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JOINT COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD debate -
Wednesday, 14 May 2008

Sheep, Lamb and Goat Sectors: Discussion with Mr. Liam Aylward, MEP.

I warmly welcome Mr. Liam Aylward MEP, a former Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture and Food and a former member of this committee, to the meeting to discuss the report on the future of the sheep, lamb and goat sectors in Europe. The committee has discussed the future of the sheep sector and the Irish Farmers Association has been before it to discuss that issue. We have representatives from the IFA, the Irish Cattle and Sheep Farmers Association and the Irish Business and Employers Confederation with us today.

I remind members of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in a way that would make him or her identifiable.

I invite Mr. Aylward to make his opening statement. I thank him for inviting us to the launch of the lamb report in Brussels. On behalf of the members of the committee I thank him for the way he looked after us on that occasion.

Mr. Liam Aylward, MEP

I thank the Chairman and members for their invitation to come before the committee. I am glad to have the opportunity to present this report to the members of the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Fisheries andFood and explain its contents.

On the last occasion I was before the committee I was here as Minister of State regarding the introduction of some directive from Europe on wine growing in Ireland. We had good fun that day in the exchanges. It is not something we expect to happen here unless climate change happens more rapidly than we expect. That was my last opportunity to appear before the committee.

Approximately 12 months ago I was appointed to do this report by the agriculture committee. I have been working hard with a large number of people since then. I want to introduce Claire Donlon, who has been advising me throughout the process, and thank her for her work and her contribution to the report.

In tandem with this report, the European Parliament's agriculture committee agreed that a consultancy firm would carry out a study on the future of the sheep sector — a true sign that it is committed to the report. Ernst and Young won the tender and produced a fine and detailed study, which provided the basis for my report.

From the outset there was a very positive reaction to this report because in many ways the sheep sector is the forgotten child of agriculture and the report presented an opportunity to turn the spotlight on the sector. In the past year I consulted widely with European Union and Irish farming organisations, processing groups, consumer organisations, EU governments and the European Commission.

I acknowledge the presence in the Gallery of the representatives of the farming organisations, the IFA, the ICMSA and the Irish Meat Board. Bord Bia representatives are not here but all of those organisations were most helpful to me in the consultation process. They did quite an amount of work in contributing to this final document.

I also conducted meetings with the Agriculture Commissioner, Ms Fischer Boel, and various European Agriculture Ministers, including the Slovenian Minister for Agriculture who is currently chairing all EU Agriculture Council meetings as Slovenia hosts the EU Presidency. I met our former Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Mary Coughlan, many times about the contents of the report. She has been very supportive at all times and I am certain that support will continue under our new Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Brendan Smith. I take the opportunity to congratulate him, his family and supporters on his appointment and Deputy Mary Coughlan on her appointment as Tánaiste.

I had a very productive meeting with the French Minister for Agriculture, Mr. Barnier, which was crucial as France holds the EU Presidency from July to December this year, and will be key in the implementation of the report. I have been invited by him to address a special conference organised by the French Presidency on the future of the sheep sector, which will take place in Limoges in September. The important aspect is not my attendance at that conference but the fact that prior to his taking over the Presidency this conference was already arranged. He had recognised the difficulties in the sector and had pencilled in our attendance and that of the main players in Europe.

As the Chairman stated, I hosted a lamb evening in the Parliament last November, which many members attended. This event was attended by almost 200 people, including Commissioner Fischer Boel, the President of the Parliament, Mr. Pöttering, the Chairman of the European Parliament agriculture committee, Mr. Neil Parish, and other MEPs from the agriculture committee. European Commission representatives, farming groups, representatives from the lamb processing sector and consumer groups were also in attendance. This event was sponsored by Bord Bia, and I thank the board for that, and its equivalents in France and England. Although this was a social occasion, it provided a forum for the stakeholders of the sector to engage and thus contributed to highlighting the seriousness of the problem in a European context.

The report is now complete. Last week there was an exchange of views on the report in the European Parliament's agriculture committee. There will be a vote on it on 27 May by all members of the agriculture committee and by all MEPs in the July plenary session in Strasbourg. Some 80 amendments have been submitted within the time frame, which expired yesterday. Most of the amendments have to do with the environmental payment scheme I proposed. Those amendments will have to be dealt with in due course.

The objective of the report is to identify the problems, bring forward solutions and put in place the necessary EU structures to ensure that practical reforms can now be effectively implemented.

The sheep sector is a very important sector in Ireland, both economically and environmentally. Last year, sheepmeat exports were worth €174 million. Sheep farming is particularly important in more remote and mountainous areas where it is often the only agricultural option and therefore makes a crucial contribution to the economy in rural areas. It is also an environmentally friendly enterprise and plays a key role in maintaining the rural landscape.

Yet there can be no doubt that the long-term sustainability of sheepmeat production in the EU on a professional scale is more under threat today than ever. EU sheep production has decreased by 12.5% since 2000. There is a mass exodus of farmers from the sector due to the low profit margins and intensive labour involved. Consumers, particularly young people, are eating less lamb as it is considered an expensive meat and difficult to cook. At the same time there is increased competition from third country imports, particularly New Zealand.

It is estimated that lack of action will result in a decrease in the production of sheepmeat of approximately 10% by the year 2015. The imminent health check of the CAP, which will be published by the European Commission on 20 May and concluded by December this year, provides a timely opportunity to review the sheep sector and implement proposals before it is too late.

I will deal briefly with the main elements of the report. Members of this House and members of county councils get many reports and they tend to end up on the shelf gathering dust. My main concern was to ensure that whatever is agreed in this report will be implemented.

For that reason, I have proposed that a new EU implementation task force comprised of members from the European Commission and the Presidency in Council be set up to ensure that the practical reforms of this report are implemented. It would present progress reports to the agriculture committee of the European Parliament and to the EU Council of agriculture Ministers every six months over the next two years. This measure will ensure that the European sheep sector will be high on the agenda for the coming years.

Farm incomes in the sheep sector are among the lowest in the agricultural industry and the financial support received falls well behind other agricultural sectors. In spite of the economic, social and environmental role played by the sheep sector, the Common Agricultural Policy has failed this sector. The decoupling package introduced in the CAP reform of 2003 has contributed to a decline in production. I am also aware, and it is a matter of great concern in the west of Ireland, that the habitats directive has also contributed to that decline. The forthcoming CAP health check must direct additional financial support to sheepmeat production, taking into account the different models in member states. There is no "one-size-fits-all" solution to the future financing of the sheep sector.

I have proposed the introduction of a new environmental sheep maintenance scheme which would allow sheep farmers to be paid on a per ewe basis. This initiative would be financed by either direct national Exchequer funds or by both national and EU funding. This initiative would be clear recognition of the very positive role the sheep sector plays in environmental protection. An additional payment for traditional mountainous breeds, to preserve the sheep in sensitive areas, must also be introduced and be financed either directly by national governments or co-financed by the EU and national governments. Member states must be given the flexibility to use Article 69 or modulation, according to their requirements. This would not suit Ireland, however. I have no intention of setting one sector of Irish agriculture against another, which is what would happen in this case. Nevertheless, it is attractive to other member states.

