Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023

Vol. 1044 No. 2

Driving Test Waiting Times: Motion [Private Members]

Deputy Michael Collins

I move:

That Dáil Éireann:

acknowledges that:

— motorists in certain regions of the country are currently facing waiting times of nearly a year to sit their driving tests, as reported in the latest data from the Road Safety Authority (RSA);

— figures released at the end of August highlight significant delays in nearly every driving test centre nationwide, primarily due to a shortage of testers;

— the national average waiting time for a driving test has now reached 30.4 weeks;

— the Dún Laoghaire/Deansgrange test centre currently experiences the longest waiting time, standing at 51 weeks;

— learner drivers seeking to take their tests in Tralee, Co. Kerry, or Mulhuddart in West Dublin are subject to 45-week waiting periods, while those booking tests in Clonmel, Co. Tipperary, or Castlebar, Co. Mayo, face wait times of 28 and 21 weeks, respectively;

— the shortest wait time nationally is in Longford, with an 18-week waiting period; and

— the number of eligible learner drivers awaiting an invitation to book their driving tests has increased by 61 per cent over the past year, reaching a total of 71,554 individuals (up from 44,545 in October 2022);

recognises that:

— Government commitments made in April of this year to recruit an additional 75 driver testers have not been fulfilled;

— an objective analysis of driving test services in Ireland would conclude that the service is facing significant issues, as waiting times have now exceeded three times their official target, with an average wait of 30 weeks for a test, despite the RSA, which manages the service, having an official target - underpinned by a service level agreement - of ten weeks;

— the RSA, who have statutory responsibility for the operational aspects of the national driving test, including test applications and scheduling matters, are now consistently in breach of their own service level agreement;

— the delays in driver testing are particularly detrimental to young people who face extended waiting periods for appointments, even though they require their licenses for commuting to work and college; and

— in rural Ireland, where multiple public transport options are not readily available, the impact of driving test delays is felt more acutely, with the situation now hampering employment opportunities and college attendance for young people living in these regions; and

calls on the Government to:

— fully acknowledge its responsibility to ensure that when demand for public services increase, it is obligated to provide the necessary additional resources to meet that demand;

— instruct the Minister for Transport to take immediate action to expedite the recruitment of additional driver testers (examiners) without further delay;

— ensure the development and implementation of a strategic plan that will lead to the achievement of the RSA's official target of a maximum ten-week wait for a driving test at every testing centre in the country by the end of 2023 at the latest; and

— instruct all public bodies, including the RSA, to guarantee that all services under their jurisdiction allow individuals the option to pay for services using cash without any associated penalties.

In various regions of Ireland, aspiring motorists on their journey towards obtaining a driving licence are currently grappling with an unexpected hurdle, namely, the seemingly interminable waiting lists for a driver test. The latest data from the Road Safety Authority, RSA, have revealed an increasing number of learners are facing excruciating delays in booking their tests. This crisis is attributed to a significant shortage of testers and paints a dire picture of the national driving test landscape. It is time to shed light on this issue and underscore the urgent need for Government intervention to address these delays and provide much-needed relief to learner drivers.

The figures released at the end of August make it abundantly clear the waiting times for driving tests have grown to unprecedented lengths. The national average waiting time for a driving test stands at a staggering 30.4 weeks. Perhaps the most concerning aspect of the driving test crisis is the dramatic surge in the number of eligible learner drivers who are anxiously awaiting an invitation to book a driving test. In the past year, this number has increased by a startling 61%, reaching a staggering total of 71,554 individuals, up from 44,545 in October 2022.

The root of this crisis can be traced back to unfulfilled Government commitments. In April, promises that an additional 75 driver testers would be recruited were made. These commitments, however, have yet to materialise. An objective analysis of driving test services reveals the service is undoubtedly in turmoil. Waiting times are more than three times the official targets. Despite the official target of the RSA being underpinned by a service level agreement, SLA, of a ten-week waiting period, learners currently face an average wait of 30 weeks for a test. This chronic delay is particularly detrimental for young people who rely on their licences for daily commuting to work and college.

The impact of these driving test delays is even more pronounced in rural areas, where public transport options are limited. In these regions, the current situation significantly hampers employment opportunities and access to higher education for young people. It is not merely an inconvenience, but a significant barrier to progress. The need for immediate Government intervention is paramount. Learner drivers and their families deserve a clear acknowledgement from the Government that it has a fundamental responsibility to provide the necessary resources to meet the surging demand for public services. The Minister for Transport should be promptly directed to expedite the recruitment of additional driver testers to alleviate this crisis. Furthermore, a strategic plan must be developed and implemented to ensure the RSA's official target of a maximum ten-week wait for a driving test is achieved at every testing centre.

By the end of 2023 at the latest, public bodies, including the RSA, must be instructed to guarantee that all their services provide the option to pay with cash, without incurring associated penalties.

The driving test crisis has reached breaking point. Action is not merely advisable, it is an immediate necessity to relieve the countless learner drivers and their families who are enduring the hardship of this situation. It is time for the Government to step up, fulfil its commitments and ensure learners receive timely and efficient driving tests, thereby removing the roadblock to their aspirations and opportunities.

I know of a young man in west Cork who works for the HSE, keeping the heating and water going in public hospitals. One would think he would be classified as an emergency worker and would have his test expedited but, apparently, his situation is not deemed an emergency. I wonder whether it would be considered an emergency if the heat and water in the hospitals was closed off. Another young man phoned my office yesterday. He has been told he will be offered a job if he can produce a licence in the coming weeks. He has not even received an invitation to a test. The father of a third young man, who has been trying to get a test since August, contacted me. He was delighted his son was so enthusiastic about getting on the road. He does not drink or do drugs, and he is still awaiting an invitation for a driving test. The list goes on and on. Every day of the week, my office is inundated with calls from people begging for a driving test. All summer long, I was contacted by college students who were trying to get a driving test to allow them to get a job or, at least, to travel to and from college freely and legally.

There has been a lot of talk recent months about the high number of car accidents. There are 2.2 million vehicles in this country, far more than there were when figures started 15 or 20 years ago. The roads are in appalling condition. Last week, I received messages and phone calls from people who had heard this motion would be coming before the Dáil and who wanted me to raise issues of serious concern that are causing a significant number of road accidents in west Cork. There is a need for the Minister to consider other issues. Young people who get on the road are being blamed for many of the accidents that happen but I gravely doubt the accidents are their fault. The situation in respect of the cutting of dykes on all local roads, however, is astonishing. At least 4 ft of roadway have been lost on rural roadways due to a Government decision not to cut verges. It is happening almost everywhere in the world but it is not happening on local or regional roads in Ireland. Can the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, envisage 4 ft of roadway being lost? Can he imagine trying to drive a bus or truck under those stressful conditions? Mirrors are being broken by overgrown trees and branches along road and cost up to €1,000 to replace. The Government, however, continues to refuse to recognise that the very least entitlement people should have when they pay their car tax and insurance is to have the roadsides clear to allow them to drive safely.

When we put questions to the Minister of State recently, we were told 15 new testers would be recruited for October. He claimed it was a good news story. It would have been a good news story but when my office dug deep into the issue, we found that none of those testers are coming to west Cork. What does the Government have against west Cork? Are the people there supposed to wait seven, eight or nine months for tests? The Minister of State is nodding. Those are the facts. He cannot nod against something that is happening. He should not be in denial. For God's sake, he should have a bit of honesty and say the Government will try to put the situation right, but he should not nod in denial. I know what is happening. People are applying for a test and being told it will be May, June or July before they get one. The Minister of State can nod all he likes. I know what is happening in my area. I would like him to tell me I am wrong and show me where I am wrong.

We often talk about road accidents. Sadly, there has been a loss of life. Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, made clear to the Department of Transport that if it does not invest in roads, there will be extra deaths on the roads, and that is what has happened. The Government, however, is inclined to look at whether speed limits can be lowered. It is astonishing that no money has been spent on the N71 road from Ballydehob Cross to Innishannon. Nothing has been spent on it since the bypass of Skibbereen 20-something years ago. Last week, I referred to the road outside the Spar shop in Skibbereen. I could name different places. There are holes big enough to bury people in them. What is wrong with the country that the Government cannot spend on roads and keep people protected on them? It is astonishing that it is allowing this to go on. On the N71, there are no passing lanes or roadside workers. We have seen quite a lot of flood water in recent days. When I was growing up, that water was always cleared because there were roadside workers to clear the dykes. As those workers are no longer in place, however, the water will obviously stay on the roadside. Projects such as the Bandon northern and southern relief roads and the Bantry relief road have been promised to the people of west Cork for the past 15 or 20 years but there has been no delivery. The only delivery in my time was the relief road in Skibbereen, which was a great help. There is a massive issue.

Of course, young people who are unable to get a driving test cannot turn to the privilege of public transport. Public transport is a no-go area. As I stated last week in the House, this affects places such as Drinagh, Dunmanway, Clonakilty, Baltimore and Mizen Head. I could name the places one after another. Some of them have one public transport service a day; others have none. There is no transport service but young people are expected to find their way to college or work. They are unable to do so. This is the Minister of State's chance to wake up and deliver driving testers to centres throughout the country. He should not pick Dublin. Dublin has a public transport service that is second to none. We need to deliver to rural areas.

