Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 1 Jun 2016

Vol. 911 No. 2

Adjournment Debate

Insurance Industry

Deputy Alan Farrell

That was terribly efficient; it was like a nightclub at 2 a.m. for a moment. I thank the Ceann Comhairle for his forbearance on this Adjournment matter, which was tabled last week but directed to the incorrect Department. I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, for taking the issue and I congratulate him on his appointment. The purpose of this Adjournment debate on insurance premiums is primarily to highlight something which has been in the public domain for several months following annual increases in insurance premiums across the board. The CSO's consumer price index for April of this year shows that, across many different sectors, the cost of insurance premiums has increased in the past month and the past year. Nowhere is this increase more evident than in the motor car insurance sector, where in the 12 months up to April 2016, there was a 34.5% increase. In fact, there was an increase of 3.4% in insurance relating to motor cars in the month between March and April 2016 alone. Many questions must be asked of the insurance industry as to how it can justify such an increase in one year alone. It is difficult to believe it is plausible that such an increase benefits the consumer impacted, and for this reason I believe it is warranted that the Government establish an investigation, primarily through the Department of Finance, into the insurance industry in this regard.

While the motor insurance sector has seen the most significant increases in the past year, it must be noted that, from what I could determine, all insurance categories, apart from health and travel insurance, increased. Health insurance decreased by 0.5%, which is negligible, and travel insurance decreased by almost 6%. Insurance connected with the dwelling rose by 10%, motor car insurance increased by 34.5% and motor cycle insurance increased by 6%. On the basis of the increase in insurance costs, it would be wholly justified for the Government to establish an investigation into the insurance sector. This could be done by the Department of Finance, the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation or the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, and I will leave this matter for the Minister of State to determine. We must ensure that customers get the best value for money while receiving comprehensive protection.

The question must be asked as to whether insurance companies are operating like a cartel. For example, in 2015, Aviva Ireland had its best performance in five years, according to its chief executive. As reported in its financial results, Aviva Ireland's operating profit, excluding non-insurance activity, stood at €91.2 million. This is an increase of 32% on the €69 million operating profit which existed in 2014. In fact, Aviva acknowledged that its general insurance business gross written premium grew by €48 million year on year while its customer numbers grew by 6%. This is not to draw attention to one company specifically, but merely to use it as an example. Another example is RSA, which RTE reported reduced its operating loss in its Irish operations from £97 million in 2014 to £26 million in 2015. This morning, I received a particular example from a constituent in Swords. A 37 year old male with eight years no claims bonus and three penalty points received a renewal quote from FBD for €445 in 2015, and his insurance renewal quote this year was 90% higher, at €845. Since that correspondence, the company has offered an intermediary level of €745, which is €100 less. This is a paltry gesture given the 90% increase.

David Barniville, senior counsel and chairman of the Bar Council, wrote an article in The Irish Times last Friday. Ironically, if the Adjournment debate had been taken last week it would have informed the article a little more. He highlighted the issue I have just outlined with regard to legal costs. I have done a great deal of research, which I will happily give to the Minister of State, which indicates legal costs have increased by only 1%, so the justification the insurance industry is giving is completely erroneous, with 35% in one example.

The Government levy increases premiums and I accept there are other capitalisation issues, but the Book of Quantum of InjuriesBoard.ie, which was established to reduce costs for the insurance sector and the end user has not been updated in almost a decade. It is in the process of doing so, which is a welcome step. The problem is the insurance industry will not share information with the injuries board and it cannot make a determination which will ultimately lower costs.

Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Eoghan Murphy)

I thank Deputy Farrell for his comments and for raising this important issue this evening. I welcome the opportunity to discuss the issue of insurance costs. I am aware of the concerns of Deputy Farrell and concerns throughout the House about the increasing cost of insurance. It is an issue of concern for individuals, households and businesses throughout the country.

Consumers, be they individuals or businesses, need to have access at a reasonable cost to the insurance products they require. Healthy competition within the insurance industry should facilitate this, and with regard to competition, the National Competitiveness Council has emphasised that a resilient and well-functioning insurance sector contributes to economic activity and financial stability.

