Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 10 Dec 2013

Vol. 824 No. 1

Topical Issue Debate

Foreign Conflicts

Deputy Ann Phelan

It is particularly poignant for me to be discussing this issue on the same day that the world celebrates the life of one of the most influential and courageous figures in our lifetime, Nelson Mandela. As someone who played such a pivotal role in the anti-apartheid regime in South Africa and whose name has become synonymous with peace and friendship and democracy, it would have deeply saddened him to hear of the atrocities being inflicted upon the citizens of the Central African Republic. Today, all the eyes of the world are fixed on the African continent. The Central African Republic is a nation of 4.5 million people, not unlike our own. It is bigger than France and in the heart of Africa. It has been gripped by violence since Muslim Séléka rebels, many of whom are fighters from neighbouring Sudan and Chad, seized power in the country in March this year. One tenth of the population has fled the sectarian violence since the Séléka rebel coalition seized power. It has developed rapidly into religious warfare, including targeted attacks on defenceless civilians, summary executions and mass displacement of communities.

The Central African Republic has experienced decades of coups and rebellions which have kept this mineral and diamond-rich country locked in a time warp since its independence from France in the early 1960s. Despite being rich in natural resources it remains one of the world's least developed economies. It also remains highly dependent on foreign aid, NGOs and the presence of peacekeepers and refugee camps. The need for further peacekeeping missions has become all the more immediate in the light of the recent violence that has erupted between the Muslims and Christians which has contributed to the deaths of more than 400 civilians in the past two days. It has been a tit-for-tat killing spree. I read an account of a 13-year-old boy who was brought onto the street in front of the house of a Christian fighter and shot dead by Muslim militia. This was done purely out of frustration since the rebel fighter was unable to fight the person he was looking for.

The scale of the current conflict is unprecedented. This month, the UN Secretary General, Ban Ki-moon, ordered his officials to start preparing for the likely deployment of a UN peacekeeping mission. However, African leaders would prefer to give the African Union force time to stabilise the situation. Following the killing of French troops last night and given the scale of the killings that have occurred in recent weeks I believe the time waiting is over. The need for humanitarian aid has magnified in recent days. Will the Minister of State outline what the United Nations proposes to do in light of this conflict, before it is descends into warfare of genocidal proportions, reminiscent of the worst days of the Rwandan conflict and genocide?

Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (Deputy Paschal Donohoe)

I thank Deputy Ann Phelan for raising this matter. I assure her the Government is seriously concerned about the deteriorating position in the Central African Republic that she has just outlined. As the Deputy has acknowledged, in recent weeks there has been an alarming breakdown in law and order and basic social structures in the country, as well as a worrying increase in intercommunal violence and gross violations of human rights. As highlighted by the United Nations Secretary General in his report to the Security Council on 15 November, this conflict has the potential to escalate with untold consequences for the people of the Central African Republic and for the wider region. It is clear the national authorities no longer are in a position to guarantee the security of their citizens and the concerted efforts of the international community will be critical to ensure that order can be restored.

The Government welcomes last week's United Nations Security Council resolution that authorised the deployment of an African Union-led peacekeeping force for 12 months and the deployment of French troops to support the African Union mission. Acting under a United Nations mandate, the African Union-led peacekeeping mission will be responsible for the restoration of security in the Central African Republic from 19 December. At a summit in Paris last week, African leaders indicated that the number of African troops deployed to the Central African Republic would increase to 6,000. I commend the African Union on its leadership role in respect of the crisis and hopefully the peacekeeping mission can help to bring stability to the country and to restore security and public order, as well as helping to protect the civilian population. The African Union force is being complemented by up to 1,400 French peacekeeping troops on the ground It was with deep sadness that I learned this morning that two French soldiers had lost their lives in the violence in the Central African Republic overnight. I extend my sympathy to their families and to the French Government. I also welcome the decision of the Security Council to put in place an arms embargo against the Central African Republic. Given the threat posed by armed gangs, banning the export of arms to the country is an important step. Ireland supports strongly the actions of the United Nations, the African Union and France in their efforts to re-establish peace and security in the Central African Republic. Ireland is co-ordinating closely with its European Union partners to consider how best to support the efforts on the ground. Ireland supports a European Union proposal to provide funding to the African Union peacekeeping mission under the European Union's African peace facility fund.

