Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 21 Jun 2023

Vol. 1040 No. 4

Youth Justice Strategy: Statements

Minister of State at the Department of Justice (Deputy James Browne)

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for the opportunity to discuss the progress and impact of the youth justice strategy and our youth justice interventions. Our approach to youth justice in Ireland, informed by international standards, is that children in conflict with the law are still children. They are entitled to dignity, respect and access to services that will promote reintegration into their communities and wider society. Youth justice interventions are not about young people avoiding punishment or consequences. They are about recognising that many young people who stray from the proper path simply need support and direction to get their lives back on track. That is why preventing offending behaviour and diverting children and young people from further involvement with the criminal justice system are at the heart of what we do.

The Youth Justice Strategy 2021-27 provides a developmental framework to address key ongoing challenges, as well as new and emerging issues in the youth justice area. The focus of the strategy is still very much on children in contact with the justice system, but it also examines more closely why a proportion of young offenders go on to become adult offenders and how this can be better addressed. In that way, the strategy examines how youth justice policy might be more closely aligned to other child and youth policies and towards the promotion of community and local development. In the same way that our approach to community safety now focuses on multi-agency collaboration, the same principle applies to youth justice.

I cannot stress enough the importance of bringing together all the relevant agencies and programmes, including schools, to ensure we provide a holistic response to the needs of children and young people at risk.

My Department has a dedicated youth justice partnership with the internationally recognised Research Evidence into Policy, Programmes and Practice, REPPP, team at the University of Limerick, which is guiding the development of programmes and practices within the framework of the youth justice strategy. This includes the REPPP action research project, which aims to co-design and implement new guidance on effective practitioner and young person relationships in youth diversion projects, YDPs. This has been done using 16 YDP sites nationwide and involving them in a trial process over two years. REPPP is also providing dedicated research and expert support, including best practice support for the nationwide project network to roll out expanded and additional YDPs to ensure fully national coverage.

As Deputies will be aware, our network of youth diversion projects across the country acts as a vital support to the statutory Garda youth diversion programme. The youth justice strategy commits to the broadening and deepening of services provided by YDPs and acknowledges the importance of early intervention and family support programmes for children at risk, as well as access to appropriate education, training and youth services. I have seen first-hand the positive impact these projects have on the young people they welcome through their doors and the wider communities in which they are based. This is why I am ambitious for the future when it comes to our youth diversion projects.

My intention is to develop this service so that it is available to every child in the State who could benefit from it, through an ongoing expansion of existing services and the foundation of new projects where necessary. We currently have over 100 YDPs in operation and the intention of this year’s justice plan, under the youth justice strategy, is to provide full geographic availability of youth diversion services by the end of 2023. YDPs engage with young people through a range of supports, including education, employment support, social enterprise initiatives and personal development supports such as mentoring and personal development activities.

YDPs have traditionally worked with young people under the supervision of juvenile liaison officers, JLOs. The youth justice strategy formalises a wider mandate for the projects, including undertaking early intervention work with younger children identified as being on a trajectory to later involvement in crime and antisocial behaviour, providing family support for the families of participants, supporting schools to retain YDP participants in the education system and working with harder-to-reach young people on an outreach basis. Young people in this last category include those deemed not suitable for the statutory Garda youth diversion programme.

Where young people in this category are before the courts the probation service may have a mandate to work with them, but otherwise there may be little service provision in communities that can respond effectively to their needs and the challenges they pose. It has been estimated that there may be some 1,000 young people in the State who are prolific offenders and responsible for half of all youth crime. These children and young people most involved in crime and antisocial behaviour are very often known to a range of other services and present with complex needs and behaviours. Individual public services in the youth, family and social inclusion areas cope well with more straightforward cases but can struggle to deal with this type of complexity, especially in the cases of young people who do not engage.

My Department is working with colleagues in all other relevant Departments and agencies at national and local levels in six potential pilot areas to develop a joint commissioning approach to implement the no wrong door principle to ensure there is a cohesive response by public services to this group of young people. The pilot will be supported by the REPPP team in the University of Limerick. Essentially, the idea is that we will map the availability of current services in each of these areas, map the target group of young people in the area, identify the gaps in necessary services and bring all relevant statutory and community voluntary services together in an integrated response to the needs and challenges identified. I will announce further details of how the pilots will operate later in the year.

In budget 2023, I secured a further €2.5 million in funding for youth justice services, increasing the total budget allocation for youth diversion projects and other youth justice projects to just over €30 million. Every cent invested in building better outcomes for young people and diverting them away from the criminal justice system pays back in spades. This funding is being deployed with the assistance of the best available research and expert evidence to keep young people away from crime. Our YDPs and the diversion programme have proven to be very successful in improving outcomes for young people and offering guidance and support for their families. We need to keep building on this work.

I recently launched an extensive evaluation report on the YDPs, which we will utilise to develop our understanding of the structure, conduct and impacts of YDPs. I was pleased to see that the evaluation acknowledged many existing strengths, including a strong alignment between our youth justice policy and the objectives of individual YDPs. The people working in our YDPs were found to be experienced and highly qualified and they reported strong levels of satisfaction in their work. Key relationships, such as those between youth justice workers and juvenile liaison officers, are strong across the board and it is positive to see this being the case. The report also found that the range of interventions offered by YDPs continues to be responsive to the diverse and complex needs of individuals, their families and local communities. Perhaps most importantly, it is clear that the positive impacts are being felt by participants, families and our communities. I commend the tireless efforts of everyone involved for the terrific work they do, which really makes a difference to the lives of the young people and the communities they work in.

We all want our communities to be safe places in which people can live, work and bring up their families. Youth justice interventions are not about avoiding punishment or consequences. This is about dignity and respect. It is about recognising that many young people who do stray from the proper path simply need support and direction to get their lives back on track. It is about ensuring young people can make better life decisions and about giving them a chance. I strongly believe that by improving outcomes for young people at risk of a life of criminality, we can make a real and long-term difference to the quality of life of these young people and their whole communities.

Deputy Mark Ward

Youth justice and the right for our young people to be young people are priorities for how this State should operate. Every child and young person deserves the right to reach their full potential. I have said this often in the Chamber and it is true concerning mental health and also in youth justice. Young people are our future and we must invest in them.

A troubling trend prevalent in organised crime for some time now has been the grooming of minors into criminality. Criminals offer a lifestyle of flashy clothes and quick money to young people, whom they use in the sale and running of drugs. Let me be clear that these criminals are nobodies and they suck the lifeblood of young people from our communities. They do not run our communities. Our communities are run by hardworking and decent people. Our communities, however, have been let down by successive governments through a lack of funding and low Garda resourcing. Our young people in these communities are being left behind as a result.

Sinn Féin has long pointed to community resilience as being paramount in the prevention of crime in our communities. The lack of investment by the Government is directly facilitating crime to take place. My Sinn Féin colleagues and I have put forward several items of legislation to tackle crime in our communities. For example, Deputies Martin Kenny, Denise Mitchell and I introduced the Coercion of a Minor (Misuse of Drugs Amendment) Bill 2022 last year. This proposed legislation would make it a stand-alone offence for criminals to engage young people in drug-related crimes with a maximum penalty of ten years. We must be tough on those who groom young people into engaging in crime.

Young people engaged in criminality should have to face the appropriate justice. In the case of minor offences, though, they should be diverted away from the justice system. I stress the minor offences aspect. We are in favour of the Garda YDPs. Consideration should be given to extending the age limit eligibility for the diversion programmes from 18 to 25. I know the Government is considering extending this age limit to 24. To be consistent with other areas, and I refer in this context to the future of mental healthcare, as outlined in the Sharing the Vision policy, which states that care for young people should be extended to the age of 25, I believe the same should be the case with youth diversion. We need to see this uniform approach.

Research has shown that people in this age group are vulnerable to being groomed into crime as they have often been exposed to criminal activity as minors. Those aged 18 to 25 make up the highest percentage of the prison population. This tells me that young people are being let down as children and then being let down again as they become young adults. Extending the age for eligibility for diversion programmes to 25 could reduce the numbers of people in prison, which are already overcrowded. This change could keep our young people in our communities and give them every opportunity to contribute positively to our society.

I referred to community resilience.

This is the best approach to reducing crime, in particular among young people. Two years ago, Deputy Ó Murchú and I introduced the proceeds of crime Bill that would reinvest money seized by the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB, into the communities it has been taken out of. The Government has come along with this. I have often referenced the mother who took out a credit union loan to repay the drug debts of her children. The money is being robbed from these areas and not returned.

In the last round of the community safety fund launched by the Government, six groups in my area applied for funding and not one was successful. Parts of my area are some of the most disadvantaged in the State. With proper resourcing, communities like mine can become strong and flourish. Young people can have the best opportunity to reach their full potential.

The national youth justice strategy calls for a cross-departmental approach to address youth crime. One community group I have referenced several times in the Chamber could benefit from a cross-departmental approach. It is one of the groups which applied for the community safety fund and was not successful. The Clondalkin Equine Club is a project that teaches young people the importance of responsible urban horsemanship. The club is based in a purpose-built facility that stables 20 horses. The project was brought about to tackle the issue of horses being kept in a disadvantaged community. Since the club has been in operation, the number of horses being seized by South Dublin County Council has dramatically reduced. The club has had some great outcomes with young people, some of whom have gone on to careers in showjumping and racing.

There are also the unwritten statistics of people who have engaged with the project and who could have gone into a life of crime or who could have been vulnerable to criminals on their community. They are in a safe place, something that needs to be recognised. It is an invaluable resource for my community but the board is struggling to get long-term funding. It is being passed from pillar to post and is never given certainty. I have called for a cross-departmental approach to funding. Funding for the club could easily come through from the Departments of Agriculture, Food and the Marine; Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth; Education; Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media; and Justice. Despite my best efforts, no one is willing to sit down and take on this on a cross-departmental basis.

I have raised this matter with every Minister, barring the Minister for Justice. I am taking this opportunity to do so now. I have invited other Ministers to view the project and to date they have not accepted the invitation. I want to take this opportunity to invite the Minister of State to visit the Clondalkin Equine Club and see at first hand the benefits it has for the community.

Young people should have active engagement in decisions about their lives. I welcome confirmation from the Government that the youth voice will be heard in the citizens' assembly. It is important that this happens. Our youth should have an active role in designing our youth justice system for young people and we encourage their contribution. It is imperative that our younger citizens are listened to in respect of decisions that affect their future. We must hear what country our young people want to envisage for themselves. At 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 28 June, in the Communications Workers Union in Dublin there will be a youth assembly on Irish unity. It will hear contributions from young people and organisations that specialise in youth work about what the future of the island will look like in a united Ireland. Planning for the future must be on a 32-county all-Ireland basis. Young people have a vital role to play in discussions about a new Ireland. Too often, their voices are not heard. I encourage all young people to attend this meeting.

I want to be clear that we must be tough on crime. Serious offences such as violent crime should have serious consequences. Detention must be considered for these serious offences, but effective community resilience and diversion programmes can reduce the number of serious crimes. This must be a priority. As the Minister of State said, early intervention is key.

We must also look for justice for those who are affected by crime. I have worked in organisations in the past that practice restorative justice. It is a practice whereby the victim of a crime can speak with the perpetrator of that crime. It is done through an intermediary in a safe way, directly or indirectly. It will help the person who perpetrated the crime to better understand how their actions have affected others. This sees better outcomes for victims and perpetrators. Restorative justice must be resourced in order that young people involved in crime and those who are victims of crime can have better outcomes.

I also want to talk about Cherry Orchard in my neighbouring constituency. It is a vibrant community despite being a community of trauma. It is the trauma of a disadvantaged area, addiction, mental health and community violence. My colleagues, Deputy Ó Snodaigh and Councillor Daithí Doolan, are working hard to turn this around. We welcome the implementation group that was set up by the Minister, Deputy McEntee, last year after some high-profile and, frankly, very traumatic incidents.

We welcome the financial commitments in the implementation plan. I have two requests. The first is that the community voice is not lost in the implementation plan. Members of the group need to come from the community, community groups and local county councillors. They are the people on the ground who are best informed to contribute to the plan. My second request is that the Government supports a trauma therapy service, which could be the first of its kind in the State, to be delivered by FamiliBase in Cherry Orchard. It has developed a model and is ready to go. I call on the Government to help it deliver it.

