I welcome Mr. Francis Lyons from Largo Food and Mr. P. J. Brigdale from Tayto, representing the Snack Food Council, who are here to make a presentation on the contribution of the savoury snack food category to the dietary intake of Irish children. They are accompanied by Mr. Gerry Murphy, Mr. Chris Brownlow and Ms Nuala Collins. I welcome all these visitors today. Mr. Lyons and Mr. Brigdale will make the presentation and this will be followed by a question and answer session.
Snack Food Council: Presentation.
Mr. Francis Lyons
I thank the Chairman for receiving us and affording the Snack Food Council an opportunity to present some of the steps it has taken to date. I will outline the make-up of the council and its work, and try to bring some perspective to the issues we will discuss. Mr. Brigdale will share the independent research analysing the contribution of our category to the dietary intake of Irish children. Our goal is to highlight the fact that as a category our contribution to children's dietary intake is smaller than perceived. Our industry makes an important contribution to the economy and agriculture.
The Snack Food Council covers potato crisps, popcorn and nuts. The council is part of the Snack Food Association, which is affiliated to the Food and Drink Industry Ireland, FDII. The members of the association include Tayto, Walkers, Largo Food, which makes Hunky Dorys, and Robert Roberts, which distributes KP, Hula Hoops and similar products. As responsible manufacturers we believe that all foods eaten in moderation can play a part in a balanced diet — "moderation" and "balanced diet" are the key words. This is a question of the relationship between energy in and energy out. If too much energy is taken in and too little is spent it, gives rise to obesity. Salt is a separate issue.
Like all food manufacturers we have a contribution and an obligation to work towards new product development and reformulation that will help to reduce obesity. That is the council's aim. The overall food industry in Ireland is worth approximately €7 billion. We make up 3% of that, equivalent to €220 million. Our contribution to dealing with obesity is commensurate with that percentage.
In terms of the economy, we employ directly 1,000 people and purchase approximately €7 million worth of potatoes, approximately 40,000 tonnes, which represents 8% of the total Irish grown potato crop or 12% of the total potato-growing acreage in Ireland. We are the last potato processors left in the country. Everything else is either washed or peeled. Some of that is exported to Northern Ireland.
Media reports give the impression that crisps are bad for one. In simple terms a crisp comprises a potato, peeled, sliced and cooked in sunflower oil, which is one of the best oils, with flavour sprinkled on. It is then put into a bag. There is no more to the process. A crisp contains carbohydrates, fat, protein, vitamins E and C, fibre and potassium. We provide an option for the consumer. In any supermarket one will find the main range of crisps and the "better for you" brand choice, which is lower in fat. Some 70% of the crisp is cooked in oil and the last 30% in steam, helping to reduce the fat level. There are also lower-salt options. It can be confusing for the consumer to understand what exactly is in the product. We are already at group 2 nutrition stage. This informs the consumer not alone what the fat content of the crisp is but the type.
How much are crisp manufacturers contributing to the health and wellness issue? The average consumed pack size of crisps is 25 g. This contains half the fat in a Danish pastry and one third of the saturated fat in a bar of chocolate. Three plain biscuits have the same amount of calories as a bag of crisps but four times the saturated fat. A slice of bread contains the same amount of salt as a packet of crisps. When one puts a crisp into one's mouth, the salt taste makes a big impact. The reason is that the potato is cooked and sealed and the sprinkling lies on the outside of the product, which is what hits one's tongue. With bread, the salt is introduced in the base production and then baked through. A standard pot of yogurt has the same number of calories as a standard packet of crisps.
As to how many packets of crisps people are eating, we commissioned independent research.
Mr. P. J. Brigdale
We not only want to highlight the contribution of crisp manufacturers to the economy, industry and farmers. One in 12 potatoes is purchased by our industry. We also want to clear up any misconceptions there may be about our contribution to the broader health and wellness debate. A copy of this presentation has already been given to the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Seán Power; the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Coughlan, and the food division of her Department. We are not informing the committee of anything that has not already been relayed elsewhere.
