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JOINT COMMITTEE ON ARTS, SPORT, TOURISM, COMMUNITY, RURAL AND GAELTACHT AFFAIRS debate -
Wednesday, 6 Oct 2004

Presentation by Irish Sports Council.

I welcome our guests, Mr. John Treacy, Mr. Finbar Kirwan and Mr. Peter Smith from the Irish Sports Council. On the day that is in it I would like, first of all, to extend congratulations to Catherina McKiernan for all her years of hard work and dedication on the sports field. Given that she announced her retirement last night, I just want to wish her well. I also want to take this opportunity to congratulate the Paralympic team and Cian O'Connor for their tremendous displays over the past weeks and months. The committee intends to host a dinner for the Paralympic team now that it is back in Ireland.

I welcome the sports council members to the committee today. After the Athens Olympiad we decided to review the issue of sport in general to decide where the emphasis should be and to examine the Irish performance in Athens. Simultaneously, we are seeking to explore the overall objective of sports bodies in Ireland in promoting sport at multiple levels from schoolyard to the Olympic field. Is the best solution to divide available funds between the general promotion of sports from youth to adulthood and international athletics without funding any group to total success or is it preferable to make long-term decisions about the goals of sport in Ireland and, accordingly, focus funding in particular directions? Those are the types of issues we had in mind and therefore we have invited the Irish Sports Council as one of the key players involved to share its views on this with the committee.

I have an opening statement and thank the committee for the opportunity to address it today. The public is passionate about sport and cares deeply about our athletes and how they perform on the world stage. It is important that you, as public representatives, understand the supports put in place to ensure that our athletes can reach their potential on the world stage.

The Irish Sports Council was established in 1999. Part of its remit is to encourage the achievement of excellence in sport. The Sydney 2000 Olympic Games followed shortly after our establishment. The Irish performances at those games were generally perceived as being sub-standard, despite Sonia O'Sullivan's outstanding silver medal, and symptomatic of failings within the Irish sports system.

At the request of the then Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, Deputy McDaid, the Irish Sports Council undertook a review of Ireland's performance at Sydney 2000. Carried out by an independent, international consultancy the Sydney review made 29 recommendations. These recommendations represent the basis for the majority of the high performance programmes run by the Irish Sports Council since 2000.

There were two key strands within the review. First, there was a focus on athlete preparation and second, there was analysis of relationships that existed between the various bodies and agencies involved in the Olympic team preparation. Among the recommendations was the requirement to establish multi-sport training camps, which would allow athletes to prepare for the Olympic village. There was also a directive to establish a clear and transparent process for team management appointments by each governing body. Focus also centred on the role of the Olympic Council of Ireland over the critical last two weeks of preparation leading into the games.

Some 28 of the 29 recommendations were put in place. A decision was taken not to move forward with the 29th, which was the establishment of an Irish hospitality suite in Athens. The implementation of these recommendations represents a critical step forward for Irish Olympic sport for the future, Ireland now has a framework for Olympic preparation and the establishment of key relationships will ensure the excellent progress continues.

A key recommendation from the Sydney review was the requirement of the Irish Sports Council to develop a high performance strategy. Published in December 2001 it recognised that Ireland's approach to elite sport was falling behind most of its competitors and there was a need for a co-ordinated and strategic approach to create real long-term improvement.

The Government endorsed the high performance strategy with additional funding of €3 million to ensure its implementation in 2002. The council established a new high performance unit to deliver on the key aspects of the Sydney review and the high performance strategy. The unit established high performance programmes within targeted Olympic sports to ensure that all our elite athletes achieve their full potential at world level.

A key outcome and notable success of the review was the establishment of the Olympic performance committee and Paralympic performance committee. The committees were set up to ensure the most effective co-ordination of activity to support the performance of Irish teams through their preparation and training for the games. The committees met on a monthly basis and functioned as jointly chaired working sessions. The focus of these committees was on preparation for the Olympic and Paralympic games and covered specific areas such as training and pre-training camps, heat and environment strategies, and continuity of care for athletes.

It is anticipated that given the success of the committees, they will reconvene later this year and focus their efforts on Beijing 2008. I want to pay tribute to the Paralympic Council of Ireland for the huge effort it has put in over the past three years.

At the end of 2001 it was clear that an additional funding scheme was required to enable our athletes to compete at the highest level in Athens. The Athens enhancement programme was established in 2002 to channel investment directly to those sports and individuals likely to be competing at the 2004 Olympic and Paralympic games. The funding provided was immediately targeted at sports best placed to perform well in Athens. Specifically, professional world-class support staff, for example coaches, were hired to ensure our athletes were training and competing at the highest possible level.

The planning process was a critical component of the Athens enhancement programme and all governing bodies in receipt of funding were required to complete performance plans. Performance directors were employed by the sports to ensure the complete delivery of the performance plans.

For the first time, sports were required to establish elite squads with a view to Athens. The plans also required the establishment of competition and sport science programmes. Training camps were established in Seville, Cyprus, Zagreb and Northern Greece. These camps allowed athletes to maintain high level training and competition while acclimatising to conditions similar to those in Athens. The planning process involved detailed discussions between the performance directors and the council. The squads developed clear performance targets and were supported by directly employed professional coaches and support staff. A key element of the process was the full integration of sport science into performance plans. The National Coaching and Training Centre in Limerick was centrally involved in the delivery of sports science services. Total funding for Olympic sport over the three year period was over €7.7 million. This includes payments of €695,000 to the PCI and €1.44 million to the OCI. A detailed breakdown by individual sport is detailed in the document we have provided to the committee. The performance planning process represents a key step forward for Irish Olympic sport and will be the basis for future athlete preparation as we target Beijing and beyond.

The council is also committed to providing individual athlete support through the international carding scheme. The scheme was introduced in 1998 to provide a range of supports, both financial and non-financial, to assist Ireland's most talented athletes to realise their potential at the highest international levels. The majority of participants in Athens have been supported on the scheme since their days in the junior ranks and it is to be hoped that athletes supported on this year's junior and development categories will be representing Ireland in Beijing and beyond.

Criteria for qualification onto the scheme are agreed on a sport by sport basis with the relevant NGB, national governing body. Any athlete who meets the criteria is automatically included on the scheme. The scheme provides financial support to those athletes who need such assistance to meet necessary out-of-pocket expenses related to training, coaching, competition and general living expenses not otherwise covered by their NGB. A key feature of the scheme is the provision of a network of service providers nationally and internationally. Elite competitors have access to top quality science and medical support adjacent to their training base. All carded athletes are entitled to access to these services free of charge. Payments to athletes in 2004 were in excess of €2 million.

There were two stated ambitions in advance of Athens 2004. First, we made a commitment that the Irish team would be the best prepared ever and this was accomplished. Each performance plan was implemented satisfactorily and ensured that our team was significantly better prepared than any of its predecessors. This was achieved by reforming the key relationships involved in that preparation.

Second, we intended to improve on our Sydney performance with a view to Beijing and beyond. On close examination the Irish Olympic team produced some exceptional results. Cian O'Connor led the way with an individual gold medal. This alone would put us ahead of Sydney but the improvements ran much deeper. Kevin Babbington had a fifth place finish and was unlucky not to medal in the same event. Ciarán Power had an excellent ride in the cycling road race finishing in 13th place. Derek Burnett finished 7th in shooting, which was an improvement from 18th place in Sydney. This reflects well on the training programmes put in place. It should also be noted that Ireland had a number of young athletes competing who will reach their best in Beijing. Notable among these were Adrian O'Dwyer in athletics, Alistair Cragg in athletics and Andy Lee in boxing, who are all potentially in the mix for Beijing.