I opened my contribution by speaking about the right of every child to reach his or her full potential and giving our young people the best chance in life. We support the national youth justice plan, but we need to see the benefits. We need fewer young people being involved in crime and being detained. We need more young people to be involved in community groups, taking up employment, pursuing education, staying and living in Ireland and, as I said, having the opportunity to be a young person. The State cannot become no country for young people.

Deputy Paul Donnelly

I welcome the publication of the youth justice strategy. I commend everyone who works with young people to try to guide them from the path of criminality to living and contributing to our communities. The strategy will guide a multitude of projects, agencies and support services for young people in our communities. There is no doubt whatsoever that early intervention and prevention of youth coming into the criminal justice system is key.

I note the reference to multiple disadvantages, which includes poverty, children and young people in State care, Travellers, ethnic communities, mental health, neurodiversity, homelessness, childhood trauma, coercive control, addiction, gender difference, disability and individual learning abilities. These are all things I have seen as somebody who has worked in the community for 30 years. Young people have experienced these things, some more than others. I welcome the fact that this has been acknowledged.

For a variety of reasons, it seems that once young people are part of the system, it is difficult for them to chart a different path but it is not impossible. Many young people only flirt briefly with the criminal justice system. For others, it is a long and disastrous journey.

I wish to address a number of issues. The first is family support, be it community or Tusla family support services. As a former family support worker who worked with many families over a 16-year period in the Dublin 17 area, I am concerned that we are looking at inputs and outputs such as how many families we work with and provide short-term interventions for. There is a strong focus on closing a case after a number of months. It is fantastic if people only need a short intervention. However, we know many families need longer term interventions. I am concerned that this long-term support is not fully in place in communities.

I welcome the acknowledgement of the links between youth defendants and socioeconomic circumstances as family welfare issues. We all know these are at the core of many young people and their engagement in criminality. The use of young people by older people and grooming into drug gangs is well known. The new focus on this and people who groom young people is very welcome. Again, it needs to be resourced. I strongly welcome the focus on a holistic wraparound service, but this needs to be funded.

Day in, day out, we all deal with a chronic lack of availability of mental health youth services for children, including children with additional needs who are at huge risk of being sucked into criminal gangs. A young person leaving school early is a huge indicator of potential involvement in antisocial behaviour and crime. The statistics prove this time and again. As someone who worked in an early school leavers project and school completion programme, I know that our service was one of the first to be devastated by the cuts during the recession and has not recovered.

I welcome recommendation 1.2.2 k on page 13 of the youth justice strategy, to "support improved practices for schools, to retain children in the education system who’s behaviour may bring them in contact with the youth justice system".

Again, this has to be followed by funding, by action and by people on the ground who are experienced and who have the skill set to be able to work with these young people. Two of my children are primary school teachers and I worked in an area where there was serious disadvantage, similar to Deputy Ward's area. There were a lot of really difficult situations in schools. I recently spoke with teachers and what they and we are talking about is a DEIS-plus system to enable those schools that are on the front line of working with students and their families who are at serious risk of early school leaving. The resources they have are currently not sufficient and schools in disadvantaged areas are calling for such an enhanced DEIS-plus scheme. Anybody who knows the DEIS scheme knows that one of its key aspects is the ability to work with young people in smaller classrooms; having additional supports and funding; having a teacher who is released to talk to families and parents and to work with them to provide supports and networks; and to help people to network in through things like the child and family support networks and Meitheal. Having the time to do that work is absolutely essential because of the really complex needs some of the children, particularly in the more disadvantaged areas and because of all those things I talked about, namely, poverty, children in State care, ethnic communities, mental health, neurodiversity, homelessness, which is an absolutely huge one, childhood trauma, addiction and so on. Every DEIS school deals with them on a daily basis and unfortunately, those schools say to us that they do not have the resources to be able to intervene effectively at a young age.

Early intervention and prevention are mentioned at the very beginning of this document. If we are serious about early intervention and prevention we must resource them. That is the key. This is a good document but at the same time, this will just be ink on paper unless this strategy is funded and resourced, unless the money is put into people, projects, communities, supporting families, supporting young people to stay in school as long as they possibly can and encouraging them into apprenticeships and college, that is, all those things that provide them with a pathway outside of the trajectory they may be facing because of those difficulties. It will just be another document that we will revisit in six years' time. I may be rude, I know there is a review every year. We will continue to review it and will probably continue to stand here and talk about mental health services. We will probably stand here every year and talk about early intervention and prevention. I welcome this document. There is some really good stuff in it but if we do not resource it or fund it, then I see more children's lives being destroyed and wasted.

Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú

I agree with an awful lot of what my colleagues have said about the youth justice strategy. Some good points are being made and we are making some journey points at present. We know the level of intervention that is required and that starts from very early family supports. We have pilot schemes and programmes at times and I note representatives of Archways, the Changing Lives Initiative and early family support services appeared before the Joint Sub-committee on Mental Health. A pilot is being operated in my own part of the world and elsewhere but we need to be able to offer it to more families. We need interventions way beyond that. The Minister of State and I visited some of the youth diversion projects in Dundalk. He is aware of the level of work that is being done there. The High Voltage Project works from The House in Cox's Demesne and the teams project is in Muirhevnamor where some excellent work is being done. Representatives of The House talk about the necessity of some of the recent funding and about the likes of the youth diversion project having access to a minibus being vital to offering the necessary interventions.

It is also an area in which there are very early interventions for ages eight to 11. When we talk about drug dealing or kids involved in criminality or falling into it, that is the sort of age bracket we are talking about. By the time we talk about youth diversion projects and in some cases, by the time they see a JLO, we are already too far along the road. Some of these early interventions will not be absolutely perfect from the point of view of moving kids, helping their families and moving them away from the journey into the criminal underworld. We will be able to divert some of them, however, and beyond that a relationship will be built. That means that by the time they are dealing with youth diversion projects, there will be that connection and relationship and possibly an ability to have an impact on those children's lives. This is not just about those children; it is about wider society because we all pay the price for every kid we do not save.

As much as we give out about the fact there is not enough building going on, there are areas outside Dundalk in which there have been huge builds recently. In some cases, an element of planning has not been done and we are in need of bus routes, schools and all the rest of it. I am sure that will follow. There is also a need for some of these really early interventions. We know what the issues are. We know where intergenerational trauma has met poverty and the huge work that is done, sometimes by schools and others. However, as Deputy Paul Donnelly noted, we have not necessarily tooled people up properly to be able to deliver. That is the problem. We will fail these people, we will fail these families and we will fail wider society.

We know what is happening. We can talk about the drug problem and we know it is happening across the board. We know it is particularly bad in disadvantaged areas and that this seeps out from time to time. From the calls I get, I am aware there is an element in urban settings where drug dealing is absolutely normalised. Sometimes the complaint is there is no level of discretion in drug dealing; that it is in the street and it is obvious. It has become utterly normalised even for the kids who live in those places sometimes. I deal with the Garda regarding this and I do not have to put on the record again that drug debt intimidation is one of the biggest issues I have to deal with on a daily basis. We really need to put in those pieces to avoid some of this. We all welcome the fact the citizens' assembly is under way. We all know we want to ensure we give the powers to the Garda to deal with these criminal gangs, particularly when dealing with drug debt intimidation and the impact it has on families. We really need to get the intervention piece in place. Some good work is being done and these projects and the work they are doing are having a real impact. However, if we are really serious about youth diversion and the youth justice strategy, we need to put it on steroids compared with what we have at present.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

I welcome the Minister of State to the Chamber. I note that Mr. Deaglán Ó Briain is sitting beside the Minister of State. As one will not find a more committed public servant in the Department or in any Department, it is great to see him here.

I am interested in the remarks the Minister of State has made. He said that his Department is working with colleagues in other relevant Departments and this is welcome, because it is often the case that Departments do not speak to one another as they should. He also said they are working with "agencies at national and local levels in six potential pilot areas to develop a joint commissioning approach to implement the no wrong door principle to ensure there is a cohesive response by public services to this group of young people". I am encouraged by this remark. The pilot will be supported by the REPPP team at the University of Limerick. I am interested in knowing where the six pilot areas are. The Minister of State went on to state, "Essentially, the idea is that we will map the availability of current services in each of these areas, map the target group of young people in the area, identify the gaps in necessary services and bring all relevant statutory and community voluntary services together in an integrated response to the needs and challenges identified." Often when I come into this Chamber and receive a script from a Minister, it feels as though there is not an awful lot in it. However, I think there is something in that. I congratulate the Minister of State on that but I am interested in knowing exactly where these six areas are.

I am the Labour Party’s spokesperson on education on justice. Many people may feel that they are two very separate areas. To be honest, though, they are incredibly linked. Reference was made to the DEIS+ proposal, and I want to focus on that for a second. I have been liaising with a number of principals in the Dublin 17 area, in my own constituency, in west Tallaght and Ballymun. They are advocating for such a strategy to be brought forward to have a different designation within the DEIS programme for schools that are acutely disadvantaged, in the area of trauma. This is because they are talking about children who are lost. I raised this issue with the Minister for Education last night, but if the Minister of State at the Department of Justice is talking about an interdepartmental approach, he needs to hear it as well. Principals are telling me they are losing young people at the earliest of ages. I said this on the record of the House last night, and I will say it again to the Minister of State. I was speaking with one principal who says she has to change the route that they walk to swimming in the morning time because of a local feud. I asked her if she was saying she was afraid that some of her children were going to get shot by mistake. She said “Yes”. She had not thought to phrase it in that way, because this is just what principals do in acutely disadvantaged areas. They just adapt to the situation around them. Yet, she is acutely aware of a feud in the local area. There are guns involved, and she does not want to walk her children into the midst of that. Therefore, she finds a different route to swimming. Is it not utterly depressing that children in a primary school would have to reroute their way to go swimming in the morning, in case one of them gets killed by a bullet?

At the heart of this, and I need the Minister of State to hear what I am saying here, is that 20 years ago, when I first became a primary school teacher in an acutely disadvantaged area, they used to say that once this generation of grannies - particularly grannies - gets older, it will be replaced by the heroin generation and then we will be in trouble. This is because 20 years ago, the grannies kept families and communities together. They predated the heroin epidemic of the 1980s and 1990s. Families could fall back on these grannies. There were also grandads, but they were grannies in the main. We used to say that when members of the heroin generation become grannies and granddads, we will have a problem. We are here now. That dysfunction is unfortunately now here. Society and these communities cannot depend as much as they used to on that generation. They used to step in and mind the little one or the little fellow and provide routine to those lives. On the basis of that, dysfunction is creeping in and young people are getting more distracted than they ever had been before. They are moving away from the mainstream economy and mainstream society into the hands of those who would use them for their own profit. What is being said to me is absolutely appalling. Unfortunately, it is only going to get worse.

The Minister of State has identified six geographical areas and I can only assume where they are. I ask that within those six areas, the Minister of State would consider the three areas I have referenced. I do not like referencing areas in this House because I do not like the reputational damage or the stigmatising that goes with that. However, I cannot hear what they are saying to me without raising it with the Minister of State.

The issue of drugs has been referenced and it is a live issue. In fairness to the Government, it has raised the profile of the debate around drugs. As it is holding a citizens’ assembly on drugs, I believe it is only reasonable and rational that we move to a situation where no young person, or anybody who has a drug issue, would be brought through the criminal justice system. The empowerment of young people through the educational system is key to this. I will make reference very quickly to the FAI report, which was published two weeks ago. It focuses on sports and the poor standard of sporting facilities that are available to many young people. Soccer is the game of many working-class communities. One might not like that or people might not accept it but it is a fact. If there is a poor standard of those facilities, often some people can think that society does not respect them. They think the authorities do not respect them. They think the facilities do not show them respect and therefore, they do not feel respected.

I have a few concluding points. The six areas the Minister of State referenced are welcome. I do not think it is necessarily fair that the Minister of State would name them here in the House, because people will then inevitably ask, “What about these other areas?”. However, I hope those areas include the three I have referenced. I need the Minister of State to take the issue of the heroin generation seriously. I need him to take seriously the issue of trauma-related support for potential DEIS+ schools. They are talking about multidisciplinary teams that would be available to them, such as those that are available in Dublin 1. They are talking about teacher support and trauma-based support. They feel that would be key to not losing any more young people to the clutches of drug gangs etc. The issue of drug-related intimidation, as has been raised by other Deputies, is real and rife. It is unfortunately younger people they often find to do the business for them.

