Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 21 Jun 2023

Vol. 1040 No. 4

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

School Accommodation

Deputy Jennifer Whitmore

I want to raise the issue of the need for temporary accommodation for both Temple Carrig School in Greystones, and Blessington Community College in Blessington. It is nine weeks until students will return to secondary school for the 2023-24 academic year, and neither Temple Carrig School nor Blessington Community College has sufficient accommodation to house the intake that is due this August and September. Both schools have been searching and asking the Department for information as to when the promised and committed temporary accommodation will be made available to them. As the Minister of State can imagine, the schools, the parents and the students are getting very concerned about this delay.

Temple Carrig School has agreed to take extra students in since 2020. It has increased its capacity significantly and, as a result, the Department committed to it that it would provide it with four temporary classrooms to accommodate those students. The school ran two procurement processes that were requested by the Department in order to obtain that accommodation and those classrooms, and each time the school was told the Department had either changed the goalposts or did not agree with the procurement process. The school has therefore spent a year doing what the Department has asked it to do, and each time the Department has changed the process and changed its opinion on it. As a result, the school now does not have accommodation for September because of difficulties, flaws and delays within the Department's process. This has nothing to do with the school; no fault at all is attached to it. It did everything correctly and did everything the Department asked it to do, but the Department changed its mind as to what it wanted in that procurement.

The Department has said subsequently that it would obtain accommodation from another school in Donabate and move it to Temple Carrig School but it still cannot say when that will happen. All it is saying is that it will probably be after the first mid-term break. That is not acceptable. It is not acceptable for the Department to work with a school, to ask it to take in extra students, to make a commitment that accommodation will be provided for them, to request that the school put a huge amount of effort into running procurement processes, to change the goalposts and now, when the school is left without sufficient accommodation, not even to tell the school when the temporary accommodation will be put in. What is even more remarkable is that there is temporary accommodation in a neighbouring school that one could spend literally half a day moving up to Temple Carrig School, yet the Department wants these prefabs to come from Donabate, which will take a number of months for some reason.

The Minister of State's Department has had three weeks to prepare the response to this Topical Issue because it has been three weeks since I first raised this. I really hope the Minister of State has come to me today with dates as to when both these schools will have their temporary accommodation because parents and schools need certainty on that.

Minister of State at the Department of Education (Deputy Thomas Byrne)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta as an ábhar seo a chur mar shaincheist sa Dáil. It provides me with an opportunity, on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Foley, who cannot be here this morning, to outline the current position in respect of capital projects to deliver replacement and additional accommodation for Blessington Community College and Temple Carrig School under the reconfiguration and modular accommodation programme.

With respect to Blessington Community College, the school authority, which is Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board, KWETB, applied to the Department for additional accommodation under the additional school accommodation scheme to cater for increased enrolment pending delivery of its major capital project to cater for an agreed long-term projected enrolment of 1,000 pupils. Approval was granted to the school authority for the replacement of four existing prefabricated units, which were in poor condition and unused, and for a further two general classrooms, which will provide Blessington Community College with a total of six additional general classrooms. The project as outlined is being delivered under the Department of Education's devolved reconfiguration and modular accommodation programme. That programme is a new stream under the additional school accommodation scheme, which provides the services of a project manager to help the school authority with delivery. That approach supports accelerated delivery of the accommodation and maximises help for the school authority for the delivery of the brief.

The project for Blessington Community College will be delivered from the Department's procurement frameworks, which offer schools the option to provide and deliver a turnkey project with efficiency in terms of timelines, experience and tried and tested service with professional design teams and contractors. Projects delivered under this scheme are devolved to school authorities under the terms and conditions of the scheme, and it is a matter for schools to progress these projects on that basis, subject to departmental review at various points in the process. I wish to point out that under this programme the number of stages has been minimised to ensure efficiency of delivery while maintaining the necessary governance structure. The process for this programme is that the project manager visits the school site and, in consultation with the school authority, prepares a viability report to identify the best accommodation solution for submission to the Department for consideration and approval. On approval, the Department notifies the school authority that it may proceed to the next stage subject to its agreement of the final project brief, which is confirmed by signing a form of acceptance. On receipt of the form of acceptance, the Department issues the first tranche of three stages of funding.