As the Deputy noted, the entire population of 4.6 million people is affected by the crisis. The humanitarian needs are huge and multifaceted, with up to one third of the country's population of 4.6 million now in need of humanitarian assistance. The worsening security situation is increasingly limiting humanitarian access to vulnerable populations in need of assistance. Ireland is particularly concerned about the continued impact of the crisis on civilian populations who already were extremely vulnerable. Reports of widespread human rights violations, including killings, rapes and kidnappings are highly disturbing, as are increasing reports of sectarian violence. It is vital that all parties respect international humanitarian law, that civilians are protected and that humanitarian access be provided for United Nations agencies and non-governmental organisations working in the Central African Republic. Ireland has a clear commitment to the Central African Republic and, since its establishment in 2008, has been one of the few long-standing supporters of the United Nations common humanitarian fund for that country. This year, Ireland has provided €2 million to the common humanitarian fund, thereby allowing the United Nations and non-governmental organisations present in the Central African Republic to undertake lifesaving work with the most vulnerable communities. Ireland will continue, in close co-operation with the United Nations, the European Union and non-governmental organisation partners, to monitor the humanitarian situation and to co-ordinate efforts in response to the unfolding and deep crisis in the Central African Republic. These issues will be addressed by the Foreign Affairs Council or in other words, by all the Foreign Affairs Ministers of the European Union, next Monday in Brussels.

Deputy Ann Phelan

I thank the Minister of State for his comprehensive response. I welcome the forthcoming addressing of these issues by the Foreign Affairs Council next Monday in Brussels because if one learns anything from history, it is that standing by is not an option. In 1994, the world stood idly by as warfare escalated in Rwanda and over a period of 100 days, 800,000 civilians were slaughtered. As a nation and as a member of the international community, Ireland has a responsibility and duty of care to the affected population of the Central African Republic, as in Rwanda and in respect of the current Syrian crisis.

I am conscious that children tend to be targeted in such conflicts. Children in conflict countries should be able to rely on adults, both inside and outside the country concerned, to take decisive steps to ensure their safety. This protection is their entitlement under humanitarian and human rights law, including the Geneva conventions. Unfortunately, in Syria these legal instruments have proven to be completely unable to fulfil any degree of security for children. I also am highly conscious that many of those who have been displaced have no access to shelter, food, water or any adequate living conditions.. The World Medical Association has called for all those who are wounded or sick to be treated and able to obtain medical care without fear of being attacked when so doing. However, in the Central African Republic, I understand there are only eight or nine surgeons throughout the entire country and consequently, one can imagine what that situation must be like. I wish to recall that Nelson Mandela himself dreamed of in Africa at peace. If he proved anything to me, it was that an individual can make a difference and I wish to prevail on the Minister to ascertain whether he can make his difference in his deliberations in Brussels.

Deputy Paschal Donohoe

I note Deputy Ann Phelan began and ended with Nelson Mandela and invoked his spirit and vision for Africa at the outset of her contribution. I wish to emphasise to the Deputy what the United Nations are doing in this regard, the response of the international community and the Irish view of and support for that. A very important point of difference between the position in the Central African Republic and what happened in Syria, which offers an important analogy, is the strong response the regional presence, namely, the African Union, now has put in place. I refer to the African Union presence in the Central African Public, as well as the role that France now is actively playing, as the Deputy acknowledged in her contribution. I noted France has already suffered for the presence it has put into that republic. The other steps that have been taken and which offer another important point of difference to the Syrian conflict concerns the prompt implementation of the arms embargo to prevent additional weapons getting into the hands of those who would be willing to use them and who would be all too willing to target vulnerable communities. In addition, as I mentioned in my earlier contribution, a fund is in place, to which Ireland has contributed strongly.