The last point I will make is about integration. In other jurisdictions, they have found in migrant communities that when a family comes to a new country, those who head that family tend to accept whatever abuse or discrimination they come up against. This is because they made the choice to come to a different country. Therefore, they are less likely to react against it. However, the generation that comes after that, who did not make that choice and yet who suffer racism, discrimination and insults are the ones we need to be mindful of in respect of how they are feeling, how they are integrating and how they are being empowered. In any country in the world, it is not a matter of the first generation who comes, but the generation afterwards. They will internalise this friction and negativity and that can go anywhere. We have to take the experience that has happened in other countries on board in order that we do not create a cohort of young people who other people may have discriminatory feelings about because of their ethnicity, even though they are absolutely Irish. They may use racial taunts against them. We must not create a situation whereby they utilise that in a destructive way and find themselves even more alienated from mainstream society. I am careful as I can be with my words, but I think the Minister of State will understand what I am saying.

The Labour Party is happy to work with the Minister of State. There are positive things in this report but certainly, there is no place for us to be complacent.

Deputy Alan Farrell

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the statements on the youth justice strategy. I commend Deputy Mattie McGrath on moving the business of the House along so much. I am standing in for my colleagues who are en route but who will be taking up a later slot.

I listened carefully to the Minister of State’s contribution at the start of this debate, as well as the contributions of other Members. It is very clear that services directed towards the intervention and prevention of crime can play a significant and pivotal role in the lives of young people who are at risk of becoming involved in or indeed who are already entering into a life of crime. The work that is being carried out by the State agencies, An Garda Síochána and indeed the justice system in this respect is to be commended.

I thank all of those who work every day to build safer communities up and down the country. Our aim in this House should be to provide the necessary supports and policy basis to ensure that they can carry out their duties effectively and efficiently in the interests of young people, their families and the wider community. Those necessary supports and that policy direction are not just the remit of the Department of Justice, but that of many other Departments in the State as well. I have heard reference to our education system and to our sporting institutions, which are governed by various different Departments. It is incumbent on all of us to recognise the worth of programmes like the sports capital programme and the very significant impact they can have in communities across the country, particularly where there may be deficiencies in the standard of facilities, as Deputy Ó Ríordáin quite rightly made reference to. Where reasonable facilities are provided, kids and young people will go to them. That is the honest truth of it. If we allow sporting organisations to operate in environments that are less than decent, that can lead to people dropping out, which can have negative consequences for the children involved.

The issues that lead to young people being in situations that put them at odds with the law and with society are complex and diverse. We must therefore recognise that the solutions must cover a wide scope of activities. The motivating factors that lead young people towards crime can change over time. As such, our approach should be regularly reviewed and adapted to maintain the effectiveness of our efforts and of those of other agencies.

For the last 19 years, I have had the privilege of representing a very young community. In fact, it is the fastest growing community in Europe. It is also incredibly ethnically diverse and, as other speakers have said, unfortunately racially based abuse can be targeted at young people and young adults in a most insidious way that knocks their self-confidence and sense of worth and identity. That can have very negative consequences. On a related matter, I will take this opportunity to commend the decision of the under-21 Republic of Ireland team to walk off the pitch this week. If the team is not prepared to tolerate that at an international game, it sends a really good message to young people. I will get the details later. Perhaps the team made the decisions themselves or perhaps it was their manager. I do not know.

We have a body of work to do to provide the necessary supports and policy basis for these youth diversionary tactics and strategies we engage with right across the board. I particularly commend those in communities like Balbriggan, Swords, Lusk and places like that. I refer to all of the sporting organisations, the gardaí themselves, the youth diversionary projects and the likes of Youthreach, which spends considerable time and effort on this matter and to which we need to give more funding on an ongoing basis so that it can support those young people in finding purpose and in accessing education and society at large.

I commend the Minister and the Department on the work they did on the previously published Youth Justice Strategy 2021-2027, which sets out a very wide range of developments aimed at preventing crime and preventing the further development of criminal activity among individuals who have already engaged in it. The strategy sets out aims that will enhance an evidence-based policy approach. Importantly, there is an inbuilt review which I understand is to take place at the mid-point of the strategy's implementation period. This is an important step that will allow us to improve upon what is working well and adjust those aspects of the strategy that are underperforming.

I will take the opportunity to highlight a number of aspects of the strategy. These include the development and work of the governance and strategy group. This group is fundamental to the implementation of the strategy, consideration of the development of a dedicated youth justice service and the enhancement of wraparound supports. These measures provide a framework that allow the relevant authorities to work within and enhance the impact of our efforts. The strategy also sets out a pathway for engagement with our counterparts in Northern Ireland with regard to youth justice strategies. This will facilitate the sharing of information on best practice that will strengthen efforts on both sides of our Border and play a positive role in providing safer communities across the island.

Building a system that involves all of the relevant authorities and the communities themselves will give us the best chance of success into the future. The further development of community-based projects for children and young people who are hard to reach will be an important step in this effort and we must pursue it with vigour to reach some of the most vulnerable children in the country. This should also include projects and programmes that involve schools and teaching staff as well as engagement with families.

The integration forums that are present in quite a number of communities, including communities in Dublin Fingal and Dublin West, do absolutely Trojan work to achieve some really important goals including finding ways to empower young people who come from various countries around the globe. These forums do really significant and good work. It is important to highlight them. I am sure the model is replicated in other constituencies around the country but their work is probably seen most acutely in the suburbs of Dublin.

I will also highlight the role that young people can have in the development of effective policies and procedures. If we engage with and learn from young people who have been through the youth diversion programmes, they can give us an invaluable insight into the approaches that can speak to the needs, fears and barriers facing young people who want to exit criminal lifestyles or lifestyles that subject them to criminal activity. Such engagement can bolster community bonds and increase the impact of attempts to prevent crime and to divert young people from it.

The work of the Garda youth diversion programme is vital to the successful building of social cohesion between communities, gardaí and State services. As the Minister of State highlighted, there are currently 105 such programmes across the State. We should be ambitious in expanding the resources and support infrastructure of these programmes to maximise their ability to have a valuable and life-changing influence on young people and to protect them.

I know the Minister of State and the Minister, Deputy McEntee, are heavily engaged in ensuring that An Garda Síochána is appropriately resourced. We must also strive to provide gardaí with the sort of supports that will allow them to stay within the force. While our public services have an attrition rate of approximately 4% per annum, which is less than the rate for the private sector, the rate of resignations within An Garda Síochána is running at approximately 1%, which is a bit higher than what we usually experience. As a result of the success of our economy and the current jobs market, it is difficult to retain people. There are opportunities in other spheres of security both domestically and across the world. Investing in the career pathway for gardaí gives them a real opportunity to recognise that you can go to Templemore and you can do continuing professional development, which can include specialisation, along with the civilian members of An Garda Síochána to provide the sorts of services that are required within the youth diversionary projects and the general sphere of getting into our schools to talk to students at a relatively young age to show them that gardaí are not just enforcers of the law, but also people who can be relied upon and spoken to and, with a bit of luck, people who can give a bit of good advice to those young people who seek their support. I take the opportunity to highlight that in the few minutes I have remaining.

Finally, I will highlight the role of personnel such as probation officers, juvenile liaison officers and more. These are the very people I referred to in my previous remarks about supporting and enhancing the role they carry out for us. Enhanced resources would ease the stress on the current system and infrastructure and allow children and young people who need these people's time and attention to be provided with it.

I look forward to working with the Minister, particularly in the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, of which I am a member. I also look forward to furthering the goals that are set out in this youth justice strategy and indeed in its midpoint review, which will take place in the next couple of years. I very much look forward to future progress in this regard.

Deputy Seán Crowe

Huge factors in the causes of crime involving young people are poverty, deprivation and disadvantage and, I suppose, the normalisation of certain crime in our communities. Young people and children often fall victim to those who exploit that poverty and use them as drug couriers or sellers. My party colleague, Deputy Ward, has introduced legislation that will make the coercion of a child into drug running or other such crimes a criminal act in itself. Children growing up in poverty and social exclusion are less likely to do well in school, enjoy good health and realise their full potential later in life. They are also at higher risk of becoming unemployed, poor and socially excluded. Children living in poverty live life on the margins, are excluded from opportunities and are often unable to break the cycle of intergenerational poverty that other Members have spoken of. It was reported earlier this year that almost 90,000 children were living in consistent poverty in Ireland in 2022, up by more than 40% in just a year. That was at a time when the State's coffers and the resources were never higher. We are allowing child poverty to worsen and we are ignoring the long-term effects that this will have on these children, their families and communities into the future. We must always seek to be proactive in preventing young people from getting involved in criminality in the first place.

One group that I want to mention today, in particular, is a group in my own area called Connect 4. The project was rolled out last year. It is a pilot project which uses street work to engage young people between the ages of ten and 24 in the greater Tallaght area. It involves a team of workers who engage with young people within the community, build up relations and direct them to support services. The target group is young people who are disconnected from community, family and themselves, often due to drug use, poverty, poor mental health or trauma. These young people often feel let down by the State and may be distrustful of authority figures. By going out and meeting these young people directly, Connect 4 has brought a lot of people in out of the cold, and has connected them to the support services they need. This all ties in with the work of the Tallaght Drug and Alcohol Task Force, a forum which I have been part of. If we want to build healthy, safe and resilient communities, we must tackle income inequality and deprivation. Until then, we must mainstream, support and resource groups like Connect 4 so that we lose fewer young people.

Deputy Pauline Tully

I broadly welcome and support the national youth justice strategy. However, if adequate resources are not put into the various organisations and clubs that are mentioned in the document and there is not meaningful cross-departmental and agency co-operation, it simply will not work. We are talking about crime. There is an imbalance between what is invested in prevention and early intervention and what is put into the prison service at the other end. It is unfortunate, because we have to try and keep as many people as possible from getting involved in crime and ending up in the prison system. The vast majority of young people are good young people. If investment was put into the backgrounds of those who live with poverty and deprivation, we could solve or prevent a lot of problems. The drug problem is escalating everywhere.

As a former teacher, I think the school completion programme was an excellent programme. It still exists, but it is not as strongly resourced. I think there were cutbacks around the time of the recession. We need to put resources into that. The longer we keep young people in school or in training of some sort, the better chance we have of keeping them away from crime, drugs and getting involved in trouble. Sinn Féin has argued that tougher sentences need to be given to criminals who engage children in serious crime. My party colleagues, Deputies Ward, Kenny and Mitchell, introduced the Coercion of a Minor (Misuse of Drugs Amendment) Bill 2022, which will make it a stand-alone crime to use children for drug-associated criminal activity, with maximum sentence of ten years. The Bill has passed Second Stage in the Dáil and should be progressed as soon as possible. The Garda youth diversion programme also does excellent work, but again it needs to be better resourced.

In Cavan we have one of the highest suicide rates in the country, at roughly double the national average. I believe that a lot of them - not all of them - are youth suicides that are very much connected to the misuse of drugs. People are taking drugs and they do not know what is actually in them. Drug taking is causing serious depression and serious problems. We are looking at families who are absolutely devastated by the loss of their young ones. A lot more has to be done in providing youth services, which are seriously lacking in Cavan unless the young people are interested in sport. The different sports clubs there do great work, but there needs to be more investment in young people to keep them away from drugs and crime for as long as possible.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I was following the debate before I came into the Chamber, including the Minister of State's opening contribution. The strategy document is very useful in many ways. If we are to take an evidence-based approach to the subject of diverting children and young people away from crime, there is very clear research both at home and internationally. Some of that is contained in the document. Obviously, this debate is more or less a follow-on from the debate we had last week on young people being brought into crime by adults. It is clear that a holistic approach is necessary, given the evidence of the damage done by adverse childhood experiences. We cannot, for example, welcome additional spending in youth diversion programmes on the one hand, and on the other hand turn a blind eye to the catastrophic damage that is done to children who experience homelessness, even for relatively short periods of time. It is really important that we do not make things worse by not taking an overall approach and recognising where damage can be done.

The first occasion I came across a child who was homeless was in 2013, and the numbers have been increasing ever since then. This child was sharing a car with her parents and I raised the matter in the Dáil. I fear that homelessness, particularly among children, has become normalised, and the sense of outrage and urgency seems to have abated. That is one of the key adverse childhood experiences that has been identified in research. It is most important that we just do not look at the future without looking at the present and where damage can be done. We are talking about catastrophic damage that will have a major social impact into the future.

