Vol. 1040 No. 6
30. Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh asked the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform the steps he is taking to ensure that public expenditure on consulting contracts does not expose the State to any risks through the loss of expertise over time within the public sector and the sharing of sensitive information with private economic actors; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31358/23]
What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that the public expenditure on consulting contracts does not expose the State to risks through the loss of expertise over time within the public sector and the sharing of sensitive information with private economic actors?
In line with public financial procedures and public procurement guidelines, it is the responsibility of all public bodies to ensure that they have effective financial management, public procurement and risk management processes in place. This applies to all areas of public spending, including in respect of consulting contracts.
The Office of Government Procurement, OGP, in my Department supports procurement compliance by providing procurement solutions, advice, guidance and systems for public bodies. The OGP has also established central buying arrangements for common goods and services to provide for consistent implementation of policy objectives, help deliver value for money, administrative savings and efficiencies for buyers and suppliers, and improve risk management. It is the responsibility of each contracting authority to manage its procurement contracts, ensure compliance with all national and EU procurement rules and procedures, and ensure adherence to the terms and conditions within these contracts.
With regard to sensitive information, the OGP’s contracts and standardised template documents contain substantive provisions to address confidentiality and conflict-of-interest matters. The tenderer’s statement, a formal document in the tendering process, constitutes acceptance of the request for tender conditions, the contract terms and conditions and the confidentiality agreement. As per these conditions, suppliers are required to carry out a conflict-of-interest check and ensure that any conflicts arising in the course of the contract are raised with the client. In such circumstances, the client has grounds to terminate the contract immediately. Within my Department and in line with these guidelines, these templates are utilised by staff when procuring services above the EU threshold.
On the broader point the Deputy made about expertise within the public sector, this matter is dealt with in our new strategy, Better Public Services 2030, which includes workforce of the future as one of its three pillars. This reflects a strong focus on ensuring that our staff are appropriately skilled for the future.
Over time, the over-reliance on public consultants leads to the loss of expertise and institutional knowledge in the public sector. Recent revelations in Australia have raised the potential for an even more immediate risk, the risk of sharing highly sensitive information with private consultants and then using that information for their own commercial gain. What steps has the Minister taken to ensure that public expenditure on consulting contracts does not expose the State to these risks? Like RTÉ, those in the workforce of PwC or any other consulting firm in Ireland are not responsible for the behaviour of senior executives. Indeed, they may well become the casualties of that type of behaviour.
However, the fact remains that PwC used sensitive information it acquired working with the Australian Government regarding multinational corporation tax. A partner at PwC emailed other PwC offices including PwC Ireland directly to share details of PwC's work on the Australian tax policy. It is shocking that that did not immediately trigger internal disciplinary action. Has the Government sought information from PwC Ireland of who had knowledge of this misuse of confidential information?
Regarding what the Government is doing on the matter, I ask the Deputy to allow me to elaborate further on the general issue of how we protect sensitive information from not only the relationships that we have with consulting companies but, more generally, the overall procurement processes that we have with those who do work on behalf of the State. This is laid out in a number of different areas in the standard template documents that are used to agree contracts. It is contained in the tenderer's statement which constitutes acceptance of the request for tender conditions, the contract terms and conditions, and confidentiality agreement. Specifically, clause 8 states that each of the parties to this agreement agree to hold confidential all information, documentation and other material received. That is laid out into procurement contract that we have. That is further developed in subclause D and in clause 10.B. These documents are available on the OGP website.
I thank the Minister for that, but the question I asked was whether he had sought information from PwC. Was he concerned about what happened in Australia and the connection to Ireland? Notwithstanding all of the guarantees and safeguards he says are there, I would have thought that if something like this happened, the Minister would have sought extra assurance. The top tier of PwC has simply not approached this in an open and transparent manner. The internal review the Minister mentioned is an attempt to avoid transparency and oversight. In 2015 when senior PwC staff in Australia were sharing confidential tax information globally, there were secondments to the Department of Finance here, working in the tax division. Will the Minister implement a review of the practice of secondments from private consultants into the public sector? Does he have oversight of the number of private consultants working with confidential information either through contracts or secondments? We need to look at this with a fresh set of eyes, particularly given what has happened in recent times.
