Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 1 May 2014

Vol. 839 No. 2

Other Questions

Housing Policy

Catherine Murphy

Question:

6. Deputy Catherine Murphy asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government if he will provide an update on promised reforms to regulations governing the voluntary housing sectors in view of the rapidly deteriorating housing and homelessness situation around the country if he has undertaken steps to expedite this process in order that housing associations may apply for external funding to construct more accommodation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19563/14]

Deputy Catherine Murphy

Housing associations will increasingly play a part in delivering social housing or at least increasing the number of houses in the rental sector. I acknowledge that voluntary regulation has been developed to deal with the Government's management and financial principles. However, charities have told us that while they are not there to make a profit, neither are they allowed to make a loss. Therefore, there will have to be an element of co-responsibility in drawing down funds. Given the importance of this sector, I would like to hear what is being done to address that aspect of this housing solution.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

The Government’s housing policy statement of June 2011 acknowledged the capacity and track record of the voluntary and co-operative housing sector, and placed approved housing bodies, AHBs, at the heart of its vision for social housing provision. My Department is currently in consultation with the AHB sector regarding the development of a regulatory framework to support the expanded role for the sector as envisaged in the 2011 statement. This framework will provide support and assurance to tenants, the boards of AHBs and their external partners that the sector is well regulated. It will also safeguard the investment that has been made in the sector and encourage future investment.

A significant first step in this regard was taken with the publication on 15 July 2013 of "Building for the Future", a voluntary regulation code for the sector that is available on my Department’s website at www.environ.ie. The code sets out key governance, management and financial principles that AHBs commit to meeting on signing a charter of commitments. To date, just over 130 AHBs have signed up to the code.

My Department, together with the Housing and Sustainable Communities Agency and the Housing Finance Agency, is currently working with the sector to define more detailed financial benchmarks to which AHBs seeking private financial investment could also sign up. In the meantime, it remains open to AHBs to apply for external funding whether that be from the Housing Finance Agency or from private lenders. Seven bodies have been certified by the HFA as eligible for loan finance with approximately €40 million in loans approved. I understand that the committee of which Deputy Murphy is a member also met with the HFA.

In February this year I announced the establishment of an interim regulatory committee for the sector to oversee the implementation of the code and to advise on the development of statutory regulation. The committee includes experts in regulation, housing, law and finance and has been constituted as an independent committee operating for the time being within the Housing and Sustainable Communities Agency.

Implementation of the voluntary code will be a valuable source of information about the scope and final content of the proposed statutory regulatory framework to be developed by 2016. In addition, there will be widespread consultation, in the normal way, during the development of the new legal framework.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

The Minister of State would agree that there is a limited capacity for the Government to deliver direct builds, which would be the ideal solution. Her answer to me is the fallback position. Is there an impediment to local authorities drawing down this money, even at arm's length? If not, can that process be examined and developed quickly? We already have a significant housing deficit to the point that families are becoming homeless. Some 90,000 individuals or families are on the housing waiting lists, and the number is growing.

Not all of the €40 million that has been approved has been drawn down. When Dr. Michelle Norris appeared before our committee, she told us that up to €500 million was available and that funding was not an impediment. If so, drawing down the funding is the impediment. The housing associations claim to have the capacity to do the work if only they could overcome the obstacle presented by staying within the terms of charities legislation, under which they cannot make a loss. How will the Minister of State deal with this aspect of the matter?

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

My understanding is that there is no legal obstacle to local authorities establishing housing associations if they wish to do so. I agree with the Deputy's comments on the difficulties in accessing funding. I share her frustration. As Dr. Norris stated, the Housing Finance Agency has significant funding. We would all like to see that money being drawn down and used to construct houses for people as soon as possible. For this reason, we established a voluntary code and are working on a statutory one.

