Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 20 Sep 2023

Vol. 1042 No. 3

An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Hildegarde Naughton)

I move:

Wednesday's business shall be:

- Motion re Ministerial Rota for Parliamentary Questions (without debate)

- Motion re Report of the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform entitled “Addition of two minutes for non-aligned members to fixed-time debates and private members’ business” (without debate)

- Motion re Report of the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform on Rota for Leaders' Questions (without debate)

- Motion re Twenty Eighth Report of the Standing Committee of Selection (without debate)

- Local Government (Mayor of Limerick) Bill 2023 (Second Stage) (if not previously concluded, to stand adjourned either at 6.30 p.m. or after 3 hrs and 10 mins, whichever is the later)

Wednesday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Mortgage Interest Relief, selected by Sinn Féin.

Thursday's business shall be the Second Stage of the Energy (Windfall Gains in the Energy Sector) (Cap on Market Revenues) Bill 2023 (if not previously concluded, to stand adjourned at 5.30 p.m.).

Thursday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Affordable Housing, selected by the Social Democrats.

In relation to Wednesday's business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as set out in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the extent that, notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order 34A(1)—

(i) in the event the Taoiseach is unable to attend for questions pursuant to Standing Order 46(1), Government business may be taken earlier than 3.49 p.m.;

(ii) Government business shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and stand adjourned either at 6.30 p.m. or after 3 hours and 10 minutes, whichever is the later, and shall not be resumed on Wednesday, with consequential effect on the commencement time for private members' business; and

(iii) questions pursuant to Standing Order 46(1) to a Minister other than the Taoiseach shall not be taken and topical issues shall be taken on the conclusion of private members’ business, with consequential effect on the time for the adjournment of the Dáil;

2. the Motion re Ministerial Rota for Parliamentary Questions shall be taken without debate;

3. the Motion re Report of the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform entitled “Addition of two minutes for non-aligned members to fixed-time debates and private members’ business” shall be taken without debate;

4. the Motion re Report of the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform on Rota for Leaders' Questions shall be taken without debate; and

5. the Motion re Twenty-Eight Report of the Standing Committee of Selection shall be taken without debate.

In relation to Thursday's business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as set out in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:

(i) no motion for a Committee report pursuant to Standing Order 102 or private member's Bill pursuant to Standing Order 160 shall be taken, and private members' business pursuant to Standing Order 159(1) and Standing Order 169 shall be taken for 122 minutes either on the adjournment of Second Stage of the Energy (Windfall Gains in the Energy Sector) (Cap on Market Revenues) Bill 2023 at 5.30 p.m., or on its conclusion, whichever is the earlier; and

(ii) topical issues shall be taken on the conclusion of private members' business, and the Dáil shall adjourn on the conclusion thereof; and

2. the proceedings on Second Stage of the Energy (Windfall Gains in the Energy Sector) (Cap on Market Revenues) Bill 2023 shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and stand adjourned at 5.30 p.m. and shall not be resumed on Thursday.

An Ceann Comhairle

Are the proposed arrangements for the week's business agreed to? They are not agreed.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

We have all been utterly dismayed this week about revelations concerning the safety of certain surgeries performed at Temple Street Children's Hospital. The revelations have also cast a focus on ongoing failings in the provision of surgery for children across children's hospitals in Ireland. There are long delays still in the system years after commitments were made by previous governments to address those delays. We in the Labour Party are seeking a commitment from the Government for a debate on this issue. We need to hear the response from the Government. In particular, parents who are seeking answers as to how this has come about are seeking a response.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

On behalf of my group, I must say it is a shame that neither the Taoiseach nor the Tánaiste could turn up today after the recess. It tells a lot about what they think of this House.