Other adverse childhood experiences include poverty, family conflict and educational failure, such children being excluded from school. Excluding children from school may well be the convenient option for the schools, and on occasions we have seen it being overused, but in fact, it is incredibly damaging to the children. High crime rates and antisocial behaviour being the norm in particular communities are also adverse childhood experiences. We can really see the profile of it. We saw the impact on the north inner city when the Kinahan-Hutch feud was at its peak. Armed gardaí were on the streets regularly. Children were seeing that as a normal experience, when it is very abnormal. I completely accept that it was done to keep people safe, and I am not criticising the measure. However, I think that we have to appreciate that we are creating adverse childhood experiences in those kinds of situations. We have to find ways of balancing that out. According to the Evaluation of Youth Diversion Projects report:

Studies have shown that the more risk factors a young person accumulates in different domains, the greater the probability that he or she will move onto a trajectory of serious offending ....

The evaluation continues:

The profile of participants in the YDPs reflects the multiplicity of risk factors, with a recent study of young people in the YDPs revealing an 'alarming rate' of adverse childhood experiences (ACEs) with 63% having four or more ACEs compared with 12% in the general population.

It is really is screaming out at us that the evidence is there. We need to address those issues. The Minister of State did say that in his opening statement, and mentioned taking a holistic and a cross-departmental approach. I recognise that.

The study urges the alignment of practices and policies with the needs of a traumatised population. If trauma symptoms go unrecognised or are misunderstood, behaviour may be mislabelled as challenging when in fact it is trauma. This echoes the point Deputy Ó Ríordáin made on DEIS+. Some very specific areas require particular attention because of the nature of some of the offences that are dominant in the area.

I opened by referring to a holistic approach. This requires investment but it also requires patience. The investment is required for generational changes. This does not mean we should not do it because we will not see results between one election cycle and the next. Children who fall into the group of life-course persistent offenders who start antisocial behaviour earlier and continue offending into adulthood are a particular group. This is a very tiny group for whom high-level intervention should happen. I do not think an eight-year-old child should ever be part of a criminal justice model. An entirely different approach needs to be taken. Look at the cost of jailing a person, perhaps multiple times over multiple years, and look at the cost to society. Some of this is captured in the document with regard to the cost of courts and legal aid. If we look at it from a financial perspective, it makes a lot of sense to have a high level of intervention where it is necessary. It makes even more sense socially and for the children themselves.

The report differentiates adolescent offenders where the offending does not continue into adulthood. This does not mean that the offending or antisocial behaviour is excused. It means that different responses are required. Some of this is about investing in good community facilities. The diversion programmes are not available to enough young people. There are very good people involved in them and I acknowledge this. Many motivated people are involved in many of these services but it is a postcode lottery in terms of the outcome of behaviour depending on the availability of services.

In 2013 the then Department of Children and Youth Affairs carried out a systemic mapping of intervention and of literature with regard to youth work. It found there was no internationally agreed definition of youth work but it identified and listed core characteristics. They include respectful relationships, informal community-based settings, good community facilities and building personal and social competencies and capabilities. These produce positive factors in a child's life. The protective factors identified in the report aligned with what is spoken about with regard to youth work.

There is a big difference between youth work and youth justice work. The practice might be the same but the purpose is very different. We have to recognise this. I recall being told by some young people in a north Kildare town that they had to get into trouble to do interesting things. This was because the youth diversion programme appeared to be very enjoyable. This is great but we do not want to exclude other youngsters because of an absence of community facilities. They identified this themselves and I thought it was very interesting that they said so.

Looking at my area, some 71,000 people lived in County Kildare in 1971. There are now 250,000 people living there. It is the county with the lowest age profile. It would not be terribly different from Meath or Fingal. I am looking at how some of the areas are being developed and it is row after row of apartment blocks and houses with not even green spaces. When we are looking to the future, we must look at how we are developing our communities. Building houses is pretty difficult but building communities is equally difficult. The resources have to go into sporting facilities, playgrounds and youth clubs if we are to have a positive approach to developing these communities.

There are some very good things in the report. The holistic approach is very good but it will require investment. We need a cross-departmental and multi-agency approach. We must not differentiate. Youth clubs should include everything and not have a bit here and a bit there. Certainly if a combined holistic approach were taken we would benefit and get far better outcomes. I commend so many of the people involved in the service who have children and young people at heart. We are not looking for criminal or antisocial behaviour to be ignored or for people to be mollycoddled. The approaches have to be different. If there is early involvement in antisocial or criminal behaviour that lasts into adulthood, we pay for it only financially on the other end. Those who are jailed pay for it and society pays for it in terms of the damage done. It is very important that we see this in its totality.

Deputy Matt Shanahan

I am happy to support these statements on the youth justice strategy. There is an old saying that as the tree is bent so it grows. It is very apt. We know the difficulties of growing up in disadvantage and the effects it has on childhood development. The genesis of much of what the strategy speaks to can be found in the early childhood years. Early childhood may not come into contact with the justice system but the strategy needs to find a more comprehensive way to try to target children at the earliest possible age. This is where we can best intervene.

A social worker I met some years ago in the UK who was heavily involved in the community outlined that in his opinion the outlook can be forcefully changed for children aged up to seven years of age. Their biases and attitudes can be changed and the environment they grow up in can be cut across. However after they reach seven years of age this is profoundly more difficult to do. This speaks to some of the behaviour that unfortunately becomes hard-wired and is very difficult to get over.

I welcome the strategy and the cross-agency support the Minister of State is looking for and the management of all of it. It is important to try to target children in early years when they are young and before they come before the justice system. It is very difficult to get onto a different path children aged 12 or 14 who come before the justice system a number of times.

We have spoken in the House a number of times about school meals. We are doing a lot more about them. I will not label any community but I know of quite severe disadvantage in my constituency. I was involved in some community work there previously. School meals have a very important place in trying to get to students in disadvantage early on to make sure they are properly fed and properly nurtured. Then, hopefully, they can get an education.

The Government also has a role to play in sports grants.

In the past number of years, the Government has taken the right approach in really trying to target disadvantage and making sure only those sports grants applications that support real community integration and target disadvantage are supported within the sports grant allocation. I welcome that and think it should be the focus going forward. I would point out that in sports communities in disadvantaged areas there will always be families with ambition for their children who want to push their kids on and will bring them to whatever is going on. Unfortunately, the families who we want to get at are often not the families who will bring their children to sports. In fact, most of the time, they have no interest in that type of activity. We need to look at how we are supporting clubs and maybe we could look at initiatives to try to engage with schools and even crèches to try to identify where disadvantage is coming from and how it can be tackled.

The other area I would like to address is trauma and addiction. I highlight Aiséirí in Waterford, which is a centre for young adults, including young men and those coming through the penal system. I have met a number of people going through the system. I applaud the fantastic work Gerry Carroll and others are doing in Aiséirí in Waterford. I have seen first-hand people who have really come a cropper in the justice system. They have gone into the centre and, through significant psychological work, have come to the core understanding of changing attitudes. It has helped them to try to understand that it is basically not their fault when they come from disadvantage or have fallen into addiction through trauma. I saw two individuals there. One young guy is hoping to do aerospace engineering, having been up before the courts a number of times. Another chap is hopefully going on to become a chef. It shows the value of an integrated, co-ordinated approach, but one needs to have the experts there and time and money are needed. We have to find a way to deliver opportunity to our most disadvantaged.

I welcome, as I think everybody in the House would, the anti-grooming legislation on inducement and coercion into crime. We have to acknowledge that a large part of our problem in the criminal justice system is coming through the use of drugs, the drugs trade and how it is targeting youth. Unfortunately, that is a difficult question because many in society are partaking in drugs and feel they are not part of the problem, but of course once people are taking part in any business and supporting it, they are part of the problem. We have seen this all over the world but, again, it is really about education. We need to have a viable pathway for youth to properly participate. That should be the fundamental focus of the strategy, not just for those who have come across the youth justice system but for those who are probably heading that way. If one speaks to teachers and gardaí on the beat, they will talk about families whose kids have not yet come into contact with justice but will do so in a couple of years. They can see it starts off with just antisocial behaviour and then, for many children, it mushrooms.

I welcome the strategy the Minister of State is proposing. It requires support through community leaders and mentors to try to lead it and to educate us too. We need to look at the drug addiction supports and the supports for agencies such as Aiséirí which are trying to intervene for people.

I recently visited a crèche in Waterford where there are two children where one parent is only there casually and the other parent is there. They are both heavy drug users. That crèche organises to have those children picked up in the morning. They are preschool children. They are brought to the crèche to be with the other children for the day and then they are dropped home. The hardest thing for people at the crèche at times is to drop those kids home, knowing what they are dropping them into. I do not have an answer to that but I would say these are the problems that the strategy needs to try to address. We need a system with a collaborative approach, which I think the Minister of State is approaching. Most importantly, I think we need early, targeted interventions. We need to be speaking to those not just inside the justice system but those around it, who liaise with it and can probably point to the people most in need of remediating care.

Deputy Thomas Gould

We saw a report from the Health Research Board, HRB, this week on presentations to addiction treatment centres that shows, for the first time in the history of the State, that cocaine addiction has overtaken opioids as the drug for which treatment is most frequently sought. We know that, unlike opioids, there is no medical substitute for cocaine. This makes treatment more complex. The results of this research are worrying. The Government must take them as a wake-up call to begin to fund addiction services properly because it is failing communities, ordinary people and, especially, young people through the lack of supports.

We need to stop young people from being drawn into drugs. We need to stop criminals from targeting young people. The reality is that, for many young people, drugs can be recreational and leave them with no problems but this is not the issue for all young people. Where there are issues like mental health, poverty, trauma or problems in the home, drugs can be an escape and addiction can follow. We need to begin by staging interventions on this. The easiest way to tackle addiction is prevention. We need to see the youth justice strategy have an approach that includes prevention and working with young people. We need to see a real programme in the schools with access to qualified drug counsellors who can educate children, talk them through the problems and, hopefully, keep them away from addiction.

Another key way I believe we can do this is through sport. For young people, cost can be a barrier. Sinn Féin proposed a sports leisure card system that would see every child given access to €130 to be used in sport or leisure activities. In Iceland, this approach reduced underage drinking and smoking.

Alongside prevention, we need intervention. Young offending often happens in areas where high levels of poverty or deprivation are rife. The reality is that, much like addiction, poverty can often be the root cause of young offending. We need to seriously tackle poverty and ensure there are pathways out of poverty for every young person in the State. Too often, by the time young people reach the age of criminal responsibility, it is too late. They are already engaged in serious criminality. Tusla must intervene in cases and recognise, as is done in Scotland, that young offending is a symptom of need and neglect and damages children and their futures. We must be serious in our actions and see full implementation of the youth justice strategy along with other important strategies. We must reach out to allow for credible and meaningful interventions. When we do this, young people who are engaged in criminality are given an opportunity to develop meaningful lives and become important members of communities.

Early childhood experience has a profound effect on a young person's life. Sports and education are the key in trying to prevent young people from getting involved in criminality or addiction. We ask that the resources be put in place to support this. I have seen cases in my constituency of young people of nine, ten or 11 years of age being involved in criminality. I have met the Garda and contacted Tusla. These are vulnerable children and victims because of the poverty and deprivation they have grown up with. We need interventions to give these children hope. I also see in other communities where young people stay in sport and education that there is a dramatic reduction in the number of people who get involved in criminality or addiction. I have been involved for 37 years in coaching teams, from street leagues to adults. I have seen kids who unfortunately did not make it and I have seen young people who were able to change their lives because of the friendships, coaching and mentoring they got from the GAA, of which I am a member, and from soccer and other sports.

We need to give young people hope. We need to keep them away from criminals who will use them and, hopefully, out of addiction.

Deputy Mick Barry

I note the fact that it has taken two and a half years for the investigation into the killing of George Nkencho to get to the point where a file has been sent to the Director of Public Prosecutions, DPP. I am pleased that a file has been sent to the DPP. Mr. Nkencho's family feel a sense of relief about the fact that has happened. However, I will register the point that two and a half years was far too long a wait for a family who had to deal with the grief and trauma of the killing of their son and brother. I express the hope that the DPP can now process the case with a degree of urgency.