There is currently no EU legislation dealing with the issue of origin labelling for the sheepmeat sector. As a result there are many different labelling techniques in operation within the EU for sheep products. To promote EU preference amongst consumers and to justify supporting the promotion and marketing of sheepmeat, consumers must be convinced on the basis of food security, indigenous EU production and traditional methods of production. Consumers should be given maximum information about the origin of the products they purchase so they can make informed purchases and I have proposed that an EU logo be developed for sheepmeat products, which would be underwritten by a number of criteria, including a farm assurance scheme and a country of origin indication. This would ensure that consumers are fully aware of the point of origin of the product.

I also considered, although it is not in the report, the inclusion of a slaughter date. The jury is still out on the issue, but I would welcome the opinions of the committee. It is something we have been examining. I have heard of product from New Zealand that has been around for almost two years before its sell by date. It would be an advantage, if we could agree the right formula, to include the slaughter date on the product, particularly on Irish products.

The European Commission intends to introduce compulsory implementation of an electronic identification system for sheep on 31 December 2009. This proposal will burden producers with additional costs at a time when the sector is in economic difficulty. Furthermore, the benefits and feasibility of electronic tagging have yet to be proven. In Ireland and in many other European countries, there are already adequate identification systems in place to deliver the requirements for traceability and animal health. Some countries want electronic tagging, such as Spain and Italy. I have proposed that each member state be given the flexibility of introducing an electronic identification system for sheep on a voluntary basis and that member states that already have adequate systems in place be allowed to continue with their current systems. There is no doubt that Ireland has adequate systems in place and there is no question about changing them now or in the future.

To generate lamb consumption, it is important to invest in marketing. Young people, who are low consumers of lamb, need to be targeted, emphasising the convenience, quality and health aspects of the product, with the core objective of not only increasing consumption but of adding value to EU lamb. Bord Bia and the French and UK food promotion agencies — Interbev and Eblex — are currently conducting a joint generic promotional campaign to increase lamb consumption in France. The generic promotion of lamb does not have access to the EU promotion budget, which is valued at €45 million for 2008. To qualify for this budget, sheepmeat must have a European quality mark, such as PGI, the Protected Geographical Indication, and PDO, the Protected Designation of Origin. I have proposed that a part of this budget be ring fenced for the promotion of EU lamb given the fact that the sector is in serious economic difficulty and in need of a boost.

When one talks to people involved in the sheepmeat industry one finds there is great concern about what the farmer is paid at the farmyard gate and what the consumer pays for the product on the supermarket shelf. As a result, I have asked the European Commission to publish a price series on retail, wholesale, processor and producer prices for each member state on the Internet every three months to ensure more price transparency within the European sheep sector. This could be applied to other sectors as well.

Sheepmeat imports are in excess of 20% and have a significant bearing within the EU market place. The higher costs involved in the production of EU lamb puts the domestic product at a competitive disadvantage compared to the imported product. This imbalance is all the more obvious given that imports are concentrated mainly in two sensitive periods in the European calendar, that is, Easter and Christmas. In this context, it is important to review existing import quota management regimes to ensure that domestically produced lamb is not exposed to unfair competition.

The Irish Government is building a series of alliances in Europe to ensure the interests of the Irish beef and sheepmeat sectors are protected in the context of the WTO process. The Taoiseach, Deputy Brian Cowen, had discussions with José Manuel Barrosso, President of the European Commission, as recently as last Friday. The French Government has made it clear to the European Commission that it opposes Commissioner Mandelson's negotiating stance. The French Minister for Agriculture, Michel Barnier, was also in Dublin last Friday and met the Government regarding the ongoing World Trade Organisation talks. At a recent agriculture Council meeting, more than 20 countries of the 27 opposed Commissioner Mandelson's strategy. We know there are issues of concern and we are addressing them.

At this point — and I do not say this to offend anybody — it is important to state that WTO and the Lisbon reform treaty are two separate issues and should be treated accordingly. It is not in the interests of the Government or farmers to reject this treaty. With the conclusion of the CAP health check in December, Ireland is best served negotiating from a position of strength, not from a position of weakness. In the CAP health check there are three issues which should be addressed from an Irish viewpoint: first, that modulation should be on a voluntary basis for each member state to decide; second, that milk quotas be increased in advance of the proposed abolition of quotas in 2015 and, third, that the system of the single farm payment be simplified.

By voting "Yes" for the EU reform treaty, Ireland will demonstrate that it is a committed and leading member of the European Union. It is in Ireland's future economic interest and the interest of our agriculture sector and food sector that we vote "Yes" for this treaty. As part of the simplification process in the review of the CAP health check, which is taking place over the next eight months, the European Commission must allow 14 days notice to be given to livestock farmers for on-farm cross-compliance inspections.

Other aspects of the report focus on the need to include lamb in the "Community Action Programme for Public Health" to promote the health and protein benefits of lamb to consumers and the need for innovation. At present, the financial return is almost negligible for by-products of sheep, such as wool and pelts, known as the fifth quarter. The value could be increased by developing new uses, such as highly efficient and ecological thermal insulating material.

Thank you, Chairman, and the members for the invitation to appear before the committee. What I have discovered about the process of consultation is that nobody should ever fear it. It is through people coming together and exchanging views that a good report is produced. The 12 month period we spent on that process, which represented all sectors, was well spent. For that reason I am delighted to have the opportunity of hearing from the members of this committee. By pooling all our resources we will get an end product that does justice to us all.

Thank you, Mr. Aylward. I compliment you on the report and thank you for meeting the committee. Before calling Deputy Creed, I wish to convey the apologies of Deputy Sherlock, the Labour Party spokesman, who had to leave for another appointment.

I would like to be associated with the words of welcome to Liam Aylward, MEP. I compliment him on a comprehensive report. Earlier, we passed votes of congratulations and good wishes to the new Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and to a former member of this committee, the newly appointed Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh. We also congratulated the former Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Coughlan, on her promotion to the position of Tánaiste. I concur with those sentiments and wish them all well in their new portfolios.

However, it should be stated clearly that sheep farmers will not shed any crocodile tears for the departure of the former Minister, Deputy Coughlan. That sector is crying out for an immediate cash injection for those working at the coalface, yet it has not happened. We have had clear evidence of smoke and daggers, to use a phrase of the former Taoiseach. We certainly had a smoke and mirrors approach by the former Minister with press announcements of alleged transfers of funds to sheep farmers. If one considers the dates on which these promises were made, in May 2007, it becomes abundantly obvious what was afoot in the Minister's mind and that of the outgoing Government at the time.