I attended the first meeting of the interim regulatory committee in the Housing Agency's offices. It is working hard to engage with voluntary bodies, financial institutions and so on to determine the obstacles. The committee is considering detailed financial benchmarks to which it could sign up. I accept that we want progress to be made as quickly as possible and that some of the voluntary bodies are anxious to be able to borrow money, be it on the private markets or through credit unions, pension funds, etc. We are working to remove obstacles.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

This situation must almost be put on a war footing, given the tsunami of difficulties coming down the track with the shortage of accommodation. It is a good news story for the construction industry and unemployed construction workers. They can deliver something tangible and necessary to the community instead of being on schemes, etc. Will the Minister of State take a proactive approach and bring local authorities together in order to assist them in setting up housing associations so that we might widen the scope of those that can draw down this funding and deliver additional social housing, which is critically needed?

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I have arranged to meet the directors of services for housing in the near future. One of the issues that I want to discuss with them is the provision of housing, but also the issue of voids, which was raised in last night's debate, and how to ensure that local authorities reallocate empty houses more quickly. Some of what I heard about a particular local authority closing houses for more than two years was shocking. I want to put a stop to that process so as to ensure provision.

I also want to meet the approved housing bodies, AHBs, on a regular basis to help them however we can in accessing funding. The capital advance leasing facility, CALF, provides for 25% of the cost, but AHBs must raise the remainder. In the next week or two, I will announce 100% funding under the capital assistance scheme, CAS, for voluntary organisations' provision of housing for older people, homeless persons and people with disabilities.

Departmental Investigations

Barry Cowen

Question:

7. Deputy Barry Cowen asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government if he will provide an update on the re-instated inquiries into planning irregularities in seven local authorities; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19555/14]

Deputy Barry Cowen

On assuming office, the Minister put a stop to the proposed planning inquiry into the irregularities in many local authorities and stated that an internal inquiry carried out by his office would be sufficient. In light of recent comments on extending the inquiry again, is it the case that the findings of the internal inquiry warrant the broadening, as originally envisaged by the previous Minister?

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

In accordance with section 255 of the Planning and Development Act 2000, as amended, I appointed MacCabe Durney Barnes to carry out an independent review of planning issues in respect of six of the seven planning authorities that were previously the subject of review by my Department. The planning authorities concerned are Carlow, Cork, Galway and Meath county councils and Cork and Dublin city councils. Planning issues were raised in respect of Donegal County Council and were also previously the subject of review by my Department. However, the High Court made an order in June 2013 quashing the part of my Department's planning review report relating to Donegal following a settlement between my Department and another party who had brought judicial review proceedings in respect of that part of the report. In light of those proceedings, I subsequently sought the advice of the Attorney General on how best to proceed in the case of Donegal. I am currently giving consideration to that advice, which I have received.

The terms of reference require the consultants to undertake a review of planning issues raised in respect of the six planning authorities concerned, particularly regarding the organisation and the systems and procedures used by them in respect of their functions under the Act, having regard to the following key aspects: the extent of consistency of policy translation and implementation within development and local area plans, with particular regard to specific cases, including examining the decision-making process in assessing planning applications and the degree of adherence to the relevant policies in development plan and local area plan policies and statutory planning guidelines, for example, certain EU directives, in informing decisions, and assessing whether the number of cases appealed to An Bord Pleanála and the number of authority decisions reversed indicate poor application of policy contexts for assessing and deciding on planning applications; the processes and procedures followed in the recording and disclosure of information and adjudicating on specific planning applications; recommendations on engagement and co-operation within planning authorities in the context of consistency in decisions and actions taken by planning authorities; and recommendations on the application of development planning policies and national policy and guidance in terms of future planning practices.

The consultants may consult with those persons, with their agreement, who raised the planning issues concerned in order to identify, clarify and understand the planning matters arising that may need to be addressed. The indicative date for the completion of the final report from the consultants is the end of July this year.