It is acknowledged that there were a number of performances that were disappointing and no one feels that more than the athletes themselves. However, the Irish Sports Council is satisfied that the steps it has taken since Sydney have supported our athletes in a meaningful way. Indeed, Sam Lynch, the world lightweight rowing champion, described it best when he stated that a high performance system has been put in place that supports Irish athletes with expertise, services and finance; it allows him to focus on his rowing, a significant and welcome advance.

At the Paralympics, Ireland produced a very satisfactory performance; four medals, three silver and one bronze, met expectations set prior to the games and the team also recorded ten personal bests, two season's best and one world record. It should be noted that there was a 50% increase in the number of athletes competing since Sydney and the volume of world and Paralympic records points to ever increasing standards at Paralympic level. Through targeted performance planning, however, Ireland is well placed to maintain its place in the medal rankings in Beijing.

It should also be noted that Irish athletes supported by the system described above have recorded outstanding performances at world-class level in boxing, rowing, sailing, athletics, shooting, cycling and Paralympic sport since 2002.

As it considers its preparations for Beijing the council, in conjunction with the OCI and PCI, has already commissioned the Athens review. This review will analyse Ireland's performance at the Athens games and assess the improvement in structures and overall preparation of the Olympic and Paralympic teams. A steering group, chaired by Dan Flinter, is in place and an outside consultant has been appointed. The findings and outcomes of the Athens review will feed into the quadrennial plan for Beijing, which is currently being developed by all the relevant organisations. All work carried out on the quadrennial plan will be in partnership with the OCI and PCI. The aim of the review is to produce an independent assessment of the preparation and performance of the Irish teams at the Athens Olympic and Paralympic Games in 2004. It will also identify the strengths and weaknesses of all aspects of the programmes throughout the four-year cycle. It is expected the review will detail specific recommendations regarding the development of a programme for Beijing in 2008 and that the report will be published by the end of the year.

In summary, we believe that significant progress has been made since Sydney 2000. We understand the concerns expressed by many as the Athens games progressed. There was also informed and supportive comment in the media, urging greater appreciation of and support for our athletes in Athens and acknowledging the significant progress that has been made in a short time. We acknowledge there is a need to continue the development of a well structured and resourced high-performance system. Irish sport is seeking to succeed quickly in an increasingly competitive and intensely focused sporting world where very large investments are being made by other countries to gain success.

Ireland continues to accelerate its programme of delivery to targeted Olympic sports and is committed to competing at the highest level. We should not lose sight, however, of the requirement to take a long-term approach to athlete support and that equivalent nations continue to raise the bar on both funding and expertise. It is felt that the framework for success in the future is in place and that Irish athletes will continue to compete effectively at the highest levels.

Mr. Treacy stated that the high performance committee set up after Sydney was chaired by Dan Flinter from 2001. I also note from the submission that an independent international consultant was employed to deliver the Sydney review. If the current chairman was involved in the delivery of the key outcomes of the Sydney review, will this review of Athens be an independent consultant-led review similar to that of Sydney? Will the same personnel be investigating their own outcomes?

The Olympics seem to be becoming a smaller and smaller event, so that any country can host it. The team numbers are decreasing for the event, with the exception of the Paralympic team which is expanding. Most other countries seem to be consolidating. Pat Hickey stated that a once-off qualification of an A standard is probably not enough and that we should increase the number of A standard times so that people can qualify in a stronger fashion. Some athletes are participating in sports where the season is just beginning, for example, Maria McCambridge. If Mr. Treacy agrees with the idea of multiple achievement of the A standard, how will people participate in enough competitions to meet those qualifying marks? What other supports can be given to support the athletes to achieve these standards that are beyond international standards? If one is to reach the standard one will try to peak towards that but how can one peak again when it comes to the Olympics? Does it mean that people going to the Olympics leave their best performance in a qualifying location? Will it put them under more pressure to move into drug use? That leads me to the third question where the Athens enhancement programme and the international carding scheme has given significant moneys to some athletes who have not been able to compete at the end of the day because they have been found to have taken drugs. I have an obvious case in mind. Should criteria for funding include a clear complete drugs test? I appreciate there is an argument that some people may only take certain drugs close to the time but it should not be the case that a person who has been seriously invested in might get caught on the track or close to the track, as happened this time around.

The Sydney review recommended that all involved should manage the expectations of the Irish public. Everybody has come around to the view that there were unreasonably high expectations for the performance of the Irish team in Athens, despite it being our best funded and best prepared team with the possibility of medals in five different sports. Were those expectations managed as recommended? I do not believe so, especially when one considers the statements made and the comparisons with countries of the same size as Ireland, for example, New Zealand which in Sydney got one gold and three bronze and in Athens got two gold and two silver. Perhaps Mr. Treacy would respond directly to those four questions following which I shall invite other committee members to put their questions.

To respond to the first question, Dan Flinter chaired our high performance strategy. He also chaired the Athens review but he is not involved in the Irish Sports Council in an ongoing way. Obviously he has great expertise in chairing various groups. We have used outside consultants, Wartons consultants, who are carrying out the review and reporting back to the committee. There is no question about the independence of the review. Essentially, there will be detailed briefings with the NGBs and the athletes and questionnaires going out to everyone. Following an accumulation of those interviews and feedback from the athletes, the NGBs, the Olympic Council of Ireland, the PCI, the NCTC and ourselves we will arrive at the recommendations. The recommendations will be the blueprint for our work for 2008. There is no question about Dan Flinter's independence in this area.

The second question related to A standards. The Irish Sports Council supported the Olympic Council of Ireland in terms of A standards being set for the Olympic games. We think that was the right decision. I am aware Pat Hickey has talked about reaching the A standards a number of times. That would make it almost impossible for Irish athletes to get to the games because as the Chairman said they might have to peak many different times to qualify. What we want them to do is to peak to qualify and, obviously, to peak in the games as well. We may be raising the bar far too high. It is not the policy of the OCI but it was mentioned. The A standard is a good standard going forward and that is what we should gauge ourselves against because that standard is set at world level.

On the drugs issue, the Irish Sports Council currently links drug testing to our carding scheme. In essence, for an athlete in receipt of funding from the council, part of the criteria is that he or she has to inform the Irish Sports Council of his or her whereabouts and where he or she will train in any part of the world and we have to be able to contact that person any day of the year. That is the type of information that is linked to funding. If athletes do not provide details of their whereabouts, they do not get the funding. In the case mentioned, we had a positive test. That positive test is before Athens and the council will write to the athlete to see whether we can get the money back. That is an issue we will pursue.

The expectations issue was managed well. If one had read the sporting pages during the Olympic games it would be clear they were very fair to the athletes. In essence, the sporting media had a good idea of the expectations and the coverage in the sports media was good. The news people would not be as well educated. They come in the week of the Olympic Games and we do not see them again for another few years. It is hard to manage that. If one compares us to New Zealand, it has had a high performance system in place for 25 years and is reaping the benefit of a very elaborate system. We started from scratch in 2000 and have said all along it would take us 15 to 20 years to catch up with other countries. We have a long road to travel. We have put some systems in place and we need to continue to do that. As I have said on many occasions, it has to start in the schools.