For example, on 16 May 2007 it was announced that €27 million was available under the mixed grazing supplementary measure for sheep farmers. In a parliamentary reply to me on 8 May 2008, it emerged that of the €27 million allegedly available to sheep farmers, a total of €9,000 has been transferred directly to farmers' pockets. That smacks of a lack of a political commitment to do something tangible for sheep farmers.

To add insult to injury, funds were allegedly available under the farm investment scheme for the sheep sector, which was supposed to be for sheep handling facilities such as fencing. At the stroke of a pen, however, at the end of October 2007, the Minister pulled the rug from under sheep farmers and others who stood to benefit from that funding. She backdated the withdrawal of the scheme by ten days. Therefore, even if farmers had their applications in by 31 October 2007, they found that if they had not applied by 20 October they were denied the grant facility.

Those specific funds were allegedly ring-fenced for the sheep sector, totalling €5 million or €6 million for sheep handling facilities, including fencing. Even now, six or seven months later, we cannot get an answer from the Department as to how much was available or approved for individual sheep farmers. Anyone who is interested can see the replies to my parliamentary questions of 8 May 2008.

Other measures were also promised and all occurred in May 2007. It teaches us a lesson that all announcements made in the lead-up to an election should carry a Government health warning. They have proved to be nothing more than a deception played out on an agricultural sector that is crying out for a financial injection.

I welcome the report by Liam Aylward, which puts the issue into clear focus. It targets a measure that will directly transfer cash to the pockets of sheep farmers, but who will pay for this? We do not want to rob Peter to pay Paul. I welcome Mr. Aylward's comment that he will not become involved in playing one section of the agricultural industry off against another. This matter requires additional funds and members of all parties around the table would prefer if the funds came directly from Europe. Realistically, however, we will at best have to co-finance it, if not finance it entirely ourselves.

I welcome the report which puts the payments issue in focus as well as dealing with the critical issues of country of origin labelling and promotion. It also deals with third country threats concerning the WTO talks, which may escalate in the foreseeable future if what is on the table materialises, although we hope not. When the report is boiled down it is about putting per-ewe payments into farmers' pockets. Sheep farmers are voting with their feet and are getting out of an industry that is in free-fall. Unless we accept direct payment transfers, we will lose the critical mass to support not just continued on-farm participation by farmers but also the downstream processing jobs involved. That is the really serious threat we now face given the lack of confidence in the industry and the fact that so many people have left it with a resulting decline in sheep breeding numbers.

The popularity of sheepmeat among consumers is also an issue, but it is the healthiest meat one could possibly eat. It is the closest thing to large-scale organic production we have, apart from its environmental credentials. Unless we fund sheep farmers, however, we might as well paper the walls of this committee room with all the fine documents and reports we have seen.

I would like to know what the prospects are of Mr. Aylward's report being approved as a proposal that would be funded 100% by the Commission, while not taking money out by way of increased modulation or any other method that would affect other agricultural sectors or rural development in general.

Mr. Aylward mentioned the consultants who did the report and his own report, but the recommendations are substantially the same and they dovetailed. Last September or October when the Minister announced the suckler cow initiative, I published a document which, in essence, is exactly the same as Mr. Aylward's report. It stated that unless we recognise the need to put money into sheep farmers' pockets we will not have a sheep industry left in the country. If that is not done soon, we will not have a sheep industry to support.

The situation is even more critical in mountainous areas. I see that among the audience is Mr. Henry Burns, who is the IFA's sheep committee chairman. He attended this committee some weeks ago with his colleagues. He made an impressive submission on the overall problems facing the industry, including the difficulties that exist in mountainous regions. If sheep come off such areas, they will never be reintroduced because farmers will lose the required familiarity with that work, including the shepherding skills involved. Sheep farming has been carried on in those areas over many generations but unless we make funding directly available, those skills will disappear. The time for words and reports is long past. We need action now.

At the outset, I wish to commend Liam Aylward for taking the initiative in producing this report, which is long overdue, particularly for people involved in sheep farming. He said in his presentation that sheep farming is the forgotten child of the agricultural sector. I concur with that in so far as sheep farming is probably the most marginalised and economically deprived sector in which farmers are involved. We are talking in particular about economically deprived coastal communities and mountainous regions which have benefited from sheep farming.

Many aspects of Mr. Aylward's presentation were very interesting. He stated that last year the sheepmeat exports were worth €174 million and one must consider the effect this had on the economy in rural areas from where it was generated and the necessity of having something like that in those areas.

He also stated that EU sheep production has decreased by 12.5% since 2000. The reason behind the decrease is that such production is labour intensive and has low profit margins, and trying to compete with the competition from imported lamb makes it all the more difficult. What is worrying in the report is that if this is not addressed, there will be a further reduction of 10% by 2015. That is an ominous sign for people who are trying to survive in the industry.

His proposal of an EU implementation task force is a worthy one because, as he stated, many reports produced with good intentions are left on the shelf and gather dust over decades. An implementation task force should give teeth to the content of the report and ensure that the report, when accepted, obviously following amendments, etc., can be the catalyst to move matters forward.

I was impressed when Mr. Aylward stated that an environmental sheep maintenance scheme would allow for sheep farmers to be paid on a per-ewe basis and that this could be funded by the Exchequer, by the EU or, perhaps, jointly. This is also a worthy proposal and it would be helpful if that were implemented.

He made reference to the payments for traditional mountainous breeds in order to preserve them. The foot and mouth disease outbreak in the Six Counties, and the transfer across the Border into the Cooley Peninsula, had a detrimental effect on the type of breed of sheep in existence there at that time. Fortunately, following the replacement of sheep from various areas of the county to complement the breeding that was there, the traditional breeds still exist.

Mr. Aylward made an interesting point about labelling legislation and the type of techniques in operation within the EU for sheep products. I do not think that an EU logo will be developed for sheepmeat productions, but keeping the country of origin highlighted is more than worthy.

Mr. Aylward stated that he has a problem with an electronic identification system because of the cost factor. I take it that his difficulty is just the cost factor because if it was subsidised, it would probably be the easiest and most accurate tagging system.

On marketing, he made the point that there is a decline in consumption, particularly among younger people. That in itself is an indication that the current marketing system is not meeting its intention. It is a point that should be taken on board.

Now I come to the part where I disagree with Mr. Aylward. It is obvious that the Taoiseach issued a directive to the members of the Government parties to separate the WTO talks from the Lisbon treaty and that there be no dissent on the Lisbon treaty. I cannot understand how one can differentiate one from the other, the Lisbon treaty from the WTO talks.

The WTO talks, in all probability, will go beyond the Lisbon treaty and one will be in a completely different scenario if that is the case. If the WTO talks were concluded before the Lisbon treaty and were back for ratification within the Council of Ministers, it would demand unanimity but after the Lisbon treaty it no longer demands unanimity as qualified majority voting will apply.