Deputy Barry Cowen

I thank the Minister of State for her response, in which she stated that she had initiated an independent inquiry and hired consultants to conduct it on her behalf, but I will repeat my question. When the Minister assumed office he stated that there was no need for such an inquiry and that an internal inquiry would be carried out by his Department. It now appears that, in light of the result of the internal inquiry, the Minister of State believes it is necessary to hold an independent inquiry. This seems to confirm that the previous Minister was right many years ago to initiate an inquiry that the Minister of State now feels is necessary. Have we lost much time because of the difference in opinion between her and the Minister? Will she confirm whether this caused the delay? If not, will she publish the internal inquiry carried out by the Department, as it might enlighten us?

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

It was my predecessor as Minister of State who decided to carry out an internal review, which made useful recommendations. Some have been implemented and others will be implemented in the forthcoming planning Bill, which will also implement the recommendations of the Mahon tribunal report.

The reason we decided to have a further external review was essentially because of the court decision. I took the view following the court decision in respect of Donegal that it was necessary to be clear that the proper procedures were carried out. That is why I have decided, in consultation with my senior Minister, to have a external review carried out on the six other local authorities. We need to take the advice of the Attorney General in respect of Donegal because there are specific legal matters and there have been court cases in the case of Donegal.

Deputy Barry Cowen

The Minister of State has confirmed that it was because of the court case in respect of Donegal that she decided to have an external inquiry. Is that the position?

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

That was one factor.

Deputy Barry Cowen

It had no correlation with the internal inquiry that the Minister initiated on assuming office. Is that so? Has that been concluded? Is there any way that could be published or that the House might be made aware of its findings? The Minister of State is now saying it had no regard to that and that there was nothing emanating from it, if there was such an inquiry at all, when it came to initiating a certain inquiry, which the Minister of State has now confirmed.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

To clarify the matter, I did not say it had no result. In fact, I said it made recommendations, some of which we have already implemented and some of which we will implement in future. Therefore, it was a useful internal review. It was around practices rather than any suggestion of corruption.

Deputy Barry Cowen

Could we publish the full findings?

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

It was around inconsistencies in practice by planning authorities and it was initiated by the then Minister, Mr. Gormley, on that basis. The review we carried out had exactly the same terms of reference as the review Mr. Gormley initiated. It was not an inquiry, it was a review, which is what Mr. Gormley initiated as well.

One of the factors that arose in carrying out the external review was the court case. There was a suggestion from the people who had originally made the complaints. They were picked more or less at random from a variety of complaints that had been made about planning in previous years. There was a suggestion in respect of the Donegal case that the person who made the complaint should be consulted and that is one of the factors that can now be considered by the person carrying out the review.

Deputy Brian Stanley

In respect of the order of the question, on a point of order-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Please, Deputy, other Deputies wish to get in.

Deputy Brian Stanley

I will be brief. On a point of order, the questions are being ordered in such a way that the Sinn Féin questions are being pushed down to Nos. 17 and 20.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

It is a lottery.

Deputy Brian Stanley

I want you to take this up with the questions office. I have had one priority question but nothing since that question was answered. It is not Fianna Fáil's fault but Fianna Fáil has had five questions taken. Our oral questions are not getting taken. I want you to take up this. You could say that our ticket is stuck in the bottom of the drum for one month but you cannot say that happens every month. Will you take this up with the questions office and come back to me with an answer? Why have our questions been down at the bottom every month for several months? Why are we are only getting one priority question? It is very unfair.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

It is an electronic lottery, it is not a drum.

Deputy Brian Stanley

I wonder who programmes it. There is something wrong. I have heard that answer before. There is something wrong with the system. The Sinn Féin questions are down at the bottom every month. We are not getting our questions in and I am objecting to that.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I will take it up but I want to make some progress now.

Deputy Brian Stanley

I want a clear answer. I do not want to be fobbed off again.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Ciara Conway's question is next but she is not present.

Question No. 8 replied to with Written Answers.

