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JOINT COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE AND FOOD debate -
Wednesday, 25 Feb 2004

Section 17A of the Diseases of Animal Act 1996: Motion

The minutes for the meeting of 18 February 2004 have been circulated. Are they agreed? Agreed.

The following motion has been referred to the joint committee by Dáil Éireann and Seanad Éireann:

That Dáil Éireann resolve that section 17A (inserted by section 2 of the Diseases of Animals (Amendment) Act, 2001, (No. 3 of 2001) of the Diseases of Animals Act, 1966, (No. 6 of 1966) shall continue in force for the period ending on 8 March 2005.

The motion has also been referred to us by the Seanad. A note on this has been circulated.

I welcome the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Walsh.

The issue we are dealing with today relates to resolutions before both Houses of the Oireachtas seeking approval for the continuation of section 17A of the Diseases of Animals Act 1966 for a further 12 months. This section was inserted into that Act by section 2(1) of the Diseases of Animals (Amendment) Act 2001, which was passed into law on 9 March 2001. Section 2(2) (a) of this Act provided that section 17A would remain in force for 12 months from the date of its passing. However, section 2(2)(b) provides that section 17A may be continued by resolution of each House of the Oireachtas, passed before its expiry, for such further period as is expressed in the resolution. In 2002 and 2003, both Houses agreed to extend section 17A to 8 March 2003 and 8 March 2004 respectively. I now seek the agreement of both Houses for the necessary resolutions to extend the section for a further 12 months.

Agriculture is a most important activity in this country. The economic and social well-being of many thousands of people throughout Ireland is directly or indirectly dependent upon it. Livestock and poultry farming are key components of our agricultural sector and the health status of our cattle, sheep, pigs, poultry and other farm animals is of critical importance. The events of 2001 provided ample illustration of this. When addressing the committee in early 2003, I reminded members of the fact that an independent economic analysis undertaken after the foot and mouth disease, FMD, crisis of 2001 found that had there been a more widespread outbreak here, the effect could have been to reduce GDP by between €1 billion and €5.6 billion. Job losses would have ranged from 550, in a best-case scenario of a 3-month export ban on animals and certain agricultural products, to over 12,000 in the case of a 24-month ban. These effects would have been compounded by longer-term damage to the reputation of the Irish agri-food sector, which is valued at €9 billion annually.

The report also indicated that there would have been additional and significant negative implications for the tourism sector and the agri-tourist related industry in particular. This serves to illustrate the consequences of inability or failure to deal effectively with serious animal disease outbreaks. Foot and mouth disease is not the only threat.

Since 2001, we have witnessed outbreaks in other countries of diseases affecting animals and poultry which have the potential to cause enormous losses and damage to the sectors concerned, and to other countries if such disease outbreaks were to spread. The most recent such examples are the outbreaks of avian influenza in the Far East and now in the US. We live in a world in which increased mobility and ever freer trade, notwithstanding the great benefits they confer, have the potential to bring diseases of this kind in our direction, thereby exposing our agricultural sector, our economy and society to the risk of losses and damage on a major scale.

There will always be those who for personal financial gain are prepared to put the livelihoods of others at risk by engaging in criminal activity in regard to farm animals. It is therefore imperative that my Department is fully equipped with the powers necessary to act immediately and with maximum effect where action is required to deal with any threat to the disease status of our national flocks and herds. We can never say that we will not again be confronted with a serious animal disease outbreak, nor can we predict when we might be presented with such a challenge, in all probability with little or no notice. People may think that avian influenza in the Far East or North America is of little consequence. However, 50% of day old chicks coming into the European Union, including Ireland, come from America. A disease outbreak in any of those locations has immediate consequences for Ireland.

In that context and despite the powers which already existed under the Diseases of Animals Act 1966, I brought before both Houses of the Oireachtas in March 2001 proposals to amend that Act to improve the State's capacity to deal with animal disease issues generally. In the context of 2001, with an ongoing foot and mouth disease crisis, such proposals had a particular immediacy. On foot of such proposals, the Oireachtas agreed to enact the Disease of Animals (Amendment) Act 2001, which added a number of stringent measures to the Diseases of Animals Act 1966, including section 17A. This is the section which I ask the Oireachtas to renew for a 12-month period.

Section 17A provides for the appointment of authorised officers by the Minister and confers extensive powers on them in cases of reasonable suspicion that an animal disease is or may be present or that an offence is being or may be committed under the 1966 Act or EU rules. It is important to stress that the provisions of section 17A do not relate solely to foot and mouth disease but are applicable to other animal diseases covered by the Act. Under the provisions of section 17A, authorised officers may inter alia enter on and search land or premises, stop and search persons or vehicles and seize, detain, mark or examine an animal, animal product, fodder, litter or vehicle. In the case of entry to a private dwelling a search warrant is required. An authorised officer is empowered to require a person to produce documents and give information.

