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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 13 Oct 2016

Vol. 924 No. 3

Topical Issue Debate

Scéim na gCúntóirí Teanga

Tá áthas orm gur roghnaíodh an cheist seo. Tá sé curtha síos agam le coicíos anuas agus anois is féidir linn é a phlé. Mar atá a fhios ag an Aire Stáit, is scéim iontach tábhachtach é scéim na gcúntóirí teanga. Is é príomhchuspóir na scéime ná an Ghaeilge – ár dteanga dhúchais agus céad teanga an Stáit – a neartú mar theanga labhartha i measc aos óg na Gaeltachta. Tá an scéim riartha ag dá eagras thar ceann a Roinne. Is iad san Muintearas Teo. agus Oidhreacht Chorca Dhuibhne Teo. Táim cinnte go n-aontóidh an tAire liom nuair a deirim go ndéanann an dá eagras sin obair ar leith mar chuid dá ról chun an scéim seo a sheachadadh.

Ar ndóigh, agus táim ag labhairt mar dhuine as an Ghaeltacht, níl léamh nó scríobh nó inse béil ar cé chomh fóinteach agus tairbheach é scéim na gcúntoirí teanga agus níl aon dul as againn ach an cuidiú a thugann an tionscnamh do dhaltaí ón Ghaeltacht a aithint ó thaobh sealbhú na teanga agus cothú na Gaeilge.

An fhadhb atá ann, agus tá a fhios ag an Aire Stáit é go damanta maith, ná go bhfuilimid buailte leis an 13 Deireadh Fómhair agus níl an scéim i bhfeidhm go fóill. D'fhág an tAire Stáit go dtí mhí Mheán Fómhair chun an scéim a fhógairt. Ansan nuair a d'fhógair sé an scéim agus chuir sé an t-airgead ar fáíl do na heagraíochtaí, Muintearas Teo. ach go háirithe, ní raibh airgead ar fáil fá choinne an scéim sin a riaradh. Tuigim go bhfuil sé sin ceartaithe anois ag an Aire Stáit agus go bhfuil airgead curtha ar fáil leis an scéim a riaradh. Caithfidh an tAire Stáit admháil, áfach, leis an moill a chuir sé ar an scéim anseo, go bhfuil poist eile faighte ag daoine anois a bhí dífhostaithe nuair a bhí an scoilbhliain thart ag tús an tsamhraidh agus go mbeidh fadhbanna ann cúntóirí teanga a thabhairt isteach chuig chuid de na scoileanna seo.

Ceann de na fadhbanna móra atá fós ann ná gur fhógair an tAire Stáit ar Raidió na Gaeltachta go raibh 13 scoil bhreise le bheith páirteach sa scéim. D'fhógair sé go raibh Pobalscoil na Rossan, Scoil Náisiúnta an Chéidigh, Scoil Náisiúnta Mhín na Gabhann agus Scoil Náisiúnta an Bhrocaigh i mo chontae féin, Tír Chonaill, le bheith páirteach sa scéim úr. Chuir sé fáilte roimhe sin agus chuirimid uilig fáilte roimhe, ach níl sé ag cur ar fáil airgead ar bith go dtí seo chuig na heagraíochtaí leis an scéim sin a riaradh.

An cheist atá agam ar an Aire Stáit inniu ná seo. An bhfuil sé chun an €40,000 – sin an t-airgead atá i gceist agus sin €3,200 ar an mheán do gach scoil – do na 13 scoil sin sa dóigh is go mbeidh cúntóirí teanga sna scoileanna sin mar a d'fhógair sé seachtain ó shin ar Raidió na Gaeltachta?

Aontaím go huile is go hiomlán leis an méid atá ráite ag mo chomhghleacaí, an Teachta Pearse Doherty, fá dtaobh den scéim seo atá chomh tábhachtach don Ghaeltacht agus do na scoileanna éagsúla tríd an Ghaeltacht, go háirithe na cinn i mo chontae dhúchais féin, Dún na nGall. Tá sé tábhachtach do na cúntóirí teanga chomh maith agus ba cheart go mbeadh siadsan sna ranganna ag tús na míosa seo caite.

Cuireadh moill ar an bhfógra ón Aire Stáit. Nuair a rinne sé é i lár mhí Mheán Fómhair, dúirt sé go mbeidh scoil bhreise sa scéim. Dúírt sé é féin é ar Raidió na Gaeltachta agus eisean an Aire Stáit le freagracht as an nGaeltacht. I ndiaidh sin, dúirt duine gur botún a bhí ann agus nach raibh cinnteacht ar bith leis. Más botún a bhí ann agus muna raibh cinnteacht ar bith, rinneadh brachán ceart de seo. Tá súil agam go mbeidh dea-scéal aige inniu, go mbeidh an airgead breise ann chun an scéim a riaradh agus go mbeidh na scoileanna breise, mar a dúirt an Teachta Ó Dochartaigh, Pobalscoil na Rosann, Scoil Náisiúnta an Chéidigh, Scoil Náisiúnta an Bhrocaigh agus Scoil Náisiúta Mhín na Gabhann, san áireamh.