Water Charges Introduction

Barry Cowen

Question:

9. Deputy Barry Cowen asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to detail the number of households which will not have a water meter by the time charges are introduced; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19553/14]

Barry Cowen

Question:

15. Deputy Barry Cowen asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government when the full details of his Department's submission to the Commission for Energy Regulation's water charges policy will be released; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19554/14]

Bernard Durkan

Question:

25. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government if he will indicate the level of water charges proposed per household; if he will endeavour to ensure that the level of charge does not become punitive or likely to cause hardship in the ongoing economic climate; if he will try to ensure a fair and equitable system that falls within the capacity of the householder to meet with the minimum of administrative intervention and cost; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19550/14]

Thomas Pringle

Question:

29. Deputy Thomas Pringle asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government if he will outline any decision that has been made regarding water charges and the details of a water tariff; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19564/14]

Deputy Barry Cowen

I received a response from the Minister this week in respect of an estimation on the part of the Department and Irish Water on how many households would be metered. The answer suggested that over 400,000 households out of approximately 1.1 million would be done by the end of this year. I was hoping for a more up-to-date response, to be honest. It might determine a quicker resolution to the Minister's difficulties with his partners in government in respect of resolving the issues that are outstanding. This is something we have been saying for some time. Obviously, there should be an indication of an estimation of the bill to be charged to those who will not have a meter installed, irrespective of the reason or whether it is because of protesters or the poor results rate, as indicated originally by those contracted.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I propose to take Questions Nos. 9, 15, 25 and 29 together.

As the Deputy knows, the programme for Government sets out a commitment to introduce water charges based on usage above a free allowance. The Government considers that charging based on usage is the fairest way to charge for water and it has, therefore, decided that water meters should be installed in households connected to public water supplies. Some 200,000 meters have been installed to date under the national domestic water metering programme, which is one of the most ambitious metering programmes currently under way internationally.

Irish Water has indicated that it will have installed at least 400,000 meters by the end of this year, with 1.058 million properties to be metered by the end of 2016. Of the estimated 1.35 million domestic properties connected to public water supplies, approximately 300,000 will not be metered as part of the current phase due to the cost or technical difficulty in doing so. These properties will include apartment blocks, other multi-occupancy buildings and houses with shared service connections. My Department has funded a study commissioned by Irish Water on possible approaches to metering these properties not as part of the current metering programme but as part of a programme in 2015. The findings of this report are currently being assessed.

Domestic water charges will commence from 1 October 2014 and Irish Water will issue the first bills in January 2015. The approach to charging will be outlined by Irish Water in a water charges plan to be submitted by the company to the Commission for Energy Regulation. The regulator will be responsible for approving the water charges plan and the Water Services (No. 2) Act 2013 provides that Irish Water can collect charges from its customers in respect of water services provided.

As everyone knows, the Government is currently considering proposals on the funding model. The proposals include measures to support the affordability of water charges, including the provision of a free allowance in accordance with the commitment in the programme for Government.

In respect of metering generally, I have been engaged in recent weeks with Irish Water to advance the metering programme as strongly as we possibly can to have 75% of all houses or domestic dwellings metered by the end of 2015.

Deputy Barry Cowen

I thank the Minister for his response. The Minister said that he has funded a study and asked more consultants to carry out work. He is paying them to analyse and recommend to him and to Irish Water a means or mechanism by which pricing may be levied on those who have no meter installed. When was this study initiated? When was it recommended? When was it tendered? When did it commence? When did it conclude? Is this part of the process or jigsaw that is not yet in place and which has forced an undue, unforeseen and unnecessary delay since last January? This follows commitments made by all sides of the current Government on openness, transparency, accountability and information flow to us and others in this process. We understood that we would have been given an indication at least of what the cost might be to consumers, irrespective of their ability or allowances and so on. This information would allow us to engage more directly, formally and openly with those from whom we are seeking support at the doors, as are many others throughout the House.

Deputy Phil Hogan

An in-house study is being carried out by the engineering staff in my Department and Irish Water to see what can be done about particular categories of apartments and shared service connections and about how we can actually meter those properties more quickly than we anticipated. We are expecting to be able to meter some of those properties in 2015. Arising from the survey carried out by local authorities, Irish Water and ourselves we now expect approximately 48,000 of the properties to be metered. It has nothing to do with the ambitious metering programme for straightforward domestic dwellings. It is to examine how we can bring more meters into play in apartments as well as to examine the problems associated with shared connections. We have identified that there are approximately 300,000 of these properties and we believe in 2015 between 48,000 and 50,000 of these can be metered.