The Chairman has asked us not to be repetitive. Like any good chairman she has asked some of the pertinent questions. In regard to the Sydney review, Mr. Treacy said that 28 of the 29 recommendations have been put in place. When the Sydney review group was established it was highly critical of the performance at Sydney and compared us to New Zealand and five other countries with similar populations and showed our dismal performance on the chart of medals. Will the Athens review group be as scathing of our performance in Athens and has our performance improved? Will that group make the same recommendations? Have we got the right recipe?

One of the recommendations, when we invited the Irish Sports Council and the Olympic Council of Ireland to come before the committee at the time of a major turf war between both organisations, was close partnership and co-operation between the Irish Sports Council, the Olympic Council of Ireland, the Olympic committee and the national governing bodies of sport. While it appears that has happened, perhaps Mr. Treacy would confirm it.

On the high performance issue, I recall Dan Flinter produced a report in late 2001. I remember it very well because on the day I produced a good policy document on sport, for whatever reason, Dan Flinter produced a policy document on elite sport. How much of that policy has been implemented? One of the key recommendations was to set up an institute of sport. I recall an expert was brought over from Scotland. The reason I remember that is that he lived for a year and a half in the B & B where I stay while in Dublin. What has happened to the institute of sport? Surely the National Coaching and Training Centre in Limerick could fulfil that function. Why not give it that function? The centre is on the grounds of the university and has all the facilities. It is adjacent to the physical education college. Why not give them that responsibility? Why was the institute of sport not set up? If we want to nurture our elite sports people we have to do it through that system. There is one in Jordanstown, in Northern Ireland, which operates very successfully. There is one in Australia, which is extremely successful. Dublin City University, through Dr. Niall Moyna, is making an effort to introduce such a scheme. He has a number of very good athletes in the college but he is getting very little support. That is important because we are talking about a high performance strategy. Mr. Flinter was employed to draw it up. The main recommendation was an institute of sport. That did not happen. Mr. Flinter has now been assigned to draw up a report on the performance of our athletes in Athens. Does Mr. Treacy believe he will refer back to that report and recommend an institute of sport here if we are to be successful?

What is Mr. Treacy's view on the carding scheme? I know people who benefit from the scheme, and a few thousand euros can be very important to an athlete who is preparing full-time to improve his or her performance. Is it the Irish Sports Council's view that the scheme should be more focused? Does it believe it is too widely focused currently? My memory is that some people get €1,000 while others get €30,000 but sometimes it is the elite athletes who get the €30,000. Those people have it made and in some cases are probably earning a considerable amount of money. Is the sports council of the view that we should target the funding on some of our better junior athletes and people with obvious potential rather than spreading it across a large number of athletes?

The Sports Council targeted five sports in particular for special funding. Will resources be targeted on those five sports — track and field, equestrian, shooting, sailing and boxing — for the Beijing Olympics or will it increase the number of sports targeted? That question must be clarified.

On the issue of inviting Mr. De Lima to Ireland, which I called for at the time of the incident, Pat Hickey was very positive about it at the time; he said he would appear at the Dublin city marathon. I wonder if that is possible. I understand Mr. De Lima has achieved a great deal of notoriety in Brazil and that the President of Brazil has given him the sum of money he would have received if he had won a gold medal. He has become quite a celebrity and he may be thankful in one way to Fr. Horan. However, we should invite him here and apologise to him for what happened because of the Irish connection. If he cannot come for the Dublin city marathon it might be possible to bring him to one of the rugby international matches but the issue should not be allowed die. It would be wonderful to have him here.

Paul McGinley got a tremendous reception in Croke Park when he walked out on the pitch with the Ryder Cup. It is on a big occasion like that that we can demonstrate the pride the country feels.

I want to raise two other issues. If we are to make progress in this area we have to start in primary schools. I am probably more passionate than others about this issue because I was a PE teacher. The school in which I worked had a programme covering all schools in the catchment area, which fed back to our school. That programme operated very successfully for eight years. That was 22 years ago, and I do not know if other people are doing something similar but one can see in young people of six or seven years of age whether they will become athletes. If a youngster is given a golf club or a racket one can see immediately whether they have the natural talent to play that sport. One can look at somebody running and know they have the capacity to become a runner. I am sure somebody recognised Mr. Treacy at a very young age.

The other area of real possibility is that of women in sport. This committee produced a report recently which we hope we can discuss with the witnesses some time, either here or in the sports council. The potential of sports women has been under estimated and I would like Mr. Treacy to respond to that because I know he is positively disposed towards that view. Women must be encouraged, nurtured and supported, just like their male counterparts. The report makes a number of recommendations which deal directly with the sports council and I would like Mr. Treacy to give a commitment today, without going through them, that the sports council will consider them carefully and try to put them in place where possible.

I, too, join the Chairm an in congratulating Cian O'Connor but we must acknowledge that the horse in question was bred in Germany. It was not a victory for Irish breeding. Only four or five horses that reached the finals in the Olympics were Irish bred. I believe there were only two Irish bred horses in the Aga Khan competition at the RDS in Ballsbridge this year. There is a major problem with breeding of horses here for show-jumping that must be addressed. It was marvellous that we won a gold medal in the Olympics. It showed great horsemanship. It saved the pride of Ireland and that of many other people as well but it also raises fundamental questions about our breeding policy.

The Sydney review dealt with the relationships between the various organisations. On the passing of the Act it was established in July 1999 and in that sense we were fairly new on the scene. The relationship with the Olympic Council of Ireland was at best frosty leading into the Sydney Olympics. A large part of the Sydney review dealt with relationships between the governing bodies — the Olympic Council of Ireland and our own organisation. Thankfully, the relationship has worked well. The Olympic performance committee was put in place. That was a mechanism whereby the Olympic Council of Ireland and the Irish Sports Council sat down together to thrash out issues such as preparation of the team in terms of training camps, heat and acclimatisation and other aspects of athletes' preparation. The relationship got off to a rocky start but over the past three years it has gelled and we have come a long way. The relationship was very strong in Athens and we look forward to strengthening the relationship between the Olympic Council of Ireland and the Paralympic Council for the Beijing Games. The Sydney review dealt with that.

The Athens review will have a different focus but without anticipating the outcome it will probably decide there are issues to be dealt with by governing bodies going forward, and that we need to continue to strengthen them.

Deputy Deenihan highlighted the issue of the institute of sport, which is something the sports council would like to see established. The Government allocates €3 million to us on an annual basis to implement the programme. We did not have the resources to set up the institute but we have put some mechanisms in place, including a high performance unit headed by Mr. Finbarr Kirwan, who is here. That unit deals with the high performance planning with the governing bodies, which is a critical part of what any institute would do.

The National Coaching and Training Centre deals with the co-ordination of sports science and sports medicine. One of the criticisms made of the Minneapolis Community and Technical College, the MCTC, is that it is probably trying to do too much. That is something we will have to examine. The Deputy is right to say we need to put a proper institute structure in place. This came up in the high performance strategy dealing with Belfast, Dublin and Limerick. A strong base for Irish athletes is needed. DCU has a strong sports science element as well and it supports athletes in a very meaningful way. We will certainly be a player in terms of some of the personnel it has in place.

We are currently reviewing the carding scheme. I agree it is too broad. We need to be more targeted. With the Athens enhancement programme, we targeted athletes leading up to Athens. A young fencer tried to qualify and was very close. We targeted some funding for her as we did for Derek Burnett in shooting. He needed more support, so the Athens enhancement programme targeted him in terms of more financial support and all the components to enable him to train for those Olympic Games. The Athens enhancement programme focused on some individual athletes.

