Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 22 Sep 2022

Vol. 1026 No. 5

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Departmental Schemes

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

Across the State, tens of thousands of homeowners, private and social housing tenants, are living in defective buildings with defective blocks and pyrite in the foundations but also many with fire safety, water ingress and other structural defects. All those people are waiting very anxiously on next week's budget announcements to see what, if anything, the Government has in store for them. Sinn Féin will continue to make the case for the need for substantial amendment to the defective block remediation legislation as well as a significant increase in funding for those homeowners. However, what I want to talk about here is the working group on defective housing.

Only last week, myself and my colleague, Deputy Ó Snodaigh, met a very large number of residents in a residential development in Park West in Deputy Ó Snodaigh's constituency and on the boundary of mine. They are apartment owners, the overwhelming majority of whom bought homes in good faith, who are now facing bills individually of €60,000 to €70,000 each to remediate that property. Those people, like tens of thousands of others across the State, definitely need a remediation scheme and it needs to have significant funding in addition to whatever funding is provided for pyrite and defective block schemes. That scheme also needs to be retrospective for those homeowners who, whether under pressure from insurers or fire safety officials, have had to remediate their properties or parts of their properties to date. There will also be a need for some sort of interim measures for those who need to urgently need to remediate their properties now.

Sinn Féin's strong view is that the best way to do this is to take the pyrite resolution board that is currently in place and expand its terms of reference so that homeowners affected by Celtic tiger-era defects, which they did not cause, can immediately apply to that body. It is almost finished its work in terms of pyrite. The Government estimates that there are a few hundred homeowners left. That way, rather than setting up a new grant scheme and having to go through the whole process again, we would take the structure that is there and give it additional funding. Crucially, the advantage of doing that would be that it would not be a grant scheme like we have in Donegal and Mayo and now Clare and Limerick. Those schemes are not fit for purpose. Given the complex nature of multi-unit residential developments and the fact that they are not individual owners with an individual discrete unit but an owners' management company with collective ownership of the shared areas, an end-to-end scheme managed by the Pyrite Resolution Board, albeit probably renamed, would be an eminently sensible way to do that as well as reducing the costs ultimately to the Exchequer as well.

I am keen to hear from the Minister of State. I know he will not tell me what is in the budget - I am not asking why he cannot answer that particular question as somebody else can do that - but I ask that he would at least give us some sense of what has happened since the working group's report was given to the Government in the summer of this year. What is the Government's thinking on how to deal with this?

I can attest - Deputy Ó Snodaigh would say the same - to what I heard from the homeowners we met last week. I meet homeowners like these from throughout the country, from counties Clare, Donegal and Mayo as well as from across Dublin and the commuter belt counties. In some cases, they have been waiting for 15 years to get some indication of whether there will be any scheme at all. They did not create these defects. They bought homes in good faith. While they share the view of many of us that in the first instance the developer responsible should foot the bill, for many reasons in many cases it is not possible to pursue the developer. The Statute of Limitations may have been exceeded. The developer may no longer be trading or has created a new designated activity company, trading under another name.

I ask the Minister of State to outline where the Government is at. Can we expect some form of scheme to be in place from 2023 to give these homeowners the much-needed respite they rightly deserve and desperately need?

Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy Malcolm Noonan)

I am happy to provide an update on the working group. I acknowledge the considerable challenges and stress this has placed on families. I acknowledge the difficulties that homeowners and residents of many apartments and duplexes are facing, and the stress that is caused when defects arise in their buildings. The Deputy will be aware that there have been many incidents of failures and non-compliance concerns coming to light in apartment buildings built during the building boom. The Minister, Deputy Darragh O’Brien, has repeatedly said that this is a nettle which the Government needs to and will grasp, and that the Government is committed to helping affected homeowners.

One of the first tasks of the Minister, Deputy Darragh O’Brien, following the formation of the Government was the establishment of an independent working group to examine defects in housing under the chairmanship of Mr. Seamus Neely, the former chief executive of Donegal County Council. This followed a commitment in the programme for Government to examine the issue and bring forward reforms. This commitment was further supported by actions contained in Housing for All.

The group’s terms of reference were focused on fire safety, structural safety and water ingress defects in purpose-built apartment buildings, including duplexes, constructed between 1991 and 2013. The Minister, Deputy Darragh O’Brien, received the report of the working group at the end of July.