Section 17A also provides that an authorised officer may dispose of animals, animal products, fodder or litter. Compensation is not provided for in section 17A on the basis that where such losses result, either directly or indirectly, from breaches of the Diseases of Animals Acts or other wrongdoing, the taxpayer should not have to pick up the tab for such losses. Section 17A also provides for penalties for obstruction or non-co-operation with an authorised officer.

It was appropriate, given the wide-ranging powers conferred by section 17A, that the Houses of the Oireachtas should have the opportunity to re-examine them at appropriate intervals. Accordingly, the Government proposed an amendment to the 2001 Bill to allow the Houses of the Oireachtas to review section 17A after 12 months. The Oireachtas has on two previous occasions agreed to renew the section, for a 12-month period in each case.

I am pleased that in all likelihood this will be the last occasion on which I will request an extension of 12 months because I remind the committee that the general scheme of an animal health bill has been approved by the Government. Drafting of the Bill is at an advanced stage. My objective is to produce updated and consolidated legislation which will retain many of the aspects of the 1966 and 2001 Acts but which will also contain additional features. It is my intention that the Bill, subject to the agreement of the Oireachtas, will subsume the provisions along the lines of section 17A of the existing Act, which is the subject of our deliberations today.

I stress to the committee that it is essential that we remain prepared to tackle and defeat any disease threat which emerges. The time and circumstances are not right for discarding any of the legislative armoury we have and which has served us well. I firmly believe that the powers contained in section 17A of the Diseases of Animals Act continue to be necessary and should be retained for a further period of 12 months and I am accordingly asking the committee for its support.

I thank the Minister for giving the committee the background information on this very important matter for the Irish farming community and also for Irish industry. The Minister's description and the details of section 17A have highlighted the very extensive powers of the inspectorate. This has been a matter of some concern and is the issue which I wish to raise with the Minister today.

The powers are to detain and mark any animal, animal product, fodder, litter, etc. There is a requirement that inspectors possess a warrant before entering a private dwelling. These are very strong and extensive powers granted to this inspectorate. There have been complaints and I ask the Minister to say if there is a code of practice and, if not, when he expects one to be in place to take account of the activities of the inspectors? There has to be an accountability for the inspectors as well as for those being inspected. I accept that there may well be a need for inspection and monitoring but there has to be reasonable behaviour on both sides.

The message I have received from some people is that it is an intimidating and alarming experience for them to have somebody enter their premises who technically has the right to look for all this information. There is a need for each side in this debate to know exactly what is happening. Will the Minister say if any sanctions apply to inspectors who might in any way be perceived to step outside the line being set for them?What redress if any would a farmer have whose premises were being inspected if the behaviour or the intrusion of the inspectorate was considered to be inappropriate?

I fully accept the ongoing concerns and risks because we are in a global environment with regard to movement of food, food products and animals. Does the Minister foresee a need for further extension of this legislation? The foot and mouth crisis was clearly a wake-up call for everybody. The most recent outbreak of avian flu which now seems to have spread to the United States is a continuing call to us to be very aware of what is happening internationally. On that basis, will this legislation need to be enhanced or extended beyond the current year?

Those on our side of the House will be supporting the Minister on this issue. I wish to raise a few issues. Like Deputy Upton I regard it a significant invasion when the inspectorsgo in. The inspectors can enter a private house and at times they can be very high-handed, as demonstrated in the past. People are often afraid. The Department of Agriculture and Food was not behind the door in the past when it came to being high-handed. I ask the Minister for an assurance on this important aspect. I have heard of instances where inspectors have treated people with less than the greatest courtesy.

The Minister stated that he is planning to introduce an animal health Bill. Will he say what additional features are planned for this Bill? Will the Minister clarify whether there will be a cost factor for farmers? There is a general concern with all the levies and deductions from dairy and beef farmers. I support the provisions in general.

I thank the Minister for his presentation. Drastic measures were required during the foot and mouth crisis in order to protect the industry. All Deputies supported those measures and in subsequent years we have been supportive of the provisions of section 17A.