I have been raising this issue for the past 12 months. I was disgusted to hear that Senator Lombard from west Cork said I was scaremongering with regard to driving tests and the lack of testers in west Cork. That shows how far out of touch the Senator is. How dare he say I am scaremongering? My constituents are coming to me because they have been waiting four, five or six months for a driving test. The list is getting longer. Now is the time to act.

I ask him to stop sitting behind the wheel and doing nothing as it is time to work on this.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

Is the Minister of State going to accept or reject the motion which myself and my colleagues in the Rural Independent Group are bringing before him today on behalf of 71,500 people throughout the country? I am here to talk about the young people, for instance, in County Kerry who are coming to me in their droves at clinics and asking what are we going to do, how are they going to go to college and how will they go to work. They are trying to make a living, perhaps a part-time living, and are trying to better themselves. The one thing they need is a full driver's licence. Many of their job opportunities are being eroded and taken from them because they cannot get a driving test.

I am sorry to see the Minister of State - if I could manage to capture his attention - and his party have abandoned County Kerry. They have no interest in the world in County Kerry both nationally or locally in politics. We saw that when the Tánaiste, Deputy Martin, went to north Kerry and made promises before the last general election that he was going to support a liquefied natural gas, LNG, facility and then he turned around, the minute the election was over, and did a U-turn and abandoned north Kerry, south Kerry, east Kerry, mid-Kerry, and every part of Kerry. He does not care about it and neither does the Minister of State or his colleagues. Kerry does not exist and the Government has given up on it now at this stage.

I am looking for answers on behalf of the young people who are continuously saying that they want to be able to pass a driving test and to be called. The average waiting time at the moment is over 40 to 45 weeks in Tralee and Killarney. That is a ridiculous length of time to say to a young person that she or he must put their lives on hold for this test. I believe, and I have been saying this for many, many years, that in our school system, when one goes to secondary school that one should be taught the theory side of safety and courtesy on our roads in the first number of years, and then in transition and leaving cert year the young person should be trained and educated, that it should be part of the curriculum. The Taoiseach, thankfully, agreed yesterday when I spoke on this matter in this House that, yes, it should be on the curriculum. Young people should leave school with their leaving certificate in one hand and their full driver's licence in the other hand. That would then equip them for the world.

Deputy Eamon Ryan, the Minister for roads and transportation who does not like roads and transportation or building roads, would not want to see young people aspiring to driving a car but I live in the real world and represent real people. They tell me that, yes, they will be driving cars. Deputy Ryan may not like it and perhaps the Minister of State does not like it, seeing as the Government is so consumed with the whole green agenda and is so brainwashed, whitewashed, black washed and everything else at this moment in time-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Whitewashed.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

-----because the Green Party members are leading the Government by the nose down the road to the abyss. I remind the Minister of State again that the Government has lost rural Ireland. It had it at one time but Fine Gael has lost what it had in rural Ireland. The Greens never had it in the first instance but the Government has abandoned it because it is being taken by the nose and is being led by a couple of people in the Green Party and these people are doing absolutely nothing, as is the Government.

It promised us 75 additional testers. Incidentally, I want to thank very sincerely the licence testers in Kerry who do their level best but there is quite simply not enough hours in the day or appointments that they can make. They are saying that they want more resources and want the Government to wake up to the problem we have.

The Minister of State may remember - if he is not old enough to remember it he would have surely been told about it - that there was an amnesty at one time when it came to licences.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

There was.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

The then Government had to realise that it had to give licences to people and it did. I know that a number of weeks ago the Taoiseach answered me in the House and said that the Government was not looking at an amnesty. If the Government is not going to look at an amnesty then it will have to wake up as this is a real problem which is affecting real people. I am sincerely asking it to come along and to do something to help those people.

On road safety, I condemn in the strongest possible way the knee-jerk reaction. I say first that it is not statistics but it is real people who have died on our roads recently and on a continuous basis. I also say of the families in Kerry, many of whom I know personally, that I am so sorry for their loss in recent weeks and months in particular. The Minister of State's knee-jerk reaction of saying that he was going to bring the speed limit down from 100 km to 80 km/h, from 80 km down to 60 km/h, and from 60 km down to 40 km/h or 50 km/h is ridiculous. He is failing to recognise that there are so many other problems on our roads. The Road Safety Authority, RSA, of course, is sound asleep. It is just focused on this and can think of nothing else only penalty points, fines and penalising. It cannot think of the solutions which are - I am continuously saying this - to cut the hedges on our roads, take the water off our roads and shoot the god damn deer that are jumping up on the bonnets of motor cars every day of the week and blow them into hell.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

I am glad to get the opportunity to talk on this very important topic and motion because for all of this year, my office has been inundated with calls from young people, boys and girls, looking to do and to be called for their driving test and to get on the road for many reasons, such as going to college, secondary schools and to work. They have been and are promised driving jobs but they cannot get their test. I had an instance a number of weeks ago where a father wanted his son to drive a van in his business. He applied for the test last January and he was told it would be this coming January before he would be invited to apply for a test. One could be talking about anything from 12 to 15 months. That is not acceptable, I say to the Minister of State.

I raised this issue below at the Committee on Transport and Communications a number of weeks ago and we were told that so many new testers would be employed and that the matter would be rectified by next June. God Almighty, it is not right that we have to tell young people that they have to wait a year and a half. I was also told at that committee meeting that most of the new testers would be designated for Dublin. That is not fair. They said that more than half of the new testers who would be put working would be designated to Dublin. We have a public transport system in Dublin, and I do not begrudge Dublin, but people in rural Kerry need to get on the road. I called at that meeting for an amnesty. It happened before and the amnesty need only operate until the person gets their licence, for those that are waiting or have to wait 12 months. For people who are applying today, it could be next June or July before they will be invited for a test and maybe later. That is not acceptable.

I feel that there is an ulterior motive here by the Minister of State's senior Minister, Deputy Ryan, where he does not want to improve roads and I feel that he does not want young people to get on the road. There is a time when young people, who are full of go, want to get going, get out in the world and go to work, and they do not want to be dependent on their parents to take them here or there but want to get going themselves. Perhaps the senior Minister wants to stop them at that stage and-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Decide for them.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

-----decide that if they have a car but they cannot drive it, that they will have to get a taxi or a bus. In rural Ireland, that is not an option because if one had the money that is in the Central Bank, one could not put public transport into the nooks and corners of Kerry like the Black Valley, Gneeveguilla, The Pocket in Glenmore, Lauragh and all of those places. The money in the Central Bank would not provide such a transport service for them.

We also have a shortage of bus drivers. It takes so long to get a test and the cost is over €3,000. We asked the Government several times before to extend the limit for school bus drivers who had stopped driving at 70 years of age and we asked if they could do a medical test designated by Bus Éireann. If these people were deemed medically fit to drive, they should be allowed to drive each year at least up until they were 75 years of age because we are losing great drivers. Many bus services are not able to operate, including school bus services. Again, I say to the Minister of State that it is time for the Government to wake up and do something. Urgent action needs to be taken. Telling us that it will have things sorted out next June is a failure. There will probably be an election by then and the Government will not be accountable then because many Members of this Government, especially the Green Party Members, will be blown out of existence because that is what they deserve for the hurt they have imposed on the people of rural Ireland. The other Government Members are supporting that party just to stay in power and are aiding and abetting them to stay in power at the expense of rural people.

That is not fair and I ask the Minister of State to do something. Give them an amnesty now to let them on the road.

Minister of State at the Department of Transport (Deputy Jack Chambers)

I thank all of the Deputies for the opportunity to update the House on the national driver testing service. As they have said, it is an issue for many people in urban and rural Ireland, in particular young people who have not been able to get a test. I acknowledge that and do not dispute the concerns they have set out. There is wide agreement that it is essential that the public has access to a reliable and high-quality driver testing service. In many cases it is crucial for young people wishing to study or to work, for example. A full licence opens up opportunities which would otherwise be limited, in particular for those who, as Deputies have said, do not have access to public transport which serves the journeys they need to make. For this reason, I can confirm that the Government is not opposing the motion, which is all about ensuring the driver testing service it at an acceptable level of performance. I accept we need to strengthen that and I do not dispute the principles set out by the Deputies in the context of improving its performance.

It is a key objective of this Government to provide all citizens who qualify with a reliable and high-quality national driving test service. It is important to note from the outset that under the Road Safety Authority Act 2006, as Deputies have set out, the RSA has statutory responsibility for the national driver testing service as well as the national car testing service.

At the end of September, the average wait for a candidate to be invited to sit a driving test was 28.5 weeks. This figure is far above the service level agreement target of ten weeks. That is not an acceptable wait time for many young people. This average wait time is negatively impacting many people throughout the State. When I came into the Department a number of months ago, this was an issue I sought to address.

The increase in demand for driving tests and associated lengthening of the average wait time to invitation for learner drivers has been caused by a number of factors, including an increase in learner permits in circulation, increased capacity in the driver theory test system and an increase in the capacity of advanced driving instructors to deliver lessons to learner drivers. These factors have increased the volume of learners becoming eligible and ready to take their actual test.

