Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 8 Nov 2023

Vol. 1045 No. 2

Ceisteanna ar Pholasaí nó ar Reachtaíocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

As Israel continues to lay waste to Gaza and its medical infrastructure, there are 50,000 pregnant women who cannot access basic health services and proper care. Now, Al-Awda Hospital, the only hospital in northern Gaza left providing maternity services, will shut down as fuel runs out. The trauma and the horror experienced by Gazan women is the stuff of nightmares. It is a living nightmare. Women are undergoing Caesarian sections without anaesthesia. Emergency sections are being performed on dying pregnant women hit by Israeli airstrikes. Doctors perform maternity procedures often under the light of a cellphone, without access to clean water to wash their hands or antibiotics to prevent infection.

Israel's bombardment is not defence. This is vicious revenge. We are witnessing war crimes and Israel must be held accountable for its actions. An unequivocal ceasefire is needed now. We agree on that. Can the Taoiseach set out the sanctions the State is prepared to take against Israel to hold it to account?

The Taoiseach

We agree that an immediate humanitarian ceasefire is required. The killing has to stop. Hostages need to be released. Citizens of other countries need to be allowed to leave and we need to make sure that we get humanitarian aid into Gaza as soon as possible. The Government is not proposing any specific sanctions at this point. We know when sanctions work. Sanctions work when they are done on a multilateral basis. Sanctions done unilaterally generally do more harm to the person imposing the sanctions than the entity on which they are imposed. Sanctions should, therefore, only be carried out on a multilateral basis in my view.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

Amid the unthinkable devastation and loss of life in Gaza, we are now hearing that more than 10,000 civilians, including 4,000 children, have been killed in the brutal Israeli bombardment. I thank the Taoiseach for his willingness to engage on that yesterday following my question on Opposition briefings. That would be very useful in the spirit of trying to achieve a cross-party approach from Irish legislators on the appalling situation in Gaza. I want to ask the Taoiseach about the situation for Irish citizens trapped in Gaza. We are hearing increasingly desperate pleas for help from those who currently see no way out with their families and who are not appearing on the lists of those who apparently are to be allowed to make the Rafah crossing. Can the Taoiseach brief us in any way on what more we can do at national and EU level to assist and support our own citizens in Gaza?

I also refer to the appalling situation for pregnant women and new mothers in Gaza, which Deputy McDonald raised.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

The news from Al-Awda hospital in Gaza today is absolutely deeply distressing-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

-----and we need to know-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy; the time is up.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

-----that at least pregnant women and women about to give birth-----

An Ceann Comhairle

The time is up, Deputy, please.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

-----to new babies will be allowed out.

The Taoiseach

There are an estimated 8,000 foreign and dual nationals and immediate dependents in Gaza who are seeking to leave. Evacuations are being managed on a country-by-country basis and it will take time for this process to be completed. The names of all Irish citizens in Gaza who have asked to be included on the list of those to be evacuated have been submitted to the relevant authorities. We do not know when they will be able to leave. There will be no evacuations of foreign nationals from Gaza over the weekend. Our embassies in Cairo and Tel Aviv are in regular communication with the authorities in Egypt and Israel in this regard.

Deputy Holly Cairns

I am very concerned about the prevalence of strategic lawsuits against public participation or so-called SLAPPs. As the Taoiseach knows, these lawsuits involve public figures, powerful individuals or rich corporations taking vexatious cases against the media, activists or, indeed, members of the public in an effort to muzzle their critics.

It is particularly concerning when journalists are personally sued in addition to the publisher as these cases can be financially ruinous. When proceedings are taken in the High Court, costs sometimes run into the millions of euro, forcing journalists and media outlets to settle out of court, even in cases they could win.

The effect of all this is that those with deep pockets can shut down debate and silence public interest journalism. Successive Governments have promised to reform our defamation laws for years, but we are still waiting. A true democracy needs a strong and responsible media that can hold powerful people and corporations to account. Pre-legislative scrutiny of the general scheme of the defamation (amendment) Bill-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy, time is up.