The school authority, in conjunction with its project manager, can then appoint contractors and works can commence.

I am pleased to confirm that significant progress has been made to date on the urgent provision of school accommodation for Blessington Community College. The assigned project manager has carried out a site visit and has held a number of meetings with the school authority. A suitable site location has been identified for the new accommodation. While the school authority, KWETB, has overall responsibility for delivery of the project, officials from the Department of Education hold weekly meetings with the assigned project managers to ensure this project remains on track for delivery in the next academic year.

With regard to Temple Carrig School, the school authority made an application for additional accommodation under the additional school accommodation scheme to cater for increased enrolment, pending delivery of its capital budget. This project is approved and is being delivered under the Department's devolved reconfiguration and modular accommodation programme. The brief for the modular accommodation project is to provide four general classrooms to cater for the school's increased enrolment for September 2023. The Department has identified suitable modular accommodation to be relocated to Temple Carrig School, as the Deputy has outlined. The delivery of this project has also been devolved to the school authority, which has overall responsibility for the delivery of the project, and it will be helped by an assigned project manager. The project is currently at detailed design stage and preparation of statutory applications with an estimated completion date for the 2023-24 school year.

Deputy Jennifer Whitmore

Given that the Minister of State knew this question was going to be put to him, I cannot believe he has not come in here to tell me that both of these schools will have the accommodation they need in place for September this year. No dates and no firm commitments have been given. What is plan B? What happens if that accommodation is not provided? Schools are talking about putting in remote learning solutions and dropping back to four-day weeks. Is that what the Department expects schools to do to cater for the number of children enrolled? It is completely unacceptable.

The Minister of State said that the KWETB project in Blessington is on track for delivery in the next academic year. Does that mean it is not on track for September? Does it mean that the Department has now stated it will not be in place in September?

The Minister of State said of the Temple Carrig School project that the overall responsibility is with the school. Is it up to Temple Carrig School to go to Donabate and move that temporary accommodation to County Wicklow? Is that now the role of schools? Are they movers for the Department of Education?

This response is unacceptable. It indicates to me that the level of bureaucracy means an enormous amount of time and energy is being spent going through all these processes and steps. All the schools are looking for is the simple provision of four classrooms each. That is all they are looking for. Surely the Department should be in a position to say it will ensure the accommodation, which it has asked the schools to provide for students, will be in place when the students start at the school. Surely that is all that is needed.

Will the Minister of State please give me a commitment that both of these schools will have the temporary accommodation they need in place for September? If he cannot give that commitment, will he please outline what he expects schools to do, what is plan B and how will schools accommodate the students who are enrolled for September?

Deputy Thomas Byrne

I thank the Deputy for raising these issues. On behalf of the Minister, Deputy Foley, I reassure the House that her Department is committed to the accelerated provision of the urgent school accommodation the Deputy has talked about for Blessington Community College and Temple Carrig School.

In the wider context, the Department of Education is conscious of the urgency in providing accelerated delivery of school accommodation at both schools. Officials in the Department are working closely with both school authorities and the assigned project managers to ensure timely delivery of the accommodation. The provision of school accommodation to meet the need for school places, both mainstream and for students with special educational needs, is a priority for the Department.

I know the Deputy has suggested that perhaps there is too much bureaucracy or too many processes. I outlined earlier that we have tried to reduce these processes but the Deputy will know that these processes, some of which are statutory, are absolutely necessary to be complied with. If the Department did not comply, there would be issues. To be clear, the provision of accommodation to meet the need for school places is an absolute priority for the Department.