To manage capacity before the pandemic, the RSA had been relying on temporary testers to keep up with demand and maintain necessary service levels. Recognising this was not a sustainable service delivery model, in 2022 the RSA undertook an assessment of the longer term demands, resulting in a sanctioned increase in the permanent driver tester headcount from 100 to 130. At the beginning of this year, anticipating further pressures, the authority was again asked to review the capacity of the driver testing service and, following a request for additional resources, sanction was given in March of this year for the recruitment of 75 additional driver testers, bringing the total number of sanctioned driver tester posts to over 200. We had around 100 in the summer of 2022. Once these testers are deployed, the figure will reach around 200. That demonstrates the focus by the Government and the RSA on trying to address this issue, which we know affects many people. This recruitment is under way. The first tranche of recruits was deployed in September.

It is important to say that the additional capacity facilitated a small decline in average wait times between the end of August and September. The RSA is currently providing an average of over 4,000 tests per week, up from 3,186 in October 2022 and a year-on-year increase of over 25%. The number of applications made for a driving test in 2023 is 5,024 per week, on average, and has increased from 3,254 applications per week in 2018.

While it is evident from these figures that the number of candidates for testing has increased substantially, the growth in the backlog has now started to slow. This is due to a number of operational factors, not least of which is the commencement of live testing by the first tranche of new testers in the field. As of 6 October, 29 additional testers had joined the RSA with a further 13 lined up for November. This is a net increase of 42 driver testing personnel.

As previously mentioned, the service level agreement waiting time for invitation to test is ten weeks and it is expected that as we deploy the additional testers we are recruiting, we will be back to that service level agreement by mid-2024. It is clear that the deployment of the new driver testers will have a positive impact on the service. We expect to see a reduction in waiting times through to the end of 2023 and, as I have said, out to next year.

Sanction has been provided for 75 testers, which is greater than the capacity required. The recruitment of suitable candidates for all of these posts will allow us to address the backlog, ensure there is a level of redundancy in staffing levels within the testing system and address broader issues in driver testing, along with the issue of learner permits and wider issues we need to address from a road safety perspective.

The recruitment campaign has included the robust training of testers to ensure that a quality service is provided to customers and, at the end of the process, candidates who pass their test are capable and competent on our roads. We need to have the best quality testers, trainers and drivers to ensure that our drivers are safe but, equally, I think we have created a situation where a driving test is seen as make or break for many young people. That is not in the interests of young people who need a car for college or work.

l am sure all Deputies present are as concerned as I am about the rising trend in road fatalities on our roads. As of yesterday morning, 152 people had died on our roads this year, an increase of 35, or 30%, on the previous year. The national driver testing service must be best in class, so that we can trust that those who pass their test are driving responsibly on our roads. Consequently, recruiting the right testers is critical and an integral enabler of the Government’s road safety strategy which targets a reduction in the number of deaths and serious injuries on Irish roads by 50% this decade.

Another part of the motion relates to the payment processes for the national car testing service. While we encourage the use of technology, we acknowledge that those who do not have access to electronic or card payment systems still need to be able to pay for services. The RSA appeared before the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications on 20 September to discuss these matters, among others, and shares the Department”s commitment that the ability to pay for services in cash and electronically remains available to all citizens.

The Deputies may also be aware that the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael McGrath, has written to all Departments to advise that public bodies under their aegis should continue to accept cash payments while his Department prepares new access to cash legislation and a new national payments strategy. Any change to payment methods by contractors of services such as the NCT must be agreed with the RSA, which has statutory responsibility for the provision of national car testing services. I assure Deputies that no changes to payment methods have been agreed or implemented. The RSA is clear on the need for a wide range of options for citizens.

As I have said, the spirit of what Deputies have set out in the context of giving opportunities for young people and ensuring they can get a test is an objective we share. That is why we have increased the number of sanctioned testers from 100 to 130. An additional 75 testers are being recruited. We want to reduce waiting times to an acceptable level. We also want to address the wider road safety issues in our country. Deputies may oppose some of the measures I am introducing in the context of the road safety measures Bill but that is a discussion for another day.

We want to improve the public service provision for driver testing. That is why we are enhancing recruitment. We are also commencing a review of the national driver testing curriculum, which has not been reviewed for over 30 years. We need to make sure the curriculum is fit for purpose in the context of our road safety. The RSA has been provided with the necessary resources, through the Department of Transport's sanction of additional driver testing posts, to achieve the accepted service level of a wait time of ten weeks across the State through a progressive reduction in waiting times between now and mid-2024.

Deputy Collins raised the issue of the deployment of testers. We have been very clear with the RSA that there needs to be priority deployment at testing centres that have the highest wait times. That is something we will continue to reflect. We have been absolutely clear that those centres with the longest wait times get the initial deployment of additional testers. I appreciate Deputies raising this issue. We want to drive progress in the context of the current wait times faced by many young people.

What young people have faced, the length of time they have been waiting, is unacceptable to me. My role as Minister of State has been to ensure we resource the issue, recruit additional testers and bring the wait time down. That is what I am seeking to do. I know this has been an issue for many Deputies, their constituents and citizens more broadly who have not been able to get a test. I thank the Rural Independent Group for proposing the motion.

Deputy Carol Nolan

The waiting time for driving tests is totally unacceptable, as the Minister of State acknowledged. He also acknowledged that the RSA was brought before the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport and Communications in September and stated there is now an expectation to see improvement. I ask that it be brought back in if there are no improvements in the next couple of months. There is a service level agreement. We are not getting a service that is fit for purpose. I have many constituents, particularly young people, who want to work, have to get to work or cannot take up apprenticeships because they have not yet passed the driving test and do not have a date for a test. It is totally unacceptable. It is still bedlam. Despite the small improvements, it is not good enough and does not cut it. The RSA is way behind where it should be. It is being paid tens of millions of euro and we are not getting a service that is fit for purpose. I ask that the RSA be monitored and brought back before the transport committee in to show us what improvements have been made. The new year is a reasonable timeframe for doing so.

There is also a clear value-for-money issue, with this statutory State agency not being able to fulfil some of the most basic requirements regarding its operation. The waiting times for drivers are obviously part of this. This issue disproportionately impacts rural learner drivers because we do not have the luxury of public transport services outside our doors. Public transport is non-existent in many areas. Cars, and access to cars, are not just a necessity for most people but a key factor in maintaining economic, educational and social well-being. It is entirely unacceptable that, as our motion states, the number of eligible learner drivers awaiting an invitation to book their driving tests has increased by 61% over the past year, reaching a total of 71,554 individuals. That is up from 44,545 in October 2022.

I also want to address one of the other issues that we have identified, namely, the need to maintain a service that can be accessed with cash. Just yesterday, a constituent contacted me to say that the National Driver Licence Service, NDLS, is not accepting cash as a form of payment. My constituent made the valid point that although the NDLS lists alternative forms of payment, only one of these is accessible using cash, and this is what she termed a bogus method. This issue needs to be investigated by the Oireachtas committee.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Hear, hear.

Deputy Carol Nolan

As I understand, the NDLS claims that Payzone vouchers can be used but the Payzone website does not list one site from which vouchers can be purchased. That is misleading the public and it is unacceptable for a State service or agency to do that when it is being funded by the taxpayer. I know from my constituent's account that she tried three different Payzone centres in Tullamore yesterday in case the website was not giving the correct information. I ask the Minister of State to follow up and investigate what is going on there. NCT centres were recently directed to continue offering a cash service but the same must now happen with the NDLS. We need to check what is happening regarding Payzone and what it is saying on the website. I ask for that to be done immediately.

Deputy Richard O'Donoghue

Many people in my constituency in Limerick are waiting up to nine months for a driving test. I listened to the Minister of State read out his piece of paperwork. He said that under the Road Safety Authority Act 2006 "the RSA has statutory responsibility for the national driver testing service as well as the national car testing service". Does he agree that the RSA and the Government have a legal obligation and responsibility to provide for the safe passage of people, whether they are pedestrians, cyclists, motorists or bus users?

I hear daily of accidents happening in Limerick and around the country due to poor hedge cutting on roadsides. If a local authority or the Government wants to put up signage, the statutory requirement is that they put up a sign 1 m from the edge of the road, so it can be seen. We now have an issue all around the country as a result of the Government introducing rules. I am all for biodiversity and the environment but I am also for the safety of the men, women and children who use the roads as they are supposed to be used. However, if it is not allowed to cut a hedge or grass margin for X number of months in the year, it results in roads being closed in. What is the knock-on effect? It means Bus Éireann will not use bigger buses on roads to collect children. It is now using a delicensed bus which can only carry up to 16 people. The bus can no longer fit on the road because the Government will not allow hedges or grass verges to be cut on the road edge. I believe that is a breach of the law.

Last week, I mentioned the law reform Bill. I believe the Government is guilty of putting people's lives at risk. Roadside hedges cannot be cut back 1 m, whereas it can be for Government signage, as the regulations state. Hedgerows can be cut straight up but not 2 m up because that impacts on the mirrors of buses and trucks and puts them into the middle of the road. The Government is guilty of putting lives at risk by not allowing all roadside hedges to be cut for safe passage of pedestrians, cyclists and bus and truck transport. I am looking for a commitment from the Minister of State that he will talk to the Green Party Minister for Transport, Deputy Eamon Ryan, who I believe does not hold any licences bar a car licence, and who goes around the country saying there is bus transport.