Táimid beagnach ag deireadh mhí Dheireadh Fómhair. Beidh briseadh ag teacht ag deireadh na míosa seo agus is dóigh nach mbeidh páistí sna scoileanna go dtí an mhí seo chugainn. Beidh airgead á shábháil ag an Roinn agus b'fhéidir gurb é sin an fáth a cuireadh moill leis seo. Iarraim ar an Aire Stáit a chur in iúl dúinn inniu go mbeidh an scéim seo ag tosú go luath agus go mbeidh daoine á chur faoi agallamh do na ceithre scoil bhreise, chomh maith le scoileanna eile, b'fhéidir, má tá na daoine ar shiúl go dtí jabanna eile. Tá an scéim seo fíor-thábhachtach. Tá sibh ag caint faoi iniúchadh anois. Ceapaimse féin go bhfuilimid ag fáil luach ar ár gcuid airgid agus Muintearas Teo. ag rialú na scéime seo.

Mo bhuíochas don Teachta. Is deas an rud é go bhfuil beagán Gaeilge sa Teach inniu. Anois, fear eile a bhfuil go maith ag an nGaeilge, an tAire Stáit, an Teachta Kyne.

Táim buíoch de na Teachtaí as an ábhar tábhachtach seo a ardú liom. Tá sé ardaithe freisin cheana féin ag mo chomhghleacaí, an tAire Stáit, Teachta Joe McHugh. Bunaíodh scéim na gcúntóirí teanga in 1999 chun an Ghaeilge a Iáidriú mar theanga Iabhartha i measc ghasúir bunscoile, go háirithe chun cuidiú le páistí nach bhfuil an Ghaeilge mar phríomh-theanga acu nó páistí a dteastaíonn tuilleadh cabhrach uathu chun a nGaeilge a shealbhú. Is ar ghníomhaíochtaí a thugann deiseanna chun cur leis an teanga, nó é a shealbhú, go príomha a dhíríonn an scéim. Tógann sé san áireamh scéalaíocht, rannta, drámaí beaga, cluichí, srl. Is mar thacaíocht d’fhoireann teagaisc na scoile a bhíonn siad ag feidhmiú dá réir. Faoi láthair, má theastaíonn ó scoil páirt a ghlacadh sa scéim, ní mór do bhord bainistíochta na scoile iarratas a dhéanamh leis an eagraíocht atá i gceannas na scéime sa cheantar agus an Roinn a bheith sásta gurb í an Ghaeilge teanga teagaisc na scoile.

Mar go raibh an scéim ag díriú orthu siúd nach raibh mórán Gaeilge acu, bhí na scoileanna den tuairim nach raibh mórán buntáistí inti do chainteoirí líofa Gaeilge. Mar thoradh ar an athbhreithniú sin, déantar freastal ar leith ar na páistí a bhfuil an Ghaeilge ar a dtoil acu agus cuirtear breis gníomhaíochtaí faoi leith ar siúl a chuireann le deiseanna saibhrithe teanga.

Cheadaigh mé suim de bheagnach €719,000 don togra seo le déanaí. Cé gur laghdú a bhí anseo ar an méid a ceadaíodh le dhá bhliain anuas, ní raibh aon ghearradh siar déanta ar an mhaoiniú don obair a dhéanann na cúntóirí féin. Is iad na costais riaracháin nach raibh clúdaithe san allúntas sin. Tuigtear dom anois áfach, ó Údarás na Gaeltachta, go bhfuil sé i gceist acu iniúchadh a dhéanamh láithreach ar struchtúr, maoiniú agus feidhmeanna Mhuintearas Teo. Sa chomhthéacs sin, tá cinneadh déanta agam airgead riaracháin a íoc leis an dá eagraíocht don scoilbhliain 2016-17 agus beidh na socruithe sin á gcur i bhfeidhm láithreach. Tá súil agam dá bhrí sin go mbeidh na cúintóirí in ann dul i mbun oibre chomh luath agus is féidir.

Maidir le ceist na scoileanna breise atá luaite ag an Teachta, tá iarrtha agam ar oifig mo Roinne moltaí ina thaobh sin a chur faoi mo bhráid go luath. Tá mé sásta i bprionsabal cúnamh a chur ar fáil i gcás scoileanna breise ag lorg cúntóirí ach gach cás ar leith a bheith pléite agus aontaithe leis an Roinn Oideachais agus Scileanna ar dtús i gcomhthéacs athbhreithniú níos leithne ar an scéim. Is é sin an chaoi a oibríonn rudaí do chuile scoil.

