Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 13 Oct 2022

Vol. 1027 No. 6

Ceisteanna Eile (Atógáil) - Other Questions (Resumed)

Deputy Emer Higgins

I welcome our distinguished guests.

I thank the Minister for his response. The core funding scheme, Together for Better, which, as the Minister stated, started last month, is a significant move in the right direction. I believe it is the first important step in revolutionising the childcare sector and how we treat and value childcare providers.

I am really pleased to hear that update that over 4,000 childcare providers have already signed up, a quarter of which are in Dublin. As a result, these providers will see an increase in funding to early learning and childcare services to support improvements when it comes to staff wages along with that commitment to parents when it comes to freezing of fees.

Almost three quarters of those working in the sector will see their wages rise, with the wages of half of all employees in the sector expected to rise by 10% or more and the wages of 20% of employees expected to raise by 20% or more. That is so important and it is fantastic to see.

However, I would like to raise a concern that has come my way. Some staff feel that with the new wage deal, long service is not being recognised and there is no payscale that is incremental. I wonder if this is something that the Minister could look at.

I welcome the Minister's comments in relation to Dublin childcare providers in the area and having engaged so successfully with them. I might just take this opportunity to remind the Minister of an outstanding invitation to come out to visit Junior Genius in my constituency, which is doing pioneering work when it comes to children's mental health, something in which we really need to invest.

Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (Deputy Roderic O'Gorman)

I thank Deputy Higgins. I had a couple of statistics ready for Deputy Richmond in terms of his constituency. For Deputy Higgins's own interest, in south Dublin, where her constituency is, we have an 87% take up of core funding. It is a little less than the national average but still a very strong take up.

As I was saying to Deputy Funchion earlier, when we introduced core funding we saw it very much as supporting the wages of childcare professionals. Deputy Higgins set out how 73% of childcare professionals, or 25,000 childcare professionals, will see pay increases because of the pay agreement this Government brought in. However, another key extra bonus of core funding is an increase in capacity. We are seeing capacity increase from what it was in 2019. We are seeing it where we really need it, that is, in the baby rooms and in the toddler rooms, the under ones and the under threes, respectively, where we had a real under supply. That is because they are more expensive and core funding is giving services more money to support the higher ratios of staff in those rooms.

Deputy Emer Higgins

I welcome that we are able to increase capacity. The baby rooms and the toddler rooms, as the Minister says, are where the new need is arising and coming on stream.

We have an under supply of childcare in many areas within my constituency. Newcastle is a prime example of that where many parents are not able to get their children into childcare providers and, therefore, cannot go back to work or must make alternative arrangements.

As the Minister said, this funding was also there to help support people who want to make a career in childcare. It is so important that we make careers in childcare attractive because that is a strong workforce that we absolutely need. That is particularly true in Dublin which, I am sure the Minister will appreciate, is an expensive place for those childcare workers to live.

Childcare workers provide an essential service that we could not do without and that deserves recognition. I thank the Minister and the Department for providing that recognition through this core funding model.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I did not answer the Deputy's original question in terms of payscales. Under the employment regulation order, we have a payscale set in terms of qualifications at present rather than longevity of service. The basic rate is €13 per hour. If one is a graduate, if one is a manager or if one is a graduate manager, there are six different payscales.

The money we have for the second year will allow us to make some changes. For example, people must have three years' post-graduate experience to get the graduate uplift. We are looking to reduce this in the second year through the additional investment. A long-term increment is something that can be looked at in the future. I have always said I want to grow funding. It is not something we will be able to do in the first or second year but we have a mechanism now to support childcare workers and the services in which they work. This is something we can look to develop.

Question No. 101 taken with Written Answers.

Ukraine War

Steven Matthews

Question:

102. Deputy Steven Matthews asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the number of persons from Ukraine who are being housed in private properties in which the owner is in receipt of the recognition payment; if he will provide an update on the number of pledged properties which have been deemed suitable for the placement of a person or family from Ukraine; the number of such people who have been placed in pledged accommodation to date; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [50217/22]

Deputy Marc Ó Cathasaigh

What is the number is the number of persons housed in private properties where the owner is in receipt of the recognition payment? Will the Minister provide an update on the number of pledged properties deemed suitable for the placement of a person or family from Ukraine? What is the number of people who have been placed in pledged accommodation to date? Will the Minister make a statement on the matter?

