Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 12 Dec 2013

Vol. 824 No. 3

Order of Business

The Tánaiste

The Order of Business is No. 10a, Supplementary Estimates for Public Services [Vote 3] - back from committee; No. 10, the Public Service Management (Recruitment and Appointments) (Amendment) Bill 2013 [Seanad] – motion to instruct committee (resumed); and No. 21, Public Service Management (Recruitment and Appointments) (Amendment) Bill 2013 [Seanad] - Report and Final Stages (resumed).

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 10a shall be decided without debate and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith.

An Ceann Comhairle

There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 10a, Supplementary Estimates for Public Services, without debate agreed to?

Deputy Michael McGrath

It is not agreed. I acknowledge that this issue was debated this morning at the health committee but it would have been preferable if we had the service plan for 2014 before us when discussing the Supplementary Estimates for 2013. I raise one issue with the Tánaiste. The Estimate is for €219 million. I understand the Tánaiste is saying there are other savings which will net off about €20 million.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have a discussion on it here now.

Deputy Michael McGrath

If we can clarify one issue it might make it a bit more straightforward. The Estimate is €219 million as opposed to €199 million. Can the Tánaiste clarify that matter please?

An Ceann Comhairle

No, he cannot. We cannot have a debate on the issue here. This is a technical issue, whether we do it without debate or not.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

The difficulty with all of this is more than just technical, a Cheann Comhairle-----

An Ceann Comhairle

No. It is purely a technical issue-----

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

-----in terms of how we proceed.

An Ceann Comhairle

-----whether we have a debate or we do not; it is as simple as that.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Can I suggest that a debate is badly needed because-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Okay. Vote against the proposal.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

-----on the one hand we are bringing forward a Supplementary Estimate, which is a recognition that the health budget has overrun or fallen short, and on the other we have not had sight of the plan that proposes €666 million of cuts? I ask the Tánaiste to square that circle if he can.

An Ceann Comhairle

Tánaiste, this is without debate.

The Tánaiste

Yes. This issue was dealt with at the health committee this morning. I believe the discussion lasted over an hour and a half.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

In the absence of the service plan.

The Tánaiste

The issue here-----

Deputy Barry Cowen

No service plan.

The Tánaiste

-----as is normally the case when issues like this come back from committee, is that they are taken without debate on the floor of the House.

Question, "That the proposal for dealing with No. 10a, Supplementary Estimates for Public Services, without debate be agreed to", put and declared carried.

Deputy Michael McGrath

I wish to raise two issues with the Tánaiste, first, in the area of health and the budgetary promise to introduce free GP care for all children under the age of six. Can the Tánaiste give a specific timeline as to when we will see that legislation, and when does the Government intend to make that facility available to families?

Second, when we will have the National Treasury Management Agency (No. 1) Bill, which relates to the strategic investment fund and the National Pensions Reserve Fund and putting the investment fund on a statutory basis to get at least some of the more than €6 billion awaiting deployment for viable commercial projects up and running as quickly as possible?

The Tánaiste

The legislation in respect of the introduction of free GP care for children under the age of six is being prepared by the Minister of State, Deputy White, and by the Minister, Deputy Reilly. We expect to have that legislation before Government in the very near future.

In respect of the National Treasury Management Agency (No. 1) Bill, the intention is to publish that this session. We expect to see it published before the House returns in the new year.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

On the issue of the Health Service Executive service plan, can the Tánaiste give us more definitive information on that? I know it was raised yesterday but when might we see this service plan that has been delayed?

In respect of the Charities Act on the Statue Book since 2009, when will we see the oversight and enhanced accountability mechanisms? The Tánaiste indicated earlier that it will be early in the new year. If the Tánaiste can be more precise than that, I would appreciate it.

The Tánaiste

First, the HSE service plan is not delayed. There is a process for considering the HSE service plan, that is, it is submitted to the Minister for Health. That has been done. There is a period of 21 days within which the Minister for Health considers the plan. That 21 days runs to Monday next, 16 December, and the Minister for Health will have made his decision on the service plan by then.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Do we see it then? Is it published?

The Tánaiste

It is laid before the House. There is a formal process for doing it.

Second, the Deputy asked about the Charities Bill and the establishment of the charities regulation authority.

The full implementation of the Charities Act, including the establishment of the authority and the register of charities, had resource implications and had to be examined in the context of the urgent need to reduce Government expenditure. The Minister did not bring the legislation into force to consider how best to achieve the objectives of the Act in that context but it is Government policy to strengthen the regulation of the charitable sector in an effective and proportionate way. The Minister is looking at the commencement of the various sections of the Act and my understanding is that he will do that next year.