The content of this report confirms what we already know, which is that there is a significant and widespread issue with defects in a large number of apartments and duplexes that were built during the Celtic tiger years.

The working group estimates that of apartments and duplexes or associated common areas constructed between 1991 and 2013, the number that may be affected by one or more fire safety, structural safety or water ingress defects is likely to range between 50% and 80%. This equates to between 62,500 and 100,000 apartments or duplexes.

In addition, the working group estimates that the average cost of undertaking the remediation of defects is likely to be approximately €25,000 per apartment or duplex. This translates into a potential overall total remediation cost ranging from approximately €1.56 billion to €2.5 billion.

The working group concluded that there is no single cause of defects. They tend to arise due to a variety of design, product, inspection, supervision and workmanship issues, occurring either in isolation or in various combinations.

The working group made recommendations on the planning, prioritisation and resourcing of all remedial works. It identified approaches to fire safety protection, inspection and certification. Where necessary to enable continued use of affected buildings, interim measures should be carried out, pending the implementation of full remedial works.

The working group’s recommendations along with the evidence gathered and options for potential supports contained in the report will be of considerable assistance in informing the Government's next steps.

Taking into account what has been learned through the development and operation of other schemes such as the pyrite remediation scheme and the defective concrete blocks scheme, the Minister, Deputy Darragh O’Brien, will now, in consultation with Government colleagues, develop a plan to address the situation in which many homeowners find themselves through no fault of their own. The Minister looks forward to keeping the House informed of developments in this regard.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

I thank the Minister of State for telling me what the report published two and a half months ago said. There were ten paragraphs in his speech. There was half a paragraph containing one sentence in response to the question I asked. I hope after next week's budget announcements homeowners will be somewhat the wiser as to the Government's intentions.

One of the issues constantly raised by homeowners and their representatives through the Construction Defects Alliance and the Apartment Owners Network is the anger that those responsible are not contributing anything. If a redress scheme is announced in the budget, it will rightly be primarily funded by the Government, but we need to make sure industry pays.

Two companies were responsible for defects in the apartments and duplexes in Belmayne in north County Dublin. Kitara still trades. Stanley Holdings was reconstituted and the directors of that are now the directors of Cairn Homes, one of the largest home builders in the State. Much to the anger of homeowners in Belmayne, Cairn Homes is building a huge new residential development with significant support from the State on the land directly beside them. Homeowners do not understand why individuals or companies who in the past were responsible for defects get significant support, planning permission, State aid and support from NAMA to build homes and make enormous profits. Michael Stanley of Cairn Homes is a case in point.

I welcome that in reply to a parliamentary question in July, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, indicated to me that the Government is considering imposing a levy on industry to ensure it pays its fair share. My strong view is that it should be euro for euro because the Government has a responsibility for decades of light-touch regulation. For every €1 the State pays for remediation, €1 should come from industry.

I also hope the Government will support my sentiment that developers that continue to trade either as individuals or as companies should be brought to bear. For example, the homeowners in Belmayne who are facing substantial costs to address defects should not only get support from the State and industry but also from those individuals and companies who are making enormous profits despite the fact that in a piece of land next to where they are building homeowners have been left with defects for over a decade and a half. Can the Minister of State give me any update on the attempts being made by the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, to get industry to make a contribution? While I know the Minister of State cannot tell me what will be in the budget, will homeowners be any more enlightened next Tuesday than they will be after his intervention here this evening?

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

Like the Deputy, I welcome the proposal from the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, on the levy. In reference to defective concrete blocks, the Minister, Deputy Darragh O’Brien, referred to the responsibility of industry regarding the costs of these remediation schemes.

On behalf of the Minister, Deputy Darragh O’Brien, I thank the members of the working group for the work they undertook in preparing such a comprehensive report in a tight timeframe. I assure the House of the Minister's commitment to resolve these issues.

The Deputy is correct that I cannot anticipate what might appear in the budget in this regard. However, the Minister, Deputy Darragh O’Brien, has given a commitment to work with the homeowners to try to resolve these issues in a manner that is just and sustainable for the affected homeowners. I take on board the point the Deputy made on the pyrite remediation board. I assure the House that the Minister is determined to resolve these issues. A significant number of properties are affected by these serious issues. The Government is determined to try to resolve them on behalf of the homeowners.