It is important that Ireland has an insurance sector that is not only financially stable but contributes to economic activity. The insurance sector makes a vital contribution to the Irish economy, through employment, attracting global capital and serving the needs of consumers.

In general, a number of factors drive the cost of insurance. Differing reasons have been put forward by various interested parties to explain Ireland's increasing insurance costs. Motor insurance, as the Deputy pointed out, appears to be particularly affected, with the cost of premiums increasing by more than 34% in the past 12 months.

To examine these issues in more detail, the Minister for Finance has asked his officials to undertake a review of policy in the insurance sector. This is being undertaken in consultation with the Central Bank of Ireland, other Government Departments, agencies and interested bodies. The objective of the review is to recommend measures to improve the functioning and regulation of the insurance sector.

The first phase of the review, which is nearing completion, is concentrating on an examination of the framework for motor insurance compensation in Ireland after the failure of Setanta. This work is being conducted by a joint working group comprising officials of the Department of Finance and the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport. The outcome of this work will feed into the wider review of policy in the insurance sector.

The availability of relevant and timely data to facilitate an in-depth analysis of the issues is also a matter to be addressed in the review, as the current lack of data presents difficulties from a policy analysis and development perspective, and the Deputy referred to this in his contribution. As the National Competitiveness Council report on insurance states, it is important to obtain data forensically because so many elements contribute to insurance costs. The Department of Finance is working closely with the Central Bank of Ireland and has met a number of stakeholders, including the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation and the injuries board. The Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation has advised that the injuries board expects to have the revised Book of Quantum ready as soon as possible. While the review will examine the issues, it then will be necessary to approach the relevant areas to ascertain where improvements can be made that can feed into reducing the cost of insurance.

It is important to note it will continue to be the case that insurance premiums will be priced individually by insurers, which use a combination of rating factors in making their individual decisions on whether to offer cover and what terms might apply. While insurance premiums cannot be directly influenced, and the Government cannot interfere in how insurance companies price their insurance products, this does not preclude the Government from introducing measures that could, in the longer term, lead to a better claims environment that could facilitate a reduction in claims costs.

Officials will continue to work on the review of policy over the coming months and the work is expected to be completed by the end of this year. I would very much appreciate the opportunity to examine with the Deputy his research and the figures he has shared with the House and submit them to the ongoing review, if it will help in its work, and in completing it as soon as possible.

Hospital Services

Deputy Brian Stanley

I am glad to have an opportunity to raise this issue. I congratulate the Minister, Deputy Harris, on his appointment. It is a challenging brief and this is the first time I have had an opportunity to address him and I wish him well in it.

The report on the future of services at Midlands Regional Hospital, Portlaoise was to be completed last September.

We have waited long and hard for that publication. I believe it was finished months ago, but two weeks after the new Government was formed we were told that a draft report had been completed and sent to senior management at the HSE. General practitioners in and the people of County Laois, public representatives and I are very concerned about this issue, as are people living in surrounding counties, including south Kildare where the Ceann Comhairle lives and from where a lot of people using the hospital come. GPs have been made aware of the contents of the draft report and issued a lengthy response on it. I will not read everything they state, but they make a number of important points. They say it contains proposals to downgrade the hospital and that will exacerbate the negative patient experience in the region and result in needless and untimely deaths. They say there is no capacity to facilitate patients in any other centre. I am abbreviating what they say in the interests of time and because of my voice problem. They say they are receiving letters from hospitals fortnightly telling them not to refer patients to emergency departments because they do not have the capacity to deal with them. They say the plan is reckless in the extreme and shows no regard for patient safety. They outline the knock-on effects on other services at the hospital such as paediatric, maternity and mental health services. There has been a spike in the latter in County Laois. They say the plan will impact on the number presenting with self-harm. They also outline the difficulties regarding the effects on primary care services and say the MIDOC service is overburdened and that they have difficulty in filling shifts.