The European Union will consider how it can respond and in response to the Deputy's comments, I assure her this will be the first item on the agenda of the meeting of all the Foreign Affairs Ministers that will take place on Monday and at which the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade will be representing Ireland. Were he present in the Chamber, he would have wished to make this point to the Deputy. The European Union and in particular, Commissioner Georgieva, will play an active role in trying to put in place a humanitarian response to this crisis. In the middle of August, the European Commission put in place a €10 million fund on foot of what had been happening there in the post-coup environment.

To date, €20 million has been provided to those most in need. I assure the Deputy that this humanitarian crisis will be given the attention it deserves. I refer to the role of the African Union which is operating under the mandate and the support of the United Nations. I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. She is correct in her view that it is a significant tragedy on a day when we would all wish for a better future for the people of Africa.

Special Educational Needs Staffing

Deputy Michelle Mulherin

I appreciate the opportunity to speak on this serious and unsatisfactory situation prevailing in some special needs schools which need to provide nursing care for pupils. A total of 127 special schools cater for the education of children and young adults with mild to moderate and severe learning disability. Many of these children have serious medical needs and life-limiting conditions which means they need nursing care while at school. However, there is a disparity in the provision of nursing care in the schools. Some nurses in some schools are funded by umbrella organisations while others are funded by a HSE grant and-or by the school board of management. In a small number of cases, nurses are directly employed by the HSE. Some schools have no nursing care for pupils but are trying to get it. Some schools in receipt of the HSE block grant must stretch their funding to cover not only a nurse, but also to provide for medical equipment and supplies, anything from medical gloves and syringes to thermometers and everything in between. In some cases if nurses are not in a position to attend school then students with severe medical conditions are unable to attend school on those days. This is a very unsatisfactory situation.

The manner in which the nurse has to work in the school environment is not satisfactory and that is the reason I have raised this issue. These nurses, for the most part, are working in isolation without the support of a professional medical body. There is no medical model set out for these nurses working in a school environment. There are no prescribed best practice and procedure or policies to which such a nurse can refer. This is contrary to the situation prevailing in the United Kingdom.

The board of management of a school is presiding over the work of a nurse but without any medical expertise or guidelines I question how the board of management can do so. While the board of management can provide management accountability for the operation of the school and the employment of staff, I ask how can it ensure that professional accountability and support is in place for the nurse. There is no professional accountability.

The situation needs proper funding to allow nurses to be permanently employed. A medical model needs to be put in place to ensure best practice and policy and professional accountability in order to support these nurses. There is a need for a nurse to be directly employed and funded by the HSE in co-operation with the Department of Education and Skills. The right to education for children with severe learning difficulties must be supported by nursing care in the case of some children and young adults. However, the gap in the service has not been addressed. I ask for support and some form of framework for those nurses. The current situation is neither desirable for themselves, the boards of management nor the children and the families.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Kathleen Lynch)

I thank Deputy Mulherin for raising this matter which reaches into every corner of Ireland. I have no doubt that everyone in the House is aware of the pressures on the health system to maintain services within the parameters of its budget. It has been a topic for discussion over many weeks. Deputy Kelleher has been actively engaged in that discussion. Notwithstanding these financial pressures, I assure Deputy Mulherin that the Government is fully committed to the ongoing delivery of vital services and supports to children with disabilities to the greatest extent possible within available resources.