Is fiú a lua chomh maith go bhfuil moltaí polasaí don soláthar oideachais Ghaeltachta curtha ar fáil ag an Roinn Oideachais agus Scileanna. Tá bailchríoch á chur ar an obair sin faoi láthair agus súil go mbeidh sé foilsithe go luath. Tagann scéim na gcúntóirí teanga faoin mbrat seo agus tá sé aontaithe leis an Roinn Oideachais agus Scileanna go ndéanfar athbhreithniú ar scéim na gcúntóirí teanga mar chuid den pholasaí nua seo. Ar ndóigh, bhí sé seo geallta i Straitéis 20 Bliain don Ghaeilge chomh maith.

Mar atá ráite agam, is eol dom gur chuir an tAire Stáit an t-airgead chuig an eagraíocht inné. Tá sé seachtaine caillte ní hamháin ag na páistí seo ó thaobh cúntóirí teanga, ach fosta ag daoine sa Ghaeltacht a bheadh fostaithe dá mbeadh an scéim seo riaraithe mar is ceart. Níl sé maith go leor go raibh an moill sin curtha ar an scéim. Mar a dúirt mé, níl achan duine a bhí ag obair sa scéim sin anuraidh ar fáil i mbliana siocair an moill a cuireadh ar an scéim. Dúirt an tAire Stáit go gcuirfear an t-airgead ar fáil fá choinne an scoilbhliana 2016-17. Caithfimid cinnteacht a fháil i bhfad níos luaithe go mbeidh an tseirbhís seo ar fáil do na scoileanna ag tús mí Mheán Fómhair na bliana seo chugainn nuair atáimid ag tarraingt ar an scoilbhliain 2018-19. I mo thuairim, thug daoine taobh istigh den Roinn eolas contráilte don Aire Stáit maidir leis na scoileanna breise. Rinne an tAire Stáit plé mór i dtaobh an ábhair seo nuair a d'fhógair sé, agus rud maith a bhí ann, go mbeadh 13 scoil bhreise páirteach sa scéim seo. Ní dúirt sé ina fhreagra inniu go mbeidh Pobalscoil na Rossan, Scoil Náisiúnta an Chéidigh, Scoil Náisiúnta Mhín na Gabhann agus Scoil Náisiúnta an Bhrocaigh agus an naoi scoil eile clúdaithe sa scéim seo. Níl ach €40,000 de dhíth. Fágfaidh mé mar seo é. Táimid ag caint ar €40,000 fá choinne na páistí agus na scoileanna seo. Is féidir an t-airgead sin a fháil taobh istigh den Roinn. Níl ach 26 seachtain fágtha. Iarraim ar an Aire Stáit a thuairim a thabhairt dúinn nuair a sheasann sé arís. An mbeidh na scoileanna breise clúdaithe?

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire Stáit fá choinne an eolas a chur sé ar fáil dúinn. Tá cúpla ceist agam go fóill. Cén uair, agus deireadh ag teacht le mí Dheireadh Fómhair, an mbeidh cead tugtha do na cúntóirí teanga dul isteach sna ranganna? Ní thuigim céard a bhí i gceist ag an Aire Stáit nuair a dúirt sé "maidir le ceist na scoileanna breise atá luaite ag an Teachta, tá iarrtha agam ar oifig mo Roinne moltaí ina thaobh sin a chur faoi mo bhráid go luath". Ba é an tAire Stáit a thug ainmneacha na scoileanna nuair a d'fhógair sé an scéim seo ar Raidió na Gaeltachta. Ní miste liom cad a tharla idir an tAire Stáit agus a chuid oifigeach. Chuir an tAire Stáit an t-eolas seo ar fáil. Caithfimid ceacht a fhoglaim ón méid atá tarlaithe. Tá an tAire Stáit sa Roinn seo ar feadh na míonna anois. Caithfimid a chinntiú, is cuma cén Aire nó Aire Stáit a bheidh ann an bhliain seo chugainn, go mbeidh na gcúntóirí teanga ag dul isteach sna scoileanna ag tús mí Mheán Fómhair achan uile bhliain.