Department officials will continue to work with both schools and the project managers who have been assigned to deliver the required accommodation we know is needed in those schools.

Deputy Jennifer Whitmore

To be fully clear, will the accommodation be in place for both schools for September?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Go raibh maith agat, a Theachta.

School Funding

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

The issue I am raising with the Minister of State is astonishing in its injustice. There is a situation whereby schools across the country have welcomed children from refugee and asylum-seeking families with a good heart. They are nurturing and educating those children, and have welcomed them into their schools. I want to give an example from one school in Donegal but there are many other examples I could give across the county and the country. I have one example on my desk. Sessiaghoneill National School had 152 children enrolled on 30 September, which is the date on which enrolment is reported. Within weeks, it had an extra 52 children from asylum-seeker and refugee families. That is an increase of one third in the school population. However, it has not received any additional financial support per child in the school, as would be normal. This school has nurtured, cared for and educated these children with a good heart. It estimates the situation has cost it over €30,000. It has nothing left in its bank account. Apparently, officials from the Department of Education advised the school to consider going to the Society of St. Vincent de Paul or the Red Cross.

That is a school that was looking to care for and nurture children. It has been left in considerable financial difficulty and nobody will resolve the issue for it. Everybody says they are sorry but if the kids in question are not registered on 30 September, nothing can be done. That is crazy bureaucracy. People are looking at this situation whereby the resources of the school have run dry. There are also people who are organising accommodation across the country and making a hell of a lot of money from this crisis. Some of them are very good at providing accommodation and some of them are not so good but are still making a hell of a lot of money from this crisis. This is a small school and we are leaving it €30,000 in the red while we are enriching some people across the State. People see that. They are intelligent and see that. I am sure the Minister of State will agree that this is wrong. There will be schools across the country with tremendous people who are nurturers, educators and carers, providing wonderful environments for these kids who are coming from all sorts of situations. The lives of those kids have been turned upside down and they have experienced enormous trauma. These are exactly the types of environments we want them to be in. The people who make provision for them should be compensated, at the very least. Children from the parish in question and children who have come here from another country should both attract the same level of financial assistance from the Department. This situation is wrong. It is bureaucracy.

I know the Minister of State is going to read a statement on behalf of the Department of Education which will lay out some formulaic policy. He, like me, is a public representative. I think he knows that what I am describing is absolutely wrong on every single level. I ask him to please engage with the Department officials and the Minister to find some practical solution. We cannot have a situation where schools are being impoverished while people who are speculative developers are making a huge amount of money from this crisis.

Deputy Thomas Byrne

I am responding on behalf of the Minister for Education, who I know is conscious of the need to ensure that schools are supported, enabling them to maximise teaching and learning outcomes for all students. It is vitally important that the education system is one where all children and young people feel equally supported. All migrant children, including children of international protection applicants, refugees, migrant workers and unaccompanied minors can access preschool, primary and post-primary education in a manner similar to Irish nationals until they are 18.

My Department provides funding to all recognised schools in the free education scheme by way of per capita grants. These grants are based on recognised enrolments in the September of the relevant school year. The Department provided more than €660 million in capitation grants to schools in 2022.

School staffing arrangements at primary and post-primary levels are primarily determined by the staffing schedule for the relevant school year and pupil enrolments on 30 September. The special education teaching, SET, allocation model provides all schools with a baseline teaching allocation based on enrolments to help pupils who have learning and literacy difficulties, including those arising from English additional language needs. In addition to the normal staffing allocation to schools I have outlined, which are based on the previous September's enrolment figures, additional English-language support teachers and mainstream class teachers have been made available to schools on an ongoing basis through the school year to support pupil enrolments arising from the war in Ukraine and the rising number of families seeking asylum. Additional SET hours were also provided in 2022-23 to deal with the increased enrolments of these pupils in our schools. A similar scheme will be in place for the 2023-24 school year. In the case of special needs assistants, the support is allocated based on the advice of the National Council for Special Education.