I want to raise a serious issue relating to the Garda, on which we want a debate in this House. Almost 99% of Garda Representative Association members - it was almost unanimous - voted no confidence in the Garda Commissioner, yet he is still stubbornly going ahead with the extra roster, supported by the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee. There will be 20% fewer gardaí in any station or at any place. It effectively means there will be areas in the countryside, and cities and towns, with no cover whatsoever. It will result in the disbanding of drug units and community policing, which is happening in Clonmel as I speak. Special units will also be disbanded to fill a paper exercise. The chief superintendent for Tipperary and Clare is now in Ennis. He filled out a box-ticking exercise stating that he has gardaí to fill this roster when he has not, and he knows he has not. The public are alarmed. The lives of gardaí are being put in danger by this Commissioner. It is reckless.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

In recent days a national scandal has been unfolding in relation to the most medically compromised children in this country. It relates to wholly adequate health services provided for them, and in the case of some of those children really serious adverse outcomes including the tragic death of one child. There is no transparency about what is going on here. All we have got is obfuscation. We have heard little or nothing from the Minister for Health. The Minister for Health needs to return to this country urgently. I ask that he presents himself here tomorrow to make statements on this scandal and to answer questions from Members of this House because we cannot get answers to questions from anywhere else.

The other thing I am asking for is the publication of the two reviews that have already been completed for several months now, which outline scores of recommendations about what needs to be done.

One of those reviews - the external review - was in fact requested by the consultant at the centre of this scandal. I ask that those two reviews be published today. We cannot have this whole issue being swept under the carpet and no transparency whatsoever about it. The Minister is accountable for this, but the Government is responsible for answering questions and making those two reviews available. Publish them now.

Deputy Mick Barry

The Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, is in New York. He does not need to take a bite out of the Big Apple at this moment in time. He needs to be back here. He needs to be in this Dáil tomorrow to make a statement and take questions about the spinal surgery scandal.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

The Minister for Health needs to be here. He needs to answer questions. We can read in the media that the families of the children who have been left waiting despite all of the promises and have been drip-fed information, as is the form with this Government, want information. The man who can provide that is the Minister for Health. He should be here. There should be nothing more pressing on his agenda.

Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Deputy Simon Coveney)

I would like to shed some light on the issues that have been raised, if I can. I know the Minister for Health is not here. I have been in contact with him. He is more than willing to make himself available early next week, at the earliest opportunity, to take questions in the Dáil. I do not think he will be able to be back by tomorrow, given the commitments he has already given in New York, but he is anxious to be back to answer questions.

I would like to answer some of those questions if I can now, in particular on the issue of the reports. First, I want to extend my sympathy to the patients and many of the families who have been impacted. I am more than aware that they are not looking for sympathy from me; rather, they are looking for answers. Some of the parents I have heard speak on media in the past 48 hours have used terms like "sickened", "disgusted", "angry" and, perhaps most importantly, "frightened" in terms of the treatment their children may have received. We have an obligation to put all of the information in the public domain as comprehensively as we can and to work with families to make sure we forge a way forward that gives them reassurance.

A comprehensive patient safety review and assurance process, overseen by the HSE and its chief clinical officer, Dr. Colm Henry, is now under way at Temple Street into elements of the paediatric orthopaedic surgery service there. The HSE has commissioned a UK expert, Mr. Nayagam, who is from a hospital in Liverpool, to lead an external review following the identification of a number of specific clinical and patient safety concerns. These concerns relate to the clinical outcomes of some complex spinal surgery, including what appears to be a higher than normal incidence of post-operative complications and infections and two serious surgical incidents.

It is important to say that we do not have all of the facts at this point in time, but we need to establish them. That is what this external review will do. The Medical Council will also be involved. There have been two key reports by CHI to date that have been referred to by Deputies - one internal report and an external report completed by Boston's Children Hospital. Neither has been published. Instead, CHI published a combined report which is its interpretation of the two existing reports. I do not believe that is good enough, and nor does the Government. The Government has insisted that CHI publish both reports in full and I hope it will do so as soon as today, but if not today certainly very shortly. I hope that will happen this evening.

In addition, the Minister for Health has asked that the external reviewer look at the wider paediatric orthopaedic service, and governance and other operational matters across the entire service. The Minister will meet the reviewer, Mr. Nayagam, shortly. He will, of course, meet patient representatives and families before we proceed further.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

What about An Garda Síochána? The Minister forgot about that.

