Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 19 Dec 2013

Vol. 825 No. 3

Order of Business

Minister for Education and Skills (Deputy Ruairí Quinn)

It is proposed to take No. 10, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Non-Navigational Uses of International Watercourses, back from committee; No. b1, Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013 [Seanad] - Second Stage (Resumed) and Remaining Stages; No. a1, Pyrite Resolution Bill 2013 [Seanad] - Committee and Remaining Stages; and No. 5a, Adoption (Amendment) Bill 2013 - Order for Second Stage, Second and Remaining Stages.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 5.30 p.m. tonight and shall adjourn on the conclusion of Topical Issues; No. 10 shall be decided without debate; the proceedings on Committee and Remaining Stages of No. b1 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 3.40 p.m. today by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government; the proceedings on Committee and Remaining Stages of No. a1 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 4.40 p.m. today by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government; Second and Remaining Stages of No. 5a shall be taken today and the following arrangements shall apply: the proceedings on the Second Stage shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after one hour; the opening speeches of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed ten minutes in each case, and such Members may share time; the speech of each other Member called upon, who may share time, shall not exceed five minutes; and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; and the proceedings on the Committee and Remaining Stages shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 30 minutes by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs; for the purpose of the fortnightly Friday sitting under Standing Order 21(1) on 7 February 2014, the deadline for the submission of Bills to be included in the lottery shall be Friday, 24 January 2014 at 11 a.m., and related Standing Orders shall apply accordingly; and the Dáil on its rising shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 15 January 2014.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are seven proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal on the late sitting agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 10, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Non-Navigational Uses of International Watercourses, without debate agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. b1, Committee and Remaining Stages of the Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013, agreed to?

Deputy Micheál Martin

I wish to put on record how appalled we are at the Government's insistence on making this proposition to the Dáil this morning. It demonstrates an absolute lack of respect for the House, its Members and those who elected us. It demonstrates a lack of respect for any sense of fair procedure or deliberation on the formulation of legislation. The Bill is a very substantive and significant one, since it provides for the transfer of a range of assets and physical infrastructure to Irish Water from local authorities across the country. There are many amendments tabled by Opposition Members. It is very clear that the Government will not give consideration to anything at all that is said in this House on the Bill, nor will it consider any Opposition amendment. By the nature of the order that is now before us, one question will decide the fate of the Bill if Committee and Report Stages are not concluded within the time allowed. Approximately three hours have been allowed today for this substantial and important Bill, which was published two weeks ago. Three hours is all we are allowed.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is only allowed to make a brief statement.

Deputy Barry Cowen

The brevity is the problem.

Deputy Micheál Martin

This is a serious issue and I will be very brief. It goes to the heart of whether the Dáil is relevant. The Government said it would introduce a democratic revolution and that there would be radical political reform. This was mentioned during the Seanad referendum debate but none of it is coming to pass. In fact, the trend is in the opposite direction. The Government is shutting down debate at every opportunity.

It is also to be noticed that the Government shuts down debate on the most politically contentious Bills, be they on the property tax, social welfare or matters such as the one in question, which concerns water charges and the transfer of water infrastructure. The original heads of the Bill-----

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot discuss the Bill. This is purely a time-----

Deputies

I beg the indulgence of the Ceann Comhairle. There was a prohibition on the sale of Irish Water by Bord Gáis Éireann or any part of the company in the original Bill.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, please. There are other Deputies who wish to contribute.

Deputy Micheál Martin

For some unexplained reason, it has been deleted. We have no opportunity to amend that or seek its reinsertion. We have no opportunity to seek the reinsertion of the role of the EPA-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to resume his seat. He has outlined his reasons.