For the 2023-24 school year, the Minister has introduced a landmark new scheme that signifies a new chapter in Irish primary education to provide free school books for all primary and special school pupils. In March last year the Minister was glad to be able to announce a major expansion of the DEIS programme, benefiting 361 schools, which has taken the total expenditure on DEIS in 2023 to over €180 million. We have also recently announced a new pilot programme to start in September to provide significant counselling and mental health supports to children in primary schools. As part of the cost-of-living measures introduced in budget 2023, some €90 million issued at the end of 2022 in once-off additional capitation funding to support increased running costs for recognised schools in the free education scheme.

I will bring the Deputy's points and what he has said back to the Department. I want to hear more from the Deputy afterwards about the statement that somebody from the Department told a school to go to the Society of St. Vincent de Paul. If that is the case, we need to know about it because that is certainly not the policy of the Department of Education.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

As I have said, what I have here in front of me is a brief that was sent from the school to the Deputies in Donegal. I quote directly from this brief where it says: "In fact we were advised by Department representatives to contact our local Red Cross or St. Vincent de Paul." That is their testimony, so somebody has done that.

The report also shows that they have 52 additional children. Normally a school would get capitation rates per child. Covid cleaning comes from that along with minor works, free school books grants, ancillary services grants, once-off cost-of-living grants, standardised testing grants and digital strategy grants. That is the level of grants per capita. It is €30,000. If these children had been registered two weeks previously, the school would have had €30,000. It is not defensible. The school is telling me that there is nothing left in the accounts. The school has been wonderful. They have created a safe, educating and nurturing environment for these children and they are happy to do it. They believe that these children add to their school. They are more than happy to do it but they are being punished and impoverished for doing the right thing. That cannot stand. I have raised this through a parliamentary question with the Minister and today I am nearly begging that this would be resolved. The Minister of State, Deputy Byrne, is aware that there are people who have made a hell of a lot of money from this crisis, who have just turned around buildings and made accommodation available. They have made a lot of money and they are doing really well, thank you very much, in this crisis. We cannot have this happening and yet a school that has done right by our people and tries to support these children from refugee and asylum seeker families, including traumatised children, would be financially impoverished. This must be sorted out. Surely somebody in the Department can intervene and sort this out.

Deputy Thomas Byrne

I will certainly take all of that back to the Department and to my senior Minister. I understand the need for increased capitation funding. Capitation rates have increased by 7.5% in recent years and all schools have benefited from that. The Minister intends to seek funding for further capitation increases in future budgets. In addition, the scope of the regional education and language teams has expanded beyond serving Ukrainian families. It now encompasses the educational needs of all international protection asylum seeker arrivals. I reiterate the Department's commitment to supporting children from refugee and asylum seeker families so they are enabled to continue their education in the State. The Department and the Minister will work to ensure that the funding and resources in place are appropriate to meet the needs of this cohort of children and young people. The bottom line for the Government in all of this is to ensure that all of our obligations and the humanitarian needs of refugees and people under the temporary protection directive are met, that our legal obligations are met, and that the humanitarian rights are protected. It is not about who is making money or not making money; it is about making sure everybody gets what they need. We absolutely accept that the schools need the resources. The Department is committed to providing the resources, as I have outlined in my statements.

Fiscal Policy

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I seek to bring to the attention of the House the activities in recent times of some lending institutions, fund managers and their successors. This mainly relates to funds that were sold over from the pillar banks in a package to the investment fund managers. Some of them are being sold on again to third parties. I am not too certain whether they are fully regulated, but I am sure they are. I am concerned at the tendency - I observe a new urgency now - on the part of asset managers who, with a renewed vigour, seem to have the attitude of pursuing the borrowers in a way that was not evident in the past.