Deputy Holly Cairns

-----has been completed and a report was published in September. When can we expect the Government to publish the revised Bill?

The Taoiseach

We will have that quite soon. The Minister, Deputy McEntee, is working on heads of the Bill and we hope to have that enacted next year.

I was not going to bring it up, but I do agree with the Deputy. People are entitled to sue the media if they so wish, but they do not have to. There are other ways to seek redress, one of which is a complaint to the Press Council of Ireland. That is the appropriate course that people should follow. To see a Member in this House not just suing a major newspaper but also personally suing a journalist is only designed to do one thing; it is designed to make journalists afraid. It is designed to make them think twice about what they write and that is wrong. There are other ways to get redress and corrections and clarifications. At the very least, the first step should be the Press Council of Ireland and not suing a news organisation, and particularly not suing a journalist individually. I think that is frightening actually.

Deputy Bríd Smith

The Industrial Relations (Provisions in Respect of Pension Entitlements of Retired Workers) Bill 2020 has been going through the system here for more than two years. The last we heard about it was in a letter that stated that the Minister referred it to the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Humphreys, who is responsible for pensions. This is a Bill about industrial relations, not pensions. However, having accepted that it has been referred for consideration to the Minister for Social Protection, we have heard nothing back and it has been weeks since it was referred. There has been much discussion about looking after and respecting older people, which is hugely important, but these people - retired workers who have been active trade unionists all their lives - have spent more than ten years campaigning to have representation at the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, when their pensions are being interfered with. We have not had a response, and none of them are getting any younger. It is very unfair to those people in the public sector who built this society-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy. Time is up.

Deputy Bríd Smith

-----and have worked hard all their lives. They are now looking for representation-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy.

Deputy Bríd Smith

-----and if the Taoiseach does not believe they are entitled to representation, he should please say so straight out to us. If not, he might please ask the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, to respond to them as soon as possible.

The Taoiseach

I will have to check up on that. The former Minister of State, Deputy English, had done a lot of work on it and was very advanced on that legislation to give the people to which the Deputy referred at least a say, and they should have a say. I do not know exactly where we are with that, however. I will check with the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, and Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, and come back to the Deputy.

Deputy Matt Shanahan

Our banking sector is failing those in gambling addiction recovery. I am referencing the failure of the Irish banks, aside from Revolut, to offer gambling blocks to payment cards. This provides people with the option of preventing any and all gambling activity for 24 to 48 hours while they consider and fully contemplate the decision. The protocols are widespread and available in the UK banking sector and the evidence shows that they have a major part to play in helping people in recovering from addiction. In 2019, AIB and Bank of Ireland publicly stated that they were considering introducing gambling blocks but they have not done so to date. I welcome the development of the new Gambling Regulatory Authority of Ireland and the new Gambling Regulation Bill 2022, but I point out to the Taoiseach that this gambling issue is not covered. Will the Government request a meeting with the banks to see what stage they are currently at in the introduction of gambling blocks, and will this initiative be proposed in pending legislation?

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy Shanahan for raising this very important issue. We have very serious problem in this country with gambling addiction and it is getting worse. Of course, it has been amplified by the fact that it is so easy to gamble online and make purchases online. As the Deputy knows, the Minister of State, Deputy Browne, is currently bringing that legislation through the House. I am not sure exactly what the situation is with the banks and the blocks the Deputy mentioned, but I will make inquiries with the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath, and Minister of State, Deputy Browne, to see if we can act on that.

Deputy Michael Collins

Yesterday's news of a case of BSE found in an Irish animal has halted valuable exports of beef to the Chinese market. This could not come at a worse time for Irish agriculture, which has been hit from every direction both from Europe but more alarmingly, from our own Government, which continues to treat farmers like environmental terrorists. This is from the farmers' mouths at recent meetings I have been attending. The fact that this case of BSE was caught shows the excellent surveillance system we have in this country, which surely gives comfort to the 70 countries to which we export. However, the last time we had a BSE animal in 2020, the Chinese did not allow the Irish to export beef to China for at least three years. What measures has this Government in place this time to have the Irish back exporting beef to China, a very valuable market for Irish agriculture, as soon as this issue is cleared up? Irish farmers cannot wait three years before the market reopens again.