To give just one story, a woman in Croom told me she drives her son to the bus stop in Croom every morning to get a bus. The bus, which could be delayed by ten or 15 minutes because of the road structures and things in the way, takes him to the train station in Limerick where he is supposed to get a connecting bus to the University of Limerick. If the bus is delayed by five minutes, the connecting bus is gone and he has to wait 15 minutes for the next bus to get to college. This means he gets to college 15 or 20 minutes late for lectures. The lecturers are now telling this woman's son they will dock him college points for being late due to poor infrastructure in the Government's transport network.

People are unable to take up jobs. This is a legal matter - equal job opportunity - that the Government should be held accountable for. If you live in a place where you need a driving licence and the Government prevents you from getting a licence by not having the proper infrastructure in place, the Government is guilty of stopping equal job opportunity.

The 75 testers the Minister of State said will be coming on board are not enough. The people of Limerick and around the country are suffering because of the Government.

They cannot get jobs, they cannot get to college and they cannot get to medical appointments, even if they depend on them, because of the delay in the licensing service. Not only that, the Government is putting every man, woman and child in this country at risk because it will not allow the road verges to be cut, even though its own legal authorities tell it that if signposts are put up, the letter of the law must be followed. The Government is forcing all vehicles to drive in a certain way on the road. The Government should be held to account legally and brought to court for not protecting the people, which it is mandated to do.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Verona Murphy)

Out of courtesy to all colleagues, I ask that phones be put on silent, if not switched off. One Deputy in particular knows what I am talking about.

Deputy Martin Kenny

We will be supporting this motion. I thank the Rural Independent Group for tabling it. Driver testing delays are affecting people all over the country. I am sure every Deputy from every constituency, rural and urban, has been contacted by people about huge delays and the huge difficulties faced by family members in getting tests.

We had the representatives of the RSA and various agencies before the transport committee regarding this matter, and they gave us all sorts of assurances that work was being done to recruit more testers and deal with the backlog. The reality is that the backlog still exists. People from various parts of the country are being told they will have to wait up to six months, and sometimes even longer, to get a driving test. The Minister of State has to accept that this is totally inappropriate and must not continue.

As we know, more and more young people are seeking to pass the driver test. As a father of four between the ages of 24 and 19, I know how important it is for them to get a driving test. Particularly for people who live in rural areas, there are no public transport options, as has been laid out by others. The public transport simply does not exist. I have two children going to college in Limerick. If they want to take public transport there, they have to get a train to Dublin and then to Limerick. The western rail corridor would be very useful in addressing this. I must raise this in respect of the Minister of State's responsibilities. If my children want to get a bus, they have to go all the way to Athlone to get it. There are major connectivity issues in many parts of rural Ireland. Learning to drive and being able to drive do wonders for the confidence of young people and really set them apart. Driving is vital if they are to advance in life.

The reality is that there are more and more young people looking for driver tests. There are many people who, on returning to the country after having left for various reasons, discover their old licence is no longer valid. They have to look for a new licence and go through the whole system again. There are many people coming here from other countries to work, live and be part of our community and they too have to apply to get driving licences. Therefore, there will be an increasing amount of pressure on the system. While we need to see more driver testers recruited, we possibly need to see more test centres opened. The Minister of State needs to consider that.

On the broader issues raised regarding road safety, I accept that we have a huge problem. Last weekend, five people died tragically on our roads. The previous weekend, five people died on our roads. This is a huge and increasing problem, with tragedy facing so many people's lives in the form of death and critical injuries. While the Government has a responsibility, every road user must take personal responsibility. We are aware of that but the critical part of the Government's responsibility is to make sure the roads people are using are roadworthy. I was very disappointed when I looked at the budget last week and the Estimates. I believe it is in programme C that we see road safety measures funding decreased by €150 million, or 10%. It is clearly there. We need to accept that while the Government says it is going to invest in roads and road safety, it has decreased the amount for road safety in the budget.

Deputy Jack Chambers

There is a new subhead.

Deputy Martin Kenny

New subheads do not cut it. The tragic reality is that people are dying on our roads and the Government is not doing enough to make roads safe and keep them safe for people.

We recognise that the measures the Government talks about regarding road safety, such as decreasing speed limits, may be appropriate in some cases. However, there is too much emphasis on decreasing the speed limits. We need to be considering everything else as well. That needs to be brought to bear. I heard the Minister of State's possible recommendation that we consider increased penalty points at certain times, including weekends. The reality is that if a person is breaking the law at any time, they are breaking the law. It should be recognised that if a person dies tragically as a result of the driving of someone who is intoxicated, the law should be applied. Therefore, the Minister of State's suggestion is a bit of kite-flying, and I do not believe it is an appropriate measure to be talking about. An effort should be made to introduce proper measures that will actually deal with road safety and to put the infrastructure in place to ensure all the bad bends and concealed junctions are dealt with. Up and down the country, local authorities are looking for money to remedy these problems and the Government is very slow to enable the local authorities to do that kind of work.

To return specifically to the motion, the driver testing facility that is in place is not providing a service that is adequate or appropriate considering the number of people who need it. The Government has to come up to the mark and ensure it can provide the service for everyone. There are people waiting for far too long in all areas of the country. Some are waiting up to a year. Saying new staff are being added and that things are progressing is not sufficient, as they are not progressing anything like they need to. We need haste in addressing the issue with the testing of cars.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

I find it a little curious that a person who can figure out how to drive a car cannot figure out how to operate the volume button on their phone when playing Snake or whatever it is they are doing.

To the matter at hand, the situation with driving test waiting times has become unacceptable. Indeed, it is beyond unacceptable. The backlog is causing people not to be able to take up new jobs and it is impacting students driving to college or to apprenticeships. It is costing young people their apprenticeships and it is hurting workers and families. The average waiting time for a driving test is 30 weeks across the State. If a driver in my constituency, Dublin Fingal, were to book a test, he or she would be left waiting until April to be called for Finglas and until March to be called for Dundalk. A six- or seven-month wait to sit a driving test for a driver who has already spent a significant amount of time undertaking all the necessary lessons is really unacceptable. There are young people and workers in north County Dublin who have had to wait over a year. Every aspect of driving is now impacted by the delays. There are waiting lists for theory tests, driving tests and the national car test. It is a mockery at this stage. These delays are having an impact on the economy, especially the haulage and transport sector. Businesses contact me weekly regarding the delays facing fully qualified heavy goods vehicle, HGV, drivers from outside the State, especially South African ones, who are experiencing difficulties in obtaining an appointment with the National Driver Licence Service to get HGV driving licence. The process is that these drivers need to get personal public service, PPS, numbers, complete certificate of professional competence courses, exchange their existing licences for EU licences and then get digital tachograph cards to be able to drive a truck. They are waiting three months to get the licence from the NDLS. They need their licence to get the tachograph card. Without these, they simply cannot work. Drivers who arrive here with approval to work and who are very much needed to do the work are going home because they are left waiting so long for the relevant driving licence. I am asking the Minister of State for his help in this matter, first in respect of the RSA and second through more protection for employers in these circumstances. I urge the Minister of State to look into this specific issue and do all he can to speed up the process. It is seriously impacting transport and the haulage sector. I spoke to a haulier recently who has had two drivers who went back to South Africa.

Deputy Mairéad Farrell

The delay we are seeing at our driving test centres is as much tied up with the housing crisis as other things. Unfortunately, Galway is an excellent example of this. I have pointed out countless times in this Chamber that there are no affordable rental properties for those accessing the housing assistance payment in Galway, which means that people whose lives are based in the city are forced to move farther out in the county to find a place to live. In many cases, this means they need access to a car. I know of people who have been waiting over six months for a driving test in Galway. One woman I was dealing with, on having received a notice of termination from her landlord, spent months looking for somewhere to rent in a location with public transport links. She was doing driving lessons at the same time and when it came to booking her test, she was told it would be in 28 weeks. Now she is homeless and living in a room with her son in her parents' house. Another woman who is waiting on a driving test in Galway needs her licence so she can bring a family member to the hospital in Galway to attend cancer treatment, which can be physically and emotionally gruelling. The driving test date has been pushed back twice so far, meaning the woman has been waiting 30 weeks to take the test.

It is clear we need to make sure the Government gets driving test waiting times under control.

Tá an cheist chéanna ann faoin tuath agus i gConamara. Is minic a mbíonn daoine ag braith ar a gcarr mar gheall nach bhfuil busanna sách minic ann nó pé rud é, agus ní bhíonn siad in ann dul isteach sa chathair chun obair a dhéanamh nó fiú dul ar an gcoláiste nó rudaí cosúil le sin. Fáiltím roimh an nuacht is deireanaí a chuala muid ar maidin ó Citylink go mbeidh níos mó busanna ar fáil ón gClochán go Gaillimh. Is rud maith é sin. Tá na busanna sin ag teastáil go géar mar tá sé soiléir ón méid daoine a bhíonn i dteagmháil liomsa ag rá liom nach bhfuil siad in ann taisteal. Níl carr acu nó pé rud é. Bíonn siad ag braith ar bus agus ní bhíonn siad in ann taisteal chuig an gcathair in am. Ansin tá na daoine atá ag iarraidh bheith in ann tiomáint chuig an gcathair ag fanacht ar liostaí feithimh agus níl siad in ann an scrúdú tiomána a dhéanamh. Is léir go gcaithfimid dul i ngleic leis an gceist seo freisin. Tá baint aige leis an ngéarchéim tithíochta chomh maith.