I have met the GPs many times, individually and collectively, and they are professional and responsible and not prone to exaggerating. I am not exaggerating. I attended the emergency department about six months ago and saw at first hand the pressure that it was under. The people living in County Laois and south Kildare and women from County Offaly who attend the maternity unit see the pressure it is under. I want the Minister to explain this to me and I say it with all sincerity: if the emergency department in Portlaoise is already one of the busiest outside Dublin and the departments in Tullamore and Naas cannot cope with their current workloads, where will the 38,000 or so patients who attend the emergency department in Portlaoise annually go? Is he aware that the ambulance service in the region is stretched to breaking point? How would patients in a critical condition be transferred to other hospitals? This is a point I raised at a meeting with the Minister's predecessor, Deputy Leo Varadkar, with other public representatives last year. I asked him, as I ask the Minister, whether he had spoken to the Minister for Justice and Equality and the Minister for Defence about the cost and the logistics of mobilising police and military convoys to transfer high security prisoners from Portlaoise Prison to hospitals in other counties and Dublin? This is a big issue. As of now they cross the road and there is a secure holding area in the hospital. Protocols are in place and there is very little mobilisation as the hospital is located only a few hundred yards away from the prison. This will be a real problem for the Irish Prison Service, the Department of Defence and the policing service which is already stretched. I put the same issue to the Minister and know that he will have a scripted response written by officials.

I am sorry about the temporary problem with my voice, but I raise this issue out of huge concern. If I was never a public representative or a member of a political party, I would be trying to do something about it. It is a serious issue. This is the second busiest emergency department in Ireland. The Minister is a fresh pair of hands and I really want him to consider this issue. He should not let officials in the HSE lead him by the nose. He should get a grip on the issue.

Minister for Health (Deputy Simon Harris)

I thank the Deputy for raising this important matter and particularly for getting his point across, despite the difficulties with his voice. First, I reassure him that I am committed to securing and further developing the role of Portlaoise hospital as a constituent hospital of the Dublin Midlands Hospital Group. The most important consideration in any proposed change to services at the hospital is that patient safety and the outcome for patients must come first. As the Deputy knows, there have been a number of reports on the hospital in recent years. These reports have pointed to the need for the reconfiguration of some services to ensure patients are treated in the most appropriate setting by specialist staff who can safely meet their needs.

Since 2014 the focus has been on supporting the hospital to develop and enhance management capability, implementing changes required to address clinical service deficiencies and incorporating the hospital into the existing governance structures within the Dublin Midlands Hospital Group. Governance and management arrangements in Portlaoise hospital services have been strengthened, clinical staffing numbers increased and staff training, hospital culture and hospital communications improved. Service improvements include a number of additional consultant posts within the hospital, including in anaesthetics, surgery, emergency medicine, paediatrics and obstetrics, as well as additional physician and midwifery posts. Furthermore, investment in patient quality and safety, complaints management and patient engagement has also occurred in the past two years.

The Dublin Midlands Hospital Group has recently produced a draft plan for clinical service delivery at Portlaoise hospital. The draft plan has been discussed with my Department and is the subject of further work and consideration within the HSE. I stress that it is a draft plan with much further work to be done from the HSE's perspective. Any potential change to services at Portlaoise hospital, including plans for service reconfiguration, will be undertaken in a planned and orderly manner and take account of current use of services, as the Deputy asks; demands in other hospitals - another point he made - and the need to develop particular services in Portlaoise in the context of the overall service provided by the Dublin Midlands Hospital Group. The important point to note is that this work is being done to strengthen services in Portlaoise from a patient safety and quality perspective and ensure the services currently provided in the hospital are safe, adequately resourced and developed based on health needs. I will keep the Deputy and other Oireachtas Members in the Laois constituency informed on this matter.

Industrial Disputes

An Ceann Comhairle

The third Adjournment Debate matter is in the name of Deputy Anne Rabbitte and concerns staff safety and industrial relations at Oberstown Youth Detention Centre in County Dublin.

Deputy Anne Rabbitte

I thank the Minister for taking the time at this late hour to address my question and look forward to working with her and putting children at the centre of our briefs. I come to her with an issue that is live and very real for the people who work in and the patients who are inmates or service users of the Oberstown centre. Just before I came into the House, I heard of another crisis. A young child has escaped from Unit 9 and is on the roof of one of the buildings.