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

Since the outbreak of the war in Ukraine on 24 February, and the invoking of the temporary protection directive by the European Union shortly afterwards, my Department has worked intensively as part of the cross-governmental response to the Ukraine crisis. The operational challenges brought about by responding to the conflict are significant. Our country has never experienced an influx of displaced persons such as the one that we have seen over recent months.

My Department is focused on the immediate, short-term accommodation needs of those who have fled here. To date, more than 53,000 people have arrived in Ireland. Approximately 41,500 of these have been referred to the Department seeking accommodation from the State. Overseeing provision of accommodation on this scale during this timeframe for all those who require it remains very challenging. Due to the urgent need to source accommodation, a broad range of accommodation types have been contracted. The priority is to place people fleeing the conflict in safe and secure accommodation. The Government is committed to delivering a humanitarian response to welcome people seeking protection in Ireland as part of the European Union's overall response. The scale of response to this crisis has been unprecedented and the Irish people have displayed an incredible level of generosity in their support and pledges of accommodation.

I can advise the Deputy that as of the week ending 2 October 2022, the recognition payment was being paid in respect of 2,870 properties accommodating 6,148 beneficiaries of temporary protection. Of these approximately 4,500 have come through the pledge process. We were also very clear that people accommodating Ukrainians who did not go through the official pledge process would also be supported. It has been left as open as possible. There are 4,500 people accommodated through the pledge process. This is more than 10% of the overall population of Ukrainians accommodated here. It is a great support to our Department's accommodation efforts.

Deputy Marc Ó Cathasaigh

It is a large number of people to accommodate an incredibly short timeframe. We lose sight of this at times. Of course we are right to expect a Government response but this has only been in place since February and there has been an incredible influx of people. It is fair to say that structures created to deal with much smaller numbers of people were overwhelmed. The Minister acknowledged that Irish people have shown an incredible level of generosity and they absolutely have. We have opened our hearts and communities. Many people offered to open their doors. It is fair to say there was a level of frustration from people who pledged accommodation. Some were contacted repeatedly with the same questions and others were contacted and then left out in the cold. Is this something we need to look at? Is there more to be unlocked? Unfortunately the end of this crisis is not in sight just yet.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

The war in Ukraine has generated the biggest movement of population on the European continent since the Second World War. It is happening miles from us so sometimes we forget that this is the scale of what we are doing. There are 1.2 million people in Poland, 800,000 people in Romania and Hungary and 450,000 people in Czechia. I was recently speaking to the Commissioner from Czechia. It is having a huge impact in Ireland. Ireland's numbers compared to some of these countries are small, at 53,000 at this stage, but we are a smaller country and we have an ongoing housing crisis and it has put us under real pressure.

The Deputy is right about the operation of the pledge process. It was not perfect. It was far from perfect at the start. Right now 4,500 people are being accommodated in properties throughout the country, which is more than 10% of the Ukranian population here. This is a very important support for the State's efforts to meet the needs of Ukrainians.

Deputy Marc Ó Cathasaigh

I acknowledge this. It is a huge commitment for people to open their doors and give this type of shelter to a family. It has to be acknowledged. There is a recognition payment but it has to be acknowledged through more than money. The Minister referenced that it is the job of the Department to respond to the short-term needs. Pledged accommodation is not a long-term solution. For somebody to have this generosity over four, five or six months is some undertaking. I do not think we can expect it over a five-year period. Are we beginning to plan for long-term solutions as well as short-term solutions? Unfortunately we do not see an end in sight to the conflict. We must also acknowledge that many of those who have travelled here from Ukraine have their children in school here and they may have begun to work. This is all very welcome. They may not be going home. Are we beginning to put plans in place for this?

Deputy Fergus O'Dowd

We are speaking about women and children. I accept that the policy of the Department is to assist them all. What happened in Killarney is entirely unacceptable. Will the Minister set up an independent advocacy service for Ukrainian people who have serious complaints about the way they are being treated? When I sent a complaint to the Department, without prejudice, seeking an independent inquiry by the Department, the service provider and the local authority went to the women and their children and told them they should not have gone to a public representative and that we had no role in dealing with the issue. People have been shouted at and intimidated. They have been punished for coming to me. One of the complaints was that a service provider employee threatened that people would be sent back to Ukraine if they did not withdraw their complaints. This is totally unacceptable. We need an independent advocacy service so that Ukrainian women and children will be properly and appropriately listened to and serious complaints will be independently investigated. What happened in County Louth is unacceptable. The Department has not got back to me. I know it was not the Minister personally. The Department has not come back to me with an answer on how it will deal with the complaint. This happened more than six weeks ago.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

Deputy O'Dowd has raised serious issue. I hope it is known to all Deputies that if a serious issue such as this arises they should come to me. This is something I need to know about. I am happy to speak to Deputy O'Dowd after Question Time about this issue. We will look to get a resolution.

