that requires them to get down to business and deal with mortgage arrears, distressed mortgages and the various other schemes. It is clear the Government has set out its own stall in this regard. We do not want to see anybody losing his or her house unless it is absolutely necessary. Comprehensive advice must be provided to people and assistance given to those in mortgage difficulties. I am not satisfied that the banks have moved rapidly enough to deal with this. I am not happy that there was a complete hiatus in having trained personnel to deal with families in mortgage distress, but am happy to note that the banks have now responded and trained people to engage in this area. We have extended the remit of the Cabinet committee dealing with mortgages to deal with banking measures. All of these measures are what the Government can do, working with the banks to ensure they deal conclusively with mortgage distress where applicable.

It is very stressful for families who find that at the end of the week there is very little or nothing left because they cannot restructure their mortgages and meet their requirements. I refer also to the introduction of new measures to deal with debt beyond formal judicial bankruptcy; the insolvency agency will take this up in the coming months. There is the rebalancing of the personal insolvency legislation measures, which will enable the striking of a fairer deal between debtor and creditor, as the Deputy will be aware. There is the introduction of measures to assist families in staying in their homes if at all possible, thereby challenging the banks to live up to their responsibilities in this crisis and to offer a much more expeditious rolling out of their own forbearance programmes.

There are no quick fixes and there is no one-size-fits-all measure that will help in every individual case, but Government is engaging in a proactive and constructive way with the banks to ensure that they sit down and deal with clients who have mortgage distress problems. I am glad to note that the number of cases being concluded is clearly rising, but do not wish to see a situation whereby people are all put on interest-only payments. There needs to be much greater involvement, and the banks were recapitalised to deal with that situation in the first instance.

As the Deputy is aware, as the Government continues to make decisions in the interests of improving the structure of our public finances, the country will become more attractive for continued inward investment.

The Government is particularly focused on small and medium-sized enterprises to create job opportunities. As the Deputy will be aware, we continue to negotiate with the European Central Bank, the Council of Europe and ECOFIN in respect of the decision made on 29 June last year in order that we might change the overall capacity of our economy to grow and prosper and allow people to deal with these problems in a far more realistic fashion.

And now the Government is intent on introducing a vampire tax.

Next month marks the second anniversary of the Government's entry into office.

The first 100 days.

This Administration has been in office for almost two years and the Taoiseach has indicated that he is glad the figures are not rising. Each day 115 people fall into mortgage distress. This is an absolute crisis. As already stated, the Government has been in power for almost two years and it continues to refer to the Personal Insolvency Act, the provisions of which have yet to be implemented. Perhaps the Taoiseach will enlighten us as to when people will be able to access the services for which provision was made under that Act.

The Governor of the Central Bank has indicated that banks do not have the necessary processes in place in respect of this matter. Yesterday, the chief economist of the Central Bank stated that the banks are dragging their heels and that they are actually incentivised not to restructure debts. The Minister for Finance, who is sitting next to the Taoiseach, is the owner of one of those banks - namely, Allied Irish Banks, AIB, plc. Deputy Enda Kenny is the Taoiseach of this State, which owns AIB and which is a major shareholder in Bank of Ireland. Has he sat down with the chief executive of either of those banks and stated that he wants a targeted restructuring of unsustainable mortgages? That is a simple question. Some 180,000 people - one in four of the entire population - have mortgages that are in distress. Each day the mortgages of a further 115 people fall into distress.

What is the Taoiseach doing about this matter? What is he doing to live up to the commitment he gave the people before the general election and that which is contained in the programme for Government in respect of prioritising the issue of mortgage distress? There has been a great deal of talk, but many - such as the members of the family of four to whom I referred, who have nothing to eat and who turned to the Society of St. Vincent de Paul because they wanted to pay their mortgage - want the Taoiseach and the Government to provide solutions.

Deputy Pearse Doherty is welcome to the House as a properly elected Member from Donegal. He will realise that in the almost two years since the Government took office a sea change has occurred in respect of this country's reputation-----

Yes - a change for the worse.