Deputy Micheál Martin

-----as the supervisory authority regarding the environmental objectives of the agency. What the Government is doing is a complete sham and it is wrong.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Deputy Micheál Martin

It sends out the wrong signals to people-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Martin should please give way to Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Deputy Micheál Martin

-----about how seriously the Government takes the Legislature.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

We do not need a chorus.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

This bulldozing of the so-called Water Services (No. 2) Bill, as proposed, represents an attack on the democratic role and responsibilities of Members of this House, who take that role and those responsibilities seriously. Members want to properly scrutinise and examine all legislation. That opportunity is not being presented to us. This is an absolute sham. I have no doubt that if the Minister, Deputy Quinn, were on this side of the House he would be totally intolerant of what is now being proposed. I ask for consistency. This is absolutely outrageous. The Bill is to facilitate the imposition of water charges on householders and other water users across the State. One thing is for sure: it does not give any details about what charges we are to face. Without question, there will be no account taken of people's ability to pay, just as no account was taken of this regarding the local property tax. This has far-reaching implications.

The manager of Dublin City Council and city and county managers across the State have expressed very valid concerns about the consequences of this legislation's passage and its impact from the beginning of the new year. We need the time to address this properly if we are to perform our role as responsible elected representatives, irrespective of the politics we represent. I ask that the Government now withdraw the proposal on the Order Paper and take a completely different course.

Deputy Barry Cowen

Stand up and withdraw it. Be a man.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

It should afford us the chance to do the job we have been elected to do as legislators.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

A Cheann Comhairle-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Only leaders of parties may object. The Deputy knows that as well as I do. I call on the Minister.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

I speak on behalf of the others, the social democrats-----

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Minister to respond. I ask Deputy Broughan to resume his seat.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

-----and Labour Party Members of this House who are bitterly opposed to the travesty that is taking place today. There are 73 amendments, one of which is in my name.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Deputy be co-operative, please? He is not impressing anybody.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

I am not trying to impress anybody but to stop this legislation, this outrage, the intention behind which is to sell off billions of euro worth of assets and tee up the water service for privatisation.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask Deputy Broughan to resume his seat. He can make all his points when discussing the Bill.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

These Ministers - Deputies Quinn and Rabbitte - should be ashamed of themselves for being in any way associated-----

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is totally out of order. I ask him to resume his seat.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

It follows the disgraceful sale of Bord Gáis Energy.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am on my feet. I ask the Deputy to please resume his seat.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

Deputy Rabbitte is going for a double, transferring Bord Gáis Energy to the private sector and setting up the sale of Ireland's water assets.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

I am suspending the House for five minutes.

Sitting suspended at 12.40 p.m. and resumed at 12.45 p.m.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

We are moving with this measure and the proposal to terminate the debate today, following an 18 hour debate in the Seanad, in addition to the time provided for debate in this House.

Deputy John Halligan

This is a sham; it is a joke.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Members should, please, be quiet. The motion relates to the allocation of time. Members are holding up the proceedings of the House and if they keep at it, I will suspend the sitting again. They should make up their minds. This is the second time this morning that we have had bad behaviour. They should allow the Minister to reply. We live in a democracy.

Deputy Micheál Martin

We do not.

Deputy John Halligan

The bad behaviour is on the other side of the House.

A Deputy

What about the Christmas spirit?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister should, please, reply uninterrupted. He should keep going.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

I have three brief observations to make, in accordance with your wishes, a Cheann Comhairle. First, the legislation must be enacted in this calendar year in order for us to begin to implement the legislative measures during 2014.

Deputy Brian Stanley

Did the troika telephone you?

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Members should, please, listen. The Minister should keep going.

Deputy Brian Stanley

That is not true.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

In response to some observations, I am assured by my colleague, the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, that city and county managers have co-operated fully throughout the-----

Deputy John Halligan

They are against it.

Deputy Brian Stanley

They are not happy.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

That is misleading the Dáil.

Deputy John Halligan

They are not elected by the people. We are; we are elected.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister should keep going. Members do not want to hear him.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

They have co-operated in every possible way to make this a reality.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

We will review the implementation of this radical legislation and ensure that if there are problems associated with it in its operation rather than in theory, we will correct them.

Deputy John Halligan

That is all talk.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will now put the question. Is the proposal for dealing with-----

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Will Members, please, stop shouting?

Deputy Micheál Martin

Could you blame anybody, a Cheann Comhairle?

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. b1. agreed to?