The point made by Deputy Ó Cathasaigh is important with regard to looking to the medium and long term and the level of supports that will be needed for the Ukrainian community here. This will be a key element in the next Cabinet subcommittee meeting that will discuss putting in place medium- to long-term plans. Many European countries are also doing the same in recognition that the war is ongoing and attacks on civilian targets continue and have got worse, as we have seen in recent weeks. Ireland and all European countries need to recognise the humanitarian consequences for all our countries will be for a longer period of time and we need to prepare for this.

Parental Leave

Brian Leddin

Question:

103. Deputy Brian Leddin asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth if he will outline the various types of family and caring leave that have expanded in Ireland over the past ten years; if his attention has been drawn to any data measuring how beneficial this has been to families in this time; the plans under consideration for the future provision of leave; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [50606/22]

Deputy Marc Ó Cathasaigh

Before I put this question I want to acknowledge that the Minister will take Second Stage of the Work Life Balance and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2022 later this afternoon. I acknowledge the work the Government has been doing on an ongoing basis on the well-being framework. Will the Minister outline the various forms of family and caring leave that have been expanded in Ireland over the past ten years? Has his attention been drawn to any data measuring how beneficial they have been to families during this time? What are the plans for future provision that are under consideration? Will the Minister make a statement on this?

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

There have been significant advances in the provision of family leave in recent years. Since coming into office I have prioritised the expansion of types of family leave in line with Government policy and European legislation. The Parent's Leave and Benefit Act 2019 provides working parents with an entitlement to seven weeks of paid parental leave for each relevant parent, to be taken in the first two years after the birth or adoptive placement of a child.

The intention of that leave is to enable parents to spend time with their child in the earliest years. When this Government took office, the leave amounted to two weeks per parent per year. That has now been increased by five weeks, bringing it to seven weeks. I have done this in conjunction with the Minister, Deputy Humphreys. Having talked to some of my friends who are at that stage of life, I know it is a measure that is making a real difference. In addition, the legislation has been corrected to address an anomaly whereby male same-sex adopting parents could not avail of paid adoptive leave.

As the Deputy mentioned, the work life balance Bill was before the Dáil yesterday and will resume today. Under the Bill, parents and carers will have the right to request flexible working, in line with Article 9 of the EU directive, and five days unpaid leave per year for medical care purposes will be introduced. The Bill will also extend the current entitlement to breastfeeding or lactation breaks, under the Maternity Protection Acts, from six months to two years. This is a significant measure. As so many women take up their full entitlement of maternity leave, which they are right to do, they do not get to avail of the right of breastfeeding breaks. The fact that the cut-off point will no longer be six months and will increase to two years will be of significance benefit to women returning to work after giving birth. On Committee Stage, we will bring in five days' paid domestic violence leave. This is important legislation for which there is strong support across the House and I look forward to introducing these measures.

Deputy Marc Ó Cathasaigh

The question was tabled by Deputy Leddin. The timeframe of the question is interesting in that it covers the past ten years. My oldest child is now ten years old. I was teaching at the time of his birth and remember well that I had three days' leave, and by the time I had the second fella, it had been extended to two weeks' leave. It moved away from the perception that what dad was doing after the birth of a child was going to a pub. Those days off were not of benefit to me. They were a huge benefit to my wife and infant, who had arrived at the house. Much of the early routine was established during the longer two-week period, and now the length of the leave has been extended again. It is hugely important for things that can be overwhelming such as the first nappy, which was quite an experience, and for mums settling into a breastfeeding routine and getting through the period of chronic lack of sleep in the first few weeks. All these measures are so important and welcome.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

Central to what we are trying to do is to support the rebalancing of those caring responsibilities and move away from the perception, as described by the Deputy, of what mam and dad are doing at this time. That is why parents' leave is not transferable, and I know there was some criticism of this at the time, but that is how it has to be. There are seven weeks for the mother and seven weeks for the father. If he does not take up the leave, that is fine, but it will not be transferred. It is there to support fathers and families to do those things, which I believe is the right approach.