Tá an ceart ag an Teachta Doherty go mbeadh sé i bhfad níos fearr dá mbeadh na scéimeanna seo fógartha níos luaithe ná mar a rinneadh sa chás seo. Aontáim leis an Teachta faoi sin. Tá an ceart ag an Teachta Gallagher gur fhógair mé na scoileanna sin ar an raidió. Mar a dúirt mé ina dhiaidh sin, ba cheart dom bheith níos cúramaí ó thaobh an ábhair seo as seo amach. Tá sé ráite liom ag na feidhmeannaigh sa Roinn go bhfuil sé i gceist na scoileanna seo a cheadú. Caithfear cinntiú a fháil ón Roinn Oideachais agus Scileanna gur scoileanna Gaeltachta iad agus go bhfuil siad ag múineadh trí mheán na Gaeilge. Sílim nach mbeidh fadhb ar bith leis sin agus go mbeidh siad in ann dul ar aghaidh. Iarradh orm cén uair a bheidh an t-eolas seo curtha chuig Muintearas. Tuigim go bhfuil sé sin déanta, nó go bhfuil an litir ar an mbealach chun an scéal a shoiléiriú ó thaobh na scoileanna a bhí ar an liosta roimhe seo.

Mar a thuigfidh na Teachtaí go maith, is gá don Roinn agus do gach páirtí leasmhara a chinntiú i rith an ama go bhfuil an luach is fearr ar airgead á fháil againn mar a bhaineann sé le riaradh agus cur i bhfeidhm gach scéim, beartas agus tionscnamh a bhfuil airgead ón Státchiste á chur ar fáil ina leith. Níl aon difríocht sa chás seo. Mar atá ráite agam, tá scéim na gcúntóirí á riaradh le roinnt blianta thar ceann na Roinne ag dhá eagraíocht faoi leith a bhfuil taithí acu sa réimse forbartha pobail agus teanga. Tá obair mhaith déanta agus idir lámha faoi láthair ag an dá eagraíocht sin. Idir mo Roinn agus Údarás na Gaeltachta, tá cúnamh maith curtha ar fáil dóibh cheana féin chun an clár oibre atá faoina gcúram a chur i bhfeidhm. Tá dualgas orainn féachaint chuige go bhfuil an infheistíocht shuntasach sin á bainistiú ar an gcaoi a chinntíonn go bhfuil an tairbhe is fearr ar fáil don Ghaeilge agus do phobal na Gaeltachta. Ná déanaimis dearmad gurb é an cuspóir i gcónaí gach is féidir a dhéanamh lena chinntiú go dtacaíonn an scéim leis an nGaeilge a neartú mar theanga pobail agus teaghlaigh sa Ghaeltacht i gcomhréir le sprioc na straitéise 20 bliain.

Refugee Resettlement Programme

There could hardly have been a more blatant demonstration of the blindness of the warmongers in this House as when the leaders of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael were crying war crimes against Russia and the Syrian Government last week. When the US-led coalition started bombing the daylights out of Syria in September 2014, Deputies had nothing to say, even though the death toll tripled almost immediately. As our trade partner Saudi Arabia, and friends, continue to do daily war crimes in Yemen, indiscriminately killing civilians with tanks, combat aircraft, air to ground missiles, white phosphorous and cluster bombs, sold to them by the United States, Deputies say nothing. The Russians followed in to Syria - about one year after the French and US involvement - in order to boost their friend Bashar al-Assad. We have never, ever defended the Russian position, but neither will we defend the United States', the French or the Saudi position in Syria. I find it nauseating that people in this House will actually select who they will criticise of those who are bombing any country. As a neutral State that does not want to take part in war we should be criticising anyone who bombs anywhere. Last week the Unites States' war in Afghanistan was 15 years old. I was at a commemoration for it in Shannon on Sunday. Ireland has been with the United States every step of the way, bending over backwards for the US war machine. A group of physicists in the United States - because the US military does not count bodies, it is all just collateral damage - have researched statistics that show that up to 2.1 million civilians have been killed by the United States military since 2001 in Afghanistan and Iraq. It is horrific and Ireland has helped the United States with the use of Shannon Airport.

Today, 1,000 unaccompanied minors face eviction from Calais and we are not prepared to help them. I recall Members saying in the House that unaccompanied minors would be picked out for special concern, but we have done nothing about them. To the best of my knowledge there has been just one unaccompanied minor brought in to Ireland in the last two years.

Where do these unaccompanied minors come from? Only from countries the US has bombed the living daylights out of, and we allowed the US to use Shannon Airport to do so. Now we are not prepared to do anything for these people. The French have admitted they are about to clear the southern side of the camp in Calais. They cleared the northern side in the spring and 129 unaccompanied minors disappeared. I do not want to go into where we suspect they may have ended up. It is horrific. There are more than 1,000 of them in the camp and the southern side of the camp is about to be cleared by the French, despite the fact that up to eight NGOs in France are trying to take legal action to stop it. Several weeks ago, I heard the Minister state here that it was a good idea to clear the camp. It is horrific. The British have agreed to take in 300 and the French state they have capacity to cope with 276 of these minors. Can Ireland step up to the mark and do something? Can we play some sort of a role, given that we do not have clean hands because of our facilitation of Shannon Airport to the US military? I ask the Minister of State to talk to the people who make the decisions.

