Skip to main content
Normal View

JOINT COMMITTEE ON ARTS, SPORT, TOURISM, COMMUNITY, RURAL AND GAELTACHT AFFAIRS debate -
Wednesday, 5 May 2010

Hotel Sector: Discussion with Irish Hotels Federation, Fáilte Ireland and SIPTU

I welcome our guests and the delegations to this meeting to discuss an important issue for this committee. We have been joined by representatives from the Irish Hotels Federation, Fáilte Ireland and SIPTU to discuss the state of the hotel sector in Ireland. On considering the joint committee's work programme for the months and year ahead, it is clear this is an important issue to be addressed. Members wish to listen to the delegations because they know what is happening on a local level. Many challenges face us all, including the Icelandic ash that all hope will fade away over the coming weeks. However, one appreciates it is a matter over which we have no control.

I welcome Ms Patricia King, regional secretary for SIPTU, and Mr. Paul Gallagher, president, and Mr. John Power, chief executive, Irish Hotels Federation. I also welcome Mr. Redmond O'Donoghue, chairman of Fáilte Ireland, Mr. Shaun Quinn, its chief executive, and Mr. Aidan Pender, its director of strategic development. These are the people on my list, although others have joined the delegation and should feel free to contribute as we proceed.

As we always do at these meetings, I will make some formal announcements. I draw everyone's attention to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege, but this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before it. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Opening statements will be given in the following order: the Services, Industrial, Professional and Technical Union, SIPTU, the Irish Hotels Federation, IHF, and Fáilte Ireland. I will commence our considerations with a few comments. We have invited witnesses to this meeting in the lead up to the 2010 summer season. In the committee's opinion, the tourism sector is vital and I hope that, in the current economic climate, the coming season will be especially successful. The current weakness of the euro against the US dollar should be some help in increasing the numbers travelling to Ireland from the North American continent. I encourage the hotel sector in particular to take full advantage of this by ensuring it puts attractive packages on the market to maximise their intake. Those of us who take weekends at home whenever we can would be conscious of the kinds of offer available. We appreciate that Fáilte Ireland has a special responsibility in this regard.

We have invited SIPTU because of the importance of the tourism industry to employment, employing as it does approximately 200,000 people. This is of significant value to the economy. We want to hear SIPTU's views on the prospects of maximising the numbers that can be employed in the sector, the quality of that employment and how the rights of workers can be protected. Tourism is economically vital to Ireland, but it is equally important that those working in the sector have, in so far as is possible, secure employment and that their rights are protected. I have heard some of the comments made by a number of our guests in this regard in recent months and on radio today.

I call on Ms King to commence our consideration of the topic of the hotel sector in Ireland.

Ms Patricia King

I thank the Chairman and the committee for the invitation to address this meeting. Since the 1930s, SIPTU has represented workers in the hotel industry. Our primary objective in the industry is to ensure that hotel workers are treated fairly by their employers.

I apologise, as I have just received the list of Ms King's colleagues. They are Ms Ethel Buckley, Mr. Paul Henry and Ms Marie Sherlock.

Ms Patricia King

Workers in hotels have the right to earn a living wage upon which to support themselves and their families. They are entitled to work safely and to be treated with dignity and respect while at work. They should have the right to training and to have their craft skills accredited on the national qualifications framework. Quality employment is the key to addressing the long-standing challenge of retention of qualified staff in this industry. It is incumbent upon all stakeholders to ensure that the hotel industry is an attractive career option for school leavers, adult workers, workers retraining from other industries and for native and migrant workers alike.

While the union's goal of fairness at work has remained unchanged over the decades of our involvement with the industry, the composition of membership has changed significantly. More than half of our membership is now female. In the past decade, most particularly with the arrival of accession state workers since 2004, our membership has become more ethnically diverse. We mirror the industry, in that two thirds of our members in hotels are Irish born and one third are migrant workers.

SIPTU represents the worker side on the joint labour committee, JLC, for the hotel industry. We represent workers at enterprise level in hotels stretching the length and breadth of the country. We also represent the interest of hotel workers in Ireland at a European level via the EU social dialogue mechanism and internationally through our work with the International Union of Food, Agriculture, Hotel, Restaurant, Catering, Tobacco and Allied Workers' Associations, IUF, the global confederation of hotel workers based in Geneva.

Our membership in the hotel sector has a clear and immediate interest in a viable sustainable hotel industry that meets the hospitality and accommodation needs of the domestic and overseas markets. Indirectly, tens of thousands more SIPTU members service the tourism and hospitality industry in food and drink production, public and private transport, restaurants and catering, cultural institutions and State agencies.

Minimum rates of pay and other working conditions for workers are determined by the JLC for the hotel industry. SIPTU represents the worker side on the committee. The IHF and the Irish Business and Employers Confederation, IBEC, represent the employer side. The chair of the committee is an independent ministerial appointee.

Pay and conditions arrived at through negotiation by the worker and employer representatives at the JLC mechanism are given the force of law in the industry through an employment regulation order, ERO, made by the Labour Court on foot of the agreed proposals. The order covers all hotels except those located in the cities of Dublin and Cork. In these areas, statutory minimum rates of pay and other working conditions are in accordance with entitlements under the various other labour laws. The statutory minimum rate of pay for hotel workers in areas not covered by the order, that is, where the national minimum wage determines the minimum wage rates, is €337.35 per week.

The order sets out the statutory minimum terms and conditions of employment for the majority of grades in the hotel sector. Certain grades are exempted from the order, namely, managers, storemen and receptionists. The order covers rates of pay, working hours, overtime rates, breaks, holidays and deductions for meals and lodgings.

In respect of pay rates, the order sets forth the statutory rate of pay for a fully trained adult worker in named positions, workers who are undergoing formal structured training and workers who are aged under 18 years. The rate of pay for a fully trained adult chef, waiter, bar person, porter and accommodation assistant is €354.43 per week. There is provision for a higher rate of pay for head chef of €399.99, for head waiter of €373.11, for head bar person of €372.38 and for head porter of €373. The rate of pay for workers under the age of 18 is €248.31 per week. Workers undergoing formal structured training are entitled to certain rates of pay. If they are aged over 18 years, stage 1 training earns them €265.93 per week, stage 2 training earns them €283.55 per week and stage 3 training earns them €319.20.

The JLC-ERO is a crucial mechanism for determining fair rates of pay and working conditions in the hotel industry. The system should be strengthened to ensure that hotel workers receive their entitlements under the ERO. The ERO system in the hotel industry has served workers and employers well. It provides a mechanism whereby the industry's stakeholders can meet and address issues particular to the industry in an efficient and agile manner. Amendments to the ERO that are agreed by the parties and the Labour Court can be brought into effect over a short timeframe.

The current ERO was agreed after negotiations between SIPTU and the employer bodies, the IHF and IBEC. The primary change in the current order over the previous one is an adjustment in the rate of pay for Sunday working. In spring 2009, the employer bodies would have made a case to SIPTU regarding the trading circumstances in the industry at the time. They argued that Sunday trading was being curtailed by the terms of the existing order. The parties entered into negotiations on the matter and by 6 July were in a position to issue a joint notice of proposal of our intention to adjust the rates of pay applicable on Sundays to take account of current trading circumstances. The Labour Court made an order reflecting the joint proposal and the new ERO became legally binding on 16 September. The new order adjusts the rate of pay for Sunday working from double time to time and one third.

Some commentators have argued that the JLC-ERO system is outdated and inflexible. SIPTU would argue that the negotiations that took place in 2009 to amend the hotel industry ERO as per the aforementioned sequence and timeframe demonstrate the robust and agile nature of the JLC system in addressing the needs of a specific industry in a speedy fashion.

Pay and conditions for workers in the hotel industry are set through the ERO as just described as well as a number of other mechanisms. Workers in the unionised segment of the industry have their terms and conditions negotiated between SIPTU and their employers by means of a collective bargaining agreement. Unionised hotels provide good quality employment. Generally, staff in unionised hotels are paid a fair day's pay for a fair day's work, have appropriate rest breaks and annual leave, provision for sick pay, occupational pension schemes that secure decent retirement income and health and safety provision that minimise the risk of accident and injury. In certain geographical areas, namely, the urban areas of Dublin and Cork, the ERO is not applicable because workers have historically been sufficiently organised to bargain terms in excess of the ERO. Thus, while there is statutory provision for the existence of an ERO in these areas, an ERO is not currently in operation. The minimum pay and conditions of hotel workers in these geographical locations is legislated for by means of the national minimum wage and other basic employment legislation.

There is another segment of the hotel industry which does not apply the aforementioned mechanisms — that in which the statutory minimum terms, whether ERO or other employment laws, are disregarded. These hotels do not comply with the applicable statutory requirements and do not meet their legal obligations as employers. In other words, these hotels are operating outside the law. By its very nature, the hotel industry is labour intensive; it is a people industry. In some hotels — for example, in the business hotel segment of the market — labour costs can represent as much as 60% of operating cost. Employers who undercut the statutory rates of pay can attain a significant competitive advantage, although this advantage is founded on illegality. It is crucial that we have a level playing field across the industry, ensuring that one hotel cannot gain advantage over another through underpayment of wages.

Unfortunately, the segment of the market that undercuts competitors by denying staff their entitlements is sizeable. Official data from the National Employment Rights Authority, NERA, gives us an indication of the extent of non-compliance. In 2008, NERA carried out 142 inspections and found a compliance rate of just 22%. In other words, 78% of hotels were found to be in breach of their employees' employment rights. A total of 51% of hotels were not paying the appropriate hourly rate and 41% were not paying the correct overtime rates, or any at all. NERA commenced a compliance campaign in 2009, working with Fáilte Ireland and four of the employer bodies in the industry to disseminate information to employers on their obligations.