If a dwelling is not metered the occupant will be on an assessed charge in the meantime. Then, when the dwelling becomes metered the occupant will be in a position to pay according to the meter. As the Deputy is aware, we will be considering the issue of a rebate for people who believe their assessed charge was far higher than the subsequent metered charge.

Deputy Barry Cowen

Some moments ago I detailed many questions in response to the Minister's answer. I hope the record of the House will show, list and detail those questions. The Minister has said that the problem has become apparent to him to such an extent that he has had to initiate a new study to address the prospect of many houses not being metered. The Minister has only now or recently acknowledged that number is far more than had been envisaged.

Despite the huge expense and great cost to the taxpayer of establishing the quango that is Irish Water, the bonus-driven culture that exists within it and the amount given to many consultants for expertise which we were led to believe was already within Bord Gáis but which actually was not, here we are again today being informed of more expenditure-----

Deputy Phil Hogan

It is not more expenditure.

Deputy Barry Cowen

-----in a similar fashion to that which caused the debacle in January. Have we learned nothing during this sorry process over the past three years? We have learned doubly nothing since January. I am very disappointed and perturbed to hear today, four months after the debacle in January, that more funds are being expended on consultants in an effort to establish how they might set a charge on those properties which cannot be metered. It is truly amazing.

Deputy Phil Hogan

If the Deputy wants to tell lies about what I said, he can do so.

Deputy Barry Cowen

I asked direct questions so the Minister might respond to them in writing.

Deputy Phil Hogan

There is no need for further consultants to do this work. It is an in-house job involving Irish Water and the Department. This is what we will do. For the Deputy's information, we spent €12 million on consultants and not €85 million. One needs hardware and software to establish a new business.

Deputy Barry Cowen

It most definitely was €85 million.

Deputy Brian Stanley

Outsourcing.

Deputy Phil Hogan

If the Deputy wants to believe his own rhetoric, that is fine. We have already made savings of €120 million with regard to setting up the new entity compared to the traditional model of delivering water. We will have one entity rather than 34 local authorities. In time, people will see that the savings we make will be put into the provision of essential water supplies in a better capital programme. The Deputy can tell this to the people of Greystones in north Wicklow who are suffering today because of another inferior system failing in the Roundwood plant, which is in urgent need of investment. We will get on with borrowing money from the markets to double the level of investment and spend an enormous amount of money in the coming years on building up and sorting out a system in which Fianna Fáil under-invested. The Deputy is on record as being in favour of the proposal to establish a semi-State company-----

Deputy Barry Cowen

Not the quango that is Irish Water.

Deputy Phil Hogan

-----and he is on record as being in favour of water charges, which I welcome.

Deputy Barry Cowen

I have no problem with the concept but the pipes have not been fixed yet.

Deputy Brian Stanley

In Esker Hills and Oakleaf Place in Portlaoise and in parts of Portarlington, meters that were fitted in recent years are being ripped out. This includes the meter boxes, which turned out to be the wrong size to take the new meters being fitted now by Uisce Éireann. Is Minister aware of this?

Who will check the meter afterwards to see whether there are leaks and who will pay the cost of the leaks? In the Dublin area and other counties this cost will be picked up by the local authority.

Building control officers have done a good job to ensure the infrastructure in local authority estates being taken in charge is up to scratch. In the case of a new estate being taken in charge, will Uisce Éireann sign off on it? Will it be done through the local authority under the service level agreement or must it go through big bureaucracy in Dublin again? Will the Minister explain this?