With regard to junior and development levels, we need to focus on those people for Beijing and beyond. As I said, there are some very good people on the way up, including Andy Lee in boxing and Adrian O'Dwyer and Alistair Cragg in athletics. We need to continue to support them in a very focused way. The majority of our athletes — only one or two make substantial money — whether rowers, canoeists or cyclists, are not making any money. Their main funding source is really through the carding scheme. It would be wrong to say many athletes make a lot of money as only one or two do. However, we need to narrow the focus. The carding scheme is being reviewed and we hope to have that completed in 2005. The focus is perhaps too broad. At world-class level it is fine. At junior and development level it is fine too but the international criteria is perhaps too broad and we need to look at that.

In regard to the five targeted sports, the Athens review will have some impact on that. In essence, we see ourselves continuing to support those five sports. Obviously, we will examine performance in those sports very carefully in terms of Athens. We will also probably extend support in other areas as we have done. Canoeing and cycling are included as well. We do not want it to be the case that a targeted sport cannot be removed from the programme. If the standards fall within a sport, it should fall from the programme. We want to raise the bar for the national governing bodies of sport, the NGBs, as well as the athletes. That is something we need to bear in mind.

In regard to the Brazilian marathon runner, at this stage people are probably asking who won the gold and the silver medals. From my experience, if I was knocked out of kilter at 20 miles, I do not know if I would have been able to recover and continue. He is a marvellous athlete. I met the Brazilian ambassador and he is well aware that an invitation has been extended to the marathon runner, Mr. de Lima. I hope he will accept it. Pat Hickey would probably be able to extend that invitation. We would certainly welcome it, as would the Minister. We would certainly like him to come to Ireland. From what I gather, he is very pleased to have got the bronze medal. It was a fantastic performance.

I totally agree with the Deputy in regard to primary school — it all starts there. We need to encourage schools to ensure the basics are provided to children during school time, whether physical education, sport, physical activity or whatever. Children should get an opportunity to participate during the school day at least three times per week rather than only once per week. The basic skills should be taught to teachers. The new physical education curriculum is being implemented this year, which we welcome. The Irish Sports Council will continue to support it in a meaningful way by offering the Buntús programme through our local sports partnership. That is something which has been very successful and which we want to broaden. That would help but the lead needs to come from the Department of Education and Science in order to have meaningful physical education in schools. That is something about which we feel strongly. I look forward to reading the recommendations on women in sport. Without making any commitments, we will give it every consideration and I would like to meet the committee in that regard.

Irish-bred horses are really an issue for the Irish Horse Board. We have worked closely with the Equestrian Federation of Ireland over the past two years. We are happy with the advances being made by the riders and so on and we plan to do more over the next four years. We targeted the federation as having the potential to get Olympic medals for us and we are very pleased it delivered for us. We will work with it to put the framework in place so that more riders will come through. The Irish Horse Board also has a key role to play in terms of horse breeding.

I thank Mr. John Treacy and his team for coming in. I also wish to be associated with the other speakers in congratulating Cian O'Connor and all the participants at the Athens Olympics. They went there to improve their times and to represent the country, which they did well.

The argument has been made that the qualifying standards are set too early given the Olympic dates. In America, maybe 20 or 30 people are within the qualifying time and are all vying for a place in trials. In Ireland, only one or two athletes try to attain the qualifying mark. That is a problem for athletes and many have commented on it. If their organisation supports them and the Irish Sports Council supplements them financially, maybe that should be reviewed. I know athletes who are well below the international standard cannot go to the Olympics. To give them a certain period within which to peak, the period should be shorter. As it stands, I understand they must qualify within a year. That should be looked at.

The number of people seeking to become international athletes is, to a degree, hindered by the lack of international competitions held in Ireland. We do not seem to have the international meets we had in the 1960s and 1970s. The Olympic champions of those decades visited and world records were broken on almost a monthly basis. It is not that we could not organise such international meets. Mr. Treacy proudly represented Ireland in the world cross-country championship held here. We do not seem to be able to organise international meets and to attract the international stars who would generate the interest at primary school level about which we spoke. We see soccer, rugby and Gaelic players and hurlers on television every day of the week but athletics does not seem to get the same exposure on RTE or on any of the other channels. Does Mr. Treacy see that as a problem in generating interest among youngsters starting off? In primary school, first impressions are always the most important and it is where one picks one's initial sport, although they might later be diverted to other sports. The initial attraction is the most significant one. Why is it that we cannot attract international stars? Is it because of finances or facilities?

I recall major events on the European circuit being shown on television on Friday nights — I refer to the meetings at which athletes were competing for gold bars — in the past at which there were many international stars present. However, these are no longer shown. There is no television coverage of the different disciplines which require it in order to attract young people from an early age. There are also counter-attractions in terms of other sports being shown on television.

As regards the Athens review, I understand that forms were sent out to athletes and that there was no person-to-person interaction between them and the review committee. Mr. Treacy stated in his submission that such interaction would take place. It is important that there should be such interaction so that athletes can explain their position and their disappointment in not achieving what they had set out to achieve.

The carding system will provide a first step. As with any organisation, there is a first step to be taken and a direction to be pointed out and people are interested. From small beginnings and in a short period, the Irish Sports Council has made a major impact in terms of providing direction. At the recent Olympics, there were no arguments between the Olympic Council of Ireland and the Irish Sports Council. It is apparent, therefore, that the Sydney report had an impact and ensured that earlier problems were erased. The Irish Sports Council should take on board some of the Deputy Deenihan's and the Chairman's comments regarding the provision of further sports grants here and attracting television coverage in respect of international meetings.

There are difficulties at present at primary school level because facilities are not being made available. This must be addressed and I hope the new curriculum will do so. It is important to encourage children at an early stage and it is vital to ensure that there is televising of international sports meetings.

As regards the A qualifying standard, the issue really related to timing and the cut-off date. That was a matter for the Olympic Council of Ireland. The authorities in some sports, particularly athletics and swimming, were of the opinion that the cut-off date was too soon. I am of the same opinion. In fairness to the Olympic Council of Ireland, the cut-off date was extended by a couple of weeks and that was of substantial help. Maria McCambridge qualified as a result. The easiest and best way to qualify for the Olympic Games is to do so a year in advance. All one needs to then is to focus on the date in the following year when one will be competing in the games. That is the best way to proceed in terms of preparation for the Olympics because one's focus is on the games themselves and not on qualification. That makes matters a great deal easier. The majority of people scrambling to achieve the A standard at the last minute do not perform when they compete in the Olympic Games because they have already peaked. If one can qualify a year previously, one is in a good position.

The Deputy hit the nail on the head regarding attracting events to Ireland, etc. It is an interesting question because in the past Olympic champions competed in international meets in Ireland. That day is gone, however, because it would cost a fortune to hold such meets here now. We do not have the market in Ireland to sustain a meet of that nature. There are lower grade meets held in Cork and Dublin which enable Irish athletes to compete against their international counterparts.

The Deputy is correct in his observations about Olympic sports and the fact that children do not see them. In essence, they are and will always be minority sports. Many young people participate in the three major field sports, namely, rugby, Gaelic games and soccer. From the Irish Sports Council's perspective, that is good because we want them to participate in sport. However, the national governing bodies of the Olympic sports face a constant battle to win the hearts and minds of young people in terms of encouraging them to participate in those sports. The strength of the field sports has an effect but that is an issue for the governing bodies of the Olympic sports. By making these somewhat more attractive and appointing development officers, it is hoped that they can attract more people.