As I made clear, this matter is dealt with by each Department in a way that is consistent with the clear legal framework that I outlined. I have no doubt that the consulting arrangements and the relationship the Department of Finance has with consultants will be consistent with the framework that I have just referred to here in the Dáil. If Department of Finance officials had any reason to believe that information they were sharing with any consultant would be used in an inappropriate way, I am absolutely certain they would act very swiftly. I have not been made aware of any reason to suspect that the behaviour that is the cause of such public concern in Australia is in any way a risk here in Ireland. In any event this is why we have a clear legal framework which is being implemented for any procurement process above a certain value.
31. Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh asked the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform to outline his Department's role in the oversight and supervision of capital delivery projects of line Departments; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31359/23]
I ask the Minister to outline his Department's role in the oversight and supervision of capital delivery projects in line Departments. The Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform always had a role in overseeing the delivery of the capital projects. To make that even more clear the Department was recently renamed to specifically include the delivery of the national development plan in the name of the Department.
Will the Minister outline the exact role of the Department in ensuring the delivery of those projects?
The Government has committed to €165 billion in capital investment through the national development plan, NDP, published in 2021. As a percentage of national income, annual capital investment is now among the largest in the European Union. In 2023, almost €12 billion will fund vital infrastructure in areas such as housing, transport, education, enterprise, sport and climate action and will provide good outcomes for our people.
The national investment office, NIO, in my Department oversees and reports on Government-wide infrastructure investment under the National Development Plan 2021-2030. The NIO is also responsible for maintaining the national frameworks within which Departments operate to ensure appropriate accounting for and value for money in public capital expenditure, such as the public spending code. To answer the question on what that role looks like, it involves policy areas such as updating the capital appraisal guidelines, promoting the public spending code, overseeing the external assurance process and supporting the major project advisory group in its consideration of major projects.
The responsibility for the management and delivery of individual investment programmes within the allocations agreed under the national development plan rests with the individual Department and the individual Minister in each case. The renaming of my Department to specifically include NDP delivery has brought about a greater emphasis and mandate for the delivery of the NDP. In March, I announced a number of reforms to the public spending code, which will be replaced by a set of infrastructure guidelines aimed at enhancing project delivery for the NDP. These changes aim to reduce the administrative burden for Departments delivering capital projects while allowing them greater autonomy to pursue the delivery of their priority projects.
The Minister has outlined the role in terms of oversight but I want to ask about the Department's capacity to deliver real and meaningful oversight. We have the ongoing financial horror story of the national children's hospital and the underspending in housing during a housing crisis. The most recent figures show the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage is 26% behind profile, with some €166 million unspent this year. I note spending should have been €637 million by the end of May but only €472 million was spent. Every Department with a capital budget except for one, namely, the Department of Education, has a capital underspend, including €19 million in health, €29 million in justice and €193 million in transport. The Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform is tasked with the oversight and delivery of capital projects on behalf of the State. Does the Department have engineers, surveyors or people with technical expertise to be able to oversee capital projects and seek real accountability in delivery?
It is not the role of my Department to be providing engineers or surveyors in regard to infrastructure projects.
It is not about providing them.
I thought the Deputy asked if we had that available.
I mean having that expertise.
I am answering the question, whether it be on the matter of expertise or the personnel themselves. If we had those people, I would then face questions on duplication, given such expertise exists in the National Transport Authority, NTA, and bodies that are delivering large-scale transport infrastructure projects for the State. The role of my Department is an economic one. Our role is to evaluate the business cases for projects above a certain level, for large projects, and to give sanction or to recommend to Government regarding whether sanction should be given. Our role is also to ensure adherence to the public spending code and to sanction any changes that Departments make within their budget but to ensure they stay within their budget. We have the expertise to do that work.
That is what I am trying to get at, namely, whether the expertise and the capacity is there to test technically, as much as from an accounting perspective. I do not believe it is enough to just allocate funding to the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage or to the Department of Transport and then fail to have an oversight mechanism for the State to ensure that those Departments will be able to deliver the projects on the ground. The Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform needs to support Departments to deliver these projects through centralised expertise in project delivery, not by trying to wash its hands of it or to stand back from it.