Deputy Simon Coveney

I will be much briefer on this. The Garda Commissioner is meeting the Garda representative bodies tomorrow and I hope we will be able to make some progress on the roster issue leading from those meetings.

Deputy Thomas Pringle

While I appreciate the Minister's response regarding the disgraceful situation with the children and young people at the hospital, he had a debate instead of providing information on the Order of Business. If we did that during the Order of Business, the Ceann Comhairle would be very quick to jump on us and say we were making statements and having a debate. The response to this question should rightly be given in a debate here and the Government should agree time for such a debate as a matter of urgency because this situation is urgent. I do not appreciate it being done through the Order of Business like this. That is wrong.

An Ceann Comhairle

I cannot dictate to whoever is taking the Order of Business what they do or do not say.

Deputy Thomas Pringle

It was a five-minute speech.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

It does not allow for statements.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not within my power to direct-----

Deputy Simon Coveney

I would like to respond to that criticism. I am trying to be helpful to the House. This issue is of great concern to a lot of people. The Minister for Health is not here. My understanding is that he will be back and will make himself available on Tuesday, 26 September for questions in this House. In an attempt to provide some clarity in response to some of the questions that have been asked today, I have put on the record of the House how the Government is responding to it as of today.

Question put: "That the proposed arrangements for this week's business be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 67; Níl, 56; Staon, 0.

Tá

• Brophy, Colm.
• Browne, James.
• Bruton, Richard.
• Burke, Colm.
• Butler, Mary.
• Byrne, Thomas.
• Calleary, Dara.
• Cannon, Ciarán.
• Chambers, Jack.
• Collins, Niall.
• Costello, Patrick.
• Coveney, Simon.
• Cowen, Barry.
• Creed, Michael.
• Devlin, Cormac.
• Dillon, Alan.
• Donohoe, Paschal.
• Duffy, Francis Noel.
• Durkan, Bernard J.
• English, Damien.
• Feighan, Frankie.
• Flaherty, Joe.
• Fleming, Sean.
• Griffin, Brendan.
• Haughey, Seán.
• Heydon, Martin.
• Higgins, Emer.
• Humphreys, Heather.
• Kehoe, Paul.
• Lahart, John.
• Lawless, James.
• Leddin, Brian.
• Lowry, Michael.
• MacSharry, Marc.
• Madigan, Josepha.
• Martin, Catherine.
• Matthews, Steven.
• McAuliffe, Paul.
• McConalogue, Charlie.
• McEntee, Helen.
• McGrath, Michael.
• McGuinness, John.
• Moynihan, Michael.
• Murnane O'Connor, Jennifer.
• Naughton, Hildegarde.
• Noonan, Malcolm.
• O'Brien, Darragh.
• O'Brien, Joe.
• O'Callaghan, Jim.
• O'Connor, James.
• O'Dea, Willie.
• O'Donnell, Kieran.
• O'Dowd, Fergus.
• O'Gorman, Roderic.
• O'Sullivan, Christopher.
• O'Sullivan, Pádraig.
• Ó Cathasaigh, Marc.
• Ó Cuív, Éamon.
• Phelan, John Paul.
• Rabbitte, Anne.
• Richmond, Neale.
• Ring, Michael.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Smyth, Niamh.
• Smyth, Ossian.
• Stanton, David.
• Troy, Robert.