Due to where this case is at, I will only deal with points that arise from it in a very general sense. George Nkencho's sister, Gloria, made a statement the other day in the aftermath of the decision. She said the following, which I will read into the record of the House:

We are also compelled to express our profound disappointment in the political response, or rather the lack thereof. It is disheartening to witness the major political parties in the state, who should have been beacons of support and solidarity, fail to stand beside our family in our relentless quest for justice.

[...]

We also raise valid concerns about the potential role of racial bias in shaping the decision of politicians to withhold public support.

That is a very sharp statement from someone who, together with her family, is meant to be represented by three Ministers in her constituency. She concludes on that by stating, "Would the response have been different if the victim had been a white middle-class young man from the leafy suburbs of South Co Dublin?"

I will also read into the record some comments that Gloria Nkencho made regarding the media coverage of the case in the hours and days immediately following the killing of her brother. They are also very relevant points. She said:

As we reflect upon the conclusion of the investigation into George's tragic death, it is imperative to acknowledge the insidious influence of racial bias that tainted the initial media coverage of George’s case. We cannot ignore the manner in which journalists, including those from the national broadcaster RTE, portrayed our family’s arduous struggle for justice. The impact of inaccurate reporting fuelled by leaks from An Garda Síochána, continues [not just in the immediate aftermath, although that was a particular case in point] to shape the prevailing narrative.

Those are very important words from Gloria Nkencho. I would like to make other points but I will save the bulk of them for another day for reasons the Leas-Cheann Comhairle will understand.

There is a clear need for far more training and resources to equip all front-line workers, and law enforcement agencies, with all the skills needed to deal with individuals undergoing a mental health crisis. We need urgent changes that will help towards dealing efficiently and compassionately with vulnerable individuals at vulnerable moments. I will return to these issues at a later time.

Deputy Gino Kenny

We are having a very good debate on young people and the strategy around justice and so forth. Young people are sometimes maligned. They can be marginalised by society so it is important we give confidence and credit to their age group. The most important thing, if young people engage in activity they should not engage in, is to divert them away from the criminal justice system. The Garda diversion projects are very good. I have first-hand experience of such a project. It is a very good project that takes people away from things they should not be doing. We do not want young people getting into a career of criminality. There are also very good initiatives, such as late-night football leagues. They are a good tool for engaging young people in working-class communities.

I will touch on a number of matters. We cannot talk about youth work without talking about the cuts that happened 15 years ago due to austerity. Funding of youth work throughout the State has been catching up and is still catching up. If there is no funding for engaging with young people, we will then have voids and resource issues.

My substantial contribution will be on the document, Report on the Consultations with Young People for the Citizens Assembly on Drug Use. It outlines a number of very important issues that young people are thinking about and want to engage with. It raises a number of very important issues regarding how young people are affected by drug use or the harms caused by drugs and so forth. As I said, my first-hand experience is that when young people engage with criminal gangs, they go down a very dark cul-de-sac. Some very unscrupulous people will use young people for drug dealing and so forth. The main points outlined in the document are around treatment and support. A key issue is that of nonjudgmental harm reduction, in addition to legal reform, educational awareness and aspects of what drugs do to individual young people and their communities and families. This document is very important and way ahead of Government policy on how we deal with people in communities that have been blighted by drug use. The citizens' assembly document is very important in the whole context of drug use in this country. Young people are deeply affected, regardless of whether they take drugs, by the peer group through which drugs are in their community. I hope people get a chance to read this document, even if it is only the first six or seven pages. It gives an insight into how young people are thinking and what their outlook on this issue is, when they are sometimes forgotten about.

The main thing is we have to look after our young people. We have to big them up. We do not need to malign them. There are sometimes all sorts of bad vibes on social media that can really play on people's minds, especially young people's minds, such as their association with anti-social behaviour. I hate that label. I hate it with a passion that young people are associated with anti-social behaviour just because they hang around corners. We all hung around corners. We all did that, but there is then a label that young people are engaged in anti-social behaviour. If young people hear that, what does it do to somebody's thinking? We have to be very careful about terminology and how we treat and listen to young people. It is very important that we listen to young people because, again, their voices are sometimes not heard. The contribution and say of the Citizens' Assembly on Drug Use outlined in this document are very important in respect of the recommendation we will get at the end of the year.

Deputy Cathal Crowe

The youth justice strategy is quite a positive document that has the young people of Ireland front and centre.

I taught in quite a sheltered community where my local school was located. Many teachers I trained with in college told me of their immense despair when, several years after teaching a lovely innocent child in a classroom, they found out that a couple of years later the same youngster had got caught up with gangs or criminality. Some of them paid the ultimate price with their lives. It is important Government has a strategy to pick up young people and keep them on the right track. This needs to be backed up with Government investment in those pick-up supports.

Wearing my teacher’s hat, one of the first alarm bells that can often ring in terms of how a child is being parented, minded and reared relates to issues around parental responsibility and how a child is being looked after. The Tusla thresholds are questionable and need to be reviewed by Government. There are many elements to this. Deputy Gino Kenny was correct to mention the Citizens' Assembly on Drugs Use. It would be a blind approach to have youth strategies and have Fagin’s law before the Dáil two weeks ago, but not to have feed-in from the citizens' assembly. It is important that we have that.

There is a need for a revamp of drug education and awareness in schools. We have had a national debate going on for two years about relationship and sexuality education and I am glad that is being overhauled and modernised but there are drugs on the market and being pedalled on the streets that many of us in this House have not an iota about. Government strategy is way behind.

On the day that is in it, it is important something be said about the suggestion the Special Criminal Court should be disbanded. Absolutely not. It is a robust institution that has taken on the worst of criminal gangs. I remember 28 October 2005 very well. I was not a Teachta Dála at the time but a councillor and was canvassing in the village of Parteen with Deputy O’Dea. We came on a scene where somebody had been killed in gangland activity. It was a haunting image. I am glad the courts system was able to take on that gang and many others. We need to protect it.

Deputy James Lawless

I too welcome the youth justice strategy and the progress made by the Minister of State, Deputy James Browne, in advancing these matters and many of the aspects addressed under his stewardship.

Looking beyond the strategy to other issues in the sphere of youth justice, the justice committee, which I chair, published a comprehensive report recently on the decriminalisation of certain substances - drugs - with a greater focus on cannabis but with a variety of substances in mind. It was signed off on all-party basis and many of its recommendations are with the citizens' assembly for discussion. I mention this because the figures represented to us during deliberations in the committee showed that often when somebody comes into contact with the criminal justice system, particularly a minor or youth, it is because they have been accused of possession of drugs, often a small quantity. The question we posed and answered in the report was whether it was appropriate for a young or older person to have a criminal sanction and record because they were found to have a small quantity of cannabis or some other soft drug in their possession. I look forward to the deliberations of the citizens' assembly but we could spare many young people that stigma and avoid much court time and Garda resources being devoted to the pursuit of such activities were we to adopt a different approach. I know the jury is out on that but I look forward to the citizens' assembly making its recommendations and hope they will be somewhat, at least, in line with what we found on the justice committee.

I raised an issue with the Minister in a recent parliamentary question session that relates to a postcode lottery. There is an anomaly or lacuna in the Children Act in the way prosecutions operate for persons under 18. If somebody commits an offence while under 18, they are as a child in the eyes of the law. That is managed in conformance with the Children Act and brought about through investigation and prosecution. When they come before a court, certain sanctions are considered appropriate for children and others for those who are over 18 and considered to be adults, which is effectively the full gamut of the criminal law. The deciding factor is not their age when they committed the offence or when the charges were served, as one might expect, but their age when they come before the court for sentencing. In a district which is expedient and processes charges and books of evidence quickly, somebody could be brought before a court within a matter of months and charged while still a certain age. On many occasions, unfortunately, an individual of 15 or 16 at the time of committing an offence might face delays, which could be for good reason. Not all delays are negative. It could be because a probation report was ordered, because there were further inquiries or because a psychological assessment or victim impact statement was awaited. There are many reasons a child or its legal team may wish to engage further in different services. The parent may have a particular view. It may take some time before that case gets to court. If the child turns 18 in the meantime, they are tried and sentenced as an adult with the full section which that brings into play, which seems inappropriate and completely unfair. The same offence in similar circumstances could be committed by two children in the same day in different districts. One is tried as a child, convicted, and sentenced as a child, with all the protections they then enjoy, rightly; another is sentenced as an adult, purely because of the date on which the case was heard. I said the Minister before that it is a lacuna and something that should be looked at.

Another situation I have seen is where judges, with the best intentions, use the sentencing regime to apply a suspended sentence, which is used to great effect in many cases, as a form of deterrence to say the person is getting another chance, a sentence is being imposed and if the person reoffends, it is hanging over him or her for a certain amount of time. If the person behaves themselves in the meantime, it elapses and he or she moves on. In certain situations where a sentence was suspended for a child defendant, the child unfortunately reoffended and when the case came back before the court and the judge attempted to trigger the suspended sentence, it was not possible under the Children's Act. There is a lacuna there. It should not be possible to impose a suspended sentence if it is incapable of being triggered. I know the victim of such an instance who nearly lost her life in a road traffic accident where there was a criminal prosecution afterwards and it transpired there was a previous offence but it could not be re-entered because of the lacuna on suspended sentences.

I welcome the report and the significant progress on this. The justice committee considered the Criminal Justice (Engagement of Children in Criminal Activity) Bill 2023, which has been nicknamed Fagin’s law after the Dickens character with his gang of pickpockets roaming the streets of London. It concerns the agency of the third party benefitting from the crime and largely innocent children, or misled at any rate, being sent into action. It will be possible when the Bill becomes law to criminalise the commissioner of the offence, the one who profits from and organises it, as opposed to the child who is effectively an innocent agent.

On a solemn and serious note, not every offence is suitable for youth diversion and not every child is innocent. We had in the law for a long time the principle of doli incapax, which was a presumption that children under a certain age were incapable of serious crime. In my constituency we very sadly had the Ana Kriégel case in Leixlip in the last couple of years, RIP, and in the UK a number of years ago the Jamie Bulger case. Other stories have made the headlines in recent years in other countries and, thankfully not many, but some in Ireland. We should not be so naive as to think it suitable for every case. Some of the most serious crimes are committed by those considered children in the eyes of the law but they do not act like children. That is something we need to be wise to. There must remain the potential for the most serious sentences for the most serious crimes, regardless of the age of those committing it.

I support the Minister of State in what he is trying to do with the youth diversion scheme and thank him for his work to date.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

In the interest of clarity, I wish to inform the House that the next slot is a Sinn Féin slot that has been used. The slot after that is that of the Regional Group, whose members have already spoken. The slot after that is a Government slot, and the two speakers are not here. Therefore, I am moving to Sinn Féin, namely to Deputy Andrews, and then to the Rural Independent Group. I will go back to the two speakers who are present from Sinn Féin and the Government.

Deputy Chris Andrews

I welcome the national youth justice strategy. There are changes that we in Sinn Féin would make. Detention should be considered for juveniles or young people convicted of serious crimes such as sex offences, murder and manslaughter. That said, early intervention is key. The strategy acknowledges many offenders will have multiple disadvantages. Socioeconomic status is one such disadvantage, and my constituency has many people who face socioeconomic disadvantage daily. It is important to acknowledge that we will not police our way out of the challenges that face communities in the inner city. We have a great local Garda force. Pearse Street and Kevin Street Garda stations are really helpful and very professional, and they are very patient in the face of much provocation. Resources really are lacking where Garda numbers are concerned. The superintendent in Pearse Street, Mr. Dermot McKenna, engages very closely with local residents and tries to ensure there is no glaring lack of resources.

Along with an increase in Garda resources, there needs to be greater employment opportunities for less affluent inner-city communities. Also needed are greater educational opportunities. Legislation is also needed to tackle socioeconomic issues. This process could have been started some months ago when Deputy Wynne and I introduced legislation to address and tackle socioeconomic disadvantage and outlaw discrimination. Unfortunately, the Government is dragging its heels. The Minister has said he hopes the legislation will be in place before the end of the life of this Government. I am not as convinced but I believe it is really important. To be fair to the Minister, he has acknowledged this. I hope he will back up his words of several months ago with deeds and ensure the legislation is enacted before the end of the lifetime of this Government.