The Irish Universities Nutrition Alliance children's food survey 2005 did not emanate from us. It was commissioned by the Department of Agriculture and Food in conjunction with the Food Safety Authority of Ireland. The results are independent of our industry. The survey focusses on the dietary intake of children from five years to 12.
On average, children consume half a packet of crisps a day, 13 g of our products. Those who consume many of our products, as defined by the survey, eat one packet of crisps a day, 25 g of our product. Low consumers eat one and a half packs a week. Some 14% of all children do not consume our products.
How does this contribute to fat, saturated fat and sodium intake? Up to 5% of a child's energy intake comes from our products. Our products contribute 7% of fat, 6% of saturated fat and 5% of sodium intake. Our unit concluded that our industry made a small contribution to the daily intake of these elements. That is probably not what one might think from reading newspapers. The survey also pointed out how savoury snack intake had increased but there was no impact on the quality of people's diets. Our products are not displacing anybody else's. According to the research, we are not a major contributor to the fat, saturated fat or sodium intake or displacing other products. The conclusion was drawn that high consumers were getting the key vitamins and minerals at or above recommended daily allowance levels.
There is no difference in body mass index measures between those who eat our products and those who do not. Our products are not a major contributor to the health and wellness debate. At the same time, we are a contributor to agriculture and the farming sector. When non-consumers, low, medium and high consumers of snacks were compared, no significant differences emerged in body mass index, weight circumference or body weight.
We have not sat on our laurels. Levels of fat and saturated fat in our products were reduced before these reports were commissioned. Saturated fat levels have been reduced by up to 70%. We have agreed with the Food Safety Authority of Ireland to reduce salt levels. By 2005 salt levels in potato crisps had been reduced by 20%, having already been reduced by 25%. Most crisp manufacturers now cook their products in sunflower oil, high-oleic sunflower oil or corn oil, which contains little or no cholesterol and is low in saturated fat. From some elements of the media, one might think our products were heavy in these elements. They are not and we have worked to reduce these levels.
Our view on portion size is that it is about choice. We give the consumer choice from 16 g bags to sharing bags of 200 g. The most prevalent bag size is 25 g. That is the most prevalent size on the market; virtually half of all bags are somewhere between 20 g and 30 g. Upsizing and convincing consumers to eat ever more of a product are not issues for us in the industry.
Regarding marketing to children, there are no vending machines in primary schools. In secondary schools there is a code of practice to ensure healthier options and products that are better for one are included in any vending machine containing our goods. We are not major advertisers. Some 3.3% of all food advertisements and 1% of television advertisements are represented by our category. As an industry and council, we do not advertise during children's programmes shown before the 6 p.m. watershed. With the FDII and the Advertising Standards Authority of Ireland, we are drafting guidelines on the marketing and promotion of goods to children. They have been agreed but not yet fully adopted, although that is simply a matter of time.
The point that we seek to make is that all goods, including ours, can be part of a balanced diet if eaten in moderation. Both sides are important to the energy balance. One might think it is all a matter of energy intake and what we eat, but although one must eat less to be healthy and well, one must also move more. Although important to the economy, when it comes to issues concerning obesity, health and wellness, our category is not a significant contributor. Not only that; we have responded to changing consumer desires for healthier products that are better for one. On that note, I draw members' attention to the fact that three years ago one in 20 of our products would have been regarded as such. Today we have doubled that number — one in ten of the products that consumers buy would fall into that healthier "better for you" category.
That is all that we have to say. I thank the Chairman and committee very much for their time. We will be happy to take questions.
I thank Mr. Lyons and Mr. Brigdale for their presentation. I apologise that there was a vote in the Seanad that many members of the committee unfortunately had to attend. I will proceed with questions from the floor.