I am taking this topical issue debate on behalf of the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality who cannot be here this afternoon. As the Tánaiste recently outlined in responses to a number of parliamentary questions on this issue, we should be clear there is no official refugee or migrant camp in Calais. Calais does not fall under the EU relocation or resettlement decisions that Ireland has opted into, and therefore the people in Calais are not eligible for the Irish refugee protection programme because they are under the jurisdiction of the French authorities and have the right to apply for international protection in France.

The French authorities recently announced they will close the unofficial migrant camp in Calais by the end of this year and will move the approximately 9,000 inhabitants to new accommodation in reception centres throughout the country. This is being done to protect the security of the people of Calais, to maintain public order and to ensure dignified conditions for the migrants and refugees living in the Calais camp, including unaccompanied minors.

We also need to bear in mind that a defining characteristic of the people in Calais, including unaccompanied minors, has been their very strong desire to go to the UK as their ultimate destination and that this is unlikely to change. In our sincere efforts to respond to the migrant crisis, it is essential that we do not impose our perspectives or solutions upon them. In this respect, the Tánaiste and I do not see that a unilateral initiative from Ireland would be appropriate in this case, not least given the fact this is a delicate situation involving the borders between two other member states.

Deputies are aware that the Government decision to establish the Irish refugee protection programme recognised the importance of prioritising family groups and addressing the position of unaccompanied children. A significant number of those who have arrived to date under the resettlement and relocation elements of the programme are children with one or two parents. Deputies are also aware that when we speak about the Irish refugee protection programme we are referring to relocation from Italy and Greece and resettlement under the UNHCR-led programme which is focused on resettling refugees from camps in Lebanon.

With regard to unaccompanied minors, Ireland has formally indicated to Greece our desire to accept unaccompanied minors under the relocation mechanism, and we now have a commitment from the Greek authorities that Ireland will receive the first group of unaccompanied minors before the end of the year. Officials from Tusla, the child and family agency with statutory responsibility for the care of unaccompanied minors in the State, have recently travelled to Greece to assess first-hand the needs of these minors and to plan for their care and accommodation upon arrival.

The Minister of State said Calais is not an official camp so we cannot touch it. Well my God, most places where refugees gather are fairly unofficial. The chances of people fleeing from a place because some country like the US or Russia has bombed the living daylights out of it getting to an official camp are not always great. Travellers have often set up camp on the side of the road in Ireland and they are not always official. There have been hot spots. We are speaking about Italy, Greece and, I believe, we have even looked at Lebanon. We are cherry picking. We have gone out of our way to avoid doing what we should do. We are in denial about the fact we are partially responsible for the fact these people do not feel safe in their homes anymore.

It is mind-boggling that the EU is doing a deal with Afghanistan to return migrants in Europe to there. I met people from Afghanistan in the camps in the Calais and Dunkirk. My God, the thoughts of them having to be returned home are a cause of huge concern. They had fallen out with either ISIS or the Taliban, or a member of their family may have worked with the US forces. They would be killed if they went home. It is bad enough that Pakistan is in the process of expelling 3 million refugees back to Afghanistan and the west does not give a damn. Who invaded Afghanistan in the first place? It was the US in 2001, with our help through Shannon Airport. We destroyed the place.

God help us and save us, do not tell us Calais is an unofficial camp. So many Irish people have been there trying to help these people survive. I have text on my telephone from a fellow called Abdul. I met him out there. He is dead. He died two or three weeks ago. He fell off a truck and the truck behind him ran over him. We could do something for these people if we cared. I wish the Government would just do something.

I thank the Deputy. It is important.

The Deputy is not alone in his concerns for unaccompanied minors. The Tánaiste and I share these concerns and have acted upon them. Unaccompanied minors are an especially vulnerable group and we expect the issue will remain high on the agenda at EU level. I have already stated the measures we are taking under the Irish refugee protection programme to take unaccompanied minors from Greece under the EU relocation programme. Officials from the Department of Justice and Equality and Tusla are working hard to overcome the remaining barriers with the Greek authorities.

The relocation of unaccompanied minors is a complex and sensitive process involved in various aspects of European and domestic law. Any actions taken regarding this vulnerable group must have the principles of the best interests of the child and protection of the family reunification at their core. I must reiterate that all migrants in Calais, including unaccompanied minors, are entitled to apply for asylum in France, and applicants for asylum would also commence the process under the Dublin regulation by which an application may be legally transferred to another member state to have their application determined under certain prescribed criteria, including for family reunion.