Both the unions and Oberstown centre management have agreed to talks at the Workplace Relations Commission next Wednesday, which is to be welcomed. However, I find the approach the Minister has adopted in response to the work stoppage concerning. I read in The Irish Times yesterday that there was no basis for this industrial action to take place. If it were a dispute about pay, I would have no issues with it. The Minister will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe there is no basis for this action under the Lansdowne Road agreement.

Because I am new to my role, I have looked at what has been going on regarding the Oberstown centre in the past 12 months. It appears that my colleague, Deputy Robert Troy, who has moved to a different post has been raising the issue since last year. Last July there were a number of incidents. A number of different children escaped and there was a report of a stabbing incident there. The issues raised by the workers are of real concern. This is their cry for help. This is how they are managing to gain attention - bringing matters to the fore by holding stoppages. They are very genuine. Health and safety at the Oberstown centre are the kernel of the issue.

Staff who, I can assure the Minister, are dedicated to their job complain they are massively overburdened and simply do not have time to build personal relationships of trust with the children in their care. There have been a number of violent incidents which I have referred to, and last summer there were security issues.

It certainly seems the case that not enough was done to ensure the Oberstown facility was fully operational and staff were properly trained prior to the intake of 17 year olds from St. Patrick's and Wheatfield last year. Between March and July last year, nine female and 22 male staff suffered injuries, including concussion, nerve damage, throat injury, stabbings and bites. More assaults have taken place since then.

The unions, IMPACT and SIPTU, state the four-hour stoppage was carried out on Tuesday and staff and residents at this centre are exposed to daily risks of violent assault. That is their cry for help. The care workers and other employees took part in industrial action from 8 a.m. to 12 p.m. over what they say is poor safety measures and an increasing number of assaults on the campus.

The campus caters for 48 teenagers under the age of 18 and the union states that 100 violent incidents occurred at Oberstown last year, almost half of which were classified as critical. Due to management inaction on procedures, many staff at Oberstown feel that the centre is no longer based on a child care model and has become a containment facility.

Last year Deputy Troy wrote to the then Minister, now Senator James Reilly, on the matter, referring to the severe staff shortages and the lack of standardisation of workplace practices within Oberstown. Yesterday, I noted that the manager of Oberstown said that a recruitment drive is under way to increase staffing levels and that there has been investment in protection equipment. That was highlighted last July, this is 1 June and we are still looking at recruiting the staff.

The care workers who work there every day say that health and safety is the issue, and it clearly is. We are supposed to be encouraging the children and teens attending the service to return to the community as part of their rehabilitation. However, yesterday morning, we closed the doors and locked them away. While we have had fine days here in Dublin and the sun has been out, everybody in the centre had to endure the same lockdown again for health and safety reasons because the staff had to try to retrieve a young man off a roof.

Those same children have been locked away twice, and this was not the choice of the care workers. The stoppage is their way of highlighting to the Minister and to me the issues in Oberstown. I plead with the Minister to listen sensitively to the workers and take all on board. Let us try to put the ethos of what we want, what is best for these young teens, at the centre of it. These teens have the right to rehabilitation and to intervention in order that they can get back into the community. They have been removed from Wheatfield and St. Patrick's to ensure that.

Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (Deputy Katherine Zappone)

I thank Deputy Anne Rabbitte for raising this issue. It is our first exchange and I appreciate her contribution. We are at one in our concern about the ethos of which she spoke.

As Minister with responsibility for children and young people, I am committed, first and foremost, to the provision of an appropriate, safe and secure environment for children in custody on the Oberstown campus. These children are cared for by staff who deserve to have a safe working environment.

I can tell from Deputy Rabbitte's remarks that we would agree that detention is intended to be a last resort for children. It is justified when it works effectively for both the children who are detained in Oberstown and the personnel who are responsible for their care.

It has been Government policy in recent years to end the practice of detaining children in adult prison facilities. This policy has had cross-party support. Until now 17 year old boys serving a sentence have been sent to prison, but later this year we will finally end this practice. They will instead be sent to Oberstown. It is not a prison. It is a children detention centre. To achieve this, we are recruiting additional care staff, as Deputy Rabbitte refers. I hope all Members of this House and our predecessors who have advocated for an end to the detention of children in adult prisons will take comfort in that fact that we have moved to a more enlightened way of working with children in custody. In recent years a reform programme has been under way to make this a reality and I acknowledge the contribution of our staff in Oberstown and thank them for that. They have played a key role in delivering this change.

