Good afternoon Deputies. I now take Leader's Questions under Standing Order No. 36. I call Deputy McDonald.
Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions
The brazen stroke engineered by the Taoiseach yesterday represents an unprecedented sabotaging of the democracy of the Dáil. This mess is entirely of the Government's making-----
Deputies
Hear, hear.
-----and the chaos that unfolded in this Chamber is a response to the Taoiseach running roughshod over the democratic functioning of the Dáil to suit his own agenda and to protect his grubby deal with Michael Lowry.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
A deal so important to the self-serving political interests of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, that he moves heaven and earth to allow Deputy Lowry and his group of TDs to be both in Government and Opposition at the same time.
Of course, this plan is of mutual benefit. Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael seek to blunt the Opposition and dodge accountability. Michael Lowry and his crew seek a way to gain political influence and high office. The nod, the wink, the stroke politics so associated with Fianna Fáil is not only back, but is the very foundation of the Government.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
A murky deal with a man the Taoiseach once described as "a rogue politician", who he called on to resign his Dáil seat because of the findings of corruption against him, now pulls the strings as king-maker in the Government's coalition and gives the two fingers to the Opposition, to democracy and to the Irish people.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
Yesterday, the Taoiseach took a sledgehammer to the rules and procedures of the Dáil and was assisted in this task by the Ceann Comhairle. Yesterday, the person responsible for safeguarding the Dáil's democratic processes led the charge on behalf of the Government's agenda.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
The Ceann Comhairle bulldozed Dáil rules to get the Government's plan over the line to protect the very deal that put her in her position.
Hear, hear.
A deal brokered by her mentor, Deputy Lowry, who sat smiling and giving the two fingers to the people of Ireland while the chaos unfolded.
A Cheann Comhairle, you took a wrecking ball to Dáil procedure to facilitate this charade.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
You even got a thumbs up from the Government Chief Whip for all your efforts.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
The Ceann Comhairle failed to hold a vote to agree Dáil Business when a vote was called. You dumped promised legislation; and in your rush to ram through the Government motion, you only called a vote on an amendment and not on a substantive motion but still declared the Government motion had been passed.
Hear, hear.
This was farcical, a clear breach of Dáil rules. It was unprecedented and it was unacceptable.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
Your actions yesterday, a Cheann Comhairle, were demonstrably partisan and lacked the partiality and independence demanded of your position.
Hear, hear.
Who convinced the Ceann Comhairle to play her part in this disgraceful charade, or is it simply that bias for the Government is baked into the very deal that secured her position? That is now the question.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
Thaispeáin an Ceann Comhairle nach bhfuil sí neamhchlaonta nó neamhspleách. Thacaigh sí go daingean leis an Rialtas chun an beart aiféalach le Michael Lowry a chosaint. Ní féidir léi leanúint ar aghaidh sa phost. Caithfidh sí imeacht.
A Cheann Comhairle, not alone have you lost the confidence of the entire Opposition, you have in fact decimated it-----
Hear, hear.
-----and the Dáil cannot function properly while you remain in the Chair.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
Above all, the Ceann Comhairle must be impartial, fair and independent. By your actions, you have demonstrated that you are not. Your position is therefore untenable. I ask you to reflect very carefully on this because you need to go.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
Ar dtús báire, ní aontaím in aon chor leis an Teachta. Is dóigh liom nach bhfuil sí ag insint na fírinne in aon chor sa mhéid a dúirt sí faoin Chief Whip.
At the outset I wish to say that before this Dáil was convened, we were told - in no uncertain manner - that we faced a new era of total opposition. That was the Sinn Féin promise. When we met to fulfil our constitutional duty to appoint the Government, we saw the new model of total opposition includes making it impossible to do business unless the minority allows it. It involves refusing to respect basic rules and making extreme statements and false assertions, as we have just had.
Since Dáil Éireann first met, its rules have changed hundreds of times. Many times these rules have been changed without agreement between all parties. We have regularly had votes on changes to parliamentary procedure. The concept of an Opposition veto is found nowhere in the democratic world.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
In this case, what we have is the profoundly antidemocratic demand that non-office holders be kept quiet if they support the Government.
Absolutely not.
More red herrings.