Deputy Clare Daly

The Minister made the point that in his opinion a charge on the basis of usage is the fairest way. Does he not think the fairest way is to treat water as a public service which should be funded by our central taxation system on a progressive basis, with people consuming it based on their needs? Is he aware of international studies which reveal that the impact of the installation of water meters on consumption is a reduction of approximately 10% and that an equivalent reduction could be achieved through an education programme? The only purpose of installing a meter is to isolate the individual household supply to tee it up for privatisation in future.

Deputy Mick Wallace

The Minister keeps talking about the inferior system and blames the previous Government for doing nothing about it. Would it not have been better business for the Government to fix the leaks in the pipes before it put in meters? Surely it would have been a better business plan. When I put this to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, in 2012 he stated that the pipes would be fixed before meters were installed, but this is not what has happened.

A company is installing Irish Water meters. Does the Minister have any concerns that the subcontractors working for the main company pay their workers below the rate? Is it a concern for the State if it is employing a company which is in turn employing subcontractors whose workers are paid below the rate? Does the Minister have direct input to this?

Deputy Phil Hogan

To answer the last question first, if Deputy Wallace can bring to my attention any specific examples in which subcontractors are not paying the proper rate I will be glad to investigate them.

It will require €10 billion over the next 12 years to repair the leaking system we have. There has been under-investment over the years. A total of €120 million will be spent between last year, this year and next year as part of the pipe rehabilitation network in places such as Roundwood and Ballymore Eustace, and we need to spend more to deal with the Victorian pipe network which has not been touched in the past 110 years.

To answer Deputy Daly, the minute meters have been installed in the group water sector and businesses there has been a 15% reduction in consumption. There is a demand-led solution and a supply-side solution. We have evidence of this. We do not have the evidence the Deputy mentioned.

Deputy Clare Daly

You do, actually.

Deputy Phil Hogan

If Deputy Clare Daly wants to propose cutting budgets for housing, health, education or social protection to provide more capital funding for water, let her make this proposal. We have finite resources.

Deputy Clare Daly

Tax a few multinationals.

Deputy Phil Hogan

Otherwise we will have to increase income tax on workers. Is this what the Deputy advocates?

Deputy Clare Daly

Maybe a few multinationals might pay a few bob.

Deputy Phil Hogan

Perhaps she advocates more taxes on the so-called working person whose side she is on, as she has clearly indicated over the years.

Deputy Clare Daly

Those on six-figure salaries, yes.

Deputy Phil Hogan

The matters raised by Deputy Stanley are operational matters.

Deputy Brian Stanley

That is a poor answer. Do not give me that.

Deputy Phil Hogan

How does the Deputy expect me to know what is going on in Esker Hills? Ask Deputy Cowen - he lives nearer.

Deputy Brian Stanley

They are ripping out new meters. I asked three questions.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I will not get involved in answering questions on operational matters in the House-----

Deputy Brian Stanley

Who checks the meters?

Deputy Phil Hogan

-----and the Deputy should not insult the intelligence of people by expecting me to know the answer. A first fix policy will be implemented by the Government-----

Deputy Brian Stanley

Who checks the meters for leaks?

Deputy Phil Hogan

The Deputy asked a question about this. Let me answer it. Under the capital programme we will examine introducing a first fix free policy with regard to the area between the boundary of the property and the house, because people should not have to pay for legacy issues such as leaks for which they had no direct responsibility. Protocols have been worked out between Irish Water and local authorities with regard to unfinished estates to ensure matters are not held up. There are a number of issues with unfinished estates, as my colleague will point out, with regard to receiverships, liquidations and legal issues, but with regard to water-----

Deputy Brian Stanley

Who signs off on the water network in an estate? Is it Uisce Éireann or the local authority?

Deputy Phil Hogan

Irish Water and local authorities are working out a protocol, which will be resolved in the near future.

National Spatial Strategy

Seán Kyne

Question:

10. Deputy Seán Kyne asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government if a review of the national spatial strategy will be undertaken to reflect the different circumstances and challenges facing different regions; the timescale of such a review if one is planned; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19568/14]

Deputy Seán Kyne

Is it intended to review the national spatial strategy and, if so, what is the timescale?