Níl

• Andrews, Chris.
• Bacik, Ivana.
• Barry, Mick.
• Boyd Barrett, Richard.
• Brady, John.
• Buckley, Pat.
• Cairns, Holly.
• Canney, Seán.
• Carthy, Matt.
• Clarke, Sorca.
• Collins, Joan.
• Collins, Michael.
• Connolly, Catherine.
• Conway-Walsh, Rose.
• Cronin, Réada.
• Cullinane, David.
• Daly, Pa.
• Doherty, Pearse.
• Donnelly, Paul.
• Ellis, Dessie.
• Fitzmaurice, Michael.
• Fitzpatrick, Peter.
• Funchion, Kathleen.
• Gannon, Gary.
• Gould, Thomas.
• Healy-Rae, Danny.
• Healy-Rae, Michael.
• Howlin, Brendan.
• Kenny, Martin.
• Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
• McDonald, Mary Lou.
• McGrath, Mattie.
• Mitchell, Denise.
• Munster, Imelda.
• Murphy, Catherine.
• Mythen, Johnny.
• Nash, Ged.
• O'Callaghan, Cian.
• O'Donoghue, Richard.
• O'Reilly, Louise.
• O'Rourke, Darren.
• Ó Broin, Eoin.
• Ó Laoghaire, Donnchadh.
• Ó Murchú, Ruairí.
• Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• Pringle, Thomas.
• Quinlivan, Maurice.
• Ryan, Patricia.
• Sherlock, Sean.
• Shortall, Róisín.
• Smith, Bríd.
• Smith, Duncan.
• Tóibín, Peadar.
• Tully, Pauline.
• Ward, Mark.

Staon

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hildegarde Naughton and Cormac Devlin; Níl, Deputies Mattie McGrath and Michael Healy-Rae.

Question declared carried.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

The Government increased the price of petrol and diesel on 1 September. People can see the consequences of that at the pumps. Incredibly, the Government proposes to increase fuel prices even further, with a double whammy on 11 October and 31 October. Fuel prices, as a consequence, will hit close to €2 per litre. I do not know how the Government expects hard-pressed families that are struggling anyhow to absorb this type of price hike. It is unacceptable that it would proceed with these price hikes. They should be stopped and I would like the Minister to tell the people today that they will not, in fact, go ahead.

Deputy Simon Coveney

It will not surprise the Deputy to hear that these are decisions that will be taken in the context of the budget in three weeks. The Government is more than aware of the pressure that families and households are under from an energy perspective, including fuel. We will make a decision on this in the context of the budget.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

As the Dáil resumes today, the same issue continues to dominate for so many communities across the country and that is the issue of housing.

The lack of rights for renters is particularly in focus today in an ESRI report showing significantly higher rents being paid by new tenants compared with what is paid by existing renters. We are told a renter moving into a new home can expect to pay 15% more than someone already renting a similar home. As a former Minister with responsibility for housing, how can the Minister justify the lack of Government action on protection for renters? At a minimum, today's report shows renters must be empowered and provided with information about their homes so they can know their rights. If the Government had supported the Labour Party's renters' rights Bill back in 2021 we would have a rent register in place, along with other measures to protect tenants, protect renters and give greater security. Will the Government support our Bill to introduce a rent register and will it consider making the whole country a rent pressure zone? That is clearly what is needed, as we can see from this report.

Deputy Simon Coveney

Making the whole country a rent pressure zone would not have addressed the issue raised in the report.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

It would have helped.

Deputy Simon Coveney

The report states properties that are new to the rental market are not covered by rent pressure zone restrictions versus properties that are currently in the rental market. I was the one who introduced rent pressure zones as Minister. It was the first time any Minister introduced-----

Deputy Brendan Howlin

No, Deputy Kelly did.

Deputy Simon Coveney

-----effectively rent price caps, or at least limitations in terms of inflation. We made a decision at the time, on advice, that we should not apply that cap to new properties coming on to the market because we wanted to see more new properties coming into the rental market, which we still need. This is obviously something the Government needs to keep a close eye on and it is for the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage to make recommendations in that regard.

Deputy Gary Gannon

I wish to ask about the reintroduction of the unworkable Garda rosters on 6 November. The Minister will have listened to "Morning Ireland" and read reports from RTÉ today that found a leaked confidential document from 2019 highlighted the roster "does not provide sufficient resources" to police the country and is not fit for purpose. It did not need to be leaked, nor was it confidential. The same findings were presented in the report of the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland published in 2018. The Westmanstown roster results in an immediate 20% reduction in resources per Garda unit, which the report states leads to "ineffective supervision and management of overlapping shifts which occur at inopportune times". It results in the downgrading of crime prevention in Dublin city, which we cannot have at this point.