As to the importance of breastfeeding, our colleague, Senator Pauline O'Reilly, tabled a motion in the Seanad yesterday on medical and other supports in that regard. This measure is a practical support to encourage mothers to be able to do that and to ensure work places recognise the importance of this and provide the additional time.

Deputy Marc Ó Cathasaigh

I described a typical family setting in my case, but it is important that those rights are extended to same sex-couples. What we are doing in terms of domestic violence leave is also extremely important. These measures are underpinned by a thriving economy, but the economy works for society; it is not the other way around. We are seeing that reflected in some of the changes made by the Government. I mentioned the well-being framework, which is an important way of reviewing our economy and its place in facilitating society. These measures are hugely beneficial, many of which are small and will only reach a small percentage of the population. However, for the percentage of the population that these measures, such as the domestic violence leave, reach it will be hugely significant and important to them, and I hope we continue to make progress in this regard.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

The Government has recognised, in the programme for Government, the epidemic of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, DSGBV, and is introducing a range of measures, which the Minister, Deputy McEntee, is leading. This is an action I can take in my Department to support victims, recognising their risk of falling into poverty as a result of being a victim of DSGBV.

On family leave being good for the economy, it is also good for society and that is what we are trying to do. We are trying to support families in those early days when there are many pressures. Another initiative we are working on is the pilot on baby bundles, which I will roll out later this year. I admit it is a small pilot programme but it is to start that process and put in place a range of basic but important items at the start of a child's life, as well as linking the new family, who receive this gift from the State, to those important services and supports. This programme will be very beneficial. I look forward to rolling out the pilot and hope to see a positive evaluation emerging from it.

Question No. 104 taken with Written Answers.

Departmental Reviews

Matt Carthy

Question:

105. Deputy Matt Carthy asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth when he expects to receive the comprehensive review of the disabled drivers and disabled passengers scheme. [50588/22]

Deputy Matt Carthy

I ask the Minister for an update on the review of the disabled drivers and disabled passengers scheme. The scheme has provided supports for those who have been able to avail of it but it has been described by the Ombudsman as "excessively restrictive". It has been the subject of a Supreme Court ruling and its deficiencies have led to the resignation of the entire board of appeals.

Deputy Anne Rabbitte

I thank the Deputy for tabling this question. The disabled drivers and disabled passengers scheme is the responsibility of the Minister for Finance and is administered by the Department of Finance and the Revenue Commissioners. It provides relief from vehicle registration tax and VAT on the purchase of adapted car, as well as an exemption from motor tax and an annual fuel grant. The scheme is open to severely and permanently disabled persons as a driver or as a passenger as well as certain charitable organisations.

In response to concerns raised on access to the scheme and the relevant qualifying criteria, my colleague, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, committed to undertaking a comprehensive review of the scheme. Legislative and budgetary responsibility for the scheme continues to lie with the Department of Finance, which will be able to address granular queries on the current status and operation of the scheme and any dedicated review thereof.

Consideration of the disabled drivers and disabled passengers scheme has taken place in the context of action 104 of the national disability inclusion strategy. The NDIS transport working group, which was established in 2020 to advance action 104, has a specific objective derived from the make work pay report of 2017 to co-ordinate actions across Government on transport and mobility supports for people with disabilities and to enhance the options for transport to work or employment for people with disabilities. Action 104 commits that a review of existing Government-funded transport and mobility schemes will be conducted with a view to developing proposals for the development of a co-ordinated plan for delivery of transport supports for persons with disabilities.

Following engagement last year between the Ministers, Deputies O'Gorman and Donohoe, it was decided the disabled drivers and disabled passengers scheme would be included in the transport working group's holistic review and development of next-steps proposals as part of its work. The disabled drivers and disabled passengers scheme was discussed by the transport working group in its most recent meeting in September 2022.

Deputy Matt Carthy

I thank the Minister of State for her reply, but there is nothing in it with which I can bring back to my constituents, who have raised concerns on this issue, that would provide them with any assurances.