I thank the Snack Food Council for its presentation. It must be acknowledged that steps have been taken to put foods with reduced fat and salt content on the market. However, that move is being led by the consumer, who is demanding it. We must meet consumer needs. The point has been made that detailed nutritional information is prominently displayed on products. Does the council intend to display details of the fat and salt content of regular products on packets? I know that the practice is such regarding products with reduced salt and fat content.
Regarding the Irish potato crop, what percentage used in the manufacturing process is sourced here? Is it 100% or somewhere short of this? Perhaps the delegates might outline whether current public demands are for additional health benefits from food. Can they promise any developments? Are novel foods on the horizon? Mr. Brigdale has made the very valid point that there are two sides to the energy balance, what we take in and what we burn up. Has the Snack Food Council done anything to promote the other side relating to the burning of energy and young people participating in sports activities?
I have two further points, the first of which relates to vending machines in secondary schools. This is not a problem for the Snack Food Council, but the committee must examine the issue in conjunction with the Joint Committee on Education and Science and the relevant Department. Much of the time vending machines are installed in secondary schools to generate income owing to inadequate funds having been provided by the Department. That is a sad reflection of what is happening in the education sector. Schools are using vending machines as a mechanism to support children's education.
My final point concerns consumption and the point made in the presentation that snack foods account for 5% of total energy intake, 7% of fat, 6% of saturated fat and 5% of sodium. The vast majority would automatically rate the consumption of snack foods and their contribution to our intake of fat, saturated fat and sodium ten times higher. This highlights the lack of information available to the public on food products and what they contain. There is growing public demand to find out exactly what they are consuming. I was not aware of the high salt content of bread, for example, until today. We must get that information to the public and initiate a balanced debate. However, it is critically important regarding all food products that the consumer has the information up-front and that he or she be able to decide in the supermarket whether to buy a product or favour the low-fat or reduced-salt option.
I would have thought that the level of consumption of the lower-fat, lower-salt products might have been higher than one in ten, even if it has risen from one in 20. Why is it only 10% of total consumption? Do the delegates envisage that trend changing? I would be grateful of some indication in that regard.
I thank Mr. Lyons and Mr. Brigdale for providing us with this information. Perhaps we automatically assume that such products as crisps contain relatively high levels of salt and it concentrates one's mind when one discovers how much it is relative to bread, for example. Like Deputy Naughten, I believe there is a major information gap regarding nutritional information and education. I relate this to some extent to the information provided, not by any means exclusively by the Snack Food Council, but in general on packaging. First, it is complicated; people have great trouble interpreting it. Even those who are reasonably well informed have difficulty understanding what it means. Second, almost invariably, one would have to go around with a magnifying glass to read the information.
I am very conscious of salt intake. The delegates have spoken of both salt and sodium. How is it labelled on packets? Is it labelled as salt or as sodium? The average consumer will have no fix on the relative implications of the two. If it is labelled as sodium, one must multiply by a factor of approximately 2.5 to calculate the salt content. Ordinary people will simply not make that connection. That is not the responsibility of the Snack Food Council; I accept the legal position in that regard. However, it requires clarification and simplification to make it obvious to everyone what he or she is consuming.
Much emphasis was placed on saturated and unsaturated fats. Are there any of those dreaded trans fats in the product? If not, then that is good news. Who represents the Irish University Nutritional Alliance? Are there any bodies co-operating with this alliance, besides Irish universities?
We need to be conscious of what we are selling to children. I am aware of the Gary Lineker advertisement.
Mr. Brigdale
We are very conscious of it too.
It is an example of the power of advertising. There is also an advertisement with Micháel Ó Muircheartaigh. The information is linked to sporting activities. I presume that is a deliberate selling factor and I would like the witnesses to comment on the power of advertising and the impact that it has on young children.
The presentation divides categories into low, medium and high consumption and an average is then taken. Some 14% do not eat any of these products at all. What are the relative proportions of the low, medium and high consumers? The average seems very small and very acceptable. The people in the high category would be of some significance nutritionally and from an obesity point of view, relative to those in the low category.