Over the past number of years the health sector has invested significant resources in services for children with disabilities. For the first time we have discovered that the budget for all disability services is now more than €6 billion. Disability services for children have a long history and many organisations provide excellent support and interventions for children and their families. However, there is a wide variation in the services available in different parts of the country and for different categories of disability. The HSE is working on reconfiguring existing therapy resources into geographic-based teams for children aged from birth to 18 years of age. The HSE's national programme on progressing disability services for children and young people aged from birth to 18 years, aims to achieve a national, unified approach to the delivery of disability services so that there is a clear pathway for all children to the services they need, regardless of where they live, what school they go to or the nature of their disability or developmental delay.

The Deputy raises the issue of professional accountability of nursing staff and their adherence to proper and standardised clinical procedures in special schools. I am not certain this is what the Deputy meant in her Topical Issue matter but I will deal with it. I do not want us to misunderstand each other.

It should be noted that all nurses are legally required to be registered with the Nursing and Midwifery Board of Ireland and are accountable to the public though the board. They must adhere to a code of professional conduct and a scope of practice guidance document. The scope of practice sets out the range of roles, functions, responsibilities and activities for which a registered nurse or registered midwife is educated, is competent and has the authority to perform. This is the case for all nurses, regardless of their employment setting, including a hospital or a special school. The provision of supports in special schools is an issue which involves both the health and education sectors. These special schools are mainly attached to non-statutory disability service-providers which are funded by the HSE. Many of these service-providers will have support staff, including nursing staff, in place. Special schools provide for those children with the most complex special educational needs, beyond what can be provided by mainstream education. Teaching supports are allocated on the basis of very small class sizes. The Department of Education and Skills also provides over 2,100 special needs assistants to special schools to assist in providing for the care needs of pupils attending those schools.

As a result of the considerable medical advances that have taken place in recent years, a small number of children survive premature births or serious illnesses. They continue to have chronic needs that require ongoing medical intervention to ensure their survival. Some special schools catering for children with severe or profound general learning disabilities now have a small cohort of these children enrolled.

The National Council for Special Education, in policy advice to the Minister for Education and Skills earlier this year, recommended a more consistent approach to accessing nursing support for children with high medical needs in special schools through dedicated health service funding,. This recommendation raises significant issues for the health and education sectors. The stakeholders involved, including the HSE, the Department of Education and Skills and the Department of Health, will need to examine this issue fully, including the resource and overall policy implications.

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter.

Deputy Michelle Mulherin

I thank the Minister of State for her reply. To be clear, the issue is not about the qualifications of nurses or the care they provide, rather it is to have a system of professional accountability and support. I know that these nurses working in special schools feel very isolated because there are no prescribed rules, practices and procedures for them to follow.

At the very least that is a framework they require and that should be under the auspices of the Health Service Executive. We inspect various aspects of medical care from nursing homes to whatever, and I am aware that is the responsibility of the Health Information and Quality Authority. As the Minister rightly pointed out, we are talking about only a small number of cases but they are important because if nursing care is not provided for these children and young adults, they will not be able to attend school. It is beholding on the Minister that a proper system of support and accountability is put in place, in whatever form it takes. We must take into account the reality of financial constraints but these people cannot be left out on a limb as they are at the moment.

I urge that the recommendations of the National Council for Special Education would be taken on board and that ways are found to address the current shortcomings in the education system but which are the responsibility of the Department of Health.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

I take on board everything the Deputy said and would disagree with very little of it other than to say I am always reluctant to move back to the medical model when it comes to disability because most people within the disability sector, and I am talking about the people who have a disability rather than those who would speak on their behalf, tell me clearly that they do not want a medical model of care and that it is more that. I understand fully the point the Deputy is making but there are major difficulties in regard to funding. However, I am sure our circumstances will improve and the recommendations from the National Council for Special Education will be taken into account.