Ambulance Service

I wish to speak about the review of the national ambulance service in the mid-west. This will include a review of our rapid response units. We in the mid-west are very concerned that these rapid response units will be withdrawn. Six or seven years ago, the services in the mid-west were reconfigured and acute casualties services were withdrawn from the hospitals in Ennis and Nenagh and transferred to the regional hospital in Limerick. In response to this, it was decided to introduce a rapid response unit staffed by advanced paramedics.

They look after patients in their homes or at the roadside and provide urgent casualty services prior to transferring them to hospital. They were intended to make up for the lack of casualty services in Ennis and Nenagh hospitals. Unfortunately, in the reconfiguration of hospital services in the mid-west, additional services and beds were not provided in University Hospital Limerick. Consequently, there is a huge trolley crisis at the hospital which is experiencing a huge bed shortage. If the acute paramedic rapid response units are withdrawn, it will be a further blow to medical services in the mid-west. It will be a breach of trust and faith with patients and the population of the mid-west, which is approximately 440,000. Following the review of the ambulance service and the rapid response units, in particular, they need to be maintained or increased but certainly not decreased.

The services the rapid response vehicles provide are essential. Paramedics provide a triage service at the site of accidents or for someone with a serious illness; they can call in the helicopter service and stream patients to the most appropriate location, either by ambulance or helicopter to Galway, Limerick or Cork, depending on the illness or injury the person has suffered. This is an important service which is much valued by the community. It has become embedded in the acute services provided in the mid-west.

The out-of-hours services provided by Shannondoc co-operative will be reduced in the near future because there is a lack of GPs in rural Ireland. This is a major problem facing the health service. The Committee on the Future of Healthcare and the Joint Committee on Health have discussed how staff can be recruited and retained, but how can doctors be expected to work and live in a rural community which has no services? No doctor and no village mean no medical service. If the Government continues to erode community services, which has been happening for the past few years, we will end up with an unsustainable service. Community services need to be bolstered, which means more GPs are required. Urgent response units also need to be added.

The National Ambulance Service is creaking at the seams. A huge geographical area needs to be covered. I mean no disrespect to ambulance staff because they cannot cope because of the area they have to cover. There are significant delays in ambulances arriving. The rapid response unit is an intermediary which supplies essential services in the mid-west. If the review recommends the removal of, or a reduction in, that service, it will be extremely detrimental to the health of people living in counties Clare and Tipperary.

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. Unfortunately, the Minster for Health cannot be present and he has asked me to take this matter on his behalf.

I welcome the opportunity to address the House on a matter which has been the subject of speculation recently. The National Ambulance Service has undergone a significant process of modernisation in recent years and a number of key reform targets have been reached. They include the establishment of the national emergency operations centre; the delivery of improved technology to improve response times; the development of the intermediate care service to provide lower acuity hospital transfers, thereby freeing up more emergency ambulances to respond to more urgent calls; and the establishment of a permanent emergency aero-medical support service to provide rapid access to appropriate treatment for high acuity patients in remote rural areas where access by land ambulances may be difficult.

In the context of the ongoing process of reform and modernisation, the National Ambulance Service continually reviews its operations to ensure the most efficient service can be delivered to the public. To this end, a local review is under way in the mid-west which is focusing on the use of a specific rapid response vehicle in the region. The available data suggest more efficient use could be made of this vehicle in the context of available resources.

Contrary to recent media speculation, there is no question but that the service in the area will not be diminished. In fact, the purpose of the review is to ensure the people of the mid-west will receive the best service possible within available resources. The Minister has been advised that the outcome of the review will be subject to full discussion at national level and that service delivery and enhancement will be an integral part of the discussions.

The reform programme is taking place against the backdrop of the HIQA review of ambulance services which was published in late 2014 and the National Ambulance Service capacity review which was published earlier this year. The capacity review which was undertaken by Lightfoot Solutions, a UK-based consultancy firm, examined overall ambulance resource levels and distribution against demand and activity levels. The review found that the National Ambulance Service was presented with a major challenge compared to ambulance services elsewhere, as population density in Ireland is significantly different from that in many other countries. Outside the greater Dublin area the population is widely dispersed, with a relatively large population living in rural areas. This means that response time targets are much more difficult to achieve because of longer driving distances. The report endorses the existing policy of dynamic deployment, whereby vehicles are strategically located where they are most likely to be required, rather than statically deployed, that is, located at a particular station. It is in this context that the review in the mid-west is taking place. The review is fully in line with the National Ambulance Service's key priority to ensure the deployment of the most appropriate resource quickly and efficiently. By optimising operational performance, we are seeking to ensure better outcomes for patients.