In terms of track and field, there are probably more women participating in Olympic sports because men have a tendency to play team sports. That is an issue we must consider in terms of Ireland competing at the Olympic Games, particularly, as already stated, the majority of our athletes take part in the three most prominent team sports. We face a challenge in that regard.

The Deputy correctly recognised that when a junior person comes on to the carding scheme, it is a recognition of achievement. While the funding might be small, they are being recognised for the first time and they appreciate that. The funding they receive goes a long way and we like to acknowledge their efforts in a meaningful fashion. I agree with the Deputy's comments in respect of the position in primary schools.

Mr. Treacy indicated in his introduction that there were two strands to the review. As Deputy Deenihan stated, there was an analysis of the relationships that exist between the various bodies and agencies involved in the Olympic preparation. Is there a genuine unity between the organisations, particularly as one often reads in the media about friction arising? Is the funding of €7.7 million over three years adequate or is further funding required.

The relationship between the Olympic Council of Ireland and the Irish Sports Council is strong and we have worked well together. There is always a question mark over unity between national governing bodies of sport. What happens between and within sporting bodies is more political than politics itself. Issues will always arise between governing bodies of sport. We are trying to help in a meaningful way by supporting national governing bodies and putting in place with them professional people who will allow them to increase their capabilities and capacities. I refer here to appointing chief executives, performance directors and coaches in order to support the volunteer effort. It is important for us to support the NGBs in a meaningful way.

Issues arise in various sports and one arose in showjumping before the games. Fortunately the matter was resolved and we went on to win a gold medal. However, there will always be issues with governing bodies because that is the nature of volunteer sport. We certainly try to help by putting in place professionals to work with the volunteers.

We are grateful for the funding we have received. It has increased from £9.5 million in 1999 to €30.7 million now. That is a substantial increase across the board in terms of our programmes. We always need more funding but we appreciate that which has been provided by Government. It is significant money. It is needless to say that we will always seek more because the various programmes need it and because of the importance of sport and the need for high performance levels, the fact that sport is vital at under age level, in view of the position held by the three major field sports and the importance of the local sports partnership. There is always a need for more but we try to do the best we can and we are grateful to the Minister and his Department for their efforts in acquiring the funding with which we have been provided.

I welcome the representatives from the Irish Sports Council and compliment them on their work. I wish them well in the future. One does not need to say that John Treacy is a sporting icon in his own right and a very good role model for young sports people. I wonder how Dr. Pat O'Callaghan might react if he were here this morning. The type of clinical analysis where sport and personal achievement is concerned involves looking back on the glory days of boxing with Fred Teidt, Harry Perry or Spider Caldwell.

This is a whole new development. The question must be asked as to whether we are making commodities out of our athletes and is the whole spirit of the Olympics being downgraded to one of personal effort and personal achievement? Are we pushing athletes to the point where they appear to have to justify their grant-aid or position themselves for grant-aid the following year? It seems there is something very clinical about this. One picture that always sticks in my mind is Ronnie Delaney going over the finishing line. I do not think it will ever disappear from my memory. I always thought of it as his own achievement. Obviously we benefit from it as a nation. One cannot underestimate the morale boost from such an event.

I believe we are going into this in a very business-like manner. I understand there must be accountability for finance, which should be well used. I also accept that anyone who carries the flag of the nation has an extended responsibility. I still look back at some of the pressures athletes had to go through over the years either because of inter-organisational rivalry or the sponsorship potential and so on. I am thinking of the relationship between that and the real amateurs on the ground. How can we inspire these people and ensure that they get off to a right start so that they are not under some kind of misapprehension as to what is expected of them? I know we are out there in a big world and that training has changed and so on. In the past, this type of analysis would probably take place either at the cross-roads, in the creamery or in the pub. I do not know how Deputy Deenihan will feel about what I will say next, but I wonder will we soon have a discussion on what happened to Mayo this year. There appears to be something very strange and weird about this type of analysis.

It will happen in a pub.

I know you have Kerry goats' milk and so on. The way we are positioning sport, including the expectations and pressures on individual athletes, must be counter-productive. I know athletes cannot avoid becoming media personalities but there are some unsavoury aspects involved in the Olympics. I am thinking of enhancement drugs and so on. I will not go into this aspect in any detail, but because of the fact that it is so widespread and there is such media interest in this aspect, I would like to think that the Irish Sports Council would focus on the whole question of the real spirit of the Olympics.

Another thing that struck me when examining the figures is whether there is a relationship between the level of grant aid and the level of achievement. I am looking at the equestrian funding of €828,000, which is in the higher echelons, and we know how well we did in the equestrian area. Is there any relationship between that or is there just greater expenditure involved?

Senator Phelan touched on the relationship between organisations. I accept what John Treacy said that some of it can be healthy. However, much of it can be unhealthy. I wonder to what extent the voice of athletes is heard in that regard because ultimately they are paramount in the discussion which is taking place. The structures are important and help, but obviously athletes' views must be paramount. For this reason, I would like to think that their viewpoint is always put forward. I presume it is but I want to make that point.

There are always non-winners as well as winners — I would not call them losers. We must be particularly careful that these people do not feel they are being held accountable for being a non-winner on a given occasion. This would discourage others in the long term. I would like to think that the whole spirit of personal effort and personal achievement will be recognised in its own right. I would like the sports council to keep this aspect centre stage.

Pat O'Callaghan and Ronnie Delaney were great icons of Irish sport. They did it their own way through hard work, effort and toil. Ronnie in particular achieved on the back of a scholarship in Villanova University in the United States. If I can go back to my own running days, this largely developed in Providence College. To a large degree, when I prepared for 1984, I did it my way, without any State support. I was challenged to ensure that I put the supports in place to support myself leading into the games. I needed to get the finance, for which I got a sponsor, but I also needed to put the sports science and sports medicine aspect together to support myself leading into Los Angeles. I put this together and I got the coaching support myself.

All the elements I put in place was done with great effort and great planning because there was no system in place. We might be clinical in terms of the way we approach things because we are professional. What we are saying is that we need to put in place supports to support Irish athletes in a meaningful way and so that they themselves do not have to put in place all the systems. As Sam Lynch said when he won the world championships, the only thing he had to worry about that year was rowing. He did not have to worry about coaching, planning or international competition because it was all done for him.

We are clinical in that we need to put in place the supports in a meaningful way. We need to ensure that athletes have all the supports they need. He or she should have the funding, coaching, planning, international competition and training camps in place. Athletes should not have to think about these aspects. They should only have to concentrate on their performance and body. This is the only way one will succeed at world class level. All our competitors throughout the world are doing the same thing. What we are doing in Ireland is putting in place the supports for our best athletes. If we do not do so, we will be left even further behind. It might be clinical but it is the way forward. The athletes themselves appreciate the effort which is being put in place.

The Senator raised the issue of athletes who did not perform at the Olympic Games. The Sports Council appreciates their efforts. Some of the media comments filter back to Athens, Sydney or wherever the games are held. The comments made about individual athletes cause deep hurt. They set themselves up to perform to the best of their ability and to invest their time and effort in the sport, therefore, such comments hurt them deeply. We appreciate the efforts they put in and the fact that they do their very best for Ireland. This is a valid point and there is no harm repeating it here today.