The national investment office in the Department should be equipped to be a centre of excellence for the delivery of large capital projects that would be a resource for other Departments. My question is really about the Minister and the Department's capacity as the ultimate overseer on behalf of the State to technically and expertly probe the management of the different projects without having to resort to firms like KPMG, Deloitte, PwC and other private consulting firms. That is what I am trying to get at. Is the expertise there to do that?
Yes, the expertise is there. However, I emphasise again that it is our role to provide economic expertise and economic sanction for decisions. The Department is organised by Vote teams, and the Vote teams oversee and engage with each individual Department in huge detail. The engagement we have with them is in regard to what their spending plans are in general and, when appropriate, their spending plans by sub-Vote, that is, for individual parts of Departments. While we do have engagement with regard to projects when the projects go above a certain level, it is not the role of the Department to try to second-guess the technical expertise that might be behind an individual Department. For example, my Department does not have the expertise to be able to comment on the detail of how a school should be built but we do have the ability and it is our role to ensure that we have the funding in place to deliver against the school building commitments that we have. That is what our work is and I believe we have the expertise to do it.
32. Deputy Peter Fitzpatrick asked the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform if he is planning any new measures in budget 2024 to address the recruitment and retention difficulties across key areas of the public sector; specifically healthcare, home care, the Garda, the military and firefighters; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31361/23]
I ask the Minister if he is planning any new measures in budget 2024 to address the recruitment and retention difficulties across key areas of the public sector, specifically healthcare, home care, the Garda, the military and firefighters, and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Between 2015 and 2022, the estimated number of workers within our public sector increased by almost one fourth, from 302,000 to 377,311. According to the latest data available, by the end of 2022, public service numbers had increased by 3.1% over the numbers at the end of 2021. The public service is a good employer and continues to offer competitive pay and other terms and conditions to attract and retain staff, including flexible working arrangements, pension provision and secure employment. In the case of recruitment policy for which I have policy responsibility, my Department works closely with the Public Appointments Service and other Departments to achieve the objectives set out by the Civil Service Renewal 2024 Action Plan to ensure that the State remains an employer of choice.
As the Deputy will be aware, discussions took place last year between the parties to the Building Momentum agreement that resulted in a set of proposals put forward by the Workplace Relations Commission to extend Building Momentum for a period of 12 months to the end of 2023, making it a three-year pay agreement. The extension acknowledges the higher than anticipated rates of inflation that have emerged since 2021 and the impact of cost-of-living pressures. Three additional pay adjustments totalling 6.5% were provided for under the extension. The initial Building Momentum agreement provided headline benefits of 3%. With the extension, headline benefits over the lifetime of the agreement amount to 9.5%, or just over 3% per year. Given that this agreement will conclude at the end of 2023, I expect that engagement will get under way in the coming period on the potential for a successor agreement. As is always the case, such an agreement will need to strike a balance between providing for wage adjustments and ensuring we can continue to fund them in an affordable way.
As the Minister knows, budget 2024 is just around the corner. Last year, under budget 2023, I welcomed the recruitment of 1,000 new gardaí. Can the Minister give an update on the situation?
The number of vacancies for doctors, nurses, consultants and social workers is alarming. We cannot afford to lose the professionals. What is the Minister doing to retain them and increase recruitment? Our Defence Forces are at the lowest level ever with 7,500 personnel in the Army. That is very low. What is the Minister doing to increase that? We are finding it very hard to get carers because the HSE is refusing to engage them. It will not say what it means by a living wage. It is refusing to pay them for travel time and mileage. Then there is retention among our firefighters. The amount has been €8,500 for many years and it is a long time since they got an increase. Those are some of the alarming issues. Will the Minister give an update on those five particular areas, please?