Child Protection

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Durkan, who is returning to an issue close to his heart. He wishes to ask the Minister for Justice and Equality to discuss measures to safeguard and protect children in sensitive family law cases.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I am thankful for the opportunity to raise this issue again. It is an issue with which all public representatives are familiar. I was somewhat at sea on the last occasion because I did not have as much information as I would have liked to have been able to present to the House. Since then, I did some research and was astounded at some of the things I found. It was suggested to me that there might have been the development of an anti-women element in the courts.

Women were not getting their rights as mothers as in the case I mentioned. She has particular rights as the primary carer and custodian of the children and rights under guardian ad litem. These were not observed and were dismissed or rejected by the court. Subsequently the children in this case were accosted in school by gardaí on foot of an order from the courts and were brought to the other side - to the respondent in the case, which was obviously a case in the divorce courts. The children were taken away from their mother and placed in the custody of the former spouse of the litigant.

I concluded, as you would conclude, a Cheann Comhairle, having dealt with these matters for many years - and other Members as well - that there must be something there that we did not observe. I did some more research and I then discovered that the mother was accused of attempting to turn the children against the father, who had been removed from the house some years previously on foot of a serious issue. The case persisted, to the extent that the mother was warned that if she approached a public representative, Tusla or anybody else, to plead her case there would be recriminations for which she would pay in the short and long term. It would appear now that her offence is that she is accused by an accuser, supported by the court, of trying to turn the family against the father. The most important point is that allegation was never challenged. The judge in question decided not to hear the case, which went against her, and since last May she has not had an occasion to meet her children except by way of telephone call. There were repeated admonitions from the solicitor for the other side pointing out that if she persisted, this would be taken into account against her.

I did some other research. You will be interested in this as well, a Cheann Comhairle. I researched a number of cases that I had dealt with over the years. I found that there was a pattern, which appeared to be misogynistic and to address what was referred to as the women's issue, whereby women were seen to be too powerful and were getting too much of their way in the courts and the aim was to redress that. Everybody is entitled to their day in court and to due process and natural justice. They might not always win, but there must be an opportunity where the questions are asked quite strongly by the opposing side in order to verify the case. That is their right. It is also their right to have an alternative court-appointed child psychologist, psychologist or messenger of the court, as it may be, to deal with the issue if necessary in order that justice prevails. That is the information I have so far. You will be interested, a Cheann Comhairle, in the next piece of information that I will not have for another week.

An Ceann Comhairle

Before I call the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, I want to say that we heard some of this case last week when the Minister, Deputy O’Gorman, was here to deal with it from the point of view of the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. I thought long and hard about whether to select this issue today, but I have selected it because nobody is identifiable and because Deputy Durkan has demonstrated over a very considerable period his deep concern about this issue. It raises fundamental issues of natural justice. I do not know where else it could be ventilated if it cannot be ventilated here, so in that context we are dealing with it again today.

Minister of State at the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (Deputy Anne Rabbitte)

Thank you very much, a Cheann Comhairle, for putting me in the picture in the context of this matter. I am taking it on behalf of both the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, and the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy O'Gorman. I will keep to the script on this so that we can continue with the story.

I thank Deputy Durkan for raising this important matter here today and for giving me the opportunity to provide clarity on some issues. Management of the courts, operational matters and logistical functions are the responsibility of the Judiciary and the Courts Service, which are independent in exercising their functions under the Courts Service Act 1998 and given the separation of powers in the Constitution. As such, I am unable to comment on the specific matters raised by the Deputy.

Section 47 of the Family Law Act 1995 provides that the Circuit Court or High Court may order a report in writing on any question affecting the welfare of a party to family law proceedings or any other person to whom they relate. Section 3 of the Guardianship of Infants Act 1964 provides that the best interests of the child shall be the paramount consideration for the court in any proceedings where guardianship, custody or upbringing of, or access to, a child is in question. Section 32(1) of the 1964 Act provides that in such proceedings, the court may do either or both of the following: give directions for the purpose of procuring a written report from an expert on any question affecting the welfare of the child; or appoint an expert to determine and convey the child's views. Assessors and experts in family law proceedings are formally appointed by the court, and answer to the presiding judge in a specific case.

The Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, is determined to overhaul the operation of the family justice system, to ensure that we have a more efficient and user-friendly family court system that puts the family at the centre of its work. This is a key commitment in the Minister's Justice Plan 2022. The programme for Government contains a commitment to enact a family court Bill to create a new dedicated family court within the existing courts structure and provide for court procedures that support a faster and less adversarial resolution of disputes. The purpose of the legislation is the establishment of a dedicated family court to improve levels of judicial expertise and training in family law matters and to streamline family law proceedings, thereby making them more user-friendly and less costly.