On the drugs question, whenever money is involved in sport, drugs will always be an issue. The Sports Council must do its utmost to ensure there is a comprehensive doping programme in place, which there is. We are fully subscribed to the world anti-doping code, which came in this year. It has already been passed in Ireland. It has been endorsed and implemented by the Minister and ourselves and we are pleased that we have made good progress in that regard. We strongly support the efforts of the World Anti-Doping Agency and we will do our utmost to weed out any drug taking in Irish sport. We have had our successes but we always need to be vigilant. The temptation is always there and we need to realise that Ireland is not different from any other country. We will be tested on the issue and we need to continue to be vigilant. We need to target athletes. If we feel there is any doubt about any athlete we will target him or her. That is how we operate the programme. We do not make any excuses for it.

In the carding scheme there is a direct correlation between performance and funding. If an athlete achieves a certain standard he or she gets an appropriate level of funding. That is how we do our business. We will be supporting the FAI in a meaningful way and we look forward to working with them.

A code of conduct is laid down for an athlete. Are the consequences to funding if he or she is found to misbehave clearly explained? We should not be critical of athletes who performed for us in Athens. We should be very proud of them. They went out and did their level best to bring home honours to the country. They failed on this occasion but I feel it will come good for us the next time. What percentage of our athletes train outside the country?

I do not know the percentage of Irish athletes who train outside the country. We need to put a system in place to enable Irish athletes to train in Ireland and provide the systems and supports so they can train here. It will then be up to the individual athlete where he or she chooses to live and whether to train in Europe, in America or elsewhere. We need to make sure we have the systems in place to support them.

Irish athletes should train abroad at some stage during the course of the year. It is always good for an athlete to get away from life and to have a focus in a training camp or in some similar facility. It has been my experience that six weeks away training gave me a great lift and made me very sharp when I was looking forward to a competition. It is a big help to training. We should not discourage people from training overseas. We fund it and support it in a meaningful way. Athletes also need go abroad to compete internationally and that is also something we encourage. We need to make sure we have a system in place to support athletes in a meaningful way.

Athletes have a responsibility and they know what it is. They know that there are certain issues regarding drugs and misbehaviour and they know what they are. If there is a breach of anti-doping regulations we take action.

I agree with Deputy Breen that the athletes should be respected. I never call athletes failures. I say they were not successful on the occasion in question. We have competitors who did not succeed this time but have competed and have done extremely well for Ireland at European and world level. That should also be recognised.

At present, Ireland's two world class athletes are both female. They are the two who have won competition at the highest level. John Treacy spoke about the fact that men seem to be more attracted to team games. However, at present we do not have anyone of sufficient calibre to win medals at the highest level. This can be detrimental in another way. Role models give young boys encouragement to be committed to their sport and to do well at it.

In the run-up to the Athens Olympic Games I was surprised to learn that only one boxer reached the required standard to compete in the games. The grant to boxing was €844,000. Is there a reason for this? Boxing has provided medals in the past. Andy Lee performed very well and seems to have what it takes to do very well on a future occasion.

This committee is also involved in the area of volunteering. Are sufficient people of calibre coming forward to make sure that sports are administered to the required standard at local and national level? One of our athletes was injured in a road accident in Athens. In 1992, Robert Power was injured in a road traffic accident in Barcelona, which put an end to the progress of his career. The two athletes are both Waterford men. When athletes go abroad to compete or train would it be better to keep them off the roads when they practise or train?

I assume the two top athletes to whom the Deputy refers are Sonia O'Sullivan and Gillian O'Sullivan. Gillian O'Sullivan was unfortunate in being injured before the Olympic Games. That was a blow to us because she was a real medal prospect. When athletes are performing for a major championship they are walking a tightrope between getting hurt and staying healthy. They are training at the top of their game and it is very easy to get hurt. We were disappointed for Gillian because we appreciate the huge effort she put in. We will be focusing strongly on her for Beijing. Walking is not a young person's sport. Participants tend to be in their late 20s and early 30s. She will be well to the fore next time around. We expect her to be at the next Olympic Games. We see other possibilities. Andy Lee is someone we will be keeping in mind. Adrian O'Dwyer, while he did not have a successful games this time, has fantastic potential and is also someone on whom we will be keeping a close watch. There is real potential for Beijing.

We had only one qualifier in boxing because of the break-up of the Soviet Union. Boxers from many more countries now qualify for the Olympic Games and qualifying from Europe has become extremely competitive. Britain, which invested approximately £10 million in boxing, had only one qualifier. We have invested substantial money in a very good boxing programme and our boxers have won European and world championship medals. Boxing has a very good squad system and a very good performance manager and coaching structure. That is something we intend to progress. Qualifying for the Olympic Games in boxing will be very difficult in the future. Andy Lee qualified by winning a European championship medal. That illustrates the quality of boxing needed to get to the Olympic Games.

The Irish Sports Council always acknowledges the volunteer. Sport in Ireland is based on voluntarism and we strongly support it. Research indicates there is no drop off in volunteers from sporting bodies but a drop off exists in terms of participation in schools. Such activities were once undertaken by the brothers or priests in schools and given they are no longer participating in that area it is becoming more difficult to encourage the volunteer effort in schools. That is the reason many governing bodies employ development officers to ensure take-up of coaching and other programmes in primary and second schools. It is done in a very meaningful way by the various field sports and that is to be welcomed.

Jamie Costin was very unfortunate. I do not know if we can keep him off the roads. He received the best care from Dr. Seán Gaine on his return to Ireland. He had a medical team waiting to treat him on his return. We look forward to seeing him back in action. We wish him well.

I congratulate the chairperson on her ability to bring before us such a high level of celebrities. We met last week with Mr. Frank Kelly.

We might invite in a musician next week.

I welcome the delegation and Mr. Treacy in particular. It is good to hear of the challenges facing us. I congratulate the former Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, Deputy McDaid, on the review set up by him in 2000, something which took a great deal of courage and for which he received a great deal of criticism. He must be commended and remembered for that initiative which resulted in many improvements since the games took place in Sydney. We have data before us to support that. I also congratulate the Irish Sports Council on its involvement. I hope Deputy McDaid will be remembered for this positive initiative and not for the unceremonious shafting he received last week.

The Irish Sports Council has a job to do and depends on a filtering system at grass roots level, be it at community games level, amateur boxing or athletics club level. That filtering system is, I believe, out of its hand given its reliance on so many components such as was mentioned earlier, voluntarism and the involvement of the Christian brothers, before athletes reach its table. We as legislators are responsible for grooming and nurturing talent before it goes on to the Irish Sports Council. That is done through the schools as mentioned earlier. I was glad to hear that development officers will work with schools on sports programmes.

At Department of Health and Children level there is enormous responsibility on us as legislators to encourage people to monitor their dietary needs and lifestyle. What input does the Irish Sports Council have in terms of liaising and networking through the Department of Education and Science with the Department of Health and Children? Does it have a planned programme of networking? What is its vision in terms of how the nurturing process at grassroots level should be attained? We have the necessary components in place and there is a great deal of goodwill and voluntary input by parents, the vast majority of whom are a vital cog in the wheel. However, the habits and work ethics of a minority of parents in terms of voluntarism is detrimental to the progress of young people.

I view the Irish Sports Council as an umbrella group for the different sports be they at community, athletic or boxing club level. It is the ambassador or kingpin for sports. How can we bring all these areas together and what role can the Irish Sports Council have in that regard? Deputy Deenihan referred to Mr. de Lima from Brazil. Perhaps, as a measure of goodwill, Deputy Deenihan could offer one of his all-Ireland medals to Mr. de Lima.

There is no level at which the Senator will not plámás people.

We give them away down in Kerry.