It is very difficult to speak after an expert like Deputy Upton. I thank Mr. Lyons and Mr. Brigdale for their fascinating presentations. It is true that their industry gets very bad press. I was very conscious of that last week when my children came home from school with a letter from the principal setting out what was and what was not acceptable for lunch. All of the savoury food products mentioned by the witnesses were completely outlawed, but white bread, rolls and so on were acceptable. Biscuits were also unacceptable. Most primary schools throughout the country now have healthy eating policies, but to what extent are those policies based on hard facts? To what extent are they based on the nutritional value of the particular products included? What is the merit in excluding some products such as those produced by companies in the Snack Food Council?
How long has the Snack Food Council been in existence? How is it funded? How does it operate?
I apologise for missing the presentation, but I got caught for a vote in the Seanad. Going through the presentation, I notice that sodium levels in potato crisps were reduced by 20% in 2005. What measures has the council undertaken to ensure that labelling of salt RDAs and their equivalents have been put in place by the manufacturers of these goods?
The presentation also states that 1% of advertising is confined to television, but there are other forms of advertising such as on the Internet and so on. What steps have been taken to counter that or is the council just isolating television? The snack food manufacturers have decided to follow individual company salt reduction programmes, according to the presentation. Consequently, salt reduction is occurring at different levels. What is the manufacturers' obligation in updating the Snack Food Council on their salt reduction programmes?
Mr. Lyons
The point made about up-front labelling is very valid. We have group 2 labelling, which is on the back of the packs. The sodium level is the current terminology for group 2, rather than the salt level. The salt level would be more helpful and we are actively looking at that. We are also considering putting the level on the front of the packs and I think it will come on-stream sooner rather than later. It is one thing to talk about something and to communicate what a product is about, but unless it is shown to people it will be a waste of time.
Approximately 95% of the potatoes used in crisps are grown here in Ireland, while approximately 5% of them are grown elsewhere to get early crops in. We are creating a research and development facility to produce products that are more healthy but that also gives us more options. They are also sales-driven, but as part of selling to the public one must be able to produce products in which the public will be interested. We are talking about moving away from cooking and oil bases to purely baked products. We are also investigating products with root bases, such as cassava snacks.
Over the next six months, much research will be done and new products will be introduced that are baked rather than fried and that have not the same level of fat in them as some of the current products. At the top of the research programme are foods that are better for the consumer. However, we can go so far with products that are better for the consumer, but people eventually will not buy them because they will not enjoy the taste. If the most healthy product is on the shelf and not selling then that is no good for anybody. Therefore, a balance must be maintained.
In combination with the FDII, there is a code of practice that ensures that the healthier options are contained in vending machines in secondary schools. Tuck shops are also in schools to provide them with revenue and students can also get their chocolates in such shops. For most students, exercise is vital. There is not much of a problem in having a bar of chocolate or a packet of crisps if the student is out kicking a ball around or whatever.
Mr. Brigdale
Deputy Upton asked about progress in the area of lower fats. The growth of healthy products will always have a glass ceiling owing to taste. The consumer will always talk about healthier options, but as soon as that impinges on taste, the product will be reduced to the ghetto of those who are driven by diet rather than those who are just looking for nutritious foods. I made the point that we had doubled that growth, but where else can it go? It is dependant on the pipeline and I am not sure if I agree that it is consumer-led. Consumers will talk about it but will not always gravitate towards the healthier options. Sometimes they will gravitate towards what they know and love. As a category, we have launched a plethora of healthier products such as Honest, Walkers Lites, Perri Lights, Hunky Dorys Lights. It is probably a bigger category than any other. I sometimes wonder how committed consumers are to making that leap.
On the question of how we deal with complicated labelling and the information gap on labelling, we support whatever will help. If salt indication labelling or putting labels on the front of packets will help, we are happy to do this. We note that in the UK the guideline daily amounts have been put on the front of packets, which is useful. We do not think traffic lights are useful because they are simplistic to the point of obduracy. If traffic lights were put on some products, cheddar cheese would have a red label — a stop sign. That is idiocy, so we do not favour it. Consumers should be intelligent enough to interrogate data. We are happy to put labels on the front of packets but traffic lights are too simplistic an option.