While SIPTU commends NERA, Fáilte Ireland and the employer bodies for undertaking this campaign, we were somewhat disheartened at the persistent level of industry disregard for workers' rights. NERA's year-end inspection results for 2009 showed that based on 131 hotel inspections, there was a compliance rate of only 27%. Therefore, in 2009, some 73% of hotels inspected persisted in breaking the law in respect of their staff's entitlements. The argument made by some employers that they did not know their obligations is completely unacceptable, not least due to the awareness campaign being undertaken by the various industry bodies.

SIPTU believes that the long-term implications for the tourism industry of this persistent level of disregard for workers' rights in the hotel industry needs to be considered. Overseas visitors consistently tell us that they choose Ireland for our scenery and our people. It is not acceptable that a band of cavalier hotel employers are allowed to treat people in the industry with such blatant disregard and jeopardise the image of Ireland of the welcomes.

SIPTU's prime objective when representing the interests of hotel workers is to promote and support high-quality employment in the industry. In the area of education and training, the hotel industry education and training forum, made up of SIPTU, the IHF, IBEC and Fáilte Ireland, aims to address some of the deficiencies in the industry in respect of skills accreditation by modernising the skills passport. With our forum partners, we intend to hold a series of roadshows around the country in June aimed at underscoring recent positive developments in respect of approved prior learning and skills accreditation. We believe these joint events send a positive message to potential and existing hotel workers about opportunities for training, development and skills progression in the industry.

In a time of crisis, it is incumbent upon all stakeholders to be innovative and come up with positive measures to address the many challenges facing the industry. SIPTU and a broad coalition of supporters will launch a new initiative to support hotels that treat their staff fairly — the Fair Hotels campaign. Notwithstanding the high level of non-compliance in the industry, there are many good hotel employers that treat staff fairly. Treating staff fairly involves recognising their fundamental human right to a collective voice at work by means of a collective bargaining agreement. We believe that hotels that treat staff fairly are deserving of recognition and support. We intend to encourage consumers who wish to make an ethical choice when spending money on a hotel to choose the fair hotels for leisure, meetings and conferences.

So far the Fair Hotels campaign has received a very positive response from Fair Hotels employers. They see the benefit to them of letting consumers know they treat their staff fairly. Workers see the logic in supporting hotels that provide high-quality employment. Both employers and workers understand that the issue of undercutting through underpayment must be addressed in order to level the playing field. Consumers are supportive of the campaign because they want to make informed choices when deciding. We intend to publicise the campaign at home and in the key overseas markets for the hotel industry — namely, Britain, Germany, France, Italy, the USA, Australia and the Nordic countries.

The hotel industry faces a number of difficult challenges at present. Some of these derive from the global and domestic economic downturn; others derive from factors unique to the hotel industry in Ireland. Declining demand in the domestic and overseas market segments, over-capacity, falling room rates and below-cost selling are all issues that have had a direct negative impact on our members' job security and quality of employment. SIPTU members and officials have had to negotiate responses to these industry challenges as they present themselves in the hotels in which our members work.

Over the past two years, we have had to negotiate changes to our members' terms and conditions of employment in every hotel in which SIPTU members are employed. These negotiations have included but are not restricted to job losses, changes to pay rates, new work practices and reduced working hours. Even with these new agreements in place, our members remain extremely concerned for their job security. They are now also bracing themselves for the unknown — that is, the NAMA effect. "How will the transfer of more than 200 hotels to NAMA affect my hotel?" is a question being posed by our many of our members. We must be honest and say that the answer to that is unknown; the precise implications of NAMA will only emerge over time. However, what we do know is that it is imperative for a sustainable industry that NAMA's involvement does not undermine the viability of hotels that provide good jobs and a good product to customers. The State must ensure that workers are treated fairly in the so-called NAMA hotels.

Last year was a bad year for Irish tourism. An 11% drop in overseas visits in 2009 masked an even sharper decline of 20% in the number of business visitors and a 13% drop in the overall number of nights spent in Irish hotels by both domestic and international visitors. However, it must be noted that while the number of international visitors did fall dramatically, the domestic market held up relatively well, with a fall of only 2% recorded for overnight stays and an increase in the number of visits to hotels over the 12 months. With regard to the hotel industry's capacity to respond to this downturn in demand, we must agree with the assessment in the Peter Bacon report conducted for the Irish Hotels Federation that there has been a clear absence of a level playing field for hotels within the industry over the past 18 months.

It is clear to us that there is a significant reluctance of the part of some Irish banks to write down their impaired assets on the banks' own balance sheets and recognise the bad debts that have arisen due to the failure of certain developers to repay loans for hotel construction and maintenance. The perverse consequence of this is that banks are allocating working capital to these technically insolvent hotels to keep operations open, and this is crowding out financial support to smaller, older and less leveraged hotel operations. As a result of this crutch, hotel investors can continue operating and availing of tax allowances on their investments against their total sources of income. In effect, there has been a substitution by hotel investors of the traditional profit maximisation objective with one that seeks only to keep hotels in operation in order to claim capital allowances. Already, SIPTU has seen the devastating effect of this on the competitiveness of previously viable hotels.

As we have highlighted, the future for the industry remains uncertain, even after NAMA has taken over the loans associated with many hotel properties, and we are not in any way reassured that the future of the industry will be more sustainable or viable after the NAMA transfer. Although the banks, due to self-interest, will not foreclose on loans or deny working capital to troubled hotels to avoid impairment of their own balance sheets, it will be in the interest of the State to preserve the asset value of NAMA hotels in order to maximise the price upon disposal and prevent excessive value depreciation if the premises is closed. Ultimately, an unfortunate conflict of interest will emerge for the State between the price maximisation objective of the disposal of a hotel and the crowding out of private enterprise by supporting a technically insolvent hotel in order to shore up its value.

Cannibalisation by the highly leveraged of the smaller and solvent players in the industry is a situation neither the employers nor SIPTU wish to see. Standing on the sidelines, it would be easy for the trade union movement to throw stones and say that the industry brought this misfortune upon itself. We believe that tax incentives for the hotel industry have had a catastrophic impact on any attempt to build up a decent and sustainable tourism industry in the country, but we cannot turn back the clock and our clear focus now is on being constructive and finding a way to work with others to generate and support a sustainable and profit making hotel industry that provides quality employment.

A number of proposals have been made to facilitate the exiting of a number of technically insolvent hotels from the sector. Leaving aside the ludicrous suggestion that initial investors could continue to claim capital allowances after a hotel is closed, there is also the proposal from the Department of Finance to abolish the clawback clause on accelerated capital allowances in the event of a hotel closing down within seven years of construction. However, replacing one type of subsidy in the form of tax relief, with that of another in the form of debt forgiveness, would not, as the Bacon report suggests, be necessarily cost neutral to the Exchequer.

There are a number of problems with this. It assumes that all those investors associated with technically insolvent hotels would not have the means to repay the clawback. In other words, the revenue foregone from abolishing the clawback was never realistically collectible, so there is no real loss to the Exchequer. However, we must recall that the capital allowances were written off on the tax liability arising out of investors' total income. Just because a hotel is technically insolvent does not infer any information on the performance of other assets belonging to the investor. Furthermore, there are no guarantees that if this clawback is repealed technically insolvent hotels will exit the market for precisely the same reason that NAMA may not close hotels immediately, which is to preserve asset value should the loan be defaulted upon and NAMA comes into possession of the hotel property. In short, SIPTU would be categorically opposed to any such measures.

SIPTU believes that first and foremost, the Financial Regulator must step up pressure on the banks, particularly those participating in the State-backed guarantee scheme, to write down in an orderly and timely manner the impaired assets above a certain value among the loans remaining on their balance sheets after the transfer of the other loans to NAMA. At present, there is little or no information on the number of loans associated with hotels that are destined for NAMA and it is not clear whether some hotels, which are technically insolvent, will be transferred across. A speedier write down should have the effect of stemming the flow of working capital into technically insolvent hotels and should result in the sale of hotel properties. Clearly, issues arise with regard to a State agency directly subventing a hotel and it is our view that these matters need to be dealt with in a manner that recognises the importance of the continuance of sustainable employment in these entities.

SIPTU also believes that there is a significant role for Fáilte Ireland to review the stock of hotels in the country and it could work along with the local authorities on varying local development plans to modify planning permission available for hotels in particular areas. This should have the effect of altering the planning permission type available for a hotel to alternative purposes and thus ensure that not all hotels sold in the coming years can re-enter the hotel stock. I thank the Chairman and committee members for their attention.

I thank Ms King and I appreciate the far-reaching nature of her contribution. The committee has been anxious to discuss this important subject about which people are concerned. She covered all of the issues referred to in the public domain with regard to JLCs, employment regulation orders and the minimum wage. We are aware a big debate is going on. Ms King referred to treating staff fairly and the fair hotels campaign warrants support. I am of the view that once one meets the person behind the reception desk one has a sense of how things are going in a hotel. A content staff is one that works well under good management. Management and the Irish Hotels Federation are of one view in this regard. There are many fantastic hotels, many of which are family run and all of us have experienced this.

Ms King also dealt with the issues of NAMA and technically insolvent hotels, and these matters have been raised by Mr. John Power and others. The bottom line for us also is that this is an important area of employment and we want to preserve and develop jobs. The purpose of this committee is to delve into these issues. We have a positive perspective on this issues and we try to facilitate indepth debate on issues and get on with it. I appreciate the many constructive suggestions made by Ms King.