Yesterday, a number of Opposition spokespeople claimed no other country in the world would do this. It is a sad commentary on their approach that they would use such inflated language to make provably false claims.
A basic review of democratic parliaments around the world shows that Ireland may in fact be the only one which refuses to allow Government-supporting TDs to ask priority oral questions.
Excessive executive control.
To give just a few examples; in Germany all non-Ministers have access to oral questions.
Have they not got that here?
It is the same here.
The same is the case in France-----
Deputies, please.
-----Finland and the Netherlands.
Here as well.
Please, Deputies.
I did not interrupt.
Deputies, please allow the Taoiseach to speak.
Self-serving offices.
In Australia, the practice is Government MPs get to ask half of all questions to the Prime Minister. In Sweden, the Prime Minister answers oral questions on alternate months and all MPs can participate.
It is not the same executive control as here.
Deputies, allow the Taoiseach to speak.
Deputy McDonald and Sinn Féin are not defending any democratic principle.
Yes we are.
You are promoting a destructive model of opposition.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
It is one which tries to import into this Chamber the loud hailer politics of the street, which many of you prefer to doing the business of the people and respecting all mandates. We have very serious issues facing this country. Next week, tariffs will be announced on Europe.
You are not concerned about them. You are concerned about getting your deal over the line.
We have a housing crisis-----
Who is to blame for that?
-----yet this is the number one issue for Sinn Féin. It is what you have always done. You brought down the Northern Ireland Assembly when it suited you and the party's self-interest on a number of occasions.
Red herring.
Your stated objective here is to undermine this institution, to undermine the Government, to reduce the Government majority-----
You have done it yourselves.
----and to create mayhem. That is what you are about. Anybody who uses two fingers in this House to another person is wrong and that person should apologise.
He is the person who brought your Government together.
That would apply to Deputy Lowry. Equally, you should face up and acknowledge that any Deputy waving cameras in the face of other Deputies is wrong. That was never a part and parcel of Leinster House.
Talk to your own crew.
Equally, the intimidatory barracking of newly elected TDs, be they Independent or not, simply because they support the Government is a new low that I have never witnessed before in this House.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
Whatever you think of Deputies Heneghan and Toole, they are newly elected Deputies. You have othered them, consistently pressurised them-----
You are defending Deputy Michael Lowry again.
-----and put them under pressure.
I thank the Taoiseach.
Your declaration of a lack of confidence in the Ceann Comhairle is a further instalment in your overall strategy, declared before this Dáil met, of total opposition.
I thank the Taoiseach.
We have a united Opposition.
You will do everything to undermine the institutions of this State, to which you have never been very loyal in your long history.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
I thank the Taoiseach and call Deputy McDonald.
Try as you may wish, Taoiseach, with all the tools of deflection, there was one person and one side of the House that undermined democracy yesterday and it was the Government.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
Yes, you get to defend your rights as a Government. You have assembled your Government between Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Lowry Independents. That is your prerogative - I absolutely recognise that - but you do not get to put together the Opposition.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
That is the point. The most basic rule of the functioning of this place is the distinction between the Government exercising its prerogatives and the Opposition holding it robustly to account. You do not like accountability, Micheál Martin - cry me a river, because you will be held to account. The other basic necessity is the independence and absolute impartiality of the Ceann Comhairle. Very regrettably, yesterday that has been decimated. The Ceann Comhairle no longer enjoys the confidence of the Opposition. I will ask her again to reflect on her position. To be clear, if necessary we will move a no-confidence motion in her.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
I thank the Deputy and call the Taoiseach to respond.
From the very get-go of this Dáil, you have made the life of the Ceann Comhairle impossible.
You did that by pulling a stroke.
I endeavoured to speak yesterday. There has been very little commentary on this but it will have been clear to anyone who watched this on television yesterday. I endeavoured to speak yesterday for three minutes in response to Deputy McDonald.
You could have just accepted her ruling.
Her Deputies, in a co-ordinated, strategic way, determined deliberately to make sure I did not get the opportunity to speak.
You would not answer the questions.
Deputies Doherty and Carthy and so on were orchestrated to shout me down, barrack and not let me have the right to speak. That is what happened yesterday. New precedents have been set in this Dáil by your co-ordinated strategy.
By the Taoiseach and his grubby deal.