(Interruptions).

-----and its economic position. He will also be aware of the actions taken by the Government in the context of restructuring the banks and making decisions that have improved the capacity of the economy to grow. The Deputy has often made mention of the fact that we lost 250,000 jobs in the private sector, many of them in his own county and the surrounding region, in the three years prior to the Government's entry into office. In the past 12 months, 20,000 jobs have been created in the private sector.

How many were lost?

The Taoiseach should answer the question.

There has been a net increase of 0%.

(Interruptions).

The reputation of this country internationally has been restored to a level of credibility which has not obtained for many years. This is evident in the consistent stream of foreign direct investment into Ireland-----

There are fewer people in employment now than there were when the Government came to power.

A hundred people are emigrating each day.

-----in the reduction in our bond yields from 14% to below 4%-----

Those opposite are willing the country to fail.

-----in the interest of the European Investment Bank in our plight and in the stimulus package which was announced and which is now under way in many schools throughout the country.

Will the Taoiseach please answer the question I asked, particularly for the 180,000 people whose mortgages are distressed?

These developments arise on foot of decisions taken by the Government to improve the disastrous situation in which it found the country when it came into office.

Did the Taoiseach meet representatives from the Central Bank?

The Economic Management Council met the banks on a number of occasions-----

Has the Taoiseach met them?

-----and mortgages, lending and access to credit were central issues in the discussions that took place.

I suppose the Taoiseach believes that.

The Minister for Finance also met the chief executives of the banks this month to discuss this very issue.

As Deputy Pearse Doherty is aware, we put through the Houses a most complicated item of legislation to deal with personal insolvency. The agency established under that legislation will take up office and begin working with people in the very near future.

This is a further incentive for the banks and their trained personnel to get down to business, make decisions and arrive at conclusions in respect of the many mortgages that are in distress. This matter is coming to a head because the Government made the decisions to which I refer and forced the banks into a position in which they are obliged to have personnel in place to deal with clients whose mortgages are in distress. I hope we will be able to arrive at solutions for the vast majority of the latter in the shortest possible timeframe.

Does the Taoiseach really believe that?

One of the starkest comments made at the conference of the Irish Primary Principals' Network last week related to the fact that teachers are encountering an increasing number of children who are coming to school hungry. One in five principals surveyed indicated that children are arriving at school without having eaten breakfast. This will come as no surprise to anyone in the House. There is an alarming rate of poverty among children. What is frightening is the figure contained in statistics released by the CSO last week which indicates that a further 35,000 children have fallen into the poverty trap. The increase in poverty has brought the problem of hungry schoolchildren to critical levels. These are not my words; they are the words of many school principals who discussed this problem on the radio last week. Teachers are reporting an increase in the number of children who are unable to concentrate and an exceptional rise in recent years in the number of pupils who have difficulties with literacy and numeracy.

While the school meals programme operated by the Department of Social Protection is doing some good, it addresses only a fraction of the problem. When I was elected, I made a promise to speak out and represent the many people who cannot speak for themselves. There are now 270,000 children in Ireland who suffer some degree of poverty and it is on their behalf that I speak today. Why am I doing so, particularly as I used my first appearance on Leaders' Questions also to raise the issue of poverty? Anyone who listened to a radio interview with Ms Maria Doyle, a school principal from Waterford, last week could not but be shocked by what she said about her experiences. I met Ms Doyle on Monday. I do not become distressed very easily, but having spoken to her for an hour I did become distressed.

Former Ministers and taoisigh - one of whom has abandoned Ireland and is living in Florida - are in receipt of huge pensions. Is this, which illustrates the inequality in our society, not reprehensible, offensive and shocking? In light of what principals and teachers, particularly those in primary schools, have stated, will the Taoiseach consider providing additional supports, including a further roll-out of the breakfast club scheme? Will he also consider the possibility of providing food to after-school homework clubs? This is what the principals and teachers to whom I refer are seeking. Would the Taoiseach consider establishing a national programme of emergency food aid to deal with the rapidly increasing numbers of children who are going to school hungry?