I have strong reservations regarding parts of the section, particularly where it empowers authorised officers to dispose of animals, animal produce, food and litter. I am particularly concerned about indirect losses. A person may be indirectly in breach of the Diseases of Animals Act without having full or any knowledge of that. I am very concerned that there is no compensation if their animals, produce, fodder or litter is disposed of. Will the Minister clarify whether the authorised officers must have proof that there has been a wrong committed, whether proof is required that the animals need to be disposed of for whatever reason and whether there is access to the courts for the landowner or owner of the animals? While the measures are necessary in the immediate term I have strong reservations about the powers given to authorised officers. Innocent people could be caught up in this through indirect involvement, which is a major concern. Somebody who is totally innocent and indirectly involved has no route to compensation.

I welcome the Minister and his colleagues, and I thank him for his presentation. I support the measures taken by him. Given the changing face of farming, decoupling and the European scene, it is more important than ever to protect our livelihood in agriculture and protect our country from disease. We were just getting over the foot and mouth disease problem when the new avian flu hit. This shows the global nature of farming now. Yesterday the American scene was shown to be slightly contaminated.

It appears this disease can spread to other animals, which is very frightening, and all precautions must be taken to preserve our meat industry. I compliment the Minister on what he has done in the past. The restrictions are tough on farmers, but it is important to protect our industry and I am glad to hear the Minister say this may well be the last time section 17A is brought to the committee.

I welcome the Minister again to address this very serious issue. It is important that we record the effort made not just by the farming community and the Department following the outbreak of the disease but by the general public to safeguard the agricultural industry.

Some of the proposals here are very serious, and maybe have to be. Farmers in those situations generally suffer. Some farmers unwittingly had dealings with people involved in the spread of disease and have suffered extreme hardship as a result. Will the Minister ask his inspectorate to take a very serious but lenient look at individual cases. They act as judge and jury in some cases, and a scheme should be built in to provide a faster way of dealing with people who are penalised unnecessarily or, at the end of the day, proven guilty. There should be resources within this Bill so that people can seek redress immediately.

Farming is very volatile, and if farmers lose out on their premiums or rights they can go out of business within a period of months. Some farmers have suffered as a result of these measures, and we have had instances of widespread animal depopulation involving people who were not really involved in the spread of disease. There should be redress in such cases. Does the Minister plan to reverse the disease levies that were imposed as a result of acts done years ago, as he agreed in the programme for Government? They were reduced to some extent——

That has nothing to do with this discussion. There will be another time and place for that.

We are talking about the disease levies legislation, and it is very important that——

I ask you, Senator, to refer to what we are here for.

—— that the levies be reduced as promised.

I too welcome the Minister and his officials. There are still rackets going on. Cattle were found a few weeks ago in Northern Ireland that had originally been stolen at Ennis mart and various other places. Unfortunately, those laws must be in place and officers must have that power.

I join everybody else in extending a welcome to the Minister and his Department officials. I support the continuance of the legislation. The foot and mouth disease crisis that hit our country has begun to fade in memory but aspects of animal disease around the world should keep us on our toes. The Minister had a bare desk when foot and mouth disease came in, and this legislation was a reaction to that crisis. Are the Minister and his Department being pro-active to meet any future challenges?

When meat of any source comes from outside into the EU, is there sufficient governance and legislation to control what is happening? Since this is an island, is an all-island approach continuing in the control of disease? I said then, and say it now that this is important, and I hope that is the opinion of the Minister and the Department staff.

I thank all of the members who contributed to this debate on section 17A. This is the last time I will ask for an extension of this because I have had the heads approved by Government of a general Bill called the animal health Bill. It is being prepared in the draftsman's office. I cannot say for sure when it will be finalised but I hope it will be in this calendar year, thus obviating the need for bringing this section back to the committee again.

Deputy Upton asked specifically if we had a code of practice on authorised officers, and a number of other committee members asked about what sanctions or redress we would have in case authorised officers used undue pressure in any given situation. First, we have a code of practice, and I organise through the committee secretariat for that to be circulated to the members. In any given situation regarding people's private property a search warrant is necessary. In regard to sanctions, people have their civil rights and the civil courts in which to seek redress if necessary. I would expect no further requests for an extension, and I will circulate the code of practice.

Deputy Tom Hayes talked about the sometimes heavy-handed activities of some authorised officers. The vast majority of farmers go about their business in a very serious and professional way. They have a high regard for bio-security on their farms and take great care going to marts or in buying in animals and so on. It is only in a minute section of the farming community that one has, as Deputy Carty said, a racket going on. However, we need to protect our farming community. It is an extremely important part of our economy. The livelihoods of what are mainly family farms depend on it. It is no joke and is quite traumatic if a farming enterprise is wiped out because of disease. There is an onus on us as legislators to make sure we do what we can to protect farmers from the type of activity we found during the foot and mouth disease outbreak and again in recent weeks, with animals being stolen in this part of the island and ending up in Northern Ireland. We have a code of practice to ensure officers behave in a humane way and do not go beyond their brief.