I know what you are about. You have been at it for a long time and your tactics are well known. However, they will be met by steel on this side of the House. You are not going to run the House, Deputy McDonald, and Sinn Féin will not run the House.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
You are trying to run the Opposition and that is the crux of the problem here.
I am open to working with people as I have over the past five years on an ongoing basis.
You did not even meet us.
I have been very clear from day one-----
I thank the Taoiseach.
-----about what Sinn Féin has been about in this Dáil. It was manifest on day one.
Taoiseach, the time is up.
What has he got on you?
New precedents have been set. I do not believe this Dáil will ever be the same again-----
Because of what you have done.
-----because of what has transpired over the past few weeks. It will never be the same again.
We move now to Deputy Bacik.
What happened in the Dáil yesterday is without precedent. Yesterday, the Taoiseach and his Government rammed through a scheme to create a sort of new sham Opposition. Let us be clear: the so-called "Other Members' Questions" is a contrivance manufactured purely to placate the Lowry lobby. The regional Independent group, led by Deputy Michael Lowry, is patently stitched into this Government. It helped to construct the programme for Government and some of its members are now Ministers of State. However, it now seems they are to be designated as Opposition in all but name. What does that mean? It means the Standing Orders of our national Parliament have been rearranged in the service of cute hoorism, a grubby stroke driven by the Taoiseach and his Government. In every sense, two fingers have been shown to the Opposition and to the people of this country, because as of yesterday a fundamental principle has been subverted. That is the simple truth that you cannot be in government and in opposition at the same time. The Taoiseach subverted that fundamental principle of the separation of powers.
What happened yesterday is a disgrace. Throughout my career, I have been proud to work constructively and collaboratively across party lines. My colleagues here beside me on the Labour Party benches are the same. This is the Labour Party that I lead. We want to use our voices in the Dáil to represent our communities, to raise the issues that matter to the communities we represent, who are concerned about the housing crisis, the climate catastrophe, disability rights, Trump's threatened tariffs, yes, and of course hideous global conflict. These are the matters we should all be focusing on. That is why we in the Labour Party worked hard over recent weeks, with others, to try to achieve a resolution and to avoid the farce that unfolded yesterday. We tried to work with the Taoiseach and his Fine Gael colleagues to secure a resolution that would be agreeable to Government and Opposition TDs. Indeed, that was in the terms of the agreement made and read out by Hildegarde Naughton in this House on 23 January. Instead of respecting the Opposition's constitutional duty to hold the Government to account, and instead of honouring that agreement to make a compromise, an agreement that was made in good faith, the Taoiseach arrogantly ploughed on. He has undermined basic standards of parliamentary accountability.
This affair has tarnished the Taoiseach and his Government, and now it has tarnished the office of Ceann Comhairle. A Cheann Comhairle, yesterday you deemed the Order of Business passed, despite resounding calls of dissent from the Opposition benches. Without any legitimate democratic basis, you deemed that passed. You did so apparently as part of a prearranged set-up orchestrated with the Government.
A prearranged what?
A Cheann Comhairle, you have a duty to apply the rules fairly and impartially under Standing Orders. I deeply regret to say after what we saw yesterday that I do not believe you applied the rules in that matter. That is why this morning, together with my parliamentary party, we agreed to ask you to reflect on your position over the coming days. If necessary, we will have no option but to table a motion of no confidence in you.
Thank you, Deputy. Your time is up.
I regret that it has come to this.
I will say to the Deputy that the Chief Whip worked extremely hard for over 20 hours with the Whips of other parties to resolve this particular issue.
That is disingenuous.
This is a sham.
By any stretch of the imagination it is stretching credibility to suggest that the resolution put forward by the Chief Whip in any way confers Opposition status on other TDs. I outlined that earlier when I reminded Deputy McDonald that in other parliaments it is a matter of form and norm that non-government deputies and government deputies who are not officeholders get to ask questions. The Deputy wants to deny that. What is the underlying issue here? That question has been asked. The underlying issue here is the formation of the Government.
The underlying issue is Michael Lowry.
Deputies, allow the Taoiseach to speak.
I remember reading the Irish Independent some time ago. Let us be honest - the only group of people who wanted to help to facilitate a Government was the regional Independents.