The Taoiseach

It is extremely disappointing for our farmers and our food industry that a case of atypical BSE has been detected. We export over 90% of the beef we produce, so our reputation for safe and sustainable production is crucial. The animal was ten and a half years old and was identified during the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine's ongoing systemic surveillance of fallen animals. The animal did not enter the food or feed chain so there is no public health risk associated with this occurrence. Atypical BSE is a rare spontaneous event that may occur in any bovine population and, indeed, in most mammals. It is not related to feed contamination. Ireland has been granted World Organisation for Animal Health negligible risk status for BSE. This is the lowest risk rating available. The identification of a single case does not affect our rating as being at the lowest risk so that is encouraging. It is disappointing that the Chinese market is temporary closed to us. As the Deputy knows, it is only a small proportion of our export market, so I do not think it will have an impact on price or on other issues. Certainly, however, we will work with the Chinese control authority to try to have that ban lifted as soon as possible. We have no indications that any of the 70 other countries that we export to are going to follow suit.

Deputy Thomas Pringle

Increased frequency and intensity of extreme weather events is unfortunately a reality of the country's present and future. As we have seen in the last few weeks, such events will cause substantial damage and loss to infrastructure, nature and human health. It is essential we prepare and plan for this.

Errigal College in Letterkenny requires an extension to double the size of the school to help meet the demand for post-primary school places in the town. However, the extension has been delayed indefinitely due to a risk of downstream flooding. The council, the Office of Public Works, OPW, and the Department of Education must work together to progress the much-needed extension. How will this work? As this is an issue that will become more and more prominent in future, it is something we need to plan for now. How will the Government ensure Departments, councils and the OPW are able to plan and receive funding for a timely, climate-proofing future for infrastructure projects to see they will not be delayed indefinitely in future?

Minister of State at the Department of Education (Deputy Josepha Madigan)

If the Deputy would like to give me the details of that case I can speak to the Department about it. There are guidelines from the Department that go directly to schools concerning travel and weather issues. Were the Deputy to give me the details, I could discuss it with him afterwards.

Deputy Colm Burke

As the Taoiseach is aware, there has been a 40% increase in the population of the country. There has been a huge population increase in the Cork area in particular. The Government decided there would be a new elective hospital built in Cork. My understanding was that a design team was appointed 12 months ago. When the Secretary General of the Department of Health was before the health committee the week before last, he advised the design team for designing the hospital still has not been appointed. He said while a preliminary team was put in place, the new team has not been put in place. When is a team going to be put in place? When is the design of the project going to start? When are we likely to have a planning application lodged for the building of a new elective hospital in Cork? We need it to deal with day care procedures and provide access to theatres, which many consultants cannot get at the present time.

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy Burke for raising the Cork elective hospital again. It is an issue he has been campaigning on for quite some time. The Government has identified St. Stephen's Hospital as the preferred site for the new elective hospital for Cork. It is now in planning phase and developing detailed project briefs, a procurement strategy and pre-tender business case for all the elective hospitals. I am advised the appointment of an integrated design team is under way at present and will be in place in early 2024.

Deputy Claire Kerrane

The suspension of beef exports to China is a real blow, especially when the market had only reopened recently and was building back slowly. What is more worrying is the last time we had this same situation the suspension lasted three years and that cannot happen again. While I appreciate this is a matter for the Chinese Government, what engagement has the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine has had with the Chinese authorities and what specifically will he be doing to be proactive in ensuring the speedy reversal of this decision? Likewise, the demand for beef is really strong in our main export markets, but the supply of cattle here is tightening and beef farmers should be seeing better prices, but there remains that 30 cent gap with the export benchmark price. We need to see that gap closing to enure better prices for beef farmers again. I ask the Minister to be just as proactive in seeking to close that gap, especially given we still have a situation where many farmers are not getting a fair price for their produce consistently.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy can be sure both the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, and the Minister of State, Deputy Heydon, will be very proactive on this and indeed the Tánaiste is in China as we speak. The Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine has to submit an epidemiological report to the Chinese control authority, which it will assess before deciding whether the suspension can be lifted. The Department has commenced the investigation and will work to provide this information to the Chinese authorities as soon as possible. We are of the view the suspension should be able to be lifted following the submission of this document, given the atypical and isolated nature of this case, as well as the efficacy of our BSE surveillance system.