This also relates to cases where the lending institutions concerned, or their forebears, had ample opportunity to enter into an arrangement with the borrowers but they always rejected whatever offer was put forward on the basis that it was unsustainable. It was unsustainable from their point of view but readily sustainable from the point of view of the borrower in reducing the debt. In many cases that offer was refused and as a result the debt remains and has increased. Obviously it has increased with interest rates and so on. Notwithstanding all of the help that has been made available by various ways and means, I also observe a tendency to cut corners, for instance by getting an updated repossession order for a property after the property was repossessed and sold. I do not mind people pretending that they can do these things and get away with it but I do not believe we should allow any institution get away with that kind of nonsense because it is establishing a precedent that gives them huge power over the borrower. Do not let us forget that the borrowers in many of these cases are people who over the last ten years or so were subjected to continuous harassment from the lender. In one case that I am aware of, the lending institution representative appeared on the doorstep of a widow on a nightly basis or until such time as he forced her out of the house and forced the sale of the house in order to keep his books balanced.

All of this occurred as a result of the lending institutions of this country lending unwisely. They will say that the borrower had a hand in this as well. Yes, we know that but the lending institutions were primarily responsible for lending to the extent way beyond the collateral available, and which they knew was not there. They had always in their minds the intention of ensuring they did not lose. I suggest that we examine what is going on at present to look at the tendency to put people into receivership in much quicker order than previously, and the forcing of the issue to a conclusion in a way that is not to the advantage of the borrower. These unfortunate people have suffered a great deal over the past number of years not as a result of what they did but because of what the banks did to the country in general when they put the country in hock to themselves. It was nobody else. They held all of the cards. I ask the Minister of State to ensure we look at them very carefully, and examine their activities with a view to finding out if they are cutting corners and, if so, where they are doing so and to what extent.

Minister of State at the Department of Rural and Community Development (Deputy Joe O'Brien)

I thank Deputy Durkan for raising this issue. The Central Bank has put in place a range of measures to protect customers who take out a mortgage or have another loan.

This consumer protection framework seeks to ensure that all Central Bank regulated entities are transparent and fair in all their dealings with borrowers and that borrowers are protected from the beginning to the end of the mortgage life cycle. This includes, for example, through protections at the initial marketing and advertising stage and assessing the affordability and suitability of the mortgage at a time when borrowers might find themselves in financial difficulties.

This consumer protection framework applies to all Central Bank regulated entities that provide credit to consumers. Also, following the enactment of the Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Acts of 2015 and 2018, the Central Bank consumer protection framework equally applies to any entity that services or holds the legal title to the rights of a creditor under a mortgage or other credit agreement. Therefore, any entity which purchases a loan or acquires the legal rights of a creditor under a consumer credit agreement will, unless it already has an appropriate authorisation from the Central Bank, be required to be authorised by the Central Bank as a credit servicing firm or retail credit firm. These regulated entities must act in accordance with Irish financial services law and the consumer protection regulatory framework that applies to all Central Bank regulated firms. This means that where a creditor sells or assigns its legal rights under a credit agreement to another creditor, the consumer protections that were available to borrowers prior to such a transaction remain in place. Therefore, the new creditor that acquires the contractual rights and benefits of the creditor will do so based on the terms of the existing loan agreement and the regulatory protections available to consumers. Accordingly, any new creditor will only be able to enforce a credit agreement in accordance with the relevant terms of the particular agreement and the relevant consumer protection framework.

This consumer protection framework is strong and it includes the various Central Bank statutory codes of conduct, such as the consumer protection code and the code of conduct on mortgage arrears, CCMA. In particular, the CCMA provides specific protections to borrowers in arrears or facing a prospect of arrears on a loan secured on a primary residence. Under the CCMA, all relevant regulated entities, such as a bank, retail credit firm or credit servicing firm, must proactively encourage borrowers to engage with them about financial difficulties that may prevent the borrower from meeting his or her mortgage repayments. Also, where a borrower is experiencing repayment difficulty, a regulated entity must explore all of the options for an alternative repayment arrangement, ARA, offered by the entity to determine if a more suitable and sustainable repayment option is available based on the borrower’s individual circumstances. If a borrower is not satisfied with the options proposed, or if the regulated entity declines to offer an ARA, an appeals mechanism is provided for in the CCMA. In addition, a regulated entity must review an ARA at intervals that are appropriate to the type and duration of the arrangement, including at least 30 calendar days in advance of an ARA coming to an end.