We have heard Mr. Power speak on these subjects on many occasions and we look forward to hearing from him. We also look forward to hearing from Mr. O'Donoghue later.

Mr. John Power

I thank the Chairman and committee members for inviting the Irish Hotels Federation to address the joint committee on the challenges and opportunities facing the hotel and guesthouse sector in Ireland. The challenges and difficulties being faced include the following: the oversupply of hotel accommodation; interference with market forces through banks and financial institutions taking possession of hotels and continuing to operate them; the hotel sector over-borrowed and there are difficulties in accessing working capital; an unbearable level of local authority rates and charges; an archaic system of setting legally-binding wage rates and conditions under the JLC and ERO system; a market imbalance where we have an over-dependence on the domestic market; access and transport barriers, mainly a possible shortage of cars for hire this summer; and the impact of the air travel tax and airport charges.

There are major opportunities and advantages on which we should build and support including: the excellent quality hotel stock; the reducing cost base, with the exception of Government and local authority charges; a committed, well trained and motivated staff; a high level of customer satisfaction; and very committed State agencies in the tourism sector.

With regard to the oversupply of hotel accommodation, there are now 903 hotels in Ireland with 60,200 bedrooms. This has increased from 43,000 rooms in the past seven years and from 27,000 rooms in the past 14 years. In the paper submitted to them, committee members will find a chart outlining this growth over the years.

The development of the extra hotel rooms was incentivised by a developer being able to set off against income tax liability and rental income, the construction cost of hotels over a seven year period with a clawback of the tax benefit should the properties cease to operate as hotels within the seven-year tax life. Much of the development was driven by the attractions of the tax shelters, and the business plans supporting the investments never took into account the effects on an industry of overcapacity or an economic downturn such as that which we are experiencing.

The demand for hotel accommodation has not kept pace with this rate of expansion. As a result, the hotel occupancy rate has fallen by 15% since 2007 and, at 55% at present, is at the lowest level since the early 1980s. There is also in the papers distributed to members a chart which outlines the trend of this fall.

For a number of reasons, including the overcapacity of supply, the weakness in overseas markets, particularly the British market, and ridiculous pricing by hotels owned or supported by financial institutions due to the level of their funding exposure, prices have collapsed with falls of more than 20% over the past 18 months. There are only two ways to deal with the supply and demand challenges. These are to either grow the volume of demand or reduce the supply of hotel bedrooms.

Growth in demand will be a long and demanding process and its success will, to a large extent, depend on the growth of overseas markets. As 70% of hotel business comes from Irish customers, the challenge is to maintain this in the light of the current economic difficulties. The provisions in last December's budget to maintain the tourism marketing fund at €44.25 million and the extension of free train travel to overseas visitors aged 66 and over were two very valuable contributions to the efforts to grow the markets.

Normally, market forces would force hotels with unsustainable borrowing and debt levels to fail. However, this has not happened, primarily due to the reluctance of banks to realise losses and write down loans advanced to hotels that have no prospect of recovery. This is because of the additional pressure this would place on the capital adequacy of banks' own balance sheets and a reluctance to act in advance of the introduction of NAMA. Furthermore, hotels in which major investment was made which benefited from tax allowances need to remain open for seven years to allow investors to retain capital allowances.

The result is that the burden of excess capacity is not being borne by the new entrants that have caused the problem or by the banks that have financed the bad investments. This would be the case in a properly functioning market, where failed entrants would be forced out. Instead, the burden of adjustment is, in effect, being transferred by banks away from themselves and on to the hotel sector as a whole, thus threatening the viability of hotels which are fundamentally competitive. This is damaging the entire hotel sector. The downward spiral of prices is now threatening the survival of established and viable businesses, many of which are vital to the long-term strategic objectives of Ireland's tourism industry. Furthermore, the reluctance of banks to provide working capital to potentially solvent hotels is leading to liquidity problems that further undermine their businesses.

The position gets worse as one looks at the asset value of hotels. The significant drop in the value of hotel properties, combined with the high level of debt in the sector, now points to a case where taken in its entirety, the sector is insolvent. In summary we currently have three hotel sectors; these are solvent hotels and those struggling to remain solvent, those insolvent and at mercy of the market and those which are insolvent and subsidised by banks.

The solution to this capacity issue will be difficult and complex but it must involve the removal of all barriers to insolvent hotels which wish to exit the market. For example, we should remove clawback on tax reliefs where a hotel ceased to operate or changed the use within their seven year tax life and the flexibility of local authority planning regulations for change of use to uses such as step-down health care facilities, language schools, student accommodation and so on.

There must also be pressure on the regulatory authorities to take into account the consequences for the hotel sector at large of a lack of foreclosure against fundamentally insolvent hotels. The authorities should ensure that banks fully recognise bad loans within the hotel sector and face any capital adequacy issues that might follow. Should foreclosure come about and debt be written off, measures are needed to ensure that these hotels do not continue to trade as this would do nothing to reduce over-supply but simply add to pressure on existing viable operations.

On bank credit and liquidity, the Government and the State have already taken a substantial share of the risk of the banking sector in nationalising Anglo Irish Bank and investing in other Irish institutions to ensure that the capital adequacy levels of Irish banks are maintained and in providing guarantees to depositors and bondholders. This was seen as necessary to ensure the survival of the banking system.

Notwithstanding these actions liquidity is a serious concern for many otherwise viable hotels which might be forced out of business due to the lack of working capital. Hotels are very seasonal in terms of cashflow; normally the busy season generated enough cash to repay the overdraft of the previous winter and provide a reserve to help get through the following winter. The collapse in hotel activities commenced about June of 2008 and accelerated since. The level of cash reserves available to hotels entering the winter of 2008 were seriously depleted and the very weak 2009 season resulted in a greater need for working capital entering last winter.

This can create difficulties in businesses meeting new bank lending criteria. Due to the recession, banks have changed their risk perception and assessments and there are many otherwise potentially viable enterprises which do not meet the new more stringent banking conditions. As a matter of urgency the Government must increase the flow of working capital credit to enterprises at affordable terms.

A useful model is the UK enterprise guarantee scheme for small and medium enterprises. We propose that the Government should introduce a guaranteed loan scheme with the banks on the following conditions. There should be a limit of €150,000 in additional credit per enterprise, the Government should provide a guarantee up to 50% of the advance, the guarantee premium of an extra 2% per annum should be paid by the borrower and the scheme should last for a maximum of two years.

There is also an unbearable level of local authority rates and charges imposed on hotels and guesthouses. The reduction of costs and improved productivity are crucial to even the most efficient well-funded hotels surviving in the current extremely difficult environment. The biggest single cost over which hoteliers and guest house owners have no control is local authority rates. Prior to the enactment of the Valuation Act 2001, businesses could seek a revision of their rateable valuations on a number of grounds, including a deterioration in the profitability of the business. The 2001 Act removed this method of seeking relief on the basis that the legislation envisaged that every rateable property in the country would have its valuation revised every five to ten years.

It is now eight years since the 2001 Act came into force and only two of the 88 rating areas have had the revisions by the office of the Commissioner of Valuation. At this rate it will take more than 20 years to complete the process in all rateable areas notwithstanding the intention in the legislation that the revised valuations would be further revised every five to ten years.

The revisions completed have resulted in the local authority rates liability of hotels being reduced by on average more than 30%. Based on this experience it is reasonable to suggest that if the revisions were completed in the remainder of the country similar results would be achieved. In the meantime hoteliers are being forced to pay excessive rates, particularly at a time of very difficult trading circumstances. Under the Local Government (Rates) Act 1970, local authorities may with the consent of the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government introduce a scheme to waive all or a portion of the rates due by a class of ratepayers. In recent weeks the Irish Hotels Federation wrote to most of the rating authorities requesting that a 30% waiver of rates on hotels be introduced and every reply received to date indicated a refusal to introduce such a waiver scheme.

It is now the view of the federation that the only option is for the Government to introduce emergency provisions providing a 30% reduction in local authority rates applicable to hotels and guesthouses until such time as these properties have had their rateable valuations revised as provided for in the 2001 Act. This is an emergency for most hoteliers and guesthouse owners as they just have not the trading income or cash flow to pay the current level of local authority rates.

The hotel sector is governed by the joint labour committee, JLC, system, which was created by the Industrial Relations Acts of 1946 to 2004. This applies in all areas other than Cork city, Dublin city and Dún Laoghaire. The JLCs, not the Government, set the legally binding minimum wages and conditions of employment for a number of sectors, including hotels. It is worth noting that the Industrial Relations Act 1946 replaced the Trade Boards Act 1909 and most of the provisions in the 1946 Act just updated the legal provisions of legislation which is now more than 100 years old.

The economic and regulatory environment in which Ireland operates today is unrecognisable from its counterpart 100 years ago, when the current system was conceived. The National Minimum Wage Act 2000 complements about 40 other employment protection statutes which now protect the legal rights of employees. These radical changes over the past century have made the JLC system obsolete. If there was any sound basis for it up to 2000, that basis was lost with the enactment of the National Minimum Wage Act 2000, which has provided Ireland with the second highest gross minimum wage in Europe. It is noteworthy that the UK equivalent of the JLC system — the wage council mechanism — was abolished in 1993 and has not been replaced.

The creation of employment regulation orders, EROs, by the joint labour committee system is fundamentally unfair in that it creates legislation, a breach of which can deem an employer to be criminally liable. This legislation is selective in the businesses to which it applies and the wording and drafting is completed within an industrial relations process and not through the normal legal draftspersons process, which would be applied in the drawing up of primary law.