Deputy Fergus O'Dowd

The care of older people in nursing homes like those run by Aperee is a cause of increasing concern for HIQA and others. Sage Advocacy recently published a Red C poll of public opinion on the issue of supports and care for older people. One of the significant findings is the public has a concern that home care and nursing home care have become overly concentrated in the hands of private providers and people feel we need innovation and new alternatives to nursing home care, especially with regard to not-for-profit organisations, to help meet the challenges of an ageing society in our economy.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Mary Butler)

I thank the Deputy for his constant advocacy for older people and especially appropriate nursing home care. There has been ongoing regulatory engagement between HIQA and Aperee, including provider meetings and cautionary and warning meetings. Unfortunately, two nursing homes have closed to date. One is in Ballygunner in Waterford and the other near Kinsale in Cork. As of Friday week last, the HSE has taken over the running of Aperee Living in Callan, County Kilkenny, and it will continue to run it as a going concern at the moment.

I thank Sage for all its advocacy. I looked at the Red C poll it commissioned and just this morning, we had a Labour Party motion on home care. The situation has raised the fact that much of the care being provided is being outsourced to private providers but we also have some fantastic voluntary groups that provide care.

Deputy Brendan Smith

We are very fortunate that we have a great network of supermarkets and other food stores of varying sizes in our towns and villages. The stores are predominately very modern with high standards of hygiene and good service for customers. Those retailers are very concerned about the small business support scheme. They state very clearly that the measures proposed in the budget will not be of enough assistance to them to meet rising costs and some of those costs are attributable to Government decisions. The exclusion of businesses paying more than €20,000 in rates is causing particular problems. Those businesses are labour-intensive and energy is a substantial percentage of their overall trading loss. They need to obtain additional Government support to trade profitably and retain existing staffing complements. I spoke a supermarket owner in my constituency who has two very good stores that employ 160 people. He said he will not be in a position to trade profitably enough to retain present staffing levels or indeed to recruit additional staff, as he had hoped to do.

The Taoiseach

The Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Coveney, has been allocated €250 million to establish a scheme to help businesses with rising costs to cushion the blow of rising costs and to enable them to retain their staff. To put it in context, €250 million is twice the amount claimed under the temporary business energy support scheme this year, so it is a very substantial allocation. The Minister, Deputy Coveney, and the Minister of State, Deputy Calleary, are working on the detail of the scheme so the money can be paid in the new year, but as is always the case, we have to draw the line somewhere and the more large or medium-sized businesses we bring into it, the less there will be for the very small businesses. That is something the Minister and Minister of State are working on at the moment.

Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

My office was very busy on Monday. I had people ringing us and coming in because they were told the part-time X-ray unit in Carlow at St. Dympna's Hospital, which is an excellent facility, is being closed for refurbishment. That was fine. I was trying to find out about that and of course got no word from the HSE. Then I found out the primary school dental clinic beside it is closed for refurbishment. We have one dentist in the county-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Where is this, Deputy?

Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

-----of Carlow.

An Ceann Comhairle

Oh Carlow, yes.

Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

Just to let the Taoiseach know, it is Carlow. We have one dentist in the county of Carlow. Now the dental clinic for primary schools is closed and I am told it is for refurbishment. I got no information about it. I got no timescale and this is unacceptable.

There is another issue. I tell all the Ministers and Ministers of State here that we really need to get our act together. I had a 79-year-old man at the weekend who had a horrific fall and he was waiting six hours for the ambulance. He broke his hip and his shoulder.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you Deputy.

Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

He had to go to Waterford. Then last week another man fell-----

An Ceann Comhairle

The time is up.

Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

-----and he was waiting six hours for an ambulance. I understand-----

An Ceann Comhairle

The time is up Deputy. I am sorry, you cannot ask any more.

Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

-----things are happening, but we are getting to a stage where we cannot let this happen to the Carlow people.

Deputy Mary Butler

We are used to hearing the Deputy advocating very strongly for people in Carlow but these issues happen all over the country as well. I do not have the specific details on St. Dympna's Hospital and the primary care centre for the dental clinic but at the same time, we must have standards and refurbishment and best practice are very important too. I will speak to the Deputy after this and try to get some of the details from her and get a comprehensive answer to her.

An Ceann Comhairle

I welcome Deputy Patricia Ryan back after her mishap.

Deputy Patricia Ryan

I feel the Deputy's pain about waiting lists, I can say that much.

Losing a loved one is never easy but for those whose loved ones passed away during Covid in nursing homes and care facilities without their families around them, it was especially hard. Families were denied access to their loved ones as they died and they are still being denied answers in respect of their deaths. The huge trauma and mental distress caused to families and care workers in nursing homes and care facilities is still being felt today. These people deserve to be heard. As Sinn Féin spokesperson for older people, I have met many families and advocacy groups, including Care Champions. I have listened to their stories and their grief. They tell me that there must be a clear, transparent and impartial investigation with the direct involvement of the residents and the families affected. I welcome that the Government has spoken about having a public inquiry into this and I appreciate that but I ask that we have a date sooner rather than later.

The Taoiseach

We are confident we will have the memorandum and the terms of reference to the Cabinet in the next couple of weeks but then we will need to approve people to serve on the panel, to be the chair and to serve on the inquiry. We hope to make progress on that quite soon. There will be a public element to it and nursing homes will be covered. It will, of course, be complicated in certain circumstances such as where litigation is under way. I am not sure it will be able to undertake inquiries where other inquires are happening or where litigation is under way but we will work all that out.

Deputy Emer Higgins

The Government is encouraging more and more people to use their bike and leave their cars at home. I believe that professional cyclists should be setting a good example to new and commuting cyclists by creating a safe road share culture. Yet many of us will be aware of incidents and near misses involving delivery cyclists who have broken red lights, who have face timed while they cycled or who have cycled the wrong way down a street. I believe we should consider a form of visible identification such as a car or motorcycle number plate solely for professional delivery cyclists. This would encourage safer cycling and hold those who break the law to account. There is no denying that food delivery cyclists experience their own challenges in terms of theft and their own personal safety but no one should have to fear walking or driving down the streets because of reckless behaviour of any kind. Will the Government legislate for unique identifiers for professional cyclists? By professional cyclists, I mean those who display company branding and who spend their entire working day on our roads.

The Taoiseach

I appreciate the Deputy is being very clear that she is referring here to professional commercial cyclists and not everyday leisure or commuter cyclists. It is something that should be considered and I will speak to the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, about this in the context of our road safety committee. I do not make a commitment either way but it is something to which we can give some consideration.

Deputy Imelda Munster

I would not normally raise an issue such as this and would deal with them myself but I have been left with no option. This is something that is very serious indeed for the residents involved. A section of Cearnóg Brugha in Drogheda and surrounding areas has been left with no water. They are mostly elderly residents but there is also one family with a young baby. As they have a dribble of water from the taps downstairs and nothing upstairs, they cannot heat radiators, they cannot bathe or wash clothing and they cannot even flush the toilet.

They have had no water for three months. Uisce Éireann eventually put in a temporary fix. It lasted about three weeks. They have had no water since the end of October. They have now been told by Uisce Éireann that it will be December. The buck is being passed between Uisce Éireann and Louth County Council but primarily, the matter should be dealt with by Uisce Éireann. If that is its idea of customer service or a duty of care to customers, it is totally unacceptable. Given that elderly people and people with young babies have been told to wait almost five months for water, can the matter be expedited if I forward the details to the Taoiseach or a Minister? It is just not acceptable.

Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy Kieran O'Donnell)

It is very difficult for those residents. If the Deputy sends on the details to me, and the specifics of what is happening there, the Department will take it up with Uisce Éireann specifically. We will look to resolve it for the residents.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Minister of State for his help.