You could not wait to do a deal with them as the quickest route to office.
You did not even talk to us.
The headline in the newspaper read:
'We'll meet big three, but with no intention of going into government' - Ivana Bacik rules Labour out of coalition.
According to the article, it is recorded in the minutes of the Labour Party's national executive that they "will meet the big three as a courtesy, but with no intention of going into government".
Given the strokes you have pulled, we are glad we did not.
Please.
That is the reality facing the Dáil.
Deflect, deflect, deflect.
The Labour Party had no sincerity about going into government, and neither did the Social Democrats. The regional Independent group wanted a Government formed. That is the bottom line here. There is an obligation to form a Government. Now, may I say-----
Deputies, please.
-----just because people keep making false assertions-----
Such as 40,000 houses.
-----that the Chief Whip never gave a nod?
You pontificate but you never answer the question.
The nod became a thumbs-up.
Sure we saw it.
This is all Sinn Féin-speak, and now Deputy Bacik is parroting it. The Labour Party has tied itself to the hip of Sinn Féin and will regret it.
The Taoiseach has tied himself to Deputy Michael Lowry and will regret it.
I know the Labour Party a long time. I know a lot of ordinary Labour Party supporters who are not happy with the way it has become an appendage to the Sinn Féin Party.
We are around a lot longer than you guys.
Deputies, please.
When Deputy Bacik used the phrase "prearranged"-----
Do not patronise the Labour Party.
-----she was parroting the Sinn Féin false assertion.
It was prearranged.
I do not mind Deputy Bacik having a different view - of course we all have different views and different perspectives - but-----
Are you saying it was not prearranged?
-----she cannot make deliberately false assertions, just generally.
It is not false.
It is not false.
It is false.
It is not false.
There was nothing preconceived. The Ceann Comhairle has a responsibility that the business of the House gets done. The new tactic is this: if we shout loud enough, if we stop everybody on the Government side from talking and if we create mayhem and chaos, the Ceann Comhairle must then adjourn the Dáil and we get our way.
That cannot be the new precedent either but that is what Sinn Féin has been doing from the very start.
Yesterday, I acknowledged that Deputy Bacik stayed quiet at the beginning and allowed me speak and so on. Deputy Kelly broke loose at the end.
Broke loose.
The Deputy could not contain himself any longer. They stood up and joined the new-----
The Taoiseach has lost the run of himself. He is making it worse.
I call Deputy Bacik to respond.
It seems that not only is the Taoiseach becoming increasingly tetchy as Taoiseach, but increasingly patronising.
The Taoiseach is losing the run of himself.
Nobody has ever accused the Labour Party of not being serious. We are a serious party. We were serious about entry into government.
Clean up their mess.
We are the oldest party in the State.
We are a serious party that was serious about seeking to achieve change in Ireland.
Used to be a serious party.
That is what we have always been about. I am proud to lead our party. We parrot nobody.
Yesterday’s events in the Dáil were unprecedented. We witnessed what happened. We are deeply regretful that the Ceann Comhairle’s office was dragged into this. It is with great regret that I expressed the view that the Ceann Comhairle’s position is untenable but let us be clear that this is a mess of the Government’s making, and the Taoiseach in collusion with Michael Lowry. I agree with the Taoiseach on one thing. It was deeply wrong of a Deputy, of Michael Lowry, to give two fingers in the national Parliament. It was deeply wrong and deeply disrespectful. The Taoiseach said it was wrong. I hope the Taoiseach will call on him to apologise. I hope the Ceann Comhairle will call on him to apologise, but what happened yesterday was a farce of the Taoiseach’s making.
I said what Deputy Lowry did was wrong but Deputy Bacik omitted to say what Deputy Paul Murphy did was wrong.
Come on.
Your own Minister did it.
Does Deputy Bacik not remember what Deputy Paul Murphy did to her former leader, Joan Burton? Does the Deputy not remember that?
It is the same thing.
Two wrongs.
These are Deputy Bacik’s new allies. What Deputy Paul Murphy did yesterday in waving phones around was unacceptable behaviour in the Dáil.
That is one event.
Equally unacceptable is the deliberate constant barracking and intimidatory behaviour.
And for a Minister to do it as well.
Deflect it.