Employment law should be created by legislation introduced by the Oireachtas and applied to all employment and not created by organisations such as the joint labour committees or the Labour Court. The present ERO system should be abolished. It is not our intention for wages of current employees to be reduced and the Irish Hotels Federation is strongly of the view that the current national minimum wage is sacrosanct and should not be touched. Nevertheless, the JLC system should be abolished.

There is market imbalance at the moment and over-dependence on the domestic market. Almost 70% of the bed nights in Irish hotels come from customers living on the island of Ireland. The 11% fall in the number of overseas visits in 2009 further highlights the difficulties in this issue. This over-dependence on the domestic market, which is under serious pressure due to the economic uncertainty, is a priority to be addressed. It is important the Government continues to support overseas marketing of Irish tourism. The provisions in last December's budget maintaining the tourism marketing fund at €44.25 million and the extension of free train travel to overseas visitors aged 66 and over were two valuable contributions to improving the flow of foreign visitors.

To facilitate growth in overseas visitors to Ireland, we must always be vigilant in removing any likely obstacles or barriers to visitors. The introduction of the air travel tax last year is such a barrier and the likelihood of a shortage of hire cars for the coming summer is also an issue.

Notwithstanding the difficulties outlined, we have a great industry employing more than 200,000 excellent people and reaching into every parish in the country. The quality of our hotels and guesthouses is excellent. They are of a higher standard than those in most of our European competitor countries. Owing to the challenges of survival, we have continued where possible to reduce our cost base and thereby become more competitive. Independent surveys report a high level of customer satisfaction and a willingness among satisfied customers to recommend Ireland to their friends. We are also fortunate in that, by international standards, we have a Government which clearly acknowledges the importance of tourism and, in Tourism Ireland and Fáilte Ireland, two highly committed State agencies which support and market the industry.

I thank the Chairman for this opportunity to address the joint committee. We will try to deal with any matters raised by members.

I thank Mr. Power for his comprehensive presentation covering everything from NAMA to insolvent hotels to bank credit to local authority rates and JLCs. I also thank him for his suggestions on how we should proceed. I appreciate the constructive nature of the debate. I now call on Mr. Redmond O'Donoghue, the chairman of Fáilte Ireland.

Mr. Redmond O’Donoghue

We are grateful for the invitation to join the committee this afternoon and we welcome the opportunity to make our contribution to this discussion on the hotel sector. The hotel sector is a key component of Irish tourism. A good stock of attractive, high quality hotels operating to the best international standards is essential for the effective performance of the tourism industry. Over the past decade or so, the quality of Irish hotels has improved greatly and Ireland is now considered a leader in this sector when compared with many other countries. Last year, tourism in Ireland generated 20 million hotel bed nights. The domestic market accounted for two thirds of these, as Mr. Power mentioned, with international visitors accounting for the balance. It is also notable that hotels are intensively used by high yield North American visitors who tend to stay longer in Ireland and travel around the regions more than other visitors.

I will comment on recent developments in the hotel market. From 2004 to 2009, the supply of hotel rooms in Ireland increased by 37%, from 43,900 to 60,100. The significance of this 37% increase in capacity is better appreciated when we consider that over the same period, overseas visits to Ireland increased by 15% and domestic trips increased by 13%. Unfortunately, as a consequence of prevailing economic conditions, overseas visitors are now back at 2004 levels in terms of volume and value, and the domestic market is now back at 2006 levels. Clearly, the home market, although it has fallen back, has not fallen as substantially as the overseas market.

It is important to keep in mind the fact that travel, leisure and tourism are areas of discretionary spending and, regrettably, are among the first to be cut back by consumers who believe their jobs and incomes are under threat. Equally, however, they can be among the first to bounce back when economies recover.

Hotel room demand is typically measured in terms of occupancy. Between 2004 and 2007, occupancy rates nationally improved from 60% to 64%, driven by an increase in overseas visits and a buoyant domestic market. However, occupancy declined in 2008 and 2009 to below 60%. Indeed, occupancy rates in 2009 were at an historically low level nationally, although actual performance varied significantly by region. Moreover, it is often noted in the industry that even this historically low level of occupancy was only achieved following heavy rate discounting as operators attempted to generate turnover to fulfil the most important requirement in any business enterprise, which is to cover a fixed cost base.

Trends in Irish occupancy data suggest that a sustainable room occupancy rate appears to be in the mid-60% range. At this level, room rates can be sustained and unusually heavy discounting avoided. International data also suggest that a sustainable occupancy level is in the mid-60% range. Few countries experience sustained occupancy rates above 70%, and where this does occur it is often due to the importance of specific city-based tourism.

While occupancy rates are important, additional information on room rates allows us to build a more comprehensive picture. The financial adviser, Horwath Bastow Charleton, conducts an annual survey which tracks the financial performance of hotels. The 2008 survey revealed that the financial performance of Irish hotels worsened in 2008 when the occupancy rate fell below 60%, revenue fell by almost 20% and profits were down by slightly more. This finding underlines the fact that because so much of the cost base is fixed, hotel margins are sensitive to occupancy changes. The 2009 survey is yet to be published but it is understood it will report a further deterioration in the financial performance of the sector. I will return to the question of hotel sector performance.

In terms of employment, in 2009 there were 52,300 people working across the 915 hotels that are registered with Fáilte Ireland. This represents approximately a quarter of total tourism industry employment. The sector represents an important source of employment for medium-skilled workers, which is especially important in rural areas where alternative employment opportunities are scarce. Developments in business and technology in recent years have resulted in an increase in the percentage of highly skilled workers in the hotel sector. In that sense, tourism can claim to be a part of Ireland's smart economy, all the more so if the essential social and service skills which are core to the industry are recognised as creating value. In addition, the sector continues to provide sustainable employment opportunities to medium-skilled workers who might not otherwise find a role elsewhere in the economy.

Over the past year, Fáilte Ireland has worked closely with the Irish Hotels Federation, SIPTU and others to review the further strengthening and development of the skills of those working in the hotel sector. The focus of these discussions was on keeping people at work in the tourism sector while providing them with the means to enhance their skills and career development opportunities. Investing in know-how and improved labour productivity is essential and complements the wider cost reduction efforts taking place in all hotels.

In recent years, Irish hotels have made strenuous efforts to offer more value to consumers. This value is evident in the range of offers across the sector. Two broad ways of improving performance are cutting costs and improving efficiency. At this stage, all costs that are under the direct control of hotel management have been addressed. However, concern continues to exist about costs imposed from outside, including non-traded services provided by local authorities such as water supply and waste management. Hoteliers express concerns about the transparency and consistency of these charges throughout the country and have requested assurance that they reflect only the economic cost of efficient service delivery. Rates are another area of concern. In the limited number of cases in which rates reviews have been undertaken, there have been reductions of 30% in the rates levied. However, at this point, the review process has not even begun in most local authorities.

Wage costs are a significant percentage of the cost of doing business in a hotel. Most hoteliers recognise that to provide a high quality service, they need to retain appropriately paid, well-trained and well-motivated staff. However, many find that the addition of wage premiums over and above the minimum wage can add significantly to the cost base of their operation. We encounter hoteliers who ask whether the joint labour committee machinery, which dates back to the 1940s or even back to 1907, as Mr. Power has pointed out, continues to serve as an appropriate means of setting wages for the sector. At a time when much of the economy is characterised by attempts to secure greater flexibility and improved value for money, these concerns about the cost of doing business remain real and immediate. The current effort to solve these issues must be continued and redoubled. Fáilte Ireland works with the hospitality sector on an ongoing basis to support performance and efficiency at the level of the individual firm. This work can include practical advice on improving business performance, with specialist mentoring in areas such as cash flow management, dealing with banks, website development, menu planning and costing and benchmarking within the sector. In recent years a great deal of support has been provided in areas such as customer service, front office and selling skills.

I mentioned at the outset that the domestic market accounts for two thirds of all hotel bed nights. It is generally recognised that this must change and that this level of dependence on the domestic market is not sustainable, especially in a context where Irish consumers will continue to be cautious into the foreseeable future. In other words there are too many eggs in the one basket. Ideally, we would like to see this situation reversed where international visitors would account for two thirds of bed nights and the home market would supply one third.

Fáilte Ireland is working to achieve this target through a mix of supports. We provide marketing programmes and supports that enable senior managers to make more informed and tactical decisions about the best channels to market for their particular hotel. We also provide a range of promotional opportunities in the international market through trade shows and the organisation of familiarisation trips to Ireland for overseas media. In these programmes, we work closely and constructively with Tourism Ireland, our sister agency. As economic conditions begin to improve in our key source markets, we are working to position Irish tourism so that it can participate fully in the export-led recovery that will bring us out of this recession.

Traditionally, most Irish hotels have been family owned and operated. This approach facilitated incremental development and organic growth in the business. In turn, this allowed a process of intergenerational asset accumulation to take place where expansion of the business took place gradually, and usually with modest levels of structural debt. Debt was generally appropriate to the scale of the business and gearing was kept within manageable limits.

In recent years, the advent of new entrants to the sector has been marked by a different business model. Four elements of this new model in particular are worthy of note. First, new hotels have been highly geared with above average debt financing which has left them financially exposed if and when business declines. In effect, a very high level of structured debt has been designed into the business from the outset. Second, many new hotels have been notable by the separation of ownership from management. Third, tax incentive schemes have meant that some hotels have been supply led rather than demand responsive. In other words, strong incentives to enter the industry may have caused some new entrants to exercise less caution than would have been normal in earlier decision making. Fourth, there has been a marked increase in international hotel brands entering the country which, ultimately, have been location-indifferent and sufficiently mobile to move out again if trading circumstances deteriorate.