HSE Staff Remuneration

Deputy Billy Kelleher

I want to say at the outset that I am conscious we are talking about an individual who is not here to speak for himself. I do not want to impugn anybody's character or integrity but in the public interest I would be failing in my duties if I did not raise this issue. We need to get a full statement of clarification following reports that the director general of the Health Service Executive, HSE, Mr. Tony O'Brien, had received a salary top-up for a job he was no longer doing. It would appear that Mr. O'Brien initially received the payment when he was the head of the National Cancer Screening Service in 2006 and had taken on extra responsibilities as project director of the national plan for radiation oncology on which he did a very fine job. It is now reported that he retained the top-up payment after he moved to the role of assistant director of the HSE in 2010 and continued to be paid until 2012 when he took over the running of the HSE. The error, as it was described, was only discovered when Mr. O'Brien took up his new role in 2012, and no fault on the part of Mr. O'Brien has been found. However, serious questions remain about how a senior HSE official could have been paid a salary top-up for a job he had already left. When the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform was initially asked to ratify the HSE director general salary of €195,000 a year, it refused amid concerns that 18% of Mr. O'Brien's previous salary should not have been allowed. We need to know whether Mr. O'Brien legally retained an 18% top-up on his salary for two years after he left the job, and whether the HSE continued to pay the top-up regardless of the Department's concerns.

We must remember the context in this regard because Mr. O'Brien has indicated that the HSE will claw back funds from any hospitals or health agencies that continue to flout a ban on top-up payments to senior officials. Could an arrangement be put in place whereby Mr. O'Brien's salary is reduced by the relevant amount he received annually in the years after he joined the HSE?

I watched Mr. O'Brien's appearance before the Committee of Public Accounts and he was quite forceful in saying that a full review of the agencies and voluntary hospitals would be carried out and, where possible, that the money would be recouped. He went on to state that the nod and wink practice of the past is over. If there is to be consistency and credibility in dealing with this issue we need a full statement from the director general and the Minister in that context.

There is another key question that must be addressed rather than me trying to extract this information over a period. When Mr. O'Brien was negotiating as director general designate with the Department of Health and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform did he request, and this is critically important, that a top-up payment should be included in a financial package as part of the new salary? That is what we need to find out because we know that some section 38 voluntary organisations and agencies in hospitals have been involved in the practice of top-up payments. The Committee of Public Accounts is dealing with that and the HSE director general, Mr. Tony O'Brien, was very forceful on the issue but to be consistent and to have credibility we must have that information. The key question is whether Mr. O'Brien requested that top-up be included in his financial package when he was negotiating with the Department of Health and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and finalising that package for the role of director general designate of the HSE.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. The current director general of the HSE was in receipt of an allowance of approximately €26,000 between 2006 and 2012. This allowance was granted by the HSE to the Director General when he was chief executive of the National Cancer Screening Service in recognition of very significant additional responsibilities which he took on as project director for the National Programme for Radiation Oncology from 1 February 2006. Even the Deputy would agree we are all grateful for the people that introduced, including his party when in government.

While the allowance granted was intended to reflect very significant extra responsibilities, and these additional duties were discharged successfully over a number of years, this arrangement was put in place without the approval of the then Department of Health and Children and the Department of Finance. As I said, and to be transparent, that was in 2006.

In these circumstances the Department of Health wrote to the HSE in November 2012 requesting that it review its procedures for the sanctioning of pay levels, including allowances. In particular, the executive was asked to take the necessary steps to ensure that adequate governance and oversight controls are in place to ensure that the required sanctioning procedures are strictly adhered to.

The Department of Health has reviewed the circumstances of the case of the director general of the HSE and it is not proposed that recoupment of the unsanctioned allowances be sought. Deputy Kelleher referred to the context, and we have to see it in that context.

The approved salary rate for the post of director general is now €185.350. This rate is at a much lower level than the rate at which the chief executive officers of the HSE were paid in the period 2005 to 2012. The salary of the last chief executive officer of the HSE was €322,113 per annum plus additional benefits. It is important to point out that the role of director general of the HSE is one of the most challenging and onerous roles within the public service. I think we are all agreed on that.