The Senator's opening remarks provide me with the opportunity of also paying tribute to Deputy McDaid. He was responsible for the establishing of the statutory Sports Council for which we are deeply gratified. It was the first time in the history of the State that sport, through the Irish Sports Council Act, was provided with funding. Deputy McDaid led the way in that regard and will be remembered for it by the Irish Sports Council. He was also extremely effective in the matter of anti-doping. He kept the pressure on the Irish Sports Council to get the programme up and running as quickly as possible and, within a short period, we were testing people. Deputy McDaid was a man ahead of his time in that regard. He stressed the need for a programme in anti-doping. We now have in place a programme that can stand against the best in the world. I, too, pay tribute to him for his work in this area.

My vision is that every child in the country will have access to sport in a meaningful way, that children will be provided with the opportunity to enjoy participating in sport purely for enjoyment and fun and that every parent would see sport as a fundamental part of their child's development. Sport, physical activity, PE, should be an integral part of a child's development. When asking about how their children are doing at school parents should also inquire about they are getting on in physical education. We must focus the minds of parents on how important physical education is to the health and development of their children. It is as important as learning English, Irish and mathematics.

There is a need for more co-ordination, particularly in terms of young people's access to sport and physical activity, across the Departments of Health and Children, Education and Science and Arts, Sports and Tourism, an issue which I am aware the Minister is currently examining. Co-operation between the Irish Sports Council and the Department of Health and Children is strong. I currently chair the obesity task force established by former Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin. The task force which is examining a range of strategies to deal with obesity in children and adults hopes to report to the Minister by end of this year. Physical activity and dietary issues are vitally important in that regard. We greatly appreciate our close working relationship with the Department of Health and Children. Our vision is that parents will take responsibility for their children's development. That is a good place from which to start and from where we could see children participating in sport because they want to do so and to enjoy it irrespective of their ability or inability. That is what we achieve. It is a bonus if along with that we get people coming through and performing at an elite level. Every child should have access to meaningful physical activity, PE and sport.

I apologise for my late arrival. I welcome Mr. Treacy and his colleagues from the Irish Sports Council and congratulate them on the work they have been doing. I congratulate particularly Cian O'Connor on his marvellous performance in the Olympics. I had the pleasure of meeting him. Anybody who had that pleasure could not be but impressed by his demeanour. His performance off the field, as it were, in his round of media interviews reflects huge credit not only on him, his family and the sport he represents but on everybody involved in supporting him and getting him to the Olympics, which is the most important aspect. It is not enough to just produce an athlete, but important to produce rounded individuals for whom sport is a major driving force. I congratulate the Irish Sports Council for its role in this area.

I particularly congratulate the council for the line it has taken on drugs. We are at the forefront of the worldwide clampdown on drugs, a major problem that has sullied the good name of sport and introduced a level of cynicism of sport, the Olympics in particular. This cynicism erodes public interest in sport and, while I do not like saying this, in Mr. Treacy's sport of track and field particularly. Some of my peers, who had a huge interest in sport, from a spectator or couch potato point of view, no longer watch it on television. This is a huge problem and it is important we continue to give leadership in the area.

I join with the kind comments made with regard to the former Minister of State, Deputy McDaid. However, the word "remember" is not the right one to use in his regard. Anybody who was at our parliamentary meeting yesterday knows that he is alive and well and still has a hell of a kick in him. Perhaps it was wishful thinking on the part of Senator McHugh for local constituency purposes. I have no doubt Deputy McDaid will be around for a long time to come and that he will have a major role to play in national politics.

I will be brief with my queries. My first question relates to two particular recommendations of the Sydney review. As the council was so happy with the other 28 recommendations, what was the basis for the decision not to implement the 29th? How did the recommended multi-sport training camp go and was it a success? Coming from a background of team sport, it strikes me that it must be extremely difficult to get such a wide diversity of highly talented and peak-performing athletes together in a single venue, sharing facilities etc. I fully understand the motivation behind it, but I wonder whether it is practical or a pie in the sky aspiration we should face up to as not being practical.

There is a fundamental clash between the concept of sport for all, as typified by the Buntús programme, which was such a huge success in the primary schools and on which the council should be congratulated, and the requirement for the funding of that programme and follow on programmes to it, and the amount of money that goes into not so much minority sports as sports that require a huge amount of personal capital. In this regard I refer, for example, to sports such as equestrianism. To compete at equestrian level a significant amount of personal capital must be available and only a small sector of Irish society can afford to get into the sport. I am not saying we should not support equestrianism. However, we must look at the money we put into it compared to the requirement for the funding of programmes that touch every pupil in every primary school in the country, programmes that have proven to be successful and where success is measured in participation and not in the achievement of medals. The same would apply, to a lesser extent, to sailing. I am interested in the council's views on this.

This time last year the GPA floated the tax credit incentive scheme for elite athletes. It was, not unsurprisingly, portrayed in the media as being basically confined to county GAA players. I was involved with the GPA in that scheme and both Mr. Treacy and I know it was not confined to the GAA and county players, but was targeted at elite athletes in general. What are the council's views on that scheme? Is there a place for it in the overall scheme of Olympic preparation? I believe there is. It is important, if the scheme is to be implemented and taken on board by the Minister for Finance, that the reality is portrayed in the media — I am conscious members of the press are present. The scheme is for elite athletes, a significant number of whom are Gaelic footballers and hurlers. However, it is aimed across the board.

One of our best performing athletes in Athens was a non-native, Alistair Cragg, who received most of his training in South Africa. The Irish soccer team has been extremely successful over the years with a proactive approach to Irish nationality. The Irish rugby team has also benefited. Is the council aware of any plans that any of the member organisations of the Olympic Council might have in that regard?

During the period of the Olympic Games I visited Australia as part of an Oireachtas delegation, a trip that received some publicity here for the wrong reasons. While there I could not but be struck by the national obsession with the Olympics. Allowing for the fact that Australia hosted the Sydney 2000 Olympics, one could not move in any city without having the Olympics thrown in one's path. Every town square had big screens and the front and back pages of the newspapers were filled with Olympic stories. Is the Irish attitude to the Olympics different from that of people in other countries? Do we need to develop an approach to that or is it something that will come with success, as it appears to have done in Australia?

With regard to the 29th recommendation on the hospitality centre, a decision was made not to follow the recommendation as we did not see it as vital. It was more a location where athletes could come into town and meet their families etc. We decided it was not vital because of Athens being so spread out and because of anticipated difficulties with transport, although there were none. Another issue was that it might take resources, that were already spread too thinly from the Olympic Council of Ireland and the games. Therefore, it was decided not to proceed with it and we had no issue with that.

We think the training camps are a good idea, particularly for the heat in places such as Athens. Leading into competition such as the Athens Olympics, athletes need a minimum of two weeks opportunity to train in the heat. Experts such as Ron Maughan came over to Ireland and instructed us in how to acclimatise our athletes. We had very good information which we gave to all the athletes. The NGBs and the athletes picked the training camps of which there were three, in Cyprus, Zagreb and northern Greece. They were utilised by the athletes. I believe they were a vital part of the final preparations for the team. The sports went where the facilities were best for each particular sport and they had the option of three venues.

On the question of funding for high performance sport and Buntús, there is always a tension between funding programmes at elite level and funding programmes at participation level. I strongly believe that the Buntús programme has been extremely successful. It was rolled out by the local sports partnerships. It will require more funding over the next number of years. The Irish Sports Council will do everything in its power to increase the funding in that area. We regard it as a vital programme in terms of supporting the Department of Education and Science implementation of the PE curriculum. We would like to see a roll-out throughout the country of the local sports partnerships. The budget proposal from the GPA fell short in terms of criteria and that was the main issue. A tax incentive of that nature would obviously help our Olympic sports as well. A scheme exists to help athletes who are resident in Ireland and that is to be welcomed. The proposal needs to be further explored with the new Minister for Finance.