I believe the movement to this new business model goes at least some way to explaining the very large expansion in the sector that I mentioned at the outset of my remarks. The current excess capacity is due to a combination of over-supply and a lack of demand. Quantifying the precise scale of this excess capacity is somewhat problematic. The IHF-Bacon report concluded that between 12,300 and 15,300 rooms need to be removed to restore sustainable equilibrium in the market. In effect, this could mean shutting between 190 and 230 hotels.

It is possible, however, that the IHF-Bacon report overstates the level of excess capacity. For example, over the period 2004 to 2007, the market was in broad equilibrium with a stock of some 54,000 rooms, occupancy rates at 60-64%, and room revenue relatively stable. In addition, the recent report of the Tourism Renewal Group estimated that by 2013 the tourism market will return at least to the level of business experienced in 2007 — just under 8 million international visitors and 8 million domestic trips. In this respect, it is important also to keep in mind that the right hotel stock for Irish tourism must be gauged against the medium-term demand outlook for the industry. If the view of the Tourism Renewal Group is accepted, then the scale of the excess capacity in the medium term may be about half that stated in the IHF-Bacon report. It is worth bearing in mind also that in regard to tourism development, not all hotels are necessarily in the tourism business. A number of hotels will focus, for example, on local service delivery — weddings, funerals, 21st birthdays and meeting facilities for local community groups. Although these services are important for the local area, hotels that cater predominantly for this type of business are unlikely to be a core driver of tourism development within the country.

I wish to offer some comments on the impact the banking crisis has had on the hotel sector. There has been considerable comment in the media on so-called zombie hotels which can undermine the viability of longer established properties attempting to trade their way through the recession. Typically, these zombie hotels are highly geared and have been part-financed with the aid of tax breaks. Some may not be commercially viable, yet their owners may believe they face a disincentive to exit the market due to the clawback of capital allowance tax breaks. In these circumstances, owners are likely to take the view that any contribution to covering fixed costs, including debt-servicing costs, is better than none and so they compete strongly on price to attract business. This can have seriously damaging consequences for other hotels in the area.

Given that such hotels are heavily debt-financed and are struggling to meet their debt repayments, one might expect that, in the normal course of events, lenders would move to recover the debt in the usual way. Up until now, however, banks have been slow to do so because of the implications for their own balance sheets and the uncertainty surrounding the intervention of NAMA. Many such banks most likely took the view that it was better to leave the hotel to continue trading, generating some cash to contribute to debt repayments, and perhaps wait long enough to take advantage of a possible recovery in property prices. Recent actions to support the banking sector have now introduced a greater clarity in the market, however, and it is likely that a recapitalised banking system will exhibit a greater readiness to tackle the zombie hotel issue.

Fáilte Ireland supported the IMF study of the hotel sector and participated in the steering group established to guide that work. I would like to offer a number of observations on the conclusions presented in the report and on the challenges that remain before us in addressing the excess capacity issue. The report suggested that the Finance Act should include a provision to "allow relevant hotels to exit the industry without disadvantaging the initial investors in terms of availing of capital allowances". However, it is not clear that the removal of the clawback of itself will be a sufficient incentive for hotel owners to exit the market as the capital allowance may not rest with the hotel owner. Moreover, it is most likely that the retrospective removal of the capital allowance clawback will create a credibility issue for future schemes that may be introduced. In addition, presumably there would be significant public sensitivity associated with such a move.

The report states it is imperative that a planned programme of closure must first identify the optimal future structure of the hotel sector in terms of location, grade, etc. We agree that such an assessment is necessary and Fáilte Ireland is available to work with others to consider this approach. The report itself, however, provides little guidance around the precise instrument that could be used to effect such a planned programme of closure. Consequently, the feasibility of such an approach remains to be tested.

Given the prevailing economic circumstances, we recognise that the case for any further Exchequer intervention in the hotel sector will need to be justified and framed in public interest terms. The case for doing something to support the hotel sector is still worth pursuing. The question remains, however, whether we are pursuing an administered solution or a market-based one. This is acknowledged in the Bacon report which appears to lean towards the latter approach where it states, "The sector cannot rely on outside intervention to address the problems that have developed, and so collectively, hotel operators must work to stabilise the industry".

I assure the committee of Fáilte Ireland's commitment to continue working with the hotel sector to address the challenges we have described today and to find appropriate solutions to them. To that end, we will work with our partners to ensure Irish tourism continues to enjoy the benefit of a hotel stock of the highest quality, which is appropriate to the needs of the industry and which is based in those locations best suited to serve the needs of our tourists and future demand levels.

I thank the Chairman again for this opportunity to meet the members of the committee.

I thank Mr. O'Donoghue for his comprehensive presentation outlining the stark situation with regard to excess supply and also for presenting some of his ideas as to how we might deal with the situation. I now ask members to address the delegation with their questions and comments.

I thank the Chairman and I thank the delegations for the presentations. Many issues were comprehensively raised by everyone such that we can only touch on them. I would appreciate a copy of Mr. Power's presentation because I did not receive one. Some new issues were raised so perhaps Mr. Power could forward it to me at some stage.

This is a very good week to hold this meeting because it has not been a good year for Irish tourism and it certainly has not been a good week. Once again we have realised how vulnerable an industry it is and how vulnerable we are as an island. We are so dependent on air travel and clear skies.

A vote has been called in the Seanad.

I am sorry to interrupt but both Senators must leave for a vote in the Seanad. I trust the participants will understand. If they are still here when the vote is over, we will be back.

People working in the industry must wonder where the next blow will come from. It seems everything that could possibly happen to us in terms of tourism is happening and has happened.

I refer to some of the points made by the delegation. I fully agree about the minimum wage issue. I read in the newspaper that it is an absolute last resort under consideration in Greece. Certainly it should not be considered here. However, I hold concerns about the joint labour committees. The idea that they may be outdated and redundant has been raised, which concerns me. Ms King referred to the deal made about time and a half and suggested this showed how flexible and responsive the joint labour committee was to changing circumstances. However, the reality is it was not responsive. It was very slow to respond in that case. Many jobs were lost while that regime was in place. Many people stopped serving on Sundays and an industry that should be a seven-day industry in many parts of Ireland is no longer so. Give that the agreed rate is now time plus a third, one must question whether this is a service industry in which the meals on Sunday are as important as the meals on Monday or whether the service one gives on a Sunday and a Monday are the same. Perhaps a new structure is required.

I will not go into the detail but I refer to my experience of a family wedding recently. Many people came from abroad. I sought a place to feed them on a Sunday in the midlands other than the hotel where the wedding was taking place. There were approximately 70 people but I could not find anywhere. I made many calls and I could not find anyone to serve a meal to such a number on a Sunday. We could have gone to McDonald's or somewhere like that but I could not get a good hotel. In fact, that was not only the case on Sunday, I had problems on the Thursday as well. This highlights the problems of a very labour-dependent industry, as the delegation will be aware, and perhaps that aspect of it needs to be examined. I fully agree that people must be desperately fearful for their jobs now and that is a problem for the whole industry.

I refer to the issue of zombie hotels and the concerns about the NAMA effect. I fully agree with what has been said. What banks have been doing is outrageous in pay-rolling bad businesses while failing to give credit and working capital to good businesses. It is a truism to say that for good businesses to survive, the bad businesses must fail, but that is the reality. This interference in the market is not allowing that to take place. It is endangering all jobs because the bad businesses will not survive anyway.

I wrote to the Competition Authority about what the banks are doing. I believe that under various headings they are breaking the law or at least being anti-competitive. The Competition Authority shared the concern but it was also of the view that, under the current laws, it could not identify a dominant player, which the legislation requires. However, it was very mindful that once these loans pass to NAMA, there would be a dominant player, namely, NAMA, and that the authority would monitor the situation very carefully. I will follow up on that matter. This has caused problems already but I hope it will not persist under the NAMA arrangement.

I refer to the issue of local authorities and changes in planning to allow a change of use of hotels. How these hotels will exit the market represents a significant problem, but exit they must. I refer to the clawback issue. I have written to Mr. Power and we take a different view on the issue but I do not believe that removing the clawback is the right thing to do. The people concerned got into the business with a tax incentive and now we are looking to give them another incentive to get out. This sticks in my craw and I do not believe it is right. We have seen the pitfalls of market intervention to try to increase supply artificially. Now we are trying to decrease supply artificially by doing the opposite. The reality is many of these investors are not insolvent and can well afford to exit the business and pay back if necessary. If they cannot or if they are insolvent, then they will not pay anything because they are insolvent. The reason they are staying in business is because they seek to get into NAMA and the banks wish to avoid dealing with the loans until they can safely offload them to the taxpayer. That is the reality and I believe the clawback argument is fallacious.

I refer to local authorities and planning. Local authorities would be very open to varying their development plans if there was any prospect of a realistic use for hotels in their areas. The problem is likely to be the Minister's position. The Minister wrote a letter of objection to my local authority when it voted three times to change its development plan. Apparently he is not keen on variations in development plans. However, the delegation will find local authorities open to the idea.