As the Deputy is aware, I have requested urgent action to ensure that every section 38 agency is fully compliant with Government pay policy. The HSE has a team of senior managers following up with individual agencies. In addition, the director general of the HSE is meeting the chairpersons and the chief executive officers of all the section 38 organisations this Thursday. Separate meetings are also being held with the organisations concerned.

Due process will have to be followed in the examination of top-ups to senior staff in section 38 agencies. As outlined in the national pay policy, a section 38 provider may make a business case to the HSE to continue to pay a specific allowance. Where the HSE is satisfied that there are legitimate reasons for continuation of the allowance it may decide to apply to the Department of Health for sanction. Each such case will be determined on its merits and my Department will liaise, as appropriate, with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.

I am confident that the HSE will take whatever action is necessary to achieve full compliance with Government pay policy from the agencies concerned and that any governance deficits identified are comprehensively rectified immediately. I agree with Deputy Kelleher that this is an issue of public concern.

In regard to top-ups in areas where there is significant private and public funding, the public has cast its verdict on that. It is a legacy issue and it needs to stop.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

I appreciate the Minister of State's reply in this context. As I said at the outset, this is not impugning anybody's character but it would be remiss of me in my role as an Opposition spokesperson not to raise the issue and call for clarity and a statement from Mr. O'Brien as director general of the HSE which, bear in mind, oversees the spending of approximately €13 billion per year of public funds and has a critical role in the lives of people on a daily basis, as was discussed in the previous Topical Issue matter.

I did not expect the Minister of State to refer to it but Mr. O'Brien stated he was unaware this top-up continued to be paid and that it was an error in the context of the HSE not receiving sanction from the Department of Health or the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. When Mr. O'Brien was appointed director general designate, did he at that stage request that top-up payment be rolled into the financial package, or remunerative package, he was looking for as director general designate of the HSE? If that is the case, then a major issue has to be addressed because the error would have come to light at that stage and yet he would have still have insisted on it. That is the key issue. We have to ascertain whether that request was made. I do not know if it was but we need a statement from Mr. O'Brien and the Department that at no stage was a top-up requested to be formalised as part of his remunerative package as director general designate. That is the key issue because as the Minister of State and I have said, this is an issue of credibility and consistency and the idea that the nod and the wink practice of the past in regard to top-ups must be rooted out. Clearly, the person most in charge and responsible for rooting them out will be the director general himself and there cannot be any questions about that particular individual in terms of top-up payments when he is trying to root out a practice that has gone viral through lots of other agencies.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

It is unfair to ask that question when we simply do not know. The only people who know are Mr. O'Brien and those who were present at that meeting. It is unfair to ask a question like that because it simply leaves it hanging there. The question will probably get a lot of publicity but if the answer is "No", it will get very little airtime and we will have to come back to the House and make that very clear because it is about ensuring natural justice is applied not only to the man in the street but to those of us in whom great trust is placed.

Gaelscoileanna Issues

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

Imagine if there was a cost free solution with proven track records in regard to academic performance which would make it easier to learn a third or fourth language, would create a greater understanding of and openness to different cultures and languages around the world, would make it easier to score higher in English or mathematics and would improve the cogitative ability of students. There is such a process which is called bilingual education. Internationally, it is proved to show massive benefits for people and children as they go through the education system.

Currently, there are 139 Gaelscoileanna in this State which 30,000 children attend. Since this Government came to power two and a half years ago, it has not set up a single Gaelscoil. No Government in this State has ever set up a Gaelscoil. Without the activism of parents, there would not be a Gaelscoil sector in this State. Currently, 5% achieve a Gaelscolaíocht while the demand for same is 25%. Almost every Gaelscoil in the country has excess demand which cannot be said of any other sector.

In the past four years, four Gaelscoileanna have been built. As I said, no Government has ever created a Gaelscoil; parents create them. They are usually housed in very bad environments, in prefabs or in temporary accommodation for 15 to 20 years before the Government provides a solution. There are plenty of examples of this.