Alistair Cragg performed exceptionally well and we were delighted to get him. I believe more overseas athletes will compete for Ireland because of the nature of immigration into this country and that is to be welcomed. Sport is a fantastic way of integrating immigrants into Irish life. I know we will have Irish Olympians who were not born in Ireland competing not perhaps in Beijing but following that, and this is strongly supported by the Irish Sports Council.

I am aware that countries such as Australia and the United States focus on their own sporting achievements and events rather than having a global approach to sport. We in Ireland have a better attitude; we balance it better. We like to see the world's best and we appreciate our own performances also. It is not realistic to imagine we will return with a truckload of medals. Such an attitude is not based on sport as it is in Ireland. We must be realistic about what we can achieve. We will never return with a bag full of medals. Two or three medals would be exceptional.

We must ensure that nothing is put in the way of Irish athletes participating in the Olympic Games when it comes to preparation. The Paralympic team had many personal best performances this year in Athens and achieved considerable success. We must ensure there is a system in place to support the athletes.

It is dangerous to never say "never" in terms of saying they will never come back with a bag of medals. The Paralympic team is already coming back with a bag of medals. I disagree that it should all start at primary school because a six year old child has 50% or more of their image of what is right and wrong formed by that age. If Mammy and Daddy are couch potatoes and that is all the child has seen by six years of age, then it will be too late, even in primary school. I believe, therefore, in mother and child programmes, especially in the case of obesity. Ireland is way behind on nought to six, mother and baby programmes or parent and child programmes. Maeve Kyle was quite interesting in her presentation to the committee on a previous occasion on that subject.

One of the questions remaining to be answered is whether all disciplines used the NCTC, the National Coaching and Training centre. The role of this committee is not to lay the blame on any athlete for not succeeding but to help learn for the future so that people will not say they were standing shaking on the blocks before they took off. The medical team was the largest ever team sent to an Olympic Games. They were housed outside the Olympic village. What are the mental, psychological and physical benefits of having a medical team? All we want is for the athletes to do their best and if they felt they could not give their best, has the reason been identified or will the review do so? Two hundred and fifty athletes receive €2.08 million and only 48 or 49 competed in the Olympic Games, which is one in five. On the question of relationships in the aftermath of Sydney, the athletes commission was disbanded. Did the Irish Sports Council take on board their document regarding success in Athens? This point was made by Senator Ó Murchú. Where stand the athletes in the review? They were the people at the core and of whom the psychiatrists say will have so much more to deal with in the future as a result of what happened to them at the previous Olympics. Will the delegation to comment on those points?

Following on Deputy Glennon's question, did all the athletes use the training camp in Cyprus? I understand that comments were made on television by my former colleague, Jerry Kiernan. If they did not use the camp, what was the reason? What is the function of a training camp if all the athletes do not use it?

Is there a problem for the Irish Sports Council in working with NGBs? Most of the NGBs rely on voluntary personnel and yet those who are full-time employees like to work within working hours. Volunteers usually can only attend meetings at night. Does this create problems? Is there a reluctance among full-time employees to work in the evenings or at the weekend? In Munster I am aware that the rugby professionals go into the schools. Have those on the carding scheme any obligation to give something back? Even if they spoke to children in school just once a year, they would act as role models.

I was watching the monitor and saw Deputy Allen in the Chamber. I recognise what Deputy McDaid did but Deputy Allen started it all. He was first to appoint John Treacy to set up the Irish Sports Council. He set up the council on a non-statutory basis. Deputy Allen deserves this recognition. It takes at least two years to set up a body on a statutory basis. Deputy Allen provided the foundation to the Irish Sports Council.

The point is taken.

Would countries with similar populations to Ireland have more participants at the Olympic Games and would they have greater funding than our athletes?

We will ask for a final round-up. The bell has rung and Mr. Treacy is on the home stretch.

The NCTC would be widely used by the governing bodies for their coaching programmes. For the athletes on the carding scheme this would be co-ordinated by them. As part of the Athens enhancement programme, specific sports were targeted. The NCTC under Dr. Giles Warrington had a specific role to ensure the sports science and sports medicine aspects were in place to support the programme, so it is widely used.

The Athens review will consider the benefit of the medical team. We had a very good medical team and Dr. Seán Gaine did a fantastic job. We appreciate the support he gave us. The issue in Sydney was of continuity of care; there was no issue this time and this has been acknowledged. One in five from the carding scheme competing is not bad. The carding scheme will always be made up of juniors and developmental people who will form the foundation of those competing at world level. That is probably the kind of ratio we need. We need to be funding at that level.

There is an interim athletes commission, chaired by Sam Lynch, I believe. That question can be saved for Mr. Pat Hickey. The athletes will have good input into the Athens review, which will be completely athlete centred. This is the approach we have taken, as have the Olympic Council of Ireland and the Paralympic Council of Ireland. They will obviously have a very direct input into the Athens review.

We set up the training camps and allowed the athletes make a choice. I strongly feel the athletes should use those camps in a meaningful way, as I believe it helps.

Did they use them?

We will get the figures through the Athens review. I do not know them off the top of my head. They were widely used leading into the games. The training camp in Cyprus was not the first one. In previous Olympic years we also had training camps for the athletes. The primary purpose was to allow the athletes to get to know each other so that they would not be meeting each other for the first time four weeks before their events. We tried to make the athletes as comfortable as possible. We will examine that matter and give the committee feedback.

I was asked about volunteers and employees. Those working full-time in a national governing body realise their evenings and weekends are gone. When depending on volunteers, much of the work must take place at weekends and evenings. The Irish Sports Council regularly meets governing bodies in the evening, at six o'clock, which suits them. We have a policy to support that. We go to their events at the weekends to show support for them. We are aware of this and work with the NGBs in that respect.

The athletes in the carding scheme have certain obligations to their governing bodies and to us. They must compete in national championships and two or three internationals a year for the NGB. It is up to the governing body to use them in the schools or wherever they choose. While many of them are not sufficiently well organised to be able to do that, some are and utilise them well. We also have an arrangement with them in that if we want to raise the profile of a project or programme we are rolling out, we will invite some carding athletes to give it some support. We utilise that fairly well.

The greater a country's population, the greater its chances of winning medals. This is very obvious from the statistical tables of medals won at Olympic Games. It has a direct relationship to medals won. A bigger population gives a wider base, which is very important. I also pay tribute to Deputy Allen for his hard work for sport. During my time in the Irish Sports Council there has been cross-party support for sport, which the council really appreciates.

I thank Mr. Treacy and his team. They have been concise and comprehensive in their responses to us. Given the stardom given to former Ministers responsible for sport, I have directed the clerk to ask both former Ministers to appear before the committee and Deputy McDaid has already agreed to come next Wednesday morning.

I am sure Deputy Allen would be delighted to come.

I will also arrange a time for Deputy Allen. We do not need to be controversial on this matter. We agree sport has cross-party support. We wish Mr. Treacy well in his review. We will continue to have an interest in it. We congratulate the Irish Sports Council on the responses given and the forthrightness shown today.

The joint committee went into private session at 12.08 p.m. and resumed in public session at 12.09 p.m.

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