I refer to the rates problem, which I accept is a very significant issue for hotels. There are many large hotels and we are informed rate valuations are based on various criteria other than size, but primarily it is the size of the hotel. Calling on local authorities to waive 30% of rates simply is not going to happen. Local authorities are reeling as a result of the loss of development levies and they face very significant problems. I do not know if there could be a solution but it might be possible to look at some alternative method. Revaluation would take 20 years. It cannot happen overnight and I do not believe that is a solution. Perhaps it is possible somehow to relate rates to the level of occupancy of a hotel or its income rather than its size. I do not know how it could be worked out but it seems that it might be a more fruitful road to go down. It would mean that when a hotel is occupied, it would pay more, but at least it would have an income to draw on. However, it seems an impossible task for many hotels if 80% of rooms are empty and they are still obliged to pony up the same level of rates. I appear to have wandered on forever. There are many issues to which I wish to come back but I will leave it at that for now.

I thank the Deputy. She can contribute again in any case.

I thank the delegates for their very comprehensive presentations. A good deal of important detail has been presented to the committee today, which I welcome. While we may not agree on the specifics, it is very important we hear the viewpoints of the different interest groups.

I refer to the TASC report. The JLC has come up in everyone's commentary. According to Central Statistics Office figures, hospitality is the lowest paid of any sector in a comparison with other workers. Will the delegation comment on this? Hospitality workers received the lowest pay increases since 2000. I am referring to CSO figures. Clearly, there is an anomaly here that must be examined. I refer to the JLC. A recent consultant's report commissioned by Fáilte Ireland shows that the reduction of JLC pay scales to the statutory minimum wage would facilitate little price reduction. Will the delegation comment on this? Clearly, the JLC is important. The delegation is looking at me quizzically but I am quoting from the TASC report and the reference to it was from a Fáilte Ireland report. That commentary and report is important background to any pay reductions in the hotel industry.

From the figures provided by Ms King, the level of non-compliance is of considerable concern. Are there any penalties for that level of non-compliance? I understood she said 131 hotels were inspected and in the first round 22% were compliant. In the second round following inspections, 27% were compliant, leaving 73% non-compliant, which is a huge figure and something which needs to be examined. What are the consequences for the industry or employer in not being compliant? It is making it very difficult for the employees in those circumstances.

The issue of rates has been raised by almost everybody. While it is very important that rates are reduced, how does the delegation see that happening? The local authorities have to get their income from somewhere. What is the knock-on effect of the rates reduction? I ask the delegation to address that issue. The rates are having a huge impact on its costs. Where does the income from rates come back into the local authority? What services may lose out as a result of the reduction in rates? It is a factual issue which needs to be addressed.

We are all concerned about the zombie hotels, a large number of which availed of tax breaks. What intervention or recommendations were made by any organisation during 2004-08, in terms of indicating to the Minister or Department that things were not going as they should and that there would be an issue of over supply? Did anyone ask what they were going to do about the consequences of that? It raises the question of how we now deal with the issue. That is a huge problem, on which there will not be agreement. Does the delegation think bad behaviour will be rewarded by removing the clawback and allowing hotels to exit the sector without giving back the capital tax relief? What is the impact of that? What message are we sending out? That will be an important point.

How many members of the IHF have benefitted from the tax relief? Does the delegation have any figures on that? How many have not yet gone through the seven year cycle and are still benefitting from it? Does the delegation have any examples of hotels which are undercutting the market while they are still being propped up by the banks? It is an issue about which we have all been talking and it is causing huge concern. I would like concrete examples of where that is happening and the impact it is having on other hotels in the vicinity.

The Fáilte Ireland figures in table 2, which refer to room occupancy percentage by region for 2004-09, show there are very low occupancy rates in the east and midlands of, I understand, 37%, which is extremely low based on the most recent data which was available, that is, from 2009. In Dublin the figure is 61%. Are there particular locations or areas around the country where occupancy or lack thereof is a much greater problem than in other parts of the country? Is there a serious imbalance on an area by area basis?

Many points have been covered. I was attending another committee meeting and did not hear many of the presentations. I want to probe a little on the over supply of hotels. As somebody who had no knowledge of or expertise in tourism or hotels driving around the towns and cities of Ireland seven or eight years ago, I could not believe the number of hotels which were springing up. It may be connected to another question which was asked.

Did nobody shout "Stop"? The supply of hotels in the towns and cities around Ireland had nothing to do with tourism and, from my uneducated eye, had nothing to do with the hotel industry. I am not knocking the developers, but all that has been shown up as being rotten in our economy has been epitomised by what has happened in this industry over the past ten years. I would like to hear the comments of the delegation, as experts in the tourist and hotel industries, on that. It is a view which is currently held by the public.

Like everybody else, I welcome the significant players from what is our second most important industry. It is sometimes forgotten that, apart from agriculture, tourism is the most important indigenous industry we have because it impacts on every town, village and parish in the country. I am sure our colleagues will agree that, because it is not seen as being a factory or entity in its own right providing employment for 20, 30 or 40 people in the one place, there is a general view that tourism may not be that important. It is vital and this meeting is timely.

Taking the various statements presented to us, does Ms King have any comment on the TASC report? I did not know it existed but it was reported in The Irish Times yesterday that certain conclusions were drawn, in the context of how to get good value for money from restaurants. It seems to have spread its tentacles wider. Some members of the delegation may be familiar with TASC; I am not but I was familiar with much of the discourse contained in the report. One conclusion to which it came was that no attempt should be made to reduce to minimum rates. Are the rates to which the delegation referred in its presentation approximately half the industrial wage? That is the impression I got.

TASC proposed something I have proposed. As the delegation from Fáilte Ireland will know, I served as its chairman for the north west for two years before I returned to the Seanad in January. They were two of the most enjoyable years I experienced. The issue of VAT has come up time and again. The TASC report proposes that there should be a reduction in VAT which would, in turn, reduce the cost of eating out and would be helpful as a stimulus to the industry.

I am amazed at the NERA inspections. The statistics quoted are unacceptable. Not only was it established that there was a non-compliance rate of 22% but even after the inspections were increased in the past year, the compliance rate only increased to 27%. Does SIPTU have any proposals on how this problem can be addressed? It seems to be outrageous. As the report suggests, it is besmirching the good name of good hoteliers and those who are operating and performing well. From my experience in the north west, I was not aware that there was large scale non-compliance. Fáilte Ireland might have a view on that.

On training, the delegation made the point that one third of those in the sector are immigrants. I am choosing my words very carefully. Reference was made in a number of the presentations that the main attribute for visitors to Ireland has been its scenery and its people. The "fáilte" is dominant is everything we discuss regarding tourism. In the aftermath of the expansion of the European Union in 2004 there was a significant upsurge in immigrant labour into Ireland at a time when our own were not entering the hospitality industry. Many from the Baltic states, in particular, Slovakia and Russia entered the hospitality industry. They did some damage, unknowingly, to our industry. It happened because hotel managers were so anxious to get extra staff that they were no sooner off the plane from Vilnius than they were working front of house. They had no knowledge of the area they lived in or the attractions available, no capacity to direct visitors, particularly from outside Ireland, to amenities or activities locally. Is that still an issue? I have nothing against immigrant labour, it has been hugely beneficial to this country, particularly our eastern European neighbours, who have contributed greatly, but this was certainly an issue from a tourist point of view.

Everyone mentioned NAMA but I did not see any proposals to address the situation. We are in unknown territory. Should there be an audit of the total number of non-viable hotels? Such an audit, although based on overall figures of 200 hotels, might establish that it is not necessarily the case. Should those hotels be shut down because the developer cannot pay or because the banks want to get their balance sheets right? Jobs would be lost as a result so there is a difficult balance.

Should there be questions asked about the lack of action on re-rating? It has been a recurring issue in my time in Fáilte Ireland north-west, particularly because Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim, Cavan and Monaghan rely to an enormous extent on tourism for their economies. The question of rates is constant, it is crippling the hotel industry. A Government agency is tasked with re-rating and the original legislation in 2000 stated reviews would take place between five and ten years. Only two have re-rated, however, and they have concluded there is a 30% difference. It is astonishing considering all the problems in the economy that this is not seen as urgent.

We sat here in February to hear Mr. Niall Gibbons from Tourism Ireland outline an innovative marketing campaign that was geared at Britain, our largest market. Does Fáilte Ireland know if that marketing campaign has had the required effect? Is there any indication of how tourism will pan out for 2010, keeping in mind the ash cloud that may well create havoc for the tourism industry unless it is sorted?

There are so many issues contained in the three papers that it would be impossible to cover everything. This was a very important presentation.

I have heard a great deal about the Government travel tax but I remain to be convinced by anyone in the industry that it is unreasonable. All of the airlines are charging five times that in their added costs. I do not believe an extra €10 will discourage anyone from travelling, either leaving or coming into the country.

Fingal County Council is one of the two that had a rating revaluation. While some industries had a reduction in rates, others had a substantial increase. The basis on which the re-rating was calculated was the rental income for 2007, the high point of the economy. A continuation of that by any future Government would be wrong and would create enormous problems for some people. Many businesses have secured a reduction but others have borne a substantial increase. We should not use a rental income that is way off kilter from the current climate. I suggest the delegates stress that point in their recommendations to Government.

Under-charging by NAMA hotels was mentioned. It was suggested that such hotels are even giving beds away for nothing. Is that happening? What can we do for the other competing hotels? What do the delegates suggest to deal with NAMA? I heard Ms Ethel Buckley was debating with someone in the tourism industry on the radio this morning. A fair point was made about the fair hotels deal and it would be worthwhile to pursue it. If both parties could buy into it, it would be good for the business.