The general scheme of the family court Bill has been referred to the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel and drafting is progressing with a view to publication of the Bill as soon as possible in this Dáil session. The Minister also established a family justice oversight group to develop the first national strategy for the reform of the family justice system and to support the legislative changes proposed in the planned family court Bill. The focus of the group is to drive and co-ordinate the modernisation of the family justice system to make it more user-friendly, streamlined, supportive and, where possible, less adversarial. The terms of reference of the group include developing a high-level vision and medium and long-term objectives for the development of an effective national family justice system. This will be most obvious in the development of the first family justice strategy and its subsequent implementation. The strategy is currently being finalised.

As part of its work to develop the strategy, the group engaged in a consultation process where relevant stakeholders, the public, children and young people who engage with the family justice system gave their views on how a modernised family justice system should look. A number of common issues were raised and are being considered for inclusion in the emergent family justice strategy, including: a greater focus on children; the availability of and access to support services; the potential use of less adversarial approaches to the resolution of disputes; and, where possible, appropriate training and information dissemination and awareness raising. One of the areas being considered by the group is additional training for those working within the family justice system that would benefit all those who engage with the system. The family court Bill will provide that specialist knowledge, and ongoing professional training in the area of family law will be required to be appointed as a family court judge.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, for coming into the House and addressing the issue comprehensively. It is something that falls into the area of a change in legislation. We referred to the in camera rules as they apply to family law cases. Like the Minister of State and other Members of the House, in the past I have had to go into court as a witness in such cases. Not everybody welcomed me with open arms but I did what I felt I had to do. As they say, fair play is good sport, wherever it applies. The Minister of State referred to the protection of the rights of the child and consultation with the child in particular situations, which did not take place except in an arbitrary fashion by somebody who proclaimed to know best what to do. That is something that most mothers in the country will have strong objections to, and I do not blame them.

I am worried about the pattern of a number of cases that I dealt with, whereby there was an intent to take away the rights of the mother of children or to take away rights that she might have after rearing her family and suddenly face the possibility of being out on the road after 20 or 30 years. That cannot and should not happen in any democratic society. All the Members that I know in this House have always dedicated themselves to getting fair play for people in such circumstances.

This question went out to two Ministers and both Departments have been threatened obliquely by the other side as to there being consequences in the event of a report being made to either or both of them. I hope we have addressed the issue and that action will be taken to ensure the issues I have referred to will be addressed fairly by the courts.

Deputy Anne Rabbitte

Again, on behalf of the Minister for Justice, I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. In addition to the progress previously outlined, she recently held a public consultation on the topic of parental alienation, which provided a valuable opportunity for stakeholders and citizens to express their views on this complex issue and inform her Department’s thinking on whether any legislative and policy changes may be required. All views, opinions and experiences submitted as part of this consultation have been welcomed and those responses received are under review. The Department of Justice has arranged for a separate strand of independent research on parental alienation to be carried out. The Minister is pleased to say a draft report has been received by the Department and is being reviewed. It is expected that both the research and the consultation will create a deeper understanding of the issue and inform the Department's consideration on policy on law in this area. The Minister, Deputy McEntee, expects the report outlining the outcome of the research and consultation process towards the end of the year.

The Deputy referred to the voice of the child. We had a referendum on this and the voice of the child has to be taken into consideration at all times. I am delighted to say my colleague, the Minister, Deputy McEntee, has this work done in relation to parental alienation. While today the Deputy talks about the mother, in a lot of cases it is the experience of the father as well who finds himself in that similar position. We have to have the child at the centre and to stop weaponising one parent against the other to ensure they can come down heavy on one side or the other.

I welcome what the Minister is doing and I will relay the Deputy's comments to her.

Public Transport

Deputy John Lahart

I know the Deputy from Dún Laoghaire will be interested in parts of this. It is disappointing not to have a Minister from the line Department present. Were it anyone else but the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, replying I would postpone the matter until next Tuesday. I know the line Department will be watching this. I know the Minister of State will bring back the content and comments faithfully. She has done so before and I really appreciate it.