A vote of no confidence by the Garda Representative Association was passed by 98.7% precisely on this very issue. Never has it been so obvious that the Garda is underresourced, yet it seems the Commissioner is planning to scale down operations even further. I appreciate the Minister is about to tell me the Commissioner will meet representatives of the GRA tomorrow, but a bad plan is a bad plan and there has be to space for Government intervention here. I cannot go to my constituents and say there will be a further diminishing of policing on their streets. This requires Government intervention. We cannot see the reintroduction of that roster; it is unworkable.

Deputy Simon Coveney

What I should also have said earlier was the Minister for Justice met Garda representative bodies today and the Garda Commissioner is meeting them tomorrow. This is an issue we need to resolve quickly because it is impacting on Garda morale and authority. However, it is important to say that the Westmanstown roster is the only roster that has the collective agreement of all Garda associations and operated between March 2012 and March 2020 before the outbreak of Covid-19. We are still operating the Garda roster put in place for Covid, which is not sustainable into the future. What is needed here is a negotiation that can result in an agreed new roster that gardaí can support. The machinery of the State is available for that in the form of the Workplace Relations Commission, if that is helpful, but let us wait and see where the meeting between the Commissioner and the representative bodies goes tomorrow.

Deputy Mick Barry

More than 100 families on the north side of Cork city were told yesterday they will have to wait until at least next year for early learning and crèche places to be put in place for their children at the old Before 5 family centre in Churchfield. The fault lies not with the company taking over the running of the services on the Churchfield site following the liquidation of Before 5; it lies with the Minister's Government for failing to take preschools under the control of the Department of Education. By failing to provide a State guarantee of continuity of service, the Government allows a situation where preschooling and crèches undergo periodic crises and then reopen slowly once closed. What steps does the Government intend to take to ensure the injury suffered by those parents and their children, as well as the 14 workers, are remedied as soon as possible?

Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (Deputy Roderic O'Gorman)

I thank the Deputy. I welcome the fact that this service will reopen under new management. It was concerning news for parents when the initial closure was announced, so it is really positive to see it will reopen. The fact we are able to have services reopen and indeed the fact service closures are so low at the moment is due to the additional State funding we have introduced through core funding. Originally it was €259 million and in this, the second year, it is €287 million in additional money invested in services to make them sustainable and, most importantly, to deliver on increased pay for the workers the Deputy talked about.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

A key public meeting on the issue of crime and antisocial behaviour will take place in Navan next Monday. The Minister for Justice has been invited but has not responded yet. Throughout the summer, citizens and communities have been shocked by the increase in violent, unprovoked attacks on our streets. Citizens are not just in fear at night time but often in the middle of the day in certain towns. Restaurants are closing earlier, children are being mugged on the way home from school, lanes off main streets are no-go areas because of drinking and drug taking, sexual assault and rape have doubled in the past ten years in this State and every year that Deputy Helen McEntee has been Minister for Justice the number of gardaí has fallen. Every year we have a situation where attacks on gardaí are increasing. Hundreds of gardaí are retiring and resigning annually. We have one of the lowest numbers of police per capita in the whole EU. Morale is on the floor and recruitment to Templemore has collapsed. Why is the Government soft on crime?

Deputy Simon Coveney

That is a series of questions the Deputy probably needs to raise at Question Time with the Minister for Justice. We have an unprecedented budget for An Garda Síochána at more than €2 billion per year. It is the highest financial commitment any Government has ever made to the organisation. We are looking to grow numbers and investing in Templemore. The statistics actually show violent crime is down, not up, but I accept in many communities there is a feeling antisocial behaviour is increasing and people want to see an increased Garda presence. The Minister, Deputy McEntee, is working with the Commissioner to respond to that.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I am glad the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman is here. Childcare is in crisis and childcare providers across the country have been left with no choice but to take industrial action, go on strike and close their doors next week because negotiations seem to have broken down completely with the Minister. I am glad he is here so he can answer. There is this new model of core funding, but one size does not fit all and that is quite evident but the Government has not dealt with it. Childcare providers will close their doors next week and that will put savage pressure on ordinary, working families who will be scrambling to get childcare in order that they can go to work. That will have a knock-on impact on businesses, so the Minister needs to get seriously involved and resolve this situation. It is worse in rural areas and for smaller providers. They are hit hardest by this core funding model the Government has introduced. As I said, one size does not fit all and it is quite obvious and evident here. Will the Minister do something to try to avert the closure next week of many crèches all over the country and the knock-on impact it will have on children and their parents in the workplace?