The Central Bank has advised that it expects all regulated entities, including retail credit and credit servicing firms, to take a consumer-focused approach in respect of any decision that affects their customers, both existing and new, and to communicate clearly, effectively and in a timely manner with all customers. In particular, it indicates that the protection of mortgage loan borrowers, including those in arrears, is a key priority and that it will continue to supervise compliance by all regulated entities with the CCMA and consumer protection code and other relevant financial services legislation.

While there has recently been an increase in short-term arrears, it should also be noted that progress is still being made on reducing long-term arrears. As the Deputy will be aware, last week the Central Bank produced its mortgage arrears statistics for the first quarter of 2023. They showed that non-banks hold 76% of all primary dwelling home mortgage accounts in arrears over one year. They also showed that the number of accounts in long-term arrears continues to decline and now stands at a little over 22,000, having been 26,000 in March 2022. This is the lowest level of long-term arrears since the Central Bank started to collect its data on mortgage arrears.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I thank the Minister of State for his comprehensive reply. What he says is accurate. That is the way this is supposed to work but it is not the way it is working. To what extent can this House ensure that what the Minister of State has just intoned to the House actually happens and that every borrower gets the same chance to recover, regardless of whether he or she is in arrears? There is no sense in saying we will continue as we were and pay back as we should have at the beginning. That option has been gone for a long time. We have a different regime and we have to accommodate the needs of the customer to a far greater extent. I suggest that something be done as a matter of urgency through the Central Bank or the regulator, to ensure that exactly that which the Minister of State indicated happens. We must ensure consumers get a fair chance to do a variety of things and do not find themselves painted into a corner whereby the response is the same whenever an offer is put forward. Incidentally, like everybody else in this House, I have put forward scores of these offers and invariably the answer has been that these are not sustainable and cannot be accepted. The lending institutions are the arbiters of what is right and wrong, which is not what is supposed to happen.

I thank the Minister of State for his reply. It would be helpful if a review were conducted by one of the bodies I have suggested to identify where there are deviations from the regulations in favour of the lending institutions.

Deputy Joe O'Brien

I thank Deputy Durkan for the opportunity to speak to the House on this issue. All regulated entities, including banks, other regulated mortgage lenders, loan owners and services are required, as a matter of law, to follow the statutory Central Bank codes of conduct, including the code of conduct on mortgage arrears and the consumer protection codes. These codes are not voluntary and there can be no question of the regulated owners not following them. Failure to do so can result in the Central Bank using its range of powers to ensure adherence to the codes, including employing its administrative sanctions procedures or legal action, where appropriate. If the Deputy has information to indicate that a regulated firm is not complying with the Central Bank’s consumer protection framework, I ask that he submit it to the Central Bank, which is the independent regulator of these financial institutions.

In addition to the protections available to consumers under financial legislation and regulatory framework, a consumer also has recourse to the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman, FSPO. If a consumer is not satisfied with how a regulated firm is dealing with him or her in the handling of his or her mortgage or believes the regulated firm is not following the requirements of the Central Bank’s codes and regulations or other financial services law, he or she should make a complaint directly to the regulated firm. If the consumer is still not satisfied with the response from the regulated firm, he or she can refer the complaint to the FSPO, which is the independent statutory office provided for in law to adjudicate on complaints a consumer has with a regulated financial services provider.