In addition, there has been a substantial capital investment programme in new detention buildings, the gradual transfer of responsibility for older boys to the site, legislative reform under the Children (Amendment) Act 2015, and the first programme of staff recruitment on the campus in a number of years. Important governance reforms have also been undertaken, including the establishment of shared services across the campus, a single human resource team and training office under a single campus director.

The issues that have been mentioned in the current industrial dispute, and Deputy Rabbitte referred to several of them, include effective practices for managing the behaviour of children in custody, staff safety, the management of the transition of children from the adult prison system to Oberstown and the design of new detention buildings. I welcome that management and staff are now engaging on these and other issues at the Workplace Relations Commission. I intend to monitor closely the progress of discussions, but Deputies will appreciate that this dispute has to be resolved through direct engagement between the parties. It is my sincere hope that there will be no further recourse to industrial action while the conciliation process at the Workplace Relations Commission is under way. In particular, as I am sure Deputy Rabbitte agrees, I hope that children in Oberstown who are facing into exams can concentrate on these without other distractions.

An adult prison and a children detention school are based on different foundations. In Oberstown, there is an emphasis on training in behaviour management programmes that de-escalate and, where possible, avoid crises involving the behaviour of children. I condemn any and all incidents resulting in assault and injury to staff. There is no acceptable level of violent behaviour in a children detention school. Children are assessed daily for all forms of risk, and policies and procedures are continually reviewed with the aim of ensuring safe and secure custody for children and the safety of staff. Unfortunately, the risk of injury cannot be excluded completely given the nature of a children detention school. A specific employee assistance programme is in place to assist members of staff on foot of any such incident where required. Staff are fully supported where incidents have to be investigated by the Garda authorities.

The original physical design of the new units was developed through a series of consultative meetings with both staff and management in the children detention school. The consensus design recommendations were taken on board. Work is ongoing to address lessons learned from the operation of the new facilities over the first 12 to 15 months of their use. I assure the House that health and safety issues are a top priority for the campus, and further works are planned with the assistance of the Office of Public Works to enhance physical and building security.

I am describing the scale of the reform programme that is under way in Oberstown. There is a need for time, a supportive policy climate, an adequate level of resources and continued staff and management engagement to bed down the reforms and to ensure the new Oberstown campus operates successfully into the future. A positive work climate for staff on the Oberstown campus in the future is an absolute necessity. I am committed to this and to a future for children in custody that is modern and that serves children and society well.

Fishing Industry

Deputy Thomas Pringle

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this Adjournment debate in the House. As it is my first engagement with the Minister officially here in the House, I congratulate him on his appointment and wish him well in his work within the Department.

It is timely that this Adjournment debate has been taken today given the announcement earlier today by the Minister that there have been moves on SI 125 of 2016 relating to court cases. The Minister outlined that the statutory instrument will be amended to facilitate the sequential application of EU points in conjunction with the prosecution process.

It is a very welcome intervention by the Department and a confirmation that the system was not fit for purpose initially. It will go a long way towards satisfying many of the requirements of fishermen and fishing communities to ensure the points system works properly.

The points system was introduced in 2014 as a statutory instrument, which was struck down in the courts here in January or February. At that time, the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine debated the statutory instrument and identified many of the problems recognised by the courts. The points system could have been made much more robust to meet the requirements. Although nobody likes points to be implemented, fishing communities recognise the need for a points system and that it will be in operation. The key is to ensure it operates fairly for everybody involved, it is clear and concise and everybody knows what is involved and how it will work in the future. It has potentially very serious implications for the livelihoods of fishermen and the viability of fishing businesses if points can be attached in a way that is not totally clear and understandable to everybody involved. The principle that, if a prosecution takes place and the courts decide no offence happened, the points are not assigned is a very welcome and positive contribution.

There remain some problems with the statutory instrument and how it has been established. Based on consultations I have had on the court case and the workings of the new statutory instrument, it could still be potentially problematic. A fishing licence might have points applied without being followed by a prosecution. In this case, the points might stand and the statutory instrument might lead to complications in that, if there is no court case, there is no chance of the points being rescinded in the event that there is no conviction. If this happens, there could be recourse to the courts.