I respect the Labour Party but two aspects of Deputy Bacik’s behaviour in this Dáil concern me. The first is the Deputy’s lack of sincerity in terms of the whole government formation matter.
Done deal.
The second is the Deputy’s attitude to people, whether she likes them or disagrees with them, who are elected TDs, particularly newly elected TDs, such as Deputy Toole and Heneghan. The manner in which Deputy Bacik has addressed them, the names the Deputy is using-----
Not Michael Lowry.
The Deputy is refusing to call them by their proper titles and so on. That is a kind of othering I would not have expected from Deputy Bacik in times past.
So you do not use nicknames at all, no?
Yesterday, I asked the Taoiseach to name a single parliament in the world where there is a time slot on the schedule where 100% of the time is given to the Government members of that parliament and he did not answer. Today, the Taoiseach came in with a list of parliaments where government MPs can ask oral questions. That has always been the case in Ireland where Government TDs can ask oral questions. They can ask questions under Questions on Policy or Legislation and under Taoiseach’s Questions as well, and the Government is getting rid of half of those.
A Cheann Comhairle, the role of Ceann Comhairle in defending the democratic processes in this Dáil and the interests of all Members impartially is very important. It is essential that the Ceann Comhairle enjoys the confidence of both Government and Opposition. Clearly, this is no longer the case and you need to reflect on that position.
Yesterday, the mask slipped. The enduring image of the day was Michael Lowry giving the two fingers. A TD, who has been found to be grossly corrupt, laughing it up as the Taoiseach did his bidding sums it all up. The derision and the contempt that is at the heart of this Government was clearly exposed. Michael Lowry was cock-a-hoop, and who can blame him? The Taoiseach had just ripped up more than 100 years of parliamentary procedure for him. The question we all want answered is: why is the Taoiseach jumping through the hoops for Michael Lowry?
I have listened to the Taoiseach demean the concerns about this stitch up. For generations, we have had Governments and Oppositions, each one charged with a distinct duty - one empowered to run the country and the other to hold that power accountable. After yesterday’s debacle, we have a muddying of the waters, an attempt to disguise Government backbenchers as members of the Opposition by bestowing them with the same speaking rights as opposition leaders. The notion that they will use this time to hold the Government to account is laughable. No one buys it, least of all the Taoiseach.
The arrogant dismissal of the public’s concerns is not working. They can see very clearly through the Government’s spin to what is really going on here. What we have is a Government that is drunk on power trying to damage the Opposition’s ability to hold it accountable. That is a serious infringement of the job we were elected to do and a slap in the face of the people who voted for us.
If ever a government needed to be held to account, this one does. It is barely a few months old and its record is already one of failure. The Government is flailing around on housing as the situation deteriorates from disaster to catastrophe. Children with disabilities and their families are being betrayed and abandoned. Pre-election promises, such as enacting the occupied territories Bill, have been kicked to touch. Clearly, it is not only Michael Lowry showing disrespect to the public. Will the Taoiseach come clean and tell us what he promised Michael Lowry in return for his support for this Government?
First of all, from day one this Government has been focused on the issues. I have been focused on the issues-----
How many pieces of legislation did the Government bring forward?
Extra Ministers.
Extra Ministers and extra pay for them. That is it.
-----in terms of housing, disability and the economic challenges facing us and the geopolitical challenges – a war on our Continent that we all want to end on a fair and just basis, an end to the slaughter in Gaza and the violence across the Middle East and the need for a durable ceasefire there. By the way, the Government and Ministers have been going about their work, unlike Deputy Cian O’Callaghan. The Deputy and others in this House, over eight minutes a day for non-Government TDs, 60 of whom will probably get one opportunity a year, are saying that is the equivalent to the Opposition getting time every day. The Deputy’s party gets more time this time as compared to last Dáil. They have chosen to make this the big issue, not the Government side.
You voted to change Standing Orders.
The Chief Whip endeavoured to get a reasonable solution because people are entitled to speak. People are entitled to ask questions as well in our view, irrespective of whether they are a Government TD or not. By the way, Government TDs have been saying this for a long time, in particular with their experience in the last Dáil where groups with two or three TDs get far more mandates than parties with 40 TDs. What has been going on in the Dáil since 2016 has not been proportionate, if people want my honest opinion. There is no proportionality in terms of parties with 30 plus or 40 plus members. We have had two or three people over there trying to dictate this Dáil for a long time. That is over. That is not going to happen anymore. Just get that into your head.