Neighbours of mine was very excited recently because their son gained a place in UCD having done the leaving cert. We were chatting about induction week and I asked how the son was going to get to UCD. I said there was a bus from outside the estate, route 175. Then the local and strong organisation, Knocklyon Network, was inundated on its Facebook page in the past week with comments from residents asking them to raise the issue with local public representatives. I said I would do my best and try to raise it on the floor of the Dáil. I waited until today, but it has been a busy week. I assure any of them who are watching that I have raised it with the National Transport Authority, the NTA, and I have written and communicated directly with the managing director of Go-Ahead Ireland, which is responsible for three of the four routes I will raise.

The first is route 175. It runs through Ballyboden in my constituency through Scholarstown and Knocklyon and serving Ballycullen, Firhouse, Old Bawn, into Tallaght village, past The Square and out to City West. In that area there are hospitals, schools, colleges, a business park, industrial estates and major employment centres. It is a critical route. It passes a number of schools, particularly Educate Together schools, but others also, including pupils from outside the catchment area. The schools are utterly dependent on bus services.

The second is route 75, which runs from Tallaght to Dún Laoghaire via Dundrum. I see the Acting Chair is nodding his head. That route starts in The Square in Tallaght, and shoppers and employees depend on it. Again, it goes through Old Bawn, Rathfarnham shopping centre, Rathfarnham village and passes schools. It connects out to Dundrum Luas. It is a vital link. It also connects to the Stillorgan shopping centre.

The third is route 27 from Jobstown passing, for example, the Coombe Hospital, Crumlin shopping centre, Kilnamanagh, which has a great shopping centre, Tallaght Luas, Tallaght Hospital and Tallaght village. These are critical routes.

The final one is route 17 which only spends minutes in my constituency, passing through Rathfarnham.

There have been failures in timetables, cancelled bus routes and the disappearance of bus times from timetables. I particularly feel for students who at this time have just started their school year. They are excited about it. We are trying to keep cars off the road. These are vulnerable times, including early in the morning and late at night. We can picture a young adult, a young woman maybe, standing at a bus stop and the bus not turning up. The person has to wait by themselves for another 45 minutes to an hour for the next bus to come.

I have a few more comments to make in the second part of my contribution, but that essentially outlines the background.

Deputy Anne Rabbitte

After what I am about to read, the Deputy will certainly have a few more comments to make. I thank Deputy Lahart for raising this important topic which I am taking on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Ryan.

I understand that the Deputy’s question is in relation to the impact on second and third level students, and other commuters, when buses on the 75, 175, 27 and 17 routes fail to operate according to schedule leaving commuters and students abandoned and stranded at bus stops and to learn how this is being addressed by the bus operators.

I further understand that the issue of service reliability on these routes was raised by both Deputy O'Rourke and Deputy Lawless earlier this morning during Oral Questions with the Minister for Transport.

From the outset, I note that the Department for Transport has responsibility for policy and overall funding in relation to public transport. However, the Department is not involved in the day-to-day operation of public transport services nationally, including those public service obligation routes currently operated by Go-Ahead Ireland. It is the National Transport Authority that has statutory responsibility for securing the provision of public passenger transport services nationally by way of public transport service contracts, and for the allocation of associated funding to the relevant transport operators. PSO services are socially necessary but financially unviable services and the PSO programme represents a significant expenditure of taxpayers' money. Funding support has increased in recent years.

Currently, the vast majority of PSO bus services are provided by either Dublin Bus or Bus Éireann through what are known as direct award contracts. The remaining routes are operated by Go-Ahead Ireland, which entered the market in September 2018 as part of Government’s commitment to open-up the bus market through a programme of tendering known as “Bus Market Opening”.

A key Government objective is to provide all citizens with reliable and realistic sustainable mobility options, and public transport plays a key role in the delivery of this goal. To support this objective, in Budget 2022 the Department of Transport secured €538 million of funding for PSO and Local Link services provided by State operators and under contract by the NTA this year.

As the Deputy is aware, the Covid-19 health emergency has had a profound impact on the public transport sector due to the fall in passenger numbers and the associated drop in fare revenues. I am advised that to date passenger numbers remain below pre-Covid levels and demand is currently at 90% of that experienced in 2019 during the week and ahead of pre-pandemic levels at weekends.

In the context of the Deputy’s specific question regarding the 75 and 175 routes currently operated by Go-Ahead Ireland, I have been advised that the performance of all public transport operators is monitored by the NTA as part of the contractual arrangements in place between it and the operators.