No matter what way I look at this, I see a direct linkage to it. It is probably one of the most dangerous proposals to come from the Community, particularly on the island of Ireland, that one will lose that ace card that Irish Ministers had of having the power of veto over anything that would be detrimental to the economic interests of this country.

I have been all over the west in the past number of days and that is a significant concern for people within the farming community. The farming community is not accepting for one minute that there is a separation between the WTO and the Lisbon treaty.

Is Deputy Ferris stating that agriculture would be better off if Ireland was out of Europe?

I am not saying that. Is the Chairman stating that if the electorate rejects the Lisbon treaty, Ireland will be put out of Europe because that is the implication of what he says?

I would say Deputy Ferris is saying that with the WTO and the Lisbon treaty, it is difficult to differentiate.

Senator Bradford will get time to respond.

It is a little like Sinn Féin/IRA, it depends on one's perspective whether they are the same or are different.

We will not go down that road.

It is not just Sinn Féin that is calling for this. There are many people doing likewise, including in the farming community. At present, the IFA leadership has huge concerns about it. Is the Chairman stating that they want out of Europe? They do not.

What I am saying here is that if the Lisbon treaty is rejected on this issue and other issues, it would have no bearing whatsoever on Ireland's standing in Europe. I said the same about the Nice referendum.

Please return to the issue before us.

We were told before the Nice referendum we would be the pariahs of Europe, that we would be letting down Europe and our position in Europe would be greatly reduced. We are still the same. After Nice II, it did not make any difference.

We had to have Nice II.

Yes, but you might have to have Lisbon II.

Deputy Ferris, this is not a political forum.

The option of Lisbon II with the retention of the veto for the agricultural sector might be acceptable. I am not making a political speech, I am speaking — if I am allowed to finish — in the interest of the farming community and I will speak for as long as I must. I believe it is wrong and misleading to throw out the red herring which claims the two issues are separate. The issues are the same and have implications for each other. That is my point.

To end on a positive note I welcome the initiative Mr. Aylward mentioned. The report provides a platform for debate. Deputy Creed made the point that the available money has not been drawn down this year by sheep farmers, and he explained the reasons for this. I concur with everything he says in that regard.

I wish Mr. Aylward well and I assume there will be several amendments before the vote on 27 May and I hope by the end of the process the proposed implementation plan will take effect. There is no point having a report sitting on a desk unless there is an implementation plan for it. I wish Mr. Aylward well on its implementation. However, I believe his position on the Lisbon treaty and the WTO talks is wrong.

I thank the Chairman. Can I make a political speech now? Perhaps I will leave it for the moment. I welcome the report, which is important and comprehensive. There is no doubt that sheep farming is at a crossroads in Europe and in Ireland in particular. Some initiative is needed to stimulate lamb and sheep production here. It was said earlier that there has been a 12.5% reduction in sheep production since 2000 and this trend continues. Therefore, the report is of vital importance at this stage. If the report is implemented, as it has been presented by Mr. Aylward, by the EU, the Council of Europe and the Commission, it would go some way towards reversing the reduction in sheep and lamb production in Ireland. Any measure to sustain the lamb industry should include a ewe premium. The ewe is as important for sheep production as a cow is for dairy farming. If a premium is provided for the ewe, it is the ideal situation and sheep and lambs will follow. Whatever funding is available, whether from the EU, the Government or joint funding, should be pursued.

I also welcome the task force on the implementation of the report, which is important. We have had many reports over many years on many farming sectors and they are gathering dust on shelves and have never been implemented. It is important that a task force is set up to follow through on the recommendations of this report and to ensure an update is produced every six months on the full implementation of its recommendations. Can Mr. Aylward provide the timescale for the adoption of this report by the EU and the timescale for the payments, if accepted? Will it be one or two years before ewe premiums come on stream?

I love lamb and I am of the view that it is a very healthy food. It is important that we should begin promoting Irish lamb in the same way we do beef and other products. I was pleased to hear that there is an EU fund into which we might tap in respect of promotional activities. I hope there will be positive developments in this regard.

The sheep rearing industry is vital, particularly to rural areas. Encouraging sheep to graze on our hills and mountains is an environmentally friendly way of ensuring that the latter are protected. I welcome the report. I hope it will be implemented as soon as possible in order that there might be an increase in the number of sheep reared in Ireland.

On the question of the Lisbon treaty, I do not agree with Deputy Ferris. I worked as a full-time farmer until I was elected to the Dáil. The EU has been good to us and has treated us well since we joined in 1973. The money has flowed in from Europe. It would be a rebuke to the EU if Ireland does not accept the treaty in its entirety. The WTO negotiations are completely separate from the debate on the Lisbon treaty. I am a member of the IFA and other farming organisations. These groups must realise that if they are in some way involved in rejecting the treaty, it will weaken our hand in the future. After 2013 the Government will be obliged to negotiate a new agreement on CAP reform in the aftermath of the health check. If we reject the Lisbon treaty, our position will be massively weakened. We would not have the same clout we currently possess and that is a matter of concern.

We have done well out of our membership of the EU and we should stick with it. We need to keep our open markets. We need access to the EU in order to sell our products to the rest of the world. If we do not have such access, we will get nowhere.

I welcome our old colleague, Liam Aylward, MEP, back to the Oireachtas and I thank him for his presentation. He will be glad to know that in his absence he has been well and vocally represented at the committee.

I am not an expert on the sheep sector. I have merely a passing knowledge with regard to its near total disappearance. There was a time when almost every farmer in the part of County Cork from which I come kept a small number of sheep.

The Senator should keep a few sheep with the hens to which he referred at our previous meeting.

The Chairman is referring to unregistered hens. In recent years, the numbers of small sheep producers have been decimated. The income crisis has had a significant effect on the sheep sector.

I am impressed by the report. The fact that it was produced by an Irish MEP — I hope he will be able to push it through — shows the positive role we can play in the European Parliament. The report refers to a matter the committee and the House have discussed in passing — it is worthy of more detailed debate — namely, the current position in Europe as regards agriculture and food and the apparent and growing crisis in respect of food stocks and supplies. In any debate on agriculture, we must focus on the fact that the day when Europe stated that less food is necessary is gone. The farmlands of Europe must be used to produce significantly more food. It should be possible to increase sheep, beef and milk production. Europe and the rest of the world need the food to which such an increase would give rise.

We must continue to make the point that the day of cutbacks, quotas, milk lakes and beef mountains is gone. The massive increase in population and the huge reduction in food production means that we find ourselves in the midst of a genuine food crisis. The sheep sector can play a role in helping to stem the tide in this regard if it is given the assistance it requires.