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

The 2002 national spatial strategy, NSS, was Ireland’s first national strategic spatial planning framework. It aimed to provide the spatial vision and principles to achieve a better balance of social, economic and physical development and population growth between regions through the co-ordinated development of nine gateway cities and towns and nine hub towns, together with complementary policies to activate the potential for lasting economic development in their hinterlands and wider regions.

While the existing NSS remains in place, I and my colleague the Minister, Deputy Hogan, established in August 2013 a successor national spatial strategy scoping group, comprising three experts with extensive experience of spatial planning and economic and social development, to prepare a short scoping report on the development of a new national planning framework to replace the current NSS.

I received the experts’ scoping report earlier this year and I intend to bring proposals to Government shortly on the road map to develop a new national planning framework that will take account, inter alia, of the significantly changed economic circumstances the country now faces with a view to contributing to sustainable national recovery. The new national planning framework is expected to be finalised by the end of 2015.

Deputy Seán Kyne

I thank the Minister of State for her reply. Did the old national spatial strategy work? Did it deliver what was planned? Galway is a gateway city and we have seen the importance of major cities as economic drivers for regions. The Galway hinterland includes Connemara and people who have traditionally worked in Galway city but live in a rural area. The importance of the gateway as an economic driver needs to be further developed. Foreign direct investors see Galway city as important with regard to a critical mass of population for employment of trained individuals.

The past week has seen contracts signed in respect of the M17-M18 motorway, which will be a great help to the regions and to the west, as well as developments regarding the Government's policy on broadband in that area. While these measures all are important, the importance of the gateways as economic drivers for the regions must be supported fully.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

It is early days as the Government only has to hand the scoping document at present. However, anyone who agrees with and seeks good and proper planning would accept the concept of gateways and the idea of having regions with centres as important economic drivers of those regions as being important principles that work in all countries and which would be a basis of good planning. I do not anticipate any change in direction in respect of having such gateway entrances or centres of economic activity for regions that will work with the economic hinterland surrounding them. However, the Government intends to have wide consultation with all interested parties, including both the public and significant organisations that have an interest in this area. The Government intends to have a conversation on how the country has changed and on whether there are lessons to be learned from the previous strategy, as well as from actions that were taken subsequent to the previous strategy such as the decentralisation policy, which did not appear to relate greatly to what actually was contained in the national spatial strategy. It is important to have a good national spatial plan that works for the country, that identifies the strengths of different regions, that develops those strengths and has a plan and a policy that is clear and which links into all the other agencies of the State, Departments and so on in order that there is a coherent policy and planning basis on which the country will be developed into the future.

Deputy Seán Kyne

I thank the Minister of State for her statement and welcome her views. At present, 50% of the country's population resides in the Leinster area. The challenge ahead will be to prevent that area from growing further at the expense of the regions and, consequently, the future spatial strategy will be of great importance to the future of the west. I welcome the consultation and again welcome the Minister of State's understanding of the importance of the gateways.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

Briefly, I agree with the Deputy that there always is a danger in any country that the capital city becomes the centre and the regions are not supported adequately. I certainly share the Deputy's view that one must ensure the strategy contains strong recognition that strong regions are needed throughout the country, west, north, south and east-----

Deputy Brian Stanley

And the midlands.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

-----and that policies are put in place to ensure those strengths are developed.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

As Question No. 11 is in the name of Deputy Patrick O'Donovan, who is not present, it cannot be taken.

Question No. 11 replied to with Written Answers.

Semi-State Bodies Privatisation

Mick Wallace

Question:

12. Deputy Mick Wallace asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government if he has received correspondence from the European Commission regarding the privatisation of water services here; if he will publish any such correspondence; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19460/14]

Deputy Mick Wallace

Given that the Government is due to finalise water charges soon, will the Minister confirm whether he or any other member of the Cabinet has received correspondence from the European Commission regarding the privatisation of water services? The Minister may recall that in late 2012, the office of Commissioner Olli Rehn acknowledged in a letter to civil society groups that the Commission is promoting water privatisation as a condition of bailout programmes.