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. b1 be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 70; Níl, 45.

Tá

• Bannon, James.
• Breen, Pat.
• Bruton, Richard.
• Burton, Joan.
• Butler, Ray.
• Buttimer, Jerry.
• Byrne, Catherine.
• Byrne, Eric.
• Cannon, Ciarán.
• Conaghan, Michael.
• Conlan, Seán.
• Connaughton, Paul J.
• Conway, Ciara.
• Coonan, Noel.
• Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
• Costello, Joe.
• Coveney, Simon.
• Creed, Michael.
• Deasy, John.
• Deenihan, Jimmy.
• Doherty, Regina.
• Dowds, Robert.
• Doyle, Andrew.
• Durkan, Bernard J.
• English, Damien.
• Farrell, Alan.
• Feighan, Frank.
• Ferris, Anne.
• Fitzgerald, Frances.
• Fitzpatrick, Peter.
• Flanagan, Charles.
• Flanagan, Terence.
• Griffin, Brendan.
• Harrington, Noel.
• Heydon, Martin.
• Humphreys, Kevin.
• Keating, Derek.
• Kehoe, Paul.
• Kenny, Seán.
• Kyne, Seán.
• Lawlor, Anthony.
• McGinley, Dinny.
• McHugh, Joe.
• McNamara, Michael.
• Maloney, Eamonn.
• Mitchell O'Connor, Mary.
• Mulherin, Michelle.
• Murphy, Dara.
• Murphy, Eoghan.
• Nash, Gerald.
• Neville, Dan.
• Noonan, Michael.
• O'Donovan, Patrick.
• O'Dowd, Fergus.
• O'Mahony, John.
• O'Reilly, Joe.
• Penrose, Willie.
• Phelan, Ann.
• Phelan, John Paul.
• Quinn, Ruairí.
• Rabbitte, Pat.
• Ring, Michael.
• Shatter, Alan.
• Sherlock, Sean.
• Spring, Arthur.
• Stagg, Emmet.
• Tuffy, Joanna.
• Varadkar, Leo.
• Wall, Jack.
• White, Alex.

Níl

• Boyd Barrett, Richard.
• Broughan, Thomas P.
• Browne, John.
• Calleary, Dara.
• Collins, Joan.
• Colreavy, Michael.
• Cowen, Barry.
• Crowe, Seán.
• Daly, Clare.
• Doherty, Pearse.
• Dooley, Timmy.
• Ellis, Dessie.
• Ferris, Martin.
• Fleming, Tom.
• Halligan, John.
• Healy, Seamus.
• Healy-Rae, Michael.
• Higgins, Joe.
• Kelleher, Billy.
• Kirk, Seamus.
• Kitt, Michael P.
• Lowry, Michael.
• Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
• McConalogue, Charlie.
• McGrath, Finian.
• McGrath, Mattie.
• McGrath, Michael.
• McLellan, Sandra.
• Martin, Micheál.
• Mathews, Peter.
• Murphy, Catherine.
• Naughten, Denis.
• Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
• Ó Cuív, Éamon.
• Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• O'Brien, Jonathan.
• O'Dea, Willie.
• Pringle, Thomas.
• Shortall, Róisín.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Stanley, Brian.
• Tóibín, Peadar.
• Troy, Robert.
• Wallace, Mick.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Seán Ó Fearghaíl.

Question declared carried.

Deputy Micheál Martin

Given the fundamental disrespect for parliamentary democracy-----

An Ceann Comhairle

You are not saying anything. You will sit down now and-----

Deputy Micheál Martin

I beg your indulgence, a Cheann Comhairle.

An Ceann Comhairle

You do not have my indulgence.

Deputy Micheál Martin

Very briefly, we have absolutely no intention of participating in this charade-----

(Interruptions).

Deputy Micheál Martin

-----and I am going to lead our party out of this House.

(Interruptions).

A Deputy

Good riddance.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. a1 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 5a agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal on the deadline for submission of Bills to the lottery for the sitting on Friday, 7 February 2014, agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal that the Dáil, on rising today, shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 15 January, agreed to? Agreed.