I agree with Mr. Aylward regarding the marketing strategy. There probably is a no more healthy food on the supermarket shelves here and in Europe than lamb. It is produced in an extremely natural fashion across the highlands and lowlands of Europe. We have failed to promote lamb as a healthy food. There was a period of ten to 15 years during which the public became entirely convinced of the health benefits of the white meat one gets from chickens, etc. However, there was a sudden reversal of policy when people became concerned about mass production. As Deputy Bobby Aylward stated, we will hopefully be able to tap into the relevant EU fund in respect of marketing lamb and the sheep sector in general.

As Deputy Creed pointed out, money is required and producer support lies at the core of this issue. There was a time when sheep had to be stamped and lambs had to be counted. Members will recall the disputes that arose in this regard. It is clear that support, perhaps in the form of a premium, is vital. It would be great if Europe could provide financial assistance and we must clarify the position in this regard. Regardless of the source of funding, if we cannot put money in producers pockets we will get nowhere. That is the key.

It is important to recognise the role the sheep sector can play in the future. We waved the red flag for too long in respect of it. However, as with other sectors of agriculture, fresh thinking is required in this era of food scarcity. Like every other sector, the sheep sector has a major role to play. However, those in the sector cannot do it on their own. Money is required.

I compliment Liam Aylward on the concept of an implementation committee. Whether it is by county councils or the Dáil, a great deal of work is done in respect of producing reports but action is not taken in respect of them. I look forward to progress being made. The report is solid. However, there will be a need to provide financial resources. Liam Aylward and his colleagues in Europe can make a strong point in respect of food stocks and the need to stem the tide. I wish him well in that regard.

I wish to place on record my support for the comments Liam Aylward made in respect of forthcoming events. There is no doubt that these cast a shadow, particularly the vote on 12 June. I would not like to be him, Avril Doyle, MEP, Mairead McGuinness, MEP, or any of our other leading MEPs if, following a "No" vote, they are obliged to seek support for Irish agriculture on 14 or 15 June.

We must take a realistic view. I am glad farming representatives are present at this meeting. We will be meeting them and their colleagues at events throughout the country in the coming weeks. We know what has made agriculture in this country tick during the past 30 years. I refer to the political and economic support we have received from Europe. Let us call a spade a spade. If the choice involves taking the advice of the political parties, which have always supported and funded agriculture during the past 30 years, or that of a disparate group of people from all sectors of society — including political parties that wanted to nationalise the ownership of land in Ireland and an organisation whose chairperson stated that the Common Agricultural Policy is a weapon of mass destruction — it will come down to the question of whose side one is on.

I want to be on the side of those who funded, supported and promoted Irish agriculture in the past 30 years. We have done superbly well out of or membership of the European Union. All the questions have not been answered and the treaty is not as perfect as we would wish. However, we want to work in, with and for Europe in order to improve the position of the sheep and agri sectors. That decision must be made on 12 June. I welcome the comments of Mr. Aylward, MEP. It is time to get real and stop beating around the bush. I thank him for his realistic comments and assessments.

The WTO talks must be stopped. The Mandelson proposals would be an absolute disaster for rural Ireland and the economy.

Who is going to stop him?

The proposals will be stopped because——

What happens if they are not stopped?

They will be stopped. However, they will not be stopped by Ireland saying "No" to the Lisbon treaty. Let us be in the room at the table with a strong voice. We will stop the proposals. Those who have said "Yes" to Europe in the past 30 years have been proved correct and those who have consistently said "No" to Europe and opposed every treaty since 1973 have been wrong and they will be wrong again. I wish Mr. Aylward well with his efforts and his report. We will support it and push it as best we can.

I welcome the report. We have been waiting a while for something like this to address the serious situation faced by sheep farmers. Mr. Aylward referred to the forgotten child but I believe there are two forgotten children in the agriculture industry, which are sheep and pig production. Producers have not received the support they deserve for their industries. Sheep rearing is an essential part of domestic agriculture. Fantastic meat is produced in the very best way possible. I have a few concerns. The price paid to the producer compared with the price paid by the consumer is an issue that must be seriously examined because of the significant imbalance involved. If we are serious about keeping the industry alive, action rather than words is needed. We have listened to what should be done but sheep farmers say nothing is happening on the ground. The time for talking is over. If we are serious about keeping this valuable industry alive, action will have to be taken immediately. I hope our MEP's proposals will be worked on and everything will work out if action is taken now.

I also welcome Mr. Aylward to the committee and I thank him for the comprehensive document he presented to the committee. The experience he attained in Ireland before he was elected to Europe, together with the experience he has attained in Brussels, is paying dividends. EU sheep production has decreased by 12.5% since 2000 and I suspect much of the decrease has occurred in Ireland because sheep numbers have reduced significantly due to high input costs and low prices paid to the producer. I recall selling lambs for £45 each in 1985 and one could not make that amount nowadays because of the production costs.

I welcome Mr. Aylward's line on the EU implementation task force and I hope when it is passed, it will be reviewed on a regular basis. He also referred to a new environmental sheep maintenance scheme. It is important such a scheme should be established on a ewe basis rather than on a lamb basis. The numbers must be maintained. He also mentioned payments for traditional mountainous breeds, which is welcome. There has been mass depopulation of sheep in my part of the country and in other hilly areas because of the damage they were doing to the land. However, breeds such as the scotch horn must be maintained, otherwise in the next few years the land will be overgrown again and farmer will have to be paid to put sheep back on the hills. If not, waste sedge grass will grow and there will be nothing but fires. It is important such breeds are retained under a scheme because they cannot be imported into the area. Once the sheep get used to an area, they can graze there on commonages and so on. The Malone report proposed mixed grazing measures and funding of €28 million to be provided under REPS 4. That payment must cover commonage if it is to have a benefit for hill farmers.

I strongly agree with the comments of Mr. Aylward and Senator Bradford on the Lisbon treaty. We should ask the farming organisations to come out strongly in favour of the treaty.

I congratulate Mr. Aylward on bringing the sheep sector to the attention of the European Parliament and getting it on the agenda. The only way the sheep industry will survive is if we have a thriving lowland sheep sector. I have sheep and I come from an upland area. Hill sheep producers will benefit by having clients for their breeding stock and other farmers will buy store sheep and fatten them on the lowlands. How we support that sector is at the core of everything.

With dairy farmers seeking to expand, a dry stock farmer with no dairy entitlements can move relatively easily into tillage on the lowlands. Unless it is made attractive and commercially viable for farmers on the lowlands to produce sheep, the industry will not be saved. In theory Ireland could have a sheep industry in its uplands, which is part of the ecosystem. As Senator Carty said, farmers were paid to keep sheep to maintain the environment but that is not what those based in the uplands want to do per se. They want to produce sheep commercially and, as a by-product of that, the environment will be protected. That must be kept in focus.

An important recommendation is the publication of price listing every three months because there must be convergence in the gap between the farm gate price and the consumer price. Lamb can be marketed as Christmas and Easter but it will be sold anyway. As mid-season lamb producers, we have lamb coming on stream now and it needs to be marketed as healthy, environmentally friendly and as a good part of the family diet. Marketing is needed throughout the year. People are prepared to pay a reasonable price and they will pay more at seasonal times such as Easter and Christmas. If education was provided on the preparation of food from the sheep sector, people would be prepared to buy and use that food more regularly.