I wish to correct the Minister of State on one point. The Minister for Finance did not act at the behest of concerns that were raised, because concerns have been raised about this scheme for years. The Minister acted as a result of a Supreme Court ruling that essentially forced the Government to introduce emergency legislation. Unfortunately, the emergency legislation ring-fenced the existing criteria, which are far too strict. They set out that in order to avail of this grant a person has to have lost a limb. There is nothing more frustrating than talking to people who cannot leave their house due to their disability or their in ability to access a car and are being told by a Department that they are not disabled enough to receive support. I ask the Minister of State, who is committed to these issues, to ensure this is prioritised, in the first instance, by the Department of Health.

I do not believe that the Department of Finance will act unilaterally on this matter. It will only act if it is forced to.

Deputy Anne Rabbitte

I thank the Deputy. My Department is completely committed to ensuring that people with disabilities have access to transport, whether through the disabled drivers scheme, local transport or ensuring that Bus Éireann makes provisions for services for people with disabilities in its bus system. However, I have to be fair in terms of the working group. The Department of Finance attended the meeting and its representatives were very forthcoming on what it will cost and how we consider restructuring because it is restrictive. The current restrictive scheme, related to primary medical certificates, costs €64 million on an annual basis. That does not include other forms of transport which include disabilities. They cost hundreds of millions of euro. We are carrying out a complete review.

I agree the scheme is far too restrictive and does not take into consideration children with behavioural issues or people who have Parkinson's disease or multiple sclerosis. Such people have all their limbs, but may be excluded from the scheme. That is the purpose of the working group.

Deputy Matt Carthy

I refer to the board of appeal. The entire board resigned en masse almost a year ago. My understanding is that it has proven very difficult for the Department to find others to sit on the board, precisely because they are being put into an impossible situation. They are adjudicating on heartbreaking appeals and the criteria set down means they have no flexibility in awarding payments. What is the update in respect of reinstating the board of appeal, considering more than 670 people are awaiting the outcome of appeals?

My next question relates to the budget. No additional funding for the scheme was announced in the budget. That would lead me to fear that there is no real ambition in the Department of Finance to expand the criteria of the scheme. Will provision be made for emergency additional funding to be provided if the criteria are expanded?

Deputy Anne Rabbitte

I will answer the last question first. If I was in the Deputy's position, I would table a Priority Question to the Minister for Finance, who could answer that question.

Regarding the board of appeal, the Deputy is correct in saying that it is very difficult to fill the board because GPs have recognised that it is far too restrictive. To be fair to the nine CHOs where the first assessment has been completed, they are fully operational. They are getting through the assessment of needs process. It is only at an appeal level that we do not have a board. It is to be hoped the Minister, Deputy Donnelly, will be able to make a recommendation for five people who could go on it.

Domestic, Sexual and Gender-based Violence

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

Question:

106. Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth if he will provide the details of the proposals on domestic violence leave; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [50289/22]

Deputy Alan Farrell

On behalf of Deputy Carroll MacNeill and on my own behalf, I wish to acknowledge the work the Minister is doing regarding the provision of domestic violence leave. It is, of course, a core element of Government policy on sexual, domestic and gender-based, violence. I would like to obtain information on the scheme. I would also like categorically draw a line in this House under the rather tone deaf and objectionable remarks made by IBEC last week on certification being sought for such leave. I am certain the Government will put its foot down on that.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I thank the Deputy. Since its formation, the Government has made it clear that tackling domestic, sexual and gender-based violence is a key priority. I am conscious of the risk of poverty that those fleeing domestic violence face. The programme for Government contained a commitment to investigate the feasibility of providing paid leave and social protection supports for victims of domestic violence. The Government has approved the drafting of Committee Stage amendments to the Work Life Balance and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill to provide for a form of domestic violence leave. The amendment will amend the Parental Leave Act 1998 and provide for five days paid leave for victims of domestic violence. The provisions will be guided by the recommendations of the report on domestic violence leave, but will not include a requirement for proof. It is to hoped that will address the concern raised by the Deputy.

Once they meet their statutory obligations, employers are free to provide a more extensive and entitlement to employees. Employers in the State and private sectors have already brought in provisions on this. In line with the recommendations of the domestic violence leave report, the Department will also commission templates and other supports for individual employers to develop their domestic violence workplace policies intended to foster a culture of openness and support for employees who may be experiencing domestic violence. This is important because I engaged with trade unions, sexual and gender-based violence, SGBV, groups and employers on this issue.