I have been further advised that Go-Ahead Ireland is not alone in experiencing these issues and many operators in the public transport sector are facing challenges with staffing both as a result of Covid-19-related absences and with regard to recruiting new drivers.

However, while these staffing issues are being experienced by both commercial and PSO operators, it is also true that Go-Ahead Ireland is experiencing higher than normal levels of Covid-related staff absences at present. These absences are having a knock-on effect on service delivery with some services not operating as scheduled.

I understand that the NTA is working with Go-Ahead Ireland to try to mitigate the impacts through recruitment campaigns, engagement with the Road Safety Authority, RSA, regarding the testing and licence process for new bus drivers and by working with Go-Ahead Ireland to minimise service cancellations, ensure first-service and last-service buses operate and on low-frequency routes to avoid, where possible, the cancellation of consecutive low-frequency services.

Deputy John Lahart

I thank the Minister of State; she made a valiant effort I am about to blow a gasket, really.

Deputy Anne Rabbitte

I know that.

Deputy John Lahart

I appreciate it. Are we surprised that passenger numbers are less than they were before Covid-19 when we have bus services as poor as that? I am a great supporter, and the unions know this, of the public service bus and Dublin Bus. The fact is that I simply have not had a complaint about a route that Dublin Bus operates. All four routes that brought to the Minister of State's attention are operated by Go-Ahead Ireland. I have found that the NTA tends to be much more sympathetic towards Go-Ahead Ireland in its parliamentary responses in terms of excusing this and that. Three quarters of the Minister of State's response was about the background of the response provided to her tonight. There is no suggestion or answer as to how this will be addressed, or what those second-level and third-level students, workers, hospital visitors, hospital workers, supermarket workers and people doing their shopping will do tomorrow when they are standing at a bus stop anywhere between Citywest and Ballyboden and every stop in between when their bus does not show up. In the case of students, they may be lucky enough to have parents who have a car on the road to get them to college or school or else they will have to find an alternative route.

I chaired the session on parliamentary questions to the Minister for Transport this morning when the Minister was in the Chamber and I did see and hear that. The Minister needs to call the NTA in now and say this is totally unacceptable. A good part of the Minister of State's answer revolved around how much the State invests in the public service obligation, PSO, contracts. Clearly, this contractor is not operating the contract in a fit-for-purpose manner. It is not meeting the public service demand or public demand.

I ask the Minister of State to bring back to the Minister the request that he call in the NTA, which is responsible for both the Dublin Bus routes and the Go-Ahead Ireland services that are provided in Dublin, and demand explanations. We saw the issue with school transport and how quickly it was responded to in rural Ireland. Buses were found from places and provided on the roads to service school pupils. Buses and drivers will have to be found for those constituents in my constituency and beyond who are left stranded at bus stops where timetables are not met but are still advertised as running according to normal. Some immediate action will have to be taken. I thank the Minister of State for her long forbearance on this. She can cut her answer short if it saves the Acting Chairman time.

Deputy Anne Rabbitte

I would like to reassure the Deputy that the NTA is engaging regularly with would Go-Ahead Ireland and other public transport operators regarding any service provision issues on the public service obligation network, and that the NTA is providing regular updates to the Department of the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, on these issues. I can also confirm that as part of the NTA's contractual performance monitoring system with operators, issues of poor reliability and punctuality performance can result in financial penalties for those operators such as Go-Ahead Ireland.

Deputy John Lahart

The penalties are not enough for the customers.

Deputy Anne Rabbitte

I have been informed that these matters will be discussed between the NTA and Go-Ahead Ireland at the forthcoming quarterly review meeting. Deputy Lahart may wish to be aware that penalties were previously applied to Go-Ahead Ireland for quarter 4 of 2021 and quarter 1 of 2022, amounting to €266,000 and €209,000, respectively. Further to that, the NTA formally meets Go-Ahead Ireland on a weekly basis to review performance-associated customer feedback and driver recovery plans and will continue to closely monitor the situation.

I am advised that the public transport operators are forecasting improvements in reliability in the coming months, depending on successful recruitment and retention of critical staff, in particular of drivers. It is hoped that this will help to resolve the current reliability of the issues being experienced. I will bring back to the Minister the Deputy's frustration-----

Deputy John Lahart

The urgency.

Deputy Anne Rabbitte

-----and the urgency around this matter for the Deputy's constituents.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Cormac Devlin)

I thank the Minister of State and Deputy Lahart. I fully agree with his remarks. We now turn to the final Topical Issue matter of the day. I call Deputy Andrews.