As Senator Mooney said, those who have not been properly trained are doing damage to the Irish brand. Visitors will say it is not the same as when they were here a decade ago. We must get back to people coming to Ireland receiving the Irish welcome. When they go into a hotel, bar or restaurant they should get that friendly welcome so they will want to come back. With the crisis due to the volcanic ash it is probable the numbers of visitors will decline. Those who do come must be given a reason to come back.

What are people in the hotel business doing to attract Irish tourists? Clearly there is a greater market share to get this year because people may not want to travel.

I listened to what was said about the oversupply and lack of demand for hotels. The Bacon report states that we shut down between 190 and 230 hotels. The report of the tourism renewal group was also mentioned, which states that by 2013, with 8 million international and 8 million domestic trips, the scale of excess would be halved. How much work is being done on alternative usage of such hotels? Possibilities for language schools, nursing homes and student accommodation were mentioned. How much work has been done on that? I shudder at the thought of demolishing any of these buildings, the same as I shudder at the thought of demolishing some of our housing estates, as some people have suggested.

Certainly it is necessary to establish a credit flow to hotels. The British enterprise guarantee scheme is a good model and the committee would support such a measure.

I am pleased we had a good debate on the JLC employment regulation order and the minimum wage. I am pleased to see there was no inference of any interference with the minimum wage. I served as a former Minister with responsibility for labour for some time, and I would be worried by any attempt at a race to the bottom. There are issues around the JLCs, but I hope we can work them out through partnership as we have before.

Senator Mooney referred to Tourism Ireland's appearance before the committee. We had a good debate with it on marketing and what is envisaged for the future. The importance of major city-based events for the hotel industry has been mentioned. Many people, including me, appreciated the effect the Volvo Ocean Race had on Galway, and the positive impact it had on the hotel industry there. I ask the delegates to evaluate, from their own research and marketing, the possible impact of events — particularly in music and the arts, and sporting events — that will take place during the next 12 months or so. The new national convention centre will be a major draw for foreign tourists.

There is a tremendous feeling among Irish people with regard to supporting home industry in the hotel sector. How strong a campaign is being conducted to attract the domestic market? I appreciate the point about the need to build up the number of overseas visitors, but there is currently a strong mood of solidarity here in supporting domestic tourism. It needs leadership, which we will do our best to give. I have no doubt the delegates are also doing that. What efforts are being made to support the domestic market and ensure that the hotel industry survives and grows?

I thank the Chairman for allowing me in. What percentage of hotels owned in Ireland does Mr. Power believe are insured by Quinn Insurance Limited? I chaired the insurance inquiry, and the Irish Hotels Federation was helpful in conducting research. As the delegates will know, there was a reduction of 300% and 200% in many cases.

I join Senator Mooney, Deputy Kennedy and the Chairman in asking about the hold-up in re-rating hotels. It is unsustainable. The second largest expenditure for hotels, after wages, used to be insurance costs. Now it is rates and water charges. The hotel industry must be given time. We are all playing for time — it is our hope. We thought this year would be better than last year, but as Senator Mooney said, there are unfortunate difficulties with air travel at present. It is a nightmare.

Any hotel worth its salt employs 40 people, and possibly up to 140 people. It is a little industry in itself. There are 900 of those around the country. Regarding the Irish Hotels Federation's proposal on employment assistance, I have a vested interest, as I speak for my family. When the employment grant was given, it was the first time we ever got money to assist us in employing people. Anyone who employed approximately 40 people got €10,000 — or whatever it was at the time — paid over each quarter. That is a huge amount of assistance. It is crucial that the committee, under the Chairman's stewardship, fights hard for that assistance to continue next year. It is unbelievable that many colleagues, although they were all notified about the scheme two or three times by letter, did not avail themselves of it until recently, or in some cases were unaware of it.

In the city of Dublin — the Chairman's own constituency — the D4 under-charging is taking place. It is outrageous that a builder and a bank would get involved and decimate the industry of high quality and high product in our capital city. I will say no more about it, but if it was happening in any other industry there would be an outcry. Under-charging at €20 is an insult, and it is not sustainable. Family businesses are the backbone of the industry. People have given everything to move the industry from where it was 40 or 50 years ago, when my predecessor Joe Groome was chairman of Bord Fáilte. Along with the late P. V. Doyle, he helped to take the industry to where it is today. A huge amount of work was done, and risks were taken, during the past 50 years. We should not allow that to be decimated by one bank and one individual as is currently happening.

I apologise on behalf of Deputy Olivia Mitchell and Deputy John O'Mahony — they have to go to other meetings. I assure the delegates that the committee is here to give a voice to organisations such as theirs. The delegates have given their presentations in a public forum and we will convey that information to various Ministers in every way possible.

I ask the delegates to deal with any areas they wish to discuss.

Mr. John Power

I will comment on what Senator Cassidy said, which answered Deputy O'Mahony's question on whether examples could be given. A situation in which hotels are run not for the purpose of hotel keeping, but to protect a property, undermines family businesses in which people have put everything they have on the line. It fundamentally threatens everyone and is a real threat to employment. The unfortunate people who work in those hotels may lose their jobs. There are job losses in other businesses that close, but the chances are that jobs can be protected and there is a possibility of transfer. In the hotel sector, employees may be transferred from one hotel to another, but there will not be an industry if the practice we have discussed is allowed to continue. In such situations, an entire business is driven to insolvency. That issue is a priority for us.

Senator Mooney mentioned the level of non-compliance revealed by the NERA inspections. I have read a NERA report and on first reading, it looks very bad. However, it appears that non-compliance in areas such as non-payment of Sunday premiums or overtime is limited to a certain number of cases. By and large, the report covers the add-on areas in which businesses are technically non-compliant. Should some of the items be removed? Should we have national legislation that applies to everybody in the country rather than individual sectors?

I will address some of those issues. On the question of why there is no enforcement, a number of summonses have been issued, but a constitutional challenge to the JLC system is being launched. The courts have adjourned the hearings on those summonses pending the outcome of those challenges.

Regarding the staff who came to this country from eastern Europe, there was enormous growth at that time and a need for those staff. Although I am the first to admit there was bad management, in the sense that some staff had not been indoctrinated in Irish culture up front, the vast majority of those staff contributed enormously to the Irish hotel sector and should be respected in the same way as Irish staff. We strongly advise our members to do that. The staff deserve it — we have seen a great work ethic among the vast majority of them. I accept that some people who visited Ireland were disappointed when they did not get an Irish person welcoming them at the counter, but that is the reality in the hospitality sector.

I am sorry to interrupt Mr. Power, but for the record, I was not making a distinction between nationalities. I was talking about the training required. If an Irish person goes to America to work in the hospitality industry, he or she acclimatises to that culture. In many instances in tourism areas throughout the country, those who came in were not acclimatised to the Irish culture. I was not making a distinction between having an Irish person and an Estonian person at the desk. I was saying that if the Estonian was put at the desk he or she should be as competent as the Irish person in selling the Irish brand, otherwise one could be misinterpreted.

I agree with Senator Mooney. It is important that these issues are cleared up. From my experience, the presence of non-Irish workers in the sector has been a very positive development. Obviously the numbers were huge but I presume they have gone down. From listening to them, many have acquired a half-Irish accent and have integrated well in various towns, villages and cities throughout the country. It is another learning curve for Ireland which is a very different Ireland from what it was ten years ago and it is a positive experience. The message is that training is needed for workers in this sector across the board.

Mr. John Power

We have to put our hands up and say a number of people did not deliver. It was a management issue to have those people who were not properly trained out on the front line. Deputy O'Mahony raised the issue of shouting "stop" for the ongoing unbridled development. While I do not justify it, a fundamental mistake was made at Government level by the Minister for Finance at the time in allowing a year for people to make their planning applications and if granted within that period, the capital allowances would apply. Originally, the capital allowances were cut out followed by a phasing out period and then a year was allowed. In addition, local authorities insisted that shopping centre developments and apartment developments had a hotel element built into them. That drove people to making those decisions. The real issue was the tax shelter.

I have been around long enough to remember that when the tax reliefs of 1967 or 1968 were introduced there were 17,000 hotel rooms in Ireland, 3,500 with bathroom en suite. They were introduced by the Government of which the late Seán Lemass was a member to drive the development of hotels with bathrooms en suite. The Ryan group, the Doyle group and the Jurys Inn group were set up on the back of those well thought-out focused tax allowances. There were other tax reliefs which were phased out in the 1990s so that one was left with hotels, nursing homes and car parks as the only remaining ones. Then there was a mad drive towards hotels in the expectation that this boom would continue forever. That did not happen. We are where we are now.

I am watching the clock as we are close enough to the Order of Business. Perhaps I will invite Mr. Redmond O'Donoghue and Ms Patricia King to cover one or two key points and then Senator Jerry Buttimer who will have to go to the Seanad. I am concerned that we may have to bring down the shutters on this which I do not want to happen without everybody getting a chance to deal with some key points. I invite Ms King to deal with the major issues to be followed by Mr. O'Donoghue.

Ms Patricia King

I will deal with the issues relating to the joint labour committees, compliance and so on. In response to Deputies Mitchell and Upton and Senator Mooney, the statutory entitlement of everyone in the State is to the minimum rate, that is, €8.65 per hour or €337 per week. What does the JLC do? First, it does a little more than set a new rate, it deals with other matters of employment that are important. A trained cook in a hotel would earn €17 more per week than a person on the minimum wage. There are very few people who would walk into an hotel and expect to get a meal properly cooked and acknowledge that the trained cook earned €17 more than if he or she was getting the statutory minimum rate. There is no area more scrutinised in the State, other than perhaps colleagues and members of the committee in terms of their rates of pay, than this group in boom time and in recession time. That is driven by people who believe they will draw the profit out on the backs of those and push them down to the minimum rate.