What I will say to Deputy O’Callaghan is this-----
It is all out now. Giving the game away now.
Deputy O’Callaghan made no effort and he has to be honest here. The Deputy made no sincere effort to form a government.
A Deputy
Put the camera on him.
Deputy O’Callaghan trots out the line all of the time, laced with innuendo and suggestion, of "Who has something over you?" It is dark stuff and that is deliberate smearing by innuendo.
Answer the question. What does Lowry have on you?
On the only issue between this Government and the Independents, I will be honest about it. I have a record in this House of supporting stability and formation of Government. I did it in 2016 with confidence and supply.
The crash was a good imitation of stability.
We were involved in negotiating the programme for Government and I did it at a time when the country faced a significant threat from Brexit. We managed to facilitate a government, and no one said we should not have the rights of an Opposition in terms of tabling questions, even though we had negotiating influence on the budgets and so on. That happened because I believe governments should be formed after a general election. That is my motivation. Deputy O’Callaghan did not believe it. Deputy Bacik did not believe it. I do. I take it as a serious responsibility.
The only group that came forward and that wanted to facilitate a majority in this House was the Regional Independent Group. What this is all about-----
I am around long enough to know what this is about. This is not about feigned sort of democrat-----
This is about reducing the majority of this Government from day one.
It is about a deal with Michael Lowry.
Thank you, Taoiseach.
There has been an effort here to undermine this Government from day one. That is what is afoot.
I thank the Taoiseach. I would ask him to get this into his head. I have asked him the question: “What is your deal with Michael Lowry?” Is the Taoiseach saying he made no deal with Michael Lowry to support the Government? Is that what he is saying? Is he saying there was no deal?
I will come back-----
Was there no deal at all? Is that what the Taoiseach is saying? Is he saying he made no deal with Michael Lowry about these speaking rights at any stage, that there were no agreements, that he has done this off his own bat and that this is entirely his own initiative even though from day one Michael Lowry was saying that he was going to get these special speaking rights that Opposition leaders get?
From day one he was saying that. How was he able to say that with such confidence if there was no deal with the Taoiseach? How come if there was no deal with the Taoiseach he has gone and fought tooth and nail to deliver on what he was saying he was going to get from day one? Does you really think that is credible, that you have gone to all this effort just because you have no deal, apparently, with Michael Lowry and you gave him no commitments?
Sorry, the bottom line is the deal was the formation of Government in terms of the programme for Government. The now Minister of State, Deputy Marian Harkin, went through the programme for Government line by line. Deputy Seán Canney, now Minister of State – all the independent group – went through the programme for Government. Deputy Michael Healy-Rae – Minister of State - went through the programme for Government. Deputy Danny Healy-Rae went through the programme for Government. That was the issue.
The increase in carbon taxes.
Independent Ireland, for example, was not happy with aspects of the programme for Government and we were not prepared to accept some of the issues it wanted us to deal with. Independent Ireland actually had a decent discussion with us but there were some demands that we were not prepared to concede. But the Regional Independent Group went through it line by line. It was policy based but the Deputy will never accept that. He will just throw out the innuendo and the smear. “The deal.” It is great to be able to say it.
Was there a deal on speaking time?
The bottom line is ----
Was there a deal?
On speaking time, no. And by the way, the Regional Independent Group would, I would say, prefer a far different arrangement than what is being proposed by the Chief Whip.
They tried it and they did not get it.
In respect of what by any yard stick ----
They tried it at the start and then you came up with this concoction.
----it is a very modest rebalancing -----
Thank you, Taoiseach.
-----where you get eight minutes on a Wednesday, eight minutes on a Thursday.
It has cut Taoiseach's Questions in half.
Thank you, Taoiseach. Time is up.
It is a joke.
I now move to Deputy Ruth Coppinger.
Today in my Leaders’ Questions, I wanted to raise the absolutely desperate situation in Palestine, the Government’s failure to even meet the UN special rapporteur in Leinster House last week and issues such as the special needs crisis, the health workers and so many other issues but today we have to come back to this again because of what happened yesterday.