At City Quay in the Pearse Street area, there is a youth club called Talk About Youth that does absolutely fantastic work for the young people but does not have an own-door facility. It has to rent space when it wants to work with the young people and it does not always rent it in the same building. It has to go here and there, or wherever it can find the space to rent, to do the work with the young people in the south inner city. The Government should act further on the findings in the Mulvey report and extend to the south inner city the resources that followed the report. The reality is that the north and south inner-city areas are one community, albeit divided by a river. Now, unfortunately, because of Government actions, the community has been divided on the basis of resources available to community and youth groups, and that is a huge issue. People would say there are issues affecting the north inner city but they affect the south inner city equally. The lack of resources, educational opportunities and job opportunities, combined with the neglect of flat complexes and public housing in the south inner city, adds to the disconnect between young people and their local community and society.

The flats are neglected and the conditions are shocking. I was in a flat complex not far from here today. In the stairwell, the smell of stagnant water, urine and Jeyes Fluid was absolutely sickening. There were bars and razor wire along the tops of the flats. It looked more like Mountjoy Prison but I would imagine that is being unfair to Mountjoy. I invite every Minister to come down to the flats to see the neglect residents have to put up with. We can have in place all the strategies and plans we want but nothing will change unless they are backed up with resources.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am moving on to the Rural Independent Group. Could we turn off the phones, please? It is unacceptable to have them going off repeatedly. I am trying not to look at anyone here but I ask that phones be put on silent.

Deputy Michael Collins

The youth justice strategy for the period 2021 to 2027, produced by the group chaired by the Minister of State, Deputy James Browne, is presented as a comprehensive plan to address youth crime and provide support for vulnerable young individuals; however, a critical examination of it raises concerns about its effectiveness and potential implications. We can produce all the documents we want on young people but we must look after the young people on the ground. They are trying their best, as I saw recently at the West Cork Garda Youth Awards in West Cork Hotel. I saw at first hand the great young people. They need to be commended for their efforts and what they are doing in their community. If we can encourage them, we will not have to produce half the paperwork in this country. I commend everyone. I have tried to involve myself in the Garda Youth Awards through Community Alert for many years, as have my colleagues. I congratulate Ms Caitlin O'Sullivan from Goleen, among others, who won awards for their work. Only for the Garda Youth Awards, the young people would go unnoticed. The same goes for those in communities who arrange activities for young people. In this regard, I am thinking of Foróige. The youth get involved also. Kinsale Youth Support Services, known better as KYSS, does so much for young people and gets very little commendation at any forum. I would like to make sure such groups do not go unnoticed.

Individuals such as Brendan Piper of Pipers Funfair, Kinsale, have catered for youth from all over Kinsale and Cork county for decades. I ask the Minister of State or his Department to intervene in any way possible to get the funfair up and running again for young people. Pipers Funfair was asked to move from where it was in Kinsale and did so peacefully having made a request to be allowed to go back. Now it is not allowed back by the council one way or another. There have been several protests in Kinsale and there are more to come in the next few weeks. It was sad to hear a councillor on the radio the other day blaming everyone but councillors, saying the only way they would do something for Pipers Funfair would be if they got an apology. That is an astonishing way for any council to act. It really is the sting from a dying bee. We need to be working with our youth. The likes of Pipers Funfair were brilliant for the young people of Kinsale for decades. I would like the Minister of State to intervene and not have councillors seeking apologies, only people willing to work and put forward solutions to keep young people's minds active. There are jobs at risk and enjoyment is at risk. This should be addressed regardless of anybody's ego.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

This strategy's reliance on punitive measures raises concerns about potential infringements of the rights of young individuals. Excessive emphasis on punishment may lead to the over-criminalisation of young people, disproportionately affecting marginalised and disadvantaged communities, but I want to speak about County Kerry and what we do for young people there. I commend services such as the Kerry Diocesan Youth Service, which operates out of Killarney, Tralee and other locations. It takes care of young people and organises youth events.

I thank all the people in the GAA who are engaging with and involving young people in football and hurling. I thank and compliment those behind the schools programme, through which youths play basketball and run and participate in sports of all codes. There are boxing clubs for young people. I encourage all this activity because we must encourage young people to be busy, whether it is through part-time work, sport or helping their parents and grandparents. We were always told that the worst thing in the world for any person, young or old, is to be idle.

It leads to the devil's work, and I really believe that.

I would love to see the people and our youngsters being kept busy and active, and I thank and compliment - all around the Ring of Kerry, mid-Kerry, east, north and south Kerry - all the people who devote their lives to working with young people, and I mean the people who do the voluntary work with them. They are doing a great service, and they are instilling different interests in our young people. I know that the young people in Kerry who I meet are great young people, but what they need is a bit of direction in life.

One thing I would say then which is very important is about SUSI grants. I hate to see young people being punished for working by their money being taken into account. There were changes made, but it is not enough. We have a situation where instead of encouraging young people to work part-time, they are nearly afraid at this stage, in case it will hurt and infringe their parents when they are applying for SUSI grants. Encourage young people and give them latitude, and that is the right way to go about it.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

I am glad to get the opportunity to talk on this very important issue. The youth are our future and as has been said, it is very important to keep them active and working. We appreciate all of the voluntary groups that help youth, whether it is the local youth groups in Kenmare, Kilgarvan, Glenflesk or wherever. All of those people do great work with the youth, and they know them by name. In the GAA clubs, the underage teams are very active both in hurling and football in Kerry, all over the county. There are clubs that never played hurling now training their young fellows and girls to play hurling as well.

The strategy falls short in addressing the socioeconomic factors that contribute to youth crime. It does not propose sufficient measures to address inequality, poverty and the lack of educational opportunities, which are often root causes of criminal behaviour among young people. Without addressing these systematic issues, any efforts to reduce youth crime are likely to yield limited results. We must keep our youth busy, and keep them happy and active in sports. The Kerry Diocesan Youth Service, KDYS, is a magnificent organisation. It does so much work all around the county, in Castleisland, Killorglin and Killarney. It does massive work with young people.

The drugs issue is something that is prevalent even in every small parish now, and we must ensure that we help the Garda to combat this in whatever way we can. When it gets hold of young people, it does untold damage. We have to ensure that young fellows and girls have enough to do. It has been highlighted to me that so many discos and similar places are closed now, and we only have them in the bigger towns, rather than the smaller towns.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I am glad to be able to speak on this today. I believe in the phrase mol an óige agus tiocfaidh sí, and I think that we are not doing that. I want to salute all of the organisations, including the youth clubs in Tipperary. My daughter, Councillor Máirín McGrath, is involved in setting up the club in Newcastle again, and Ballybreen. Then there is the Waterford and South Tipperary Community Youth Service, which comes into Tipperary as well. I salute them for the work they do, and the parents. We all have a role here.

There are too many issues closing down too many activities. Insurance is crippling. I have just met people from Celtic Bike & Quad Racing. Our group met them a few minutes ago. They cannot get insurance. They have young people who are interested in their sport. It is the same way with showjumping, horse racing, road racing and every kind of activity. The insurance is crippling these people and stopping them from going. We must do something about that, and not empty talk.

The child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS, are non-existent in community health organisation, CHO, area 5 in Tipperary. There are vacancies, vacancies, vacancies. I have raised it here countless times. The Government tells us it is trying to recruit. That is no good. People who want help are falling through the cracks. Parents are desperately seeking help for their children who are suffering, and have no place to go in public or even private. It is just not good enough that those people are left to wallow there like that and not get the intervention that they need.

Then there is the whole area of the lack of gardaí. We have some great community gardaí in Clonmel, but they are not there any more. They are pulled off into other services, and I think we have set up too many specialist services within An Garda Síochána and have diminished the number of gardaí on the ground to deal with the people. You cannot beat it. Garda John Walsh, who is the community garda in our area, in Newcastle, Ardfinnan and Ballybacon-Grange, comes into the youth club, brings off the young people for a spin in the squad car. He shows them how to be friendly with gardaí and not to be afraid of them and that it is not the case of it being them and us.

We have young people in my parish and many other parishes who desperately need intervention. One young person has done a lot of damage and his mother has been on to me. She cannot get the therapies he needs to stop him from doing that and to do good rather than do harm. It is frightening. These are very young people. Then we have the young people who are acting as mules and carrying drugs around in the town of Clonmel and other areas. It is shocking. We need CAMHS. We need early intervention therapies to support these families.

Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire

I welcome the opportunity to speak on the youth justice strategy. It is a vitally important area of work. Previous speakers have spoken of the role the community and voluntary sector plays in keeping young people active and busy, whether it is through sport, drama, music and different things like that. That is vitally important. We are very fortunate in this country to have a such a strong voluntary spirit and so many people who are willing to give of their time to assist with that. I want to pay tribute to that, and that has a very important role.

A lot of what needs to be done in this area is a lot more specialised and specific than that. It relates to focusing on those young people who are most at risk. I have to say that I can be critical of An Garda Síochána at times but particularly in my own area in Cork city, there was always a tremendous focus on community gardaí. In my own neighbourhood, Togher, we had a succession of really excellent community gardaí, including Paul Hyde, Michael Collins and various others now following in their footsteps. They set a really high standard. What they did, and I could see it myself at first hand to be honest, was build a trusting relationship with young people that some other members of the Garda may not have been able to develop. There was a sense that, "Whatever about the gardaí, Michael Collins is sound anyway". That relationship and building of trust has a really beneficial impact.

In the context of the case referred to the Director of Public Prosecutions, DPP, yesterday - I will not go into the specifics of any individual case - I read an interesting article in The Irish Times around the time of that particular incident in west Dublin. It was a long and interesting article written by Conor Gallagher of The Irish Times that spoke at length about how the relationship between some of the young people in that part of west Dublin and those from new Irish communities had been built up and was then allowed to drift. It was allowed to drift because of the lack of investment in community gardaí. A lot of good work that had been built up had subsequently been lost. That is noteworthy. In other places, maybe, some of that work has not been lost, because we have continued to invest in community gardaí and community policing.

The youth diversion projects are an essential part of that work and again I have seen that they do absolutely crucial work. There are young people I know - they are a bit older now - who would not be in the position they are in now, except that they had that chance through the youth diversion project and changed the course of where they were going. That is crucially important.

I want to make two specific points here. I have ended up with slightly more time than I thought I had. First, the point was made to me that the youth diversion project has a kind of cut-off at the age of 18. People who are working with those young people say that it would be potentially highly beneficial to be able to continue to work with those people until they are 22 or 24, and transitioning into the workplace. I am certainly not, by any manner of means, dismissing the points made by Deputy Lawless regarding doli incapax.

Of course adults should be subject to the full rigours of the law, but that is different from ensuring that the people who are in the project can continue to get supported as they progress towards employment, third level, apprenticeships or whatever they might go on to do, and to make sure they can make that transition. The cut-off at 18 is a problem.

The final point I want to make - the Minister of State might take note of it – relates to the town of Carrigaline in Cork, which is in my constituency. In the last census it had about 16,000 people. Almost one in three, or 5,000, of the town's population were under 18. There is a youth diversion project in that area – the Heron project, which is very good but it does not have a premises of its own. An awful lot of the cohort of 5,000 are younger, including infants and small children. Carrigaline is a fantastic town with great community spirit but no matter how good a town is, when one has that many young people it will present challenges. We must ensure the youth diversion project is properly funded and supported. That means a premises of its own to support the work Michael Collins, Austin and others are doing in that area to make sure there is a real focus to the work with the young people in that town. I urge the Minister of State to please consider that project if the application comes to his desk.

Deputy Jim O'Callaghan

First, I commend the Minister of State, Deputy James Browne, on developing the youth justice strategy. I also commend him on chairing the steering group that is extremely important in putting forward proposals as to how we deal with this hugely important issue of responding to youth justice issues. We spend a lot of time in this House talking about issues in respect of which the outcome may not be that great, even if we get it right, but when we look at the issue of youth justice, if a person gets caught up in the criminal justice system we can see there is a huge benefit not just to the individuals involved but to society if we get it right.

What do we mean when we talk about getting it right? What it means is that we try to divert young people from the pathway of criminality that many of them find themselves on at a very early age. If we look at the statistics in respect of criminal wrongdoing in this country, or more specifically, individuals who are convicted by our courts of criminal acts of violence or criminal acts of theft and property-related offences, a high proportion of those convicted are men under the age of 35 years. It is astonishing when we look at it, but once men get over the age of 35 or 40 their incidence of criminal wrongdoing drops considerably. It must be also pointed out that it is, regrettably, predominantly men who are involved in criminal activity involving acts of violence and acts of crimes against property. One thing we notice when we speak to prisoners or men who have had convictions is that, regrettably, if we go back and trace their pathway into prison, it starts at a very young age. Very many of them were boys who got into trouble at the age of 14 or 15 years, and by the time they were 18 they had already come to the attention of the Garda and indeed the courts. Some of them have been already detained in juvenile centres. If somebody under the age of 18 years gets on the pathway of criminality, it is extremely difficult to get that person off that while in their 20s. If a 17- or 18-year old is involved in criminality, I regret to say there is a strong likelihood that as a young man in his 20s that same person will continue on the pathway of criminality.