Deputy Brian Stanley

The Water Services (No. 2) Bill is going through the Seanad at the moment. The Government gave a commitment that the legislation would be circulated to the relevant committees but this Bill has not been circulated to the Joint Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht. Will it be guillotined when it comes before the House next week? There is a deadline on this. The transfer of assets will happen on 1 January next.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a matter for the Whips.

Deputy Brian Stanley

Will the Tánaiste give a commitment that it will not be guillotined and that, if necessary, we will sit next Friday to complete the debate on the Bill and to give the Opposition time to go through it? It is major legislation.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

I support Deputy Stanley. I understand from the Whips that all Stages of the Bill will go through the House on Wednesday and that it will be guillotined. The pyrite legislation will be guillotined on Thursday. We talked earlier about the appalling Fianna Fáil record, and rightly so.

An Ceann Comhairle

Hold on a second. Nobody has seen-----

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

When the Tánaiste sat beside me on this side of the House, he used to lambaste Fianna Fáil for guillotining major Bills like the Water Services (No. 2) Bill and the pyrite legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are talking in a vacuum. Nobody knows what next week's business is yet.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

I understand both Bills are being guillotined.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Tánaiste answer the question, if he can? I do not know quite what the question is.

The Tánaiste

My understanding is that the Water Services (No. 2) Bill is in the Seanad. It is expected it will be completed in the Seanad early next week and that it will come into this House. The issue of the taking of the Bill in the House is something to be considered by the Whips.

Deputy Barry Cowen

Would the Tánaiste agree with it?

The Tánaiste

I have heard the submission which Deputies Broughan and Stanley have made about sitting on Friday and the Whips will consider that.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

The Tánaiste said the policing plan was laid before the House about two weeks ago. Approximately 80% of it is the same as last year. The number one goal is securing the nation but I can tell the Tánaiste that people in my constituency might as well leave their keys in their doors given the number of burglaries. We need to talk about where resources are deployed. When will we get an opportunity to have a proper debate on this policing plan?

The Tánaiste

Arrangements for a debate on the policing plan can be discussed by the Whips-----

Deputy Catherine Murphy

I already asked.

The Tánaiste

-----and at the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality. I am sure the Deputy and the House will welcome that this Government, after a long number of years, has recommenced the recruitment of gardaí.

Deputy Charlie McConalogue

Has the value for money review of small schools gone before, and been discussed by, the Cabinet? Why has it not yet been published? I understand the Minister for Education and Skills has the review for more than nine months. This is important in light of the fact that since the Government took office, it has increased the pupil-teacher ratio by four points for schools with 85 students or fewer. There is concern about what is in this value for money review, and rightly so. Has it gone to the Cabinet and why does the Government continue to sit on it, so to speak?

An Ceann Comhairle

Is there agreement to discuss this?

The Tánaiste

It would be more appropriate to raise this issue with the Minister for Education and Skills. There is no legislation on this issue.

Deputy Charlie McConalogue

The review should be laid before the House.

The Tánaiste

If it is laid before the House, there are ways-----

Deputy Brendan Howlin

Discuss it at the Joint Committee on Education and Social Protection.

An Ceann Comhairle

Maybe Deputy McConalogue could ask his Whip------

The Tánaiste

There are ample ways in which this can be discussed, including at Question Time with the Minister for Education and Skills and at the Joint Committee on Education and Social Protection. That is the appropriate way to deal with it.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Could we get back to dealing with matters which can be raised on the Order of Business? I do not like telling people to stay quiet all the time but they should stick to the rules and then we can get on with it. I call Deputy Fleming and hope he is within the rules.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

We do not need any comments.

Deputy Sean Fleming

In view of the call by many members of both Government parties to give legislative effect to the planning rules for wind turbines and the document issued by the Minister, is there a timescale for legislation to give effect to those guidelines for wind turbines? There has been much comment about proposals by the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht in regard to renting national monuments to private interests. A monuments Bill is scheduled to deal with the protection and regulation of our national archaeological heritage. Will this legislation include protocols to deal with renting these premises to the private sector?

The Tánaiste

The monuments Bill is due next year. In regard to wind turbines, the Minister of State with responsibility for housing and planning has draft planning guidelines on that matter and is inviting submissions on them. She is very willing to consider the submissions made to her on the matter. She wants a very open and full public consultation on this issue because she is very aware of the concerns many communities have about this issue.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I refer to a provision in the Companies (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2013 to allow for simplification of the filing system and the removal of a true copy. Many businesses are not computer literate, so will the Government ensure that is recognised? Not everybody has e-mail.