Nobody better understands population density in rural areas, which is not the same as in Dublin. Therefore, ambulance response times cannot be the same as they are expected to be in Dublin, but that aspect does not concern us; what concerns us is the rapid response vehicles dispatched to the site of seriously ill patients. Many patients who require an ambulance do not require a blue light service and can wait for a reasonable period. I am referring to the rapid response units that attend seriously ill, traumatised patients involved in road traffic accidents and coastal fall incidents who require urgent medical attention. Such a service is needed because of population density and the size of the area covered in west Clare and County Tipperary. Casualty services were removed from Ennis and Nenagh hospitals. While a helicopter service is available to transfer seriously ill patients, it can only be called by an advanced paramedic. It is essential that the rapid response service be maintained and bolstered because those living in rural Ireland should be entitled to the same services as those living in urban areas. We pay the same taxes and should have the same service. We understand we cannot have a casualty department at every crossroads, but the rapid response unit was intended to make up for the withdrawal of casualty services, with services now being provided 60 miles away. I ask the Minister of State to ensure there will be no reduction in the number of rapid response units.

I do not question the Deputy's knowledge of rural Ireland and the distance between locations and hope he did not take offence at some of my remarks. I understand his concerns, particularly as we live in a country with many roads and access is not what it should be for ambulances in rural areas. The rapid response service plays a huge part in attending to ill patients throughout the country. The diminution of the service would be a major disadvantage to people living in rural areas. I will convey the Deputy's concerns to the Minister and assure him that the Minister is very much aware of them. I will reiterate them when I meet him during the week.

Primary Care Centres Provision

I raise this issue out of sheer frustration. I was not a Member of the Thirty-first Dáil and was absent between 2011 and 2016 but the provision of primary care centres in the greater Clondalkin and Lucan areas has persisted in demonstrating a lack of progress. We are all agreed on the significance of primary care centres and, in response to various replies I have received, I understand the type of services they offer to communities such as nursing, counselling physiotherapy, social work, occupational therapy, speech and language therapy, dieticians, chiropody, podiatry and so forth. In addition to treatment, there is also health education and health awareness, which reduce the burden on acute hospitals.

I am at a loss to understand why little or no progress has been made on three specific cases. The first is in Rowlagh, north Clondalkin. A reply to Deputy Micheál Martin in February 2013 states:

Rowlagh / North Clondalkin was one of the 35 primary care centres announced under the infrastructure stimulus package in July 2012. Approximately 20 will be offered ... The preparatory work for the primary care centre project which precedes signing of any PPP agreements is well underway. While it is not possible, at this time, to give start and completion dates for any of the individual 20 potential locations, the best estimate is that these primary care centres will be completed by late 2016.

As time went on and nothing was progressing, I pursued the issue with other questions. At the end of last year I was told it was intended to lodge planning permission in early 2016. This summer the response was that the HSE was finalising the development of the primary care centre with the Department of Education and Skills and that the agreement between the HSE and the Department of Education and Skills was subject to planning permission being granted for the development. Furthermore, the HSE had engaged a design team which had completed the preliminary design. As it stands today, there is no application for planning. Considering the fact that the Department of Education and Skills and the HSE are agencies of the State, it is appalling that since the announcement in 2012 so little progress has been made. A site is available, there is a clearly identified need but there has been no progress.

The first project is the worst case because the State has control over all elements. There are two further cases, however. One is in Clondalkin village in regard to which the reply to a question of mine was that the developer had advised the HSE that he intended to sell his interest as he was not in a position to complete the development. The HSE has consented to the sale, subject to the terms and conditions of the original agreement being met, while the developer is currently disposing of his interest in the site and it is currently on the market. When the sale of the site is concluded, the HSE will engage with the new owners to establish a timeframe for the completion of the primary care centre development. Again, the HSE is sitting around passively and it may take a very long time, in the current climate, to dispose of it.

The third case is in Lucan. I was told that the proposed development of a primary care centre was via an operational lease. An Bord Pleanála refused permission for the lease and the preferred developer has withdrawn. I was told that the HSE intended to explore options for the delivery of a primary care centre for Lucan. My concern for this and the Clondalkin project is that they were under a lease agreement, in partnership with developers, and the HSE is not being proactive with them in looking for a solution. It states that it intends to explore options but this work should be actively pursued. It is now six months since planning permission was refused by An Bord Pleanála.

I know this is not the Minister of State's area of responsibility but I have brought it to the floor of the House because, having pursued this with parliamentary question after parliamentary question, the wording of the response has been good but the action terrible in respect of all three cases.

On behalf of the Minister, Deputy Harris, I thank Deputy Curran for raising this issue.