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I thank the Deputy. We held the early years forum yesterday where we had people from groups representing childcare providers, childcare professionals and many others working in the sector. It was a really positive meeting. We discussed core funding, the scale of the investment the Government has added and the changes we made in year 2. The Deputy is right that one size does not fit all.

That is why we created a dedicated payment in year 2 just for those small services, those early childhood care and education, ECCE, only services, which is what we were able to do with the extra money we got invested in year 2. We will continue to provide support to all services large and small. I call on those services that are considering a closure next week, however. I do not believe it is warranted. We have secured major investment up to this point. We want to continue that investment. I ask all groups in the sector to work with me and my Department so we can bring though those reforms and continue this investment.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Michael Ring)

We move now to the Independent Group.

Deputy Thomas Pringle

Recently, a constituent of mine wrote to me for the third time in less than a year. She stated:

This month will mark one year since I joined the waiting list for an insulin pump in Sligo University Hospital, and still there is no end in sight. In fact, I have been informed that almost no one has been taken off this list in the past year and I am essentially in the same position I was in one year ago.

She continued:

Type 1 is a horrifyingly hard diagnosis to live with and affects almost every part of ... [her] life. This diagnosis and subsequent wait on a pump has wreaked havoc on ... [her] mental health, as I am sure it has with many others. Why am I not being afforded the tech necessary to keep me healthy and ultimately be less of a burden to the healthcare system?

I have raised this matter three times in the last 11 months. I tabled more than two dozen questions with regard to different aspects of diabetes care in the north-west region and nothing has changed. Unfortunately, the Minister of Health is in New York today so I probably will not get an answer to this either. I will ask the Minister of State, however. Will the Government ensure that funding is provided for a dedicated pump nurse in the adult diabetes services in Sligo immediately?

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Mary Butler)

I have heard the Deputy raise the question previously. I will be honest with him; I am not over the detail of this but if he wants to share his constituent's concerns with me, I will make sure he gets an answer from the Minister, Deputy Donnelly's, office.

I am aware there are certain areas in the country where insulin pumps are not as available as they are in others. It is a bit of a post code lottery. I will certainly raise the issue of funding for this with the Minister. When a person is diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, it is a huge issue that he or she must live with for the rest of his or her life and the insulin pump does make life a whole lot easier.

Deputy Cathal Crowe

I want to raise the issue of Garda rostering with the Minister. Right now we have a shortage of gardaí and yet in spite of this, the Commissioner, Mr. Drew Harris, is hell bent on overhauling the national Garda roster. This overhaul would seriously dilute our Garda force and see many rural stations becoming unmanned and many specialised units being stood down so that rosters in larger towns and stations can be backfilled. Commissioner Harris's roster overhaul would see the entire removal of community policing in many Garda divisions.

In a letter to the Garda Representative Association, GRA, last November, Commissioner Harris was quoted as saying that resourcing a fifth unit is no longer operationally feasible and would result in a significant reduction in service delivery in many areas such as domestic abuse investigation, and that divisional drug units would be depleted and this would lead to a reduction in numbers in the national bureaus. These were his words. Nothing has changed since November 2022 apart from the fact that the force is now 300 personnel less. I know the answer will probably say the Minister cannot intervene in Garda operational matters. I do not believe that is the case because in July we saw the Minister positively intervene in terms of the overtime roster for the Dublin Garda division. The Minister must again step in here. The reality is that if we do not intervene and if the Government does not step up and give some guidance on what it sees fit for policing, rural policing and domestic violence units, we will see a depleted Garda force and the public will be the loser. I ask the Government please to step in with the GRA and the Commissioner and give some guidance, common sense and steerage on this.