I encourage any person who is experiencing a repayment difficulty, or who has any other genuine concern regarding a mortgage, to contact, in the first instance, his or her mortgage creditor to discuss the matter. It is essential that, in turn, these Central Bank regulated entities, irrespective of whether it is a bank, retail credit or credit servicing firm, constructively engage with their borrowers to address any legitimate concern raised and to act fairly in the interest of their customers. That is what they are required to do under the Central Bank consumer protection framework and it is the minimum standard Central Bank-regulated firms are expected to comply with.

Medical Aids and Appliances

Deputy Thomas Gould

I will raise the case of Michael Barry with the Minister of State. Michael, who is ten years old, has been prescribed a new wheelchair by the HSE. He desperately needs it, particularly coming into the summer months when he should be able to get out and about with his family and friends and enjoy the good weather. I have seen a letter that was sent to Michael's mother. Michael was given a prescription on 5 May. The HSE advised that the resource allocation group only funds a certain number of prescriptions every time it meets and there was no timeline given for when Michael would get his wheelchair. How is this acceptable? A prescription should be funded. It is given on the basis of a person's need. There is no reason given for this decision. Once his prescription is funded, Michael will get his wheelchair but it will need to be ordered, which will take time. Michael deserves to enjoy the summer with his family and to live in comfort. He needs to get his new wheelchair.

I am disappointed that the Minister of State with responsibility for disability, Deputy Rabbitte, is not here to take this Topical Issue debate. She comes into the House an awful lot talking about how funding is not an issue and telling us what she wants to do. That sounds great and ambitious but she is failing Michael. I ask the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien, to ask her to instruct the funding allocation group to fund all prescriptions that come before it at every meeting.

The Government is saying money is not the problem. In fact, it is the problem because these prescriptions are not being funded when they are needed.

Every summer since I became a Deputy, families have contacted me about issues with their children accessing equipment. Last year, there was a situation in which a child who was waiting for a wheelchair could not go on a school trip because there was no wheelchair available that was suitable and big enough for the child. No child should miss trips away with his or her school or family in such circumstances. It is a scandal that children and families are being left in this position. The Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, come in here and say funding is not an issue when it comes to providing services and equipment to people with disabilities. Here we have a child who has a prescription to get a new wheelchair because he is too big for his existing one. The provision of the equipment is being dictated by budgets, not by medical need.

Surely the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien, agrees with me that a child should not have to wait for an essential piece of equipment. That is what a wheelchair is. Michael should not be expected to crush himself into a wheelchair that is too small. This is a child with serious health issues and a serious disability. The State is failing Michael. I met and spoke to him and his mother and father at the weekend. Why should they be in this position? Will the Minister of State go back to the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, and ask her to instruct the HSE that funding be given for Michael and for any child or person with a disability who has a prescription for equipment that is urgently needed, whether it is a wheelchair or anything else, and they will not be left waiting for weeks and months? Will he give that commitment today?

Deputy Joe O'Brien

On behalf of the Minister for Health, I thank Deputy Gould for raising this matter with reference to the situation of Michael Barry. It is an issue that is of importance to many children and their families in CHO 4. The HSE provides an extensive range of medical aids and appliances to individuals living with a wide variety of different medical conditions. These aids and appliances support individuals to continue living within their communities and enjoy a greater quality of life than would otherwise be the case.

The community-funded schemes, CFS, is the collective name for the provision of these products and services. The HSE spends in excess of €300 million per annum on their provision nationally. The medical aids and appliances are prescribed on the basis of an identified clinical need. The HSE advises that current vacancies in children's disability network teams, CDNTs, can cause delays in these assessments being carried out. However, this is not a matter in which the local resource allocation group is involved. The role of the local resource allocation group is to make a determination regarding funding approval for each application within the CHO. This determination is based on the clinical priority and the funding available. In this regard, the HSE notes that it is important the applicant's requirements are assessed appropriately before prescribing any device.