The new tagging system is a runner as an incentive to improving breeding stock, but it is not a runner with regard to lambs that will end up slaughtered. It is not necessary in that situation. The tagging system we have currently is adequate in that regard. Perhaps we should have a mix of both tagging systems. An ordinary ear tag should be sufficient for a sheep or lamb going for slaughter.

Support initiatives must be coupled with good marketing. Some years ago we had an initiative that encouraged the purchase of pedigree bulls for herds. If we set up an initiative and provided a premium for bringing in genotyped rams into mainstream flocks, that would encourage a product that could be marketed as one that is safer and healthier. I am unsure what is allowed by way of production support.

The description of the mixed grazing measure is flawed. I heard what was said about commonages, but no cattle graze commonages. The response made to the question indicates the Minister is considering proposals from the organisations on aspects of mixed farming. REPS 4 is a voluntary, demand-led scheme and it is open to farmers to opt into it if they wish. However, the measure is flawed and farmers will not opt for it on account of that, despite its potential. Given that the farm improvement scheme, FIS, has been closed off, would it not be better to include genotyping in the mixed grazing measure or to improve fencing and stock control? These measures were part of the attraction of the FIS scheme for sheep farmers as no other incentive had been targeted at them. The control of the farm air pollution grant was not relevant to them. We need action on the issue, but how will we get that action? In fairness to Mr. Aylward, MEP, he has put the issue on the agenda and that is a credit to him. It must not be allowed go off the agenda without some action being taken.

If the Lisbon treaty is defeated on 12 June, will we have any more power on 13 June with regard to the World Trade Organisation negotiations? While I do not have as in-depth a knowledge of the treaty as some people, I understand that if the Lisbon treaty had been passed here a year ago, our MEPs would now have more influence over the Commission than they have today. Currently, only the Minister has any influence.

We still have the option of using our veto. The Government must send the signal that it will do so. Mr. Aylward mentioned the 20 countries who oppose the Mandelson strategy. What support do other European countries offer this document, particularly France, which is very proud of its sheep sector?

I welcome Mr. Liam Aylward, MEP, and wish him well with his report, which I hope will be a success. Deputies Doyle and Creed referred to the €27 million. There is no doubt that the regulations were flawed and made matters difficult. The moneys were geared towards hill farmers who found they could not draw it down because the European Union had to have cattle included in the grazing. On account of that, the moneys did not go where they were meant to go. The intention, however, was good. I agree with Mr. Aylward that the only way to get funding into sheep farmers' pockets is through a direct payment per ewe. That is the only solution that will work.

With regard to lamb, I agree with what was said about sell-by dates. That is a good idea because most of the imported lamb is frozen. Fresh lamb with a sell-by date on it will, at least, indicate it is a good Irish lamb product. Fresh lamb is as near to organic food as anyone can get. A lamb is only six months old when slaughtered, has been raised on fresh grass and meal and only in rare cases has been injected with anything. In the case of chicken or fish, such as farm-reared salmon, there is no comparison with lamb as regards the quality of the food.

I have frequently raised an issue I consider part of the problem, namely, the slaughter of animals. Currently, there are approximately seven main purchasers of lamb in Ireland. I remember a time in the 1980s when butchers paid between £80 and £85 for hoggets. That was because some butchers could slaughter animals themselves. Those people have been hounded out of business. In County Sligo there were 18 abattoirs but there is only one left and it is restricted in the number of cattle and sheep it can slaughter and must kill half the cattle in a factory. We need to take serious steps in this regard.

I urge Mr. Aylward to do whatever he can as an MEP for small abattoirs. I understand the Minister of State, Deputy Sargent, is considering the issue. We need something done for small butchers and such people who slaughter their own animals. In the 1980s these people slaughtered the equivalent of 100,000 lambs per week and approximately 10,000 cattle in small abattoirs. Those people have now been taken out of the market and we have a problem as a result. We must be serious about trying to help these small shops to upgrade their facilities or construct new facilities. Perhaps this could be done on a county basis so that these people could be customers at the sales ring and could buy cattle and sheep for slaughter.

I do not think we have much choice on the issue of the World Trade Organisation negotiations. I attended a meeting the other night at which someone said a "No" vote for the Lisbon treaty is a "Yes" vote for Mr. Mandelson. I am inclined to agree with that. Unless we are at the table, we will not have the negotiating strength we need. I am concerned about the Common Agricultural Policy health check and issues arising in 2013 and 2020 for which we need to be on our guard.

I did not think the Chairman would call me at all.

The best wine is kept till last.

I put the Deputy's name before he indicated he wanted to speak. I knew he was preparing for an onslaught.

I congratulate Mr. Liam Aylward, MEP, on producing such a comprehensive report for the committee. He proposes a policy which I hope will restore credibility to the Irish sheep industry. I thank him also for hosting the first visit of this committee to Europe last November, when he treated us royally in Brussels. We look forward to another visit in the not too distant future.

The sheep sector is very important to the farming community, particularly in the area from Mizen Head to Malin Head and in the Wicklow mountains in the east of the country. The quality of the product from the Cork, Kerry and Wicklow mountains is known throughout the world. It is sad that despite the fact that sheep exports last year were worth €174 million and the industry is so important in our remote mountainous areas, alarm bells are ringing because EU sheep production has decreased by 12.5% since the year 2000. The industry is heading in the wrong direction and this is a result of there being no incentive for farmers to produce. There is no incentive to produce extra cattle or sheep, or anything extra on account of the decoupling package that was introduced in 2003. This gave an opportunity to farmers to get what was due to them per hectare, not per unit. The unit concept is long gone and forgotten. What will happen in 20 years' time? Experts say we will not be able to produce enough food to feed the population of the world. It is then that common sense will prevail and this decoupling package will have to go by the board. It is nonsense to think that farmers can sit back and get paid per hectare for letting weeds grow on the land, thereby becoming non-productive. In the name of heaven, who was kidding whom when that policy was introduced in Europe?

When we joined the European Union more than 35 years ago we were told this country would be the bread basket or the food basket of Europe. We were proud of our products and we produced the best quality food in the world. However, we were faced ten years ago with ships lying in Bantry Bay loaded with butter because the product could not be sold. Now the milk mountain has vanished and I doubt if there is a wine lake in Europe because that has also been dented. The citrus fruit mountain seems to have come down to a molehill. When all these things are taken into consideration, it is sad to think that we did not have better planners here and in Europe in the agricultural area to predict the outcome. I predict that in the next decade we will be forced to introduce incentives to produce sheep and food of all descriptions throughout the world.