Comments have been made about the unpleasantness of the protest yesterday. I even heard some claims of misogyny which I found extremely cynical from one of the most male-dominated governments on the planet.
Hear, hear.
It strikes me that the Ceann Comhairle is a woman who knows her own mind and took a decision yesterday, unfortunately, to co-operate with what was a very co-ordinated move not to allow Order of Business properly, to jettison Questions on Promised Legislation and so on. However, I want to move the focus back on the Taoiseach because he knew that these proposals were opposed by the Opposition and he took a decision to foist them without debate yesterday. What did he think was going to happen? Does he think any of this would have happened if there had been a debate yesterday?
Do not forget that in January Deputy Martin was very anxious to get himself elected as Taoiseach and his party stood over there and made a promise to the Dáil that there would be consensus. Nothing would happen without consensus. He broke that promise like we have seen him break promises about the housing figures, on disability funding, free HRT and all the things that were promised before the election.
It is important to bring home for the general public what this is actually about. This is the Government removing itself more and more from being challenged in a real way. Journalists are saying the bombs in Gaza are more important than what has happened. Who do you think is going to question the Taoiseach more about the bombs in Gaza?
Exactly.
Hear, hear.
Is it the Lowry lackies, the Government, or people who actually care about the Palestine solidarity movement? That is who. Who is more likely to really interrogate the Government on a whole range of issues?
This is the Government preparing itself for unpopular decisions that it will have to take on water charges, cost of living, the triple lock, militarisation but today and next Wednesday, instead of Taoiseach’s questions, we will have Michael Lowry questioning the Taoiseach. Michael Lowry, I want to remind the Taoiseach, is the character he is doing all this for, who was found to be profoundly corrupt by a tribunal in a breathtaking fashion. Does the Taoiseach have any qualms whatever doing business with Michael Lowry? This is someone who gave two fingers to the public yesterday and then went and gaslit the population that he did not actually done it. Someone who can lie at the drop of a hat like that – has the Taoiseach any qualms at all about doing business with him?
This Government is becoming very good at gaslighting. It is reciting a mantra of “eight minutes”. Why would the Taoiseach die on a ditch over eight minutes?
Hear, hear.
He is saying we are making a mountain out of a molehill. This is about him cutting the Opposition’s rights and entitlements to interrogate him.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
First, I stand over the Government’s record on Gaza. I do not accept the Deputy’s criticism on that.
That is why you do not want to be questioned by the Opposition.
We have been very clear in our condemnation of Israeli violence in Gaza-----
No, you have not.
What about the Occupied Territories Bill?
-----and equally of our condemnation of Hamas's atrocity on 7 October, something which the Deputy and her colleagues have never condemned which I think is a shame and a stain on you that you have never condemned what was an appalling slaughter of the innocents. It is noticeable that you have always refused to do that.
Look at this morning. We have had Leaders’ Questions from whom? From Deputies McDonald, Bacik, Deputy Coppinger herself, Deputy O’Callaghan and others.
Yes. The Opposition.
The Opposition. That is what Leaders' Questions is supposed to be.
You could have had Michael Lowry in there as well. Would he like the Tánaiste to ask a question?
The public will see all of this over the coming weeks. This is feigned outrage. It is very modest, the Deputy is correct. The Deputy asked a question. I am not dying in any ditch. I think it is a reasonable, balanced solution which took about 20 hours.
I am not sure about that.
By the way, the commitment of the former Chief Whip was to engage fully with the Dáil reform committee and to work to secure an agreement as soon as possible that was acceptable to the Government and Opposition. Not just Opposition but to the Government as well-----
And Opposition.
-----as regards formation of technical groups and the rights of unaligned Members.
You got it right for one party but not the other.
You got 50% there.
I have said the precedents that have been set by the Opposition of this Dáil will be very hard to overturn in future Dáileanna.
Like what?
Explain that.
I think this situation is a new departure. I will say why because the Deputies are going through the various procedures which a Ceann Comhairle was meant to do. The Ceann Comhairle, in my view, repeatedly asked Sinn Féin to table its amendment and it refused to do so.
They did not.
I was there; I witnessed it. Four times. The point I am making is this. If it is the tactic-----
Go away with you.