My next question relates to the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. I introduced a Scrap and Precious Metal Dealers Bill more than two years ago and the Minister promised his own Bill. Damage is being done daily to aviation-----

An Ceann Comhairle

What does that have to do with energy legislation?

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources promised legislation. Aeroplanes will fall out of the sky with the amount of theft of metal taking place.

An Ceann Comhairle

Table a question.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I tabled a question. It is like the gardaí in Templemore. When will we see the Bill?

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

We have four minutes left and other Deputies have questions which I hope are in order and which they are entitled to ask.

The Tánaiste

The Companies (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2013 was passed earlier today. I recommend that Deputy McGrath gets up a bit earlier in the morning and attend to business.

(Interruptions).

The Tánaiste

I do not see any legislation to prevent aeroplanes falling out of the sky.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

Deputy McGrath has done a bit of jumping himself.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

A small bit. I am in the ha'penny place compared to him.

Deputy Patrick O'Donovan

Deputy Donnelly will be waiting for Deputy McGrath.

The Tánaiste

I do not see any legislation that will prevent aeroplanes from falling out of the sky.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

What about the metal Bill?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a Private Members' Bill. It cannot be dealt with here.

The Tánaiste

There is not any metal Bill.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The Minister promised to introduce his own Bill to deal with scrap metal.

An Ceann Comhairle

I do not know about that. The Deputy had better ask the Minister.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I know there will be a great deal of scrap after the next general election.

An Ceann Comhairle

I advise the Deputy to table a question to the Minister.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

He should keep looking up at the sky to make sure it does not fall on him.

Deputy Brendan Griffin

I would like to ask the Tánaiste, in the context of the common arrangements for gas Bill, whether he will give his personal attention to the Shannon liquified natural gas project.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not in order on the Order of Business.

Deputy Brendan Griffin

In the context of the Bill I have mentioned, could I express my disappointment about the failure to select this matter for discussion during Topical Issues this afternoon even though it has been raised by five Deputies?

An Ceann Comhairle

Would you please resume your seat?

Deputy Brendan Griffin

Some 700 jobs and a €1 billion investment are in jeopardy in County Kerry. I appeal to the Ceann Comhairle to select this matter on Tuesday.

An Ceann Comhairle

No. You are not doing your case any good by being so smart and standing up on the Order of Business. It has nothing to do with the Order of Business.

Deputy Brendan Griffin

This is an issue of urgent importance for the county and the region.

An Ceann Comhairle

Perhaps you could have contacted my office and been told the reason, instead of trying to make a play here in the Chamber.

Deputy Brendan Griffin

I did contact your office but I was not given a reason.

The Tánaiste

The common arrangements for gas Bill, which will amend the Electricity Regulation (Act) 1999 and allow for arrangements to be put in place to facilitate the development of an all-island gas market, is due for publication next year.

Deputy Dan Neville

When will the promised amendment to the Mental Health Act 2001 be introduced?

The Tánaiste

I understand the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, is carrying out a review of this whole area. She will come back to the Government with her proposals when they are ready.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

When is the National Economic and Social Development Office Bill, which will place the National Economic and Social Council on a statutory basis, likely to come before the House? I seem to recall that a debate on the Smithwick report was promised in the House in the past couple of weeks. Has any time been allocated for such a debate? Is it envisaged that it will take place before Christmas?

The Tánaiste

The National Economic and Social Development Office (amendment) Bill is due to be published next year. It is intended that a debate on the report of the Smithwick tribunal, which has been submitted to the House, will take place in the new year.

Deputy Barry Cowen

Can the Tánaiste enlighten the Dáil on when we can expect the housing Bill to be introduced to address the housing crisis that exists in Dublin and throughout the country? We have been waiting for three years for this Government to introduce legislation to deal with the lack of available funding for schemes and programmes.

The Tánaiste

The heads of the housing (miscellaneous provisions) Bill are expected shortly. The Bill is due to be published next year. As the Deputy is aware-----

Deputy Barry Cowen

Everything is next year.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

We are in mid-December of this year.

Deputy Barry Cowen

What part of next year are we talking about?

The Tánaiste

The heads of the Bill are expected shortly, as I have said. It will be published after it has been drafted. The intention is to publish it next year. We are not waiting for legislation. In the meantime, the Minister of State with responsibility for housing has announced a €100 million housing programme for next year.

Deputy Barry Cowen

That will not build much.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

It will build more than the Deputy's party built.

Deputy Barry Cowen

We used to have that done by January.

Deputy Eamonn Maloney

What is the timeframe in the coming year for the Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011?

The Tánaiste

The Bill in question is still at Committee Stage. I understand that some amendments to that Bill are to be made. I understand the Minister for Justice and Equality will circulate those amendments in the near future.