The Programme for a Partnership Government commits to a decisive shift towards primary care so that we can provide better care close to home for communities around the country. Primary care centres are an integral part of this because of the range of multi-disciplinary services they can provide and the role they can play in keeping people who do not need to be in an acute setting out of hospital.

I can advise the Deputy that 93 primary care centres, PCCs, are already operational, of which 50 were opened from 2011 to date in 2016. At present, there are 48 locations where primary care infrastructure is under construction or at an advanced planning stage, under three different methods of delivery, namely, 14 by direct build, 14 by public private partnership and 20 by operational lease.

The mechanism and timescale for delivery of primary care centres is dependent on a number of factors, some of which are outside the control of the HSE. Delivery of primary care infrastructure is a dynamic process, constantly evolving to take account of changing circumstances, including the feasibility of implementation. Regardless of delivery mechanism, all potential primary care infrastructure is subject to suitable locations being offered or provided or available, subject to successful planning processes and GP commitment to sharing accommodation and delivering health care services with HSE staff. In addition, the operational lease mechanism is subject to market pressures such as the developers' access to adequate financing. Some of these factors are outside the control of the Health Service Executive.

In Clondalkin, primary care services are provided from three health centres, Boot Road, Rowlagh and Deansrath. In Lucan, primary care services are provided from two health centres, Lucan village and Rosse Court. The planning permission for the proposed PCC in Lucan, which was to be delivered by the operational lease mechanism, was rejected on appeal by An Bord Pleanála. As a result, the HSE has withdrawn the agreement for lease and is currently investigating alternative options for the provision of a PCC in the area.

The HSE's Boot Road health centre site in Clondalkin was identified for redevelopment as a PCC. However, following planning process delays and the preparation of detailed design and tender documents, the developer, who also owns an adjoining site, was unable to source the required finance to develop the entire site, as intended. A number of interested parties have contacted the HSE in regard to the development of a PCC for Clondalkin and I am confident that agreement to provide a new PCC in the area will be achieved.

The HSE will ensure that the services currently being delivered from the Boot Road health centre will continue to be delivered in the area until a new PCC is developed. Purchase agreement for the planned PCC for Rowlagh and north Clondalkin, which is to be provided by direct build, is subject to planning permission being granted for the development.

I do not wish to be disrespectful but I am aware of most of what the Minister of State said. She said she was confident but, having gone through the process for so long, I have a complete lack of confidence in it. I want to pick her up on one thing. The Taoiseach, in his speech to this House yesterday, said, "Funding has also been provided to increase the number of doctor training places, and to deliver on the 80 additional primary care centres around the country." There are not 80 in the plans for the moment. The Minister of State said 93 were opened between 2011 and 2016 and she is correct, but the response I received to a parliamentary question is really interesting because it shows that the momentum for primary care centres has been lost as the economy is recovering, for whatever reason. In 2012, 18 were opened while in the following year, 2013, nine were opened. In 2014, seven were opened and in 2015 five were opened while, to date in 2016, three have been opened. The words are fine but there is no momentum in the project and we are not seeing delivery. The Minister said services were being operated in various locations and she is right but they are not the comprehensive range of services, such as speech and language services, occupational therapy and so forth, that we would have in a proper designated primary care centre. That is the difference and I think the Minister knows that.

These three projects have been around the block numerous times. One of them is in the full control of various arms of the State via the Department of Education and Skills and the HSE. There is a need for more urgency. The other two, which require third-party intervention because they involve lease agreements or public private partnership arrangements, have stumbled. One of them is dead in the water because An Bord Pleanála has refused it. The Department needs to be much more proactive.

There was a time when if a Deputy asked a question on primary care centres, the answer was provided by the Minister. If one asks a question in that regard now, the Minister refers it to the HSE for reply. Primary care centres, in terms of the impact they could have on acute hospital services in our communities, are not delivering in the areas of speech and language, occupational therapy and so on. All of these services are missing. There is a need for greater urgency. I reiterate that only three centres will be delivered this year. Five were delivered last year. This process has ground to a halt in the past number of years and I do not know the reason for this. This issue must be addressed. I appreciate that the Minister of State, Deputy Catherine Byrne, is not the line Minister with responsibility in this regard.

Deputy Curran is more familiar with this area than I am. I know he is frustrated but I am unable to provide any more information. However, I assure the Deputy, as I did Deputy Harty, that I will raise this issue with the Minister on his return. What is important for me is that people get a proper service. Like Deputy Curran, I work with people in areas where primary care centres are important. They make a huge difference in communities in terms of the services they provide.

I agree with Deputy Curran that we need to be more proactive. For my part, I will nail the Minister down on this issue, following which I will get back to the Deputy on it.

I appreciate that.

Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website.
The Dáil adjourned at 4.55 p.m. until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 18 October 2016.
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