There are some concerns around employers because of the sensitivity of this issue. I do not believe it is enough that we should bring in proof of requirement, and that is why we will not be doing so. However, we need to support employers, from the very big to the very small, in how they implement this leave and, more generally, how they support an employee who is a victim of domestic violence. That is why we will work on a range of policies. My Department will develop template policies which can be used to support employers, so that an employer without a large HR department will be supported in terms of addressing this leave and the wider supports for victims.

Deputy Alan Farrell

I thank the Minister. I very much appreciate him outlining the detail on domestic violence leave. The five days is very welcome. This measure has been introduced at an appropriate time, given the unfortunate rise in the number of cases of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence across the State. Some rather alarming figures were provided to me by An Garda Síochána recently. Women, in particular, but not exclusively, who are in fear of their safety, have been isolated from the families and are under immense pressure financially deserve the support of the State in amount any measure we can introduce to assist them in getting through a very difficult time.

I was conscious of the Minister's remark that encapsulating support within the Department of Social Protection is critical. The Government, which the Minister is part of and which I am a supportive member of, cannot take just one step. It has brought in multiple steps which are equally important, such as rent support for individuals who have tried to extract themselves from horrible situations.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I thank the Deputy. What we are doing with this paid leave is significant. We will be the second EU country to bring in paid domestic violence leave and one of a handful internationally. We are very much on the cusp in terms of our response. It part of a recognition of the general zero tolerance approach the Government is taking to this issue.

Due to the fact it is new, the legislation will build in a review after two years to examine the take-up, whether any issues have arisen and whether we should increase the five days of leave. It is important to have such a review because it is new and innovative. We have to have an understanding of how it works and the opportunity to make changes and tweaks to the system. It is something the SGBV groups have welcomed across the country. Trade unions have pushed this in individual firms and the State sector, and it is something they have strongly welcomed.

Deputy Alan Farrell

I thank the Minister. As the Minister outlined, it is critical that employers and unions are brought in to work with small companies that may not have a HR department on what supports they can offer their valued employees. The step being taken by Government is showing the sort of compassion required in these circumstances. As part of the overall strategy across all Departments the Minister and I have mentioned, it is a step that will be meaningful to individual victims and, most important, build on the other supports that may be introduced in the near future.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I thank the Deputy. That is why we are bringing forward the policy development element. We will commission independent work on the development of those policies.

There is some nervousness. Some of the groups representing some small employers flagged nervousness with us regarding the sensitivity of these issues. Ireland is a small country. People who know the victim may also know the perpetrator. People are wondering about the legal position vis-à-vis the perpetrator once they know such information. To try to address those issues and provide meaningful support to all businesses, in particular small and medium-sized enterprises, we will introduce policies on addressing the application of the new leave provisions and the wider response, in particular supporting their employees to remain in work and recover, following the abuse that they suffered.

Questions Nos. 107 and 108 taken with Written Answers.

Mother and Baby Homes Inquiries

Bríd Smith

Question:

109. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth if his attention has been drawn to the widespread anger at his recent decision not to engage an international legal expert to review testimonies given to the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes and Certain Related Matters; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [50631/22]

Deputy Bríd Smith

I have just 30 seconds to ask the Minister an important question. His decision not to engage an international expert to review the report on mother and baby homes has been met with widespread anger across that community. Will he make a comment on the fact that this report will remain the official report of the State, despite its outrageous conclusion and misleading slant on the testimonies given? I am sure the Minister will probably have to give me a written answer but the issue is very important and it is creating widespread anger in that community.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I always recognise the importance of the testimonies of those who appear before the confidential committee. That is why I went to some length to secure the audio recordings of those who did so when those testimonies were believed to be lost or deleted. I know many of the witnesses describe their personal experiences to the confidential committee and they did so feeling that their words would form part of the historical record. That did not happen. Their testimonies were abbreviated, truncated and, sometimes, combined. I will seek to address that in the initiative I am bringing forward either to allow the recordings from the confidential committee or to allow survivors to come forward to give a new account and testimony of their time in these institutions but also to allow survivors who did not appear before the confidential committee ensure that their words form part of the historical record and a key element of the records of the memorial centre that the Government will also bring forward.

Is féidir teacht ar Cheisteanna Scríofa ar www.oireachtas.ie.

Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website.