This is an issue that must be addressed. No child in this country should be hungry. I have visited schools and spoken to principals and I am aware that a child is unable to concentrate, study or learn properly if he or she is hungry. A couple of years ago, the principal of a school located not too far from these Houses took the unorthodox decision to involve the parents from surrounding housing estates whose children attended the school. Instead of sending their children to school with a fizzy drink and a couple of sweets, the mothers involved were encouraged to cook breakfast for them. For a very small charge, those mothers provided a decent breakfast for every child in the school. The result was an improvement in the students' concentration levels and their ability to study.

Perhaps we should get Starbucks involved.

Some €37 million will be spent on the school meals programme this year. A total of 192,000 children will receive meals under the programme. A further €2 million has been allocated in respect of the programme, which is an important consideration. However, I have been visited by parents who have made me aware that some of the wholesome sandwiches and meals delivered to certain schools each day are dumped because they are not used. There is an immorality to that. We must examine what is happening in respect of this matter. In the context of those who really might be hungry-----

It is everybody's fault but yours.

-----we must educate parents in respect of better methods of cooking. We must also seek to discover whether major food brands might become involved.

Feed them horse meat.

In addition, we must consider an extension of the breakfast club scheme. As already stated, however, it is not in the best interests of children that some of the food that is provided each day is being dumped.

Perhaps the Taoiseach should ask Ronald McDonald to deal with this problem.

There is a need for restructuring, in which the Ministers are very interested. The fact that €37 million is being spent on it this year - an increase of more than €2 million - and it will deal with almost 200,000 children shows that it is an issue of obvious concern to the Government and the Department. It is one that requires constant monitoring and discussion with principals and the Department. We will ensure that will happen.

It does not require constant monitoring; rather, it requires immediate action. I do not believe for one moment that the Taoiseach would accept that children should go to school hungry. I do not think he is that type of person and know that he knows that this is the case. We are maintaining levels of support for schools, but the problem is that there are more and more children going to school every year and more and more children falling into poverty. I am appealing to the Taoiseach to meet and sit down with primary school principals to listen to what they are saying. Is he aware that principals across the country are bringing in food for children? Is he aware that there are people presenting at soup kitchens? Deputy Thomas Pringle tells me that one is to be opened in Donegal and also in Sligo. People are going to them to get food to give to their children. I have a very simple request. If what school principals are saying is correct and I do not doubt them, will the Taoiseach and his Department meet them? We are not speaking about adults but about the most vulnerable people in our society - young children aged five, six and seven years who are going to school without breakfast and hungry. This cannot be tolerated by any of us in the House, irrespective of our political differences and views on what has happened to the economy or who created the problems in it. The immediate problem is that children are going to school at 8 a.m. before school starts at 9 a.m. in order that they might get something to eat, as was said on the airwaves last week. I am making an appeal to the Taoiseach; I am not arguing with him. I do not want to get into a big row with him on this matter. I appeal to him to meet principals to hear what they have to say. Deputy Finian McGrath is a former school principal and has met principals in recent weeks. They tell him that this is happening. We cannot tolerate it and must bring it to an end. I, therefore, ask the Taoiseach to at least meet principals to listen to what they have to say and do something for the young children concerned.

I am not interested in having a row with the Deputy. The point he has raised is very serious. School principals know the background and circumstances which cause such problems which are many and evident across a number of issues. It is a case of being able to have a flexible scheme. The Deputy is aware of the need for sensitive treatment of children in school, as no one want to see social barriers erected. It is a case of a principal having an understanding of the background to individual problems. That children are well fed and nourished is very important for their concentration levels and educational attainment. No child in an Irish school in 2013 should be hungry. It is a case of using the resources being expended where they will be most beneficial. It is not a case of meeting principals to hear from them what the Deputy is telling me; rather, it is a case of being able to use the resources available to best effect. I will discuss the issue with the Minister for Education and Skills following the meeting with principals from the association to which the Deputy referred.

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