Sports Funding

Deputy Chris Andrews

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, for coming in. It is safe to say we both agree how important sport is in Irish society. We are a real sporting nation. It is one of the pillars that sustains Irish society. Whether it is at grassroots or amateur level or supporting our elite athletes and teams wherever they represent us, we simply love sport.

Sporting organisations play a major role in community development and in fostering stronger social cohesion. An average of one in ten of all adults frequently volunteer within local sporting clubs. The economic value of volunteering for sports alone in 2018 was approximately €1.5 billion per annum. The impact of this is felt far beyond the pitches of our local sports clubs. These additional and often less spoken-of benefits are often some of the most profound. The negative effects of dropping out of supervised sporting activities are also extensive, ranging from increased substance misuse and poor school grades to widening the socioeconomic gap. Research from Sport Ireland has shown the impact that social class has on sporting participation. Only 47% of our children from a lower socioeconomic class grouping will continue some form of sport post primary, while 65% from high social class groupings will participate in post-primary community sport.

To ensure that sports continue to play this vital role, support for modern facilities needs to be provided. Despite the clear benefits of sports in our society, Ireland comes bottom of the table in the EU in general when it comes to investing in sports and recreational activities. The Irish Government is a persistent underfunder of sports and recreational activities. Our EU peer group spends on average three times more on sports and recreation than that of Ireland. When the large scale sport infrastructure fund, LSSIF, was launched in 2018, it was widely welcomed right across the sporting community, which felt that the Government was finally moving in the right direction and introducing adequate funding for major projects. This was seen as a much-needed Exchequer support for larger sports facility projects.

Unfortunately, since the first allocations under the LSSIF were announced in January 2020, very little has progressed. Approximately €86.4 million has been awarded to 33 different proposals. However, only approximately €900,000 has been paid out to projects. As we all know, building costs have skyrocketed since 2020. Questions must be asked as to how many of these projects are viable under increased building costs. Where projects are facing difficulties, will the Minister of State intervene with support for these sporting infrastructure projects? Capital projects funded through the LSSIF are capped at 70% of the total project. Has the Minister of State considered increasing the cap in view of rising building and construction costs?

The cost-of-living crisis is having a severe impact on the financial resources of clubs and national governing bodies, NGBs, across the State. As we enter the winter months, the floodlights will be back on and in action on a nightly basis. This will see increased costs for clubs and local authorities. We will see basketball halls across the State filling up, with basketball being one of our most popular winter sports. Many clubs are being pushed to the edge just trying to cover the cost of energy bills.

Can the Minister of State give a commitment that swimming pools, which are expensive to run, will get the funding they need to stay open and that they will not close? Resources for new facilities will be tighter than ever before. Is the Government confident that the 33 proposals awarded funding through the LSSIF will be delivered and when will the Department review on the LSSIF be published?

Minister of State at the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (Deputy Jack Chambers)

This is a single Topical Issue matter but multiple topics are being raised so I will try to deal with some of them. The LSSIF was launched in 2018 by the previous Government to provide an open and transparent system for applying for funding for larger sports facility projects, including swimming pools, where the amount being sought by applicants was greater than the funding available under my Department's sports capital and equipment programme. The first call for proposals was confined to sporting bodies and local authorities. Following a detailed assessment process, the first allocations under the fund were announced in January 2020 and thus far, approximately €86.4 million has been allocated to 33 different proposals. It should be noted in all cases that the funding provided by the Department represents a proportion of the overall cost of the project and it was a requirement for all applicants to show a minimum of 30% own funding for their proposals.

I know there is huge ambition in the sporting system, including for the projects that have received funding, for projects that were given funding for planning and design and for projects that have been developed since that time. Drawdown of these funds is not where I want it to be but it should be noted that the allocations were announced in January 2020, just prior to the arrival of the Covid-19 pandemic. The pandemic gave rise to significant financial challenges and delays in construction for all grantees, with many of them having to reprioritise their expenditure plans due to significant reductions in their income streams. The Government provided significant support during that period, with a massive expansion in direct funding for sporting organisations and clubs to keep them afloat. In more recent times, the high rate of construction inflation has also resulted in grantees pausing some projects until they are in a position to secure the balance of the funding required to complete works. From my Department's perspective, every effort has been made and there has been direct engagement with all applicants to advance all projects as efficiently as possible. While the priority remains to advance all the successful projects, as it is now two years since the first allocations were made, and in view of the issues faced by grantees as a result of Covid, it was considered timely to review progress on all projects that were allocated grants. My Department has met with all successful grantees and work is at an advanced stage in completing the review.