At times, due to the demand for resources exceeding the available capacity, waiting lists may apply for some categories of items. However, a range of initiatives is undertaken to ensure optimum use of resources, including recycling of appropriate items. Waiting times for approved items also vary depending on the priority rating. In addition, they may be affected by the following factors: the time required for the appropriate clinical assessment to be undertaken; the time taken for the approval process, which can be impacted by the value of the equipment being requested and the available budget; the time for the manufacturing process, if it is not a stock item; and the time for shipping and delivery, depending on the particular item being requested. The HSE advises that clinical demands on local budgets remain high.

The provision of wheelchairs by the HSE to eligible people is based on several criteria, the most important of which is assessed clinical need. A priority rating that assesses the impact of the particular equipment on the individual's quality of life, the length of time waiting for the equipment and the available budget are other factors that form part of the decision-making process. At present, the wait time from clinical assessment and approval for standard wheelchairs that are kept as stock items is normally no more than one to two weeks. For bespoke and powered wheelchairs, which need to be manufactured and delivered by the supplier, the wait time is longer and can be up to 12 weeks.

The HSE established a national service improvement programme to develop national prescribing guidelines with the aim of improving the value for money and equality of access of the CFS. In respect of aids and appliances, the category lists are completed and category-specific information for prescribers is now published on the HSE website. The work to improve services is ongoing and further milestones will be reached in the pursuit of the aim to improve the quality of the services the HSE provides to assist people with different medical conditions to live within their communities. I promise the Deputy I will address the specifics of the issue he raised to the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, this evening.

Deputy Thomas Gould

I received a similar response from the HSE to the one Michael's mother received. It acknowledges that while a wheelchair might be considered essential by families, the resource allocation group has to make priority-based decisions. Wheelchairs are not just essential for families; they are essential for the lives and well-being of children. It is shocking that an appropriately sized wheelchair cannot be sourced for a child and no timeframe has been given for when it will be available.

I listened to the response from the HSE the Minister of State read out. What I take from it are the references to value for money, local budgets and timelines. We are talking about children with special needs, additional needs and disabilities. We are talking about health-based decisions to improve their quality of life. The Minister of State mentioned quality of life. Where is the quality of life for Michael and all the other children who are waiting for equipment? The Minister of State also mentioned assessments. Michael has a prescription. It has been prescribed that this child needs this equipment. Reference was made to budgets being under pressure. How can the Minister of State say in response to a child who needs a new wheelchair because he has grown that budgets are under pressure? Does he know who is under pressure? That child and his family are under pressure. Parents of children with disabilities have had to fight the State at every turn and corner for provision for their children. It is not good enough. Medical equipment should be given on the basis of need and health, not on the basis of local budgets being under pressure.

Deputy Joe O'Brien

I again thank the Deputy, on behalf of the Minister, for raising this matter of great importance to children and their families in CHO 4. The aids and appliances provided by the HSE under the community-funded schemes support individuals to continue living within their communities. They are prescribed on the basis of an identified clinical need and provided in line with established criteria. The HSE advises that age is not a factor when a clinical need is identified. However, vacancies in the children's disability network teams can cause delays in clinical assessments being carried out. This may delay the prescription of appropriate products but is not a matter on which the resource allocation group could have an impact.

Once approved for funding by the resource allocation group, waiting times for items vary, depending on the priority rating. Priority is given to individuals with the greatest level of clinical need. The waiting time for approval of stock items is generally no more than two weeks. For bespoke items such as powered wheelchairs, which need to be designed, manufactured and delivered by the supplier, the waiting time is longer. The HSE reports that the national service improvement programme for aids and appliances has resulted in completed category lists. Category-specific information for prescribers is now published on the HSE website. The work to improve services is ongoing.

When I read the response from the Department, I asked about timelines, considering that the assessment is already done in the case of the child to whom the Deputy referred. I was informed that the resource allocation groups meet once a month to make decisions. It might be helpful to look at how that is done. I will raise the issue of budgets with the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, this evening. I urge the Deputy to do the same.

Deputy Thomas Gould

I will forward the details to both Ministers of State.