Deputy Simon Coveney

As the Deputy knows, the Commissioner is responsible for the operational decisions for An Garda Síochána. Of course, he is committed to protecting communities and ensuring that An Garda Síochána is as impactful as it can be. As I said earlier, the Commissioner is meeting with Garda representative bodies tomorrow to try to make progress on the roster issue. The Minister met with those representative bodies today. Let us give those meetings some time and space to try to make progress. My understanding is that it certainly is not the intention that any Garda members who are formally appointed to specialist units as part of the reintroduction of an agreed roster will happen. Therefore, let us allow the Commissioner the time and space to do his job and work with the representative bodies tomorrow, which hopefully can find a way forward. As I said earlier, the industrial relations machinery of the State in the form of the Workplace Relations Commission is there to be helpful if that is useful in terms of getting agreement on a way forward.

Deputy Marc Ó Cathasaigh

Conradh na Gaeilge, endorsed by a myriad of Irish language groups, today launched its plean fáis, which is an investment plan for the future of the Irish language out to 2030. Something that might be of particular interest to the Minister is an aspect of that plan that is designed to unlock and create some 9,000 jobs in Gaeltacht areas chiefly through investment in Údarás na Gaeltachta. Has the Minister's Department had an opportunity to brief him yet on the contents of the plean fáis from an enterprise, trade and employment perspective? Is he open to the possibility of increasing that targeted funding in terms of employment creation within our Gaeltacht areas where it is so sorely needed?

Deputy Simon Coveney

I have not seen the detail of that yet but I would be very interested in it. We should be pursuing anything we can do to drive sustainable employment in Gaeltacht areas. The Deputy will certainly find an open door in my office to be helpful on that within reason, obviously.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Michael Ring)

We are moving now to the final questions. I call Deputy Ó Murchú.

Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú

I want to bring up the issue of the new operating model for gardaí. The Louth Garda division is to be added to the Cavan-Monaghan division in December. This area is not workable; it is far too big. We might look at the crime statistics in County Louth, which I think will even take in part of east Meath. In the town of Dundalk we recently had an incident in which three gardaí were injured by a stolen car ramming into them. We obviously had incidents in Drogheda. I do not think I need to explain to anyone the incidents that happened there with regard to the feud. I do not think in any way, shape or form that this is operational. I call for engagement with the Minister from the point of view of stalling, reviewing and overturning as happened when there was an attempt for County Donegal to be put with Sligo-Leitrim. This would be one of the few three-county models and it is in no way workable.

At the same time, that is happening in December. On 6 November, we are going to lose community gardaí. We are going to lose gardaí from the drug squad in order to operate the nonoperational Garda rosters. None of this is good enough. None if this is workable. We need there to be Government engagement to ensure that we provide An Garda Síochána with the resources to be able to provide a fit-for-purpose service for the people out there.

Deputy Simon Coveney

I just said in answer to another question that my understanding is that it is not the Commissioner's intention to lose gardaí from specialist units within An Garda Síochána.

Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú

We are already hearing it is.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Michael Ring)

I am sorry, Deputy.

Deputy Simon Coveney

With respect-----

Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú

I also asked about the new operational model.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Michael Ring)

I am sorry, Deputy. The Minister did not interrupt you.

Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú

I am sorry.

Deputy Simon Coveney

I am not sure where the Deputy is hearing it from but I am putting it on the record that this is my understanding as a Government spokesperson. I also do not think we should be deciding in this House on operational matters for An Garda Síochána. We do not have the expertise. We are politicians. That is a matter for the Garda Commissioner and the team around him in terms of the leadership of An Garda Síochána. There is work to do to build consensus within An Garda Síochána as a whole in terms of a rostering plan for the future. The Commissioner is meeting representative bodies tomorrow on that. The Minister met representative bodies today and discussed that issue. Let us give that process time to draw its own conclusions.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Michael Ring)

Deputy Murnane O'Connor has one minute because the time is up.

Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

I thank an Cathaoirleach Gníomhach. Yesterday I met with the young mother of a four-year-old boy with autism and leukaemia. This beautiful little boy's name is Logan. Logan has been travelling from County Carlow to the hospital in Crumlin by public transport even though he is really sick and is very open to infection. This is my issue. His mother has no transport. She cannot afford a taxi. She has been told she needs to give two weeks' notice to get the child an ambulance, which is the children's ambulance. She does not get two weeks' notice for appointments from the hospital, however. This is unacceptable. This child is very sick. I am really tormented over it. At the moment, there is a GoFundMe page set up to help the child. I wrote to the Minister, Deputy Donnelly, and to the HSE. We are talking about a four-year-old boy called Logan who is really sick.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Michael Ring)

Before the Minister answers I will let Deputy Higgins in for one minute. The Minister might answer the remaining questions and that is it.

Deputy Emer Higgins

State childcare providers throughout the country, including in my own local community, will close in response to concerns around their core funding. If childcare services are not adequately funded we will not be able to provide parents with adequate access to childcare. My area is growing, with a great deal of new building in such areas as Lucan, Clondalkin, Rathcoole, Newcastle and Citywest. In that area we do not have enough childcare places to meet demand as it is. We cannot afford to have childcare providers closing; we need more to open. This year the Government is investing €1 billion in early learning and childcare. That is welcome. I note €221 million is going into the core funding. However, we need more. Will this budget provide support both for childcare providers and for parents who access childcare?

Deputy Sorca Clarke

I have raised the issue of the school transport system and the ongoing review previously in this House. Today, I raise the issue of the emerging exceptional no-service interim grant payment, what appears to be yet another sticking plaster on what is rapidly becoming a broken school transport system. These children have applied, have been approved and have paid for a seat on a bus, only for their parents to be told that no bus exists. From the conversations I have had with parents, I know many of them are also children with special educational needs. I spoke to one grandmother in County Clare who is travelling to Dublin on a morning basis in order that her twin grandchildren, one of whom is a wheelchair user, can get to school. Another mother, whose 13-year-old daughter was on the school bus for the first few days but is now off the school bus, is using her annual leave to sit in the car park of the school and watch a half-empty bus that her poor daughter cannot get onto pull in. This simply is not good enough. How many families are in this situation?

Deputy Simon Coveney

On the school bus issue, it is important to state that in the 2022-23 school year, more than 149,000 children, including more than 18,000 children with special educational needs, were transported on a daily basis to primary and post-primary schools throughout the country. The Deputy will be aware that there are challenges for a small percentage of people, which nevertheless is a significant number because many people are involved, who are having difficulties in accessing school transport this year because of a lack of drivers. The Minister, Deputy Foley, has stated she wants to put temporary supports in place while that driver recruitment issue is resolved. That is what is happening there.

Deputy Sorca Clarke

They need those places.

Deputy Simon Coveney

In regard to childcare providers, as the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, said earlier, I would encourage childcare providers and their representative bodies to engage with his Department and-----

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

They have been trying to.

Deputy Simon Coveney

-----to reconsider whether taking action that would effectively withdraw childcare supports for three days next week should go ahead. I can state that for all three parties in government and certainly for the Minister, childcare is a big priority in the build up to this budget. Last year, there was a significant increase in funding for childcare. I suspect this budget will also prioritise childcare so I can promise the Deputy that the industry has the attention of the Government here. We want to hear what providers have to say-----

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

This issue has been raised for a year now.

Deputy Simon Coveney

-----and we want to respond to that as best we can in the budget. I do not believe that causing significant disruption to parents is helpful in those efforts, even though I can understand the frustration, having met a number of the childcare providers in my own town. On the question of the four-year-old boy, Logan, I will ask the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, to respond to that.

Deputy Mary Butler

I thank Deputy Murnane O'Connor for the question. It is really distressing. I can only imagine the situation for Logan and his parent with leukemia and autism. As both of us are from the same community healthcare organisation, CHO, I will speak to the Deputy offline to see whether we can organise something.