I refer to the efficiency of the scheme. As the Deputy will appreciate, the funding provided under the LSSIF is substantial and, accordingly, the Government is trying to get value for money. While overseeing the spending of public money on capital works, it is a requirement to ensure that projects adhere to the public spending code. In the case of some of the projects awarded funds, delays were encountered, with grantees completing the due diligence procedures to allow a grant agreement to issue. It should be noted however, that letters have issued to 16 of the grantees, confirming that the Department is satisfied with the economic appraisals and other documentation submitted and is happy to proceed to the grant agreement stage. Furthermore, it is encouraging that based on the discussions with grantees, 22 of the 33 projects should be in a position to draw down funding in 2023. Accordingly, I expect significant progress on many of these projects in the short term. In the context of ongoing increases in construction costs, other projects will require additional funding to progress and I am aware of the broader ambition that existed across the sporting system to deliver additional large sporting infrastructure. Delivering on that ambition will require significant further investment and this is something I have ongoing engagements on with my colleague, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform.

The Deputy referenced a league table, although he did not say where he got it from. I question his data because we announced more than €160 million for the sports capital and equipment programme earlier this year, the largest ever investment in grassroots sport. That demonstrates a massive expansion in our delivery for the sporting system and for clubs and communities. This Government has been committed to delivering that. We are seeing massive drawdown of funding within clubs. We are seeing all-weather pitches being built, equipment being delivered and all sorts of delivery across the sporting system. I accept that we have to make further progress on this but the update I have given the Deputy demonstrates that drawdown for those 22 projects will occur in the short term. There is progress but I accept that there have been delays during that two-year window.

Deputy Chris Andrews

I thank the Minister of State and I acknowledge what he and the Government did for sporting organisations during the pandemic. As he said, it kept many clubs afloat and it is important to acknowledge that. However, we are in another pandemic and there is a lot of talk in advance of the budget on household supports, which are vital, as well as business supports. Equally, there will be sports clubs that will need to be kept afloat. If you go to any park the floodlights will be on and swimming pools need to be kept open, even though they are costly. Many clubs that are drawing down these grants and other funds are struggling and it is important that a lifeline is thrown to them. The Minister of State said that 22 of the 33 clubs had progressed their applications but for the rest we need to ensure that where they need funding they get it and the sports organisations should not be allowed to die as a result of a lack of commitment by Government. The Government did not let the clubs go during the pandemic and I seek that sort of commitment and support to be continued during this energy pandemic for sports clubs. As I said earlier, the template we need to follow is that of the League of Ireland and Shamrock Rovers' facilities. We need to ensure those sort of projects and that sort of funding are provided for the League of Ireland, basketball, hockey and cricket. These sports need to be funded and they cannot be let go because of the energy crisis.

Deputy Jack Chambers

We have a €15 million club fund and Sport Ireland has written to all sporting organisations and governing bodies on same. This fund has been kept in reserve from earlier on in the year and, therefore, there will be an injection of support for grassroots clubs before the end of the year that will provide a significant support to clubs and sporting organisations. We are focused on participation grants that resulted from Covid. As the Deputy will be aware, some of the indoor sports were more affected than some of the outdoor sports but we are trying to focus on the participation gap and a €15 million club fund will be delivered into the grassroots system prior to the year end.

We are also conscious of the difficulties the Deputy mentioned regarding energy costs and we are in discussions on that. As a Government we have been clear that we want to support society and our voluntary sector when it comes to the impact of the cost of living. Given we backed all of these organisations through Covid, it is important we sustain their progress over the coming months and during the winter. We are also clear when it comes to our ambition for the LSSIF and 22 of the projects will advance shortly while there is a funding gap for some of the others. Some of that is not specifically related to funding but to other matters that have to be concluded. These are large multimillion euro projects and it is not simply a funding question. Some of them have not been able to advance for other reasons. There is proactive work by the LSSIF division in my Department. We want to ensure we get drawdown quickly and we are there as willing partners to make sure the funding is given out and that these projects can commence. We are keen to advance them but there were construction delays. There is a financial gap for some of these projects but we are keen to ensure progress over the coming months.