Deputy Martin Browne

I thank the Rural Independent Group for tabling the motion today. Like many other Deputies, I have been contacted by many people who say the situation facing people awaiting driving tests has gone so far that it is now holding them back from planning their lives. I will focus on the impact it is having on people in rural Ireland, who do not have the luxury of regular bus or train services to rely on while they wait as long as six months for an appointment for a driving test. One young man who contacted me recently has been told the waiting time for his test is 25 weeks, which is more than six months. That is typical in Tipperary where, according to my checks today, 25 March 2024 is the next available testing date. He needs to drive so he can accept a job he has been offered on the basis he has a full licence, but this is being denied to him by the outrageous length of time he and so many others have to wait. His situation is, unfortunately, not unique and this is the reason this matter is being highlighted today.

We hear a lot from Government benches about rural development and the importance of keeping rural Ireland populated and thriving, but in rural Ireland most of us have to rely on private transport because public transport is hit and miss. Unlike for many in urban areas, our choices are limited. We are at a disadvantage, especially our young people like this young man who are trying to get their working lives under way. Poor workforce planning by the Government and the Road Safety Authority, RSA, is obstructing many young people. Allowing the driving test backlog to reach an extent where more than 71,000 learner drivers are waiting to receive an invitation to book a test is a clear example of this.

While the pandemic was always going to create a backlog, that backlog has been cleared. We are now facing a workforce shortage due to retirements and the need for specialised testers. This situation was predictable and should have been dealt with in good time, especially as the RSA has a target of a ten week wait by the end of the year. If it is committed to that target, it clearly did not act to prove so or to reach the target. That timeframe is not achievable anywhere in my county of Tipperary. The earliest people can get a driving test right now is 29 January 2024. That is simply unacceptable.

These backlogs also contribute to a lack of school buses in various areas. I am sick of Ministers distancing themselves in this House from responsibility for matters that are clearly in their remit. The Minister has a responsibility to expedite the recruitment of additional examiners, while the RSA has a responsibility to effectively operate its patch. If it makes a commitment, it needs to stand over it.

Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh

I thank the Rural Independent Group for bringing forward this important motion.

Imagine being a young person growing up in one of the wealthiest countries in the world and being unable to afford to get a place to live or unable to get a driving licence. Is this really how we are treating young people? Is it any wonder they are emigrating in their droves? I completely acknowledge that the Minister of State was handed a ball of chaos, but we have had 13 years of Fine Gael in government. Putting Covid-19 aside and all the excuses out of the way, this is what has been created for young people. Some 71,000 people are waiting. As Deputy Kenny said, we are trying to encourage people to return to this country and we are driving them away.

The consequences of delays in driving tests are severe, especially in rural Ireland. The impacts on employment, access to education and access to healthcare have already been discussed this morning. It is stopping people getting on with their lives. The estimated week of invitation from the RSA in Castlebar is the week commencing 8 January 2024, but that is just an estimate. The response John got was that he would receive an invitation to book his test in the week commencing 25 March 2024. In Ballina, people will not be invited until 26 February 2024. Mixed messages are coming from everywhere. It is months before people can expect an invitation and they are also being told they need to quell their expectations. The RSA says the estimated waiting times can increase for various reasons outside its control, including tester availability. It says it is in the process of recruiting new driver testers and is committed to engaging with the Department of Transport. If it has to put in writing that it is committed to engaging with the Department, it says a lot. Why have we not recruited these driver testers before? It is crazy and it is typical of the Government to wait until we get into a cul-de-sac where people are forced into these situations. The figure of 71,000 people is a shame on the Government, on Fianna Fáil and on Fine Gael, which has been in government for 13 years.

Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú

It is not the first time we have spoken here about how long it takes to get a test. Many promises were made and previously, excuses around Covid-19 and particular issues were made, but we need to get down to a level where we can provide people with the possibility of getting a driving licence faster than six months. It needs to be addressed as soon as possible. Some of my colleagues raised other issues. I thank the Rural Independent Group. I have no doubt that everyone has brought up the issue of students who require a licence. It is more important than it was a number of years ago because they cannot get accommodation where they are studying. It will impact on people's ability to get jobs and so on and that is before we talk about the HGV drivers who are required. We have all talked about streamlining these services. We need to look at that and at the likes of the Drive Virtual Driving Academy Paul Brady operates in Dundalk. In France, simulated lessons are sometimes seen as lessons and can be built into a curriculum. Simulators and other technology are used and can be used by companies from a safety point of view.

I cannot let this moment pass without talking about the fact that we have had an horrific time on our roads. We lost ten people tragically, two of whom were lost close to where I live. Chris Bradley from Desertmartin, County Derry, who was a drummer with Declan Nerney, died in a collision on the M1 on Saturday, 14 October and Wayne Lynch who was from Drumcashel and was involved with Stabannon Parnells Gaelic football club died in the early hours of 8 October as a pedestrian. These accidents are caused by various things but action needs to be taken. I have received calls in my office about lighting issues on the M1, which I will come back to. People have been told lights have been put down in certain places, due to the carbon footprint of the company, but it does not work. We need to look at lighting for tractors as haulage companies have contacted me about that.

Deputy Pauline Tully

I thank the Rural Independent Group for tabling this important motion.

It is a huge issue in Cavan, as it is elsewhere. I am contacted weekly by people who inquire about driving tests and wonder whether their applications could be fast-tracked. Many of them are young and about to take up an apprenticeship or new job or college place and require a driving licence to get to their places of employment or study. As there is a lack of accommodation, many cannot live near their place of study and public transport in Cavan is not reliable. It does not go everywhere they need to go. Some people are considering turning down apprenticeships or jobs because they cannot get to the place and it is not viable for a qualified driver to travel with them at all times. The waiting time seems to be about 30 weeks and that is not acceptable.

I came across one young man who applied on 14 March. He waited 30 weeks. An email was sent to the family email at the beginning of October. He missed the email because it had taken so long and he was not checking his emails on a regular basis. Why can a text message not be sent to tell people to check their emails for a response from the RSA? He is not the first person who has missed the email after waiting almost half a year for an invitation to book a test.

Essentially, this is down to the failure of workforce planning. We knew there would be a backlog after Covid, yet an additional 30 testers were announced in July 2022. They were not deployed until March 2023. Another 75 were announced in April 2023 and they will not be deployed until the end of this year. What is the hold-up in this? This is causing a huge problem. As we know, there is a backlog already, but there is also a 28% increase in the numbers of those applying for the test. Why are testers not being put in place much sooner, rather than waiting up to nine months before they are deployed? There is also an issue with the cancellation of tests in my area at short notice, sometimes within 24 hours, and there seems to be no official channel for reimbursement of expenses for driving test candidates or driver instructors who commit their time and vehicles to pupils for hire for the driving test when it is cancelled at short notice. That is something else that needs to be addressed.

Deputy Duncan Smith

I thank the Rural Independent Group for bringing this motion to the Chamber. It is something we have spoken about on many occasions in the Committee on Transport and Communications but to have a two-hour debate on it in the Dáil is most welcome. We are in the midst of a huge problem in road safety and many other issues in our roads. Chief among that is the wait list for driving tests. As of May of this year, up to 60,000 learner drivers were facing wait times of up to ten months to do their driving test. In places like Dún Laoghaire there are wait times of 46 weeks, in Finglas there are wait times of seven months, in Killarney there are wait times of six months and in Mallow there are wait times of 24 weeks, which is half a year. For the people who are contacting my office and other offices of Deputies and public representatives, the common issue among most of them is that they need their driving test and licence to be able to get a job.

I know the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, previously announced that 75 more testers will be brought on stream this October. We have not reached that target but the rate of increase in applications of 36% from 2021 to 2022 would mean that even if we had the maximum number of testers, as announced by the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, it would not have met the demand. The Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, also said in April of this year that by the end of quarter 1 2024, the waiting time for applicants to sit a test would be down to the RSA target of ten weeks. However, we heard the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, in his response to the motion this morning saying that this has been pushed out to mid-2024. That is a disconcertingly vague timeline for such an important achievement, which would be to get it back down to ten weeks. Responsibility needs to be taken as to why we are so far away from reaching this much-needed target. Can the Minister of State explain why we have seen the closure of the temporary test centres that were utilised during the pandemic? We all acknowledge that the pandemic was a problem and that it massively impacted driving test waiting lists. However, we are well beyond the pandemic now and we have had driving tests up and running for almost two years, yet the problem is not getting any better.

Does the Minister of State agree with the logic given by an RSA spokesperson in April that the closure of St. Finbarr’s test centre in Cork was due to it being no longer needed? Would the Minister of State agree that this was wrong, that it was needed and that it should have been kept open? Cork is an area facing 24-week wait times in Cork, which is well over the acceptable point for driving test wait times. The lack of delivery from the Government to address these delays is another example of it letting down the younger generations in particular. I mention people who are getting apprenticeships and being offered jobs but being unable to take them. Many people who I grew up with and people younger than me in Dublin, if they have been able to source or buy housing, they have had to do so outside of Dublin in the surrounding counties, where public transport is not as good and where they need to be able to drive to visit relatives and access work, and again they are being let down.