Deputy Cathal Crowe

In recent months, there has been huge recruitment to An Bord Pleanála and cases are starting to move once again. However there is now a trend where people are appealing the residential zoned land tax, RZLT, which becomes a liable taxation payment on 1 January. All those cases are being appealed to An Bord Pleanála and it is clogging up the system. Last week, 146 cases were decided by An Bord Pleanála, of which 79 related to tax. They had nothing to do with building houses or any sort of development, whether schools, hospitals or whatever. It is clogging up half if not more of the weekly case profile. It was 108 cases the week before last and 84 the week before that. Surely, taxation belongs in a whole different realm and not that of planning or appeals to An Bord Pleanála. Is there some way of unclogging that backlog? It will continue every week until we get to 31 December because that is when that tax at a rate of 3% becomes liable on 1 January.

The Taoiseach

If we are talking about the same tax, the liability has been deferred by a year because we appreciate some changes have to be made to it as some anomalies have arisen that were not anticipated. We have given An Bord Pleanála a lot more work to do and there is a lot more building going on in the country. That is great but it means there is even more work for it to do from the private sector as well. Recognising that, it has been provided with lots of additional resources. There is now 15 board members. They can meet in formations of five and have several meetings a day in some cases. There are 300 to 400 posts approved in total. I appreciate they have been given a lot of work to do and it is important they are resourced properly. We are supporting them in that.

Deputy Alan Dillon

Today I am rallying support for a really important project in Castlebar concerning the Order of Malta. It has given stalwart support to our community for the past 80 years. It has applied for €500,000 under the 2023 town and village renewal scheme, which is required to rebuild its new headquarters. It is a project that stands with Mayo County Council and has been submitted to the Department of Rural and Community Development for consideration. Its current headquarters is on the brink of collapse. Securing this funding would be crucial to ensuring the security of its mission of saving lives, touching lives and changing lives. A new headquarters for the Order of Malta would enable more events, improve training and uphold the highest standards guaranteeing that ambulance and critical equipment are accessible even during peak times. While the final say for these funds lies with the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, will the Taoiseach lend his support to this cause? This renewal represents more than just a simple project. It is essential to the health and safety of Castlebar.

The Taoiseach

I really admire the work that the Order of Malta does around the country. I know it has a particular presence in Castlebar. The application would be a matter for the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, and her officials to assess but I can mention it to her and I will do so.

Deputy Michael McNamara

Earlier we discussed the climate emergency and the need to improve biodiversity, the environment etc. Forestry has been posited by the Taoiseach’s Department as a major plank of Government policy, yet up to two weeks ago, only 27 afforestation licences have been granted for the year to date. That is a historic low for the State. Ash dieback is a huge problem. Many owners of plantations which suffer from ash dieback say that people should not believe what the Government says and people should not plant their land because if there is a problem, people will find themselves on their own.

Ministers are saying the problem is interaction with the European Union. That is a mantra that the weakest of Tory Ministers put forward in defence of their failures domestically. Can the Taoiseach think of any area where the gulf between what is promised and what is delivered is so large as in our forestry sector, both in terms of coming up with afforestation permits, licensing the plantation of lands, which we say we need, and allowing owners of dead plantations to cut them down and replant them and to provide some sort of financial support for them in that regard?

The Taoiseach

I agree there is a gap there and we need to give foresters and potential foresters the confidence they need to plan the trees we want them to plant. We are all aware of the problems that have occurred in recent years. Some €10 million has been provided to owners of ash plantations affected by ash dieback. More recently, there has been a new reconstitution and underplanting scheme, RUS, was introduced in 2020. As of 4 October, the native tree area scheme is open for applications. It will allow farmers to plant up to 1 ha of native woodland without the need for a licence or up to 2 ha if they have a suitable watercourse. Farmers will be paid €2,000 per hectare tax free each year for ten years under the scheme. It is a great scheme. You do not need a licence, you just plant a hectare of native forest and get €2,000 a year for ten years.

I encourage all farmers to take that up and plant a small part of their land.