In the Sandymount-Ringsend area of Dublin, there was a competition in regard to patronage and despite there being 600 children on a waiting list who were refused access to three Gaelscoileanna in the locality, the competition was won by Educate Together. I am not saying Education Together should not have won the competition; it is not an either-or option. In fact, one could easily have a Gaelscoil Educate Together but that option is not given by the Department in regard to competitions for patronage.

Other areas which have shown excess demand for Gaelscoileanna include Navan, Kells and Oldcastle in my county, Crumlin in south Dublin, Fairview and Clontarf in north Dublin, Kilkenny, New Ross and Clane. In north Cork, there is oversubscription to the four closest Irish medium schools and at least 13 section 29 cases have been taken against one of these schools but there is no new provision planned by the Government.

I have had discussions with English speaking schools. Many of them are struggling to get students and see any Irish language stream as an opportunity to gain extra students and to improve the service they provide to their students. I have contacted the Department of Education and Skills to try to seek support for these Irish language streams but I have been sent from Billy to Jack trying to find anybody who knows anything about such supports for Irish language streams. If one Googles Irish language streams in education, all of the results will be for the North of Ireland. There are no results on the first page will be for the South of Ireland. There is a serious demand for Irish language education and there are serious benefits but the Government is not providing anywhere near enough to meet that demand.

Minister of State at the Department of Education and Skills (Deputy Ciarán Cannon)

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. Primary and post-primary education has a pivotal role to play in the preservation and expansion of the Irish language. The promotion of Irish has been an important aim of successive Governments and its place in our education system has been consistently protected. This is reflected in the fact that for the 2012-13 school year, there were 142 Gaelscoileanna in operation. A further three Gaelscoileanna commenced operation during this school year. There are also 104 all-Irish Gaeltacht primary schools and 928 primary schools where, apart from Irish itself, one or more subjects is taught through the medium of Irish.

At post-primary level, there were 45 Gaelchóláistí in operation for the 2012-13 school. Three more Gaelchóláistí are due to open in September 2014 under new arrangements introduced by the Minister, Deputy Quinn. There were also 11 all-Irish aonads in post-primary schools and there are nine post-primary schools where, apart from Irish itself, one or more subject is taught through the medium of Irish. Two more Irish Aonads are being established in post-primary schools next year.

As the Deputy will be aware, in June 2011, the Minister, Deputy Quinn, announced that 20 new primary and 20 new post-primary schools would be established across a number of locations. The Minister also announced new arrangements for the recognition and determination of patronage of these new primary and post-primary schools. The new arrangements provide a balanced approach to allow for prospective patrons to apply to establish schools. The criteria to be used in deciding on patronage of the new schools place a particular emphasis on parental demand, to which the Deputy referred, that also includes preference for all-Irish school provision.

Since the new arrangements were introduced, parental preference has emerged to support the establishment of three new Gaelscoileanna and these have commenced operation. Furthermore, as part of the patronage determination process for the new post-primary schools, the Department proactively examined all-Irish provision at post-primary level in the areas where the new schools are to be established. It predetermined a requirement for all-Irish provision in three of the areas concerned. These schools will commence operation in 2014. In addition, it is open to new English-medium post-primary schools to establish an all-Irish aonad if there is sufficient parental demand to support such a development.