These delays once again highlight the need for a robust transport system and they highlight the fact that we do not have a robust transport system countrywide. For a lot of people in my constituency, which is in Dublin and close to Dublin, they are relying on a bus service. We have no rail service or high capacity service such as MetroLink. There is a need to drive to work, therefore. Many people in north County Dublin work along the M50, in one of the industrial centres off it, and there is no direct bus route to that; they need to get in their cars. We are not protecting workers or ordinary families, therefore, by failing to deliver on public transport. We are forcing people to use cars and when they try to access a car and are able to meet the cost of affording a car, they are unable to get a driving test in an acceptable period.

For people outside of Dublin the situation is compounded and is much worse. A study last year from Social Justice Ireland showed that the massive deficit in public transport in rural Ireland forces people to use their cars at an even higher rate. I want to acknowledge something that Deputy Michael Healy-Rae mentioned yesterday on Leader's Questions. He said it would be ideal if students left school with their leaving certificates in one hand their driving licences in another. That is a good aspiration that we should have. It feels as though we are light years away from that but being able to drive safely and having that as part of your school curriculum in your late teens would be a wonderful advancement and something to aim for in this country. If we can ensure that people are driving early, learning how to drive safely early or getting their tests early, it will help set them up if they are going straight into the workforce or if they are going through college outside of their home towns. That is something we will need to look at but we are, as I said, light years away from that because we have these wait times and we are in the midst of this crisis. The long wait times need to be tackled with a multipronged approach. More testers are welcome but there needs to be more effort made to hire more and bring them on stream quicker.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

I also welcome the opportunity to speak on this motion, which was put forward by the Rural Independent Group. Like most other Deputies, we get emails and calls from people on this issue on a regular basis and it is a huge source of frustration. People want to regularise themselves when it comes to driving on the public roads. Some people want to drive to work and more and more want to drive to college, and the housing disaster is part of that. People also want to drive to things like leisure, sports and so on where no other option is open to them, so it is essential that they are fully compliant by being deemed competent to hold a full licence. That has to be made possible for these people.

I read through the motion and I noted that Longford has the shortest waiting time for a driving test at 18 weeks. That is over four months. I checked the Naas test centre, which I do reasonably regularly, and the estimated best-case scenario that you can expect to wait for an invitation to book a category B driving test at present, and this is assuming you join the waiting list today and are eligible to sit the test, is 23 June 2024. Following that, when you select from the appointment slots over the following three to five weeks, it could be the August bank holiday weekend before a test is secured next year. That is just not on. This issue, like others such as the NCT waiting times for example, is not new or a surprise. It demonstrates a complete lack of urgency and shows no regard for workforce planning and resourcing public services. At this stage we have almost created an industry of crisis management. We create the crisis and then work back from it, rather than prevent it from occurring in the first place.

The current increase in demand for driving tests and the time to invitation to book a test appointment for learner drivers has, as I understand it, a number of contributing factors, which include an increase in learner permits in circulation, which has grown by about 30% since quarter 3 of 2019. So there really is no excuse for this situation; it was well flagged.

The date was there. This issue should have been seen coming a mile away and planned for. I have repeatedly asked the Minister what will be done about it. I know from responses to parliamentary questions and from making direct representations to the RSA that the service has been under significant pressure to meet unprecedented demand, which is up by 28% on 2021 figures and 27% on 2018 figures, which was before the Covid-19 pandemic. We are a long way past using Covid-19 as an excuse at this stage.

I asked about plans to reduce the number of people on a third or subsequent consecutive learner permit. The Department and the RSA are considering a range of measures to ensure that learner permit holders sit a driving test before they can obtain a subsequent permit. That option has to be available to them. What was considered? The permit system is bursting at the seams. I ask the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, to respond to that point in her reply.

Earlier this year when I asked about the plans to meet demand, I was told that the RSA had reviewed the capacity of the driver testing service to meet demand and following a request for additional resources in March 2023, the Department gave approval for the recruitment of up to 75 additional driver testers. How many testers have been recruited to date? How many are now fully trained? Where are they being assigned? We also need clarity as to whether the additional testers will be assigned to fill current vacancies or will boost the existing staffing complement. It would be useful if the Minister of State could indicate how many testers have left or resigned their positions. We have to consider that point if we are looking at the totality of the service.

I was also told at the time that the backlog for driver testing services would start to reduce from October 2023 and agreed service levels should resume by early to mid-2024. According to the response of the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, earlier, there is no evidence of that. There has even been talk of that target being pushed back again.

To really emphasise that there are real-life consequences for not being able to obtain a driving test for a full driver's licence, I have come across cases where employers have issued letters of intent to hire a person but such persons cannot take up their employment because they cannot access a driving test in a timely manner. One case with which my office tried to assist involved a person on jobseeker's benefit who was struggling to get a job without a full driver's licence. The person had been offered two positions at that point with a condition that he or she had a full driver's licence but, ultimately, had to decline the positions. This is unacceptable. That is a missed and potentially life-changing opportunity for the person in question.

What is the number of no-shows for driver testing this year? I understand that a process change introduced in 2020 brought the number of no-shows down from in excess of 24,000 to 4,100 in 2022. That is to be welcomed. We must be imaginative about what can be done. In 2019, there were no-shows in 11% of cases. The relevant figure for 2020 was 9% and it reduced to 2% thereafter. The change was that people were allowed to pick their own slots rather than having a slot allocated.

Clearly, in some areas people are looking for driver permits because the public transport system is not working. That is not exclusive to rural areas. A good part of the area I represent is provided with a Dublin Bus service. It is known as the commuter belt but some of the changes with Bus Connects have put people back in their cars. If there is going to be investment, it has to meet the needs of people where they are.

When there is sanction for additional driver testers and people apply and are approved, are we looking at the geography of the situation? People who are approved to take up those positions may not be able to do so because of the cost of housing in certain areas. Does the RSA consider where vacancies need to be filled before jobs are offered and people are trained? Being mobile is very often essential for people because they cannot reside in the places they want to reside in as a result of the cost of housing. That is the issue that goes to the heart of an awful lot of our problems.

Deputy Paul Murphy

I thank the Deputies who brought forward this motion. It is a scandal, and an avoidable one, that tens of thousands of people are waiting for months to get driver tests to acquire driver's licences. Ideally, and this is what we need to work towards, we would not have such a demand for private car licences because we would have free, frequent and accessible public transport for the vast majority of people in the country and public transport would be an accessible and more attractive option for most of them, rather than driving everywhere. Unfortunately, driving is currently an absolute necessity for many in Ireland because we do not have that sort of public transport system. That is definitely the case in rural Ireland but also for many in urban Ireland. People have to drive to get to work but are faced with this completely avoidable crisis.

Waiting times to book a driving test are three times the official target. That represents a 61% increase in just one year. An incredible 71,554 people are awaiting an invitation to book their driving tests. This is not a complicated issue to solve. The answer is simply that more driver testers are needed.

A constituent of mine was in touch to share his experience. He has spent the past six months on a waiting list to go on a waiting list to get a date for his driving test. He has been advised that when he gets onto this next list to do his test, he could be waiting another six months. In the meantime, he has completed all of the lessons required. He is ready to do his test but has been left waiting. I am obviously not advocating that people should drive without a licence but we should recognise the reality that when the waiting lists are this long, it is inevitable that some people will feel they have no other option than to drive on a learner's permit. The dogs on the street know that this has been happening for years. It is no way to operate a safe road and transport system.

The young man who was in touch with me needs to travel by car due to the lack of public transport to where he works and the fact that he must bring his tools to work with him. If he had the opportunity to pass his test to allow him to drive to work each day, he would not have the stress and uncertainty of getting into trouble for choosing to drive without a licence because it is the only way he can get to work. He has tried hard to get his licence. He has done everything he is supposed to do but the State is failing him. Despite his best efforts, he has been unable to get a fully licensed driver to travel to and from work with him each day. He, therefore, feels forced to drive as a learner without a fully licensed driver in the car. The result is that he has had his car taken from him by the Garda on four occasions. He will have five penalty points on his licence before he even gets his full licence. He has faced the cost of €135 each time to get his car back. The young man has almost lost his job because his car was taken by the Garda one evening on his way home with all his tools for work in it. This is a failure by the State. Young people and anyone else who is looking to get a driving test should not be put in this position. The Government is failing young people for a whole number of reasons and in a whole number of areas. There are cost-of-living, housing and health crises. There has been a failure to meet our climate targets. This is another issue, which is easily resolved. The key requirements are to expedite the recruitment of additional driver testers and to implement a plan to ensure that the official target of the maximum of a ten-week waiting period, which is more unobserved than observed at this stage, is met.

It is obviously welcome that the Government said it is not opposing this motion or tabling an amendment to oppose it and, therefore, it will presumably pass unanimously pass in 40 minutes. The problem is we all know that every two or three weeks, a motion like this on some issue passes unanimously in the Dáil because the Government does not oppose it. Unfortunately, however, it does not signify any willingness by the Government to actually do anything about it. The Government is simply happy to pass these motions and say, "This stuff is terrible, and something should be done", but then not look at itself and say, "We are the ones who have the power to do something about it." Unfortunately, it seems to me that often the Government chooses not to oppose these motions not out of a genuine commitment to implement what is set out in the motion or tackle the issue but out of a purely cynical idea that it is better not to be seen to oppose a motion because it is popular, and the less it opposes it, the less attention will be given to the issue. I hope this is not the case here. I hope the Government will implement what is set out in the motion. If it does not, as I fear will be the case, we certainly will use the motion as a stick against the Government to say, "Wait a minute, you agreed to and did not oppose this motion and allowed it to pass unanimously. Why have you not acted on it?" It will be very clear where the responsibility for this problem lies. It will be very clear to the 70,000 people waiting for these tests that responsibility lies with the Government and the Government is choosing not to act.