In the judgment in one of the cases in February, the judge pointed out that the statutory instrument and system, as it stood then, "do not require the Minister to ignore established systems for independent adjudication and recourse to the courts in such matters". There is concern that the 2016 statutory instrument does not include the full recourse to the courts. If it is the case that points will never be assigned where there is no prosecution, maybe it will not arise. Maybe the Minister of State could clarify this and we could put the situation to bed if there is no possibility it could happen.

It is very important the Department is recognising this and I commend the Minister of State on recognising the problems in the system and finding a solution that can work in everybody's favour. There was a very strong feeling among fishing communities that they were being treated differently from everybody else. This has been a common theme through all the fishing legislation, such as the 2006 Act, which criminalised people, whereas across the rest of Europe, the offences were administrative. The feeling must be repaired and this could be a positive step along the road.

Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Michael Creed)

I thank the Deputy for his good wishes. He has always had a keen interest in fisheries matters. In previous debates on the matter, Deputies from Malin Head to Mizen Head and from Hook Head to Clogher Head were exercised by the matter. The Deputy's constituency colleague and my party colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Joe McHugh, also contacted me about the matter. As I said to the various principal officers I met today, I come to this portfolio with not a mile of coast in my constituency. Maybe in some regards this is an advantage in that I come with no baggage. I welcome good counsel on these matters and Deputy Pringle will not be shy in marking my card and giving me a whisper in the ear if I need assistance on these matters.

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue, which gives me an opportunity to update the Dáil on certain matters pertaining to the European Union (Common Fisheries Policy) (Point System) Regulations 2016, SI 125 of 2016. Member States are required, under the 2009 EU Fisheries “Control” Regulation, to assign the appropriate number of points to the licence holder of the vessel concerned every time a serious infringement of the Common Fisheries Policy is committed. Ireland had previously implemented the required EU points system by means of SI 3 of 2014, which was the subject of two recent High Court challenges and was struck down in one of them. The two High Court judgments are subject to appeal.

Given that Ireland is required to have in place a legal instrument implementing the EU points system, a new amended instrument, Sl 125 of 2016, was drafted and signed on 1 March 2016. It took on board, to the extent possible, issues of concern regarding procedures and process which had been highlighted in the High Court cases. Much of the scrutiny regarding SI 125 of 2016 since it came into force stems from the fact that points apply separate to any criminal prosecution or conviction or where a prosecution results in an acquittal. It has been suggested that the EU points system should, instead, be combined with a successful prosecution through the courts. In recent weeks, there have been a number of meetings between me, my predecessor and the fishing industry with regard to the concerns raised. I met with representatives of the fishing industry this morning to discuss a wide range of issues and, in particular, their concerns on the implementation of the EU points system.

On taking office, I requested that the Attorney General consider whether there is a way that the assignment of EU points for the licence holder can await the completion of the prosecution process while at the same time ensuring Ireland is fully in compliance with its obligations under EU law. Further to the programme for Government commitment pertaining to the assignment of points, I quickly sought that advice from the Attorney General as prescribed in the document. Having received this advice, I am satisfied to move on the introduction of a system for the sequential application for EU points in conjunction with the prosecution process, thus fulfilling the ambition outlined in the partnership programme and going to the heart of Deputy Pringle's concerns which he articulated here.

This move is subject to addressing some important legal and administrative issues in order to ensure compliance with EU law. I have listened to the concerns of industry and intend to report back to the Oireachtas as soon as I have finalised a way forward in the context of dealing with the legal and administrative matters that arise. However, I am confident that these matters can be dealt with in a collaborative and constructive manner with all stakeholders. Irish fishermen should be assured that the State is taking seriously their concerns that a fishing industry can be maintained for them and those coming after them. The conservation of fishing resources is in everyone's interest and is vital for the future of the Irish fishing industry. I am confident that the reformed points system that I have announced will play a vital role in acting as an effective sanction against the minority who break the rules, protecting the vast majority of our law abiding industry and preserving the fishing resources for all fishermen and for future generations.

The Dáil adjourned at 10 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 2 June 2016.