The Deputy will be aware that the report on the Forum on Patronage and Pluralism in the Primary Sector, the establishment of which was a key objective in the programme for Government, was published by the Minister in April 2012. As a follow-up to the outcome of the forum, surveys of parental preferences with regard to the patronage of primary schools were conducted by the Department in 43 areas across the country. Sufficient parental demand for a wider choice of school patron emerged in 28 of the 43 areas surveyed. One of these areas demonstrated sufficient demand for an Irish-language national school. Some 35 of the 43 areas surveyed are already served by a Gaelscoil. Discussions are ongoing with the Catholic patrons in the areas concerned to make progress on this matter.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

The truth is that a large proportion of primary teachers in this State's education system do not have fluency in the Irish language. This makes it very difficult for them to pass on fluency to the children they teach. The teaching of Irish in our schools was heavily criticised by school inspectors recently. The point I am trying to make is that while I acknowledge there are Gaelscoileanna, there is a chasm between the demand for such schools and the supply of them. The Government's ability to fill that chasm is extremely poor. It should not be necessary for me to tell a man from County Galway that the language is hanging by a thread. According to a really important research document that was published a number of years ago, the Irish language has 16 years left as a living language. The 20-year strategy is in tatters. The Language Commissioner resigned last week because he is frustrated by the Government's inaction in implementing the law as it applies to the Irish language. He said that when children leave school, they are met with compulsory English from the State services.

We need to look at what is happening in other countries. The proportion of children in Wales who receive an all-Welsh education has increased from 18% to 23%. In the 1980s, just 5% of children in the Basque Country received a Basque-language education, but that figure has now increased to 65%. If the demand for Irish-language education that exists among 25% of this country's parents were met, some 700 schools would change over to Irish-language education straight away. Approximately 150,000 students in the primary sector and 40,000 students in the secondary sector would change over to scoileanna lán-Gaelacha. That would meet the demand. It would be virtually cost-free to educate them in such a manner. The political will to do this is sorely missing, however. Despite its positive rhetoric at times, the Government is unfortunately sitting back and watching the corrosion of the Irish-language sector. It should be proactive in making a major change that would leave a legacy and would guarantee the future of Irish as a spoken language.

Deputy Ciarán Cannon

I agree with the Deputy when he says it is incumbent on all of us to protect this unique part of our heritage, our language, which should remain a living part of Irish society for the foreseeable future and for generations to come. There is a need for a fundamental examination of what we are setting out to do when we educate our children through Irish in this country. Are we happy to produce young people who have an understanding of Irish after 14 years in the education system - I would argue that most of them do not love the language - but also have a feeling that it has somehow been foisted upon them through the compulsory teaching of it across our school system?

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

That is not the experience. The experience is that the demand is not being met.

Deputy Ciarán Cannon

I would like to expand on the point I am trying to make. If the young people who learn this language from the age of five to the age of 18 were dropped into the relevant parts of County Galway or another Gaeltacht county, the vast majority of them could not hold the most basic conversation with their counterparts who live in the Gaeltacht and speak the language on a daily basis. In such circumstances, a fundamental re-examination of why and how we teach Irish in our schools is needed. I agree with the Deputy that there is significant demand for all-Irish provision. Anecdotal evidence to this effect is emerging from parents in my county. The Deputy mentioned that up to 600 young people are on a waiting list to access a Gaelscoil in his locality. It is important to note that the parents and children presumably went to school elsewhere. The Deputy may be quite correct when he suggests that a strong desire on the part of parents to have their children educated in an all-Irish medium is emerging. They have the right to demand such provision in an English-medium school. If sufficient demand of this kind emerges from within the parent community of any English-medium school in the country, there is no reason that school cannot deliver all of its subjects through the medium of Irish in junior infants, senior infants, first class and second class. That opportunity has always existed in our school system. It remains within our school system.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

Schools need support from the Department to be able to take that daunting step.

Deputy Ciarán Cannon

I agree that it is a daunting step. I would be disappointed if parents were to decide to found such a unit but sufficient support to enable that to happen did not emanate from within my Department. I would certainly work towards addressing that challenge. At this point, that national need does not seem to be emerging from within the general school system. If that need were to emerge, it would be incumbent on the Department to respond to it. I emphasise that if there is sufficient demand from within a school community for a school to make the transition to at least some element of Irish-medium delivery, there is a process to facilitate that. The right of the parent community to take this approach can be exercised if those involved wish to do so.