Deputy Phil Hogan

The programme of financial support with the EU, IMF and ECB provided for the establishment of a national water utility and the introduction of domestic charges. In this regard, the programme partners were kept informed of progress towards the achievement of these objectives. My Department has not received any correspondence from the European Commission on the privatisation of water services.

In a communication issued by the European Commission earlier this year on the European citizens’ initiative, the Commission confirmed that the decision on how best to operate water services is firmly in the hands of the public authorities in the member states, and treaty rules require the European Union to remain neutral regarding national decisions governing the ownership regime for water undertakings.

Section 5 of the Water Services Act 2013 provides that one share in Irish Water is held by Bord Gáis, with the remaining shares held by the Ministers for the Environment, Community and Local Government and Finance. An amendment to this section, introduced by section 46 of the Water Services (No. 2) Act 2013, provides that the three shareholders in Irish Water are prohibited from alienating the shares issued to them. Accordingly, the privatisation of Irish Water is barred by statute.

Deputy Mick Wallace

I was referring to a letter to which the Corporate Europe Observatory body gained access. It was from Olli Rehn's office to the Greek Minister for the Environment, Energy and Climate Change.

Deputy Phil Hogan

To whom is the Deputy referring?

Deputy Mick Wallace

Olli Rehn's office in the European Commission wrote to the Greek Minister. He stated:

As you know, privatisation of public companies contributes to the reduction of public debt, as well as to the reduction of subsidies, other transfers or state guarantees to state-owned enterprises. It also has the potential of increasing the efficiency of companies and, by extension, the competitiveness of the economy as a whole, while attracting foreign direct investment.

The Minister states that neither he nor his Department has received any letter from the Commission encouraging the privatisation of water. Has there been verbal communication from the European officials who have visited here to encourage the Government to privatise Irish Water?

Deputy Barry Cowen

He needs no encouragement.

Deputy Mick Wallace

What is the Minister's personal position regarding the idea of privatising Irish Water? Does he believe it would be a good or a bad idea?

Deputy Phil Hogan

Deputy Wallace can go to Kilmore Quay and fish for that red herring which he has tried to introduce today. I brought in the Irish Water legislation, which was approved on the basis that the Government will not privatise Irish Water. The Government is trying to keep track of its own correspondence and, in the Republic of Ireland, we do not follow or track correspondence between Olli Rehn and other member states.

Deputy Mick Wallace

In his initial reply, the Minister stated it is illegal for the European Commission to take a position on this matter but it has done so. In addition, it has put pressure on both the Italians and the Portuguese to do this. While the Minister has stated it would be illegal to privatise Irish Water at present, he is aware that the rules introduced under the Lisbon and Nice treaties dictate that no state in Europe can stop privatisation if it chooses to get involved in it.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

We are a sovereign nation.

Deputy Mick Wallace

Part of the treaty was designed to facilitate the privatisation of public services. The Minister probably can tell me that it will not be privatised during his time-----

Deputy Phil Hogan

Correct.

Deputy Mick Wallace

-----because he probably will be going to sunnier climates soon-----

Deputy Phil Hogan

Is the Deputy asking my opinion? I do not know where he will be.

Deputy Mick Wallace

-----but I find it hard to credit. I refer to the entire idea behind not giving the local authorities the money to improve the water infrastructure but instead parcelling it all up into a nice little bundle that can be saleable at a later date.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Thank you, Deputy.

Deputy Mick Wallace

The dogs in the street suspect that the next Government will privatise Irish Water.

Deputy Phil Hogan

While Deputy Wallace may kick any dog he wishes in respect of this issue, he is not getting anywhere with it. The position of the Government is that there will be no privatisation of Irish Water. Perhaps the Deputy may support a Government in the future that may wish to do so or do certain things, but as far as I am concerned and as far as the Government is concerned, correspondence of the European Commission is a complete red herring and I wish the Deputy well with it.

Written Answers follow Adjournment.