The same applies to fisheries. When a trawler owner has his quota of a certain type of fish filled how can he discern what kind of fish are in his net when he hauls it in? The big word is "conserve", but that person is judged a criminal if he does not dump the beautiful fish over the gunwale, dead, for the whales and mammals of the sea to eat. I do not think that is conservation.

The fisheries people will come to the committee in two weeks' time so I ask the Deputy to concentrate on land.

We will proceed with discussing this excellent document produced by Liam Aylward, MEP. He proposes a new EU implementation task force to ensure that the practical reforms of this report are carried out. I hope the task force is not set up as another quango, as we have seen several of them. If this report is adopted by the European Commission will it be put into practice or will it be subject to vetting and examination? We should seek some clarification on this point. I do not want the EU implementation task force to be a toothless body. I want to think it will be effective and put the concepts into operation.

Farm incomes in the sheep sector are among the lowest in the agricultural industry. When the decoupling package was introduced, farmers got lazy and decided it was no good to be hunting sheep when there was no return for the product.

The habitat directive is another madcap decision from Europe. Someone came up with the idea that there were too many sheep on the mountains and that they were destroying the foliage there. In the name of heaven, do they not realise that grass will wither on the mountains if it is not eaten and the more it is eaten the more it will grow? Europe has become too bound up with these ideas——

We gave it too much power.

We did not give it too much power but if Deputy Ferris has his way, we will have no power. Mr. Aylward's report proposes the introduction of a new environmental sheep maintenance scheme that will allow sheep farmers to be paid on a per-ewe basis. If a farmer is paid for his production he will certainly increase the production rate and he will have the maximum number of ewes on the mountain again instead of sitting back in his armchair and reading the paper or turning on the news on television and forgetting about the ewes on the mountain. That is the most important point in this report.

I note the report states that member states must be given the flexibility to use Article 69 according to their requirements but that would not suit Ireland. I ask Mr. Aylward to clarify whether we are to be exempt from implementing Article 69.

As regards the proposal for electronic tagging, I would describe it as the cry of the lost sheep on the mountain because that is all it is. We have had one experience of an electronic system here in our voting machines and they are now stored up and gone into liquidation——

They were very successful.

How in the name of God will we make a success of electronic tagging of sheep when we could not make a success of the electronic tagging of voters? It is disgraceful.

Mr. Aylward states that this proposal will burden producers with additional costs at a time when the sector is in economic difficulty, and I thoroughly agree with him. European countries that already have adequate identification systems in place should be exempt from electronic tagging.

Mr. Aylward seems to have covered a wide range of subjects, such as marketing, the promotion of lamb and the publication of sheep prices and sheep meat imports. I note that at a recent agriculture Council meeting, more than 20 countries out of the 27 member states opposed Commissioner Mandelson's strategy. If we want to muzzle Mr. Mandelson, I appeal to Deputy Ferris to, for God's sake, row in behind us——

I ask the Deputy to concentrate on the report.

——and give us the necessary machinery to muzzle him and to keep him under control, not by voting "No" but by voting "Yes". By voting "Yes" for the reform treaty, Ireland will demonstrate that we are a committed and leading member of the European Union. It is in Ireland's future economic interest and the interest of our agricultural and food sector that we vote "Yes" for this treaty.

Please, Deputy.

We cannot beat around the bush and try to get our point across in Europe unless we give our negotiating team the power. Mr. Aylward has produced the paper and I hope it will be put into action. Actions speak louder than words. It needs to be put into action.

We will back him to the last. It is a masterpiece as far as the sheep industry is concerned and I wish him the best of luck.

I ask Mr. Liam Aylward, MEP, to respond to the questions asked about the report.

Mr. Liam Aylward, MEP

I thank the members who have participated. At the outset I mentioned some of the organisations present in the Gallery. I do not believe I mentioned IBEC and I mentioned ICMSA instead of ICSA for which I apologise. I acknowledged the role they have all played in the consultation process.

A number of questions overlap here. The one thing we found was that there is no "one size fits all" solution here. While without doubt there is a certain Irish flavour on it, this is a European sheep and goat report. Deputy Doyle asked about the level of consultation and the support it had throughout Europe. We went to all the countries that mattered. In addition to agriculture ministers we met the organisations from those countries. We got their full support. When I refer to not having a "one size fits all" solution, I mean they had different emphases. I mention tagging in particular and I mention Article 69 and modulation. There are countries, including France, that claim they want to implement Article 69 to the benefit of the sheep industry. I do not know whether that will happen, but modulation certainly does not suit Ireland.

There was a menu of options available in the report as otherwise it would not have seen the light of day. That is why the report has flexibility. It needed to be there. All speakers referred to the implementation task force, which is essential. There is no point in doing the report unless we can carry it through. I hope we can get it through the plenary session in Strasbourg in July. I do not really want to return to discussing the Lisbon treaty. However, my hand would certainly be weakened in getting this report through if we vote "No". That is reasonable comment. I will leave it at that.

Regarding the CAP health check, it was clearly stated after the CAP reform in 2003 that any particular aspects of agriculture that suffered negatively as a result of the decision made would be seriously considered in the CAP health check. That will happen at the end of this month and will be dealt with over coming months, particularly under the French Presidency. Deputy Doyle asked how this would be supported. One of the key issues is the French Presidency, which is why we made the point of meeting the French agriculture Minister. At all levels the representative groups are very supportive. I would envisage the French driving this agenda during their Presidency. They can right the imbalance that was created. Deputy Sheehan mentioned the habitats directive and there are various references throughout. The French can lead that essential change.

Some of the members referred to the mountainous areas. We have the experience of what happened in the Burren where we were given advice that the cattle should be taken off the Burren. We were given advice based on the habitats directive that sheep should be taken off the mountains. Those decisions have now had to be reversed.

Deputy Creed asked how this would be financed, which is key. I knew there was no point in me seeking a direct headage payment under the CAP — I might as well have stayed at home. However, because of the environmental aspect of it we went down that road. Surely no other type of agriculture qualifies to the same extent as the sheep industry in both lowland and mountainous areas. The lowland is separate and is covered by the environmental maintenance scheme. The special breed mountainous sheep are in addition to that in recognition of their particular areas. They are separate but complementary. Obviously the way for the vast majority of the money to come is through Pillar 1.

I referred to Article 69 and to modulation. I referred to national and joint funding from the EU. Payment of the environmental grant must come from there. That is why the options are available to the different member states. Clearly at the moment all the amendments are in from the British industry and the British MEPs because they see no support from their own Government. However, they have the other options. We anticipate and hope we will get support either by co-financing from the Government or through the EU.

Deputy Creed already referred to the moneys that were not drawn down under Pillar 2. Considerable money is available under Pillar 2 and that money should be made available to the sheep industry. We have the rural development programmes, the REPS and the dairy hygiene scheme. Much money has not been drawn down. That money should be directed through the national governments in co-operation with the European Union. Those are the reasons for our approach.