I was in Mountjoy Prison recently and I spoke to persons who had been convicted of extremely serious offences. I had illuminating conversations with many of them. One man spoke to me about how in his earlier life, from the age of 15 or 16 onwards, he believed that violence was a way for him to get his way. He said that in his youth - in his teens and in his 20s - violence had been very effective in terms of him getting his way. He said the reason he believed that is that - as we know, children are sponges and they absorb what is told to them by people around them - he had been told by his own father that violence was a way of getting what he wanted. It was very interesting talking to him in Mountjoy because he had come to the realisation – I do not know what was the reason for him coming to the realisation - that he had been going down a completely wrong path for many years and that violence was not a way for him to get his way, and that it was a wholly unacceptable way for him to try to exert his influence. What the conversation with that man taught me, which is self-evident, is that from a very early age children are influenced by the people around them. That is why I welcome the fact that the Minister of State, Deputy Browne, in the youth justice strategy has identified all the important factors that are necessary to divert children and, if we are honest about it, it is mainly boys and young men, from the pathway that leads them to the criminal justice system. One of the points that has been emphasised is the need for early intervention and preventative work. That is why I think we are doing a disservice to young boys if we find them involved in criminal activity, whether it be fighting in a public place, theft or assault causing harm, if we do not make them aware of the seriousness of what they have done. If a young man believes he can just engage in an act of violence, theft or criminality and there are no consequences, he will find it very difficult to recognise that it is a pathway from which he needs to deviate.

Another important element of the youth justice strategy is the whole area of family support. We all know that having reliable and responsible adults around children growing up is hugely influential and beneficial. I know that is not the case for everyone and that some families have huge struggles and challenges, but the State must support those families who find it difficult to provide the support the majority of people in the country are lucky to have when they are children. We must identify at a very early stage the families and mothers on their own who need the support of the State to bring up a child or children. We must spend money and resources and ensure those services and supports are available. I spoke to a woman last week at the Bloomsday event in the St. Andrew's Resource Centre, who is in the business of trying to provide childcare support in homes and disadvantaged areas. It is hugely consequential and beneficial. We must recognise that unless we as a society provide support to those families that need support, we are, in effect, leaving them on their own and the likelihood is that without that support the children may get into trouble later on.

Another important aspect of the strategy is to divert people from crime. Again, that is about bringing to the attention of young people the consequences of their crimes. One of the reasons we see people coming out of the court covering their faces is that to large extent they are embarrassed about what they have done. They do not want it publicised that they have been involved in a serious criminal act of violence. That indicates that inherent in every person is a belief and an understanding that engaging in violence against another person is wrong and that is something we need to ensure young people are aware of.

I could go on much longer but I see my time is up. I again commend the Minister of State, Deputy Browne, on the work he has done. It is a strategy we all need to keep working on and that the State needs to support.

Deputy Alan Dillon

I am delighted to contribute to today's discussion on the progress and the effectiveness of our youth justice strategy, specifically focusing on the implementation and impact of the youth diversion projects that form an integral part of our comprehensive youth justice strategy. Under this strategy, the youth diversion projects have experienced a new and expanded mandate throughout the country, reaffirming the importance of diversion in our youth justice system.

As Deputy Jim O'Callaghan outlined, we must recognise the crucial role of the youth diversion projects and the significant impact they have on young people at risk of crime and antisocial behaviour.

These projects are instrumental in diverting our youth away from criminal behaviour and guiding them towards better life outcomes. Youth diversion projects serve as a key system for An Garda Síochána in the implementation of the statutory Garda youth diversion programme, as outlined in the Children Act 2001. It engages with young individuals who are under the supervision of juvenile liaison officers or have been referred by other agencies such as Tusla. Having the privilege of discussing several youth diversion projects throughout County Mayo, I must commend the work of Gerard Lovett, who co-ordinates Garda youth diversion projects in County Mayo under the Irish Youth Justice Service, IYJS, which represents Youth Work Ireland in the north Connacht region, as well as the transformative impact its work has on the young people and communities it serves. The feedback is of the positive influence these projects extend not only to the individuals who walk through its doors but far beyond that; it resonates throughout the wider community. The establishment of new projects not only signifies progress in the implementation of the youth justice strategy, it also emphasises the Government's commitment to providing youth diversion project services in all areas, which is important, as these projects play a vital role in providing family support, early intervention programmes for those between eight and 11 years of age and in reaching out to those who are harder to engage with, as well as supporting schools in retaining children with challenging behaviours and providing the necessary risk thresholds that must be achieved.

It is also of paramount importance that we offer young people at risk every opportunity to correct their paths and realise their full potential. We heard previously about the importance of sporting organisations such as the GAA, soccer, rugby and youth centres and organisations that provide an important outlet for young people, alongside those at most risk, where youth diversion projects not only divert young individuals away from a life of crime but also work tirelessly to nurture their talents, interests and personal development. By investing in their growth, we can empower them to become more positive contributors to society.

To demonstrate commitment to these crucial projects, I was delighted that the Minister of State, Deputy James Browne, allocated an additional €2.5 million in funding to the youth justice services in budget 2023. This increased budgetary allocation, totalling over €30 million, reflects the Government's dedication. I commend the Minister of State on investing in the impactful policy interventions in these policy documents, which cater to the needs of the most vulnerable children and young people in our society. The recent evaluation report recognised the exceptional work by youth diversion projects, social workers, Garda juvenile liaison officers and all other stakeholders involved in these initiatives. It also reaffirmed or aligned Irish youth justice policy with the objectives of youth diversion projects, while emphasising that diversion remains at the core of the youth justice system. The recent evaluation report, which I got a chance to review, highlighted several characteristics that contribute to the success of these projects. They included integration within the community, responsiveness to local needs, delivery by experienced and well-educated personnel and the provision of an accessible service that young people can actively engage in. The report also offered valuable recommendations for enhancing governance and access to administrative data, as well as areas around budgetary opportunities and interventions regarding substance misuse and crime. We must seize the opportunity to further develop the structures and processes that underpin youth diversion projects. I look forward to the Minister of State's advancement on recommendations presented in that report and building on the positive work already undertaken.

Deputy Paul McAuliffe

Like the other speakers, I welcome the progress we have made on this issue. I compliment the Minister of State, Deputy James Browne, on how he has approached it. I think he has listened to people in communities and Deputies across the House in different parties about what is needed on the ground. He has also delivered in real terms. There are an additional eight youth workers in Finglas south, my area, but many more are needed. The Minister of State came out and met that service and the children and young people benefiting from it. The previous speakers touched on the fact that this is a huge societal issue. Youth justice is one area before the Minister and one area that is a subject of the report, but the State's policy on drugs, child poverty, investing in Tusla, rolling out the north inner city model and an interagency approach to tackling disadvantage all feed into youth justice.

In many ways, the Garda is the most accountable version of that State response. It deals at the coalface of it, but, unfortunately, many other agencies are not accountable to Members of this House, local councillors or local communities in the way the Garda is. There are safety forums, joint policing committees and other structures in which gardaí can be quizzed and tackled about local policing plans. The same structures are not available for how Tusla or the HSE intervene in a community or about how there should more and greater supports for local drugs and alcohol task forces. In some ways, I have some sympathy that the justice ends of societies that are under real pressure are the most accountable but by no means are they the only solution. Area-based interventions are the key to tackling this issue. We discussed the Greentown report and the north inner city model. Cherry Orchard, Darndale and many other areas have started to have these interagency models; they all differ and have different approaches, some with resources some without, some with access to senior official groups and some without. While all of that is happening, Ballymun, which presented the Ballymun: A Brighter Future report to the then Taoiseach, Deputy Micheál Martin, in 2021, is still waiting for the senior officials group to be appointed. I believe that is imminent and I trust that it is. Approximately €2 million was allocated by the then Taoiseach to support the implementation of the report. However, €2 million will go nowhere towards solving the big societal issues in Ballymun. We need other agencies to come to the table, focusing the budgets they already have. Sometimes, it is not just about more money, it is about ensuring that those agencies about which I spoke - the HSE, Tusla and many others - focus their efforts and resource the staff available in those areas and that we approach the illegal drugs industry in a way that prevents criminals from benefiting off the backs of young people.

There are many measures and positive things we can look to for this Government in how it approaches this matter, such as the Taoiseach's task force on child poverty and the roll-out of the north inner city models, but the most-evidenced improvements have been in youth justice, which I welcome. Youth work is how I came to community work and how I came to represent my community. I was involved in the Finglas No Name Club, part of a national organisation to provide young people with alternatives to drugs and alcohol. It is where I and many other young people in my area were given opportunities to take leadership in our communities, get involved and learn new skills. Youth work is the core response to equip young people against many of the peer pressures they face in their communities. I think the Minister of State succeeded in securing an improvement in his budget last year, which I welcome, and I thank the then Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Michael McGrath, for supporting the Minister of State in that regard. I encourage him to go further this year; I think he has increased the number of youth diversion programmes from 106 to 110. There are areas that need them but existing services need more support in the same way he has invested in many areas like my own, Finglas south.

Other areas need investment too and those areas need more intensive support as well.

There must also be a marrying of youth justice and general youth work funding under the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. I say this because many youth projects are actually the same project, with two streams of funding coming in. The project itself seeks not to discriminate between children who might be actively put through a youth diversion programme but to bring the two streams of funding together to support one cohort of young people. I refer to where someone in a diversion programme is being mixed into a general youth programme and there is no visible distinction between the young people. This is also important. It is important that young people are not targeted or labelled. Equally, this type of initiative should not be seen as a club for bold kids because that sends a different message to other young people who are not engaged in criminal activity. There should be greater co-operation between and marrying of the two services. The service providers are sometimes different but greater interagency work between these service providers where this happens in an area will benefit the young people involved.

I urge the Minister of State to continue working in the area of youth justice and to seek funding for it. I also ask him to do all in his power to ensure that the Department and the Taoiseach follow through on their promise concerning these area-based initiatives and that Ballymun, which I know is top of the list, is approved. As I said, Finglas and many other areas are also waiting. I am sure there are Deputies around the House who would similarly urge the Minister of State to do this.

Places like Finglas and Ballymun have very strong infrastructure in place, although it is often under-resourced. I see Deputy Ward in the House and I know Clondalkin has much of the same infrastructure in place. However, in places like Santry and Drumcondra where there are young people who are vulnerable, there is often no youth work project or drugs task force. There are pockets of disadvantage in those areas that do not get the support they need. This is one of the other measures I would like to see the youth justice strategy address.

Deputy Violet-Anne Wynne

I thank the Independent Group for giving me the time to speak on this important issue. The youth justice strategy was roundly commended on its launch in 2021. The Irish Penal Reform Trust, IPRT, hailed it at the time as having "a strong and welcome focus on diversion, prevention and early intervention, underpinned by children’s rights and the use of detention as a last resort". In my constituency of Clare, we have a fantastic youth service and the team that runs the Garda youth diversion project provides an outstanding outlet for many young people from communities across County Clare. I take this opportunity to commend them sincerely on their work.

I also commend all the people in agencies in County Clare who work with young people in the areas of early intervention, diversion, prevention and, in particular, rehabilitation. The work I have witnessed first-hand in some of the most deprived communities in County Clare has proved to prevent young people from falling into the wrong circles. I would go so far as to say it has saved their lives. These people are incredible and the work they do is fantastic, but they are not being backed up by adequate resourcing. I will speak more about this aspect in a moment.

We need holistic and wraparound services. As many Deputies have said, we need to go back to basics and look at the lack of recreational spaces we have for young people, especially in the specific pinch points of those in their young to mid teens and those focused outside of physical activities. We were all 14 once and I am sure we all remember the cold winter evenings and having to walk around town when we were around that age because there was nowhere for young people to go. We would have given our left legs to sit in a youth café and chat with our mates instead of being stuck out in the cold. That was fine back in the day but, unfortunately, teenagers walking the streets now out of boredom are the easiest targets for organised crime to recruit new foot soldiers. It has become more common every day and, indeed, it gets more worrying every day.