Any person who has ever worked in an hotel will know it is very labour intensive. One works every hour one is there. There is little or no slack time in the hotel industry. A barman in an hotel earns €362 per week at the top level and a person starting off earns €354. Any person who has been in an hotel for any period of time will know there is a possibility that someone will drink until 3 a.m. or 4 a.m. That barman many have been on duty all day. What does the JLC do? The JLC provides that he or she gets €362 as the weekly rate but it specifies when the overtime kicks in and how much they earn. That is right. This comes back to the National Employment Rights Authority on which I sit on a voluntary basis on its advisory board. At its meeting every month I hear about the inspections and so on. There is a huge amount of bad behaviour in there. Youngsters and trained bar people work there and employers believe they should work whatever hours are required without payment for overtime and be paid merely the basic rate. The JLC or the employment regulation order says that should not be the case and that after eight hours the overtime kicks in. There is no other industry or place of employment that does not have a similar provision. The JLC also ensures there are anti-bullying and disciplinary procedures in place. We are talking about people on the lowest peg of the ladder in terms of rates of pay.

Sorry to interrupt, there is a vote in the Seanad. Senator Jerry Buttimer must be excused again.

I apologise to the delegation. I had one question for Mr. O'Donoghue and Mr. Quinn. There was no mention by them of the role of their training centres which are doing great work in upskilling and retraining people. There appears to be a downgrading of the training centres. There was a monumental error in Government policy in building too many hotels. It is clear from the presentations that the approach is to cut costs and blame the worker who admittedly did well during the boom, but did not make the profits which the developers made. We must resist the temptation to blame the worker in the hotels who are, according to all of us, the person of the céad míle fáilte.

Perhaps we can return to the position of the worker in the hotel.

Ms Patricia King

That is an explanation of what the employment regulation order does. It affords the worker very little more in round terms than the minimum wage. What the employer gets is a skilled person providing the service for which the employer pays very little extra.

In terms of the NERA inspections, I disagree with Mr. Power when he minimised its work in this area. NERA has gone out and inspected and has spent the whole of 2009 honing in on the hotels and come back with solid information that 73% of the industry is non-compliant. The least Ireland can do for a worker in that labour intensive industry is ensure he or she gets the minimum entitlements. All of those employers are breaking the law because the employment regulation order is set in statute. That can be summarised by the fact that up to €2 million was paid back through NERA's work.

Deputy Upton asked what was the penalty. Unfortunately, the penalty is quite low for offending employers. The Government is bringing forward the compliance Bill but I understand it is the source of a great deal of anxiety for many people, not least because of the way it was constructed, as Mr. Power said. That compliance Bill will put what we would regard as a decent penalty on offending employers in that regard. That will be one of the features of the compliance Bill.

The other point concerned training and development. We would not disagree with any of the points made about the value of up-skilling, training and developing staff and employees in this sector. That is the reason we are joining employer groups in trying to increase the profile and the density of the training and development across the entire sector.

In terms of NAMA's human effect, some key hotels including one in this city, which I will not name as this is a public forum and it might be wrong to do so, will now go into NAMA, so to speak and we have groups of employees — 70, 80, 120 — all of whom are waiting to know what their future holds. A game of ping-pong is being played by the developer who owns the hotel, NAMA and the banks and those poor people are in that hotel waiting to know what their future holds.

A hotel not too far from the Chairman's constituency in the south side of Dublin is the Montrose Hotel. I will name it because it is public knowledge. That was a good hotel. Somebody mentioned P.V. Doyle. The reason there is no employment regulation order, ERO, in Dublin is because people like P.V. Doyle paid well above the rate and it was not needed. That hotel has gone west, so to speak. Those employees had good terms and conditions, pensions and so on. Mr. Gallagher is dealing with it from our point of view. All those employees are being lined up like turkeys at Christmas. Their statutory entitlements are gone. The hotel is going into NAMA, so to speak.

In south Dublin as we speak they are talking about more retail units because the banks have decided that might be a better way to get a few more euro in profit which they can pump back into the business. Nobody cares about the 70 or 80 people in the Montrose Hotel who will lose their jobs. That is the reality of NAMA, and members can multiply that figure. Whether the employees are unionised or non-unionised does not make any difference to those people because the view of NAMA and the banks is that this is about maximising the money take. It is not about providing any protection for the people losing their livelihood. Some of those people have been 30 years in employment in the job to which I referred. That is a sore rendition of what is happening to those people and the point we are at in regard to this issue. I felt it was worth highlighting the JLC in human terms.

I will call Mr. O'Donoghue and we may have to conclude after that because we are up against the clock. I appreciate the comprehensive submissions made by all the representatives.

Mr. Redmond O’Donoghue

If it is in order, Chairman, I will focus on the excess capacity which currently is a substantive issue. It was raised by the Chairman. To put the issue into context, because somebody asked how it happened and if anyone shouted "stop". In 2002 — I hasten to add I was not there; I was fighting other barracuda in another industry in this country — a Government review foresaw 10 million visitors by 2012, which did not seem outrageous at the time because it required the business to double between 2002 and 2012. It had doubled in the previous ten years and therefore the figure did not appear to be too outrageous. That is probably what led to what took place in terms of the excess. I am not trying to justify it. I am not saying it is right. Clearly, the world changed enormously.

In terms of the solution, however it was caused, whoever is to blame or whoever read the tea leaves wrongly, we are where we are. We believe that, ultimately, the market will provide the solution but we cannot tell the committee how long "ultimately" will be because it could be quite a period of time if the excess capacity is as outlined in the Bacon-Irish Hotels Federation report. We do not believe it is quite as much as indicated in that report but it is a serious number.

We are strong in our belief that, ultimately, the market should be allowed to resolve the position. What is happening, as we heard from Mr. Power and in the discussions today, is that artificial blockages are creeping into the system. In the past if a hotel owner ran out of cash, sooner or later a bank would move on that. What is happening now is that such a hotel has either gone into NAMA or into a bank, which have much deeper pockets than the owner and therefore it does not go out of business. Ultimately, the market will take care of that because people cannot prop up these businesses forever.

When I say the market will take care of it I do not mean that it is necessarily all about closures because the other side is demand creation. We must focus on demand creation. In terms of eliminating the supply side or increasing the demand side, I am much more on the side of increasing the demand side. That brings into sharp focus the need for resources. We can do a great deal with a little but we must have the little to prime the pump.

The Volvo Ocean Race in Galway last year was mentioned. For an investment by the State of €8 million, according to Deloitte €56 million in economic activity was generated in Ireland. That was a stern measure. It was not a fellow from Mayo buying a pint in Galway. It was a very stern measure. I went into it in great detail. It was additive. Proper investment in marketing through Tourism Ireland and Fáilte Ireland can and will yield results.

I said earlier, and Mr. Power would agree, that we would prefer the balance between the home market and the overseas market to be different than it is now. That will take some time to achieve. To get us through the hiatus in the short term we must recognise the way the world is now. We have to make the best of what we have, and probably for the next two or three years.

A question was asked about what we are doing about the home market. In the short term the home market will be part of the solution, and members will be happy to learn that we are having our biggest ever investment in the home market. We are investing €4 million in the home market alone this year, with an advertising campaign. Members have probably seen the television commercials, which are super. That plays into what Ireland is about. People do not go on holiday in Ireland to get the sun. We have seen that for two summers in a row. They holiday here for the activities. They have places they want to go to and things to do, and the campaign focuses clearly on that.

In terms of value for money, there are outstanding value for money deals at the moment. It is impacting on margins but one only has to read the back of the newspaper to see mouth-watering deals. I have a Discover Ireland brochure with me which has hundreds of hotels offering mouth-watering deals.

In last December's budget the Government, in its wisdom, gave Fáilte Ireland a three fold increase in its capital budget. That was very welcome in a slash and burn budget, not only to get the money but it means that official Ireland has recognised that tourism is part of the solution. We are investing that money carefully in tourism infrastructure, events, festivals, walks and all the areas in which members would expect us to be involved.

We are stimulating the overseas market through our various sub-markets such as golf. We have a rebranded golf product. We have golf deals similar to the hotel deals. We have seen the rebirth of the Irish Open golf event, which is now one of the biggest in Europe. In late July in Killarney we will have Rory McIlroy, the new superstar since last Sunday, in attendance. The Solheim Cup, which is the women's Ryder Cup, is coming to Ireland in 2011. The Tall Ships Race will come to Waterford in 2011. It is hoped the Volvo Ocean Race will return to Galway in 2012. The national convention centre is about to open for conferences, business and cultural tourism. There is a menu of activities and if we had more time I would like to show members what we are doing because it is very exciting. I said the market will provide but it is a combination of those aspects, in addition to some people going out of business. Perhaps alternative use is what the market will provide. If there is a demand for old people's homes or hospitals or student accommodation, the market will provide. If not, then that is not part of the solution.

I thank Mr. O'Donoghue for ending on a positive note. I appreciate the work that is being done. I thank Ms King, Mr. Gallagher, Mr. Power, Mr. O'Donoghue, Mr. Quinn, Mr. Pender, Ms Buckley, Ms Sherlock and Mr. Henry for contributing. I am glad we ended on a positive note, and you are tapping into a community here that will support that drive. I wish you well.

The joint committee adjourned at 4.51 p.m. until 2 p.m. on Wednesday, 19 May 2010.
Top
Share