Deputy Verona Murphy

It beggars belief that at a point when we have so many serious road accidents, we have not addressed the RSA. We need to reprimand it. The Minister stated previous to the Minister of State that representatives from the RSA had appeared before the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications. I endorse Deputy Nolan's request that they be brought back before the committee. We are discussing driver testing but we should be discussing all the road safety issues and all the deaths that are occurring on the road, which have increased, as a matter of fact, since the RSA was formed, and dramatically at that. It has a CEO, Mr. Sam Waide, who seems to be elusive.

I tabled a parliamentary question one month ago that was referred to the RSA and I have not received an answer to it yet. It refers to a young man who is looking for a scribe to complete his certificate of professional competence, CPC, case studies for a rigid truck. At a time we are at full employment, every effort should be made to assist. While a scribe was available to him for his theory test, one is not available to him when he has to provide written case studies. That really does not make any sense. I ask that this be addressed rapidly in order that this young man can move on with his career before he emigrates like so many others. I concur with all the Deputies who said our housing crisis as well as the fact people cannot get a driving licence are contributing to emigration. I would like to see it halted as soon as possible.

The other day, I did a radio interview with the former Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Shane Ross. The discussion was about how we had a very serious issue with the policing of our roads with regard to drunk-driving, speeding and drug-driving, and that speeding was primarily the cause of so many accidents. I did not agree entirely. While speeding is certainly a factor, it is only one factor because there are many issues, one of which is the fact that drivers are not being tested in a timely fashion. Ten weeks is the target. It is actually taking 30 weeks, according to the Minister. In County Wexford, however, the waiting time is 32 weeks. That is just unacceptable.

In addition, there is so much regulation overseen by the National Parks and Wildlife Service regarding how hedgerows are maintained, particularly on the roadside. It is just unacceptable. Each county council should take it into its own hands. Where hedges need cutting on the roadside, they should be cut. There are no birds nesting on the roadside. There are 6,000 km of hedgerow all over the country. We should at least make sure we make provision for road safety when it comes to our hedgerows.

Equally, I refer to road surfacing, which was mentioned by another colleague. Our roads are not being maintained to a standard. We have a serious issue now with water on roads in every part of the country, but particularly in rural Ireland. There was a time when a county council worker went around on a Honda 50 with a shovel in his hand cleaning out drains, and he did the country a great service. Unfortunately, we do not seem to have either the workforce or people are no longer instructed to do this job. The weather for the whole year has been atrocious. We can see it and it is evident as a contributory factor to many of the road accidents we have had. I ask that we do everything possible to remedy this. We can do better. I hate to hear Departments and Government colleagues outline what the information is because often the information is very different from the situation. I ask Government colleagues to clarify that when they get information, it actually fits the situation.

Deputy Seán Canney

I thank the Rural Independent Group for bringing forward this very important issue. No more than any other Teachta Dála, in my constituency in Galway East I have received numerous requests from young people especially who are trying to get a driving licence and trying to get an appointment to do their tests. The problem is twofold in my constituency. First, it is a rural constituency and we do not have the public transport. Young people take up work and buy a car to do their training but then they must wait and cannot drive the car to get to work. They have no access to public transport. Second, they may be young apprentices who have to bring a change of clothes or might have to bring tools with them as well. They need a car because public transport is not available.

The other cohort are students who cannot afford to stay in accommodation in our cities at their universities. The accommodation is not available, so their only choice is to travel by car. They are left wondering when they might be able to drive a car legally on the roads. We are letting young people down and doubly so because first, we are not providing the public transport initially so they do not need a car and, second, maybe it is a coerced way of trying to stop them from driving and forcing them to do something else. I really do not know. I do not know whether we want them all on bicycles going to work. I just cannot figure it out. It is, therefore, important that we get it right.

The Government is not opposing the motion. That in itself does nothing for the situation we have, however. We need to see the response to actually deal with this problem. How are we going to take action to make sure we improve the waiting times so that people are not waiting up to six months or beyond that for a driving test? It is forcing people to drive cars illegally. Everything goes fine until something goes wrong and if somebody has an accident, they are not covered by insurance. We are forcing people into a situation that is not right and that is untenable. It is important that we get this right.

We have a crisis in our business sector trying to find people to work. We need, therefore, to make sure every obstacle is removed to allow people to go to work. Let us do this where there is no public transport. I can say for sure that if we had more public transport, and if we had the western rail corridor open from Athenry north to Tuam and up to Claremorris, we would create a transport corridor that would be sustainable and environmentally good. Again, however, it is being dragged out. The all-island rail review advised the Government to go ahead with it. I implore the Government to look at this as a very serious issue, and also to look at the issue of road safety. By the way, reducing speed limits does nothing for safety. People will drive at whatever speed at which they feel they can drive. The problem is that we have more than enough laws but there is not enough enforcement or enough of a presence on the roads to make sure people are obeying the laws.

I believe the issue of cutting the verges along the roads is a major problem in every local authority for the simple reason that every local authority will say they do not have money to do it. It is a safety issue. Let us put the money into it, for God's sake, and try to save a few lives.

Deputy Violet-Anne Wynne

I commend the Rural Independent Group for tabling this important motion. Young constituents reach out to my office all the time who are unable to take up further and higher education, apprenticeships and jobs because of these disgraceful delays. Towards the end of the summer, my office was contacted by a young man from north Clare, who was due to start at the college in Pallaskenry in September and needed to travel from his home and back daily. The young constituent told me:

I can't use student accommodation due to the cost and the fact that I will be farming at home myself. I did try to get all this done sooner but I only turned 17 in October last, then it took a long time for driving instructors to have availability, then there was an issue with the RSA system that my lessons took weeks and weeks to upload and now I have the issue of waiting on a driving test. In the meantime, I saved up and bought my own car and insurance.

It's not an option for me to be dropped and collected to Pallaskenry every day and there is no realistic public transport option to help get me there and back.

I wrote to the RSA to see if anything could be done. I was told that the wait time was extremely high in Clare and he could wait for the five months. There was no cancellation list and no early appointments were possible. This was an absolute disgrace and on behalf of that young man and the many other young constituents, I ask the Minister of State to get proactive about this situation. We have been discussing this issue on the floor of this Chamber for weeks and months. I ask the Minister of State to take heed of this motion and act on the issue, rather than just not oppose it. The fact that there is no prioritisation for any individual based on individual circumstances is incredible. Rural women have contacted me who are pregnant and are against the clock, but they are unable to access services, supports and even appointments because they cannot get an earlier appointment. That needs to be addressed.

Minister of State at the Department of Education (Deputy Josepha Madigan)

On behalf of the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, I thank Deputies for their contributions to the debate on the national driver testing service. From both the motion itself and contributions from Deputies during the debate, I believe we are all in agreement about wanting to provide a reliable, high-quality driver testing service throughout the State. As the House is aware, the Government is strongly committed to providing all citizens with reliable public services. The driver testing service provision is no different. This is a key responsibility of the RSA and is integral to the delivery of the Government's road safety strategy. It is only through a robust testing service that we can have confidence that drivers on Irish roads have been trained and tested to the highest standards on how to handle a vehicle safely on our roads. This is especially critical in light of recent trends on our roads.

As the Minister of State explained, we are seeing unprecedented demand for driver testing services, which has increased by 28% compared with 2021 figures. The Road Safety Authority is currently providing an average of 4,000 tests per week, which is up from 3,186 in October 2022. The number of applications made for a driver test in 2023 is 5,024 per week on average and has increased from 3,254 applications per week in 2018.

The Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, and the Department of Transport have responded swiftly to this issue. At the beginning of the year, anticipating demand pressures, the authority reviewed the capacity of the driver testing service. Following a request for additional resources in March of this year, the Department of Transport granted sanction for the recruitment of up to 75 additional driver testers, bringing the total number of sanctioned driver tester posts to over 200. Recruitment is under way and being managed by the authority. I am pleased to say that the first tranche of new recruits was deployed in September. It was noted by the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, that as of Friday, 6 October, 29 additional testers have joined the RSA and been deployed or are in training. A further 13 new testers are lined up for November. This will bring an overall net increase to the organisation of 42 additional testing personnel.

As the Minister of State outlined, we are already seeing improvements in the invitation to test waiting times. The national average has dropped from 30.4 weeks in August to 28.5 weeks in September. This is as a direct result of the additional capacity to test in the system. As this capacity further increases, the waiting times will continue to reduce. As this downward trajectory gains pace, a plan is in place in the RSA for the agreed service level, with average wait times of not more than ten weeks to be restored by the middle of 2024.

I draw the attention of Deputies to the Government's road safety strategy. We are committing to achieving Vision Zero, with no deaths or serious injuries on our roads by 2050. A milestone on the path to that goal is to halve the number of deaths and serious injuries on our roads by the end of this decade. As the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, emphasised, we must therefore ensure our driver tests are carried out to the highest standard to ensure safe and responsible drivers on our roads. Recruiting the right testers is critical to this outcome.