Deputy Ferris asked about the disposal of animals. If animals have disease they are disposed of in the usual way for diseased animals. We ensure that the disease is confirmed by testing prior to disposal. If animals have been moved illegally they are disposed of in a factory in the usual way.

A number of Deputies referred to the importance of assurance in protecting the vast majority of people in rural Ireland, particularly farmers, in regard to animal disease. I can give that assurance and the further assurance that departmental officers operate under the code of practice guidelines.

We must remember that we have some 20 million susceptible animals in Ireland between cattle, sheep and pigs. With a population of less than 4 million, this is a high ratio relative to other countries. The poultry industry is also important.

We are vulnerable to highly contagious diseases; classical swine fever, Johne's disease, Newcastle disease, avian influenza and foot and mouth disease due to the level of trade that is conducted between different parts of the world. Animals, animal products, poultry and poultry products are imported here. I referred earlier to day old chicks, which some of us remember rearing under infra-red lamps in kitchens. At least we provided our own. Nowadays, 50% of chicks are imported from the United States. Embryos are imported from Canada and the southern hemisphere. We must be extremely careful.

I am disappointed with the level of Johne's disease here. A few years ago it was the fashion to import animals from Holland or Denmark with little regard for the disease implications in cases where a herd went down. Johne's disease, which is a serious matter, was imported here. In order to protect farmers we have to be extremely careful with animals and poultry. This is a reasonable Bill which updates the 1966 Act. It consolidates existing legislation and identifies and categorises some newer diseases. The present strain of avian influenza is a highly contagious pathogenic disease. Such a disease is a new feature of the legislation. I thank the committee for its constructive attitude to this section and look forward to discussing the Bill in its entirety with the committee in the next few months.

Is the Minister satisfied with the controls in place at border inspection posts for the import of food products or live animals?

I asked the Minister a question about a person who was involved in breaching the regulations through no fault of his own. There is a reference to compensation not being provided in such a case, which is difficult to comprehend in the case of a herd owner who was an innocent party, but whose stock was put down.

There is more to this from the point of view of farmers than compensation. Is there co-operation between the Department of Health and Children and the Department of Social and Family Affairs? This is a traumatic area and, in many cases, farm families need help in the form of counselling. On previous occasions when I asked this question I was told it was a matter for other Departments. Does the Minister consult other Departments in order to help alleviate the plight of farmers and the local community when something like this occurs?

In response to Deputy Upton's question on border inspection posts, responsibility for ensuring protection at border inspection posts is a matter for the food and veterinary office which is based in Grange. I have been assured it has adequate staff to do that, even though there is a question mark over the number of staff. I asked Dr. Gaynor who is head of that office to make sure it has the resources to provide adequate protection at entry points to the country.

Senator Callanan asked for assurance that we have an all-island attitude to animal disease. We have had useful interaction between veterinary authorities here and in the North. We have a relatively small number of ports of entry. Belfast is the main one in the North and we do not have more than three or four here. Our island status should give us an advantage in ensuring we are protected. It is far more difficult for countries with a land frontier. I accept the point in regard to inspection posts; it is critical that we keep them properly policed.

On Deputy Coonan's point, there is interaction. A number of inter-agency committees ensure we work with other Departments on matters of this nature.

Deputy Ferris raised the issue of somebody being innocently caught up in a breach of regulations. It that is the case, they have the resources of the civil powers in the State to seek redress. I am satisfied that prima facie evidence is required. There needs to be more than a reasonable suspicion before authorised officers carry out searches, detain animals and so on. They are responsible people and under the Department’s code of practice they are obliged to behave in a responsible way.

We must bear in mind the value of farmer's assets, the need for bio-security and to protect against unauthorised and irresponsible behaviour. Farmers operate to the best of their ability in looking after their herds. We have seen the devastation that can be caused by dealers bringing in brucellosis to an area. The only compensation provided to people in those circumstances is the normal compensation. Neighbours and people dealing in livestock and poultry should have regard to the consequences of any weakness in the system that can cause so much trauma and devastation. People are prevented from delivering milk to creameries in the case of disease outbreak. They literally have to pour it down the drain until the disease is eradicated. A certain period of time must elapse before they can restock and get back into business. We are dealing with a pretty serious matter and I suggest strongly that we continue with section 17A until such time as the overall Bill is available, which should be in the next few months.

On behalf of the committee, I thank the Minister and his officials for attending.

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