Electronic tagging was mentioned a few times. Some people said it could be favourably regarded, but generally others were against it. When I served in the Department of Agriculture and Food there was a great desire to introduce electronic tagging. I could never see the reason for it. We have one of the greatest traceability systems in Europe. We talk about product coming from outside Europe and the conditions under which it is sent into Europe. We are way ahead of everybody. We constantly ask for the same standards for other countries from outside the European Union. While I have no problem with its introduction, the cost needs to be considered. Spain and Italy want to introduce it even though it is not proven as a system. I have received estimates for the cost of electronic tagging that vary between €2 and €10. The average profit margin per sheep to a farmer is approximately €4. If farmers need to pay another €4 or €5 for electronic tagging nobody would be left in the sheep industry. If the European Union wants to finance it we would by all means agree to it. However, it is on a voluntary basis for the member state. Those that want it can have it which is reasonable and fair.

How practical is electronic tagging? Members have all talked about the mountainous areas they come from. Can they imagine a 70 year old farmer on the side of a mountain when it is blowing snow and rain trying to deal with electronic tagging? That should be considered. Also how and when will they be read up on the side of a mountain? It is all very fine to come up with these schemes when sitting behind a desk, but they are difficult to implement in a practical way.

The implementation and the timescale will depend on how it is led by the French Presidency. The implementation task force has asked that for a two-year period the next four Presidencies, which will include the French one starting on 1 July, should be part of the implementation task force. They should report on a regular basis to the agriculture committee of which we are members, which will get new powers under the Lisbon treaty and to the Council of Ministers; so it is tied both ways. The Presidencies that will be involved in the implementation of this will be part of the process for two years. I hope our report will be in place, up and running and effective at that stage. That is the thinking behind it.

Deputy Christy O'Sullivan mentioned the price being paid to producers. I have dealt with that. The publication of a price series on the Internet will open up and bring transparency to the pricing system. Prices from all parts of the EU will be updated on a three-monthly basis. That is the reason for that. The Deputy also spoke about the price at the factory gate, to which I referred.

All members, including Senator John Carty, spoke about the decrease in sheep numbers. Obviously that is due to price. There is no question about that. It is a consequence of the prices farmers are getting for the product. We need to send a strong signal to sheep farmers. It was suggested that sheep farming is the poor relation. As far as I can tell, having spoken to colleagues and various people in Europe, sheep farming was not on the agenda before this report was started. It was on the agenda of the Council of Ministers for the first time after the report was started. There have been individual personal meetings. It has been discussed with the organisations representing the industry. It is constantly on the agenda. The Slovenian Presidency is focusing on it. Similar guarantees have been received from the forthcoming French Presidency.

The issue of lowland sheep was mentioned. I will come back to it again. That is the reason for the environmental maintenance scheme. The mountain scheme has been added on to that.

There is a lot of stuff in the report. We are constrained by space as we draw up the report. One can only use so many words in any report. One has to make an effective presentation. All members should read the appendices to the report. Almost everything that has been mentioned today is part and parcel of the report. It is obvious that it had to be written in bullet-point form for the purposes of presentation and consumption at the committee meeting.

I was asked about the sell-by date of frozen lamb coming from New Zealand. The marketing of such produce is one of the issues I want to talk about. We met officials from New Zealand, as well as Australia, which is also a major player in this sector. They requested the meeting, to their credit. We agreed to meet them, in line with the spirit of consultation. We learned a great deal from them about how they are marketing their produce throughout the world. We found out about what they are trying to do in the United States at present. We need to do that as well. The implementation task force will examine how we can do that. The lamb industry is not allowed to draw down €45 million under the food promotion programme. If we could ring-fence such moneys to promote our product, it would help us greatly to improve the quality of its image.

We can use the good lamb promotion experience of the three organisations in France. It is a wonderful product, as everyone has said — there is no question about it. Lamb can be difficult to cook, however. Young people find it expensive. It is not the type of product they eat. We need to market lamb products properly, for example by learning from the way New Zealand lamb is promoted in the United States. The New Zealand industry has formed joint ventures with companies in the US. They use caps, models and cooking overalls etc. Their slogan is "lean on lamb"— it is a good slogan. We have never done any of that and it is time for us to consider such an approach. That will be part of the report on the implementation process.

I agree with the valid point made by the consultants, Ernst & Young, about the lack of small abattoirs throughout the country. The same point is made in my report. Lambs and sheep from County Kerry and west Cork need to be taken to Leinster to be slaughtered. There is no doubt that is causing great inconvenience. I was glad to hear that the new Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Smith, is examining this matter. The report calls for more abattoirs to be made available. Issues such as local contact are important. As they often work in other jobs, sheep farmers may not have the time to meet the regulations which provide that lambs need to be weighed and taken to a particular factory on a particular day. Such small and practical matters are important because they can make a difference to people's everyday lives.

It is obvious that the global food shortage is a major issue that needs to be dealt with by the EU and the rest of the world. It presents the Union with an opportunity to start boosting the agriculture industry. We should not allow it to be further damaged. It is often suggested that it is not possible for our farmers to go out of production. However, it is worth pointing out that most farmers involved in the sheep industry are quite old. Young people are not interested. We have to examine that aspect of the matter seriously. If we think an industry cannot disappear overnight, we need to remind ourselves of what happened to the sugar industry, which disappeared in the space of 12 months or less. Many of the graphs are pointing downwards.

I have found, since I started compiling this report, that the people of Europe realise that serious action is needed. The need for action has been left on the back-burner for too long, unfortunately, with serious consequences. People in the industry have kept it alive and to the fore. The CAP health check and this report are key indicators of the state of the agriculture industry. The incoming Presidency, from 1 July next, committed itself long before the start of that Presidency to holding an international conference on this subject. When I met the Minister who will be responsible for the conference some months ago, it was clear that he was thinking far ahead because all the arrangements were in place. I believe we can be optimistic when we hear about such endeavours. It will not be easy, however.

I appreciate the support I have received from the joint committee. I have not answered the individual questions because many of them are overlapping. The same questions are being asked across the board. When I met representatives of the industry, I was asked the same questions and the same proposals were made. It is not difficult to identify the problems, but we need to find the solutions. The report we have discussed today will help us to find a solution. I hope to have a more positive report for the committee when I come back here at a future date.

On behalf of the committee, I thank Mr. Liam Aylward, MEP, for attending this meeting, making such an interesting presentation and answering the questions asked by members. It is important to have meetings like this one, with a Member of the European Parliament in attendance. Other MEPs are welcome to exchange their views with domestic parliamentarians and I hope they will do so. I thank Ms Claire Donlon for attending this meeting too. I thank her for the way she looked after us when we travelled to an EU meeting. I remind members that officials from the Sea-Fisheries Protection Authority will be in attendance at the next meeting of this committee, in two weeks time.

The joint committee adjourned at 1.40 p.m. until 11.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 28 May 2008.
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