We have no issue with trans-fatty acids as there is a negligible level of such acids. I was asked about the Irish Universities Nutrition Alliance, IUNA, which includes Trinity College, Dublin, University College, Cork and the University of Ulster. The Department of Agriculture and Food co-sponsors with the Food Safety Authority of Ireland, FSAI, as part of what I believe was called the food institutional research measure. Therefore, the alliance is wholly independent from the Snack Food Council in terms of its provenance.
The issue of advertising is linked to another question asked by Senator Coonan. I am responsible for advertising in my work. I wish I could tell my managing director that advertising definitely has an impact on sales. The classic line is: I know half my advertising budget works; I just do not know which half. If we knew which half, we could get rid of much waste. We are not major players in terms of spend. We have voluntarily accepted our advertising being taken out of children's programmes. Are we talking about television because we do not want to talk about the Internet and everything that is being done on posters and radio? The answer is "No". Television is still by far the biggest medium in terms of reaching consumers in this and most other markets. Approximately 90% of our spend goes on television advertising, which is where we want to make an impact. The Internet has not really impacted commercially in terms of reach in our category.
With regard to links to sports activities, we have used sports figures both as tools to sell to the broader public and also as vehicles to talk about health and wellness. I was asked what contributions we have made to the broader health and wellness debate. One example is the Walkers campaign to get people walking, which was fronted by Gary Lineker. Another is that council members are part of a nutrition and health foundation, in conjunction with Food and Drinks Industry of Ireland, FDII, which seeks to educate people in work as to how they should eat. We have ongoing discussions with bodies such as the FSAI as to how we might best communicate with consumers on how to consume our products, not only with regard to consumption but also those other often forgotten elements — walking, running, jumping and all that good fun stuff.
One of the questions concerned the merit of healthy eating policies. We believe the food pyramid is correct and that it exists for a purpose. We believe our products have a use. We do not like it when schools ban our products but we must live with it. Frequently we are told that, as much as for health reasons, our products are banned because they are messy and children spill them. Our products are on the food pyramid. However, they are treats and we only want them eaten as treats.
There is a misapprehension about who consumes our products. Over 70% of consumption of our products is by those aged 18 years and older. My target market is 21 and 22 year olds. I am not targeting children but older people, who constitute the bulk of the population.
The Snack Food Council comprises Tayto, Largo Food, Walkers, which is part of PepsiCo, Proctor and Gamble, which owns the Pringles brand, and Robert Roberts, which is the distributor for KP in this market. The council funds itself. We would be willing to take public donations but no one has volunteered to date. The council is literally an outreach arm. We talk to people and bore them to tears about our products.
There was a question on guideline daily amounts, GDAs, and recommended daily amounts, RDAs, with regard to salt. It is fair to ask whether we show consumers the level of sodium or salt. We would be happy to show either but one then gets into confusion around the issue whereas we believe it is important simply to state the facts about our products. We think the suggestion with regard to salt is a good one and we would be happy to consider it.
I hope I have covered the question on advertising. In terms of how we police reductions on salt, this is policed by the FSAI and we are in constant contact with Dr. Wayne Anderson at the authority. He includes information on us on the FSAI website and no one is faster than the good doctor to publish on the website that we have not delivered. I am happy to report we have delivered.
If I have missed any questions, I would be happy to answer them.
Are there any supplementary questions? As there are no further questions, I thank the members of the Snack Food Council for attending the meeting and for a very interesting presentation. I hope the council will be back with the committee in the future. It is always welcome.
Sitting suspended at 4.37 p.m. The joint committee resumed in private session at 4.40 p.m. and adjourned at 4.45 p.m. until 11 a.m. on Thursday, 2 November 2006.