I commend the work the Government has done with respect to robust legislation against the grooming of children and young people into criminality. To poison the mind of a child, as I am sure the Minister of State will agree, is unforgivable. I noted that Deputy Catherine Murphy mentioned a conversation with a young constituent some years ago where he said, "You have to get into trouble to do interesting things". I have had many similar conversations with my young constituents. We need more services for young people in our communities and we need to listen to them in planning those services. Every team DEIS school in this country should have a youth café in its area. Having a space for young people that is safe and supervised and open two or three nights a week would have a massive effect in respect of taking kids off the streets and out of harm's way. It is a measure I hope many colleagues in the House will support. I will also mention what young people are exposed to when they are walking the streets. It is not just about who they interact with or their vulnerabilities in respect of others, but what they are seeing. We know the numbers of homeless people and people sleeping rough have increased and young people are being exposed to the hardships and difficulties these individuals are facing.

I also wish to talk about the new Garda operational model and how it is failing young people and failing in preventing crime in our communities. In particular, it is a complete disgrace that the Kilrush division in my constituency of Clare has lost its superintendent. It is a scathing indictment of an apathetic policy which flies in the face of the socioeconomic needs of communities in rural Ireland. It is disgraceful that this has happened in an area like the Kilrush division, which has the only two unemployment black spots in my constituency, a subject I have already raised many times in this House. While I welcome the work done on the grooming legislation, this means little to communities in County Clare that have not seen one additional garda. Even worse is the fact that the county lost nine gardaí and a superintendent in the last three years.

In speaking about the Garda and this whole area, I will also say that no young person under 18, or perhaps even 20, should end up in a cell as a result of a non-violent, first-time offence. More contemporary research exists than would fill this House to support the idea that prevention is better than cure but if prevention is not possible, then conviction should be avoidable in such an instance. We know that once people have a conviction, it limits and restricts their opportunities for years to come, including even the organisations they will be able to engage with in a voluntary capacity. It really restricts opportunities for people to grow, gain confidence and engage in society in a meaningful way.

There are now roughly four prisoners to a cell here. Our prisons are severely overcrowded, which we all know. We must see all agencies working with young people. An Garda Síochána and relevant voluntary groups must form task forces in every county in the State to keep young people out of prisons and the school of criminality. We must examine restorative justice. I was sorry to hear there were fewer restorative justice referrals in 2022 than in 2019. I am hopeful this approach will be developed more in future. We can all say there are far worse things in the world than a 17-year-old getting caught smoking a joint.

Generational poverty and breaking the cycle are issues many of my colleagues have already spoken about. Deputy Chris Andrews and I had a Bill before the House a few months ago concerned with socioeconomic rights and discrimination based on socioeconomic background. In my research for that Bill, I spoke to representatives of many fantastic organisations that are members of the Add the 10th Alliance. We covered a wide array of topics in those conversations. They informed me of the significance of their Add the 10th campaign and how it would positively impact every sector and perhaps Departments if it was enacted.

The Government put a stay on our Bill of nine months, which was a huge disappointment. Had that Bill progressed then, we would now be closer to the incredibly significant step of ensuring that socioeconomic status and accent were added as a tenth ground for discrimination. This would have sent a strong message that discrimination based on those grounds would not be tolerated. It would also have created the space for the necessary national conversation that is needed on this matter and the need to remove the stigma associated with living in a particular area or having a particular accent.

This will be positive for all our youth, as a government that tolerates discrimination on those grounds is holding society back from progressing with equality and inclusivity at its core.

We know communities that have a lower socioeconomic status are profiled and the youth in those communities are far more likely to be policed than those from more affluent areas. This fact is not lost on our youth and adds to societal division and negative attitudes.

Nelson Mandela famously said that education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world. We are seeing kids drop out of school every year because they have no guidance on what to do with their futures. Moreover, 91% of guidance counsellors report not having enough time to meet all of the students under their remit and 75% report referral issues. For students who are lucky enough to be able to meet their guidance counsellor, mental healthcare has completely overtaken career decision-making as the top reason young people want to meet a guidance counsellor. It is very concerning. The kids are not all right and services are failing them. I acknowledge the recruitment and retention crisis but there is no excuse for children and young people falling through the cracks, just as 140 children who engaged with CAMHS midwest did last year.

In conclusion, I broadly support the strategy but there are missed opportunities. I hope we can all work across the House so that no young person is left behind or allowed to fall through the cracks again. I will finish as I started, by commending each and every person in County Clare and across the State who gives their time to our young people in the voluntary sector through sport, the GAA, CoderDojo, youth clubs and Foróige, to name a few, as well as those who work incredibly hard with young people to give the right path and steer them towards the best future possible. Mol an óige agus tiocfaidh sí.

Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

I have spoken about this before. Diverting our young people away from getting involved in criminal activity is a key priority for me. I am a fan of prevention and looking at ways of offering better alternatives to young people before they end up in the system. I have worked with a lot of Carlow services and can only say that they do a marvellous job. They work hard. Unfortunately, there are crime rates among our young people and we can change that. We can work and invest in communities, outreach, drug programmes and family resource centres to give young people a chance.

I spoke to the Minister of State about a community hub on the Tullow Road, which needs a building. There will be two full-time staff who will work with the people in the community. There is a fabulous centre for Carlow youth services but it now needs to expand to the Tullow Road, a site owned by Carlow County Council. I have gone to the Department. Due to the fact it is a hub, there seems to be a grey area in terms of exactly where the funding is coming from. My understanding is Carlow County Council has more than €1 million for the project but it is now seeking over €1 million from the Department. The cost of the build for this hub will be a little over €2 million. For 35 years, the area has had a lot of high-density housing developments. Unfortunately, little or no social, cultural, green or economic infrastructure has been built to accommodate the increased population. It is a huge issue. We build many houses but there is nothing for young people. That has become a huge concern for me.

The national planning framework, NPF, and the regional spatial and economic strategy, RSES, place a strong emphasis on achieving and maintaining sustainable and inclusive communities to contribute to a high quality of life. That is important. It is about quality of life and everybody working together. We have to get to children before they offend. We need to invest in youth and community work. We also have to work with communities.

As other speakers have said, the most important people in our communities are volunteers, the people who give of their time for sports - if I mention one sport I might leave out another - or youth services or whatever. We have such good people. I can speak on behalf of the people of County Carlow. There are excellent people who give up their time to bring children to matches, volunteer at matches or organise events. I have attended many field days in the past few weeks. I am delighted to attend. All of the children are participating in them and enjoying it. They might play a match or go on bouncy castles. That is what it is all about. It is all about prevention. I want to welcome that. It is about supporting and engaging children and keeping them away from crime.

I welcome the youth justice strategy. We have to tackle crime at all levels and in all areas of our society. We need to go into communities where there are high rates of criminality and examine the range of issues that affect communities, including the needs of our young people, the opportunities available to them and the root causes that lead to criminal activity taking hold.

A key focus of this strategy is considering how youth justice policy might be more closely aligned to other child and youth policies and the promotion of community and local development. A key priority is prevention and early intervention is necessary to bring together all of the relevant agencies and programmes. I am a firm believer in everybody working together. All of the different agencies, Departments and services need to sit at the table and work together to see what we can do in communities, in particular communities most at risk and where children are vulnerable. I want to welcome this.

The reason I spoke today is because the youth strategy is important. It is always said that prevention is better than cure. We now have to find that prevention. I know families where a child took a wrong road or whatever. We also need support for families and be able to help the family of a child who may have taken a wrong road. We need to work more with the Garda. I am a firm believer in the Garda. We only have two community gardaí in Carlow town. The Minister of State has told me that is not within his remit but we need to recruit more gardaí. We need community gardaí on the beat and going into areas that are vulnerable. I call for more gardaí for County Carlow.

We held a community meeting recently in Tullow, another area which is crying out for gardaí. I ask that there be talks between the Minister of State and other Departments. I want to welcome the Minister, Deputy McEntee, back from maternity leave. We need more gardaí on the beat, more community gardaí and more involvement. I pay tribute to all of the gardaí and the work they do. I want to pay tribute to all the volunteers and the great work they do. I welcome the strategy.

Minister of State at the Department of Justice (Deputy James Browne)

I thank Deputies for their contributions. As they may be aware, updates on progress in relation to the youth justice strategy are published as part of the annual implementation update. The implementation statement for 2021 is available on my Department's website and the 2022 statement is being worked on at present. I would like to speak on some additional policy objectives in the youth justice strategy.

We know that young adults aged 18 to 24 are disproportionately represented in the prison population. Scientific evidence tells us that the human brain's maturity continues to develop beyond adolescence and into the mid-20s. A conviction for a young adult can feed into re-offending and negatively impact the entire community, which is to no one's benefit. It can result in a chain reaction of negative outcomes for a young person, limiting employment opportunities, preventing people from getting visas to travel abroad and social exclusion, all of which can feed into re-offending cycles.

It is important that we consider the supports and interventions needed for young people as they move into adulthood, as personal circumstances do not change overnight when people turn 18 years of age. In November 2022, I published a discussion paper on diverting young adults aged 18 to 24 away from entry into the wider criminal justice system, in line with a commitment in the programme for Government and youth justice strategy. The proposals contained in the discussion paper suggest extending a system similar to the Garda youth diversion scheme for young adults aged 18 to 24 who offend.

We want to explore whether a comparatively more humane approach that focuses less on imprisonment and more on rehabilitation and restorative justice could offer improved outcomes for victims, offenders, and wider society. The consultation closed in January and my Department is currently considering the results. My Department will hold an open policy forum in the coming months to provide a further opportunity for consultation and engagement with stakeholders which will include expert speakers, discussion groups, and feedback. It is important we get this right by fully engaging with all relevant stakeholders and I look forward to doing that in the upcoming open policy forums in the autumn.

The Youth Justice Strategy 2021-2027 also includes a commitment to review and amend the Children Act 2001 as required to give effect to the objectives in the strategy, and to carry out a detailed stakeholder consultation to help refine and finalise a full package of amendments to the Act. The Children Act 2001 provided the first coherent framework for the development of a youth justice system since the foundation of the State. In practice, some of the provisions of the Children Act 2001 have not operated in the manner intended by the legislators. Following these stakeholder consultations my Department is now examining the provisions that are not being used or applied as intended in practice, and drafting proposed amendments to ensure the effective utilisation from the courts. Any amendments will be consistent with the principles of detention as a last resort, and the best interests of the child. A key policy question in reviewing the Act is whether the frameworks it established are still appropriate, relevant, and functional. Consultations are ongoing with our youth justice partners and with comprehensive proposals now under discussion.

Finally, let me say again that youth diversion is not about young people avoiding punishment or consequences. The aim of the statutory Garda Youth Diversion Programme is to prevent young between the ages of 12 and 17 from entering the criminal justice system. An Garda Síochána's decision on whether to admit a young person to the diversion programme is based on a number of factors, such as the nature of the offence, the impact of the offence on the community, the views of the victim, and the offending history of the young person. Diversion is not used for very serious offences or for serious repeat offending. I believe all young people deserve the opportunity to improve their quality of life, and deserve the have the choices to be able to make better life decisions for themselves.

Deputy Ó Laoghaire raised the issue of the cut-off point being at 18. There is no policy under the youth diversion projects that work with young participants that states that when the young person reaches the age of 18 he or she4 should then finish. If the young person still needs support it can be provided. Many projects continue to provide such support beyond the age of 18. I have been to visit many youth diversion projects where they can actually continue past the age of 18. I just wanted to clarify that point.

Deputy Lawless raised the issue of children ageing out and being prosecuted as adults. We will deal with this issue through legislation later this year. The youth justice strategy contains a commitment to the effect that young people should be prosecuted based on the age they were when they committed the crime and not the age at prosecution. The suspended sentence issue will also be dealt with. Deputy Mark Ward raised the Clondalkin Equine Centre. I am not aware of any approach made to the Department of Justice for funding. We do have a Crosscare youth diversion project in that area. I am happy for my Department to be part of those discussions with the Department of Agriculture, Food, and the Marine, the Department of Rural and Community Development and the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, their youth service elements, and the local authority on the future of the centre.

I thank the Cathaoirligh and the Deputies for their contributions to this debate and I look forward to further engagement on this matter.