On the matter of payment for services using cash, the Minister has been clear that there must be an alternative payment option to electronic and card payments for all services provided. Further, the Minister for Finance has written to all Departments to advise that public bodies under this aegis should continue to accept cash payments while his Department prepares legislation and a new national payment strategy. On behalf of the Minister, I reiterate that no changes to payment methods have been agreed or implemented and no timeframe for any changes has been agreed or is in place. The RSA is clear on the need for alternatives to electronic payments in its discussions with service delivery providers. I once again thank Deputies for tabling this motion and for their contributions during the debate.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

We tabled this motion in good faith. The Government has decided not to oppose it but it is a complete cop-out. It is an abject failure of the Department. I am disappointed that the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, is not here for the reply.

With the Chair's indulgence, I would like to sympathise with the families of the four young leaving certificate students from Clonmel. They were on their way to get a bus in Clonmel to celebrate their leaving certificate and met their untimely deaths. They were from the McSweeney, Murphy and Coffey families. It is so sad. I salute the Garda Síochána, the emergency services, all the other auxiliary services, indeed Fr. Billy Meehan, who attended the scene, South Tipperary General Hospital, and every person in the community who rallied around those people. The following week, there was a tragedy in Cashel when a little baby and her grandparents were killed. We do not know the causes. Nobody does. It just shows how fickle life can be.

I thank the communities for the support of the families. I thank an Rialtas too. Uachtarán na hÉireann came down. Everybody came. Ní neart go cur le chéile. There was a sense of the meitheal. It was amazing in Clonmel that weekend. I spoke to the superintendent on the Monday morning afterwards to thank the gardaí. They have an awful job in a situation like that. There was not a crime in the town that weekend. None of the usual incidents happened. There was no crime. With the trauma and grief, everything stopped, even the crime, which was a wonderful experience. Everybody respected that. Funerals have been held and there is one more to go this Sunday. People have been trying to pick up the pieces. It is tough.

On road safety, I want to welcome our young people here today. It is wonderful that they want to go driving. When we were young, my neighbours would not let me near a vehicle. We did not have the vehicles, first of all. We might be able to drive a tractor or whatever. Young people now are educated, bright, enthusiastic and have their lives ahead of them. They are emigrating because they cannot get driver licences. It is a crying shame that waiting lists are so long. The figures are just not acceptable in any country, never mind a modern day democracy. The number of people waiting for driver tests has increased by 61% in the last year. More than 71,500 people are waiting for a test date.

The RSA and NCT operators were before the Committee on Transport and Communications on 20 September 2023. I reiterate what Deputy Nolan said earlier. We should have Ms O'Donnell, the chairperson of the RSA, and any other officials who are responsible for the RSA back before the committee. It has a service-level agreement, which is its contract. Its contract is null and void because it is not fulfilling the contract. It is meant to be a ten-week waiting list. I have the figures for the waiting list here. It is just not acceptable. The Cathaoirleach Gníomhach, Deputy Verona Murphy, is a businessperson. Many of us here on this side are businesspeople too.

We would not survive a week or month in business if we treated people like this. The procedure now is that people must apply for a test and apply to be invited to do a test. It is another layer of bureaucracy that has just been put in there. I salute county council staff from long ago, and the driving testers, when we had no lessons but went in, did our tests and passed them. We walked into the council, paid our fiver, and got our licence or ceadúnas, which included many vehicles.

I ask the Minister of State at the Department of Transport, Deputy Chambers, a young Minister who I like as a person, to think of his party's former leader, Charles J. Haughey, and be a visionary, do something for the country and its young people, as he is a young Minister, and ask for an amnesty. I remember when Liam Hyland's colleague in Laois-Offaly - Deputy Nolan might assist me - brought in the amnesty. At that time, a licence was given to everybody. They just had to go in and buy it. Many of those people are still on the road under several categories. That was not a good thing but it happened and had to happen because of the backlog.

Due to the proficiency of driving instructors, who I also salute for the job they do, and the fact people now have to have 12 lessons with a certified, respected and recognised instructor before they can even apply for a test, I propose that we have an amnesty. Where that instructor is willing to send people forward for a test, he must also be willing to give them a certificate of their driving competency. That certificate should allow them their full licence until such time as they can get their tests. If they fail that test, they can go back to start again.

This situation is just not fair. It borders on criminal. It is mental torture and shameful that we have young people who want to get on the road. They want to get on the road, and I heard Deputy Murphy mention this in respect of parts of Kildare that I do not know, because in rural Ireland especially they cannot manage without a car. As Deputy Healy-Rae alluded to, I wonder whether there is a veiled attempt by the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, to stop people getting on the road. We know he wants to get cars off the road. He wants people back on bikes, whether it is on penny-farthing bikes, or walking, crawling, pushing a wheelbarrow or whatever. He wants them back in the dark ages with the south-facing window boxes and perished in our homes. Is there an agenda here? The Minister was called out recently by the TII regarding accidents and deaths it suggested would happen on the roads if he did not allow road projects to go ahead. This man has an awful lot to answer for if the TII could come out and make that statement. Has he another underlying, underbelly motive of not wanting people to get on the road? I think he may have. If he has, that must be outed by the Minister of State in Cabinet.

I ask the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, to be a visionary, have a bit of courage - I almost said another word, to grow something - take this on, bring it to Cabinet and get it happening. It is persecution of our young people. As employers, I can speak for the three of us from the Rural Independent Group who are sitting here and others as well. We have people who want to come to work for us but they cannot because they have no full licence. We cannot allow them on the road without that so it is affecting industry. People cannot travel to college. People want to do their apprenticeships in the wonderful new centre at Archerstown near Thurles, another extension to which opened last week. It is a wonderful hub for apprenticeships but people cannot drive there unless they have a full licence. The former Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Shane Ross, in his wisdom, brought in the impediment that young drivers must have a fully licensed driver with them at all times. Of course, he could hop on the bus to his plush house out the road in the leafy suburbs of County Wicklow.

The Government is persecuting people and not thinking about what it is doing. The RSA is a fundamental failure. Apparently, Germany has the same number of deaths we have on its roads. That country does not allow drivers, shortly after getting a full licence, to drive on the autobahns without doing a further test and doing some lessons on those motorways. It seems we should be looking at that here and not the stupid, simple things we are looking at. This Government has lost the will to live as far as I am concerned, if we consider the HSE, the whole housing situation, and many other areas. This area is simple, however.

We talk about road safety but the Government has no more interest in road safety, as other Deputies said. When I was on the county council in 1990, I put down a motion that it would make an inventory of all the drains, inlets and culverts. Deputy Verona Murphy spoke about the man on the Honda 50. It was all men, but I do not care whether it is a man or woman on a Honda 50 or a nifty 50. They should get out with a shovel, because it cannot be done with machines, and open all those inlets. We cannot drive on the roads. Water on roads is one of the most dangerous things of all time. The best of cars will be upturned with water pertaining. The roads cannot then be maintained because frost comes and destroys the road surface. Simple, basic maintenance is not being done. The whole baloney that we cannot cut the hedges is criminal. Road safety, people's personal safety and lifesaving safety must be more important than the flora and fauna. As Deputy Verona Murphy said, the birds have plenty of room in the fields, although we all want to support them as well. The authorities will not deal with the deer population, which is causing mayhem on the roads in County Tipperary.

Many areas need attention but to return to the licensing issue, the Government has failed the people. Accepting the motion is not much good to those people because it can walk away, saying it is all fine, we had a nice debate, and let the merry issue go on. The RSA must be held to account. It must go back to basics. We have all these agencies, including the HSE, the RSA and TII, and we have worse services for people. All our money is being gobbled up in agencies and offices, with brass plates on the wall, a chairperson, a chief executive, and everything else. They have fine jobs but are doing nothing only making services worse. For God's sake, it is the definition of insanity to keep throwing money at things and expect a different result. All these quangos should be cut out and the people who want to drive should be allowed on roads safely. Let them get to work and college and let them educate themselves. Do we want them all on aeroplanes flying abroad?

A foreign driver can come here - do not get me wrong, I am not anti-foreign - and drive on an international licence with no experience of our roads, including driving on a different side of the road, and without any test or any oversight from the RSA. What are we thinking about? Why are we not being fair? Why do we want to penalise and punish our best and brightest young people? Mol an óige agus tiocfaidh sí. What are we doing? We are persecuting young people and are denying their basic rights. They have the enthusiasm, spirit and interest in getting jobs, getting educated, being in the workforce, getting married, settling down, having a family, and keeping our country alive. However, the Government seems to want to just leave them languish, punish them in every which way, and then criticise them for this, that and the other and blame them unfairly for accidents and everything else. Taking this motion without a vote is just a cop-out for the Government's backbenchers that allows them to not vote against it. The Government has created and is overseeing an appalling vista. It wants to continue to have that going on with no improvement. It is a shocking situation that people have to wait a year to be allowed to apply for a test and maybe wait another six months again. It is sinful.

Question put and agreed to.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar fionraí ar 11.47 a.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 12.02 p.m.

Sitting suspended at 11.47 a.m. and resumed at 12.02 p.m.