The other side of the coin is that we have never had more people in work than we have now and we have never had a bigger public service. As I said a few moments ago, our public service has grown by over one quarter. In health, we have more than 20,000 more full-time equivalents working in the health service than we had before the pandemic. The sheer growth and our successful efforts to recruit so many people into the public service does not point to a significant recruitment problem. I do accept that for many who are working in the public service, with all that is changing in the cost of living and with an economy that is doing so well with so many people at work, they do feel acute pressure with regard to their living standards and the impact of inflation on their ability to look after themselves. I acknowledge that but that is why we have a wage agreement in place that we brokered and reached at a time of some uncertainty and it is why I also hope to be in a position to reach agreement on a new wage agreement a little later in the year.
The population is growing and our older people are living longer which is fantastic but there is cause for alarm as waiting lists are starting to creep back up and we are short of professional people. Other countries are coming to Ireland to try to take them away. We have to do something to keep them here. As I said, the Defence Forces are at their lowest numbers ever. Trying to get people to care for elderly people at home is difficult. There is something wrong there and the HSE will not engage them. They are having trouble with travel times. Then there are our firefighters. The last thing anyone wants is to have a fire in their house and wonder what they are going to do. Half of them were out on strike recently and there is a reason for that. There is a lot of public support for them. The Government has done a good enough job over the past 12 years but it is important that it does not take its foot off the pedal. I am saying to the Minister, who has responsibility for public expenditure, that these are areas where we are having problems. Older people need a better health system. If they get sick they need to go to a hospital or doctor. The GP situation is very alarming. We do a fantastic job of training people in our public service professions. It is important that we keep them in the country.
I fully appreciate the importance of the points that the Deputy is making. The difficulties we have retaining staff can impact on the care we look to make available to citizens and particularly to our very youngest and oldest. However, I would still make the point that overall we have a public service that is a lot bigger than it was a few years ago. That points to the success we have in recruiting and that the public service is still seen as a really good employer, legitimately, by many who are looking to join and stay within it. In recognition of the different issues the Deputy has raised I have little doubt that they will be a big part of the discussions we will have later in the year to, I hope, be able to reach agreement on a successor to Building Momentum. I appreciate that the Deputy is raising serious matters but we have a public sector that is growing and that points to the success of our ability to recruit and not to a failure.
33. Deputy Catherine Connolly asked the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform the details of the promised independent evaluation of national development plan priorities and capacity; the timeline for the evaluation to be carried out; the details of the individual or organisation tasked with carrying out the evaluation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31299/23]
My question specifically relates to the promised independent analysis and evaluation of the national development plan priorities and capabilities. Who is carrying this out? What is the entity or organisation and what is the time span?
As the Deputy has asked me such a concise question I will endeavour to give her a concise answer. The work is being carried out by the ESRI which is in the final stages of its completion. I hope to have its paper evaluating our national development plan well in advance of budget 2024.
I thank the Minister for his precision. Will it be published and available for us all to read? Is it taking into account our obligations which are onerous under climate change legislation?
Yes, it will be published. I have not seen the report and it is being done independently but I am sure it will refer to the commitments that we have under climate legislation but given that it covers the entire national development plan and has to cover all the spending under many different Government areas, it will not be solely focused on that.
I appreciate that and I appreciate the Minister's direct responses but climate change takes us onto a new level. We have to evaluate every single project in terms of our obligations under the emergency of biodiversity and climate change that we declared back in 2019. It needs transformative action. Going back to the national development plan, I welcome the amount of money that is being put aside. I welcomed many of the projects. My concern relates to the absence of transformative actions, leading out on these projects and what needs to be changed. I do not know the terms of reference that were given to the ESRI on this or whether it is open to it to look at the review through the lens of the emergency that we have declared on climate change and biodiversity.
I am certain that the massive civilisational challenge that we face with regard to climate will feature in what the ESRI has done but it was asked to do this work by the Government earlier in the year with a view to providing an input to decisions that we will make in the NDP within this year. The Deputy made a point about the lack of transformative projects. I would contend that the work now under way in renewable energy and particularly on offshore renewable energy does have the potential to be transformative for our country. Other decisions we have made, for example on the roll-out of the national broadband plan has the ability to be transformative in the medium term and to have a very positive effect on our ability to deal with some aspects of carbon emissions by giving some workers the ability to work either at or closer to home.