That is not true.
A Deputy
Bullshit.
I was here yesterday and I endeavoured to respond to Deputy McDonald and, in an organised manner, the Sinn Féin Deputies in particular conspired to make sure that my voice could not be heard. The same thing happened to the Ceann Comhairle by any objective observation.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
The Ceann Comhairle stood up on a number of occasions. All of you were barracking, shouting, intimidatory behaviour, aggression. Deputy Doherty - there was naked aggression from you in your approach and posture.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
That is out of order.
Shame on you.
That is what I witnessed yesterday. It is form for you, too, by the way.
That is out of order.
Play the man, Micheál. Play the man. What you did was a disgrace and you know it.
Yes. An absolute disgrace.
That is very regrettable-----
Deputies, please.
-----in my view and it is a precedent that has been set. It cannot be opposition by veto. This House cannot be run on the basis that if the Ceann Comhairle of the day, whatever Ceann Comhairle -----
You cannot be in Government and Opposition.
Is there any chance of answering the question about Michael Lowry?
-----does not agree with the Opposition's perspective or approach then the Ceann Comhairle loses the confidence of the Opposition.
That is not correct. That is nonsense.
That is utter nonsense.
That is nonsense.
This is not a normal Dáil. That is the precedent that is being set. I saw yesterday Sinn Féin in particular endeavouring to prevent procedures from being implemented, processed and properly followed through.
Thank you, Taoiseach. Deputy Coppinger to respond.
It is a grubby deal.
What about our amendment?
Once again, the Taoiseach deflects completely -----
Hear, hear.
-----and does not answer the question about Michael Lowry and doing business with him. Michael Lowry who, as I said, was found by a tribunal to have received payments in the order of at least £180,000 from somebody he gave a mobile phone licence to and who is now a multi billionaire. You do not get more corrupt than that and the Taoiseach has no qualms.
Hear, hear.
Taoiseach's questions is being halved.
Hundreds of Taoiseach's questions will not be asked. For example, personally, in that slot, I have raised repeal when nobody else in this Dáil was interested. I raised trans healthcare and many other topics that there is no way any of the Taoiseach's backbenchers will ask him about. We heard a lot about the terrible plight of the lonely backbencher. My heart was bleeding until I remembered that these backbenchers have direct access and an inside track to Ministers. They frequently organise meetings in constituencies with Ministers to which they do not invite Opposition TDs.
Some of us might like to raise matters in the Chamber.
They are representing their constituents.
There is this idea that they are in this terrible position. They can speak at any time should they choose to.
The Deputy's time is up.
I want to finish by saying this is in line with anti-democratic measures that parliaments are taking across Europe. They are using their majorities to cut across the right to protest and democratic rights. They are doing it in the UK today cutting welfare rights-----
Thank you. Time is up Deputy. Taoiseach to respond.
The Ministers of State, Deputies Harkin, Grealish and Canney, and Deputies Toole, Heneghan, Nolan and McGrath - who have voted against the Government by the way-----
Do not forget Deputy Lowry.
Thick and thin.
Yes, and Deputy Lowry. I will just make the point that the only name that comes from you is Deputy Lowry, not the others. There is a problem there.
Because he is the ringleader, he was the negotiator.
He is the kingmaker.
We need as a Dáil to respect the mandate of every Deputy in this House.
You do not respect us.
What I have witnessed over the last while is a very deliberate attempt to undermine the rights of certain Independents.
By you.
There are other Independents, by the way. Other Independents need to be facilitated as well, in my view. That was part of what was meant to be in the facilitation of non-aligned TDs. By the way, many Opposition TDs come to meet me on different issues or they will raise issues with me. I will always try to respond, as do Ministers.
You have not responded to our letter.
Michael Lowry, the question I asked?
We have always had that tradition in the House where we try to respond to issues that people will raise with us. I respect the mandate. People are elected here. Again I come back to this. The most fundamental obligation after a general election is to form a Government. I take that seriously, along with the Tánaiste.
You said that.
Thank you Taoiseach, time is up.
The Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael parties were short the requisite majority to form a Government that could last four to five years. That is the genesis of this in terms of the Regional Independents Group wanting to co-operate----
Thank you, Taoiseach.
It is the deal that was done. That is the genesis there.